# General Topics > Vivarium, Terrarium & Enclosure Discussion >  1000+ questions :)

## Lija

All right, all right... Here we go.  :Smile:  but Paul, it is so not going to help you with your addiction lol

1. Im  about to order a tank for my 6 peacock frogs and i have a stand that would accommodate 32x14 footprint and im thinking to do 24" height -  go for it or bigger? I can get a price of wood to put on top of a stand for bigger footprint if needed., not too much bigger though to keep it stable, 14" depth kinda seems too narrow. It is going to be a custom tank, so i can do whatever specification i can think of. And sliding doors, cos i hate top opening, what height of a glass should i do in front  up to sliding doors, 7" for false bottom and stuff is ok?
 i wanna do water pond and water feature, they seem to love siting in their water and pooping in there too.
   I can get 36x18x24 tank with sliding doors - is it better, or go custom? Doesn't matter for me, but the one i can get now, i can also start now lol you know how it goes lol or i need to wait for a week until custom is done, but i will have new and exactly how i need. 
 Pls advise  :Smile: 

 2. I got a aquascape 90gph pond pump with adjustable flow - ok? Since they are going to poop in their water should i return that pump and get a a filter? And if so which one?

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## bill

I would say get as big as you can fit and afford. As far as door height on a custom, the tank builder would probably be better to advise on door size and such since they will have to build in ventilation. Make sure they drill for a misting system if you plan on using one. 

Depending on the size tank, and size of water feature, the pump you have will probably be adequate, but, why not have a bulkhead installed in the bottom portion and use a sump? You can even grow aquatic plants in the sump to increase bio filtration and improve water quality. Kind of like a reef tank refugium. You can have a water return bulkhead fitted as well. 

I could go on and on, but you really need to decide on the tank and layout first. I think I gave you enough to think about to start off with.  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

No, i dont exactly wanna use sump, im not that advanced.... Yet  :Smile:  and idea of having an extra tank for that is giving me a headache.
in that case do i have options of filter? I kinda like my pump and that i can adjust flow. Can i do a pump for water feature and some kinda internal filter hidden under false bottom for filtration? I do need filtration do i?

 Misting system, you mean actual misting system ( mistking) or fogger? My mistking goes on max already, dont want to buy another one, fogger i can do, but do i need to?

 Ultimately i would love not to drill glass and keep it as is.

 Tank builder is the last person to ask for advise  :Smile:   he will build whatever i need, but other then that... Im going to have screen top in any case ( partially covered im assuming), close to no ventilation from the front, crack between sliding doors, and that is it.

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## bill

Absolutely you can use just the pump. Water will be filtered as it runs through the substrate. You can add an additional submersible filter, just remember to build an access for it for maintenance. The same also goes for the pump. 

You don't really need a misting system or fogger. You can do like I do, hand mist every day. 

If you are going to do a 36Wx18Dx24H, then I would say have the doors made to be no smaller than 16". That gives you 6" at the bottom for water supply, 16" of doors and an extra 2" to play with. 

And you know you want a sump!! Lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Michael

Just a thought, but with a sump, you could do filtration and heating in the sump tank and you would not need to place any equipment under your false bottom.. right?

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## bill

That is correct Michael. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Michael

That would be awful handy, so long as the bottom of the tank is not tempered glass. =)

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## bill

You could still drill low on the side for a sump. There are a lot of advantages to a sump, but they can be a pita to set up. It's getting that right overflow/return rates set right. That's the pain. But the advantages outweigh that. You can heat the sump instead of the tank. Water changes are much easier, removing excess water is easier. If you plant your sump with live plants, you increase your biological filter to a ridiculous size, but mostly, you don't have to worry about accessing any mechanical parts inside the tank, leaving you a lot more room for the frogs. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

> And you know you want a sump


 hell yeah lol you know me well  :Smile:  but one step at a time! From plain nice tanks to tree frogs to sump and then what? Reef tanks? Would need to buy a new house, one for us, another for the hobby lol

 Will go look at that tank i was talking about tomorrow, if not good, then will order.

 14" deep -too small to play around, right?

 What do you mean by use substrate as a filter? How? Im not exactly sure how im going to do it yet, my understanding: water output - run down to the pond - back to the pump that is located in the opposite side of tank - tube - back to square one.  Wrong?


 I got a gift from my other half yesterday - waterfall black foam  :Smile:   like great stuff but black, he was sooo proud of himself, that thing was like 20$ bit much i must say, but oh well, wont refuse lol

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## Lija

> You could still drill low on the side for a sump. There are a lot of advantages to a sump, but they can be a pita to set up. It's getting that right overflow/return rates set right. That's the pain. But the advantages outweigh that. You can heat the sump instead of the tank. Water changes are much easier, removing excess water is easier. If you plant your sump with live plants, you increase your biological filter to a ridiculous size, but mostly, you don't have to worry about accessing any mechanical parts inside the tank, leaving you a lot more room for the frogs. 
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


 what is a sump? I mean i know in theory, it is a tank that is getting water pumped in and out, usually placed under the main tank and for advanced fish tank people, that wasnt ever applied to me  :Smile: 
 Is it ultimately fish tank without fish?  

 You can laugh now  :Smile:

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## Michael

> You could still drill low on the side for a sump. There are a lot of advantages to a sump, but they can be a pita to set up. It's getting that right overflow/return rates set right. That's the pain. But the advantages outweigh that. You can heat the sump instead of the tank. Water changes are much easier, removing excess water is easier. If you plant your sump with live plants, you increase your biological filter to a ridiculous size, but mostly, you don't have to worry about accessing any mechanical parts inside the tank, leaving you a lot more room for the frogs. 
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


I've looked in to it, it does seem to have a lot of advantages, you can basically double your water volume with it. I always think about the work involved and I picture a flooded house.

You are talking to a guy who started his canister once and did not lock the clamps down.... =)

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## bill

> hell yeah lol you know me well  but one step at a time! From plain nice tanks to tree frogs to sump and then what? Reef tanks? Would need to buy a new house, one for us, another for the hobby lol
> 
>  Will go look at that tank i was talking about tomorrow, if not good, then will order.
> 
>  14" deep -too small to play around, right?
> 
>  What do you mean by use substrate as a filter? How? Im not exactly sure how im going to do it yet, my understanding: water output - run down to the pond - back to the pump that is located in the opposite side of tank - tube - back to square one.  Wrong?
> 
> 
>  I got a gift from my other half yesterday - waterfall black foam   like great stuff but black, he was sooo proud of himself, that thing was like 20$ bit much i must say, but oh well, wont refuse lol


don't you dare become a stinking reefer!! LOL

14" is kind of tough to create a real sense of depth, but it can be done. 

ok, the substrate as a filter thing: the pump pushes the water to a starting point, the water runs through a channel to a pond. if you build the substrate up around the pond, the water needs to pass through the substrate to circulate back to the pump, hence being filtered, just like a natural water table. simple really  :Smile: 

that pond foam is neat, but highly over priced in my opinion. but cool that the other half bought you a gift for the new tank!!!

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## bill

> what is a sump? I mean i know in theory, it is a tank that is getting water pumped in and out, usually placed under the main tank and for advanced fish tank people, that wasnt ever applied to me 
>  Is it ultimately fish tank without fish?  
> 
>  You can laugh now


no laughing. it's kind of an abstract concept really. but think of a sump this way; it's a much larger, open concept of a canister filter. that's kind of the bare bones of it. 
water leaves the tank, enters the sump (the canister), and is filtered by numerous ways. you can use foam blocks, live plants, offset eggcrate panels that you grow algae on, filter floss, bio balls, ect. then you pump it back to the tank. it increases water volume, making it easier to stabilize water chemistry. 

and yes, i guess you could romanticize it by calling it a fishless fish tank. but then again, i keep a 30g planted tank just for growing plants. no fish. so, i guess then there's the question of when is a fishless fishtank a sump lol

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## bill

> I've looked in to it, it does seem to have a lot of advantages, you can basically double your water volume with it. I always think about the work involved and I picture a flooded house.
> 
> You are talking to a guy who started his canister once and did not lock the clamps down.... =)


michael, you just have to build it properly. special overflows used in aquatic tanks or limited intakes on vivs. imagin a 4" water level. you drill your hole at say, the 2" level. put a 90 degree fitting out of the bulkhead, then a screened pipe that stops at roughly 4". as long as the water level is above the pipe, water flows in, if the water drops below the pipe, no flow, no flood.

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## Lija

Bill, 
 can you please explain for challenged people what you just wrote lol like 2+2 type of thing lol like how can you build substrate around pond that would work like a filter. I do understand pump to the starting point part though and running down to the pond thing too, but then it should go back to the pump under false bottom. So where the heck is a substrate? I feel so dumb right now lol

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## bill

> Bill, 
>  can you please explain for challenged people what you just wrote lol like 2+2 type of thing lol like how can you build substrate around pond that would work like a filter. I do understand pump to the starting point part though and running down to the pond thing too, but then it should go back to the pump under false bottom. So where the heck is a substrate? I feel so dumb right now lol


give me a few minutes, i want to take a few pics of the steam punk tank and you will see exactly what i am talking about.  :Smile:

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## Lynn

:Big Grin:  This started out ......... very entertaining.
Now, I'm anxious and nervous for Lija- this is a lot of_ pressure_. 
Now I have Queen lyrics banging around in my head.

