# Frogs & Toads > African Bullfrogs >  Water bowls for mature pixie frogs are optional!

## Dr. Matt

Wow am i going to get flac for this statement but its totally true!  If you have a MATURE African Bullfrog there is a way for you to get rid of that nasty water bowl once and for all.  Pixie frogs, in the wild, like to mainly sit in muck and very shallow puddles.  they like being in very moist places where they can absorb water into there bodies in prep for a drought.  But you can duplicate this without the need of a water bowl very easily.  
-First remove your water bowl and put it on craiglist for $2.00 (someone may want it) you sure will not need it anymore!
-Using cocofiber (the stuff that comes as a dry brick) put about an 1.5 inches depth in its cleaned main cage.
-Make sure that it is very "muddy" with declorinated water.  
-When ever you feed your pixie put it in a differrent container.
-He will eat and then after a couple minutes will deficate all the old water out of its body and more than likely go #2 in this container and not in his home anymore. this also gives you a clear inspection of the defication to make sure there is no parasites or problems with the frog.
 -Clean out this container and fill it back up with about an inch of declorinated water that is ruffly 70 - 75 degrees.
-Put the frog back in that freshly cleaned container and let your pixie chill in it for 30min - 2 hours (your decision) 
-During this time he will absorb fresh water into itself
-After soak time is done put him back in his cage.
No more scooping any more #2s out of his main cage. No more cleaning water bowls everyday.  If you have children like me you will love this new routine.  I have been doing this for over 6 months and My frog is beautiful and healthy and so will yours! 


Some of you who love cleaning water bowls almost everyday and having stinky cages, keep doing what you are doing this is not for you,  But if your sick of doing those things this above info is for you and is tried and true and will work for all MATURE Pixies. Enjoy! :Smile:

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## Jack

I see your point and I'm not disagreeing with you but here is and argument against your statement. I realize your frog is healthy and I think it's up to the keeper.

If you love your frog you should devote enough time and effort to at least change the water in its bowl. As well as having a fun time swimming around in his bowl he will also ALWAYS poop in his bowl so I don't need to scoop up poop from his main cage. And even though you say that it's better this way you also end up with more regular substate changes, more stress caused to the pixie by moving it around a lot, having to mix up the substrate a lot because of stagnant water deep below the substrate(I once tried your method exactly as you said to do it and if I were to dig down into the substrate with all that water at the bottom lying there undisturbed it would stink because of bacterial build up).

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## Carlos

No flak from me is intended and if you came to a keeping method that works for you and frog, it's cool  :Cool:  .  Personally see your method as heavily dependent in daily handling and on frog pooping after feeding (some won't).  Also, the wet substrate could harbor molds and bacteria. 

When it comes to Pixies as pets; prefer and recommend a large enough enclosure that can be set as either a 2/3 wet-1/3 dry or 3/4 wet-1/4 dry.  The wet section having as large as possible canister filter (10X the rated volume is good start point) as can be afforded and an accessible platform made of flat stones or similar connecting to the dry area.  This area will have shredded coco over a layer of clay balls (to keep coco dry above the water table) with a layer of landscape fabric between them).  

Targeted maintenance is weekly water changes of 25-50% (affected by frog size, water volume, and filter efficiency) to keep Nitrates below 20-25 ppm.  Filter media is to be cleaned during WC with tank water.  Dry area get's spot cleaning (normally unneeded) and monthly changes.  Good luck  :Smile:  !

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## NialR35

> No flak from me is intended and if you came to a keeping method that works for you and frog, it's cool  .  Personally see your method as heavily dependent in daily handling and on frog pooping after feeding (some won't).  Also, the wet substrate could harbor molds and bacteria. 
> 
> When it comes to Pixies as pets; prefer and recommend a large enough enclosure that can be set as either a 2/3 wet-1/3 dry or 3/4 wet-1/4 dry.  The wet section having as large as possible canister filter (10X the rated volume is good start point) as can be afforded and an accessible platform made of flat stones or similar connecting to the dry area.  This area will have shredded coco over a layer of clay balls (to keep coco dry above the water table) with a layer of landscape fabric between them).  
> 
> Targeted maintenance is weekly water changes of 25-50% (affected by frog size, water volume, and filter efficiency) to keep Nitrates below 20-25 ppm.  Filter media is to be cleaned during WC with tank water.  Dry area get's spot cleaning (normally unneeded) and monthly changes.  Good luck  !


Carlos,

I totally 101% agree with you but reading all those numbers, I'd rather just change my big water bowl on a daily basis lmao!  :Big Grin:

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## Dr. Matt

my substrate dont smell. its very moist not a puddle. this way the substrate evaporates and it gets a little dry so i add a large glass of water to the substrate every few days or when needed.   i do a complete substrate change on my frog main cage maybe on average every 2 weeks to once a month.  He is also over 6 inches now so i cut back his feeding to once every 3-4 days.  it is easy and effective.

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## Dr. Matt

> No flak from me is intended and if you came to a keeping method that works for you and frog, it's cool  . Personally see your method as heavily dependent in daily handling and on frog pooping after feeding (some won't). Also, the wet substrate could harbor molds and bacteria. 
> 
> When it comes to Pixies as pets; prefer and recommend a large enough enclosure that can be set as either a 2/3 wet-1/3 dry or 3/4 wet-1/4 dry. The wet section having as large as possible canister filter (10X the rated volume is good start point) as can be afforded and an accessible platform made of flat stones or similar connecting to the dry area. This area will have shredded coco over a layer of clay balls (to keep coco dry above the water table) with a layer of landscape fabric between them). 
> 
> Targeted maintenance is weekly water changes of 25-50% (affected by frog size, water volume, and filter efficiency) to keep Nitrates below 20-25 ppm. Filter media is to be cleaned during WC with tank water. Dry area get's spot cleaning (normally unneeded) and monthly changes. Good luck  !


like i said in my posting, if you like to do daily maintenance this is not for you because i dont have to do anything daily as you suspect.  i dont have to do any waterchanges as you do.  mold and bacteria can grow just as fast on any moist warm substrate.  so any substrate the frog climbs out of the water and walks across can and will get bacterias growing on it. i am glad you have a way that works great for you though!

