# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  Tank humidity help

## josh

Hello all. I recently built a new terrarium and it lookamazing! The only issue is that it stays at 99% humidity all the time. I have a bunch of live plants, a waterfall, and a water dish in there. The top of the cage is all glass. Except for the last few inches which are plastic with holes drilled in it. I have tree frogs and leopard frogs in their. The coco fiber substrate seems very dry and the frogs don't seem effected at all. Is there really any issue?

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## Cory

Hi, I don't own treefrogs but I read a lot of the threads to learn as much as I can because in the future I would love to own some and from what I understand you need to open the top up somehow and get more air flow in there. The humidity is way to high I think for tree frogs it should only be around 50 to 60%. And having it that high could make your froggies sick I believe but I will let someone more experienced with tree frogs chime in on that one. And it is very frowned upon to mix to spieces of frogs together.

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## Frogger00

I think your hygrometer may be broken. The coco is dry but the humidity is at 99%? That doesn't seem right. I personally don't use a hygrometer, I mist a couple times a day and they thrive. 


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## Cory

Another thing I just thought of after frogger00 mentioned that your hygrometer might be broken is when your misting if you get abit water on those digital ones you will have a lot higher reading then it actually is. I found this out one day while misting my pacman frog, as soon as I dried it off the reading slowly went down.

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## Josh

I'm kind of like Frogger on the whole humidity thing. I do have a hygrometer (NatGeo brand), but I don't totally trust it. Usually I can tell from the plants and even the frog coloring (Hyla cinerea) what the humidity is at. Bill is a master at it, I do believe he whispers to the plants and they whisper back  :Wink:

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## Cory

Bill is the plant whisperer, it will be new show on nat geo and it will come on after the dog whisperer. L.O.L

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## Paul

Couple of things. 

1. The top of the tank needs to be vented (roughly 80% vented) for tree frogs.
2. Looks to me like your hydrometer is reading incorrectly. At 99% you would have condensation on everything including the glass.
3. What kind of wood is that? If it is a piece of Grapevine than it will need to be removed sooner rather than later. It will mold quickly (a black/grey mold that is very dangerous).
4. Your substrate will not sustain plants long term. Should consider replacing it with something similar to ABG Mix (or ABG mix itself)
5. The Vivarium really should be taller for tree frogs. They want to climb and really do best in enclosures that are a minimum of 24" tall. I am not saying they won't survive in there, but they would appreciate more room
6. Mixing species is frowned upon. I am not going to lecture you, but be careful. You could end up loosing some or all of your frogs. 
7. The lighting can also dry the air out quickly depending on what you use. You didn't mention that but if you want to know more please post the types of bulbs you are using. 

Sorry to be full of criticisms. A few tweaks and you will have a great stable home for your frogs  :Smile:  .

Paul

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## bill

Water in the probe. There is zero possibility of that tank running at 99% humidity.  

That's about all I can add that hasn't been said above. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## josh

> Another thing I just thought of after frogger00 mentioned that your hygrometer might be broken is when your misting if you get abit water on those digital ones you will have a lot higher reading then it actually is. I found this out one day while misting my pacman frog, as soon as I dried it off the reading slowly went down.



This could very well be what is happening. Now I'm at 90%

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## josh

> Couple of things. 
> 
> 1. The top of the tank needs to be vented (roughly 80% vented) for tree frogs.
> 2. Looks to me like your hydrometer is reading incorrectly. At 99% you would have condensation on everything including the glass.
> 3. What kind of wood is that? If it is a piece of Grapevine than it will need to be removed sooner rather than later. It will mold quickly (a black/grey mold that is very dangerous).
> 4. Your substrate will not sustain plants long term. Should consider replacing it with something similar to ABG Mix (or ABG mix itself)
> 5. The Vivarium really should be taller for tree frogs. They want to climb and really do best in enclosures that are a minimum of 24" tall. I am not saying they won't survive in there, but they would appreciate more room
> 6. Mixing species is frowned upon. I am not going to lecture you, but be careful. You could end up loosing some or all of your frogs. 
> 7. The lighting can also dry the air out quickly depending on what you use. You didn't mention that but if you want to know more please post the types of bulbs you are using. 
> ...


Dear Paul, 
I really appreciate all the feedback form you. I would like to adress each issue I am presented with.
1. I got the idea of the glass top from my reptile shop. They also keep their tree frogs in cages like mine with a glass top and screen back. They said that this is ok as long as you have an ecosystem in their. For example they said that the plants will produce oxygen for the tree frogs and take in the carbon dioxide.

2. In the morning there is condensation on the glass. But that goes away after a while. There is still a pocibility of water inside the hydromometer.  Or it may be broken.

3. I believe that the wood is more of a driftwood but I will check And remove if necessary. 

4. My substrate is gardening/potting soil. Then there is an inch of coco fiber. The roots are in the soil. If that doesn't support plants I don't know what will 

5.They have about 20 inches of climbing space. Not much I can do about that. Mine like to. Stay on the leafs most of the time. I wish they had a few more inches but this is a 1500$ tank. Not changing.