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## bill

Haha Lynn! She'll get it, she's a smart cookie! Smarter than I. If I can understand it, she definitely will!! 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

Ok, here's my pond:


Notice, there is nothing in there but substrate. Here it is from the front, sort of a "behind the scenes view":


The white stripe on the left is my eggcrate. The water passes through the substrate, to the pump, which is on the left of the eggcrate, under the false bottom. As the water is drawn through the substrate, to the left, it goes through all that substrate, essentially filtering it. Make a bit more sense now? There are no open spots for water for just flow under the substrate freely. I force it all through the substrate as an extra bio filter.  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Yeah right, no pressure lol i knew you gonna have fun. Bill as far as smart cookie goes i m still trying to get what the heck you are talking about above lol.  Gimme operate on smbody instead, im sure it is easier  :Smile: 

oh i know! i have an awesome plum wine in a fridge, that can totally help understand!

And by the way im not even at  question n10 yet lol and i havent even started actually making anything.

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## Lija

Ok people, after consuming what is in the pic (highly recommend for those who can drink legally, can i post pic like that on a forum? pls delete it if not). Anyhow - why there is a bacterial film on the surface of the pond? And i kinda think the substrate is on a bottom of the pond! How im doing so far? What is that substrate? And how the water is getting in that pond? And will faster moving water mess the substrate up?


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## Michael

> michael, you just have to build it properly. special overflows used in aquatic tanks or limited intakes on vivs. imagin a 4" water level. you drill your hole at say, the 2" level. put a 90 degree fitting out of the bulkhead, then a screened pipe that stops at roughly 4". as long as the water level is above the pipe, water flows in, if the water drops below the pipe, no flow, no flood.


Right the overflow would prevent it from flooding. My 40B was actually a saltwater tank once, so it is drilled on the bottom, perhaps one day I will get adventurous and do a sump, I would like to.

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## bill

My pond has biofilm on it because the circulation is extremely slow. And yes, the substrate is on the bottom of the pond, but it is also packed up around the sides. There is a very small area I have open so I can keep the slow circulation up. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

And the substrate is fluval shrimp stratum. It's like a processed soil. And it's little spheres, so it can't compact and always stays aerated. It also has decent flow characteristics. 

Oh, whatever works. I would have grabbed the tequila myself lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Never let a woman go shopping unsupervised  :Smile: 

See pics. I got everything that they had for terrarium plans ( one of each) + some more and kinda thinking of being back next week, cos they said they'll have more lol i have 3 anubias petite in a mail too - will it grow in that shrimp thing? I also got 3 more bottles ( they are small  :Wink: ) of that awesome wine, would have gotten some tequila for you guys, but cross border shipping is complicated. 
 I also ordered terrarium 34x16x24 with 6,5" glass below the sliding doors, will need to wait for a week  :Frown:  im gonna die! They are gonna reinforce the bottom and put thick glass there so i can use my stand, but i didnt want to push it too far for bigger dimensions. The top of the stand is 33x14.

It seems i still need to get more foam, plumbing, egg crate, pvc pipe, that shrimp thing, the whole list of whatever Bill is using for substrate, more plants too - right? Some kinda wood (will go look around). 
 Guys how to make a substrate with less ingredients? 

 I still have absolutely no idea on the design - is it normal? Well kinda have an idea, but dont see it yet. 

 How im doing so far? 


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## Lija

More shopping  :Smile:  please feel free to comment, especially if i went overboard or got smth i shouldnt. Moss, charcoal, etc - i found recipe on abg mix, sounded easier then mix whatever Bill is using  :Smile:  hoops in the pics are my other summer project that im not planning on using in a terrarium, just so you know  :Smile: 
 Question on lights though - thumbs up or that thing should go back to the store? Same q for everything else.  :Wink: 


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## Michael

My plants came today and I have no real idea on what to do with them either.

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## bill

Sounds like you are headed on your way Lija! The light will work just fine. And don't worry about the design. It will come to you. 

I was going to suggest you just use ABG mix. Especially since this is your first build  :Smile:  

I got a kick out of "that shrimp stuff" lol   That is my favorite aquatic substrate. If it wasn't so darned expensive, I would use it in my bigger aquatic tanks. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Paul

Ohh. Man a build thread! Sounds like you are getting a lot of great advice! Can't wait to see how this progresses!


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## Lija

Thanks guys!
so the progress so far - shopping, shopping and more shopping lol  but then what else is there to do while waiting for tank to be made :Smile: 

 advise needed on abg mix. Found this recipe on the other forum

1 part milled peat


1 part milled sphagnum moss


1 part fine charcoal (We usually at least double this)


2 parts fine tree fern fiber


2 parts fine orchid bark


the problem here that i cant find tree fern fiber anywhere that would ship to Canada, can i substitute it with coco fiber? Or anything else?


 Oh and after all the reading ive done i want to completely redo my nasutas tank.

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## Paul

LoL Lija it's a vicious circle  :Smile: 

I have seen people replace the tree fern fiber with coco fiber. I think NeHerp has done that with the mix they sale.


I am back with PC access so I have some catching up to do so I can participate better  :Smile:

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## Lija

Paul im starting to understand why dart frog people dont have just one tank. Ever! lol you have plants, you need to prune them, you have leftovers... What do with them? ... Thats right, new tank that should be better then first one. But after you look at your first one and hate it. And cant believe you can do such an ugly tank... So you have to redo it, right? You just have no choice because it is so aweful... By the time you redo it you have leftovers of plants again..... Hey, this is fun!!! 


 More qs. I like to look for reasoning behind things. What does tree fern do in a mix?  Same as bark, filler?

 Another question - it seems pretty inert mix, how plants are getting nutrition? Given no frogs in a tank.

 And another one  :Smile:  i have tropical isopods and springtail in my nasuta tank, should i take some soil with them and culture for some time to have smth to seed into a new tank?

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## Paul

Oh yeah lol, that is the biggest thing for me. When I finish with a new tank and then look at my others I see all sorts of things I wished I had done differently... So I start building a replacement for one of them and then move everyone into the new home, but wait.. now I have an empty tank and this other tank could be SO much better. Rinse and repeat lol. I currently have 2 empty tanks. a 18x18x24 Exo Terra, and a 40B Aquarium. I am currently planning out the 40B while I clean out the 18x18x24 so naturally I am wondering what I will do with it next lol.

I am actually happy with 2 of my 3 tanks right now. Once the new Vent tank is done I am hoping I love it as well so I can move onto building an entirely new tank for some new (yet unselected frogs) lol.

Now to your questions.

1. Not so much filler (with the bark as well) as it prevents compaction of the soil. Plants and Microfauna want airy soil. If it compacts down once wet it will choke out the roots

2. The peat moss provides the nutrients for the plants. You could replace the Peat moss with coconut fiber and achieve the same thing.

3. I wouldn't take from one tank to supply another if you can avoid it. You would be best server ordering a new culture and setting it up in a breeding bin. In about 30 days you will have more springs than you know what to do with. I actually ended up breaking my one spring culture up into 3 cultures after it was up and running for a few months. Now I restock my tanks from one culture and use the other 2 to restock the first one  :Smile: . Also look into Isopods. They are a great additions to tanks as well and very easy to culture. Though they are best if you buy them and setup the breeding bin for them and then forget about them (except for misting and feeding) for 2 or 3 months to really let the culture take off before you pull from them.

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## Lija

Got it thanks!

 Confused though on n2, you said above i can substitute tree fern with coconut fibre. I have peat moss, that is tree fern apparently is a problem around where i live and nobody from US can ship it here, because tree fern products require CITES permit. That is a stupidest thing i've heard actually, i understand same for live protected species, but that ;(

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## Lynn

Lija,
Just think !
This is only the 1st one   :Big Grin: 

You may need to move to Northern California, plus the wine is really good there ! 

 :Butterfly:

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## Lynn

> Got it thanks!
> 
>  Confused though on n2, you said above i can substitute tree fern with coconut fibre. I have peat moss, that is tree fern apparently is a problem around where i live and nobody from US can ship it here, because tree fern products require CITES permit. That is a stupidest thing i've heard actually, i understand same for live protected species, but that ;(


 
Can you purchase ready - mix ABG ?
It will have _some_ tree fern fiber in it- don't know if a little is allowed - that way - where you are.
It might be a way to get an _allowed amount_ in. 

ABG, Atlanta Botanical Gardens Mix | Reptile Substrate | Josh's Frogs

You could purchase - say a 10x10" pc of cocoa fiber background and pull it apart. 
The 'strands' don't break.
I've used this many times this way )  to push into small openings between background and glass. 
It's pretty easy to pull apart and does not break down.

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## bill

I like Lynn's solution. Buy premixed ABG. I never recommend using what I use because it's a bit complicated lol. 


You can break up tree fern panels, like Lynn suggested, or skip it altogether. The tree fern is for aeration and drainage, but it also breaks down over time, adding nutrients to the soil. You actually can skip it, if necessary. You can always add a bit more orchid bark in for drainage. The nutrients you would potentially lose will be made up for in frog waste.  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Paul

Loosing some of the nutrients by by having to skip the fern bark isn't a big deal. ABG is really nutrient rich for plants and can cause them to grow wicked fast. Slowing the growing down a bit by loosing some nutrients will just mean less trimming for you  :Smile: 

If you have to skip tree fern than increase the Bark and coal to help resist compaction and maybe even add a bit more peat moss as well to add more nutrients to the soil. Should work out great for you. You could even shrewd some leaf litter and mix it into the soil. It will breakdown overtime as well and provide food for your microfauna and nutrients for your plants.