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## Carlos

> like i said in my posting, if you like to do daily maintenance this is not for you because i dont have to do anything daily as you suspect.  i dont have to do any waterchanges as you do.  mold and bacteria can grow just as fast on any moist warm substrate.  so any substrate the frog climbs out of the water and walks across can and will get bacterias growing on it. i am glad you have a way that works great for you though!


My bad for stating that your method requires handling frog daily.  Also, see you don't do "daily" maintenance or any water changes; but do something else  :Smile:  .

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## Monza geckos

If you have ever watched the world famous David Attenborough you will have witnessed his documentary on pixie frog in Africa and you will have noticed how they are fully submerged in the water with only their eyes protruding so I think to make the animal feel natural it would be advisable to provide a water bowl and they have proven to have a tendency to swim regularly when given the option so I think they do like swimming otherwise why waste the time in doing so when they could be stalking prey

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## Jack

Mines in its bowl every night.

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## GRABibus

When she is not burried, my girl spends half time in water bowl and half time on substrate.
She also often poops in water.

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## Jack

> When she is not burried, my girl spends half time in water bowl and half time on substrate.
> She also often poops in water.


Same with my boy. :Smile:

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## Lija

I must say when I first read the post I thought it is a joke lol then I read the whole thread and then re read the first post again lol
You are not kidding are you? Well... If it works for you it is great, if you don't have any problems it is awesome! If you won't have any problems after a few years it is even better. 

 But.... Most of the frogs don't eat in a separate container and don't poop/urinate here as well, so most will go in a substrate and are gonna sit in all that unless you change it every single time. or parts of it, although i doubt it will not stink if a frog poops in muddy substrate and you change just part of it. Constant muddy substrate is a an excellent media for all sorts of stuff: Protozoa, bacteria, fungus and so much more... 
 Frogs in a wild have a choice to go into the water or burry into the substrate, your set up will limit their choices. My girl for example sometimes sits with just eyes sticking out of the water for days and then sits burrowed into substrate. 

  sometimes things work out for one frog but don't really for others, and when recommending something I much rather look from all perspectives and avoid anything that might be dangerous. Having said that like or not , having time or not to change water every day I'd rather do it then not. It is always better be safe then sorry. Too many things might go wrong otherwise and I don't want to take chances nor advise anyone on doing so.

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## NialR35

> Mines in its bowl every night.


Same here. At least half the day, everyday. Especially during night time after feeding.

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## danfrog

Mattfish. You have very unusual care procedures for you frog. I would like to see exactly how keeping your frog, I'm just curious.

“Trouble in the Frog Enclosure” The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.

1. Size of enclosure?

2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences?

3. Humidity? 

4. Temperature? 

5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish? 

6. Materials used for substrate? 

7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. - How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv? 

8. Main food source? 

9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often?) 

10. Lighting? 

11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure? 

12. When is the last time he/she ate? 

13. Have you found poop lately? 

14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) 

15. How old is the frog? 

16. How long have you owned him/her? 

17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred? 

18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats? 

19. How often the frog is handled? 

20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area? 

21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)


by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.

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## DeeDub

Interesting post.  You change out substrate more often.  I don't do daily cage maintenance.  I flip (fluff up/turn over) substrate every three days. I use a 1/3 land 2/3 water with a big canister.  I haven't changed substrate in 3 months.  He ***** in his water after every feeding, 1-3 times a week. I net out the big stuff, the filter does the rest.

Your muddy substrate will, I say again, will, grow bacteria a lot faster than moist substrate.  You will go through more sub as well.  They need to be able to fully burrow, so 1.5 inches is not deep enough.  If it works, do it buddy.  I know they appreciate being able to fully burrow, and submerge in water.

As far as the Attenborough docs, I have only seen clips during breeding season.  These frogs spend a lot of their time on land, and under the soil even when not brumating.

My big guy goes through cycles.  He'll spend a week straight in the water feature, then three weeks on top of, or under the substrate.

My 2 cents

-----------------
Thanks
DW

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## Dr. Matt

> Mattfish. You have very unusual care procedures for you frog. I would like to see exactly how keeping your frog, I'm just curious.
> 
> Trouble in the Frog Enclosure The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.
> 
> 1. Size of enclosure?
> 
> 2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences?
> 
> 3. Humidity? 
> ...


thank you for taking me seriously Danfrog,  i would be happy to answer those questions.  
1. 18" x 18" x24" high
2. 1
3. right now 59% but that varies as the substrate evaporates and drys out
4.lights on 82-85 degrees lights off 73-75 degrees
5. declorinated water
6. coco fiber (stuff that comes as a dry brick)
7. 2 fake plants, and i always sanitize them with diluted bleach 1/100 parts, then rinse until they dont smell of any bleach 
8. Fish (i think they might be bluegills, i get them at the market)
9. "repashy supervite" but i only use it when i feed him crickets once every couple months
10. 2) 20 watt haligen puck lights for light and heat
11. i have a rainforest tiny undertank heater that is on a dimmer, the laser heat gun shows it is always at 76 degrees.  it is under the very center of the bottom and is maybe 5" x 5" (he rarely ever sits over it) and the haligens lights
12. He now eats every 3-4 days
13. he poops almost every feeding, but sometimes every other, within a few minutes after he ate
14. i dont know how to add a pick to this response page but you can check him out on youtube. i just did a video last week of him. its under "african bullfrog pixie eats bird and clean his cage" 
 15. i thought he was 10 months old but my wife reminded me we got him before our 3rd kid was born so he is 1year and a few months old. (time flies)
16. size of a quarter
17. i dont know
18. rats, mice, crickets, those big green caterpillar looking things, superworms, earthworms, snakes, birds .
19. every 3-4 days, i feed him in a different container
20. medium traffic
21. about every 2-3 weeks during a feeding, i take all his old bedding out. wipe down the inside with a wet rag that has 1/100 parts bleach to water on it. (which is very diluted and you can hardly smell the bleach even then) so any living mold or parasite dies. them i rinse every thing down with water, drain the tank and wipe with a totally clean rag (no chemicals) rinse everything down again. then i drain it and dump in new bedding.  this part you can see on that youtube video. it is simple and easy.  now only time will tell if i am an idiot or a genius.  i have been doing this routine for well over six months now and he has beautiful deep colors.

