# Frogs & Toads > Pacman Frogs >  HELP PLEASE!! pacman feeding problem

## Abe

Hey guys im really Hoping i can get some help. I have a young pacman frog, about a year old, and lately ive been having trouble when feeding him. I usually throw crickets in his tank but when the crickets pass by him he simply opens his mouth but Doesnt stick his tongue out so he doesnt catch them. I bought feeding tongs but when i manage to get one in his mouth he struggles to swallow it. I know pacmans are voracious feeders and he looks thin. Im really concerned thank you for your help.

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## Heather

Are you using a calcium with vitamin D3 supplement? 

How long have you had him? Has he ever eaten for you or is this a change?

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## Abe

I feed the crickets Food with calcium and D3. He usually will readily take his food but now he lets the crickets walk by him without sticking his tongue out, but if i put a cricket by his mouth ,with the tongs, he just opens his mouth and i have to put it in his mouth but when he has it in he doesnt swallow right away

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## limnologist

do you notice anything unusual in his mouth when he opens it? does he lunge for the food? have you tried feeding anything other than crickets and are the food items possibly exposed to some chemicals?

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## Abe

And ive had him for about a year

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## Abe

I havent seen anything in his mouth. Im not sure what you mean by lunge i only feed him crickets. I keep the crickets in an ice cream tub with egg cartons.

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## limnologist

since youve had him for a year, obviously youve fed him before. when did he start having trouble eating? 

By "lunge" I mean jumping towards the food and biting it instead of using his tongue.

do you clean the cricket cage often? Also, unlike a lot of the hobbiests here, I dont disagree with not using supplement powders but only because I feed my pets insects that I feed fresh fruits and other such things, also, I feed them various types of insects. My recommendations is that you feed those crickets well and that you get some other prey items to feed the frog I.E - earthworms, mealworms, superworms, waxworms, grasshoppers, minnows, guppies, leopard frogs and bullfrogs, baby mammals, ect.

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## WorldClassFrogCoddler

Sorry to hear about your frog not doing too well. I think you are having this problem because the frog isnmt getting enough vitamins and minerals. You should do some research about it on your own because some of it is kind of complicated, but itms not too hard to find a schedule that works for you. 

You will need to purchase some powders from the pet store, one will be called calcium with d-three, which you will need to use every other night. On those nights, you should alternate with regular calcium with no d-three, because too much can be as bad as too little.

You'll also need to get some multivitamin powder from the same place, which will be something you use once a week, but not on a night with any other powders.

My frog Bubba once became very sick and weak, and lost the use of her front legs entirely. she could barely move. I got the proper powders and within a day or two she was back to normal. Now, many months later, she is as sturdy as a brick house and as muscular as a pro wrestler. She's healthy and happy and I owe it all to the advice from this forum. Hope you can turn the little guy's health around. 

By the way, I am not an expert so you may wish to wait for some more knowledgable folks. Good luck!

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## Carlos

Hello and welcome to FF Abe  :Smile:  !  Sorry your Pacman is not well.  Please answer the below posted questions to see if we can identify cause.  

Also, how many crickets did you used to "throw in" the enclosure?  Did you removed the uneaten one's within a few hours?  What do you gut load the crickets with?  In the mean time, head out to Walmart or a local bait shop and get some not dyed night crawlers.  A year old Pacman (+ 3 in. snout to vent) should be able to handle those whole.  Try dangling worm in front of frog's mouth or dropping it in front of it without worm hitting the frog's nose.  If frog eat's it; then feed as many as it will take and update thread.  Good luck  :Smile:  !

*Trouble in the Frog Enclosure*
The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.

1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area.
16. How old is the frog
17. How long have you owned him/her
18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
20. How often the frog is handled
21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.

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## Lija

Yeah, ill wait for these q to be answered, and would you pls post pic of the enclosure and a frog itself.

 It can be anything from nothing to something.