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## Lija

> Lija,
> Just think !
> This is only the 1st one  
> 
> You may need to move to Northern California, plus the wine is really good there !


 Oh yeah! Totally! But my hubby doesnt really need to know that lol 

 dont tempt me lol living in US thus possibility of online frog shopping and plant shopping..... It. May. End. Very. Badly!

 I wouldnt think of mixing my own anything if already made is available, not for the first tank anyway. abg mix is not available for sale anywhere in canada that i can access, same goes for tree fern! I found tree fern panels in one online store for 30$ for 2 panels.... + 30$ shipping..... Rather not to buy it here....

 Ok i do this then:
1 part peat moss
1 part sphagnum moss
2 parts charcoal
3 parts of orchid bark
1 part of coconut fiber ( because i have tons of that)

 approve?


And if happen to find coconut background or by some miracle tree fern i will add 1-2 parts of that too - yes?


 Another question - should i do substrate mix and replant plants i have in that mix after washing off roots, or leave them how they are until i have rank ready for planting?

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## bill

That will work. As far as replanting. You can make your mix and replant them while you build. Won't hurt for them to get used to the new soil. I prefer to acclimate my plants just once. But there's absolutely no harm the other way. It's kinda like a quarantine for the plants. I believe Lynn does it that way and her plants are spectacular!!!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Wait wait slow down, i dont talk plants.... Yet lol

Quarantine for plants sounds exciting lol so - im replanting yes?

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## bill

Up to you  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Helpful lol. All right, im replanting them, going to go and crush some charcoal now!

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## bill

Hahahaha!!!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Paul

LoL 

Lija you are doing the right things first which will make you build amazing. If you ask 1000 questions along the way it will keep us from saying things like "umm you should of done it this way. Now you may need to tear it all apart to fix it" lol. Love that you are asking and learning along the way!

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## Lija

Yay Paul, i blushing here big time, i am so awesome!!!  You know you can say it anytime! I wont mind  :Wink: 

 no pressure, where is Lynn with queen lyrics when i need her. Lol

 okay new question - plant preparation, i know, i know i should read more in plant section, i got quite a few threads done, but....

you all know how paranoid i am in terms of quarantine and it got much worse after i had M. marinum in waxies last year. The only possible way to that nastiness to get into there was with pothos plant. With my luck whatever go wrong will go wrong, but im hoping a bomb wont explode in the exact same place twice.

 Washing roots, washing plant itself, dip into mild bleach, replant. Is there anything else that can be done, or it is ok? I dont think any plant will survive 99% alcohol or  burning to the ground lol
im really itching to autoclave all ingredients for the soil, but i guess not a good idea. Lol

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## Lija

> it will keep us from saying things like "umm you should of done it this way. Now you may need to tear it all apart to fix it" !


 you know you wanted to say it, you better just admit it, it would be so much fun! I think i wont disappoint you and you will still get a chance of doing so  :Smile:  i think i should just post a pic of the my nasutas tank and hide under the bed for a week after. Lol

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## Lija

Happy? lol but this was my first ever and i totally sucked. So many things gonna do differently now.
 by the way what is really weird - isopods and springtails can manage to completely dispose of their poop, who'd think, we are talking big big poop lol.

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## bill

Lol no, plants won't survive a 99% alcohol dip lol. Wash the plants and roots under running cold water, a mild bleach dip is fine. 

I know you had it rough with the m. Marinum, so I can understand being cautious. Obviously, autoclaving your soils would be bad, but, you can sit them out in the sun and allow everything to dry and then bake in the sun for 30 days or so and you won't lose many nutrients. In fact, in the planted tank game, we use mineralized top soil. It actually increases the nutrient levels in the soil, and may be a choice for you. It's a long drawn out process of moistening and drying and repeating the drying prices though. 

Do we have informational overload yet? Lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Mineralized top soil? I think.... I think..... I need a drink lol or two lol 

 ok wash, mild bleach, if something go wrong, blame Bill  :Smile:  got it!

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## bill

> Happy? lol but this was my first ever and i totally sucked. So many things gonna do differently now.
>  by the way what is really weird - isopods and springtails can manage to completely dispose of their poop, who'd think, we are talking big big poop lol.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I always liked this tank. Perfect for the nasuta. The plants go well together. But most important, it had everything the frog needs  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

> Mineralized top soil? I think.... I think..... I need a drink lol or two lol 
> 
>  ok wash, mild bleach, if something go wrong, blame Bill  got it!


You can blame me. I have no problem there. I'm used to it. My wife blames me for everything. She still blames me for Chernobyl, not sure how that works out lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Paul

Here is the plant processing guide I follow with all my plants. It is all pretty standard stuff, but this is the place I found it all neatly put together for me to read through and pour over lol.

New England Herpetoculture LLC - Plant Processing Procedure

Processing is actually easier than you would think and it well worth it. I have not had any plants die due to processing them and they are all doing very nicely!

I thought the thread http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...now-share.html was an excellent idea, but maybe should be moved to the terrarium section. I feel it is important for all new comers to see that even people building seemingly advanced tanks all started out as noobs at some point. (Even if all the evidence to this has been lost or destroyed BILL lol). I think sharing our knowledge, failures, and break throughs are paramount in helping others learn and grow with us  :Smile: . Posting failures sucks and is embarrassing, but the learning experience it has to offer is invaluable. 


The best thing anyone can do on this forum is take pictures, loads of pictures, and as a TON of questions. Show that you are interested in learning, do some research, and ask for advice. Everyone here (sometimes even noobs like myself) will chime in and offer some tips or advice that we got from someone else on our build or from a mistake we made.

Can't wait for your tank to arrive so you can get to the build phase!!!

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## Lija

> I always liked this tank. Perfect for the nasuta. The plants go well together. But most important, it had everything the frog needs 
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


 really? Have i ever posted pics? Hm.... Getting old and all lol   I must say that is a very polite way of saying, woman that is really bad  lol
substrate is exo earth, hanging plants are potted i think in exo earth too and drying out once in a while, that fancy structure called water fall sucks with water going everywhere..... Shall i continue lol oh and i have tubes going in and out of exo terra turtle filter. how exactly plants are still alive is a mystery...

and i should probably blame you for Chernobyl too, you know when you think about it, it completely makes sense! 

 Paul asking questions no problem, but would you believe if i say once upon a time i came here asking totally unique question - help! my pacman is not eating lol oh those days  :Smile:

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## bill

i thought you posted pics a while back. i could be confused though. i have looked at hundreds of enclosures on this site, hard to keep track. lol

Paul, she did!! i remember!! we joined about the same time and i kept thinking to myself, such a noob!! not really, because i was a noob too!! we were just noobs in different disciplines. lol

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## Carlos

Hi Lija, just found your new thread.  Did you ordered the custom tank yet?  Is it cheaper that way than just buying an ExoTerra Large Medium (36x18x24 in tall)? You could place a 36x18 in. piece of 3/4 in. marine plywood on your stand to hold it with a 3/4 in. trim glued to edges so it's nice.

In regards to your question on pond or filter; suggest you look at the Supreme Danner Ovation internal filters.  They are nice units that output to a tube that could be connected to hoses, same as a pump.  They go from linked unit (1000 and largest) then to 700 and 210 models.

If replacing tree fern with coco coir, recommend using the chunk coco; not the shredded one.  Good luck  :Smile:  !

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## Lija

Carloooooossssssssssss! You are confusing meeeeeeeeeee  :Smile: 

yes i did order 150$ for 34x16x24with sliding doors  :Smile:  exo terras of 24x18x24 are around 200,  next size up is close to 300-350 and very hard to find. 

 I thought we established, pump + shrimp thing for the bottom of the pond would do.  Pls confirm smbody  :Smile:   i saw in one of the threads your recommended filter and couldn't find it here. 8-12 weeks shipping time from states...... To wait so long to start the thing.... Noooooooooo lol

 coconut chunk, what do you mean?  Background?  

Oh and i do need some leaf litter right?

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## Paul

Leaf liter = required  :Smile: 

You can use it on the substrate and in the pond  :Smile: 

Wow where did you get your tank built from? I know there is a place in Canada that does them if you live local, but I don't know of anything like that in the states. 

I guess I need to reread all the posts in this thread to find all the ones about the pump and shrimp and the smiley faces.

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## bill

Lija, Carlos is talking about coco husk. Basically, orchid bark. Same stuff, different terminology   :Smile:  don't fret your pretty little head over it lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Carlos

So Coco husk and Orchid bark are the same...  :Big Grin:  !

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## bill

Yup. That stuff they sell in gardening center that is listed as "orchid mix" is, for the most part, coarse coco husk chunks  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Lija

> So Coco husk and Orchid bark are the same...  !


really? Why didnt you tell me before?  :Frown:  going in my hole and cry and after crush some more charcoal!

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## bill

You didn't ask!! Lol

Btw, make sure you wear a respirator or at least a kerchief over your breathing passages when crushing charcoal. It's nasty stuff.  :Frown: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Lija

> You didn't ask!! Lol
> 
> Btw, make sure you wear a respirator or at least a kerchief over your breathing passages when crushing charcoal. It's nasty stuff. 
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


lol you know there is such a thing like creativity! And brain too lol  just because im so smart i have a strong ziploc bag for that, putting stuff in, and here you go, that one to Bill, that one to Paul, that one to whoever annoy me more lol alternating you know. And after you have charcoal powder and you are feeing awesome! Highly recommend! 
 You still need to put powder in a soil without inhaling it  :Smile:  some creativity again and you are good to go.