thank you danfrog for showing an interest in a possible "other way" of frog care

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## Monza geckos

> thank you for taking me seriously Danfrog,  i would be happy to answer those questions.  
> 1. 18" x 18" x24" high
> 2. 1
> 3. right now 59% but that varies as the substrate evaporates and drys out
> 4.lights on 82-85 degrees lights off 73-75 degrees
> 5. declorinated water
> 6. coco fiber (stuff that comes as a dry brick)
> 7. 2 fake plants, and i always sanitize them with diluted bleach 1/100 parts, then rinse until they dont smell of any bleach 
> 8. Fish (i think they might be bluegills, i get them at the market)
> ...


no one is taking you serious because that's is the worst possible advice I've heard

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## Dr. Matt

Yet my frog is thriving!  the proof is in the pudding.  His color is deep and he eats anything agressively for over six months now and counting.  I think people are taking me seriously.  If they want this frog without all the maintenance, they should take me seriously.  this way works.  But If you like doing what you are doing, stick with it!  I am only offering a less time consuming way.  isnt that what this forum is all about?

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## gullywhippet

frogs like water lets give em what they like, slam dunk!

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## Carlos

> ...21. about every 2-3 weeks during a feeding, i take all his old bedding out. wipe down the inside with a wet rag that has 1/100 parts bleach to water on it. (which is very diluted and you can hardly smell the bleach even then) so any living mold or parasite dies...


There are parasite, bacteria, and viruses that have resistant spores or stages that will survive pure household bleach; much easier a 1/100 solution  :Frown:  .

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## NialR35

Not only bleach is already bad, but it's so diluted in your method that it totally removes its efficiency. You would be better off spraying WIPE OUT 1 all over the glass to make sure it gets disinfected and sanitized without harming your frog and without any worries.

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## NialR35

> thank you for taking me seriously Danfrog,  i would be happy to answer those questions.  
> 1. 18" x 18" x24" high
> 2. 1
> 3. right now 59% but that varies as the substrate evaporates and drys out
> 4.lights on 82-85 degrees lights off 73-75 degrees
> 5. declorinated water
> 6. coco fiber (stuff that comes as a dry brick)
> 7. 2 fake plants, and i always sanitize them with diluted bleach 1/100 parts, then rinse until they dont smell of any bleach 
> 8. Fish (i think they might be bluegills, i get them at the market)
> ...


You MUST start dusting supplements since apparently you only do it when you feed crickets every couple of months; that is horrible. You should also change your frog's staple diet because fish is not going to do it. Captive bred frogs should be fed insects as the main staple source with other small vertebrates as a monthly treat only. Like I mentioned before, an AGBF can live up to 15-20 years in captivity with proper care therefore if you want your frog to live this long and reduce the possibilities of your frog getting diseases, syndromes, deformities then you must start dusting Ca+D3 at least twice per week and a multi-vitamin once per week.

Also humidity at 59% is very low  to what an ideal range would be; it should remain at a constant 75-80% all the time. Humidity is also a factor in the frog's stress level and helps its digestive system as well.

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## Dr. Matt

bleach at 1/100 still kills.  Doctors will tell you that if you have a well balanced diet you really have no need for any suppliments.  Suppliments are never the real thing.  fish bones are a great form of calcium.  Fish oils are a great digestive track lube. fish liver has tons of multivitimins.  so how is fish a bad thing?  fish are one of the main staples of water frogs.  thats just common sense and fact.  But "wipe out" is a good idea and i will try it. thank you for helping me with that.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> bleach at 1/100 still kills.  Doctors will tell you that if you have a well balanced diet you really have no need for any suppliments.  Suppliments are never the real thing.  fish bones are a great form of calcium.  Fish oils are a great digestive track lube. fish liver has tons of multivitimins.  so how is fish a bad thing?  fish are one of the main staples of water frogs.  thats just common sense and fact.  But "wipe out" is a good idea and i will try it. thank you for helping me with that.


Some fish can cause a Vitamin B1 deficirncy if fed too often. Mainly those that contain thiaminase.

Also many fish contain lots kf heavy metals. Especially mercury.

They are not a good staple food, but do make a good treat.

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## Dr. Matt

> Some fish can cause a Vitamin B1 deficirncy if fed too often. Mainly those that contain thiaminase.
> 
> Also many fish contain lots kf heavy metals. Especially mercury.
> 
> They are not a good staple food, but do make a good treat.


"Some" fish is the key word, but you just stepped out Grif and i am glad to see that.  Fish are a fantastic feeder.  I would much rather feed fish than worms as a staple, for sure!  I really cant say it is even a staple because i feed so many different thing all the time.  but fish is the go to if i have nothing else.  i always keep fish in the freezer as fail safe.
 Grif wouldnt you agree with the fact that the majority of Rat breeding facilities are problably the nastist places to be on earth?  they have hundreds of breeder rats in bins that get the cheapest dog food to eat everyday for the rest of those rats misrable lives.  they never get bathed or vet checked.  if one dies, it gets thrown in the freezer for the next trip to fill pet store freezers.  they have no names,  they have no freedom, they are just a dollar amount attached to their size.  Cricket farms are no different.
The only thing that is different though is worm farms.  the dirt they live in has bacteria colonies in it that destroys most diseases rapidly which makes worms of any kind the safest critter for feeding.  But worms are nothing more than mere skin and juices.  there is no real liver or bones or measureable heart, or mineral filled brain to eat as a mammal has.  so to solely feed worms as a staple would be deficient to you frog.

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## Jack

> I would much rather feed fish than worms as a staple, for sure!


Are you being serious or just messin?




> "
> Grif wouldnt you agree with the fact that the majority of Rat breeding facilities are problably the nastist places to be on earth? they have hundreds of breeder rats in bins that get the cheapest dog food to eat everyday for the rest of those rats misrable lives. .