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## Abe

I started having feeding problems with him about four months ago. He doesnt really lunge at the food but sometimes he does a pushup motion. I clean the cricket tub entirely about twicr a month. I normally use to throw about 3-4 crickets in the tank but now i throw about 5-6 in the hope that he eats some, i feed him at night and try to remove the crickets the next day. He wasnt eating regurlarly until a couple months ago because he was my little brothers pet but he was neglecting him, so i started caring for him. I feed the crickets Fluckers High Calcium Cricket Diet.
·The enclosure is about 15 in. Width and lenght and about 30 in. Height
·"Frank" my frog, lives alone
·i spray the tank once daily
·he is at room temp. No heat
·i use tap water with Aquasafe For Reptiles and Amphibians
·he is in cocofiber substrate mixed with some organic fertilizer for the plants
·his tank has some live golden pothos and peat moss. I mixed some cocofiber and fertilizer and added them above a layer of rocks for drainage, then i washed the plants roots and planted them in the viv.
·i feed him only crickets so far
·i feed the crickets a calcium and vitamins mix 
·his tank is next to a window and he gets some sunlight, so do the plants
·i am not using any specific heating he is at room temp.
·he ate yesterday 7/9/14 he had one cricket that i put in his mouth
·yes, i cleaned some poop less than a week ago
·What i consider symtoms is that he wont stick his tongue out and lets crickets walk right by. When i feed him with tongs he'll open his mouth and i try to get a cricket in although he struggles to swallow it. He sometimes looks like hes shaking or doing pushups.
·He is about a year old
·ive been caring for him for about 3-4 months
·im not sure if hes captive or wild caught he was purchased at Petco.
·i only feed crickets
·he is never handled except in rare occassions like when i planted his tank
·the enclosure is kept in a moderatly trafficked area
·i havent changed the substrate in about 3 months and i spot clean for poop, cricket parts, and dead plant matter.

·ill try to have pics up asap thanks alot guys i truly appreciate your help and time

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## Abe



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## Lija

It is not good!  I was kinda hoping it is nothing and he just refused to waste his energy on tiny prey like crickets, but that is not the case, he is severely malnourished, stunted and toxic out. I bet he is no more then 2", am i right? we will try to fix it. It is too late now to go buy anything, so that is what you need to do today. 
 Take him out of his cage asap, place him in a water bath. Do you have unflavoured pedyalite? If you do add it to his water bath 5 parts of water, 1 part of pedyalite.  Water should be warm, no higher then frogs chin. Keep him in there for 20 min. While doing so, take everything out of the cage, disinfect it and put in exo earth (plantation soil). Do not mix it with anything. If you dont have that today, just plain wet papertowels will work until tomorrow. Add artificial plants if you have any, if not anything he can hide under, cover 3 sides of the tank with anything not see through. 
that would be it for today, i will reply what is next tomorrow, gotta go now.

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## Carlos

I'll add to what Lija started; but please do read this care guide since your frog's life depends on it:  Frog Forum - Pacman and Horned Frogs - Ceratophrys - Care and Breeding.

Never use any kind of plant fertilizer or any chemicals in a frog enclosure!  Shredded coco substrate should be mixed with dechlorinated tap water until slightly damp and clumps in fist without dripping water out.  It should be spot cleaned as required and changed (all of it) monthly.  Plants can be kept in pots with ABG soil only and really are not recommended with Pacmans because the frog will trample them.  A silk plant is all you need in there.

Your enclosure is huge and could be stressing out the frog.  For a Pacman less than 3 in. a 5 gal. tank is more than enough.  Only thing needed in there is the substrate, dechlorinated tap in water dish (changed daily), and a silk plant.

Get a digital thermometer and hygrometer so you can adjust the temperature to 82-84F day time with a few degrees drop at night.  This is very important because Pacman's exposed to cold temps can develop permanent kidney and lymph heart damage.  The humidity should be between 70-80%.  You can heat the tank with a 60W Ceramic Heat Emitter on a dome with a dimer you can control or use a thermostat.  Or can also use a red incandescent bulb of a wattage that will get you those temps.  If required, can use aluminum foil to cover most (I cover my whole top and cut out a hole for light fixture just making it 1 in. bigger all around) to help keep heat and humidity in. 

