# General Topics > Plants, Plant Care & Plant Identification >  Plant in Pot, Fertilizer, safe?

## flipper

I bought this plant at my local plant store forgot what it was called. Was going to put the plant in with my african dwarf frogs. Inside the pot the pet store owner said it will stay alive because the nutrients it needs is in the pot. You can take it out of the pot he said though. My question is, is that fertilizer inside the pot. I wouldn't want to be putting fertilizer in my aquarium. Thanks!

        m

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## Ryan

When buying aquatic plants from pet stores, its not necessary to keep them in the pot. Once you take them out of the pot, be sure to place the roots of the plant in the substrate of the aquarium ( Java fern, and anubias are exceptions) usually if you have a nutritious plant soil, they should thrive. An aquatic plant fertilizer should do well. If its safe for fish it s safe for frogs.

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## flipper

Would you recommend i put a layer of soil underneath the rocks. All I have in my aquarium is rock

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## Carlos

If you bought it at plant store need to move plant out of pot; rinse out the soil/substrate off root ball; and replant in ABG soil.  By African Dwarf Frogs; you mean the aquatic ones?  You plan to submerge that plant?  Do you know the name of it?  Thank you  :Smile:  !

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## bill

That's a media called rockwool in that pot. There is zero nutritional value in it. No fertilizers. You can put about an inch of fertilizer free peat moss under your gravel. It will feed from that for a long time. It will need a cap of sand or smaller gravel to keep it where it needs to be. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## flipper

Thanks! Peat Moss won't upset the balance in the water?

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## bill

It will soften it and lower the pH  a couple tenths. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Lija

Guys, what is that plant? Love it! Will it work as marginal?

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## flipper

> It will soften it and lower the pH  a couple tenths. 
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


Okay, you think that would be safe for ADF's? Also, how often would you have to change the peat moss out?

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## flipper

> Guys, what is that plant? Love it! Will it work as marginal?


I'll go back to the fish store tomorrow and ask! All I know is it's a fully aquatic plant.

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Lija

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## Ryan

> Would you recommend i put a layer of soil underneath the rocks. All I have in my aquarium is rock


Having a soil or peat layer (As bill posted) helps in the root development of the plants. Plants are likely to absorb more nutrients through their roots than their leaves. be careful to have the soil covered by your gravel. There are other products taught do the same thing but using soil is the most affordable way.

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## bill

> Having a soil or peat layer (As bill posted) helps in the root development of the plants. Plants are likely to absorb more nutrients through their roots than their leaves. be careful to have the soil covered by your gravel. There are other products taught do the same thing but using soil is the most affordable way.


Yup. Peat moss is the cheapest. You can use something like laterite, but peat moss will do about the same, if not more. 

As far as nutrient absorption, Ryan is partly correct. Plants will normally absorb nutrients via the root system, however, aquatics are different. Very few are root feeders, a majority absorb nutrients via the leaf structure. This one though, is a heavy root feeder, so some nutrients under your substrate will be appreciated by it. It does appear to be a lotus of some sort. I assume the plant shop you bought it from sells pond plants as well?


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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Bombina Bob

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## Tongue Flicker

> Guys, what is that plant? Love it! Will it work as marginal?


I'm sure it can. But it looks like a plant that can overrun/overgrow your tank or pond in a couple of months time when the right conditions are met  :Big Grin:

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## flipper

After doing extensive research I have found many problems with people using Peat Moss. Peat Moss has to be replaced very often due to how fast it decays. If not replaced, it will prevent root growth. I've learned a soil that has a higher concentration of fine clay particles over organic matter I've learned is best suited for plant growth. A substrate that is capable of changing the water chemistry is also something to avoid.




> "Ideally, you should select a substrate that is inert and that will not alter your water chemistry. The perfect substrate will also have a high Cation Exchange Capacity. The Cation Exchange Capacity refers to the ability of the medium to absorb nutrient ions. Simply put, this means that your substrate will hold on to the nutrients and make them available to plant roots."


Sand and gravel are bad at providing nutrients to plants. The best one I've found is to use flourite. Very nice looking and nutrient rich. Heres a list of bad (no nutrients) and good (plants will thrive) substrate


*Bad:* sand, gravel, peat moss, potting soil, compost


*Good:* flourite, laterite, Eco-Complete, ADA Aqua Soil

I believe it is also a good idea to cap your substrate meaning putting small layer of regular gravel on top of your desired bottom layer. This will prevent cloudiness of your water and protect the animals inside from scraping against sharp substrate such as flourite. Top layer can't be too thick though roots need to be able to reach the bottom.

