# Frogs & Toads > African Bullfrogs >  New species of Pyxicephalus?

## John Clare

There's a fellow on Kingsnake selling these:  


He claims they are a new "breed" of _Pyxicephalus_.  They certainly have the right looks for a species in this genus or a closely related one.  Anyone have any thoughts?

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## Kevin1

Hello John I know this post is a bit old.
But I asked a similar question about these pyxies on another forum.
The guy said that he knew the vendor and the vendor was just lying to get people interested in buying them.
And that it isn't a new subspecies, just adspersus.
I wrote the vendor asking him exactly what this new subspecies is called and he never wrote back.
Hope that helps.

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## John Clare

Thanks for responding Kevin.  Actually I have my own thoughts on this.  I think that the range of this genus is such that there are variants within each species.  This photo certainly doesn't look quite right to be _Pyxicephalus adspersus_, and I've seen photos and video of _P. edulis_ and _P. adspersus_ that are distinctly different to what most people accept as the standards for these two species.  New species of animals, including frogs, are always being discovered in Africa, and new subspecies are being described all over the world every year.  I can't explain the one in this photo but it's different enough to my eyes to reinforce my belief that there's a lot more taxonomic work to be done.

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## Kevin1

I agree with you on that.
For awhile now I've been doing a bit of an independent study project on the genus pyxicephalus and I've looked at hundreds of pictures of these frogs. As well as looked up as much info as I can find on these guys(which is what lead me here).
And I actually made a mistake On my first post the guy said it was actually P. Edulis sorry about that.
But I don't think it looks quite like Edulis either.
I've actually been very confused on the subject of P.edulis for some time now.
The main thing that confuses me is that some pictures I've seen that are claimed to be Edulis have only one stripe that runs down the back.
While others have the three stripes like the one pictured in your caresheet. Do you have any thoughts on this? or anyone else?

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## John Clare

It's very hard to really say anything concrete.  Actually, that specimen and a few others were acquired by the zoo I was visiting as _Pyxicephalus adspersus_.  I am friends with the keeper in charge of them and informed him that they were not _P. adspersus_ and more likely _P. edulis_ and that's where the identification came from.  He had a sort of "That makes sense" moment because he'd been trying to figure out why they didn't look like the huge male _P. adspersus_ they had on display.

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## Kevin1

Not to say that your wrong.
But did you consider that they might be The Tanzanian subspecies?
I've kind of developed a theory on the whole subject that I've been wanting to share with some fellow pyxie lovers.
If this is common knowledge I apologize.
These pictures are of frogs imported from tanzania and were said to be the Tanzanian subspecies of adspersus






I believe they look quite similiar to the frog in your caresheet.
But my theory is that pyxie frogs that have the three stripes are one subspecies or another of adspersus while the ones with one are edulis.
This is a picture of freshly metamorphosed P.edulis. This picture was taken from TheFrogRanch.com

And here's a picture of an adult from their site.

 Something I just thought of today/tonight is perhaps the Tanzanian subspecies of adspersus could be an integrade between the two?
I'm not trying to start an argument or any conflict here. Just thought I would share my thoughts with you all.

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## John Clare

That is quite possible - but who came up with the term "Tanzanian subspecies"?  The animal in my photo was an adult and nowhere near the size of Giants.  Also there was very little size difference between males and females when compared to the difference in Giants.

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## Kevin1

I found out it existed on a worldwide animal database.
I can't remember the site though nor could I found out much more info on it. To gain access to most of the info you had to be a biologist or zoologist or something of that sort.
I'll try to find the site today

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## John Clare

> I found out it existed on a worldwide animal database.
> I can't remember the site though nor could I found out much more info on it. To gain access to most of the info you had to be a biologist or zoologist or something of that sort.
> I'll try to find the site today


I'm a research scientist at a University in the US so I can probably access it and share what I find.

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## Kevin1

Oh wow thats pretty cool John.

Well I unfortunately couldn't find the site
but I did find the scientific name of the tanzanian subspecies.
There are at least 2 subspecies of Adspersus
There's the south african bullfrog 
Pyxicephalus adspersus adspersus.
Which are the kind most common in the pet trade and they also get the largest.
Then there's the Tanzanian bullfrog 
pyxicephalus adspersus angusticeps.
From what I've read they don't get much larger than edulis, males max out at about 5 inches. 
Maybe you can found some info with that.
I will still try to find that site though.

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## Douglas

Very interesting thread you guys have going here. 

Kevin, from what I have seen, the easiest way to separate dwarf from giant is just o look at the stripes. One tan colored strip = edulis. Three green stripes = adspersus.

I, too, believe there are a wide variety of different species within the two basic groups. But this is true for so many different taxa as subspecies are constantly being created due to different environmental pressures and stuff. We need to get over to Africa and do some work on these guys  :Smile:

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## Kevin1

are you the same Douglas from frogfreaks?

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## Douglas

Yep. Actually my name is Dave...Douglas is just the name of one of my frogs

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## Kevin1

all right Dave I'll keep that in mind

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## Kevin1

> Very interesting thread you guys have going here. 
> 
> Kevin, from what I have seen, the easiest way to separate dwarf from giant is just o look at the stripes. One tan colored strip = edulis. Three green stripes = adspersus.
> 
> I, too, believe there are a wide variety of different species within the two basic groups. But this is true for so many different taxa as subspecies are constantly being created due to different environmental pressures and stuff. We need to get over to Africa and do some work on these guys


On the old fatfrogs forum I thought of that all on my own about the stripes I posted pictures and stuff because on the FF they all that those frogs in the pictures were EDulis.

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## John Clare

It's nice to see you all here after being on Frog Freaks.  I've visited that forum several times and I am signed up to it but the bad language (even though the rules say it should be family friendly) and the maturity level put me off posting :/.

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## Kevin1

I know what you mean.
 That's why I joined here.
 The other forums aren't really good for intelligent conversation. particularly fatfrogs. LOL

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## Douglas

It's always nice finding a new site to talk about frogs. I will admit, although FF isnt always friendly, I still frequent it due to the fact that there are a ton of user and information there. It would be nice to see this site grow. I really enjoyed your care sheet, John.

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## John Clare

Thank you both.  Douglas, I really do hope the forum here grows well.  It was opened in October last year but I hadn't the time to put into helping it grow much until June this year.  Kurt has really helped in that respect and every day we get more and more people.  I'm very pleased with it so far and I believe we'll continue our growth indefinitely.

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## Kevin1

I too hope it grows.
I think this site has a lot of potential
And we hardcore pyxie lovers will surely keep comin'. :Wink:

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## Daniel L

I think I have the same specie, I got them as babies but now almost as big as the adspersus. But unlike as the edulis and the adspersus males this species has no thick tumbs.

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## John Clare

I've seen your photos - he doesn't look like a different species.  Not all members of the same species look the same.

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