# Frogs & Toads > African Bullfrogs >  Is latex paint safe to use for my situation?

## cyris69

I just bought some Rust-Oleum latex paint to use on my frog tank.
This is the exact product:
Rust-Oleum Painter's Touch Multi-Purpose Flat Black at Menards
MSDS links are available on that page

I want to know if I can use this product on the exterior glass area of the tank while the frogs are in there? I will have a fan blowing on it at all times until dry to move the fumes away from tank.

If this isn't safe to do I can move them to another tank but don't want to add that stress if not needed.

----------


## SCF

You do not want to use latex with your frog in there. It is good that you even know what a MSDS is though, kudos to you on that.

----------



----------


## cyris69

Should i completely remove them from the room? I also have my 55gallon roach tank in the same room as well which I can't remove, I know I should have thought about this before setting up the tank but completely spaced it.

This takes only 2-4 hours to completely dry will it be safe after that time period or longer?

----------


## SCF

I also use as much caution as possible when it comes to these things, that being said though, I have never tried to paint anything near any pets. I am in the environmental industry (Hazmat) and do air/water testing, we also go to great lengths and overboard in some situations when it comes to dealing with anything hazardous. Why not just remove the tank from the room?

----------


## cyris69

Main reason being that its large, full of heavy rocks, large water area also full. I don't want to risk breaking the glass as I don't have a spare to replace it. I can move the frogs out of the room since I have a temp 10gal already setup when the time comes to ever move them.

----------


## SCF

I would go that route then. It doesn't say on the link, is the paint 100% latex? Also looking through the msds, it says 

Odor:  Ammonia Like 

So when letting it dry, I would wait until there is no scent whatsoever. 

I don't know if you read this part: Engineering Controls: Prevent build-up of vapors by opening all doors and windows to achieve cross -ventilation. Use process enclosures, local exhaust ventilation, or other engineering controls to control airborne levels below

----------


## SCF

Well actually you already have your engineering controls in place with your fan, but i'm not sure how it would affect your feeders. Bill would be a good guy to have chime in... can someone call him..Bill..Biiillll!? Can you step away from the vivarium forum for a sec and come over here?

----------


## SCF

Just out of curiosity, do you have pics up of your setup on here? I wan't to check it out.  :Wink:

----------


## Colleen/Jerrod

Latex paint would be bad. When using rubber gloves to handle your frogs you must use non-latex gloves so latex paint is a no.

Edit; I just saw where you said exterior. Sorry. Well there will be fumes since most paints contain styrene which is quite toxic. It aid in the drying process as it evaporates. You would be better off to keep the frog in another tank until the paint drys. You will need to keep them in another room away from the drying paint. Frogs are extremely sensitive and it doesn't take much to cause death.

----------



----------


## cyris69

So what paint do I need to get to paint the outside glass?

----------


## SCF

I'm pretty sure acrylic is what you need. Any thoughts on the feeders Grif(s) ?

edit: -latex

on another board I see "Krylon Fusion" recommended a few times.

----------


## Colleen/Jerrod

> So what paint do I need to get to paint the outside glass?


I am not sure. I've never painted a Viv, but I work with a lot of chemicals. See what Bill has to say. Send him a PM.

----------


## Colleen/Jerrod

> I'm pretty sure acrylic is what you need. Any thoughts on the feeders Grif(s) ?
> 
> edit: -latex


You mean whether the latex could kill the feeders? Fumes will kill the feeders.

----------


## SCF

I edited my edit.  :Wink:

----------


## cyris69

Isn't acrylic chemical based vs water based for latex? I also read latex paints actually contain no latex and do not emit toxic fumes.

----------


## SCF

> Isn't acrylic chemical based vs water based for latex? I also read latex paints actually contain no latex and do not emit toxic fumes.


All of it contains chemicals. I think the code 4 page did bring Bill though.

----------


## bill

latex on the outside will work just fine, provided the work is done safely. i silicone in the same room (basement) that i keep all my animals in. i just ventilate well. i actually still had odor left over in my hisser tank when i added them, and they are fine. patience is not my virtue. ventilation is key.

i assume you are blacking out the tank? i used to paint my tanks, both aquariums and viv, but now i use black contact paper. 1 roll for $6 did my 75, my 60, a 55 and a 15. and, it's removable and can be used on another tank. best bang for the buck IMHO and you don't need to worry about any of your animals.

as far as latex and frogs, i get conflicting stuff on this. some forums say latex gloves are safe to handle frogs with, and others say no. i am quite positive Grif could shed some light on this one. but on the outside of the tank, it is 100% safe.

----------


## Colleen/Jerrod

Now that Bill is here I'll let him handle it.

----------


## cyris69

Ok, so safe for exterior so long as there are no inhabitants during drying/aeration. I can remove the babies from that room until dry/no fumes. 

I do not want to kill my dubia as I have a large colony. So, I guess my only option now is to disassemble the tank and paint elsewhere? Do I also need to remove/replace the substrate?

----------


## bill

is it's only going to be a few hours, why not cover the top of the roach tank with plastic wrap. it will keep any fumes out of it.

