# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > General Discussion >  New to Dart Frogs

## lilblack94gt

So, I have some Green tree frogs, and am getting the chance to get a couple black and blue Dart frogs from a friend, plus the enclosure and everything. How much difference is there for the PDF and the GTF? The PDFs I am getting are healthy and I want to keep them that way. I know you can't handle them alot. I dont handle my GTFs unless I absolutely have to, just because I dont want to stress them out. What else do I need to know? I am pretty certain they are eating crix.

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## lilblack94gt

What type of lighting schedule should I have them on? What type if any UV lighting? Calcium and vitamin dusting schedule?

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## Happy Frog

I noticed nobody replied to you so I'll try and help you out.  I'm also new to Dart frogs but I can say that they are not as hard to keep as you might think.

 First off, Hyla cinerea and  D. auratus are completely differet types of frogs with different needs.  PDF's require high humidity and temperatures in the mid 70's, whereas reasonable airflow and a screen top is sufficient to cover the top of your tree frog's enclosure.  Also, you mentioned the Auratus were eating crickets.  Pinheads are fine but you will also need to learn how to raise fruit fly cultures along with several types of Isopods.  Dusting your frog's food with supplements is important.  I dust my fruit flies with Repashy Calcium Plus daily and then use a 50/50 mixture of  Herpa Vite and RepCal three days a week.(This is a supplement routine I got from a PDF pro.)

As far as a lighting I believe 12 hours on and 12 hours off is the standard time schedule.  For frogs a 2.0  tube or CFL is okay but if you are going to have a heavily planted tank then a bulb with a high K rating(6500) will be needed for decent plant growth.

I would suggest researching and reading a caresheet for this particular species of frog.  I hope this helped a little and maybe someone else can add to this or correct me.

Good luck.

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## lilblack94gt

Thank you for your answers. I have done some research and found out their temps and the humidity.  I went to Repticon this weekend in St. Charles, IL. I ended up buying 2 Cobalt Tinc juveniles. I have them temporarily housed in a 10 gallon tank. I am wanting to do a 30 gallon long tank I have for them. 

Can you mix Dendrobates Azureus Tinctorius and Cobalt Tincs in the same enclosure? I am still planning on getting the Dendrobates Azureus Tinctorius from a friend and just was wondering if I can put them in the same bigger enclosure. Or if they will eat each other. I have seen pictures of other people mixing PDFs in their enclosures and just want to know if it is safe fro these two breeds to be intermixed.

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## Alex Shepack

A 30 long is a great size for _D. tinctorious. _ Frankly, you could get away with a 20L or a 15 for a pair too.  Mixing _Azureus_ and Cobalts would not be a great idea.  They're both the same species and so this presents even more problems than if you were mixing different species.  You would risk creating a funky hybrid by putting them together, which is generally frowned upon (although it is not nearly as serious of a problem as most people make it out to be).  A more serious problem is that all of the _Tinctorious_ frogs can be quite competitive with one another and don't make good group frogs.  Most people keep them as pairs or reverse trios (2 males to one female).  In particular the females will compete with each other quite violently. This would be exacerbated in a mixed tank with Cobalts and Azureus because they are the same species.  

One possibility would be to split that 30L in half with a piece of glass and create a tank that appears continuous but is in fact separated.  Each side would be large enough for a pair or a reverse trio if they're well planted.  

Cheers!
Alex

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## lilblack94gt

Thanks for the advice! I may think about doing the split habitat. I have several unused tanks right now, so I have plenty to choose from for both species of tincs.

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## lilblack94gt

Another newb question. I still have the 2 darts in a 10 gal aquarium. I hardly ever see them as they hide a lot. Most times I only see them when I dump fruit flies in for them. Is this normal behavior? Or am I doing something wrong? I have listed my setup and specs below. if I am doing something wrong, please let me know. I currently have been feeding the frogs every day to every other day as they are still so small. And I usually do it around 2pm central time. They have healthy appetites, so I am not too concerned and they are active when they are out. Just wondering if this is normal Cobalt tinc behavior?


My current setup:
10 gal aquarium
hydroball base with mesh then ecoearth. then sphagnum moss and magnolia leaf litter. 
Temps are 70-75F and humidty is 60%.
the only light I have is a exoterra tropical fluorescent mainly for the live plants. its set for a 12 on 12 off schedule. on at 10am off at 10am. 
I also have a monsoon mister rigged between my two tanks (tree frogs in one, darts in the other) to mist every 4 hours for 30 seconds.

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## Lynn

May I suggest using a real thermometer ( the glass / floating aquarium type $3.00) ; simply place it in the enclosure somewhere - not on the glass). The temp should be maintain in the mid 70's daytime.  The humidity is too low. They need a very high humidity to be out and about. They will hide if the humidity it too low.  They find little moist areas ( ie buried under a leaf)  where humidity is  higher. Is the enclosure completely sealed?

