# Frogs & Toads > Pacman Frogs >  Pacman frog refusing to eat

## toadoro

Hi, I have a juvenile pacman frog that hasn't eaten in months. I bought him in November, and within two weeks he buried himself completely. The people at the reptile shop where I bought him told me to expect him not to come out until February and that this was normal behavior. My temperatures were too low (around 75 during the day) so he had gone into brumation. By March 1st he had still not emerged and they recommended I dig him out and place him at the warm side of the tank. He has still not eaten the earthworms I'm offering, and I've tried a couple of honey baths which have not worked. Here's the 'trouble in the enclosure' checklist from http://www.frogforum.net/pacman-frog...enclosure.html

1. Size of enclosure: 310mm x 305mm x 370mm
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences: just him
3. Humidity: 75
4. Temperature: 82 during the day, 76 at night
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish - dechlorinated tap water
6. Materials used for substrate - coco fibre
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. - 2 live plants, shallow water bowl, artificial log hide_
8. Main food source - earthworms (is what I've attempted to feed him; dangling in front of his face)
9. Vitamins and calcium? (I have calcium dust for the worms)
10. Lighting - Built in tube light for 10 hours a day
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure: 2 heat mats applied to the sides
12. When is the last time he/she ate : November
13. Have you found poop lately: just before he went under
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) : I will post pic tomorrow
15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area.: Looking thin
16. How old is the frog: I am not sure, he is about 5 or 6 cm in length
17. How long have you owned him/her: Since November
18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred: captive bred
19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats: N/A
20. How often the frog is handled: just three times, when putting him in the enclosure and for 2 baths
21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area: Low, it is in my bedroom so only when I get up and go to bed
22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc): daily water change, I have picked up two poos, I was told replacing substrate was unnecessary if the frog was not eating and soiling it

Is my frog too weak to eat on his own? Do I need to force feed?_

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## MatthewM1

have you tried rubbing the worms on his lips or dragging it across his front feet?

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## Thevacantface

Yikes, glad you found this place, your reptile place is giving you some terrible info.  Your frog doesn't need to brumate.  Your temps are ok, may want to bring them up a little, humidity could also come up some.  Overall your conditions sound good.  I would try a more active type food like crickets to get him going.  From his size, he should be eating most every day, because it sounds like he is still a juvenile.  If he won't eat on his own, force feeding soon will be necessary.  I had to do this a few times with my fantasy frog, and found the easiest method was with roaches by just pushing it's side shell between the frogs lips until it opens it's mouth.  Once it downs one, they tend to open their mouths for a bit after and you can pop others in if you are quick.  I also found that waiting for a molt made it easier and less stressful for the frog.  The honey soaks are only needed if the frog is showing signs of an impaction.  If the frog is weak, you can do 10% unflavored pedialite solution to replace some electrolytes.

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## Lija

Oh boy... Yeah... Don't get me started on pet store people lol

 need pic of the frog and enclosure.
 So just to make sure I understand it right - a frog was in low temps, still a baby, last ate in November, went under substrate after that and he is still alive? Really need pc.

meanwhile... Well, no pic first  :Smile:

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## toadoro

> have you tried rubbing the worms on his lips or dragging it across his front feet?


I do try this whenever I try a feed

My tank dimensions are actually 450mm x 310mm, I don't know where those other figures came from.

This morning I found a poo, I don't know how that's possible, could that have been due to the honey bath I gave him yesterday?

The humidity rises to 80 during the day, I forgot to say. Also, the heat is not thermostat controlled - I just keep an eye on the temps, could this make it fluctuate too much?

I've been trying to upload pictures the past half hour, it keeps saying that they are 'not valid image files' despite them being within the size and dimension limits. I've tried converting them to several different file types but nothing. Anyone know why this might be?

Thank you so much for helping.

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## Lija

Admins are working on fixing pic problem, you can download pic to photobucket or similar and post link here.

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## toadoro

toadoro's Library | Photobucket Here's a link to a picture of him and his tank

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## Thevacantface

You might try covering three of the sides to help reduce stress, and he really doesn't need that much light, you have to remember these guys live on the forest floor of tropical rainforests.  They will get some light but not 10 hours of intense UV.

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## toadoro

I've covered three sides now, and I have ordered a thermostat controlled heat mat. I've also ordered some crickets in case he wants to eat in private. Should regular daylight from the window enough light?

Can anyone think of anything else I could try? How much longer until I should force feed?

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## Lija

Honestly your frog doesn't look like he wasn't eating for 4 months, may be its the pic. Crickets may help, he was probably used to eating them in a store. 
 You know given he was down for so long and survived I'd do electrolyte bath to help restore a proper balance and get reptiboost ( fluckers reptiaid) and dust all your food in it for a week or so.  
 The bath should be warm (80-82F), and ratio as was suggested 1 part of electrolyte solution ( unflavoured pedialyte or similar) and 10 parts of water. 20 min. 

Yes, regular ambient light is fine. i very strongly suggest you get a digital combo instead of your gauges. Analog ones can show whatever they feel like it. This way you be sure of temp and humidity.

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## cobra1264

i have had mine for over a year he has refused food in the past as well and the one thing that made him interested in food again was offering a small frozen fuzzie mouse or pinkies. if really worried coat a fuzzie mouse or pinkie in reptaboost and offer him the food by  long tongs i learned the hard way when mine got over excited and lunged after back away and looking like he wouldnt eat then bit my fingers. mine now refuses crickets but loves night crawlers and his once a month mouse or frozen baby chicken. sometimes pacman's eat only 3 times a month their lazy slow digesting animals like baby corn snakes they can go up to 2 months with refusing food yours can also be going through a rough shed where he wont eat till he gets rid of the too tight of skin

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