# Other Animals > Other Amphibians >  Snails and Axolotls

## amphib

Is it safe to keep snails in with a axolotl and is it safe if they eat the snail. Also if it is to big for them do they spit it out and loose interest or do they choke them selves.

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## Boomsloth

The only snails that can be kept with axolotls, assuming the axolotl is over 5in in length, are bladder/pond snails. Apple/mystery snails are way too large and will cause problems because the axolotls will try to eat them. MTS and large ramshorn snails are also problem snails because they tend to have very hard shells and can cause internal damage or impaction. To an axolotl a snail is a snail so most will almost always try to eat anything they think is food.

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## Tongue Flicker

I personally don't trust any snail with a captive-bred axolotl. Even small (a few millimeters long) softer-bodied shrimps are known to cause impactions. Better safe than sorry. Axolotls are not that delicate though it's not worth taking the risk

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## amphib

Ok so no snails got it, but is there another method that is axolotl safe to get ride of the algae

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## limnologist

Axolotls eat snails in the wild, but, maybe if the snail is large enough, it will be fine. I don't like snails for algea removal however. If you are skilled at keeping fish, you can use a bristlenose pleco. Ive accustomed mine to colder temps and have dwarfed it in a small tank, its the same size of the axie and has never hurt it. you might be able to try that, but I warn you that it takes skill.

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## Boomsloth

Even my smaller axolotls (~6in) eat and pass bladder snails without issue. However bladder snails aren't the best for algae. Ramshorn and nerite are great for algae but have tougher larger shells that can cause impaction. Bristle nose Plecos are not a good option since the axolotl will grow much quicker and IF it tries to eat the pleco the pleco will get lodged in the axolotls throat. Plecos have been known to attach onto slow axolotls and suck of their slime coats. I recommend just scraping off the algae once a week and performing more water changes to remove excess nutrients 


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## Boomsloth

> Axolotls eat snails in the wild, but, maybe if the snail is large enough, it will be fine. I don't like snails for algea removal however. If you are skilled at keeping fish, you can use a bristlenose pleco. Ive accustomed mine to colder temps and have dwarfed it in a small tank, its the same size of the axie and has never hurt it. you might be able to try that, but I warn you that it takes skill.


How the hell did you dwarf it?! Do you mean stunt it's growth and thereby shorten it's life expectancy? And how small are your axolotls to be the same size as a dwarfed bristle nose pleco? I'm assuming you haven't had the pleco that long


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## limnologist

Bristlenose plecos are more placid than others.

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## limnologist

Reptiles, amphibians and fish all grow to accommodate their habitats when they are captive, the only way to stunt the growth of an animal without causing any harm whatsoever is to place it in a habitat that would be too small if it were an adult. This only works with babies and I have yet to find adverse affects. (I've been doing it for about ten years). The pleco is about 4 years old, albino, female, still breeds, and is perfectly healthy. It is 3 inches long and the axis is 6. The pleco is way too wide for the axis to try to eat it however. 
This isnt too much of a dwarfing (considering bristlenose plecos only get about 6 inches long). Once i dwarfed a common pleco (usually a foot long) down to 5 inches. Its about 9 years old now, it was one of my first projects. I gave him to a friend in Illinois.

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## Boomsloth

I really don't know if you are serious or not but other than breeding smaller there is no healthy way to 'dwarf' any species by keeping it in too small a container without causing some problems. The fact your axolotl is only 6 inches shows its either still not yet an adult or you decided to 'dwarf' this too and i'd be curious if it lives even close to the expected 10 yr lifespan. This is terrible advice because I can guarantee if I put even my largest bristle nose pleco whose 5in with my smaller axolotls they can still eat him. Even if you haven't found adverse affects on what is basically stunting an animals growth, many others have and have documented it which would provide you a very enlightening read. We've all 'dwarfed' that goldfish we got at the fair when we were young and _maybe_ it lived a year or two but considering they can live decades and get over a foot (trust me I know) it doesn't mean stunting it was okay in any way.

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## limnologist

> I really don't know if you are serious or not but other than breeding smaller there is no healthy way to 'dwarf' any species by keeping it in too small a container without causing some problems. The fact your axolotl is only 6 inches shows its either still not yet an adult or you decided to 'dwarf' this too and i'd be curious if it lives even close to the expected 10 yr lifespan. This is terrible advice because I can guarantee if I put even my largest bristle nose pleco whose 5in with my smaller axolotls they can still eat him. Even if you haven't found adverse affects on what is basically stunting an animals growth, many others have and have documented it which would provide you a very enlightening read. We've all 'dwarfed' that goldfish we got at the fair when we were young and _maybe_ it lived a year or two but considering they can live decades and get over a foot (trust me I know) it doesn't mean stunting it was okay in any way.