I don't know what rat breeders are like over in Michigan but not all are like that.




> so to solely feed worms as a staple would be deficient to you frog.


Are you for real?

Matt you may be interested in this video. They care about their rats as he says in the video so they have space. Just 3 females and 1 male per tub.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yyTerL3nCHQ&feature=relmfu

In one of his other videos he also states that they clean their rats every five days.

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## Cap10Squirty

Did you ever state what fish you are using as  a food source? Sorry if I missed it, it's hard reading on my iPhone at the moment.

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## Dr. Matt

> Are you being serious or just messin?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what rat breeders are like over in Michigan but not all are like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you for real?
> ...


Yes i am for real.  Almost all rat breeders have 1 to 3-4 ratio.  And yes they clean them out or the rats would be swimming in urine.  Have you ever had 4-5 large rats in one tub before and then wait 5 days to clean it?  NASTY!!!  now multiply that by 20 to 30.  and add in no regulations from the government.  You have no idea how nasty and easily disease ridden things can become.  Like i said this knowledge i am giving is first hand.  have you ever walked threw the facility were your feeder rats come from?  I have!!!

 The vast majority is like this,  i am talking for every 1 nicely ran facility there are 20 others with big problems.  stop kidding yourselves.

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## Dr. Matt

> Did you ever state what fish you are using as a food source? Sorry if I missed it, it's hard reading on my iPhone at the moment.


Hey Garret,  i dont think i did.  but i use any fish that will fit in Mr. Pickles huge mouth.  Silversides, gobies, eels, most anything.

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## Jack

> stop kidding yourselves.




Stop kidding yourselves? You know matt I'm getting really annoyed with your pointless, arrogant posts. If wild swallows are so safe then why don't you eat them? Why won't you just accept that people are disagreeing with you and that there are better food sources than wild caught animals. For starters mammals, fish and birds are no where near as good feeders as insects such as cockroaches and your statement about if earthworms are your frogs staple then you are depriving them of nutrients is plain stupid. There are more parasites, diseases and bacteria in wild caught foods, just realise that! You are always saying that it will boost your frogs immunity and the stomach will destroy all pathogens or parasites that enter but not all can be destroyed especially eggs of such parasites. Can you please give up trying to persuade everyone into getting their pets wild caught food, taking away their water bowls and getting our frogs ill or even killed. Grow up, face the truth and stop wasting everyone's time.

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## Dr. Matt

> Stop kidding yourselves? You know matt I'm getting really annoyed with your pointless, arrogant posts. If wild swallows are so safe then why don't you eat them? Why won't you just accept that people are disagreeing with you and that there are better food sources than wild caught animals. For starters mammals, fish and birds are no where near as good feeders as insects such as cockroaches and your statement about if earthworms are your frogs staple then you are depriving them of nutrients is plain stupid. There are more parasites, diseases and bacteria in wild caught foods, just realise that! You are always saying that it will boost your frogs immunity and the stomach will destroy all pathogens or parasites that enter but not all can be destroyed especially eggs of such parasites. Can you please give up trying to persuade everyone into getting their pets wild caught food, taking away their water bowls and getting our frogs ill or even killed. Grow up, face the truth and stop wasting everyone's time.


Jack i am suprised at this last response.  These important facts are not pointless.  I am opening alot of peoples eyes to a broader, healthier diet plan for their prized pets.  I cant eat a sparrow raw because i have an immune system different than Pixies.  sparrows actually live in africa so pixies already eat those every chance they can get even today.  time will tell if my frog out lives those other frogs with a staple diet of insects and worms.  I believe that they should start feeding more naturally vitamin efficiant animals that possess bones and larger brains and bigger livers for the frogs better health to pull from.  My frog is not ill at all as you say it should be or definitely will become.  I have been doing this for over 6 months before i even opened my mouth about how great it is.  I have a blast finding weird food for Mr. Pickles to eat.  He eats what ever i give soooo fast that it shocks people who watch.  I am speaking about something that WORKS.  It works so well that i am not going to back down, and just because people want to hide behind fear and lash out at me doesnt mean i am wrong or a waist of time.  

I dont have a water bowl and i have added healthy wild animals to my Frogs diet and he is FANTASTIC.  Not just for now but he is going to rock for many years to come.  common sense tells me so.

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## Carlos

It's time everyone takes a deep breath and relax.  It's clear no one here will convince Matt to change his ways or vice versa.  So let each other be and end this debate with a friendly digital hand shake. 

If you don't like what Matt does or preaches and already said your 2 cents; leave the thread and suddenly you won't get annoyed by it.  

Also, expect everyone in this discussion does not suddenly drag it into and derail other threads in forum.  The subject has been beaten to death here already and it's time to move on and be nice to each other and our frogs.  Thank you  :Smile: !

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> "Some" fish is the key word, but you just stepped out Grif and i am glad to see that.  Fish are a fantastic feeder.  I would much rather feed fish than worms as a staple, for sure!  I really cant say it is even a staple because i feed so many different thing all the time.  but fish is the go to if i have nothing else.  i always keep fish in the freezer as fail safe.
>  Grif wouldnt you agree with the fact that the majority of Rat breeding facilities are problably the nastist places to be on earth?  they have hundreds of breeder rats in bins that get the cheapest dog food to eat everyday for the rest of those rats misrable lives.  they never get bathed or vet checked.  if one dies, it gets thrown in the freezer for the next trip to fill pet store freezers.  they have no names,  they have no freedom, they are just a dollar amount attached to their size.  Cricket farms are no different.
> The only thing that is different though is worm farms.  the dirt they live in has bacteria colonies in it that destroys most diseases rapidly which makes worms of any kind the safest critter for feeding.  But worms are nothing more than mere skin and juices.  there is no real liver or bones or measureable heart, or mineral filled brain to eat as a mammal has.  so to solely feed worms as a staple would be deficient to you frog.


Fish from a clean source are fine, but only certain fish.

