# Frogs & Toads > Pacman Frogs >  Yet another new baby frog topic! I need your expertise please!

## NialR35

First of all, I would like to thank all the great contributors in these forums. I have been doing research throughout several topics within these forums prior to getting my baby pacman frog so I can educate myself and be prepared and you all have been great with all the advise you have provided; but I have encountered some issues and need your expertise on my particular case. I obtained my pacman two days ago and well here is my info:

1.   Size of enclosure-  Exo Terra 18x18x12( But I recently moved my baby to a medium sized critter carrier)  
2.   # of inhabitants - 1
3.   Humidity- 80%
4.   Temperature-78-80
5.   Water - type - I use tap water treated with reptisafe for everything.
6.   Materials used for substrate- Eco Earth
7.   Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials: Pastic plant/leaves, "wood" log, water dish, and I covered one side of the Exo Terra terrarium with a laminated "jungle-like" screen to reduce stress, the other side is mostly covered by the UTH and the other side covered with the foam rock thing that came with the terrarium.
8.    Main food source- Crickets- He has not eaten since I got him at all.
9.    Vitamins and calcium? (how often)- The idea is twice per week Ca and once per week multivitamins. Using repcal.
10.   Lighting- Two 5.5" lamps with dimmers and a 50 watt zoo med basking spot lamp with tight beam and another 50watt zoo med nocturnal infrared heat lamp for the night. 
11.   What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure- Side mounted zoo med UTH and the recently acquired basking lamp/infrared
12.   When is the last time he/she ate- Two days ago
13.   Have you found poop lately- Don't think so
14.   A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)-attached
15.   How old is the frog- I don't know, probably less than 4 months. Under two inches for sure.
16.   How long have you owned him/her-2 days
17.   Is the frog wild caught or captive bred-Most likely captive bred.
18.   Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats- Only have tried crickets with no luck.
19.   How often the frog is handled- Never.
20.   Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area-No traffic at all, alone in my room.
21.   Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)- changing water daily, misting 2-3 times per day, adjusting light bulbs accordingly


The main problem is: HE IS NOT EATING! 

I acquired my baby frog two days ago, he has not eaten at all yet. I had him in the 18x18x12 exo terra and after doing much research in these forums, I moved him today to a medium critter carrier that I placed inside the exo terra terrarium( I did this to eliminate the "too-big-for-him" rule, so let's see what happens). I also bought the basking light/infrared lights today in order to help me reach a stable temperature of 82 F during the daytime because the side mounted heat pad was not doing it, so I bought the dimming lamp with those bulbs to supplement the lack of heat.  I also bought these lamps to help me with the day/night cycle because my room is dark and daylight is barely in it since I keep my shades closed when I go to work.

a)Is it okay to put the critter carrier inside the bigger cage? I only did this because 1) I did not want to attach the UTH to the plastic carrier and 2) I did not want to put the lamps on top of the plastic carrier either because it would be way too close. However I also bought an exo terra thermometer-hygrometer combo digital meter because I was using an analog dual-gauge zoo med one but temp never went higher than 78 so I bought a digital one to be safe. I also put an old pillow case covering half of the exo terra cage to help me with the humidity and temps.

b)How can I get him to eat? It has been two days, he does look "fat" but spends the whole day burrowed and I have tried to feed him a couple of times using tongues and shaking the cricket like a Polaroid picture in front of him but nothing! I'm starting to get worried, even though this type of behavior might be normal for a new pacman baby but I really hope he starts eating soon. Crickets are dying =(. I'm feeding the crickets fluckers orange cube, are those okay? Are nightcrawlers/mealworms the same thing and better than crickets?

c) Do I need to do anything else as far as his habitat? What times are best to feed him? 

I followed Grif's every word of advise combined into one habitat lol, but please help me! This is my first frog and I've always been interested in pacman's( who doesn't love watching them eat? =) ) and I have tried everything I could and read to make this work so I hope the recently acquired critter carrier along with the lamps help this little guy out. Thanks in advance guys!

p.s- The temps shown on the picture are when I first put the probe from the new digital meter. As of now they are 80F and 80% which is an improvement. Sorry I was not able to take a picture of him, but he was deeply burrowed and I guess sleeping.

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## MatthewM1

I would raise temps to 82-83 but he probably just needs time to settle in, some take a few days after being brought home to relax and eat. Try offering food about 30 mins or so after lights out. Also he may be afraid of the tongs, try just dropping a cricket in there and letting it run around a bit, remove it if he hasn't eaten it by the next morning. Avoid mealworms their shells are much harder than crickets and can cause impaction. Nightcrawlers make an excellent food though

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2

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## Lija

ha, somebody sure did a great research on a frog! good job! 
 the problem with small tank inside the big one, you need to move it every time you do something, feed/change water/etc, so a frog will be experiencing earthquakes on a regular basis = possibly stressing out. what you can do is to cover 3 sides of your keeper and stick your heat pad to it.
 2 days and not eating is ok, he needs time to adjust, but i'd like to know if he is albino or not ( lights choice will depend on it)
 or and you gotta raise temps a little and do a night drop of a few degrees - 80-82 ( day), 76-78( night)

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## NialR35

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

He is not albino, just green  with yellow lines. Yea, it's kinda of a hassle to clean and stuff while  the carrier inside, but other than that it should be fine right?