----------


## Colleen/Jerrod

> latex on the outside will work just fine, provided the work is done safely. i silicone in the same room (basement) that i keep all my animals in. i just ventilate well. i actually still had odor left over in my hisser tank when i added them, and they are fine. patience is not my virtue. ventilation is key.
> 
> i assume you are blacking out the tank? i used to paint my tanks, both aquariums and viv, but now i use black contact paper. 1 roll for $6 did my 75, my 60, a 55 and a 15. and, it's removable and can be used on another tank. best bang for the buck IMHO and you don't need to worry about any of your animals.
> 
> as far as latex and frogs, i get conflicting stuff on this. some forums say latex gloves are safe to handle frogs with, and others say no. i am quite positive Grif could shed some light on this one. but on the outside of the tank, it is 100% safe.


There is a lot of conflicting information on the proper gloves to use. I never take chances. Latex can severly irritate our skin and since theirs is much more sensitive than ours I don't feel their safe. I believe Neoprene is fine.

I'm not an expert on the whole rubber gloves usage since I myself prefer to use my bare hands cleaned, dried, and remoistened with dechlorinated water. Anyone who has recommended rubber gloves has recommened non-latex.

----------


## Colleen/Jerrod

> is it's only going to be a few hours, why not cover the top of the roach tank with plastic wrap. it will keep any fumes out of it.


This could work.

----------


## cyris69

Then could I do that with the frog tank as well or would they suffocate? I don't mind transferring them but would rather save them the stress if not needed.

----------


## SCF

> Then could I do that with the frog tank as well or would they suffocate? I don't mind transferring them but would rather save them the stress if not needed.


I would not take that chance. The fumes being more of a concern. The wrap will not be 100% air tight.

----------


## bill

> There is a lot of conflicting information on the proper gloves to use. I never take chances. Latex can severly irritate our skin and since theirs is much more sensitive than ours I don't feel their safe. I believe Neoprene is fine.
> 
> I'm not an expert on the whole rubber gloves usage since I myself prefer to use my bare hands cleaned, dried, and remoistened with dechlorinated water. Anyone who has recommended rubber gloves has recommened non-latex.


thanks Grif, i wasn't sure. i use the clean moistened hand method myself and go by the rule of "if unsure, just don't do it"

----------


## bill

> Then could I do that with the frog tank as well or would they suffocate? I don't mind transferring them but would rather save them the stress if not needed.


i would remove any frogs in the tank you are working on. just to be on the safe side. why take the chance. safest way would be the black contact paper i suggested, no fumes, no needing to move any animals. saves you AND your frogs a LOT of stress.

----------


## cyris69

Thanks everyone! I will go ahead and paint tomorrow. I will transfer the little ones into another tank and cover the painted tank to be with plastic wrap as well as the roach tank. It says completely dry in 2-4 hours, so should I wait longer than 4 before placing them back?

EDIT: Ok, I guess it would be easier/better to take the paper approach if they will let me return the paint, wonder if menards sells the construction/contact paper. Can you link me to some so I can an idea of what paper to get exactly since I don't think construction paper comes in rolls.

----------


## SCF

> i would remove any frogs in the tank you are working on. just to be on the safe side. why take the chance. safest way would be the black contact paper i suggested, no fumes, no needing to move any animals. saves you AND your frogs a LOT of stress.


Do you have any pics of a tank with the contact paper? I think the paint would look better, but with all the safety concerns, doesn't seem worth it.

----------


## bill

> Thanks everyone! I will go ahead and paint tomorrow. I will transfer the little ones into another tank and cover the painted tank to be with plastic wrap as well as the roach tank. It says completely dry in 2-4 hours, so should I wait longer than 4 before placing them back?


only you will be able to answer that. if the paint is dry and no fumes, then they should be safe for a happy homecoming.  :Smile:

----------


## cyris69

I really want a permanent solution for the tank to be honest but I do not want to hurt my babies. I've used construction paper in the past and doesn't look that great especially for a display tank.

----------


## bill

> Do you have any pics of a tank with the contact paper? I think the paint would look better, but with all the safety concerns, doesn't seem worth it.


bottom left is contact paper

----------



----------


## SCF

That looks clean to me.  :Wink:  Thanks Bill. Are you going to be on stand by, sleeping in your comp chair, waiting for forum pages/emergencies? You never know when a code 8 or a code 174 might happen.

----------


## bill

when seen through the tank. before :


after:


forgive the pics, they are a year or so old and i just started that particular tank. it's now a white's tree frog haven  :Smile:

----------


## cyris69

Well, Menards only has white/metallic contact paper which i've never of heard of but looks legit being as its adhesive and comes in 18" heights. However black at Home Depot is 33$+ per roll for black.