Earthworms are the most nutritious food for your frog. They contain a good amount of protein and are high in calcium. My GABF is fed. Night Crawlers as a staple and he hit 6.25" in 4 months. I think you don't fully know what you're talking about. He has never once had a fish.

Carlos is right though and I honestly feel that there is nothing more to add since you are obviously hard set of this endeavor.

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## Dr. Matt

> Fish from a clean source are fine, but only certain fish.
> 
> Earthworms are the most nutritious food for your frog. They contain a good amount of protein and are high in calcium. My GABF is fed. Night Crawlers as a staple and he hit 6.25" in 4 months. I think you don't fully know what you're talking about. He has never once had a fish.
> 
> Corlos is right though and I honestly feel that there is nothing more to add since you are obviously hard set of this endeavor.


Jack, 
what certain fish do you consider to be a safer bet?

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## Jack

> Jack i am suprised at this last response.


Yeah sorry Matt I kind of lost it there. I was just annoyed when you said that worms weren't a good staple. I have never used fish for any of my frogs. I think cooking them would kill parasites and diseases. I don't know if they can eat cooked foods though. Anyone has any input on that?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Jack, 
> what certain fish do you consider to be a safer bet?


Silversides are fine. You can also use Guppies, Mollies, and Minnows.

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## Dr. Matt

> Yeah sorry Matt I kind of lost it there. I was just annoyed when you said that worms weren't a good staple. I have never used fish for any of my frogs. I think cooking them would kill parasites and diseases. I don't know if they can eat cooked foods though. Anyone has any input on that?


Its okay Jack but you raise a FANTASTIC question.  Can a frog eat cooked food?  the answer is YES.  it will not be as vitimin packed as alot will be cooked out.  but scientist have actually done research of snakes eating raw vs cooked and found it took alot let energy for the snake to eat cooked than raw.  Jack you just gave me a GREAT idea!!!  i am going to cook all my frogs food that is not insect or worm related.  That way, you all are happy with me not giving my frog parasites and i am happy finding cool stuff to feed him other than the boring normal stuff!  JACK YOU ARE A GENIUS!!!!!  (:

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## Jack

> Its okay Jack but you raise a FANTASTIC question.  Can a frog eat cooked food?  the answer is YES.  it will not be as vitimin packed as alot will be cooked out.  but scientist have actually done research of snakes eating raw vs cooked and found it took alot let energy for the snake to eat cooked than raw.  Jack you just gave me a GREAT idea!!!  i am going to cook all my frogs food that is not insect or worm related.  That way, you all are happy with me not giving my frog parasites and i am happy finding cool stuff to feed him other than the boring normal stuff!  JACK YOU ARE A GENIUS!!!!!  (:


I have no problem with you feeding them cooked food because it will kill any parasites.

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## Eel Noob

> Wow am i going to get flac for this statement but its totally true!  If you have a MATURE African Bullfrog there is a way for you to get rid of that nasty water bowl once and for all.  Pixie frogs, in the wild, like to mainly sit in muck and very shallow puddles.  they like being in very moist places where they can absorb water into there bodies in prep for a drought.  But you can duplicate this without the need of a water bowl very easily.  
> -First remove your water bowl and put it on craiglist for $2.00 (someone may want it) you sure will not need it anymore!
> -Using cocofiber (the stuff that comes as a dry brick) put about an 1.5 inches depth in its cleaned main cage.
> -Make sure that it is very "muddy" with declorinated water.  
> -When ever you feed your pixie put it in a differrent container.
> -He will eat and then after a couple minutes will deficate all the old water out of its body and more than likely go #2 in this container and not in his home anymore. this also gives you a clear inspection of the defication to make sure there is no parasites or problems with the frog.
>  -Clean out this container and fill it back up with about an inch of declorinated water that is ruffly 70 - 75 degrees.
> -Put the frog back in that freshly cleaned container and let your pixie chill in it for 30min - 2 hours (your decision) 
> -During this time he will absorb fresh water into itself
> ...



-Make sure that it is very "muddy" with declorinated water.  

As everyone already pointed out very muddy substrate is not a good idea.

-He will eat and then after a couple minutes will deficate all the old  water out of its body and more than likely go #2 in this container and  not in his home anymore. this also gives you a clear inspection of the  defication to make sure there is no parasites or problems with the frog.

Lucky you that your frog will go to the bathroom every time outside of water but most of our frogs will go months on end if they don't have water to go into to relieve themselves. Wouldn't you need a microscope to see if there parasites? 

-Put the frog back in that freshly cleaned container and let your pixie chill in it for 30min - 2 hours (your decision) 

Too time consuming for me lol. 

-I have been doing this for over 6 months and My frog is beautiful and healthy and so will yours! 

How old is your frog?

-But if your sick of doing those things this above info is for you and is tried and true and will work for all MATURE Pixies.

How long have you been keep these frogs and how long have you been using this method?


BTW I personally like to give my frogs the option of going in and out their waterdish at their own choosing, either it's to just rehydrate or relieve themselves. More power to you if this works for you, everyone has their own way of doing things.

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## Dr. Matt

> -Make sure that it is very "muddy" with declorinated water. 
> 
> As everyone already pointed out very muddy substrate is not a good idea.
> 
> -He will eat and then after a couple minutes will deficate all the old water out of its body and more than likely go #2 in this container and not in his home anymore. this also gives you a clear inspection of the defication to make sure there is no parasites or problems with the frog.
> 
> Lucky you that your frog will go to the bathroom every time outside of water but most of our frogs will go months on end if they don't have water to go into to relieve themselves. Wouldn't you need a microscope to see if there parasites? 
> 
> -Put the frog back in that freshly cleaned container and let your pixie chill in it for 30min - 2 hours (your decision) 
> ...


Eel,

Very muddy does not mean puddly.  there is no visible water, just very very moist.  I have never had a stinky cage when done like this.

if you watch my youtube video "African bullfrog eats bird and clean cage"  I show how i do this.  i do add a little water to the cage after he eats.  But he almost always goes #2 and they are HUGE.

