# Frogs & Toads > Frogs >  Help with young leopord frog, please!

## Mattiez

I was at the pet store yesterday getting a few crickets for Frodo, my firebelly, when I noticed a gorgeous tiny frog sitting by himself in a tiny plastic container on the counter. As soon as the girl came back I asked what he was doing there. She said some people just dropped him off there because they didn't want him anymore (she said they thought he'd get too big). When I asked her what they were going to do with him she had no answer for me and asked me if I wanted him. 

Well, I love frogs too much to let some innocent baby like that get thrown away (or God knows what else they would have done with him), so I immediately volunteered to take him. They had no idea what he was, but she said the people told her they had him as a tadpole and he just got his legs. They had been feeding him "frog and tadpole pellets", which she gave me as well as small "critter keeper" tank. She filled it with about a 3/4" inch of water and put a flat rock in that provides a dry spot for him. 
I added another flat rock so he has more of a dry area should he want it. He alternates between sitting in the water and hopping up on a rock. 

He appears to be a fully formed frog, despite having "just sprouted his legs" and he has no evidence of a tail. He's still quite tiny however. About an inch and a half at most. 

Based on his markings and my googling, he appears to be what I first suspected he was, a leopard frog (southern). 

I need some help with an enclousure. Obviously he can't stay in a critter keeper. I'm thinking about getting a 10 gallon as soon as possible. Since he's so young and apparently just recently was a pollywog, what type of set up should he have? Would something like what I give my firebelly be okay (ground covered with 'jungle bark' and moistened moss with a few water bowls and plants)? Or should he be in a more aquatic environment until he gets bigger? 

Also, he's still so small I have no idea what to feed him. Even the little crickets look like they could barely fit in his mouth. I dropped some pellets into his water before I left for work this morning, so when I get home I'll see if he ate any. 

Any help/info/input would be appreciated! 

If it'd be helpful I could take pictures of him and post them when I get home from work tonight. 

Thanks for your time!

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## John Clare

Hi Mattiez.  Thanks for signing up.

Frogs feed almost entirely based on movement - they won't eat the pellets because they don't see them as food.  Those pellets are meant for fully aquatic frogs and for tadpoles so they don't work for a truly amphibious frog like yours.  Foods for froglets (baby frogs like yours) include pinhead crickets, fruit flies, spring tails and any other insect food small enough to eat but obviously they have to be alive.  The easiest is probably fruit flies.  

Since you live in the US, you can get fruit flies from several places - if you need to feed the frog right away I would find some locally.  Some Petcos sell proper fruit fly cultures in jars that you can feed from right away.  Other Petcos have just small starter cultures that have maybe 30 flies, sold in vials.  I don't think Petsmart sells fruit flies but it's worth having a look.

I've ordered fruit fly culturing media from these people: ED's Fly Meat Home and I have no complaints about the products, though they are not cheap.

As for how to keep him, leopards are the big jumpers of the frog world.  Bigger frogs have a tendency to crash into the walls of their terrariums and hurt themselves, so the bigger the better.  If he can't jump clear across it then it's big enough for him at that size, but obviously as he gets bigger he'll need a bigger terrarium.  

Keeping him like the fire belly should be fine but make sure the water is not very deep - most frogs will drown very easily right after metamorphosis (turning into a frog).

I hope this helps!  Good luck.

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## Mattiez

Thank you John! That was very helpful. Right now he's in a brand new 10 gallon tank. It's lined with cocohusk fiber. Do you think that's okay? Someone on another forum just said that it may be bad since it's foreign to leopard frogs. He also has two small water dishes, very shallow, impossible to drown in. I don't think he knows they're there yet, but I assume he'll find them when he wants it? He's also got some artificial ivy that he's currently sitting under, as well as some flat stones. I'm about to tape some forest print outs to some of the walls of the tank, is that a good idea?

I didn't have time today, but tomorrow i'll get the food. I know of at least one petco in my Chicago area that has the 30 vials of fruitflies like you said, so hopefully he'll be comfortable enough to eat tomorrow. 

Thank you again for your help!

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## Kurt

Make sure the vials are alive. It has been my experience that most Petco's don't remove dead cultures from their shelves. I saw one Petco actually mark them down.

