# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  Red Eyed Tree Frog - Habitat Questions

## Don

Hi All,
    I have my habitat top substrate as the ESU Jungle Mix and was wondering if I should have a moss layer for him too?  Maybe some leaf liter instead?

    He is slow to acclimating to his new home and only comes out when its really dark and quiet.  As soon as he notices someone near the enclosure hes out of sight and hiding.... guessing he had some incident at the store prior to me obtaining him.

He has a ton of hiding places so its sometimes impossible to find him but thats what hiding places are for. 


Thanks for any replies.

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## Tony

I use a top dressing of long fiber sphagnum moss to prevent small soil particles from sticking to the frogs. I have not used leaf litter with tree frogs but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work except that it may offer too many hiding spots for feeder insects.

He will probably become bolder as he settles in to his new home, my red eyes do not seem to be bothered by my presence and I have several well established males who consistently wake up and start calling about 30 minutes before the lights go out.

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## bshmerlie

Your tank as you describe it sounds perfect. He should be Able to completely hide from you if he wants. Just give him time. My tank is like a thick jungle and all of my red eyes could completely hide from me if they wanted to that makes them feel secure. Now they spend all of their time out in the front watching me. When I got my first red eye he did the same thing as yours and I started to wonder why I even got him. But over time he got use to me and realized I was the cricket God and now he doesn't mind anything that I do even inside his cage.  You've got to understand that in the wild frogs are always afraid of being dinner.  So when they see some animal (like you) they hide.  But soon he will realize that you're not a threat.  So keep the cover as you have it.  Keep him in a location in the house that is quiet and completely dark as you said and I guarantee you he will relax.   Just give him time.  Soon enough he will be front and center for you to enjoy. Try a cricket bowl so he can find the crickets and they don't get lost. My cricket bowl is up front and i often have many of them hovering on the branches above waiting for me to drop in crickets.  Over time you wont have to go searching for him he'll be sitting on a leaf watching you.

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## John911

> I use a top dressing of long fiber sphagnum moss to prevent small soil particles from sticking to the frogs. I have not used leaf litter with tree frogs but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work except that it may offer too many hiding spots for feeder insects.
> 
> He will probably become bolder as he settles in to his new home, my red eyes do not seem to be bothered by my presence and I have several well established males who consistently wake up and start calling about 30 minutes before the lights go out.


 
Beautiful pics and frogs as always.  Would you be able to post pics of the full habitat?  Trying to set one up for them.

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## Tony

> Beautiful pics and frogs as always.  Would you be able to post pics of the full habitat?  Trying to set one up for them.


Thanks John. Here is a full viv shot:

 you go:

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## John911

Tony, do you even use a background on something like that or is it almost all plants?

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## Tony

> Tony, do you even use a background on something like that or is it almost all plants?


The original exo terra background is in there but has been taken over by pothos vines.

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## John911

> The original exo terra background is in there but has been taken over by pothos vines.


Is that the 24x18x18?  How many do you keep in there?

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## Tony

> Is that the 24x18x18?  How many do you keep in there?


18 x 18 x 24, and I think there are seven frogs in it. I shuffled them around a bit during breeding and don't remember exactly how many went back in there.

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## Don

Wow, thanks for the responses.  I stopped by a local landscaping place and picked up some live plants to put in since the plastic ones are pretty flimsy.  That will be tomorrows job while he sleeps behind the cork round he has taken too.

I did change out the moss in my Whites viv since I thought I saw some black dot specks that worried me.  I came to find a worm in the soil, and the specks were only the coco bottom layer working its way through the moss.

Man thats a nice viv.  I did the Exo 18 x 18 x 18.

Cheri,  thanks for the reply too.  I guess I'm just impatient and want to see he is doing well.  :-)

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## Don

Do any of your Red Eyes use the water dish/bowl?

My plans for today are to add some live plants so I picked up some plantation soil to add some filler as I place the plants.
I'll add some areas of the New Zealand Moss I picked up to some areas while modifying the enclosure.

He was out some this morning and aas the sun hit the glass he decided to go back into hiding.  Good signs for me :-)

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## bshmerlie

> Do any of your Red Eyes use the water dish/bowl?


