# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) >  war against 'mites'

## Lynn

Two weeks ago I had a several cultures ( 3 varieties ) most crashed  :Frown: 

And a lot of hungry PDF's

I had noticed they were very slow to develop despite my typical routine having been maintained... including my same culture medium.

3 of my cultlures had mites visible under the rim of the culture container .

I THREW *EVERYTHING* AWAY.
I drove an hour to my favorite herp shop and purchased 8 new cultures at different 
stages of development --- sigh  $$$
STARTED OVER

*I changed culture medium*---Switched to Repashy 'super fly'   :Smile: 

HUGE difference --- even in w/ the stubborn Hydei cultures

washed down the entire FF rack w/  rubbing  alcohol and rinsed ( I really don't want to use the insecticide shelf liner )



came up with this idea ?
double sided tape on each culture container about one inch from the bottom 



so - far-so - good    :Smile:

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## Carlos

Bad, bad, mites  :Mad:  !  So Lynn; if any mites try to climb up into culture they would get stuck on the tape?

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## Lynn

Hopefully !

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Mentat

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## Heather

Ugh! How frustrating! I use mite powder between 2 paper towels to line the shelves. I don't want the powder to actually come in contact with the cultures. I'm sure it could be harmful to the frogs. I also keep a citronella candle near. I've gotten a few mites but nothing like in the past. I also moved them up higher in the shelves. 

Neat idea! I'll be interested to see how the tape works  :Smile: . Will you update after some time to let us know?

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## Lynn

> Ugh! How frustrating! I use mite powder between 2 paper towels to line the shelves. I don't want the powder to actually come in contact with the cultures. I'm sure it could be harmful to the frogs. I also keep a citronella candle near. I've gotten a few mites but nothing like in the past. I also moved them up higher in the shelves. 
> 
> Neat idea! I'll be interested to see how the tape works . Will you update after some time to let us know?


They could have been in my cculture media?
It's been over 2 weeks and the cultures are flourishing with the new Repashy 'super fly'.
It mixes nicely too.  The developed very quickly !
I would have to say, twice as fast as the other product I was using!!!!

I worry about the paper.  The warnings worry me ( plus I have cats)
I hold the bottom of the culture container and tap the ff into a plastic bag/ then dust/then feed.... so I would be in contact with the chemical so often , sometimes twice a day.  :Frog Surprise: 

Plus I reach into the bag  w/ a gloved hand to toss the FF into the enclosure !!!
I would imagine the chemical could penetrate the paper towel ?

I'm  surprised that after all these years and some clever person has not 'invented' a better way to culture FF 

Here is a paper I found off the FDA site regarding the 2 chemicals in an alternate"natural" product
Natural Chemistry Reptile Healthy Habitat Reptile Bacteria Cleaners

http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/chem_sea...ug-95_001c.pdf

The two chemicals are use to make colace -stool softer and desenx- foot powder 

I don't want to use this either.

I think I'll stick to my double sided tape for now   :Smile:  I put it abound the edge of the shelves as well 

Does anyone know if Repashy has a chemical in it to 'kill' mites ?
If so, I might be making my own recipe.


Repashy :
_INGREDIENTS: Potato Granules, Brewers Dried Yeast, Fructose, Nixtamal, Dried Nopal, Dried Kelp, Alfalfa Leaf, Cinnamon, Dried Krill, RoseHips, Calendula Flower, Marigold Flower Extract, Phaffia Rhodozyma Yeast, Paprika Extract, Spirulina Algae, Turmeric, Salt, Potassium Citrate, Magnesium Gluconate, Canthaxanthin, Malic Acid, Guar Gum, Calcium Propionate, Methylparaben and Potassium Sorbate , Lecithin, Rosemary Extract and Mixed Tocopherols (as preservatives), Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Choline Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Beta Carotene, Pantothenic Acid, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement)_

There is nothing here that bothers me- _much_   The only ingredient I was not immediately sure about was 
_Choline Chloride_ = a nutrient necessary for animals / for maintenance of cell structure and function.

This does have mold inhibitors , however ?  ( _Methylparaben and Potassium Sorbate_) but "natural"

_Mixed Tocopherols_ ??? did not look this up , I believe it has something to with ( for humans - anyway) 
Vit E and antioxidants ? so I'm confused as to why its stated in the ingredients as being a "_perservative_"  

I'm no biochemist  

 :Butterfly:

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## Happy Frog

I've had many cultures taken over by mites.  Even when you transfer newly hatched flies into a new cup with fresh media the flies can bring along mites.  Sometimes you just have to throw everything out and start all over, just like you did.  A lot of my problems has been with cultures crashing because of the heat.  I think that flies stop breeding after it gets past 85 degrees.

I've never used it, but there is anti-mite shelf paper.  One on the businesses I get flies from here in CA sells it.  This person also sells really good, clean flies and cultures.