Coconut husk/ground shell is fine. I am of European heritage, I have eaten coconuts, love pina coladas. Coconuts are not native to Europe and neither a lot of other things I eat. So that whole argument that someting may be bad since it's foreign to leopard frogs, doesn't hold too much water to me.

The forest printouts should be fine as long as they are taped to the out side of the tank. Be careul not to get them wet if you printed them with your computer, the ink will run and it will look like C**p.

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## Mattiez

Thanks for the info, Kurt! I'll be sure you make sure they're moving. I'm happy you think the coco stuff is fine. When I get the vial, do I just try to shake some in? Or perhaps I should put some fruit in for them to congregate around?

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## John Clare

Those vials usually don't have much in them so get one to feed and one to use to start a culture (at least).  Let the flies go in the tank and make sure they can't escape for a couple of hours so the frog can eat them - fruit flies can crawl straight up glass and out through vented lids.

Coconut fibre is used with tons of frogs by lots of people with no ill effects.

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## John Clare

> love pina coladas


Well if you like pina colladas, do you like getting caught in the rain?

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## Kurt

> Well if you like pina colladas, do you like getting caught in the rain?


Yes, because that's a good time to look for frogs!

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## Kurt

I do dust my fruit flies with vitamin/calcium powers. I do this by taking a funnel and placing it in a vial that already has the powder in it. It also helps if the powder is covering all the inside surfaces of this vial, this usually keeps them from climbing out right away. To add the fruit flies I shake the jar or vial of flies into the funnel with one hand and I shake the funnel/receiving vial with the other hand. After dusting, I give the flies to my frogs.
To culture flies you will need media mix, jar or vials, and something like excelsior for them to climb on. These items can all be purchased at Black Jungle, along with the flies themselves. Mix the media with boiled distilled water according to directions on the package, put the mixture in your jar(s) or vial (s), let cool then sprinkle baker's yeast on the media. Add some excelsior to the jars and then add the flies. Depending on what speices of fruit fly you use, it will take from ten to sixteen days before you begin to see results. _Drosophila melanogaster_, the smaller of the two commonly sold flies take less time to show results than does _D. hydei_. However, _hydei_ is a larger fly than _melanogaster_.
To keep the flies in the enclosure with the frogs I use an enclosre that will allow me to place a paper towel in between the top and the rest of the cage. Critter Keepers are great for this, at least the ones that don't have vents on the sides are. The paper towel allows for ventilation, and even allows for the passing of water.
Any questions?

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## Mattiez

I got him the culture of flies at petco. It was extremely alive. When I got home from work he was still just sitting in the same corner he was in this morning. Is that semi normal for a little froglett? I've been misted him every a couple today that too much? Should I do it before I go to bed? 

Anyway, i put a tiny piece of melon in his new tank and shook a bunch of fruitflies on it. He was looking at them, but I didn't see him actualy make a move for them. He's just still sitting elevated up on one of the fake ivy leaves now..

Does this sound normal?

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## John Clare

Is all of his tail fully absorbed?

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## Kurt

> I got him the culture of flies at petco. It was extremely alive. When I got home from work he was still just sitting in the same corner he was in this morning. Is that semi normal for a little froglett?


If he didn't have errands to run, then, yeah, thats somewhat normal.




> I've been misted him every a couple times today that too much? Should I do it before I go to bed?


A little. No, not tneeded at this point, mist tomorrow night before going to bed.

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## Mattiez

> Is all of his tail fully absorbed?


I think so, here's a pic from his old container.

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## John Clare

How long have you had him?  He might be just nervous or unwilling to feed during the day - these are nocturnal animals.

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## Mattiez

I got him wednesday, thursday night I got him the 10 gallon and transferred him in.

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## John Clare

Give him a few days - he might need to get used to his new live behind bars.

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## Mattiez

I'm starting to worry a little less, I think he's just really really shy. Sometimes I catch him sitting in one of his pools, and once I cought him sitting right next to the piece of watermelon looking at the flies. This is only when I sneak in. I think he's just extremely hesitant to move/be in the open when he senses I'm there. I read somebody else had a full grown leopard frog who was just as shy, so It's not surprising a froglet would be too... And his little tummy is still nicely robust, so I'm feeling more confident that he sneaks his flies in when I'm out or at work...

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## John Clare

You are probably right.  I've always found that _Rana_/_Lithobates_ don't make good captives because they are nervous and their big jumps make them prown to head injuries.