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## bill

I can envision this. Bags lined up, Lija has her hammer in hand "coarse coco huh Carlos? Here's your orchid bark!" Wham!! "Hey bill! I got your substrate filter right here!" WHAM!! "And you Paul! I'll get you too! And your little dog!" WHAM WHAM WHAM!!!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Lynn

> lol you know there is such a thing like creativity! And brain too lol  just because im so smart i have a strong ziploc bag for that, putting stuff in, and here you go, that one to Bill, that one to Paul, that one to whoever annoy me more lol alternating you know. And after you have charcoal powder and you are feeing awesome! Highly recommend! 
>  You still need to put powder in a soil without inhaling it  some creativity again and you are good to go.


No, no, no, no, no ........ Don't bother with the charcoal powder!
Go for the coconut husk ! 
Or ever better the tree fern fiber!
(Why do think you can't get any ? )
We use it all here the US of A _ when we are building our enclosures_ !

 :Big Grin:

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## Lynn

This thread  is like a comic strip !
Honestly ...we may all be crazy !



 :Big Grin:

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## Lija

Bill, you got it right!

 LYYYYYYYYNNNNNNNNN! Hey girl im working very intense on that powder! Dont rub it in, yeah i know you all have it and can ship and get frogs anytime you want :cry:  ( lija carries on sitting in her hole under the leaf and crying)

 nothing is available here  :Frown:  perhaps for people like me that is a good thing! But i will be using coco husk, i have a brick left after last tanks cleaning day.

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## Lija

> Honestly ...we may all be crazy !



 i cant believe it Lynn..... Really??? When you go to the store and see plants what does normal person think - thats right you are thinking if it is good for your tank, or the other tank, or then one you are gonna build after that. Now when you see charcoal, what do you think? Yeah that's right  :Smile: 

i think we are all normal, how it is our problem that everyone else is not?

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## Lynn

_I'll tell ya.......funny stuff goes on round here_ !

 :Topsy Turvy:

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## Paul

24 hours without a new question. Did you drink yourself into a comma? If so can I have your tank  :Smile:

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## bill

If Paul gets your tank, I got dibs on the nasuta!! Lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Lija

Lol not so fast fellas, i'm down in anticipation of my tank coming home with me tomorrow  :Smile:  Hopefully the guy wont mess with me, he dealt with me 2 years ago, still remembers lol

 hey Lynn funny part  (me building it) hasn't started yet 

Im getting isos and springs today and more plants ( blaming it all on you), and leaf litter and i hope nothing else. Im going into very dangerous territory of dart frog breeders and they live not far from me.

 I still cant get any wood i like  :Frown:  Oh here is a question since i cant find anything outside, what out of commercially sold wood would work? I can totally steal smth from my geckos tanks.

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## bill

Haha! You're gonna have darts next!!

I am very sad for you that you can't find any wood you like  :Wink:  
Commercial woods sold would be manzanita, ghost wood and mopani. And if you are lucky, you may be able to find some cypress knees available  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Next question  :Smile: 

 orchid bark is fir bark not coco husk, ha!

Is there any difference between fir, cypress and cedar bark? They look the same. Are all safe to use?

 Dart frog people were not available today  :Frown:  darn

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## bill

You are correct m'lady, I freely admit to being wrong. I was told long ago that it was coco.y apologies for providing you incorrect information. Can you ever find it in your heart to forgive me?  :Wink: 

Well, they are all conifers. Obviously fir is safe if it is in ABG. I know cypress is safe because we can use cypress knees in our tanks. And I just don't like the smell of cedar, so I don't care about that one  :Smile:  my guess would be yes to fir and cypress, but I thought there was something toxic about cedar??



Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

> You are correct m'lady, I freely admit to being wrong. I was told long ago that it was coco.y apologies for providing you incorrect information. Can you ever find it in your heart to forgive me? 
> a


 Well....... I just got big charcoal bag from home depot..... Im dedicating it to you!

 Ok then cedar goes to backyard just like it was planning on!

----------


## bill

Holy kraaaaaaappp! How many charcoal lumps are you putting
In this soil? Lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Lija

Who said anything about putting it all in a soil  :Angel: 

how soil should look like ( pic may be?) it is not like potting soil, right, visually lots of bark, right?

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## bill

Right! 

I know, crushing stuff is therapeutic. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Lija

Especially when you attach a name to it! 

 Hey - i had another question, are you ignoring me now? Ok ok i'll dedicate only half of the bag to you  :Smile:  ill try to be nice here  lol

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## bill

I would never ignore you Lija, I know better. Just been busy the past few days and been fighting a bad toothache.  :Frown: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Lija

I think your wife trained you well!!! Lol nothing is better for a toothache the frog forum!

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## bill

So true. That and a bunch of anbesol/ibuprofen lol I'm too much of a sissy to go to the dentist. I hate the dentist!! Lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## bill

> I think your wife trained you well!!! Lol nothing is better for a toothache the frog forum!


Well, first my mom trained me well, the wife just reinforced things lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

I think.... I'm in love....... With imitators lol damn I saw the tads, just morphed babies, hear them sing..., this is really bad.... 

Reporting after the trip to dart frog people and near by garden centre, see pics  :Smile:  really love that little fern that says crispy wave on it.
I kinda think I have enough plants to do two tanks now lol






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## Lynn

Lija,

Do you know about these Canadian businesses? I believe they are all in Canada?
Lots of supplies. I'm sure someone must have some decent wood !

UE !!!!

About | Understory Enterprises
"_All sales and distribution are handled through Canada._"

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jungl...ation=timeline

DART FROG INC - SPLASH

The Green Oasis - The Green Oasis

Western Gecko Products

Canadian vendor from a show last Feb in Toronto

ReptileExpo.ca Â» Toronto Reptile Expo – Sunday, February 2nd 2014

RAINFOREST DESIGNS

of course '' Mist King"
MistKing.com - Premium Adjustable Misting Systems | Canadart

Quality Terrariums - Cornelsworld

 :Butterfly:

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## bill

Haha! We're converting another one Lynn!!!! Lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Lija

Yeah :Frown:  i know about them, i tried to ignore that they exist lol they only have dart stuff, cornelworld is actually in Calgary, they build very nice tanks, but very pricey, mist king is also here. Interesting though what they use for substrate, may be that is how you do darts, dont know. They use very very thin layer of castings and something else that i forgot and it all sits on hydroballs. That is  the ones lynn had link for  :Smile:  im sooo unfortunate to live so close by :cry: one thing saves me, they are pretty expensive. 

 Can you please ID these clipping that i got. I wanna be a plant wizard just like Bill when i grow up!

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## bill

Looks like you got some scotch moss, a fittonia species (aluminum plant), ficus pumila (creeping  fig), a nephrolopsis sp. Fern, and the last one looks like a hart's tongue fern, but I could be wrong on that one. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------

Lija

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## Lija

Last one says crispy wave fern, it looks and feels like plastic, really weird. Love that one, but kinda not want to kill the thing. If it is fern should do well in my substrate, yes?

edit - hm.... Googled, it may be the one i have, http://www.po.flowerscanadagrowers.c...ium-nidus-fern. NASA preferred plant  :Smile:  but it says it will grow very big... Hm may be i should just keep it as a house plant?

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## bill

It very well could be an asplenium nidus. That's the main genus of bird's best ferns. There are probably like 40 Cultivars. Anyone who crosses theirs with something names it something different. It's why identifying ferns is so freaking hard!! 

And you better get some of that green oasis stuff Lynn linked you to. That's killer stuff. Then find a way to send me some! Lol i just got in 2 huge fistfuls of an uncommon, dark leafed cultivar of lobelia cardinalis. You smuggle for me and I'll smuggle for you!! (Frog forum does not condone or encourage illegally shipping items across borders.  :Smile:  ) 

The fern will grow big, but you can manage it well with trimming. It's a fairly slow grower. You may get one or two fronds a month. They do make pretty house plants too. I have an asplenium nidus 'crocodylus' that heather gave me as a houseplant. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

And I guess you know that the pink and green plant is a caladium sp.   :Smile:  is that for the house? I grow that same plant on my porch with begonias around it's base. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lynn

I was on Cornelworld site and facebook page. 
Really nice work
They are cheaper when compared to the US.

They could make many awesome dart enclosures for you  :Big Grin: 
You might as well start with one that houses three species.
Make sure they keep the plans..........so that you can match it to your next order.

Why don't you give him a call- _pick his brain_-  find out where he is getting his 'stuff '.

 :Butterfly:

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## Lynn

Supplies;Moss spread ,Leaves - The Green Oasis

Must haves!


off topic
Lija,
Can you see the smoke from the wild fires in Washington ( State) ?
???  The mountains are probably blocking it? The typical weather pattern would more likely push it east.

Just awful.... more than 100 homes are gone  :Frown: 
"They" say the smoke can be see for 100's and 100's of miles 
The fires are in the Cascades- sad

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/19...mty_twitter_fn

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## Lija

No Lynn, we cant see or smell fires here, too far i guess and over the rockies, it is terrible down there.

cornel are more expensive then exoterras and tanks the guy im ordering from is making, ive never seen any naturalistic tanks from him either, weird. 

 Caladium i felt in love with, too bad i cant have it anywhere other then in terrarium  :Frown:  one of the most poisonous to cats plants. It is so pretty though.

i was looking at that moss spread earlier and yesterday saw in action and wasnt sure, wasnt too impressed actually.

Cant wait for my tank to be done.  :Smile:  so i can start making it all pretty.

