# Frogs & Toads > Pacman Frogs >  How much to feed pacmans?

## LauraS

Hello,

I just got my first pacman a few days ago.  He has not eaten yet.  I'm not too worried about that.  I figure he just needs to settle in first.  My question is how much do I feed him?  He is young, about the size of a half-dollar.  I have crickets I purchased for him (I asked for mediums but they look like smalls) as well as a dubia roach colony.  I plan to use roaches as the staple diet since we already have the colony going for the geckos (let me know if that is a bad idea).  I also plan on picking up some worms from the bate shop to offer.  I'll offer pinkie mice too but not frequently (probably only when a snake refuses  :Wink:  or once a month or so). 

I have seen differing reports on how often to feed.  He's little so I'm thinking everyday or every other day is best.  Is that right?  I haven't really seen reports on how much to feed except not to feed to much.  Can I get a rule of thumb for how much is a meal?  I know they will eat themselves to death so I don't want to overfeed but I don't want to underfeed either, know what I mean?

Thanks in advance.

----------


## Jason

> Hello,
> 
> I just got my first pacman a few days ago.  He has not eaten yet.  I'm not too worried about that.  I figure he just needs to settle in first.  My question is how much do I feed him?  He is young, about the size of a half-dollar.  I have crickets I purchased for him (I asked for mediums but they look like smalls) as well as a dubia roach colony.  I plan to use roaches as the staple diet since we already have the colony going for the geckos (let me know if that is a bad idea).  I also plan on picking up some worms from the bate shop to offer.  I'll offer pinkie mice too but not frequently (probably only when a snake refuses  or once a month or so). 
> 
> I have seen differing reports on how often to feed.  He's little so I'm thinking everyday or every other day is best.  Is that right?  I haven't really seen reports on how much to feed except not to feed to much.  Can I get a rule of thumb for how much is a meal?  I know they will eat themselves to death so I don't want to overfeed but I don't want to underfeed either, know what I mean?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Hi Laura

I wouldn't worry too much about him not eating, like you said he does need time to settle down. Just make sure all the conditions are right, too low temperature and humidity will cause them to stop eating. Make sure to provide a deep layer of substrate and fake plants to make the frog feel secure.

How many inches is the frog? Every day is best for babies and usually 3 times a week for juveniles and once a week for adults. My frog will take around 4-6 crickets each meal but just feed as much as the frog will eat and then remove the left overs. Best feeding at night when the frogs most active. If you notice your frogs not at the ideal weight take note of how many times and how many food your feeding him and increase or decrease until your frogs seems to maintain the right weight.

----------

monster

----------


## LauraS

I couldn't find a ruler so I took a picture with a quarter for perspective.  

Does he look to be of a good weight?  His temps are 75-80.  I'm not sure on humidity but the substrate is damp/wet and I'm misting everyday so I'm guessing it is good but I'll get a reading asap.  He has a half log to hide under but nothing else.  I had read about them eating fake plants and getting impacted so I had avoided that but I can certainly put some in.  Maybe that was just a freak accident I read about. 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...esss/Jabba.jpg

I'd love your opinion on if he looks healthy or not.  I got him from Petsmart so you never know (he was on totally dry substrate). They told me he hadn't been there long but that he had eaten for them.

Thanks for the help!

----------


## Jason

> I couldn't find a ruler so I took a picture with a quarter for perspective.  
> 
> Does he look to be of a good weight?  His temps are 75-80.  I'm not sure on humidity but the substrate is damp/wet and I'm misting everyday so I'm guessing it is good but I'll get a reading asap.  He has a half log to hide under but nothing else.  I had read about them eating fake plants and getting impacted so I had avoided that but I can certainly put some in.  Maybe that was just a freak accident I read about. 
> 
> http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...esss/Jabba.jpg
> 
> I'd love your opinion on if he looks healthy or not.  I got him from Petsmart so you never know (he was on totally dry substrate). They told me he hadn't been there long but that he had eaten for them.
> 
> Thanks for the help!


I'm from the UK so not sure what size would be but he looks like more of a juvenile, I'm not sure though so if he's under 2 inches I wouldn't feed him less than every other day. His weight right now is spot on so just adjust your feeding to maintain that. He is very healthy looking, much better than what mine looked like out of the store. 