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## Mattiez

You think it would be beneficial to move him to a room where he'd be left alone virually all day, except for me feeding/changing his water?

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## John Clare

> You think it would be beneficial to move him to a room where he'd be left alone virually all day, except for me feeding/changing his water?


Well he'll never get used to people if he's hidden, but he will be stressed less on an ongoing basis.  Hard choice to make.

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## Mattiez

Hey everyone, I just wanted to give a little update. For a long while, I was pretty nervous about my little guy, since he'd just sit in the corner for hours when I was home, and I'd never see him. Now he is trained to greet me in the morning when he receives breakfast. I'd put new flies in each day when I wake up, before I leave for work (around 6:40am). Now, every time I wake up and open the blinds, he's sitting in the middle just waiting for the flies. He doesn't get too scared when I open the lid, and when I dump flies in he actually eats them in front of me. I think he's got a good appetite, as his little tummy is nice and robust. Tomorrow I plan on getting calcium powder, and start dusting his flies.

Right now I'm feeding pretty generously once every morning- is that fine for a young froglet? Also, how often should he be fed dusted flies?

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## John Clare

That's good news Mattiez.  I would feed him some tiny crickets too - fruit flies aren't the best growth food long-term.  I would recommend dusting the flies for a young frog twice a week.

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## Mattiez

Alright, sounds good. I'll be on the look out at pet stores for some tiny crickets. So when I go to petco after work today, I should just get a standard reptile calcium powder? Or should I look for a multi-vitamin thing too? Thanks again for your constant help, John. Peter (the little guy's name) and I appreciate it greatly.

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## John Clare

I would get both.  For young frogs, at feeding time I get the fruit flies or whatever into a small plastic tub.  I add a little bit of vitamin/mineral supplement and a little bit of calcium powder and then swirl the whole thing around until the flies are well coated.  Then I add them to the tank of the young.  Generally it's not the best idea of mix these two supplements but the young frogs are going to get so much in each bite that I don't find any problems.   Mix the supplements at feeding time, don't store them mixed together.

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## Mattiez

I plan on dusting crickets for my fire belly as well. Since he's bigger, should I do one feeding session of calcium and a separate one for the minerals? Also, can you recommend a brand? I've seen people talk about specific ratios of ingredients to each other, should I be looking out for something in particular, or will it all be beneficial at this stage?

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## John Clare

I know some people recommend one brand over the other and there is at least a grain of fact in some of their reasoning (calcium : phosphate ratios for example).  However this is a great page by Melissa Kaplan on vitamin and mineral supplements sold for reptiles and amphibians:  Vitamin and Mineral Supplementation for Herps

She talks about them in the context of iguanas (vegetarian lizards) but most of what she says very much applies to amphibians so give it a read.

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## Mattiez

I read that article, though at times I found it a little confusing. Now I'm worrying that they're going to die without UVB light! Anyway, I purchased T-rex 2:0 Calcium and D3 with no phosphorus. 

I also purchased a T-rex brand tree frog vitamin/mineral/calcium/superfood dust. They had a big sale so I picked it up too, hoping that it would also be acceptable for my semi-aquatic frogs. I figured since reptile supplements are okay for frogs, that a tree frog supplement should also be okay for at least young, growing frogs of other species. I've yet to use that yet, as I'd like to run it by all of your more experienced opinions first  :Smile:  .

When I get home tonight I'll post the full ingredient list, but in addition to a host a vitamins it also has a lot of natural nutritional sources like hempseed meal as well as bee pollen. 

Again, I'll post the list and you guys can tell me what you think. If everyone thinks it's not a great idea, that's fine- it was only a couple of bucks, and i just figured it would be worth a try  :Smile: 

Thanks again everyone for all your continuing help!

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## John Clare

I think you'll be alright with that one, though I do believe it's not a good idea to buy just one product - calcium is supposedly not meant to be stored mixed with the other minerals and vitamins.