My tank is 36x24x18 and I have a waterfall that goes onto a pond section that takes up about 1/3 of my tank and all frogs tend to spend the majority of their time on that side of the tank. The water is not that deep because I have flat stones in it so they can just sit there and it doesn't go above their chins.  They love the water. If they're not sitting in it theyre  sitting in branches or vines above it. Do you need to have a large water section? No.  I'm just telling you that my five red eyes like it. I originally only had it this size to help with humidity as I live in So Cal and it can get really dry here in the summer. But now that. I've noticed they all spend so much time on that side of the tank I was thinking of expanding it next summer. Water bowls are perfectly fine and you definately should have them. Change the water every day.

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## Tony

Mine soak pretty much every night, especially now that it is the dry season and I am no longer misting.

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## Don

> My tank is 36x24x18 and I have a waterfall that goes onto a pond section that takes up about 1/3 of my tank and all frogs tend to spend the majority of their time on that side of the tank.


I started the Viv with a waterfall from Zoo Med but after the first night it had a humming from the transformer that definitely made hearing it intolerable.  I removed it and Zoo Med is going to replace the pump since everything is clean and the hum is from the transformer itself.  Sucked to have to pull the whole corner section out to remove it.

I'll keep a water dish up front.  I'll also try to get pics once I finish putting the new plants in today :-)

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## Don

> I'll also try to get pics once I finish putting the new plants in today :-)


Added a few plants and topped off with plantation soil.  Also added a small area of New Zealand Moss to start.

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## Don

> My tank is 36x24x18 and I have a waterfall that goes onto a pond section that takes up about 1/3 of my tank and all frogs tend to spend the majority of their time on that side of the tank. The water is not that deep because I have flat stones in it so they can just sit there and it doesn't go above their chins.  They love the water. If they're not sitting in it theyre  sitting in branches or vines above it. Do you need to have a large water section? No.  I'm just telling you that my five red eyes like it. I originally only had it this size to help with humidity as I live in So Cal and it can get really dry here in the summer. But now that. I've noticed they all spend so much time on that side of the tank I was thinking of expanding it next summer. Water bowls are perfectly fine and you definately should have them. Change the water every day.



Its been over three weeks and so far we only see this little guy about 12pm through maybe 6am then then hes gone back into hiding.  He is not looking any skinnier so hes eating the crickets but hasn't once been in the water dish or even exploring the front of the enclosure.

Poor guy must have been traumatized at the pet store before I picked him up.
All I can think here.  I was hoping by now he would at least start to become more use to the nice environment he has moved into.   Maybe missing a mate? hmmmmm

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## bshmerlie

Some frogs wake up at different times. 6 hours a night is obviously working for him. He will become more bold with time. I have also found if you want more "frog time" for your enjoyment ...get more frogs. That way you always have one of them moving around.

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## kiwibaby

> My tank is 36x24x18 and I have a waterfall that goes onto a pond section that takes up about 1/3 of my tank and all frogs tend to spend the majority of their time on that side of the tank. The water is not that deep because I have flat stones in it so they can just sit there and it doesn't go above their chins.  They love the water. If they're not sitting in it theyre  sitting in branches or vines above it. Do you need to have a large water section? No.  I'm just telling you that my five red eyes like it. I originally only had it this size to help with humidity as I live in So Cal and it can get really dry here in the summer. But now that. I've noticed they all spend so much time on that side of the tank I was thinking of expanding it next summer. Water bowls are perfectly fine and you definately should have them. Change the water every day.


It's good to hear that waterfalls/ponds work well with red eyes because this is something I have always wanted to do. Do you have pictures of your set up on here? I live in southern AZ so I know about the need for extra humidity in the dry seasons too. For me, I used a terrarium moss top layer and if it was extra dry I would add some sphagnum moss and those would keep the humidity up nicely.

Maybe your frog is just of the shyer type? I remember when I first got mine one was fairly shy and had a tendency to hide while the other was extremely friendly and would crawl all over my hand every time I opened the cage for anything.

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## Don

I'm thinking the add a mate plan would be a great idea but think I need to learn to sex this first to have a pair.  I see the water dish is getting dirty and the crickets disappear so that brings hope.

I ordered some leaf litter from Josh and it should be here Friday.... bought the sea grape leaf and the magnolia leaf.

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## bshmerlie

> It's good to hear that waterfalls/ponds work well with red eyes because this is something I have always wanted to do. Do you have pictures of your set up on here? I live in southern AZ so I know about the need for extra humidity in the dry seasons too.