----------


## bill

> That looks clean to me.  Thanks Bill. Are you going to be on stand by, sleeping in your comp chair, waiting for forum pages/emergencies? You never know when a code 8 or a code 174 might happen.


no problem. i WAS working on a 6 foot dripwall when you guys rang...LOL i'm always but a pm away  :Smile:

----------


## bill

> Well, Menards only has white/metallic contact paper which i've never of heard of but looks legit being as its adhesive and comes in 18" heights. However black at Home Depot is 33$+ per roll for black.


no way!! i bought mine at home depot. it's in the kitchen section, look for shelf paper  :Smile:

----------


## cyris69

Ok I found this, Con-Tact Solid Grip 48 in. x 18 in. Black Drawer/Shelf Liner for 6$

However I would like it to be adhesive for a cleaner tighter look.

----------


## Lynn

I use vinyl gloves to handle my frogs. I ditched the latex after I went through a long illness / a  black eyed tree frog????

I have painted the exterior of two tall tanks with acrylic latex base , glass paint.... while my frogs were in the tanks.
This occurred in the summer/in my basement/ with a fan on.
Neither paint job was associated with a problem w/ any of my tree frogs. 
But (like Bill mentions )the I was working in area that was well ventilated, as well.
If *you* smell it ....... it simply means you will want to ventilate the area!

----------



----------


## bill

i want to say this is the stuff i used, but not 100% sure. Premium Grip 120 in. x 18 in. Stone Shelf Liner-10F-C6Y3L-15VP at The Home Depot 
it's one of those "i need to see it and have it in my hands items". walmart and kmart and target and all those places carry it as well.

----------



----------


## bill

> I use vinyl gloves to handle my frogs. I ditched the latex after I went through a long illness / a  black eyed tree frog????
> 
> I have painted the exterior of two tall tanks with acrylic latex base , glass paint.... while my frogs were in the tanks.
> This occurred in the summer/in my basement/ with a fan on.
> Neither paint job was associated with a problem w/ any of my tree frogs. 
> But (like Bill mentions )the I was working in area that was well ventilated, as well.
> If *you* smell it ....... it simply means you will want to ventilate the area!


there ya go. can't beat the words of experience  :Smile:

----------


## cyris69

Ok cool  :Smile:  maybe I will paint just provide lots of ventilation. I have two big fans I can use. Might open the windows but its only going to be 50F tomorrow.

----------


## bill

50??? i would be working in shorts if it was going to be 50!LOL

----------


## cyris69

True it is a nice adjustment but in Indiana you can have thunderstorms and tornadoes one day and a blizzard the next  :Smile:  which did happen rather recently. Been in the low teens/20's for a while then we get a nice day like tomorrow then the next will be back to cold again lol

----------


## bill

Oh, i know it gets cold as a dickens there. Spent a week in Indianapolis a few years back during the winter. I would never make that mistake again.....lol

----------


## SCF

65 degrees here tomorrow.  :Wink:  What is a sweatshirt and pants?

----------


## Brian

About the latex gloves, here's an interesting pdf I just found from the Association of Zoos and Aquariums on the handling of amphibians (this is a 5mb, 236 page pdf):

http://www.aza.org/uploadedFiles/Con...ourceGuide.pdf

It recommends non-powdered latex or vinyl gloves for amphibians, but suggests (page 121) that latex gloves may be harmful to tadpoles and other larvae.

They cite this study,

Cashins, S., R.A. Alford, and L.F. Skerratt. 2008. Lethal effect of latex, nitrile, and vinyl gloves
on tadpoles. Herpetological Review 39:298-301.

Whose full pdf (yayy!) is available here Lethal effect of latex, nitrile, and vinyl gloves on tadpoles - ResearchOnline@JCU

(I haven't read it yet, but the summary suggests well rinsed vinyl is less hazardous then nitrile or latex)

----------

GrifTheGreat

----------


## Lynn

> About the latex gloves, here's an interesting pdf I just found from the Association of Zoos and Aquariums on the handling of amphibians (this is a 5mb, 236 page pdf):
> 
> http://www.aza.org/uploadedFiles/Con...ourceGuide.pdf
> 
> It recommends non-powdered latex or vinyl gloves for amphibians, but suggests (page 121) that latex gloves may be harmful to tadpoles and other larvae.
> 
> They cite this study,
> 
> Cashins, S., R.A. Alford, and L.F. Skerratt. 2008. Lethal effect of latex, nitrile, and vinyl gloves
> ...


Thanks Brian. Great information!!!!  It's exciting when you 'get'  the complete PDF and not merely an abstract! If you come across something you can't access; let me know. I can likely get it for you  :Smile: , and I'm confident you will use proper citation.  :Wink:  

I never_ used_ gloves w/powder but was using latex for a bit.  :Frown: 
Powdered free vinyl from now on. 
Common sense ! 

Lynn

----------


## cyris69

tank black out is almost complete just doing small portions here and there. I didn't notice really any smell from the paint itself. Just need to finish the 3rd coat on the left panel then its done  :Smile:

----------


## bill

hey Kevin. how did this turn out for ya? any pics?

----------


## cyris69

Turned out great, got side tracked lately but its 90% done, no issues that I've observed. I will post pics soon.

Funny thing is they can now really see their reflection sometimes thinking it's another frog.

----------