There is no scientific evidence that UV light is essential to most amphibians - in fact it seems to be detrimental to most.  Some amphibians bask (such as Waxy Monkey Frogs) but most amphibians are nocturnal, so it seems unlikely they would require UV light!  Though not specifically about frogs, this thread over at caudata.org is very good and does include frog references:  UV lights in the care of caudates - Caudata.org Newt and Salamander Forum

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## Mattiez

Hey guys, so here's the ingredients list on t-rex repashy superfood tree frog dust that I've yet to use: 

Calcium Carbonate, Vitamin Premix, Hempseed meal, Whey Protein isolate, defatted wheat germ meal, Brewer's Yeast, spirulina algae, honey powder, dicalcium phosphate, bee pollen, rosehips powder, haemotococcus algae, marigold extract, kelp meal, rosemary extract, yucca extract, natural mixed tocopherols (as a preservative), vitamin A acetate, vitamin D, dried aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, dried aspergillus niger fermentation extract, dried lactobacillus fermentation product, dried bifidobacterium thermophilum fermentation product, dried bifidobacterium longum fermentation product, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product and dried bacillus subtilis fermentation product. 

Again, I know it says tree frogs, but if it's beneficial to them, I couldn't imagine it being anything other than good for my little guy, at least until he becomes an adult. Of course, maybe those ingredients aren't actually suitable for any frog, which is why I'm posting them for your opinions! 

The one I have used is by the same brand and is called 2:0. Here's the list for that one: 

Calcium Carbonate vitamin A, vitamin D, vitamin E, Menadione, Thiamine, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine, Vitamin b12, Vitamin C, Niacin, Pantothenic acid, folic acid, biotin, choline, dextrose. 


Thinking about what has been said, I should probably buy one that is JUST calcium, so it's not mixed with and potentially de-activating the vitamins...

For now, he's just getting the 2:0, at least until we can make a decision about whether or not the 'superfood' would be beneficial, or just super junk. What do you guys think about that extensive ingredient list? 

Again, I'm sorry to keep asking more and more stuff out of you guys, but due to his tiny size and young age I'd much rather be safe than forever sorry, and just don't want to do anything wrong, or potentially harmful. 

Thanks again!

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## John Clare

The first one seems a little too "health spa" for my liking but it certainly can't do any harm.  The second one seems a little more traditional.  

I think your reasoning is sound.

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## Mattiez

I had a very odd experience with him this weekend. When I woke up and checked on him saturday morning, I thought he had died. He was sitting in the water a little more submerged than usual (nose under too, usually he keeps that up). I stuck my finger in and touched him and he didn't move at all. Normally when a hand goes in his tank, he gets freaked out and jumps to the corner. I got very emotional and another family member touched him too, and also said they thought he was dead. After a couple mins when I regained partial emotional composure, I looked in and it appeared he had raised his nose up out of the water. We opened the tank to touch him again and this time before we could he rocketed out of the water, did a crazy bounce around the whole tank before going back to his usual ivy corner. He spent most of saturday in the corner, though I could tell he had been in both of his pools as there was fresh coco in them (I had changed his water after the incident). Sunday morning everything was back to normal. He was waiting for his fly breakfast and he ate them up in front of me. He was in and out of his pools all day. Today was absolutely normal again too. He was in the pool, then when I turned the lights on and approached the tank he moved to the apple over which I pour the flies, and proceeded to eat some in front of me again. 

I have no clue as to what caused this bizarre behavior. Physically, he appears fine. No discolorations, swellings, sores or anything else of that nature. I did however notice that the AC was a little heavy that night, as I was chilly in my bed under a few sheets. At the lowest it probably dropped to 62, when normally it would be 68-71ish at night. Could this sudden decrease in temperature have caused him to get into a sluggish pseudo-hibernation mode for the night? Could he have just been scared and trying to hide under the shallow water that morning, and purposely didn't react to my touching for some reason? 

I'm at a loss for what happened, but I'm less and less concerned as he's been acting completely fine after that one incident, and he appears physically sound.

Any theories/concerns?

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## John Clare

Sounds like he was trying to make you think he wasn't food.  I wouldn't worry about it.

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## Mattiez

Alright, I won't! Thanks John!

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## Kurt

I think what have happened here was he was asleep when you first touched him. Somewhere, I vaguely remember hearing that Ranids like leopards and American bullfrogs sleep with there eyes open. It also occurs to me that I have never seen any _Rana_ or _Lithobathes_ frogs with their eyes closed. Of course I could be talking out of my......

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## Mattiez

I think you may be right! 
I just had no idea these guys could go into such a deep sleep like that!

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