Its still growing, and the pleco will grow with every tank upgrade that I give it and the axie. I dont know whats up with everyones pets, but, my plecos have never bothered my axies (probably because they are content with their food) and my axies never bother the plecos (probably cause they also are content with their food).

The animals only stay small when i keep them in a small cage, when they are given more space, they grow to accomodate it. This is very obviously true with fish. any aquarist (being one myself) and any pond keeper can tell you that fish will only grow to acommodate their habitats. All the animals that I have ever "dwarfed" are still alive or lived their full life span.

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## Boomsloth

Idk what you consider full life span but just because it's body looks like it hasn't grown it's internal organs grow. This is called stunting a fish which can and does cause problems down the road. Why don't you do a google search on stunting a fish's growth and I'm sure you'll see that there's no healthy way to do that besides breeding programs. 


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## bill

I'm going to post this again from another thread. 

Sorry, but no disrespect intended here Cayton, but you "dwarfed" nothing. Dwarfism, as I am hoping you know already, is a genetic mutation. You did not breed them over multiple generations, isolating particular genes to keep them small. What you did is called stunting. It's basically intentionally denying proper care to slow the metabolism of the animal so that they are "surviving". The bare minimum. 



The reason the bristle nose stayed small is because the bristle nose plexi is a small species to begin with. Rarely does a bristle nose attain more that 4" 



I have been keeping fish for well over 30 years and everytime this claim is made, it's the same thing. It's not science, it's just plain old poor husbandry. Sorry to be blunt.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

> Idk what you consider full life span but just because it's body looks like it hasn't grown it's internal organs grow. This is called stunting a fish which can and does cause problems down the road. Why don't you do a google search on stunting a fish's growth and I'm sure you'll see that there's no healthy way to do that besides breeding programs. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed. This is a case of stunting. Time after time it has been scientifically proved that with proper care, a large animal WILL out grow it's enclosure. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## limnologist

Bristle nose plecos usually get around 6 inches long. The word dwarfing is too broad of a description. What I'm trying to explain is, a fishes growth hormones are influenced by heat, food activity, light, waste pH, and space. If you are skilled enough, you can control those and keep the fish from growing without causing harm. One slightly OK example would be a channel catfish from a lake compared to one from a river. The river cat is bigger because there is more food, more space, a stronger current, and different water conditions. If you can replicate that in a home aquarium, you can keep the fish from growing until the living conditions are changed.

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## limnologist

> Idk what you consider full life span but just because it's body looks like it hasn't grown it's internal organs grow. This is called stunting a fish which can and does cause problems down the road. Why don't you do a google search on stunting a fish's growth and I'm sure you'll see that there's no healthy way to do that besides breeding programs. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Any ichthyologist with a brain could tell you that fish are very adaptable and grow according to their conditions.

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## Lija

Cayton, giving you a benefit of a doubt that you haven't seen your second warning yet. 
 So im not pursuing it further now, however before posting i strongly suggest for you to review Frog Forum - FrogForum Terms of Use (Rules)

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## Boomsloth

Please post the papers the ichthyologists have written that support your claim in the aquarium setting. I have no doubt that a fish given significant space and food like in a lake will grow larger than other settings, but aquariums are just not the same. I asked my teacher during lab if he's come across anything that would support your statements and even he whose worked with almost all types of animals and their hormone responses said that there is no way to limit its environment and not cause stress. so please post the studies.

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## limnologist

> Please post the papers the ichthyologists have written that support your claim in the aquarium setting. I have no doubt that a fish given significant space and food like in a lake will grow larger than other settings, but aquariums are just not the same. I asked my teacher during lab if he's come across anything that would support your statements and even he whose worked with almost all types of animals and their hormone responses said that there is no way to limit its environment and not cause stress. so please post the studies.


gladly, once im back from vacation.

I need to prove that fish groth hormones react to their surroundings. It's a flaw in nature for a fish that has insides that will continuosly grow despite the body not growing (considering both outside and inside parts grow according to the other). I have no idea how somebody stunnted a fish and how they made its insides grow continuosly, its rather strange sounding.

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## Tongue Flicker

amazing @__@ I've been gone for a while for my Asian tour and came back reading this LOL..

anyways @OT: hope you found a solution to your algae problems already. happy axie keeping!  :Big Grin:

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