I let him chill in that container.  its not time consuming.  I go do what ever and when ever i think about it i put him back in his cage.  Usually he starts getting anxious to get out after he sheds.  he seems to like to do all his shedding while in the water, once he is done, he wants out of the water and continuosly walks back and forth and wont sit still.   If you read the thread "has anyone successfully breed pixies"  Buck Rogers, who lives in Africa,  tell us that these frogs are almost never in the water.  they like mucky substrate much better.  So that is what i immitate. 

My frog is a little over a year old but i have been doing this for the last 6 months or so.  I mostly did horned frogs before this pixie.  I didnt know that pixies, when they are babies, need to eat every other day.  horned frogs are not like that.  But I was sick of constantly cleaning his water bowl everyday.  turns out he doesnt even need it if you follow my instructions.  changing a water bowl everyday is very time consuming to me.  i only go in his cage once every 4 days or so to get him out for feeding.  His cage never smells. its very easy now.

What ever way you are doing it and like to do it is cool!!!  I prefer this way.

Thanks for the interest,
Dr. Matt

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## SCF

It's too bad I've been away to see this thread. I can't add anything that has not already been said by everyone participating in it. I'll at least throw out the word "interesting"  :Wink:

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## Dr. Matt

> It's too bad I've been away to see this thread. I can't add anything that has not already been said by everyone participating in it. I'll at least throw out the word "interesting"


I am finding out, from ones who live in the areas these frogs acually live, that i am doing this perfectly.  I am giving my frog exactly what they like in the wild.  so yes this is getting very interesting. :Smile:

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## Dr. Matt

Mr. Pickles still LOVES not having that nasty water container in his set-up.  getting rid of any and all standing water in his set-up has been the best decision i have made for him.  He is so colorful now!!!

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## Cap10Squirty

What if you could offer your frog clean water? If not by changing it several times daily, have it filtered and circulated?

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## Dr. Matt

> What if you could offer your frog clean water? If not by changing it several times daily, have it filtered and circulated?


why?  in the wild these frogs rarely ever go in open water other than during the rainy season fro breeding and rearing of young.   they love to sit in mud and mine is the most colorful frog i have ever seen.  why would i want to mess with changing water all the time or messing with a filter when they dont need it?

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## Jack

Mine has been in the water for over 24 hours.

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## Cap10Squirty

> why?  in the wild these frogs rarely ever go in open water other than during the rainy season fro breeding and rearing of young.   they love to sit in mud and mine is the most colorful frog i have ever seen.  why would i want to mess with changing water all the time or messing with a filter when they dont need it?


No frog owner has to offer their frog anything.....I choose to offer mine a water source to soak in and it spends most of its time sitting in it. If your frog is happy then great, mine seems to enjoy its water source but then again I don't speak African bullfrog and therefore cannot interpret it's nightly croaking :P



> Mine has been in the water for over 24 hours.


My frog has been in it's water for the better part of a week. Of course I change the water out twice a day as a result. I like the soaking dish Jack, is that an exo terra corner dish?

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## Jack

It's a Zoo Med XL corner bowl.  :Smile:

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## Bruce

Just read this whole thread, and although very interesting, my guy spends the majority of his time in his giant water dish, and that is with his soil kept moist. Since you're keen in trying new things (cooked foods for frogs), put a water dish in there for a little, see if he uses it at all!  If hes anything like ours im betting he will enjoy a nice soak once in awhile. My guy is also much more agressive in the water, and enjoyes submerging himself completely, of leaving only his eyes and nostrils above the water thinking hes being stealthy!  :Big Grin:

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## Jack

Matt here's an idea. Put a water bowl in the frogs enclosure for a week or two and see if he ever goes in it. If he does then you keep it in because your frog clearly likes it. It would only take up five minutes a day to clean and replace water or is that to much of a hardship for you to bare?

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## Cap10Squirty

> Just read this whole thread, and although very interesting, my guy spends the majority of his time in his giant water dish, and that is with his soil kept moist. Since you're keen in trying new things (cooked foods for frogs), put a water dish in there for a little, see if he uses it at all!  If hes anything like ours im betting he will enjoy a nice soak once in awhile. My guy is also much more agressive in the water, and enjoyes submerging himself completely, of leaving only his eyes and nostrils above the water thinking hes being stealthy!


That is exactly what my frog does! They think just because they are in the water they are invisible haha  :Smile: 

I agree on giving the water dish a try, but I think Matt has already done so and is of a different mindset towards using them.

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## NialR35

> Matt here's an idea. Put a water bowl in the frogs enclosure for a week or two and see if he ever goes in it. If he does then you keep it in because your frog clearly likes it. It would only take up five minutes a day to clean and replace water or is that to much of a hardship for you to bare?


Apparently rinsing a water bowl on a daily basis is hard.

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## Jack

Oh yes, I go to great lengths and push my body to the limits in order to provide my frog with clean water.  :Big Grin:

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## NialR35

> Mr. Pickles still LOVES not having that nasty water container in his set-up.  getting rid of any and all standing water in his set-up has been the best decision i have made for him.  He is so colorful now!!!


I don't understand what makes the water nasty? Do you let it get soiled and rot so bad that it becomes a swamp? By not providing a water bowl for your frog to soak and regulate his temperature is as awkward as owning a bird and put it in a cage without a perch. 

Are you implying that your frog is more "colorful" now (even though all pixies are the same color when fully grown) since you removed all types of water from his set up? I did not understand that colorful sentence with all those exclamation marks.

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## NialR35

> Oh yes, I go to great lengths and push my body to the limits in order to provide my frog with clean water.


Flexing is hard bro  :Numbness:

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## Cap10Squirty

> I don't understand what makes the water nasty? Do you let it get soiled and rot so bad that it becomes a swamp? By not providing a water bowl for your frog to soak and regulate his temperature is as awkward as owning a bird and put it in a cage without a perch. 
> 
> Are you implying that your frog is more "colorful" now (even though all pixies are the same color when fully grown) since you removed all types of water from his set up? I did not understand that colorful sentence with all those exclamation marks.


I think we all would be interested in seeing photos, as sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words?