6. I know that mixing species may not be the best idea but I have had these guys for over 5 years. All have been reported healthy. But know of anything were to go downhill I would change them to separate cages.

7. This cage has a Big long led light that goes all across the length of the cage. The cage is also close to a window. My plants have thrived In my previous cage so  I'm not to worried about that. 

I appreciate everything that you said and am not disagreeing with anything you said. I'm just saying where I come from. Thanks

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## josh

I agree. I have had these guys in a different cage with out a humidifier for years. Misting each day and I have a humidifier. I just bought one to check.

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## irThumper

> Dear Paul, 
> I really appreciate all the feedback form you. I would like to adress each issue I am presented with.
> 1. I got the idea of the glass top from my reptile shop. They also keep their tree frogs in cages like mine with a glass top and screen back. They said that this is ok as long as you have an ecosystem in their. For example they said that the plants will produce oxygen for the tree frogs and take in the carbon dioxide.
> 
> 2. In the morning there is condensation on the glass. But that goes away after a while. There is still a pocibility of water inside the hydromometer.  Or it may be broken.
> 
> 3. I believe that the wood is more of a driftwood but I will check And remove if necessary. 
> 
> >>>>4. My substrate is gardening/potting soil.<<<< Then there is an inch of coco fiber. The roots are in the soil. If that doesn't support plants I don't know what will ��
> ...


--Is that potting/garden soil organic/free of chemical fertilizers?

--You said you had leopard frogs in with tree frogs, what kind of tree frogs? Leopard frogs and tree frogs have totally different needs.

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## josh

Yes it is. I made sure i got organic Nothing added. I have seen the requirements for both types. I have whites tree frogs and green tree frogs.  They have plenty of trees and humidity. I rescued the leopard frogs from a soccer feild staircase that was being cemented under and they have all the water and hiding paces they could want. Any recomendations though?

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## josh

> --Is that potting/garden soil organic/free of chemical fertilizers?
> 
> --You said you had leopard frogs in with tree frogs, what kind of tree frogs? Leopard frogs and tree frogs have totally different needs.


Yes it is. I made sure i got organic Nothing added. I have seen the requirements for both types. I have whites tree frogs and green tree frogs. They have plenty of trees and humidity. I rescued the leopard frogs from a soccer feild staircase that was being cemented under and they have all the water and hiding paces they could want. Any recomendations though?

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## irThumper

> Yes it is. I made sure i got organic Nothing added. I have seen the requirements for both types. I have whites tree frogs and green tree frogs. They have plenty of trees and humidity. I rescued the leopard frogs from a soccer feild staircase that was being cemented under and they have all the water and hiding paces they could want. Any recomendations though?


Wild caught leopard frogs.....? You've had them how long now? Ever had them fecal tested? You are putting your tree frogs at HIGH risk by housing them together with wild caught frogs, either for intestinal parasites or possibly even chytrid, which is becoming more rampant in wild frog populations.  :Frown: 

Aside from that, if your WTFs are considerably larger than your AGTFs you are looking at a risk of the White's trying to eat your little guys.

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## irThumper

> Yes it is. I made sure i got organic Nothing added. I have seen the requirements for both types. I have whites tree frogs and green tree frogs. They have plenty of trees and humidity. I rescued the leopard frogs from a soccer feild staircase that was being cemented under and they have all the water and hiding paces they could want. Any recomendations though?


In amphibiandom safe is always much much better than sorry!

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## josh

> Wild caught leopard frogs.....? You've had them how long now? Ever had them fecal tested? You are putting your tree frogs at HIGH risk by housing them together with wild caught frogs, either for intestinal parasites or possibly even chytrid, which is becoming more rampant in wild frog populations. 
> 
> Aside from that, if your WTFs are considerably larger than your AGTFs you are looking at a risk of the White's trying to eat your little guys.


I see what you are saying. I am willing to get rid of the lepoard frogs. But let me ask you one thing. I have had them together since last summer and all my frogs seem to be healthy, (eating often, pooping often, always croaking)   Is their still a chance of them getting sick? wouldn't i have seen some sign of something by now? With the whites and greens, they are about the same size. Except that the whites are fatter! They are very docile and sometimes have trouble getting crickets because of their size!! Iv had them together for a while and they are always hanging out together. I keep them well fed. Do you see any issues that still may occur? Im not disagreeing with you on any point and totaly respect your opinion, im just letting you know my side! What do you think of the humidity though? i have an ''exhost fan'' on now and im at 86%. All seem happy, what do you think?

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## irThumper

> I see what you are saying. I am willing to get rid of the lepoard frogs. But let me ask you one thing. I have had them together since last summer and all my frogs seem to be healthy, (eating often, pooping often, always croaking)   Is their still a chance of them getting sick? wouldn't i have seen some sign of something by now? With the whites and greens, they are about the same size. Except that the whites are fatter! They are very docile and sometimes have trouble getting crickets because of their size!! Iv had them together for a while and they are always hanging out together. I keep them well fed. Do you see any issues that still may occur? Im not disagreeing with you on any point and totaly respect your opinion, im just letting you know my side! What do you think of the humidity though? i have an ''exhost fan'' on now and im at 86%. All seem happy, what do you think?