Photos of my red eye tank are in my photo album although I do need to take a current photo because the pothos has really grown out and now I have vines and branches going into and above the water section. I have flat stones, river rock and many vines in the water so there is no way a frog could drown.  Once a week while theyre sleeping I use a mini wet/ dry vac and suck out all the water and replace it.  They do tend to poop in the water a lot.

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DonLisk

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## kiwibaby

Wow that is a really beautiful habitat! Are those all live plants? I bet they enjoy that a lot. I will definitely need a bigger thank if I want to incorporate a water feature though.

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## Don

> Wow that is a really beautiful habitat! Are those all live plants? I bet they enjoy that a lot. I will definitely need a bigger thank if I want to incorporate a water feature though.


Ditto on the beautiful home your Red Eyes have.  If I had a small enough tent I'd move in :-)

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## Don

Well, I stopped down to Zoo Creatures tonight to pick up a few bags of ESU Forest Mix and they had some new Red Eyes in so we grabbed the little guy at home a friend.

I also removed a large piece of cork flat that was in the enclosure. It was initially put in to use in a waterfall and took up space in front of the foam background supplied with the Exo enclosure.
Still left many hiding places on the back wall and opened up some floor space.

Can't wait for Saturday to redo the Whites Tree Frogs home with the new substrates, leaf litter, and some new landscaping :-)

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## Don

Wow, I love redecorating :-)   Received in the leaf litter from Josh's and grabbed some new plants on the way home from work.  I'll put up some pics once I get a few on the camera.

Are you supposed to soak leaf liter before adding?

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## Tony

> Are you supposed to soak leaf liter before adding?


Nope, just toss it in there.

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## Don

> Nope, just toss it in there.


Thanks Tony,  It seems like I have way too much so I only added a few leafs since setting a water dish on it doesn't seem to flatten it one bit.

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## Don

I added pics to my albums and heres one of them after I remodeled today.

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## Tony

> Thanks Tony,  It seems like I have way too much so I only added a few leafs since setting a water dish on it doesn't seem to flatten it one bit.


It will pack down in time as it absorbs moisture and gets trampled by the frogs.

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## kiwibaby

> I added pics to my albums and heres one of them after I remodeled today.


Beautiful remodel you did there. I love it.

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## Don

> Beautiful remodel you did there. I love it.


Thanks Kiwibaby.

Today I am remodeling my Whites Tree Frog enclosure too.  Should be interesting and hopefully as fun as doing the one pictured above.

I think I have everything in place to get it done except a few larger background pieces. This remodel is being done only due to needing a substrate change.  It will be more open and less live plants.

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## bshmerlie

Why are you getting rid of the live plants?

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## Don

> Why are you getting rid of the live plants?


I probably said that wrong.  The White won't get as much added as this Red Eyes enclosure.  I have some to add but not so full looking.

I'm going to try and create three levels.  One with some live plants that already exist in the setup, going into a higher level with some leaf litter, plantation soil, and structures, then a higher level with the existing bromalaid and the ESU Jungle Mix and some leaf litter.
   I'm heading to the pet shop and plant shop here in a few minutes :-)


                 /^^^^^^^      :-)
____/^^^^^^^

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## bshmerlie

Sounds great...show us some pictures when you are done.

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## Don

> Sounds great...show us some pictures when you are done.


Ok, think I'm all set with the exception of the water dish which has been my nemesis.  Now, I said I was not going crazy with the live plants and only a few but only a few turned into more than a few since the Pothos was pretty big.

The Whites were not too happy coming out for the transformation and one stayed in to watch the show.
To accommodate the large pot holding the Golden Pothos, I used a piece of driftwood with a "Y" and dropped the pot down into the "Y" section in the top corner.

The water dish is suspended (kind of) since it is sitting on the Magnolia leaf litter and needs time to flatten out.  I'll have to figure this out since they seem to prefer the little terracotta cups I have over the big dish.  This worries me since the bigger frog sits on the littlest one and sinks him when in the cup.  I'll need to put up signs with seating arrangements huh?

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## charlamanda

> Added a few plants and topped off with plantation soil. Also added a small area of New Zealand Moss to start.


 I was just reading through your thread, love the frogs, but noticed you have arrow heads in your terrarium. Are you aware they are poisonous plants?  I am not sure if they will affect the frogs, but I wanted you to be aware of it.  It may not cause any problems unless the leaf or stem is damaged and weaps or decays on the bottom, etc.  Please check to make sure this plant will not harm your frog if you plan on keeping it in with your them.
Best of luck.