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## Jack

Not all pixies are the same colour as adults. My frog is a light green whereas some are a darker green. The overall health of the frog and it's living quarters can also determine its colour but that's usually a more dramatic change.

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## NialR35

Yea but the color is still green. There are different shades of pyxies but for the most part, they are all almost the same color.  Like you said, living conditions do affect this though.

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## Jack

I have seen some YouTube videos of matts frog and I have to say it's very large and appears healthy on the outside. This may not reflect what's going on inside the frog though.

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## Dr. Matt

> I have seen some YouTube videos of matts frog and I have to say it's very large and appears healthy on the outside. This may not reflect what's going on inside the frog though.


Oh He is healthy all right!! and hungry all the time!  He is the most colorful pixie i have ever seen.  I primarily feed him fish now.  even though there is a pesky bat that keeps getting in my attic so a bat might be soon on the dinner list for Mr. Pickles! (:
Thanks Jack for your positive observations and sharing that with those who just want to argue with me about my ways but have no interest in trying these proven new methods.

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## Dr. Matt

> Matt here's an idea. Put a water bowl in the frogs enclosure for a week or two and see if he ever goes in it. If he does then you keep it in because your frog clearly likes it. It would only take up five minutes a day to clean and replace water or is that to much of a hardship for you to bare?


Jack i already did that.  He acts NO different since i removed that nasty thing.  So it is common sense that it made no difference but aid to bacteria growth.  Just get rid of those bacteria bath houses of disease, aka water dishes, your frog will love you for it!!

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## Cap10Squirty

> Jack i already did that.  He acts NO different since i removed that nasty thing.  So it is common sense that it made no difference but aid to bacteria growth.  Just get rid of those bacteria bath houses of disease, aka water dishes, your frog will love you for it!!


Do you mist the soil/substrate? I guarantee you that there is potential for more bacteria growth in and around the substrate than there is in the water. Might as well remove that nasty old substrate! Your frog will probably turn every color of the rainbow then  :Smile:

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## Dr. Matt

> Do you mist the soil/substrate? I guarantee you that there is potential for more bacteria growth in and around the substrate than there is in the water. Might as well remove that nasty old substrate! Your frog will probably turn every color of the rainbow then


I only have to replace the substate about once a month!  It is sooooo easy now!  MY WAYS DO WORK!!!

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## Cap10Squirty

I change my frog's substrate about once a month as well...that should be good enough depending on how well it's kept in between changings.

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## Dr. Matt

> I change my frog's substrate about once a month as well...that should be good enough depending on how well it's kept in between changings.


thats cool!  but thats all i do.  no changing water bowls, no messing with filters, no nothing else!  i feed him in a different tank every 3-5 days and change his enclosures substrate once a month,  thats it!

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## Dr. Matt

All i do is replicate their natural enviroment.  If you look up the type of area these guys live in during the time they are above ground you will find that they rarely ever swim in water or even like to sit in more than an inch of water.  they like super moist soil in a nice shady spot under a bush.  THAT IS A FACT!  they poop in water but they wont poop or pee where they sit in their little area.   you should read all these post that belittled my idea and time has now shown that i am right.  a beautiful 8+ inch aggressive frog to prove it. (:    If you are sick of dealing with water bowls then read this whole thread and see if my way frees up some of your maintenance time and gives you a more beautiful and healthy frog in return.  do less work and get a better frog,  thats the American way! (:

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## Dr. Matt

> All i do is replicate their natural enviroment.  If you look up the type of area these guys live in during the time they are above ground you will find that they rarely ever swim in water or even like to sit in more than an inch of water.  they like super moist soil in a nice shady spot under a bush.  THAT IS A FACT!  they poop in water but they wont poop or pee where they sit in their little area.   you should read all these post that belittled my idea and time has now shown that i am right.  a beautiful 8+ inch aggressive frog to prove it. (:    If you are sick of dealing with water bowls then read this whole thread and see if my way frees up some of your maintenance time and gives you a more beautiful and healthy frog in return.  do less work and get a better frog,  thats the American way! (:


i have to add that the only time they need to spend in the water in the wild is breeding, brooding of young, and pooping and peeing.  other than that they rarely ever go in the open or deeper water.   the videos you see about these frogs in the wild is taken during breeding time.  people who live in the area these frogs are from say that they rarely ever find these frogs in the water.  they find them all the time in muddy shaded areas.

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## Kelsieb

> i have to add that the only time they need to spend in the water in the wild is breeding, brooding of young, and pooping and peeing.  other than that they rarely ever go in the open or deeper water.   the videos you see about these frogs in the wild is taken during breeding time.  people who live in the area these frogs are from say that they rarely ever find these frogs in the water.  they find them all the time in muddy shaded areas.


You are forgetting that your frog is not in the wild and in captivity has no choice which is why you, as the captor, is supposed to provide them with everything they need even if you think it is unnecessary. In the wild they have a choice of going in the water, aka in captivity a water bowl.

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## Dr. Matt

> You are forgetting that your frog is not in the wild and in captivity has no choice which is why you, as the captor, is supposed to provide them with everything they need even if you think it is unnecessary. In the wild they have a choice of going in the water, aka in captivity a water bowl.


a true collector provides what is BEST for their pets.  I believe a water bowl is more of a threat to health problems than not having one.  If you took time to read my post you would see that after each meal he soaks in fresh water for an hour or so.  He is the best looking frog i have ever seen and i have seen A TON of adult male Pixies.  If you love your water feature that is your descition, but for new people who have 3 kids and want a Awesome full sized adult Pixie but are short on free time.  this thread IS going to help them get the frog they want and have it looking awesome without all the maintenance.  Its really that simple. (:

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## Kelsieb

> a true collector provides what is BEST for their pets.  I believe a water bowl is more of a threat to health problems than not having one.  If you took time to read my post you would see that after each meal he soaks in fresh water for an hour or so.  He is the best looking frog i have ever seen and i have seen A TON of adult male Pixies.  If you love your water feature that is your descition, but for new people who have 3 kids and want a Awesome full sized adult Pixie but are short on free time.  this thread IS going to help them get the frog they want and have it looking awesome without all the maintenance.  Its really that simple. (:



Ditching the water bowl to save time is unfair to your frog. As is forcing him to live without a constant water supply and instead forcing him to live like a pig in slop. You truly believe all that mud and sloppy mess will not grow bacteria? I suggest you look up how bacteria grows, it lives for that mess you call an alternative to water dishes.