You've had the leopard frogs in with them since last summer 2014? And you've had the tree frogs together 5 years? If the WTFs and AGTFs have been together that long then I don't see any reason to separate those at this point, but there are diseases which have been known to take months to complete a life cycle and then just "show up out of the blue" (still researching parasitology) and wipe out an entire collection...

I believe a similar scenario was posted on FF from a WTF keeper with that exact same scenario. He had introduced a new, apparantly healthy female to his long time collection, and months later he lost his entire collection of WTFs he'd had for years  :Frown: 

Can't say with the humidity other than you either need more ventilation or a different gauge, but if the fan is working then maybe you've solved that problem?

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## josh

> You've had the leopard frogs in with them since last summer 2014? And you've had the tree frogs together 5 years? If the WTFs and AGTFs have been together that long then I don't see any reason to separate those at this point, but there are diseases which have been known to take months to complete a life cycle and then just "show up out of the blue" (still researching parasitology) and wipe out an entire collection...
> 
> I believe a similar scenario was posted on FF from a WTF keeper with that exact same scenario. He had introduced a new, apparantly healthy female to his long time collection, and months later he lost his entire collection of WTFs he'd had for years


I see what you are saying and am always closley watching them. I recently reveiwed the care sheets of all my frogs and my cage meets and excells their individual needs. Any other advice that you think would help me about the humidity, or other frog questions?

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## irThumper

> Can't say with the humidity other than you either need more ventilation or a different gauge, but if the fan is working then maybe you've solved that problem?


I'd edited my above post to include this ^^

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## irThumper

I re-read the original post... if your substrate is super dry then I'd say high humidity is definitely not the issue.

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## josh

> I re-read the original post... if your substrate is super dry then I'd say high humidity is definitely not the issue.


Ok, ill keep an eye on it though. Thanks for your help. let me know of any other questions!

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## Cris

What's the size difference between the whites and the other frogs? Since whites get much bigger than your other species (and they do eat smaller frogs), I would worry that your other frogs will eventually become a meal if they're housed together. 

When end you say you can get rid of the leopard frogs, do you mean rehome them or release them? Even though the frogs are originally wild caught it isn't a good practice to release them after keeping them in captivity. They could have been exposed to pathogens or parasites while they were with your other frogs that they will then introduce to the native frog population if released.

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irThumper

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## Paul

> Dear Paul, 
> I really appreciate all the feedback form you. I would like to adress each issue I am presented with.
> 1. I got the idea of the glass top from my reptile shop. They also keep their tree frogs in cages like mine with a glass top and screen back. They said that this is ok as long as you have an ecosystem in their. For example they said that the plants will produce oxygen for the tree frogs and take in the carbon dioxide.
> 
> 2. In the morning there is condensation on the glass. But that goes away after a while. There is still a pocibility of water inside the hydromometer.  Or it may be broken.
> 
> 3. I believe that the wood is more of a driftwood but I will check And remove if necessary. 
> 
> 4. My substrate is gardening/potting soil. Then there is an inch of coco fiber. The roots are in the soil. If that doesn't support plants I don't know what will 
> ...


Excellent. 

Only thing I disagree with from your answers is the advice from the reptile store. Very rarely do pet stores keep their pets in proper conditions unfortunately. Though if they have been in the tank like that for 5 years it doesn't seem to be hurting them any. 

If you remove your Hydrometer probe and let it dry out it might return to normal operation.

Do you have leaf liter? Adding a thing layer will help with humidity some.  

Hope that wood isn't grapevine. It looks great in the tank.

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## Lija

I opened a thread a few times, didnt respond.... Now I opened again.... Usually I yell a lot... Im mean lol especially when we talk about what you did here, mixing species, mixing WC and CB.. But im not in yelling mode today...

The thing is im pretty sure you won't want to do anything that would involve moving, changing things drastically. And I kinda understand, you spend a lot of $ on it and it looks good....

A few things I'll just say before im out of here.
-too high humidity, not enough ventilation = respiratory problems
-wc+cb even after long term qt is a bad bad idea, without qt it's a nightmare = parasites,  possibly rana, chytrid, much more, all WC frogs have a very heavy load of parasites, so your whites have bunch of those by now too.
-the wood does look like grapevine...
- im yet to see a pet store where people are actually know what they are doing  :Smile: 
- with my limited experience with planted vivariums... I was told that using just soil is bad on a long run, you need ABG mix type soil, bill or paul can tell you more about it.

realistically there is a way of fixing things here in the existing tank, separating both species, treating both species, completely disinfecting tank, not sure how to increase ventilliation though. Alternatively you can test them first and treat later.

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irThumper

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