# Frogs & Toads > African Bullfrogs >  Sex this Pixie Please

## Eddy22

Just bought this one but not to sure about the sex. Any help would be appreciated. It 4 inches long.

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## SCF

This is a femal_e P. angusticeps_ in my opinion. The new genus updates are making it a little harder to correctly identify species, so hopefully some others will give their input.

It also needs to go on a diet,  :Wink: 

It's not a P. Adspersus if you were/or were not aware already.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Its a male, but i believe the species is mozambiqus not angusticeps.

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## SCF

> Its a male, but i believe the species is mozambiqus not angusticeps.


This is from the genus update from carlo's thread which lead me to believe P. angusticeps is what is refered to mozambiqus. Mozambiqus is just the local "Both _P.angusticeps and P. edulis cohabit the Mozambique's Plains"_

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## Eddy22

So you guys think it definitely "not" an  _Pyxicephalus adspersus?_ That's what I ordered.

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## SCF

It definitely is not.

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## Lija

and why do i wanna say that is typical edulis?  :Smile:  female as that too. 

 wine anyone?

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## SCF

I'll take a glass.

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## Lija

> So you guys think it definitely "not" an  _Pyxicephalus adspersus?_ That's what I ordered.


 that is absolutely NOT! not the first time (actually quite frequent) sellers mislabel pixies

  guys at least we agree on that lol

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## SCF

Where did you get it from? Just so other buyers are aware of the company mislabeling species.

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## Lija

> Where did you get it from? Just so other buyers are aware of the company mislabeling species.


 lol I'm pretty sure every single company lately are mislabeling pixies, stores around me now are labeling them as pyxies to be on a safe side lol perhaps scared of me to complain about something  froggy again lmao

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## SCF

I was directing that to the op, I know for a fact LLL doesn't mislabel.

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## Lija

look at the bright side, that frog is absolutely stunning!

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## Colleen/Jerrod

I was under the impression that only the male had the yellow throat and SCF you are right Mozambiqus is the same as angusticeps, but is the OP up for opening that mouth to check the odontoids? Lol! Need to be checked because angusticeps have odontoids that are wider than they are tall.

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## Eddy22

Back Water Reptiles.

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## SCF

> I was under the impression that only the male had the yellow throat and SCF you are right Mozambiqus is the same as angusticeps, but is the OP up for opening that mouth to check the odontoids? Lol! Need to be checked because angusticeps have odontoids that are wider than they are tall.


To be honest it's harder to sex, looking a picture #3 looks to be female, but picture #1 does look male, but it's a little fat in that picture. Eddy, can you get any more pictures? Do you want to check it's odontoids for us, hehe..just kidding I wouldn't advise that.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Back Water Reptiles.


That would have been my first guess. Been seeing a lot of mislabled Dwarfs here from them.

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## SCF

> Back Water Reptiles.


They are notorious for mislabeling.

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## Lija

lol backwater again

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> To be honest it's harder to sex, looking a picture #3 looks to be female, but picture #1 does look male, but it's a little fat in that picture. Eddy, can you get any more pictures? Do you want to check it's odontoids for us, hehe..just kidding I wouldn't advise that.


I don't believe they are distinguished apart by how fat they are. Many males of this kind have appeared on the forum and look exactly like this.

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## SCF

A good thread to look at Eddy.

http://www.frogforum.net/african-bul...ozambique.html

Seems this thread title is mislabeled as well.

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## Lija

we gotta do a sticky with pics of all species, females and males  :Smile: 
 and i still think it is p. edulis, female  :Smile:  ha

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## SCF

I believe you are right Grif, have you heard it croak yet Eddy?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> we gotta do a sticky with pics of all species, females and males 
>  and i still think it is p. edulis, female  ha


Agree with the stick idea.

Edulis doesn't have the yellow like that unless it is from a different region or male.

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## SCF

> we gotta do a sticky with pics of all species, females and males 
>  and i still think it is p. edulis, female  ha


Then no one would talk here... =*(

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## Lija

I'm totally confused then.

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## SCF

http://www.frogforum.net/african-bul...xie-lol-4.html

His frog is almost identical to "Dabrute's."

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## Lija

> Then no one would talk here... =*(


 lol if even we can't agree on species and sex of a adult frog we sure have problems. luck of beer perhaps this time?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> I'm totally confused then.


Look at the GABF care article. There is a great image by John of a true edulis and it is a young male.

Frog Forum - African Bullfrog - Pyxicephalus adspersus - Care and Breeding

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> lol if even we can't agree on species and sex of a adult frog we sure have problems. luck of beer perhaps this time?


Lucky beer??? I have to get some of that.

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## SCF

Actually In this brief conversation I believe we got it. Male, P. Angusticeps (depending on odontoids, which can be captured with a picture during shed or right after a larger prey item was fed) or Male P. Edulis.

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## Eddy22

Here some new ones. Whats the verdict?