Review post #3 again 

Can you post a photo of the tank?

Lynn

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## lilblack94gt

Thanks Lynn. Thats what I was wondering. I have been having issues keeping the humidity up even though I have them in the hottest room in the house and away from drafts.

I do not currently have the tank completely enclosed. It is one of the 10gal reptile tanks that have the mesh lid that slides on a track. I have thought about getting a piece of plexiglass cut to place on top of the mesh , but wondered if it would filter out the uv from the bulb I have for the plants. Glass is not a really good option for me since my darn cats wont stay off the tanks. (I currently have light diffuser cut and zip stripped together like a canopy top to keep the cats from falling through the mesh. 

I will try to get a pic in the next few minutes to post.

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## lilblack94gt

I do have a normal glass therm(like for a fish tank) that I use for the temps. I also have a digital gauge for like outside that I move from my bearded dragons cage to the dart tank to check temps and humidity. I know the gauges that are shown in the tank are junk. I have just never removed them.

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## Lynn

Hi Lil,
If this were mine I would ,completely, replace the the white/grid top of the tank with a pc of glass. 
You will have to close it up! With it open like this the humidity is very low.  :Frog Surprise: 

A back corner of the glass can be cut on an angle-- large enough to pass any cords through but small enough so the frogs cannot escape.
When you raise the humidity- there behavior will be very different ! They may even climb on the the glass walls. 
The light can be put on top of the glass cover. You can purchase little handles from Josh Frogs to glue on the the glass lid to make a handle.
OR 
Purchase a new metal screen lid for the tank and silicone glass onto  the the inside of the lid. I will be heavier and very safe for both the frogs and the cats.
OR
This could also be done w/ plexi.
However I would not put the light on the plexi if it gets warm?
It's hard to keep clean.
OR
You may be able to purchase a new glass aquarium lid cover to fit this tank.
It would still have to be modified though as the entire back will be too open ( designed for filter parts)  

Hope this helps, Lynn

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## Pentrilx

> So, I have some Green tree frogs, and am getting the chance to get a couple black and blue Dart frogs from a friend, plus the enclosure and everything. How much difference is there for the PDF and the American Green Tree Frog? The PDFs I am getting are healthy and I want to keep them that way. I know you can't handle them alot. I dont handle my GTFs unless I absolutely have to, just because I dont want to stress them out. What else do I need to know? I am pretty certain they are eating crix.


Hi im new to.. I have a pretty huge tank with green tree frogs. I was also wondering if its a bad idea to put 3 Dendrobates azureus in the same tank since its pretty big. Let me know if its a terrible idea haha. Thanks

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## lilblack94gt

I have been thinking about just getting the 29gal tank done that I have. It was originally a fish tank so I can just use the glass tops. I might just do that instead of trying to mess with making a lid for the current tank.

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## lilblack94gt

So, once I have my 29 up, how often and length of time should I set my monsoon to mist? I really want these little guys to be more active.

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## DartEd

Truthfully, I only mist my tank once a week and run my fogger once a day for about 5 mins.  This seems to keep my humidity at +80% constantly.  The misting would depend on humidity levels as well as plant requirements. 

As far as making the frogs more active, I wish I had better news for you but I don't know there's anything you can do to change their behavior. I have read that by keeping the viv in a high traffic area where the frogs see people around constantly can acclimate them to people.  How much cover do the frogs have?  Some frogs actually become bolder when they have hiding places close by. If they have hiding places everywhere, they can become more confident and a bit bolder. Nothing, however is guaranteed.  Good luck.

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## lilblack94gt

The tank currently resides in my room. It is moderate traffic. They have lots of cover from the leaf litter and pieces of bark to hide under. I am just trying to get the tank situated now so that when my little one arrives, I wont have to worry about my darts as much.

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## FishChum

They would feel more comfy if they had cover from the sun (light), like taller plants to duck under. they avoid bright light where they will dry out and be spotted from above. more plant's will help keep the humidity up as well and use some of the water from the ultra cool misting system, everyone loves a rain storm at the push of a button, I know I do!

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## badjie

why does my black silicone used on my great stuff background smell so bad ? is this going to go away? I am getting my frogs in about a week and am very concerned. it is 100 % silicone for doors and windows

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## crumpster

why not use a piece of saran wrap to cover the lid?

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## Lynn

> why does my black silicone used on my great stuff background smell so bad ? is this going to go away? I am getting my frogs in about a week and am very concerned. it is 100 % silicone for doors and windows


badjie,
Since 'new frogs' should be quarantined for a minimum 30 days ....
This will give you the opportunity to let that silicone cure.
This will buy you some time 

 :Butterfly:

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