Bug Kill and M'Lady No Bugs Insecticidal Shelf and Drawer Paper and Covering for Mite Control

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## Lynn

> I've had many cultures taken over by mites.  Even when you transfer newly hatched flies into a new cup with fresh media the flies can bring along mites.  Sometimes you just have to throw everything out and start all over, just like you did.  A lot of my problems has been with cultures crashing because of the heat.  I think that flies stop breeding after it gets past 85 degrees.
> 
> I've never used it, but there is anti-mite shelf paper.  One on the businesses I get flies from here in CA sells it.  This person also sells really good, clean flies and cultures.
> 
> Bug Kill and M'Lady No Bugs Insecticidal Shelf and Drawer Paper and Covering for Mite Control


Hello Happ Frog !
Sorry, I don't know ( or remember) your name.

Yes ....this does work quite well.
However...I think I will stick to my double-sided tape idea.
I worry about the insecticide   :Frog Surprise: 
I'm suspicious they were in my culture media- anyway ( it was old )

Yes- agreed- It is best to dump all of them and start over.

You can put them aside and *wait-out* the life span of the mites. 
You still don't want to use them to make new cultures though.
This works ---they will start to reproduce again. 
But the frogs have to wait as well !  :Frown: 

The Repashy works like a charm ! FAST - too !

Lynn

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## Happy Frog

> Hello Happ Frog !
> Sorry, I don't know ( or remember) your name.
> 
> Yes ....this does work quite well.
> However...I think I will stick to my double-sided tape idea.
> I worry about the insecticide  
> I'm suspicious they were in my culture media- anyway ( it was old )
> 
> Yes- agreed- It is best to dump all of them and start over.
> ...



I just thought I'd throw it out there.  I know there are pros on DB that use the stuff and haven't had problems with it.

At first I didn't know what you meant by my name and then I started looking around the page and I realized that people have their username in parenthesis and a first name right above it.  I never really thought much of it.  I don't spend a lot of time looking around the site or the user profile section other than my photo album and adding pictures.  I really just look at what people write and reply back.  I don't believe I've ever given out to you.  Let my see if I can go and add it.

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## Carlos

Hi Lynn!  Do the mites swim?  If not; could place cultures on a tray with like 1/4 in. of water?  Also, wash hands well in case they use "hands" as a way in.  Now I'm starting to think of mites as armies planning an attack  :Big Grin:  !

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## Lynn

Hello *Bryan*  :Smile: 

You didn't have to add it.........unless you wanted to, of course.
I just have a thing about names.......is all

Yes... there is lots of information about the paper....pros and cons 
I question the _daily_  handling and possible transfer of the chemical into the PDF enclosures.

Don't know?
I guess by nature....... I take the better-safe-then-sorry route ? 

Best, *Lynn*

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## Happy Frog

I feel that maintaining fruit fly cultures is the hardest part of keeping PDFs.  When I first started, vivarium construction was the biggest mystery, I could never grasp how they were built and the materials used.  It just took a lot of reading and asking questions.  I was on DB for several years before I found out about this forum.  It actually took that long before I even attempted my first set-up and then I let it grow in for almost three months before I bought my first frogs.

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## Lynn

Thanks for your replies, Bryan

I've come to the conclusion, that we have to always make more than what we think we need.
There's nothing like not tons of flies in_ good cultures_ and not worrying about getting through the week  :Concern: 

I'm making a few once a week now . YES----a big pain.

 :Butterfly:

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## frogfreaks

This is another option for mite control. Essentially, it cuts any insect trying to get in or out of your cultures and kills them. But, it can be eaten by humans and other pets. 100% safe!

Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth 908g / 32oz. | DiatomaceousEarth.ca

This is how I have mine set up and have been using it for years.

[IMG]**********************/a/img585/9408/k2zm.jpg[/IMG]


The rack.

[IMG]**********************/a/img96/8428/dscf0167yv.jpg[/IMG]

Cheers!

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## frogfreaks

Hmmm, pics are working. Not sure why??

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## frogfreaks

> I feel that maintaining fruit fly cultures is the hardest part of keeping PDFs.


Hey, Bryan

Why do you feel that way? Myself, I'd rather make cultures than by crickets all the time.

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## Happy Frog

> Hey, Bryan
> 
> Why do you feel that way? Myself, I'd rather make cultures than by crickets all the time.


I guess it's the whole thing...the supplies, the mixing, the mites.  Have you ever made up three or four cultures exactly like before, and they go absolutely nowhere, and you have no idea why?

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## frogfreaks

> I guess it's the whole thing...the supplies, the mixing, the mites.  Have you ever made up three or four cultures exactly like before, and they go absolutely nowhere, and you have no idea why?


To be honest, I can't say that I have. I use Repashy, keep my room between 75-78F and always have the humidity at 55%. I get very consistent blooms. The key is the humidity. A dry culture is a dead culture. Heat is easy.