I'd always keep day time temps more to 80F especially for froglets.

----------

LauraS, monster

----------


## Cory

He is probably right at the 2inch mark or just a hair under, I have an American quarter beside me and it measures a inch. So as Jasonm96 said you could feed him every other day but no less then that. Also as stated you want to get the temps up to at least the 80f mark and around 82f would be better but 80 isn't all that bad. You need to get a hygrometer because humidity is very important for his health and shedding. To answer the question about the roaches yes they can be used as a staple, and when purchasing your worms make sure they aren't dyed. A little thing I noticed from the picture is your little guy seems to have a small lump on his right side, if im correct watch to make sure he goes to bathroom because that could be a sign of impaction. If he doesn't end up going and you get concerned you can give a bath in some warm declorinated water no higher then his chin with a few drops of pure honey in it to help him go. Let him sit in here for about 20 mins then give him a normal bath with warm declorinated water to rinse the honey residue off. And IMO he looks ok to me. One last thing to help him settle in for you quicker if you haven't already did it is cover 3 sides of his enclosure and this will help him feel abit more secure.

----------

jasonm96, LauraS

----------


## LauraS

> He is probably right at the 2inch mark or just a hair under, I have an American quarter beside me and it measures a inch. So as Jasonm96 said you could feed him every other day but no less then that. Also as stated you want to get the temps up to at least the 80f mark and around 82f would be better but 80 isn't all that bad. You need to get a hygrometer because humidity is very important for his health and shedding. To answer the question about the roaches yes they can be used as a staple, and when purchasing your worms make sure they aren't dyed. A little thing I noticed from the picture is your little guy seems to have a small lump on his right side, if im correct watch to make sure he goes to bathroom because that could be a sign of impaction. If he doesn't end up going and you get concerned you can give a bath in some warm declorinated water no higher then his chin with a few drops of pure honey in it to help him go. Let him sit in here for about 20 mins then give him a normal bath with warm declorinated water to rinse the honey residue off. And IMO he looks ok to me. One last thing to help him settle in for you quicker if you haven't already did it is cover 3 sides of his enclosure and this will help him feel abit more secure.


Ok, I'll definitely up his temps and throw a hygrometer in there.  I hadn't noticed a lump.  I will definitely be watching to see if he goes to the bathroom.  Silly question but is it easy to tell against all the coconut fiber?  I haven't seen any waste from him yet.

----------


## Jason

There's a book I'd high recommend you get, it's a really good read and help you raise a nice big healthy frog. I've bought many other books and I can say they're all either out of date or just rubbish all together.

Check it out
http://www.amazon.com/Horned-Frogs-B.../dp/1882770889

----------


## LauraS

> There's a book I'd high recommend you get, it's a really good read and help you raise a nice big healthy frog. I've bought many other books and I can say they're all either out of date or just rubbish all together.
> 
> Check it out
> http://www.amazon.com/Horned-Frogs-B.../dp/1882770889


I'll pick up a copy. Thanks!

----------


## Cory

Ya when he poops you should be able to find it, there not small and they stink. When my adult female goes I can smell it as soon as I go downstairs. And its funny because this is only time she tries to get out of her enclosure, she cant even stand the smell of herself. L.O.L Also if you notice he has moved from his old burrowing site to a new one sometimes this is an indicator he has pooped in that hole.

----------


## LauraS

Still no eating and still no pooping.  :Frown:  In addition to cricket and dubia roaches I have tried wax worms to no avail.  At what point should I worry about not eating?  I've been leaving a cricket in with him every night and taking it out in the morning.  Could my crickets be too small?  Would a larger cricket entice him to eat?

I have been fluctuating his night and day time temperatures between 82 and 75.  His humidity holds pretty steady between 80%-90%.  I also put in some greenery so he has more of a hidden feeling.

Any tips would be appreciated! Thank you.

----------


## Cory

Hi laura, sorry to hear still no luck. The humidity you want to try and keep around the 75 to 80% mark, anything over 80% for long periods of time can give him respiratory problems. Did you try the honey bath yet? And when you are feeding him are you doing it in a somewhat dark room or do you turn on light? If your turning a light on he might not like it, I got one that will and one that wont eat if I have turn the light on. Im going to post some questions and if you could answer them it would really help determine whats going with your little guy. 