In it's condition, the unflavored Pedialyte 80F bath (or similar baby electrolyte) Lija mentioned can be very good.  You can try feeding the night crawler after returning frog to it's cleaned out enclosure.  For frogs smaller than 3 in. you can cut the worm from pointy end same length as frog.  If frog does not eat, then let us know.  Force feeding a nutritious mix might be required.  Crickets should be sized same or smaller than distance between frogs eyes and gut loaded with carrots, lettuce, and cherios cereal.  The staple food should be the night crawlers, not the crickets.  Hope this helps and good luck  :Smile:  !

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## Lija

Right  i didnt noticed the dimensions of the tank  :Smile: 

So Carlos had covered  husbandry. 
Ill do vet part. You will need to do water baths with pedialyte for at least 3-4 days, you need to flush toxins out. You will also need to get reptiboost and use it, you can coat nightcrawlers with it or even crickets if he refuses worms, but just to feed reptiboost, for a food use inly nightcrawlers. They have the best ca/d balance and easy digestible.
See how it is going, you will most likely need to force feed critical care formula, but if he eats nightcrawlers it is not needed. Yet. 
Pls update us how it is going, we might suggest different game plan accordingly.

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## Abe

I cleaned his tank And disinfected it. I also put him on moist paper towels and covered his viv almost entirely with a towel. I have a thrmostat and a temp-Gun. For the substrate, do i change it once a month while in this condition or is that in general?

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## Lija

That is in general, you need to change it every month, but wet papertowels you need to change every day.
you will also need to get ca/vitd3 powder (every second feeding) and multivitamin powder ( once a week or less depending on how often he eats), but that is later, now you need reptiboost +feed him as much as he can eat every single day. 

I also think fecal exam would be a good idea to do.

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## Abe

I gave Frank His pedialyte bath tonight. After his bath i tried feeding him the crawlers but he didnt take it. I also tried to feed him a Reptaboost dusted cricket but he didnt take it unfortunatly.today i bought all his things for his new setup and he will be housed in a much smaller viv. Thanks alot guys God bless you.

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## Abe

I gave Frank his second pedialyte bath tonight. I also set up his new viv and tried to feed him again but he didnt eat  :Frown: . Im really afraid he might die because he looks really weak. He seems really defensive also.

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## Abe

Here are some pics of his new setup, I would of had his heat ready but the heat emitter I bought didn't fit the dome I had .

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## Lija

Do you have proper humidity and temps now?  For best feeding response try to feed him at night, about 30 min after lights are off and temps drop. 
 He doesnt look good in that pic. Time to force feed him if he doesnt eat on his own. You can start with nightcrawlers coated with reptiboost, cut a piece from pointy end of nightcrawler, coat it with reptiboost and force feed him 1 chunk today, if he is all right, then 2-3 tomorrow. The best would be to force feed critical care formula ( for cats and dogs, available at vet clinics), but it is a bit tricky to feed it when it is your first time  feeding. 
 How to force feed. The best to have a helper who would hold a frog steady, then use plastic card to gently open his mouth and as soon as he do that stick a piece of worm in his mouth. The procedure is stressful but at this point i dont think you have time to waste. You can try to annoy him to open his mouth on his own, gently rub his lips with a worm, sometimes that annoy them to the point they bite and eat it. Try. If not happening force feed. Carry on on pedyalyte baths. 


Keep in mind your temps have to be in proper range.

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## Abe

I cant go to the store to get the light fixture until tomorrow. Should i still try to force feed him? His temp is at mid seventees.

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## Lija

That is too low for a day. 
 Yes tonight try to feed him ( annoying) to start with, if it is not happening force feed, but one chunk of nightcrawler ( length equaldistance  between eyes), coated with reptiboost only. 

 When you get lamp or uth( attached to the side) make sure you dont have huge temp jump. From 75 go for no more then 80 ( day) and then you will have night temp drop fir a few degrees and the following day you can go for 82.