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## bill

I have been using peat moss in my planted aquariums for a decade and never had an issue. Of course I routinely planned on replacing the dirt every 3 years. But that's just me. Of the 4 "good" substrates you listed, only 2 have nutrients in them, laterite (which is essentially clay, high in iron), and Aqua soil, which in my opinion, is over priced and has a ridiculous cycling time that includes ludicrous ammonia spikes. Eco-complete and fluorite, I have used both. They are both made from the same material, ground up pumice. Totally inert. They are good for CEC  due to their grain size, but they have no nutrients in them. That is presumed that you are fertilizing the water column. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## flipper

What about this stuff, they call it "Flourite"


The premium substrate for the planted aquarium providing essential nutrient to plant root structure long term for success planted aquariums

http://www.amazon.com/Flourite-7-kg-.../dp/B00025YSB0

From everything I have read the past couple of days many people love using Flourite.

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## bill

As I said in my last post, fluorite is crushed pumice. It is inert, and has not nutrients in it. That tag line is about it's higher CEC rating. The reason it gets a high CEC rating is due to the granule size being bigger than something like play sand. The CEC rating is more for fertilizing via the water column, i.e. Adding liquid or powdered ferts. It allows the exchange of those nutrients through the substrate, into the roots. For root feeders, the CEC rating isn't as important due to the roots being inside the nutrient rich media. If that makes any sense. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

Possibly the easiest thing you can do, is plant the plant and add fertilizer root tabs to the substrate around it. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Tongue Flicker

I've used laterite/lateritic soils in place of most substrates that needs coco fiber/except for my FBTs for years. In leopard geckos, snakes, hermit crabs and even fishes. I may have asked here once last year if laterites were safe for frogs knowing the iron content and frogs having semi-permeable skin. They are however hard to find in the US/UK/EU for some reason (geographic availability i guess) and as a result may be a bit costly.

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## taniaaust1

The plant to me looks like it probably is one of the Taro varieties eg Colocasia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taro. Taro plants have large elephant shaped ears like that so is also commonly called "elephant ears". 

I have planted a black stemmed Taro (the green stem wild growing variety is more common in my bog area of my garden and if I was currently able to post a picture of it, you'd see the plant other then the stem colour looks the same. This kind of plant which can be growth in an aquatic area or in a normal garden, would get too big for aquariums and outside in an water area, it can become invasive.

If it is a Taro, taro plants when disturbed can release toxins harmful to native wildlife according to this article http://www.saveourwaterwaysnow.com.a...ls.asp?ID=1790 . The sap is toxic (Thou I have mine in my bog area outside, due to it being a toxin releasing plant, I wouldnt put it into the pond itself. When I get my garden more set up, I plan to move it out of the bog/frog area as its very likely not to be good for frogs seeing it is harmful to "wildlife" and can be harmful to us too.. if handling it in a garden, pulling it out, gloves should be worn.. thou this plant can be eatten too if cooked right).

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## bill

i thought it might be a taro as well, but it was bought at a pet store, if i am reading correctly. which would lean me more towards a lotus. taro isn't very popular in the pond trade here. it being in a mesh pot with rockwool is also an indicator to me that it's an aquatic, or hydroponically grown. besides, taro, larger syngoniums, and some lotuses share a very similar leaf pattern and structure.

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## flipper

Bill, not trying to be a wise crack but how do you feel about these reviews on Amazon. I also mentioned it again because you spell it fluorite and the product on amazon spells it "flourite" so want to make sure were talking about the same thing. Anyways, I've read so much about people putting flourite as gravel in tanks and having plants grow great from it. Maybe I'm confusing what your saying and if you will what is a CEC rating?

"Seachem's fluorite is an iron rich, clay, stand-alone substrate. You plant your plants in it immediately, and let 'em grow! It's excellent for both hydroponics and aquariums. You don't need to add any laterite or gravel or anything at all. It works best if it's not mixed with anything else such as soil, peat, or sand (You can of course place a thin layer of decorative gravel of your color choice on top if you wish). It never needs replacing. It's expensive, but you get what you pay for. My plants are lush"

'I have seen reviews on this site suggesting a heavy wash. Might as well throw your money in the garbage. This is a nutrient rich laterite gravel. That means it is made of clay and dirt. This is for planted tanks, to feed the roots of soi rooting plants like swords."