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## Paul

When do you get your tank?

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## Lija

Hopefully monday! Oh yeah!

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## Lynn

Found my way
Here we go : 

So , Lija have you prepped your nice new plant(s) delivery?

 :Butterfly:

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## Lija

No, not yet, i busy prepping myself lol and looking at imitators pictures lol

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## Paul

Ohh Man! We better get a TON of pictures from you next week as the build moves from your head to the tank! Have you nailed down your layout yet or are you waiting to see the tank in person before you commit to any one thing?

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## Lija

No i havent yet and the tank is not ready too,  :Frown:  things are moving slowly, which is good, given i have literally an hour a day of free time. Plants are prepped ( i hope), tried light. Soil is mixed! 

Anyhow next question, the led light i posted pic earlier and you guys approved. I turned it on on one of my 18x18x24 and it looks pretty dim. I wonder if is it because i just used to different light or i should exchange it to smth else. 
Advise needed pleeeaaaassse  :Smile:

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## Paul

Lija, I think the light you have is like 6 or 7watts? ou may need something more like 13 or 26wats to get good penetration all the way to the substrate.

How long is the tank delayed by?

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## Karen aka mshine1217

> Oh, whatever works. I would have grabbed the tequila myself lol


Now you're talking about my kind of poison ;-))

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## Lija

> Lija, I think the light you have is like 6 or 7watts? ou may need something more like 13 or 26wats to get good penetration all the way to the substrate.
> 
> How long is the tank delayed by?


 it was supposed to be ready last friday, but that's ok, i was way too busy lately.

 Light yes i think it is 6,4 or similar, it is led for 24" tank. Bigger size is for 30" that now i think i should have gotten, but it is about 10 smth. 

How visually you can tell looking at the tank that light is ok? When you look and you think it should be bright enough? Go with gut feeling type of thing?

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## Paul

Lija,

You want it to be fairly bright down at the soil. It sounds like you have the Same LED system I do. It works and things grown, but t seems a bit Dim (I have mine on an 18x18x24). I am going to give LED another go on my next tank, but the last 2 tanks I bought T5HO lighting and the plants are going crazy. I have already had to trim the Mantella tank once in less than 2 months! Though that could also be because I have started to spray fertilizer on the plants every 3 weeks.

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## Lija

Got it thanks! Ill try go exchange it first for bigger led, just to try, cos i like the LED idea, the next size up was 30". If that's too dim too, ill go with the one you suggested  :Smile:  
 or may be i leave that one for nasuta tank. Are you saying plants are gonna grow under these lights? I have right now regular light saving lamp and uvb,  by replacing that lamp with LED and leaving UVB, it will be still dim, but that is how nasuta like it.


 Update on the tank - plants are all replanted and it seemed survived my abuse with bleach and washing them, well i dont see any dead ones....not yet anyway!

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## bill

Here's the skinny on lights Lija. No matter what style light you use (led, florescent, cfl) as long as the bulbs are in the 6500k temp, your plants will grow. Fluorescents have the advantage of a much greater spread of light, while led's are more focused. They are making better, wide angled optics, but those are only on the primo units. For a 36" high tank, led is the way to go, since the focused beams of light will penetrate to the substrate better than any others. Don't worry about wattage. Yes, higher watts normally equate to more light, but when talking LEDs, it's about how many lenses you get. Example: the led I recommend for 18" wide tanks is made by beam works. It has 3 rows of lenses vs 2 rows with comparable units. More lenses=more spread. 

My only complaint is I would want an led with some 3000k (red) lenses in it for my flowering plants. At least in the tanks where I keep flowering plants. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Paul

Yeah that light will encourage plant growth.

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## Lija

Ok, you guys gotta slow down here, i dont speak lenses lol. 

If i need different light, when i go to the store what do i need to look for exactly? Petsmart has same led, but 30" instead of my 24" - no idea about specifications- yes or no?

please gimme me smth i can go to the store and give to the sales people to show me. i dont know about light/length/whatever, just very general idea

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## bill

Let me look over their site when I get home from work. 

Btw lens=bulb  :Stick Out Tongue: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

Darn it if I didn't look at every led on their website and not one, zero, zilch, nada had lighting specs. Wtf?? I would probably go with the aqueon freshwater series? Without knowing what color temp it's throwing out, it's impossible to recommend one of theirs. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

That is exactly that - whites and tree and frog!

 Ok look LED Aquarium Lighting Freshwater Bright what do you think? They ship to canada ( shipping is close to the cost of the thing itself) or i can go look into speciality aquatic store here for smth similar.

or anything other then that light, on that website.

i think i should look for 3 tubes ( lens  :Wink:  and 30" for 34" tank - yes?

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## Paul

Have you looked on Amazon? Assuming Amazon is available in CA :/

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## bill

Never assume anything is available in Canada, except for molson, moose and grizzly bears  :Wink: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Exactly Bill  :Wink: 

 however can someone to answer my question :Wink:  Please!

 It is my very deep understanding pet stores in Calgary including specialized, completely useless. The few led in stock are around 200$ and based on what i think i need wont work for me. Petsmart has the bigger one, but it has only 2 rows of led and not by much brighter then mine.  

 So the please help me choose what i should order from the guys i posted link above. Even with shipping it is not bad in comparison  :Smile:

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## bill

Check to see if aquatraders.com ships to canada. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

Booyah!!! http://www.aquatraders.com/LED-Aquar...t-p/56576p.htm


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

It takes 136W a bit much i must say

 what about smth like that LED Aquarium Lighting Freshwater Bright

or that http://www.aquatraders.com/ProductDe...uctCode=56365P

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## bill

Go with the first one. Beams work 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Bill, they both beamworks, first one has 3 rows of light, 1700 lum, second has 5 rows and 2800 lum.

so which one? Second one is brighter, and both same brand. So if you could clarify for specially challenged people that would be great  :Wink:  im going to order as soon as im back. 

 and... I AM going to pick up my tank now! Oh yeahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! Timing couldnt be more prefect, as of 3 hours ago im on holidays! And what can be more perfect way to spend holiday them doing a tank!

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## bill

2800 lumens. I just noticed the price. I didn't look at it before because I'm not buying it. Lol but are you kidding me? $50 for a 30" led? And if you live in the lower 48, free shipping? That's a heck of a deal!!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

And what holiday is coming up? I know you Canucks celebrate weird holidays. What is it? National moose pride week??  :Stick Out Tongue: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Lmao   But dont get me started over weird stuff you guys do lol

no, vacation time for me, that is a good stuff. Bad stuff that i ended up not picking up the tank. You know me right lol im very very scary, so the tank wasnt exactly how i wanted it to be, the guy is redoing it for tomorrow  :Smile:  and it is going to be 29 vs 24" height like initially planned with 7" waterproof area on a bottom. Bummed about hold up, but i better wait then be mad about tank being not perfect  :Smile: 

 anyhow the fixture is on the way. 

Next question. Sliding doors are going to be at 7" height from a bottom. How long my pvc supporting egg crate should be? 4,5?

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## Lynn

_ "oh oh  oh .....teacher , teacher , teacher "_
May I answer this one !
(this is a lot of pressure )

2-3"
You want deeper soil for the plants.
Or if there is a submersible pump - it will have to be covered with water.

How did I do ? Having never built a false bottom
I'm a _layered substrate_ gal  :Smile:

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## Lija

I have no idea how did u do lol but i think you did awesome! Im going to go look at my pump.

 But here is another question - how deep the substrate should be?

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## bill

I would go 4". Water level of 3" you can them have 3" of substrate in the front, sloping to about 5" or so in the back. That creates a sense of depth. 

You did well Lynn!!! For a layered substrate gal!! Lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

Well, where this new, fancy dancy tank?????


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Right.... No pressure lol picking up the thing to tomorrow, hopefully it will be all right. Thinking i will do pond thing in the middle not in a corner like i was thinking initially. What sucks though that we will be leaving for a week starting monday, so i hope i can do great stuff/ silicone before that so it can cure while im away.

oh progress report - apparently i can use a hand saw  :Smile:  pvc pipe is all cut and ready. And i started to rip apart nasutas tank, i dont like the soil, it is waterlogged in at least few areas, a few ferns are dying, ficus though have no problems literally sitting in a water, but nasutas are all fat and happy.

Q - i have external filter without adjustable flow and i would really like to slow down the flow. It is possible to do and how?

 And one more q - led lights, what spectrum they are? I like how they look like, i like energy saving aspect, question if i need to add uvb for those who require it.

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## bill

Answer 1: yes, you just need to purchase valves to put inline of your tubing. Eheim sells a lot of dual valves, one for output and one for intake. What flavor filter is it??

Answer 2: 6500k (kelvin). As far as I know, there is not a uv led on the market yet, but I could be wrong. 

So you're picking up a new tank, the. Going away for a week, for what purpose, just to torture us? That's just not right. I think you should cancel the vacation and build instead. Priorities woman!!!!! LOL


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

And yay for using the hand saw and still having all your appendages!!!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

> you're picking up a new tank, the. Going away for a week, for what purpose, just to torture us? That's just not right. I think you should cancel the vacation and build instead. Priorities woman


torturing people is secret talent of mine  :Smile:  just so you know :Wink:  


answer 1 - Bill, you wrote it in english? Can you please explain for dummies, like for very very dummies what the heck did you mean. I need valves, yes? That part is the only one i got  :Smile:  it is like join, you stick it in a middle of the tube and can adjust? Like for IV? Where can i find these?
the filter is Exo Terra : Turtle Filter FX-350 / External Canister Filter

answer 2. I will pretend i understood lol, but i did get that led can be used for daylight only....  So my cresties are gonna carry on with uvb then. 