Also, I'm not a collector I am a pet owner. I own living animals not baseball cards. I despise the terms 'collector' and 'collection'.

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## Dr. Matt

> Ditching the water bowl to save time is unfair to your frog. As is forcing him to live without a constant water supply and instead forcing him to live like a pig in slop. You truly believe all that mud and sloppy mess will not grow bacteria? I suggest you look up how bacteria grows, it lives for that mess you call an alternative to water dishes.
> 
> Also, I'm not a collector I am a pet owner. I own living animals not baseball cards. I despise the terms 'collector' and 'collection'.


Bacteria is everywhere.  Bad bacteria grows where an abundance of food is present, doo-doo, pee-pee, stagnant water, dirty filter pads,,,,.  My frog NEVER goes to the bathroom in his cage thus the "mud" doesnt have much food for harmful bacteria.  Even when i stir-up the "mud" in his home tank, when he is chillin in his feeding tank, it doesnt smell.  It is your "opinion" that i am depriving anything from my frog because the fact is my frog is Healthy and Beautiful.  If a frog needed to drink water orally then not providing a water source would be not only depriving but cruel!  But they dont drink water they absorb it so providing extra moist "mud" is exactly what they need.  So to say that a water feature is a "need" is false.

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## Skelly98

Posted this in the other thread earlier... re posted here, because It was more relevant.

However, can you really be sure about the fact that your results are sound? What about what is going on inside the frog? Do you know for sure that your frog is not getting any internal issues, such as kidney damage, from the reduced availability of water?

Interesting idea, however. I have kept animals, such as bearded dragons and uromastyx without water for some time, but these are desert animals (Not phibs), and i had other ways of hydrating them (ex, putting water in/on their food, misting and letting them lick the drops). 

So, you never put your frog in water? Not even for a soak or something while cleaning? Forgive me if i missed it.. 

And, do you ever get your frog checked by a vet for internal issues? You certainly have a interesting idea and a healthy looking frog, but looks can be deceiving... I'd be interested in seeing some test results, after a few months to a few years, and seeing how hydration and organ health stacks up against a normally kept frog.

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## Dr. Matt

> Posted this in the other thread earlier... re posted here, because It was more relevant.
> 
> However, can you really be sure about the fact that your results are sound? What about what is going on inside the frog? Do you know for sure that your frog is not getting any internal issues, such as kidney damage, from the reduced availability of water?
> 
> Interesting idea, however. I have kept animals, such as bearded dragons and uromastyx without water for some time, but these are desert animals (Not phibs), and i had other ways of hydrating them (ex, putting water in/on their food, misting and letting them lick the drops). 
> 
> So, you never put your frog in water? Not even for a soak or something while cleaning? Forgive me if i missed it.. 
> 
> And, do you ever get your frog checked by a vet for internal issues? You certainly have a interesting idea and a healthy looking frog, but looks can be deceiving... I'd be interested in seeing some test results, after a few months to a few years, and seeing how hydration and organ health stacks up against a normally kept frog.


thank you for your interest! (:   Yes he does soak in fresh water after every feeding.  Frogs need to have a constant way to absorb water, they dont need to "drink" it they need to constantly absorb it.  so if you have an enclosure with dry substrate then you will need to provide a water source they can sit in for awhile.  But if you provide constant moist substrate then there is no need for another water source.  So there is absolutely no need to find out if Mr. Pickles is dehidrated because he is not.

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## Kelsieb

> Bacteria is everywhere.  Bad bacteria grows where an abundance of food is present, doo-doo, pee-pee, stagnant water, dirty filter pads,,,,.  My frog NEVER goes to the bathroom in his cage thus the "mud" doesnt have much food for harmful bacteria.  Even when i stir-up the "mud" in his home tank, when he is chillin in his feeding tank, it doesnt smell.  It is your "opinion" that i am depriving anything from my frog because the fact is my frog is Healthy and Beautiful.  If a frog needed to drink water orally then not providing a water source would be not only depriving but cruel!  But they dont drink water they absorb it so providing extra moist "mud" is exactly what they need.  So to say that a water feature is a "need" is false.


I believe it is a need because he is a FROG and generally frogs enjoy a good source of water, not slop! Constant high moisture can produce fungus, fungal infections, bacterial infections, etc. Perhaps it woudn't be as much of an issue if you cleaned his cage regularly but in your other thread you admitted that you only clean his cage out every three months. That is enough time for bacteria and fungus to form, especially if he urinates as much as my frogs. There's no way you can catch him EVERY time he pees and since you have him in slop there's a chance that until you decide to clean out his slop bucket of a cage he's sitting in his own bacteria filled urine and mud hole. You claim there is no smell, but how do we know you are being truthful? Obviously since you are trying to convert people to your ways you will only say good things about this experiment with your frogs life.

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## Carlos

Same warning as in the other thread:  http://www.frogforum.net/african-bul...tml#post218620.  Either the flame war stops or threads will be closed  :EEK!:  !

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## Dr. Matt

> I believe it is a need because he is a FROG and generally frogs enjoy a good source of water, not slop! Constant high moisture can produce fungus, fungal infections, bacterial infections, etc. Perhaps it woudn't be as much of an issue if you cleaned his cage regularly but in your other thread you admitted that you only clean his cage out every three months. That is enough time for bacteria and fungus to form, especially if he urinates as much as my frogs. There's no way you can catch him EVERY time he pees and since you have him in slop there's a chance that until you decide to clean out his slop bucket of a cage he's sitting in his own bacteria filled urine and mud hole. You claim there is no smell, but how do we know you are being truthful? Obviously since you are trying to convert people to your ways you will only say good things about this experiment with your frogs life.


I am not a liar.  I have found a way that new comers should try!  they can tell you that this way works when they try it.  All the best!!!

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