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## Don

Which plants are the arrow heads..... thanks for the heads up on that.

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## Don

OK, did a quick search on the plants and I did remove the large one for the Red Eyes enclosure so I'll remove the small one too.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.....  I would definitely be heart broken if something happened ue to my ignorance.

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## Tony

> I was just reading through your thread, love the frogs, but noticed you have arrow heads in your terrarium. Are you aware they are poisonous plants?  I am not sure if they will affect the frogs, but I wanted you to be aware of it.  It may not cause any problems unless the leaf or stem is damaged and weaps or decays on the bottom, etc.  Please check to make sure this plant will not harm your frog if you plan on keeping it in with your them.
> Best of luck.


A large number of common vivarium plants are poisonous to some degree, but most are not going to cause problems. Arrowhead plants (Syngonium) are fine, they are common viv plants and I have personally used them for years. Other common toxic plants include pothos, _Monstera_, _Philodendron_, and _Ficus_. The only toxic plant I make a real effort to avoid is _Dieffenbachia_ since the sap is a powerful skin irritant and the plant is delicate enough that frogs are likely to damage it and contact the sap.

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## Don

Thanks Tony.  The Big Arrowhead I already took out when I did over the Viv.  I still have a small one that could be pretty fragile due to its size so I may remove it anyway.

Thanks

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## bshmerlie

I have used Arrow head in my red eye tanks with no ill effect.

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## Don

> I have used Arrow head in my red eye tanks with no ill effect.


I'm trying for the 1st time using the cricket bowl and it works slick.  Although, the 1st frog in had to do his duty in there and I had to clean it and refill it with crickets afterwards.  :-)

Now for a question I am not sure is totally true......
     My Red Eyes walk around in the plantation soil and nothing sticks to them it seems, but my Whites tree frogs are instantly covered  in the coco fiber mixed in the soil... is there a reasonable explanation for this?

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## Balvennie

Hi all,

I have recently finished constructing my new red-eye terrarium, and realise that I could get a lot more critters in there! It's 1.2m long x 1m high and 41cm deep. It has a waterfall, pond, and sculpted background with plenty of plants (and more still to be added). Right now I have only 3 red-eyes, and while I'm planning on getting a few more, I'd like to know if anyone can suggest another species I can safely put in there? I'm open to other treefrogs, toads, small lizards, but not snakes.

This is my first post, but will try to add a photo of the setup. You can also see a (not very good quality) video here: Log in | Facebook

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## Don

Nicely done Belvennie.

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## kiwibaby

> I'm trying for the 1st time using the cricket bowl and it works slick.  Although, the 1st frog in had to do his duty in there and I had to clean it and refill it with crickets afterwards.  :-)


Once again I would like to commend you on your beautiful viv crafting skills. Its giving me inspiration for when I redo my frog's viv once I have some more money. Would you mind taking a picture of your cricket bowl? I keep hearing talk about using cricket bowls but I can't imagine a bowl where the crickets wouldn't just jump right out.

Balvennie, that is also a very beautiful tank! As far as what else to put in there, I always hear not to keep different species of frogs in the same housing to avoid cross-contamination. Red eyes in particular seem to be sensitive and somewhat prone to illness. Maybe one of the more knowledgeable members may know of some safe species they can mix with though?

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## Don

> Would you mind taking a picture of your cricket bowl? I keep hearing talk about using cricket bowls but I can't imagine a bowl where the crickets wouldn't just jump right out.


No problem, its feeding time soon here so here are some pics.

Also included is a picture of some moss I'm hoping someone can ID.  Wondering if its safe for a frog full habitat.  It grows outside my home here in New Hampshire.  Its very soft and seems to spread well.  I have some in a jar to see how well it takes right now.

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## kiwibaby

Thanks for the pics! It seems like the crickets I use would still be able to jump out of there but maybe I'm overestimating their abilities. I think I'll try a feed bowl and see how that works out.
Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with that moss at all. Sorry.

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## Tony

I'm not sure that is even a moss, looks more like a vascular plant to me. Does it have roots? In any case mosses and other plants from temperature climates usually do not do well in a vivarium, without a cold period of dormancy they eventually just die off.