 People can you please explain me this. I should be focusing on a project im about to do, right! Instead i think about it and the next one and the one after that.....

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## Lija

> And yay for using the hand saw and still having all your appendages!!!
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela



 im so proud of myself! I think i will ask santa for dremel now lol who needs jewelry anyway  :Smile:

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## Lija

Oh and another q - my brom has 2 little "babies",  what should i do, i think they are too little to separate, should i plant them all together when time comes?

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## Paul

Brom n babies. I leave my pups attached until the base looks ready to separate, but that is me and I am by no means an expert. I plant them together then desperate them when I feel the time is right lol. 


Yes a valve is similar to a sink faucet, IV drip valve, or ..... Another example I can't think of right now. 


What bill means is the tube running from the filter to the tank. Simply cut the tube in half somewhere between the 2 and install the valve. Then you can open or close the valve some to adjust the flow  :Smile: 


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## bill

Wait. You have that exact filter? Because it is adjustable. See that little knob on the top? This one is from a fx-200:


That's your FLOW CONTROL KNOB!! LOL
 :Stick Out Tongue: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Paul

*holds comment till Lija verifies big knob exist 

 :Wink: 


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## bill

As far as number 2 goes. I'll try to keep it simple. Plants utilize the "color" of light to complete the photosynthesis process. Ultraviolet doesn't play into this, it's not needed. We measure the color of light in the Kelvin scale. The lower the kelvin value, the more red the light is. Example: most "plant bulbs" you find at the hardware or big box store are rated around 3000k. They appear more red when viewed by the human eye. Great for flowering plants, but not so optimum for foliage growth. At the opposite end of the scale is 10000k. This is the blue end of the spectrum. Excellent for complex algae, like the algae that lives within corals, but also, not optimum for nice, lush foliage growth. In the middle is what we desire to provide to our plants. White light, with a touch of blue: 5000k-6700k. That's the ticket. 

Now, an example on how this all ties together to make a bit more sense. I am going to use the plant cannabis sativa as the example. Disclaimer: I, nor frog forum, endorse the growing of this plant since it is illegal to grow it. Cannabis is an amazing plant. It has beautiful foliage and gorgeous flowers, off allowed to bloom. If you were growing it indoors, you would provided it with 6500k lighting to promote vegetative growth. In order to force it to bloom, you would provide it with 3000k lighting. This would trick the plant into thinking it was later in the season when the sun would be at a different angle and would be providing the plant a different spectrum of lighting. 

See? Simple?  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Lmao...... Yeah keep comments coming now  :Wink: 


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## Lija

> As far as number 2 goes. I'll try to keep it simple. Plants utilize the "color" of light to complete the photosynthesis process. Ultraviolet doesn't play into this, it's not needed. We measure the color of light in the Kelvin scale. The lower the kelvin value, the more red the light is. Example: most "plant bulbs" you find at the hardware or big box store are rated around 3000k. They appear more red when viewed by the human eye. Great for flowering plants, but not so optimum for foliage growth. At the opposite end of the scale is 10000k. This is the blue end of the spectrum. Excellent for complex algae, like the algae that lives within corals, but also, not optimum for nice, lush foliage growth. In the middle is what we desire to provide to our plants. White light, with a touch of blue: 5000k-6700k. That's the ticket. 
> 
> Now, an example on how this all ties together to make a bit more sense. I am going to use the plant cannabis sativa as the example. Disclaimer: I, nor frog forum, endorse the growing of this plant since it is illegal to grow it. Cannabis is an amazing plant. It has beautiful foliage and gorgeous flowers, off allowed to bloom. If you were growing it indoors, you would provided it with 6500k lighting to promote vegetative growth. In order to force it to bloom, you would provide it with 3000k lighting. This would trick the plant into thinking it was later in the season when the sun would be at a different angle and would be providing the plant a different spectrum of lighting. 
> 
> See? Simple? 
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela



 Very simple, lol i might even get it at some point  :Wink:  i actually think i do get it... and since some of us dont talk plants.... Yet......all i needed to know if a frog/reptile needs uvb for metabolism just having led is not enough, yes?

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## Paul

Ohhh man. I will respectfully decline to comment  :Smile: 

Btdoubleyou you don't need a valve  :Wink: 


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## Paul

No not all frogs need UVB. Maybe toads do? I don't have any UVB bulbs going on any of my 18 frogs..... Yes I have a frog addiction..... So what!


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## Lija

> No not all frogs need UVB. Maybe toads do? I don't have any UVB bulbs going on any of my 18 frogs..... Yes I have a frog addiction..... So what!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



 Hi Paul, my name is natalija and i have an addiction too.... So what lol and i think last i counted we had over 60 animals in total... I think, that was a number we stopped counting and went to get some wine.....

 no i was asking in general. I have uvb for all breeding geckos, some other animals, but i wanna know. Cos when you see mbd in supplemented animal kept under led that is another thing to look at.

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## bill

Correct. If you are using LEDs, you would need to use supplemental uv lighting if the inhabitant requires it. Sorry, I got a little side tracked on that answer lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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Lija

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## bill

> Attachment 71261
> 
> 
> Lmao...... Yeah keep comments coming now 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Good grief!!! Lmao!!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

> Correct. If you are using LEDs, you would need to use supplemental uv lighting if the inhabitant requires it. Sorry, I got a little side tracked on that answer lol
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


 yeah yeah, lol you wanted to confuse me, but actually im glad you went all out i have better understanding now, just gimme time and im gonna be a pro just like you  :Smile:  probably not..... Oh well  :Smile:

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## bill

A pro? Me? Please, I just have a bunch of useless knowledge rattling around in my empty head lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

I found your useless knowledge very..... Informative  :Smile: 


 all right guys, i need a crush course on smth else.... Apparently i destroyed the saw i was using lol because it was my hubby's precious wood saw..... Oh well, women and instruments.... Anyhow, im pretty sure i was using it more then he was lol

PS. Im so glad he is not around this forum lol

ok so while waiting for my new tank that i really hope to pick up today, im slowly ripping nasutas tank apart......  And got bit yesterday as their thanks, was kinda funny in comparison to say pixie....
so that big thing that is supposed to be a flow control  in my filter i think works, but not to the point i need. I have no idea what has happened. It was perfect before, during water test and later for like 5-6 months, but now the water is finding its own way and out of the place it used to and into the substrate.... The fact that happened after i cleaned the pipes and that i sucked at making substrate before was not exactly helping.  I think my isos and springs are dead in that tank... Or i may just not see them, frogs though are very happy. Anyhow im gonna play around with that thing when i return. Will help me with wait for drying/curing whatever is happening in a new one  :Smile:  

 so to help contain water in its way to the pond- everything around is covered with silicone. If i spray black foam +silicone/moss/ coco fiber  in places water gets away - will it work or i should forget about it and start from scratch?

 Obviously i will need to change the substrate too, for the same i do for my new one.

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## bill

Ok, let's start with A) PVC shouldn't have ruined a saw. The metal is so much harder than PVC. It's actually easier on a saw than cutting something like oak, so now worries there.  :Smile: 
 Now B) pics, pics, pics!! Help me, help you. Post some pics so we can see exactly what you want to do. 

And just for future reference, unless you are using sealed channels, similar to a gutter, controlling water is never going to happen. It's going to go where it wants, there ain't nuttin you can do about it lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Yeah.... I think it was just the fact itself that i used his saw.... Lol.....

 Yes, will do pcs too, i guess what i meant to ask was if foam will adhere to silicone.

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## bill

Foam will indeed adhere to silly cone. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lynn

I believe today ...is the day ?????

We're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaating to see the new tank  :Smile:

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## Lija

:Smile:  it is not how i wanted, but my patience was gone. Lol like long ago gone lol

Advice needed since he didnt do holes for cables. 

I got this 


 Im thinking to cut the wire on a top, glue this thing in, after cables are through cut big piece of black foam to cover the hole so the frogs wont get out. 

Yes? Or not? Or smth else? 


 Got that too, no idea why.... It just looked at me funny 


 And got that too to mix in my soil. If no go, lemme me know, i will have whete to use it  :Wink:

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## bill

That plug will work just fine. Your idea will work  :Smile: 

The plant looked at you funny? Man, I am not even going there lol

That soil is my go to. Combine that with some bark, and some cocofiber and other stuffs and your plants will thrive. The key is mixing in enough large items to promote drainage and prevent compaction. That's why ABG mix is the standard. Peat moss is excellent for drainage. It's also the only part of ABG mix that offers any nutrients. That soil mix have peat moss and other humus substances in it to offer excellent, natural, organic fertilizers.  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

> That plug will work just fine. Your idea will work 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela




.???? Whaaaaattttt? Would never guess that day will come! Bill is saying this to me.... Awwwwwwwweeeeeeee! 

About that soil we gonna have a separate discussion, mister..... I was going all out looking for tree fern and coco husk and hell knows what all over the place.... And obviously there was a easier solution.... And you all knew..... Rrrrrrrrrrrrrr


yeah yeah... I know i didnt ask lol

 but now i have enough soil do to 2 tanks!yeahhhhhh!