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## Lija

> Look at the GABF care article. There is a great image by John of a true edulis and it is a young male.
> 
> Frog Forum - African Bullfrog - Pyxicephalus adspersus - Care and Breeding


 gotta do some reading, i got it mixed up then.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

This old thread can shed some light on the situation as well.

http://www.frogforum.net/african-bul...rican+bullfrog

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## Lija

or not  :Smile: 
 second pic is very much male P. edulis

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> gotta do some reading, i got it mixed up then.


Don't worry. Everything ABF is confusing now and I pretty much do mean everything Lol!

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## Lija

agree, i suggest we do a summary to the best of our knowledge.
 we are not arguing if that frog is giant, we all agree it is not, right?
 so now we gotta decide what is that and why? is it edulis or angustiseps? and why? and perhaps we all need to do some digging, i know I need to do so for sure. and i need to get more coffee  :Smile:

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## SCF

Let's just get Philippe de vosjoli to weigh in on this and be done with it. I actually have asked him once before on species identification... He never got back to me.  :Wink:

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## SCF

I believe the only true indicator between it being P. Edulis and P. Angusticeps would be (like Grif brought up) width of the odontoids in comparison to height.

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## Eddy22

Should I try to open its mouth and take a photo?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> I believe the only true indicator between it being P. Edulis and P. Angusticeps would be (like Grif brought up) width of the odontoids in comparison to height.


I am not exactly sure why so many get confused between Giants and Smaller species except those without prior knowlege. They used the odontoids to differentiate _adspersus_ from _angusticeps_ so my first thought is that the two look very similar only one is larger and has a few defining features. Many other species are called Dwarfs even if they are not the true _edulis_. This is part of what can be very confusing.

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## SCF

You're right, I had to re-read that. The new genus updates are a good cause for confusion.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> You're right, I had to re-read that. The new genus updates are a good cause for confusion.


The people capturing the frogs from the wild don't know for sure what they're getting because the Giant African Bullfrog is called the Giant Bullfrog and the Dwarf is just called African Bullfrog in Africa. There is also _obbianus_ which I have no idea what it looks like.

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## Lija

well, simply speaking giants are giants, no doubt about it, bluish on a legs, green lines on a back. whatever is not giant is dwarf lol  that is how it used to be, but now with that new species it got all mixed up. brown coloring, yellow lines on a back is edulis, angusticeps looks like giant, but doesn't have blue as well as doesn't have "eye brow" like giants, their eyes look rounder in comparison. 
 that is my understanding, do i need some more coffee?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Lol! Eddy do not attempt to open his mouth. It will stress him out and you may be bitten which by the way can be painful.

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## Lija

agree with Grif, you don't want to take a picture of his odontoids lol
 edit, Grif it can be painful? lol why CAN but not WILL? lol

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Wait for him to shed his skin like SCF suggested or after he eats something he will work muscles in his mouth and throat while swallowing and expelling air from his stomach by opening and closing his mouth. It will look as if he is yawning. This is another good oportunity to see his odontoids.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> agree with Grif, you don't want to take a picture of his odontoids lol
>  edit, Grif it can be painful? lol why CAN but not WILL? lol


There is always a chance the frog won't get a good bite. Unlikely, but a chance Lol!

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## Carlos

Hello and welcome to FF Eddie!  Find sex my Pixie threads interesting because they sometimes have disagreement not only on the sex but on the species  :Big Grin:  .  

Well, your frog is not _P. adspersus_ (guess everybody agrees on that so far) so it was mislabeled by seller.  Thanks for your good pictures and do have a question; how long is your frog from snout to vent (SVL).  Reason I'm asking is, because pics matches well a male frog Vosjoli mentions in his book as a _Pyxicephalus sp_. "dwarf" to differentiate from _P. edulis_.  They look close to a _P. edulis_ but males have a distinct bright yellow throat.  This is a smaller frog with females reaching 3.5 in. and males around an in. more (hence me asking frogs size).

If your frog is bigger than that, then it's probably _P. angusticeps_.  Do not recommend forcing mouth open to verify.  SCF suggestion to wait until next shed is good.  Maybe get lucky with flashlight or camera flash and get to see them.  Your frog is a nice specimen and looks very healthy, congrats  :Smile:  !

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## Eddy22

It's exactly 4" from snout to vent. It hasn't croaked but dose make a hissing sound if that helps. You guys are awesome! Thanks for all the information as I have a lot to learn. Look forward to hearing more.

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## Carlos

> It's exactly 4" from snout to vent. It hasn't croaked but dose make a hissing sound if that helps. You guys are awesome! Thanks for all the information as I have a lot to learn. Look forward to hearing more.


Based on 4 in. length will go with male _Pyxicephalus sp. "dwarf." _ If it passes 5 in. or you have chance to verify odontoids shape, then that might be incorrect.  Good luck  :Smile:  !

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## Lija

hissing sound? lol no you def don't want to take any pics of his odontoids right now lol

 Carlos are you going with edulis male?

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