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## Bruce

Im curious as to how that double sided tape idea worked! My cultures are crashing for the same reason now...

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## Lynn

Hi Bruce ---- hope all is well, 

I had a bad run? 

I'm moving ( to a different location) any cultures that are past 3 weeks.

I have no 'new' mites ?
Anything is worth a try.
However, I may have gotten rid of them despite the tape since I  threw all of them away and started with new ones.

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving ! 
Lynn

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## Alex Shepack

I'm having the same problem Lynn! For the first time since i've started I found mites in some of my cultures.  I think I may just start over again.  I usually toss older cultures, but since I started using Hydei again I feel like I keep cultures around for too long. Sometimes I get so frustrated I think about signing up for a monthly delivery! Hahah

~Alex

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## Geo

I have to admit that I am a bit confused over the issue of mites and PDFs. My mantellas love the red mites that colonize my compost pile bin. It seems to be like candy to them. Do not other PDFs enjoy eating them as well? Is it just a matter of the mites continuously taking over the food cultures (which I can understand of course)?

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## Bruce

It is mostly a matter of mites in the cultures,  yes.   But I wouldn't necessarily want mites in my vivarium either (I'm sure most are harmless,  but still...)

Also.... couldn't the consumption of mites that are on the fruit flies potentially give a small percentage of the frog's toxicity back?

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## Geo

From what I understand from what I read a while back it is only certain mites/ants found in the PDFs natural habitats that contain the alkaloids that PDFs can convert to toxins although don't quote me on that (someone here may know better). I don't let the mites take over the housing. I usually remove a piece of avocado skin from the compost pile that is covered in the red mites. I place it on the "feeding rock" after which the mantellas quickly arrive and consume them all fairly quickly then I remove the avocado skin. Its been my method for a year now and it works fine for me. No mites showing up anywhere else (yet). In part the mantellas are too diligent in paying attention to what food sources are around them to let them escape/take over. I can't see any small/soft bug lasting long in the habitat along side them. If the toxins did return because of their diet (very unlikely from what I read) I have no worries as I almost never handle the mantellas directly, I use hypo surgical gloves when I handle them and I believe their natural toxin levels are not as drastic as other species. As of yet I have never seen any mites on the melanogaster FF that I feed the mantellas. My FF stock has been constantly bred from the original shipment I received from Understory in August. The best and easiest food source I have ever dealt with. I find springtails, meal worms, and crickets a bit more involved when raising them for food.

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## Alex Shepack

I wouldn't be all that concerned about mites and the frogs.  Like Geo said, I think they would be a great food source if nothing else.  It has been suggested that poison dart frogs sequester their toxins from mites, but i'm not sure that the mites infesting FF cultures are the same (I think i've found 3 different types of mites in my invertebrate cultures!).  I would also be really surprised if captive animals were consuming enough mites to regain toxicity (assuming those they're eating contain the necessary alkaloids).  

The biggest problem with having mites in tanks is that they pose a problem for springtails.  They notoriously infest springtail cultures as well and can cause them to crash. 

Mostly, the biggest problem with mites is that they cause problems with invertebrate cultures.  Unfortunately, I think it is nearly impossible to avoid them.  

Cheers!
Alex

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## kev48584

from what i hear you can add some distilled white vineagar to your new cultures to kill the mites but i never tried it so i'm not too sure if it works. i usually buy the mite powder which you can find on joshsfrogs site. pretty neat because you put it around the culture and it acts as a barrier.

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## Angela P

I bought some of the mite powder.  Does that go on the inside or outside of the  container?  It just says sprinkle around the base.
Also, where do I get mite paper?  Just lost all my cultures to mites.  Not a happy camper.

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## Angela P

Never mind where to get the paper.  I see the link.

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## Lynn

> I bought some of the mite powder.  Does that go on the inside or outside of the  container?  It just says sprinkle around the base.
> Also, where do I get mite paper?  Just lost all my cultures to mites.  Not a happy camper.


The powder is a good choice ( IMO) 
Lightly sprinkle it into a flat/ lid type container such as the lid to a big storage bin.
Cover the powder w/ paper towel . Set the cultures on the paper towel.

Wipe down the entire area where you store the cultures w/ rubbing alcohol.

Remove ALL mite infested cultures - *far away*- to a completely different area.
Start all new cultures. You DO NOT want to use the ones with with mites to make new cultures.

Old cultures are more prone to have mites.

Get in the habit of moving old cultures to a different location after 1 month.

Make new cultures with those that have been producing for about 10 days ---- this will insure the flies are mature enough to reproduce. 

Hope this helps
 :Butterfly:

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Heatheranne

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## Angela P

Big help!  Thanks!!

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## Angela P

All I have is infested cultures at the moment.  I'll order new flies and start over.  Thanks again.

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