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## bill

As far as the soil. I normally don't recommend soil to people because it's against the norm. A lot of people just will toss that soil in and then will regret it down the road because it compacts and bogs out. It must be mixed with other items to make it usable in a Viv. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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Lija

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## Lija

Thanks Bill! Now the real question is how i will survive without doing anything to the tank for the whole week while im away.  :Frown:

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## Paul

The tank looks Great!! Cant wait till you start on the building!! Enjoy your vacation and Grats to your husband!!

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## bill

> Thanks Bill! Now the real question is how i will survive without doing anything to the tank for the whole week while im away.


My first thought would be, ummmm, plum wine? Lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

> My first thought would be, ummmm, plum wine? Lol
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela



 Exactly!

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## Lija

Remember me?  :Smile: 
feel free anytime to point whatever im not doing right!

Progress report:

Supports are cut, draining holes in them done too.

1 step


2 step


Will silicone everything in, so it wont go all over the place and may be do spray foam today too if time permits, gotta wait until wood is boiled and dry.... So probably will play with it tomorrow.

Oh and got a nice surprise when got home, almost all plants that i got earlier, dead or close to it. My older daughter who was supposed to look after everything while we're away was really trying not to forget to water them, so very much overdid it  :Frown:   anyhow, repotted live ones, hope something will survive, if not shopping time! 


Ok back to unpacking  :Smile:

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## Paul

Bummer about the plants  :Frown: 

Tank is looking good. I like the layout of the base!

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## Lija

Put together waterfall thing, now waiting to it to dry so i can lay tank on a back to carry on with background. 



 Also tested my pump, works good.

 My DH gift sucked ( pic below), i used some, but it is not spraying anymore, it couldnt dry out in between application, i put it down literally for a few minutes.
 Advise?

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## Lija

Right just realized i should have put screen mesh before the foam..... Will need to get creative and silicone it in, or i will leave it be, since i screw it up anyway, the goal is for it to be there, right? And sooner or later doesn't really matter

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## Paul

Meh adding the screen later is what I always do. It is a pain, but easier than fighting with the screen through all the foaming. 

Get a tooth pick or something and dig at the nozzle of the spray foam to get the plug out that formed and then you are good to go  :Smile: 

Looks good so far! So exciting!

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## Lija

Thanks Paul!  :Smile: 

 what kind of wood are exo terra branches? Im digging through supplies i have and i like one of those, dont want to risk black mold though. 

 Oh and i have one nice java wood branch - yes or no in a tank? Im thinking i will also do cord+moss+ smth else vine(s) to fill out the space, saw one of Lynn creations, got inspired, thank you Lynn!

The hardest part of building the tank is waiting.... Rrrrrrrrrrr...... But i hope plum wine is a solution! And shopping!  :Wink:

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## Paul

I think the exo terra branches are Mopani or something they are terrarium safe, but a picture will help me ID it. Java wood is not good in humid tanks, that one will breakdown fast and could develop some nasty mold.

Yeah I love that fine Lynn made. I have a design done for my next tank and am planning to attempt to do the same type of vine  :Smile:

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## Lija

That is one that i think is grapevine, might be wrong.

And exo terra http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/forest_branch.php

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## Paul

That looks Mopani to me. Is it heavy? Grapevine is extremely light and feels a bit like Pine.

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## Lija

No it is not light, i might use it then.

what about exo terras?

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## Paul

All the google searching i did makes it seem like they use Grapevine for their branches. Best way to tell is if the wood feels dense/heavy for it size. Hardwoods are all good in Humid conditions and will feel abnormally heavy compared to their size. I am sure you know this, but soft woods = Bad for us

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## Lija

Got it! Thanks! Java and exo terras stay where they are now then!

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## Lija

Ok sprayed some foam and saw that i way way underestimated the amount of it i need, so back to the store, will get some rope too, to do smth like Lynn did. Sucky part is that i cant get more of black foam, so will need to get regular and be careful when covering it later. Oh well...
Still have one can of black left, will keep it in case i need more of it later.

 Foam on waterfall part has expanded and i kinda like how it looks.... With moss growing should be really good...Which is weird... I never like right off whatever i do lol


 Will make space to plant smth hanging above the cork where waterfall goes from, should be nice i think when it will grow in.

 Can you guys remind me how to make drains for background plants?

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## Paul

If you have a Menards near where you live they have Great Stuff Pond and stone which is the same stuff  :Smile:

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## Lija

Yes, that is what im using, it is darker color in the pics. Greyish foam is what i posted pics, that was DH gift for me  :Wink:  the thought is what counts, right  :Smile:  but i would never have bought it myself, too expensive and as it turned out it is grey!

great stuff pond is available only in home hardware stores, that is about 40 min drive from me and they dont have it. As they said i bought all they had, it is on backorder but they are not sure when it is going to be here. Im not waiting now lol  not for great stuff  :Smile:

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## Carlos

Hi Lija!  Just got here; but will confirm the dark knurly wood appears mopani and what ET sells is sandblasted grapewine  :Smile:  .  Have to read rest of thread to catch up.

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## Amy

I'm loving it, Lija!

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## Carlos

OK, tank is very nice and I'm caught up in thread.  A tip for next time when crushing lump charcoal or even tree fern.  You will need a heavy SUV/truck; my Toyota FJ Cruiser works fine.  

Place material to be crushed in a high count (400-600 TC) cotton pillow and zip tie it close.  Don't overfill, you want it to fill as if pillow inside only.  Then drive back and forth over it like 6 times.  Check for "doneness" and if happy, just cut zip tie and bag results.  Remember to wear breathing protection if dealing with coal lumps.  All done in couple minutes with no hammering  :Big Grin:  !

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## Paul

> You will need a heavy SUV/truck; my Toyota FJ Cruiser works fine.  
> 
> Place material to be crushed in a high count (400-600 TC) cotton pillow and zip tie it close.  Don't overfill, you want it to fill as if pillow inside only.  Then drive back and forth over it like 6 times.  Check for "doneness" and if happy, just cut zip tie and bag results.  Remember to wear breathing protection if dealing with coal lumps.  All done in couple minutes with no hammering  !


I think you sir win tip of the year!

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Mentat

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## bill

> OK, tank is very nice and I'm caught up in thread.  A tip for next time when crushing lump charcoal or even tree fern.  You will need a heavy SUV/truck; my Toyota FJ Cruiser works fine.  
> 
> Place material to be crushed in a high count (400-600 TC) cotton pillow and zip tie it close.  Don't overfill, you want it to fill as if pillow inside only.  Then drive back and forth over it like 6 times.  Check for "doneness" and if happy, just cut zip tie and bag results.  Remember to wear breathing protection if dealing with coal lumps.  All done in couple minutes with no hammering  !


Or just purchase activated carbon from the store.  :Wink: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Carlos! Hammering is more fun!  :Wink:  especially when you put a face behind it lol

 ok people got more GS and some live moss, need ID will post pic a bit later, while driving thought that Lynn idea might not work in my tank with average humidity of 75 - am i right?

 Saw exactly same vine, but prettier like in the pics above and the tag said sanded grapevine....Wrong tag?  But i dont think im going to use it here,  it too massive. One big thing ( waterfall) seems to be enough. Unless i somehow glue it in diagonally, but may be it is too heavy to be suspended.

and if you could remind me how to do drainage for background plants that would be awesome.

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## Paul

I jam a straw or pencil or use a drill bit and push it through the foam and into the bottom of the pot. 

Moss vine would still work. It will help keep humidity up as well  :Smile:

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## Lija

That is what i thought  :Smile:  thanks.

Imagining Bill and his "patience, patience, patience", foamed back wall, it is almost dry now few hour later, it is 20% humidity and 80F here  :Smile:  will leave like that over night and going to flip tank over tomorrow morning to cover a bit of sides. Too scared of Bill to do otherwise  :Smile: 

Meanwhile did some vines : siliconed synthetic ropes, covered with coconut fiber and some moss, drying outside now. That is in case Lynns method wont work, or most likely ill be too lazy lol


 Will wait and if they turn out nice will sillicone them in before covering background. This way foam will have 2 days to cure! Hehe.

That is a rope

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## Paul

Keep an eye on the foam after it cures. The black foam doesn't stick to glass very well. More often than not I have to put silicone under it where it comes loose from the glass.

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## Lija

Thanks Paul, didnt know that, but i have mostly normal foam.

 Oh and since Bill is not here and patience is not my strength ..... Figured will finish foaming today.



Looks really ugly at this point. Now i need to wait until it is cured as i want to carve a few spots.

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## Paul

98% of the time the foam is cured enough to move it within a few hours. I wouldn't cut into it or do any covering of it till the foam has had 24 hours or more to breath and dry. 

I have had walls collapse after moving to soon and I have had everything turn out perfect. Now just as a general rule I won't move my tanks for 24 hours per side just to keep from having to clean a mess up lol.

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## Lija

Right... Lets hope nothing collapses  :Smile:  and i wont be touching it tomorrow at all. 

 When carving any special way to cover it up from the inside? Or just let it be and cover visible parts?

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## bill

Tsk tsk. Patience, patience, patience.. Looks great so far Lija  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Ummmmm dont think i have enough patience not to carry on with the thing today. It is very hot and very dry here and nothing fell over night  :Smile: 

 question- can i test my waterfall at this stage? Because if smth need adjusting i can do it and then cover everything up

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## bill

Sure. Knock yourself out  :Smile:  let us know how the test goes 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

The test went..... Well im just glad i did it now  :Smile:  it was leaking in a few areas, otherwise it works. Did minimal setting of water flow on a pump, it is still too fast for my liking, but will do i guess.
so now i gotta waterproof some areas, add more foam to the others.  While waiting, ripped apart nasutas tank and very much happy about.  :Smile:  

 question. The area has to be completely dry to apply foam, right?