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## Abe

Sure thing. Thanks alot Lija i appreciate your help greatly. Ill update on the progress

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## Lija

You're welcome, hope he is gonna be all right eventually. Good luck with feeding.

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## Abe

I set up Franks heat now. His temp might vary from either 81F or 87F because of the temp guns error margin. Ill feed him again tonight. I was wondering if pacmans like their temps high. The vivs temp varies around the surface so i figure he can regulate as he pleases.

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## Carlos

Temp guns read surface temperature, not the air, which is the reading you need.  Recommend get a thermometer that reads the air temp, even if it's one of those glass enclosed ones for aquariums.  Stable the temp between 82-84F daytime with a few degree drop at night.

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## Abe

Are termometers pretty accurate or are they an estimate as well?

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## Lija

Digital ones are more accurate with a probe attached to the dead centre of the back wall about 2" above the substrate. I use temp gun as a back up and check the thermometers readings. In some tanks i dont have termometers, so i just use temp gun. It is pretty accurate when you point from farther away to cover bigger area.

 Ultimately nothing is 100% reliable, it is all various degrees of accuracy. I never rely on just one gadget per tank. In incubator i have2 different brands of thermometers + controller build in incubator itself and im using my themp gun once in a while.

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## bill

Nothing beats an old fashioned glass mercury thermometer IMHO  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Abe

So so far ive given Frank about four pedialyte baths and force fed him three times but he'll only eat a small piece of reptaboost dusted crawlers per night because he has trouble swallowing it or it takes him a while. I feed him at about 9:30 pm and cant wait too long for him to swallow to give him another piece because i have to be up at 4:20am for work. Should i try feeding him in the evening and at night in order to get more food and reptaboost in him?

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## Lija

:Smile:  i see we are on a same schedule lol nice coming home early, isnt it? Sucks to wake up early as much lol

You know you dont have to feed a guy at 9:30. Lights in our reptile room and on at 7:30, down and 7:30 in summer, this way i have time to do everything before bed time. They turn off earlier in winter. But really if you prefer feeding in the morning, that is fine, because morning for some people still evening  :Smile:  

 It doesnt matter when, some would eat and during a day, as long as he eating, stuff him as much as possible, you can offer food at night and morning. For your frog the smaller portions given more frequent the better.

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## Abe

Unfortunately i wake up early because i have a two hour drive to work lol. Ill try to feed him three times a day. I was wondering how you feed your frogs crawlers. Do you always cut them because that sounds like a waste of worms hehe

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## Abe

Also should i continue with the baths?

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## Lija

Yes continue with baths for another day or two, then just let him be and just feed.

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## limnologist

Can you make your frog try to bite you? Cause I would do that to frogs that wouldn't eat and shoved food in their mouths once opened, after that, they figured out what the food was.

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## Abe

Usually i would rub his lips with the food and get him to open his mouth but recently he hasnt done that. I meant if im always gonna have to cut the worms or do the frogs ever eat worms whole.

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## Lija

Yes, you will be able to eventually. The reasoning behind cutting into small pieces for a frog to be able to fit in his stomach whatever he is biting, that is how babies are fed and small frogs too. In your case you gotta be careful giving small portions more often, but look for his reaction, he might not want to eat more then a piece a day, dont force him.

 How he is feeing in general?

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## Abe

He doesnt eat on his own. Ive been force feeding him, i feel pretty bad about stressing him like that but i do it hoping he will have the energy to take the food on his own.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> He doesnt eat on his own. Ive been force feeding him, i feel pretty bad about stressing him like that but i do it hoping he will have the energy to take the food on his own.


Find a product called Repta Boost. Use that to force feed him. You can also contact a vet about getting some Lefeber Carnivor care. Very good at helping their systems restart and get their appetite back.

