# General Topics > General Discussion & News >  Substrate question .. Cannot get tree fern fibre or Orchid bark

## bucknetbucky

Hello,

So I am going to be putting together an 18X18X24 enclosure to house 3 PDF's. I have been trying for about 2 weeks to find the stuff to make ABG mix but cannot seem to find tree fern fibre or orchid bark anywhere other than online and the shipping is rediculous. I am in Soutwestern Ontario Canada. I may be over analyzing this whole thing but I do not want to harm the frogs when they get in there but also want to make sure the plants have what they need with regards to proper soil.

This leads me to my questions ...

1. Can the tree fern fiber and orchid bark be substituted with other things and if so what?

2. What brand of Peat should I be looking for? Anyone have a particular one they have been using?

3. Is there any other soil that you have used bought straight from the store or green house that is PDF safe?

I am sure this has been asked before but I cannot seem to find a good solid answer other than to use ABG mix which would be great but it is looking grim in these parts. Thank You for taking the time to help.

Kevin

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## bill

Tree fern fiber can be replaced with fir bark. You can use orchid potting mix in replacement of orchid bark. 

Peat moss brands vary, just avoid any that have fertilizers in them. 

Other soils have been tried and failed. Potting soils compact and restrict drainage. Some hydroponics soils drain well, but had added items like vermiculite and perlite in them, which even small frogs can ingest and become impacted. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

You won't find tree fern or abg mix in Canada lol have been exactly where you are right now not that long ago.

Look for places that sell orchid supplies, greenhouses, places like that, I doubt there is a problem with that in ontario. 

Thats my canada friendly soil mix:
2 parts of crushed charcoal
1 part of peat moss
1 part of sphagnum moss 
1 part of that organic miracle gro soil ( Home Depot, orange bag)
2 parts of fir bark (orchid supply stores or I think I got Exo terra forest bark the last time)


The proportions are approximate, I just mix it all and see how it looks, sometimes add more of one or another  :Smile:

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## bucknetbucky

> You won't find tree fern or abg mix in Canada lol have been exactly where you are right now not that long ago.
> 
> Look for places that sell orchid supplies, greenhouses, places like that, I doubt there is a problem with that in ontario. 
> 
> Thats my canada friendly soil mix:
> 2 parts of crushed charcoal
> 1 part of peat moss
> 1 part of sphagnum moss 
> 1 part of that organic miracle gro soil ( Home Depot, orange bag)
> ...


You just made my day!!! I know I can get all of that stuff local so off I go to shop and pick up what I need :-)

This has to be the best board ever!!!!

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## bucknetbucky

Well I went and got all the stuff I needed on the list. I know am going to actually mix the stuff but have one question about the charcoal .... How big should the peices be and is it actually mixed in or used as the bottom layer?

Thanks for all the help.

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## Brian

"Fine or medium" are the usual given grades for the charcoal, and mixed in with the substrate not a separate layer. 

I use the lump charcoal for the bbq from Home Depot and hammer it to be pretty fine. If you go the "smash your own route" make sure the stuff you get contains only charcoal (no lighter fluid, Duraflame makes something suitable) and do the smashing outdoors and with the charcoal in a bag to contain the dust, this is messy.

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## bucknetbucky

> "Fine or medium" are the usual given grades for the charcoal, and mixed in with the substrate not a separate layer. 
> 
> I use the lump charcoal for the bbq from Home Depot and hammer it to be pretty fine. If you go the "smash your own route" make sure the stuff you get contains only charcoal (no lighter fluid, Duraflame makes something suitable) and do the smashing outdoors and with the charcoal in a bag to contain the dust, this is messy.


That's what I needed to know .. I guess I have some more smashing to do lol. I have already mixed the other contents and I have to say that the mixture feels, smells and looks great.

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## Carlos

An idea for the lump charcoal smashing if you have access to big tire truck or 4x4.  Get a new cheap pillow case; fill around 1/3-1/2 full and tie end.  Drive slowly back and forth over it on hard concrete surface until charcoal is ground to desired fineness.  Repeat as required for rest of lumps and throw pillow afterwards on trash (it will be ruined)  :Big Grin:  .

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## bill

> An idea for the lump charcoal smashing if you have access to big tire truck or 4x4.  Get a new cheap pillow case; fill around 1/3-1/2 full and tie end.  Drive slowly back and forth over it on hard concrete surface until charcoal is ground to desired fineness.  Repeat as required for rest of lumps and throw pillow afterwards on trash (it will be ruined)  .


LOVE THIS IDEA!!

of course, you could just use activated carbon for aquariums and save yourself a lot of effort lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Tongue Flicker

> LOVE THIS IDEA!!
> 
> of course, you could just use activated carbon for aquariums and save yourself a lot of effort lol
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


Not to mention gas lol..

@lija love that 'canada friendly' soil mix haha

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## tjt263

I'm thinking of trying the same thing with she-oak (Casuarina/Allocasuarina spp.) branchlets/cladodes.

Basically, they're like droopy, segmented pine needles that dry up, go brown and fall apart into semi-woody (yet kind of pulpy) little pieces.

In nature, they often litter the ground and end up becoming like a thick matt that kind of prevents other plants from growing underneath. But I think it could be a useful component in a composite mix of other ingredients; like charcoal, peat, moss, coir, bark, sand, perlite, vermiculite, etc.




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