 Another q. I need to waterproof water way on the waterfall, im going to spray some foam, but i have to put silicone on a cork.
so q is if i mess up and it will be still leaking after silicone what should i do then? You cant exactly scrape it off the cork.

 And one more - after applying foam and silicone i need to wait for 24h to run another test and if all works well i can cover background the next day after the whole thing is dry. Yes? Or no?

anyhow advise needed  :Smile:  pls  :Smile:

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## Paul

Yes the area needs to be dry prior to foaming

Cork and silicone - go over board on the silicone on your first pass. It it leaks try to patch it from the outside of the waterfall? Or live with the leak  :Smile: 


Covering - depends on what you are covering the background with. If you are using Titebond 3 than it doesn't need to be 100% dry to start. Though the drier it is the faster the glue cures. Also with the glue. You can do several thin coats faster than you can do 2 thick coats. Thin coats are totally dry in 24 hours. Thick coats I have seen take up to a week to fully dry. Silicone - the area will need to be 100% dry. 


Are you pressing something over the glue or silicone? Peat, coco fiber, anything? If so keep in mind any bit of water that gets on it will slowly wick it's way across your background. If you are going to press anything into the top cover layer I would leave the area around the waterfall clear and cover that space with moss.

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## Carlos

Water, water, go this way... not that way, this way... I SAID THIS WAY  :Mad:  !!!  Whatever  :Big Grin:  !

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## Lija

We shall see lol usually im good at convincing things  do my way lol i have a plan and back up plan  :Smile:  and if both dont work oh well  :Smile: 

 another q. It seems titebond 3 is not available here, unless i order. I dont have patience to wait for couple + weeks. So what titebond can be substituted with?
im not exactly sure i want to do sillicone.

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## Lija

> Are you pressing something over the glue or silicone? Peat, coco fiber, anything? If so keep in mind any bit of water that gets on it will slowly wick it's way across your background. If you are going to press anything into the top cover layer I would leave the area around the waterfall clear and cover that space with moss.



This needs to be clarified for challenged people who doesnt speak tanks. Yet  :Wink: 
what does this mean exactly.?

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## bill

> We shall see lol usually im good at convincing things  do my way lol i have a plan and back up plan  and if both dont work oh well 
> 
>  another q. It seems titebond 3 is not available here, unless i order. I dont have patience to wait for couple + weeks. So what titebond can be substituted with?
> im not exactly sure i want to do sillicone.


You can use gorilla glue (really messy and nasty) or Elmer's wood glue. 



Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

That one? "Probond Max" Wood Glue | RONA

 found titebond, of course same store that is far and used to have black foam. i think ill just go and get it, 
q - what size if the bottle do i need to cover area of my tank. 947ml? Home Hardware - Titebond

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## bill

The probond would work fine. I have no freaking clue how much 947ml is (whacko metric people!!), but I would buy 2 small bottles to start with. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Paul

I bought 1 of the bigger bottles back 4 tanks ago and still have some left in it. lol and wtf is a ml? :P

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## Lija

Lol the majority of people in a world use metric system, that makes non metric people whacko, not the other way around   :Wink: 

 that bottle is about a quarter of a gallon - yay? Oh no?

 Paul i love measurement of how many tanks ago  :Wink: .

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## Carlos

Gentlemen... a milliliter is one thousand of a liter  :Big Grin:  !  So that 947ml bottle is almost a liter and the next one up is a gallon or 4x as much.  Think next one up is a 5 gallon pail and that one is a bit of an exaggeration for our needs  :EEK!:  .  Lija, I get them by liter bottle; but my source is 5 min. drive away.  If planning to build more tanks or redo others, that gallon bottle might be the way to go.  Good luck  :Smile:  !

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## Lija

Thank you Carlos! Glad there is somebody to teach these two lol 
 i will get a that 1l bottle then, i just need it for my current tank. Anything bigger would be admitting im screwed and am planning on other builds lol which i am not.... Not at all...  :Wink:

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## Lija

Oh the q - will titebond adhere to already done silicone/coco background to fix if needed?

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## Paul

If there is exposed silicone it will not stick to it. 

You may want to get 2 bottles of it. You will most likely end up needing more to cover up spots that are a bit thin after the first coat.

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## Lija

progress report for today :
-annoyed Bill as a result got more plants - anubias lanceolata and xmas moss ( or was it star moss? dont remember.)
- annoyed Bill some more and got elmers glue, cos titebond they can get in only by the end of next week, and im sure i'll due if i wait lol
- used up the last can of black foam fixing ( trying) waterfalls in both tanks nasuta and this new one.
- grabbed some wine  :Wink:  gotta enjoy a few last days of vacation  :Wink:

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## bill

I've really gotta close that Facebook account lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Bill, nowhere to hide from me lol just sayn  :Wink: 

plan for today to test waterfalls in both tanks and cover background if time permits and if dry enough.

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## bill

Yay!!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Ok people major problem here, im putting everything on hold for now. It is possible the tank is leaking. It was with water for 2 days and i see quite a bit now around the edges. It wasnt here yesterday, so it is also possible it splashed today from connector ( i saw it). Right now im draining it, checking the bottom, drying everything, filling it up again to test it for leaks again. Damn it i should have done it before i started everything. 

Anyhow. If it is leaking how to waterproof it now? I can silicone it from outside around the bottom and edges. Yes? No? Any other ideas?

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## bill

No. The internal silicone would need to be removed and reapplied. Silicone on the outside would hold it for a little while, but it's only a band aid. Eventually water will seep behind that silicone and leak. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

How to remove internal sillicone?

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## bill

Razor blade. Slice it off. You won't be able to get the stuff between the glass, inside the seam, but a new bead should hold it. The downside is, you may have to reseal the entire tank since silicone won't bind to silicone. I would make sure it's leaking first, then if it is, call your tank builder and express your displeasure nicely (flies and honey darlin  :Wink:  ) and see what he'll do for you. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Paul

ugh that sucks! Yeah I would do what you are doing. Drain, Dry the outside and then refill and watch it. Sometimes water can run down the glass and into the frame on the bottom then when weight is added to the tank the glass presses on the frame and squeezes water out. Hope it isn't a leak.

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## Lija

Yeah, im gonna call the tank builder, just not sure i'm able to express it with honey lol

 yep, decided not to wait/test/whatever, have a long history with murphy laws, so, ripped all bottom, taking silicone out right now. Oh well it is what it is. Lesson learned - water test first even a new tank. Funny part i was always doing it before, one time i skipped it out of excitement and here you go. 

 On a bright side - nasuta tank can be finished off  :Smile:

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## Paul

See glass half full and learned something new

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## bill

Update update update!!!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Paul

Someone is up past his bedtime!

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## Lija

Ok update lol
 as you know i scraped all silicone from inside up to higher then water level can possibly be, then put more silicone then i probably should have, after waited for it to dry out and filled tank with water, higher then water level will be.

 Right now, 48 hours after it is NoT leaking, meaning with your help i finally did smth right!  
so i just took all water out, wait a little bit to it to dry and then full on with false bottom and the foam!

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## bill

Yay!!!!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Paul

Awesome! Glad the leak test passed this time!

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## Lija

Here you go  :Smile:   all seems to be good so far....

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## Lija

First layer is done!

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## bill

Looks great so far!!!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Paul

Looking good Lija! Moving right along now  :Smile:

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## Lija

That is how it looked 24h after.


 I didnt like too much of ugly stuff showing, so for the next layer added more black for one part and more brown for the other part
That is a back "paint"


That is how everything looked after the second layer is done.


Waiting game again  :Frown:

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## bill

It's looking good Lija! Building a Viv is like going to the ER, hurry up and wait lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

24 hours later


The last layer of glue/paint with pressed coco fiber, had to mix different paints, hope it will turn out ok. 


Result


 Now i will leave it be until tomorrow night, check on it if dry, will change the position of a tank and carry on covering other parts i couldnt reach today.
Most likely i will let it sit for 48 h and do it on monday.

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## bill

You sure this is your first big build? It is looking awesome!!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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Lija

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## Lija

Bill technically it is second and you know i had a great teachers  :Smile:

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## Paul

Looking good Lija! Very impressed!

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## Paul

All this time and no more updates!!! Oh man what gives! We want more pictures! :P

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## Strider18

> I bought 1 of the bigger bottles back 4 tanks ago and still have some left in it. lol and wtf is a ml? :P


Man what had this world come to???:what: It is a requirement to learn the metric system in school nowadays :banghead:

Any updates though?  :Smile: 

0.1.0 Psuedacris regilla

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## Lija

:Embarrassment:  Okay, okay...

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## Lija

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## Strider18

It looks amazing!!! Nice froggy pics  :Smile: 

0.1.0 Psuedacris regilla

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Lija

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## Lija

Thank you  :Smile:  all credit shall go to Bill and Paul.... For being patient with me and helping so much! Thank you guys again!  :Heart: 
These frogs are very entertaining, they talk to each other, very cool. Boys call, but all of them produce noises that are def means of communication. They also sometimes sleep under water with only nose barely sticking out

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## Amy

It looks beautiful, Lija!!  Your frogs are so super adorable too <3

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Lija

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## Strider18

Who doesn't want sleep underwater?  :Stick Out Tongue: 

0.1.0 Psuedacris regilla

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## Paul

I love it Lija! You did an excellent job! Now you need to start a thread for your Azureus Tank!

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