1.   Size of enclosure
 2.   # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
 3.   Humidity
 4.   Temperature
 5.   Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
 6.   Materials used for substrate
 7.   Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
_- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv._
 8.    Main food source
 9.    Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
 10.   Lighting
 11.   What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
 12.   When is the last time he/she ate
 13.   Have you found poop lately
 14.   A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
 15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area.
 16. How old is the frog
 17.   How long have you owned him/her
 18.   Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
 19.   Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
 20.   How often the frog is handled
 21.   Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
 22.   Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

----------


## Jason

are you providing any lighting? I give all my animals full spectrum lighting for a proper day and night cycle, keeps them happy and feeding. I use a plug timer keep it on for no longer than 12 hours per day. Irregular day and night cycles will stop animals from eating so at night if you have any lights on in your room unless dim they can cause problems. Remember if you're using a heat mat to put it on the side not bottom and connect it to a thermostat, the temperature of a heat mat can only be monitored by a digital thermometer, not gauge. Try putting temps up to 84 during the day and as said humidity should not go over 80% so cut down on misting.

The 13W light in a light dome is enough
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/natural_light.php

----------

LauraS

----------


## Cory

Jason has a very good point about the light, the room you keep him in is there a window? You want to have 12hr day and light cycle and keep it steady. The rrom I keep my frogs in I cover the window at night with a piece of thick black paper, its not very big window. This way they always get the same amount of light and dark no matter the season, I do 9am to 9 pm. I noticed last year around this time a lot of people were having the same problems and there main source of light was from the window, even though the temps remain the same I believe they can still sense things are changing from loss of daylight hours and change in the barometric pressure. I have a led light over my ornate during the day now but didn't at first and my albino has nothing but the room light and having a steady 12 hour light cycle I don't have any problems with eating and stuff. If the light in the room isn't bright enough to light up a lot of terrarium I would suggest to maybe get some extra lighting as Jason suggested.

----------

LauraS

----------


## LauraS

I just did the honey bath now.  I wanted to wait on that so he could get  as much alone time away from the scary human to hopefully distress and  eat.  But it is odd, if he was eating at the pet store, that he hasn't  pooped yet for me, isn't it?  He peed in the water, I believe, but no  poop (colored mucusy stuff in the water).  He doesn't like me much right  now.  :Wink:  I have him back in his enclosure.  I'll watch to see if he goes  soon.  Petsmart said he hadn't been there long.  Maybe two moves (to  the pet store  and then to my home) in as many weeks was too much stress for the little  guy. 

He is just getting natural sunlight hours now.  I like to  keep the summer/winter light going for my reptiles but I can put a light  on him for longer days if that will help make him feel more  comfortable. 

When I try to feed him the worms/roaches I don't  want to go to far because I don't want them burrowing and me not being  sure if he ate it or not.  I have been trying to keep it dark for him  when feeding thinking he might be a shy eater.  I have been leaving one  cricket with him overnight every night and then taking it out in the  morning. 