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## Abe

Ive been heavily dusting his crawlers with reptaboost. I thought he would be fine by now but maybe hes just too stressed out. Tomorrow ill try to tong feed him and see his response. Thanks for the advice i appreciate any help i can get  :Smile:

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## Abe

Also im yet to find a vet that adequatly cares for reptiles/amphibians but as soon as i do ill make sure to do a full check up on him

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## Carlos

Abe, as long as you cut the worm pieces (sharp scissors work OK) from the worm's pointy end (away from flatter head); the worm will survive and regrow the lost piece.  That way you will not kill a worm with every feeding.

Here are some listings to help find a veterinary:  Arav and Herp Vet Connection.  Good luck  :Smile:  !

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## Abe

Thanks alot carlos i did notice that Aftet i cut the worm it still survived for a while. I have a question, how did you guys spot the problems with my frog? I think the malnourishment was evident but what about the toxivity and the lack of growth. I just want to know in case i need the info later

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## Lija

That is easy  :Smile:  just read your answers to the questions and it was OMG  :Smile: 

 first omg was when i read what you are using for soil, saw pics + cleaning his cage the way it used to be - toxicity
then i just went with the rest of the questions - no supplements, crickets only, the way frog looked, its size too, that it is difficult for him to swallow or catch prey. Things like that. Actually the fact he is still alive shows he really wants to live, thank you for helping him!

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## Abe

Yeah my little brother wasnt very attentive. My mom basically bought him on impulse and they wouldnt feed him for long periods of time. I really enjoy animals and decided to "help" him take care of frank at first but i knew he wasnt well. His name was "the frog" before i took him lol

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## Lija

You know ill tell you this, my first frog, the one in the avatar was rescue, different situation and way different level of neglect then yours. Worse by much. I have no idea how he managed to live through it. It was a very long battle to get him recover, about 7-8 months i think, he didnt make it at the end, i dont know what was it about this particular frog, but it really got under my skin, i like to think he lived for a reason and got in my life for a reason too, that is why he is in my avatar, as constant reminder how important it is to educate people on proper care of frogs, how many people see them as a toy and behave accordingly. Sometimes it makes me mad, but people like you, who care, always get my respect and hope. Im sure your brother will watch you and will learn, how old is he anyway?

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## Abe

Thanks alot i think any animal lover couldnt stand the sight of a dying critter. My little bro is 9 and if you spoke to him you wouldnt think he is the kind to neglect his pet, he is incredibly smart and an animal encyclopedia. I got him into animals and nature and teach about things like the human damage on nature, conservation, and respect for the natural world. Although im alot older than him i can say he is my best friend next to my wife because we can hold an intelligent conversation and he often times teaches me many things. His problem is lazyness and the modern distractions of videogames and stuff like that.

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## Carlos

> Thanks alot carlos i did notice that Aftet i cut the worm it still survived for a while. I have a question, how did you guys spot the problems with my frog? I think the malnourishment was evident but what about the toxivity and the lack of growth. I just want to know in case i need the info later





> That is easy  just read your answers to the questions and it was OMG 
> 
>  first omg was when i read what you are using for soil, saw pics + cleaning his cage the way it used to be - toxicity
> then i just went with the rest of the questions - no supplements, crickets only, the way frog looked, its size too, that it is difficult for him to swallow or catch prey. Things like that. Actually the fact he is still alive shows he really wants to live, thank you for helping him!


Hi Abe!  Sorry did not answer before, was involved in travel and a show at Raleigh NC.  Pretty much what Lija said.  Also, I depend a lot in the posted questionnaire.  Myself think Lynn, Colleen, and Jerrod did a great job with it.  In general, it's the care experience, education, and willingness to help out frogs in trouble. 

 Just from looking at your Pacman pic it's easy to see the bony backbone protrusions.  A healthy Pacman should be filled up with meat, with a roundy pancake shape, not bony.  Your answers where very helpful too.  It's like going to Dr.; you describe symptoms and answer questions and that helps the physician determine problem based on his training and experience.

Now that you got the enclosure parameters stable; need to continue feeding, using supplements, and have patience.  Frogs normally take a long while to recover.  Do start thinking about getting a fecal exam done by a local herp vet.  If not available there are labs that will provide a kit for a fee and mail you results.  Good luck  :Smile:  !

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