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## Don

The crickets can't get traction unless you use a bowl that is not smooth inside.  I'm just hoping the wife doesn't see I'm using her good stoneware :-)

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## Don

> No problem, its feeding time soon here so here are some pics.
> 
> Also included is a picture of some moss I'm hoping someone can ID.  Wondering if its safe for a frog full habitat.  It grows outside my home here in New Hampshire.  Its very soft and seems to spread well.  I have some in a jar to see how well it takes right now.


I asked what moss but I meant what fern this is...  oops

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## bshmerlie

> Hi all,
> 
> I have recently finished constructing my new red-eye terrarium, and realise that I could get a lot more critters in there! It's 1.2m long x 1m high and 41cm deep. It has a waterfall, pond, and sculpted background with plenty of plants (and more still to be added). Right now I have only 3 red-eyes, and while I'm planning on getting a few more, I'd like to know if anyone can suggest another species I can safely put in there? I'm open to other treefrogs, toads, small lizards, but not snakes.
> 
> This is my first post, but will try to add a photo of the setup. You can also see a (not very good quality) video here: Log in | Facebook


Red Eyes are very prone to stress and would freak out if there is another species in with them. You can get albino or xanthic red eyes if you want to add variety. That way you'll have yellow and green frogs.

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## Don

> Red Eyes are very prone to stress and would freak out if there is another species in with them. You can get albino or xanthic red eyes if you want to add variety. That way you'll have yellow and green frogs.


Exactly.  If you look at my photo albums for my Red Eyes you'll see two very different colors.

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## Balvennie

I like the idea of lutino/albino red-eyes, although I haven't seen them for sale in the UK. What about black-eyed treefrogs, or tiger-legged treefrogs? Are they close enough to not freak out the red-eyes? My other question is, considering the size of my terrarium (1.2m x 1m x 41cm), how many frogs do you think I could comfortably put in there?

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## bshmerlie

> Exactly. If you look at my photo albums for my Red Eyes you'll see two very different colors.


colors and sizes...that's the only way I can keep their names straight. :Smile:

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## Don

> colors and sizes...that's the only way I can keep their names straight.


I noticed a moss that you have wrapped on your vines and such.  What is that and how do you get it to stay attached initially?

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## bshmerlie

It is scraps of sheet moss and it is hot glued to the branches.

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DonLisk

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## Don

> It is scraps of sheet moss and it is hot glued to the branches.


I tried to use some Spanish moss but since the branch is already in place I didn't want to use any glues.

I did add some sheet moss that the local flower shop had for making arrangements.  It looks like knight's plume moss but not sure.
http://www.northernontarioflora.ca/i.../1006485_2.jpg

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## Don

> Some frogs wake up at different times. 6 hours a night is obviously working for him. He will become more bold with time. I have also found if you want more "frog time" for your enjoyment ...get more frogs. That way you always have one of them moving around.



Cheri, right on the money.  Last Thursday we added a new Red Eye and the next night they were buddied up and sleeping heat to butt on the same leaf in the tank... right in view.  They have been that way since and now come out about 10pm.   Thanks for the suggestion... think it made one happy frog.

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## charlamanda

> A large number of common vivarium plants are poisonous to some degree, but most are not going to cause problems. Arrowhead plants (Syngonium) are fine, they are common viv plants and I have personally used them for years. Other common toxic plants include pothos, _Monstera_, _Philodendron_, and _Ficus_. The only toxic plant I make a real effort to avoid is _Dieffenbachia_ since the sap is a powerful skin irritant and the plant is delicate enough that frogs are likely to damage it and contact the sap.


 Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure if it was an problem, but I'd rather mention it and be wrong than to see someones frog die from it, ya know what I mean. I am glad you clarified it, thanks.

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## Don

> Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure if it was an problem, but I'd rather mention it and be wrong than to see someones frog die from it, ya know what I mean. I am glad you clarified it, thanks.


I still took out the biggest arrowhead since I saw that as the one they would have most visited to leaf sit.



As for add some more info on the leaf litter... so far It works great for keeping the frogs from being covered in plantation soil, but, it adds so many places for crickets to hide and never be found.

Even feeing in the bowl, you do lose crickets from the bowl when the frogs sit in the bowl providing traction for the crickets to escape.

I removed some leaf littler, washed it up and dried it out for later use.  I left a small amount to walk on and provide a place to sit the water dish and cricket bowl.

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