1.   Size of enclosure -- 5 gallon
 2.   # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences -- Just him
 3.   Humidity -- 80%+
 4.   Temperature -- Low 80s during the day, 75 ambient at night.
 5.   Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish -- Tap water with Reptisafe
 6.   Materials used for substrate -- Coconut
 7.   Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and  other materials. -- Wood for hiding and fake plants.  Water bowl he can  get in and out of on the cool side of the tank.
_- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv. -- Not really much.  I rinsed them but probably should have done a vinegar water soak.  Everything is new and not reused from the reptiles.  Maybe I should have baked the wood but it was a new piece sealed in a bag sold for hermit crabs._
 8.    Main food source -- Trying to be dubias.  Hasn't eaten yet. :-p
 9.    Vitamins and calcium? (how often) -- I'm dusting with the  Osteo-Form SA Calcium-Phosphorus with Vitamins Powder and Vionate.  Use  those with the leopard geckos. Every other meal if he'd eat. (is that  alright?)
 10.   Lighting -- Daylight.  There is a window in the reptile room I let light in during the day.
 11.   What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure  -- Heat tape on the side plugged into a thermostat.  Temps are taken  inside tank on top of substrate close to the heat source. 
 12.   When is the last time he/she ate -- To my knowledge, last  Monday.  I was told he ate at the pet store but there was a cricket in  there with him.
 13.   Have you found poop lately -- No
 14.   A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
 15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include  it's ventral/belly area. -- Looks fine, just not eating yet.
 16. How old is the frog -- Unsure
 17.   How long have you owned him/her -- One week.
 18.   Is the frog wild caught or captive bred -- Unsure.
 19.   Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are  used as treats -- Once he's eating most everyday is good for him tell  he gets older (right?).  Crickets/dubias.  How often should I give other  foods?  I also have nightcrawlers wax worms, and pinkies to offer him.
 20.   How often the frog is handled -- Not at all yet except for the  honey bath.  Most likely only when I need to do a full cleaning.
 21.   Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area -- Low
 22.   Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) --  My plan is to spot clean daily (no poops yet) and full clean once a  month.  That's how I do my snakes but if that's not right let me know.   Water change, when it's dirty which is most everyday because he gets  dirt in it. :-p

----------


## Jason

Seems spot on. I would however provide full spectrum lighting although many on the forums don't and they're animals seem fine, I still provide all animals with it. It may be better changing the substrate more often as these frogs produce a lot of waste, I change mines twice a month to be on the safe side. I also stay away from chemicals when cleaning, only disinfecting it every so often but I thoroughly rinse afterwards.

If you get tongs you can dap the cricket gently on his nose and he might go for it. Either that or perhaps the size of cricket is too small to be any interest to him, you could try a larger size aslong as it's not any bigger than 1/2 his body size. They are nocturnal so if you got a night light and fed it at night when it's active it may be more willing to eat

----------

LauraS

----------


## Cory

Everything seems to be ok, a week without a poop isn't anything to get to stressed about but he should go soon. I agree also that you might have better chances getting him to eat with tongs. Do you know how the store was giving food, letting it roam free or tong fed. And I would maybe put a couple more crickets then just one, if the cricket is staying away from him on one side of the tank he probably cant see it or cant be bothered to chase it. with maybe 4 or 5 crickets in there they may catch his attention. Or the tong feeding IMO is the best way, you can see exactly what has been eaten and less chances of him getting substrate in his mouth. And if you choose to get bigger feeders the rule usually goes no wider then the space between his eyes and no longer then 1/2 the body length. Jason just forgot the width part so thought I would throw that in.

----------

LauraS

----------


## LauraS

> Everything seems to be ok, a week without a poop isn't anything to get to stressed about but he should go soon. I agree also that you might have better chances getting him to eat with tongs. Do you know how the store was giving food, letting it roam free or tong fed. And I would maybe put a couple more crickets then just one, if the cricket is staying away from him on one side of the tank he probably cant see it or cant be bothered to chase it. with maybe 4 or 5 crickets in there they may catch his attention. Or the tong feeding IMO is the best way, you can see exactly what has been eaten and less chances of him getting substrate in his mouth. And if you choose to get bigger feeders the rule usually goes no wider then the space between his eyes and no longer then 1/2 the body length. Jason just forgot the width part so thought I would throw that in.


Thank you, that helps me know what size I should be offering.  I have only been leaving one cricket in since he wasn't eating I didn't want him to get hurt by the crickets but it does make since to put more in, more of a chance he'll see them.  I will put in a few more tonight and see if he goes for it.  I have been using tongs to offer the worms as well as letting them crawl in front of him.  How do you grab the crickets? :-p I believe the pet store was letting the crickets free roam in the enclosure.  There was one cricket running loose in the enclosure when I purchased him. I can call and ask to be sure.

Thank you all for your help!

----------


## Cory

A little trick with the crickets is to take the 2 back legs off so they cant jump, sometimes these guys don't have the best aim and this helps them catch the crickets easier. When tong feeding crickets I hold them by the those 2 little antenna things that come off there butt. This way they will still move a lot in the tongs and get the frogs attention.