"This is a must have for planted aquariums. I have a 45 gallon and used two bags of this as my top layer and I haven't had to use any supplements for my plants"

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## bill

No worries.  :Smile:  the fluorite I used was basically crushed pumice. In fact, the red even looks like gravel. The difference in spelling, btw, was apple's demonic autocorrect's fault! Lol 

Now, I admit, I haven't used flourite in about 5 years, so they may have changed it. The ones I remember being clay based were fluval's stratums (shrimp stratum and plant stratum), red sea's florabase, and all the ada subs. 

A CEC (cation exchange capacity) is the ability to retain nutrients in the substrate for the the plants to feed on. Gravel has too low a rating (there are no actual ratings, I just use the word to make it a bit easier to understand), the granules are too large, so nutrients flow through it too easily. Play sand, the granules are so small, that barely any nutrients get through to the roots of the plants. The specialty substrates are the right sizes to retain nutrients for the plants. Now. This is really only important when you are adding nutrients to the water, such as seachem's flourish, or dry, powdered fertilizers. When you run a dirt tank (crude, but that's really what it is), the CEC really doesn't matter because the plants are feeding directly from the soil under whatever cap you so choose. When I set up any planted aquarium/paludarium, I always use a peat moss base, with a play sand cap. I also grow a lot of heavy root feeders, such as cryptocoryne species. Some aquatics feed mainly through the roots, but others, like anubias, Java ferns and rotalas, feed primarily via their leaves. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Tongue Flicker

> The plant to me looks like it probably is one of the Taro varieties eg Colocasia Taro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Taro plants have large elephant shaped ears like that so is also commonly called "elephant ears". 
> 
> I have planted a black stemmed Taro (the green stem wild growing variety is more common in my bog area of my garden and if I was currently able to post a picture of it, you'd see the plant other then the stem colour looks the same. This kind of plant which can be growth in an aquatic area or in a normal garden, would get too big for aquariums and outside in an water area, it can become invasive.
> 
> If it is a Taro, taro plants when disturbed can release toxins harmful to native wildlife according to this article Removal of Wild Taro (Colocasia esculenta) . The sap is toxic (Thou I have mine in my bog area outside, due to it being a toxin releasing plant, I wouldnt put it into the pond itself. When I get my garden more set up, I plan to move it out of the bog/frog area as its very likely not to be good for frogs seeing it is harmful to "wildlife" and can be harmful to us too.. if handling it in a garden, pulling it out, gloves should be worn.. thou this plant can be eatten too if cooked right).


Most taro varieties have velvety, waterproof leaves that looks somewhat dusty or powdery and is gonna be itchy if you come in contact with it. The plant above has fleshier and glossy leaves.

From my Asian vacation, i saw a lot of fish ponds margined with plantations of taro. I dont think the catfishes and gouramis will dying anytime soon there. Cute sight btw, anyways from that leaf size, it is doubtful to get a small tuber based on the pot. If it is indeed taro.

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## bill

oh, i just realized, i never answered about whether it is good to use or not. if they changed flourite to a more stratum style substrate, i wouldn't hesitate to use it. i have used both the fluval stratums, the red sea that i mentioned and a few ada substrates. i like the fluval stratums and the red sea. the ada, i thought were over rated and not worth the cycling times of about 6 weeks, when following ada's instruction. it goes through massive ammonia spikes before it finally stabilizes.

i really need to brush up on my planted aquarium knowledge, i didn't know they reformulated flourite, so i am glad you were persistent about it  :Smile:

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## flipper

Thank you, I didn't know thats why I wanted a second opinion. You still very might be right. I asked these questions on the Amazon page and this is what I got.

Q: Is this Chemically Inert. Will this provide any nutrients. Can I use Flourite alone for my plants to survive

A: There is supposed to be nutrients. I planted a variety of plants that are just out of control in my tank. I uprooted several plants about a week later and found many of the roots on plants well over 10" long (They were appx. 2"-3" when planted).

A: Well,chemically speaking, the term ( inert) is to make reference to substances that don't have a chemical reaction in presence of others.
Yes, definitely, this will help your plants in the growing process.

I just asked the guy what he meant by the first answer. There is supposed to be nutrients meaning you have to add nutrients or theirs nutrients already in the substrate. I'll keep you posted.

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