----------

LauraS

----------


## LauraS

Jabba ate for the first time for me last night!  He ate two crickets and one wax worm.  He was hungry because he chased those crickets, lol.  He did not seem interested in any more food then that.  Is that an ok meal?  I'm just thrilled he ate something! At what point do I need to change his feeding schedule?  I figure it'll change as he grows but I'm not sure how.

Thanks!  :Smile:

----------


## Jason

That's good, yeah that's fine. It may take just a while for him to start eating more. Don't feed waxworms too often they're like the fattiest things ever, good for bulking animals up though if they need it. In that book I recommended that actually tell you a feeding schedule by the size of the frog, what to feed and how much to supplement

----------

LauraS

----------


## LauraS

> That's good, yeah that's fine. It may take just a while for him to start eating more. Don't feed waxworms too often they're like the fattiest things ever, good for bulking animals up though if they need it. In that book I recommended that actually tell you a feeding schedule by the size of the frog, what to feed and how much to supplement ��


Oh really?  I'm about half way through that book right now.  It has a lot of good info.  I haven't gotten to the recommending feedings yet.  Thank you for telling me about the book!

I just got done feeding him.  Jabba ate four crickets (they were kind of smallish).  He almost bit me.  I was moving his wood hide to get to a cricket that had run in there and he jumped at my finger.  Oops, lol.

----------


## Jason

It's definitely a must have, by the man who first bred them himself. I'd skip to the feeding part just now, as it's one of the most important thing with young froglets.

Frog bit me the other day, drew blood haha! I put my finger in there and wiggled it a bit to see if he was hungry, he then went for my finger so I fed him some crickets. If they do catch you, don't yank your finger out, spray some de-chlorinated water on the frog and it will let go, otherwise you risk mucking up it's jaw.

----------


## Cory

Glad to hear he is starting to settle more and eat something for you. And if hes trying to bite you that's a good indicator hes feeling better and more secure with his surroundings. :Smile:

----------

LauraS

----------


## LauraS

Update:  He is eating and growing.  I'm glad about that but as far as I can tell he hasn't pooped yet.  Should I be worried about that?  I just gave him another honey bath so maybe that will help.  Does he look ok?

New pictures:

----------


## Cory

How long exactly since he pooped last? In the first picture he looks fine but then in the second his right side looks bumped out abit more then other. It could just be the picture but if not that is were his intestine would be and that's a good sign of impaction. Nothing to get over worried about at the moment though. Keep trying the honey baths and eventually he should go. While hes in the bath next time if he doesn't go tonight, if he lets you gently massage were the bump is for couple minutes and this sometimes helps soften or break up whatevers in there. Besides that he looks good to me.

----------


## LauraS

> How long exactly since he pooped last? In the first picture he looks fine but then in the second his right side looks bumped out abit more then other. It could just be the picture but if not that is were his intestine would be and that's a good sign of impaction. Nothing to get over worried about at the moment though. Keep trying the honey baths and eventually he should go. While hes in the bath next time if he doesn't go tonight, if he lets you gently massage were the bump is for couple minutes and this sometimes helps soften or break up whatevers in there. Besides that he looks good to me.


I've had him two weeks so at least that long.  How often do they normally go to the bathroom?  Hopefully I'll find a present in his viv soon.  I'll try the massaging if he'll let me.

He has visibly grown in the last two weeks so I take that to be a good sign.  I just haven't seen any waste pass yet.

----------


## Cory

At that size after 2 weeks ya he should go. My ornate that's abit bigger then yours goes at least once week, but as they get older and bigger they slow down. My adult goes 2 to 3 times a month, and they are huge. You may want to take him out tomorrow and take your hand and check the first half inch to inch to see if maybe he trampled over it or something and its now mixed with with cocofibre. My guy has done this a couple times on me. And if nothing keep trying those baths and hopefully he goes for you.

----------

LauraS

----------


## LauraS

Another feeding question.  So far I have been feeding Jabba mainly crickets with an occasional wax worm (he won't eat dubias or earth worms).  I just offered him his first pinky and he ate it after being left alone with it (he is a shy eater).  He's a little over two inches now so I've been feeding every other day.  Should I wait an extra long time after the pinky or just stick with the every other day feedings?  Thanks!

----------