Is  it okay to apply the heat pad to the plastic carrier? I thought it was  only good for glass? I only put the carrier inside the tank today because I thought it wasn't good to apply such a big heat pad( its for a 10-20 gallon tank) to a small critter carrier. Will this affect temperatures inside the  carrier though? I did make sure I put the digital meter's probe inside  the carrier to make sure I have good readings. 

He's been  burrowed all day, I hope he comes out at night to eat something. I will  try what Matthew said. Dropping a couple crickets inside to see if he  eats them while I sleep. But is there anything to look out for? Am I  okay for now and should just wait it out? Thank you Lija and Matthew.

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## Lija

you're welcome.
you need mini heat pad, the one for hermit crabs or you can place a heat lamp above the tank, but not directly on it of course.
Matthew gave you an excellent advice! but the guys won't eat until he feels safe, it is not fun to hunt when you might become food yourself  :Smile:  so give him some time, he'll come around, you did well on everything!

edit - read your post again, don't tong feed him now, if you don't know if he is tong trained. how deep he buried?  you can gently uncover his head so he can see and drop a few crickets ( not too big, make sure they're no more then distance between his eyes) to roam free, and do it after lights are off and temps down, like in 30min.

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## NialR35

Cool. So far I just turned off his daylight and drop 4 crickets that are right for his size. He is completely buried and hasn't come out in a couple of hours. I lowered his temp 77 and the crickets are in there.  I hope he gets out of his insecurity bubble soon, he did look healthy when I got him so hopefully its just that. =( I will keep you guys updated tomorrow...

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## Colleen/Jerrod

The only suggestion I will make is to cover 3 sides of the carrier with some kind of background. Even though he is inside the other tank he can see out the sides of the carrier and may still feel that he is in a larger area than he really is.

You've done an excellet job with your research!

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## NialR35

Thanks guys!

To Grif: Do I really have to take the carrier out and cover it? Can I wrap a sweater around it or something? I don't think the laminated paper I have will stick to the plastic carrier. Do you think it will make a big difference? Even if he looks outside of the carrier, the walls of the big tank are covered though. Let me know.

Also, if I take the carrier out of the tank, how do I keep it warm? My dimmer lamps do not have clamps ( I was not able to find the ones you always recommend but I found these other ones that work the same way expect without a clamp), and my heat pad is too big for that carrier. Can I attach a UTH to a plastic carrier? I'm using one of those hermit crab ones until he grows; and I don't think I should place my basking lamp on top of the plastic carrier because he will get fried and so will the plastic probably. 

 I REALLY would like to take the carrier out of the big tank, but the problem is how do I keep it warm?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Lija explained above. You need to place a Hermit Crab UTH on the side of the carrier. Zoo Med Mini UTHs are safe for plastic so you can attach on to the side of the carrier. This will be enough to help warm it.

As for placing background on the carrier. Yes it will make a difference. Just tape the background on. Static cling backgrounds are also good and will adhere to the plastic carrier. 

Next time you feed him just uncover his head so that he can see food is present.

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## NialR35

I see. Okay, I will buy a zoo med mini UTH and something to attach to the sides of the plastic carrier. I hope this does the trick, because it really is annoying to do stuff while the carrier is inside the tank. I just really hope that it is and the frog isn't sick or something. I got him at Petsmart. 

Also, just for future reference: for Albino frogs you cannot use the basking light, so what do you use instead for a daylight light to compensate heat? I read something like a ceramic bulb or something. Remember I do need light because my room is dark and I don't want it to affect the day/night cycle.

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## NialR35

Updates:

I bought a zoo med mini UTH for the  plastic carrier along with a background for it. It seems the temperature is a little higher in the carrier with that mini UTH so I wont be using the lamp for now. 

For some reason the zoo med analog gauges are giving me lower readings that the digital one...could it be because the analog meters are on the "cool side" of the carrier and the probe for the digital is next to the heat pad? 

Another thing that I consider good is that while I doing the new additions to the carrier, he went to the bathroom. That should be a plus right? Hopefully he starts eating  soon, it's been three days that I have not seen him eat.

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## Lija

or it is because  majority of analog ones are garbage  :Smile:  probe on a digital should be in a dead centre of everything, in a middle between cool side and a heat pad.

yes if he pooped it is good.

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## NialR35

I moved the probe to the middle of the carrier, and the temp dropped to 77.5 yet humidity stayed at 80. These temp monitoring can drive you crazy sometimes lol... Since i have a fairly small carrier( I'd say around 2.5 gal or a little less) I ended up putting the mini uth on the left side of the carrier and the water bowl on the right side of the carrier so that it evens out on the cool side/warm side OR should I put the UTH on the front/back of the carrier? I will tried the tips you all gave me tonight during feeding time. I'm just worried I haven't been able to dust yet...oh well.

 Thank you anyway Lija, I will keep you all posted!

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## Lija

you're welcome!
not dusting for a day or 2 not big deal at all, as long as he eats anything it is good.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

UTH on the back is best.

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## NialR35

Just a quick update: 

After doing all those changes, I dropped 5 medium/ small crickets and this morning I only saw 2 left so hopefully he ate some and they were not buried. 

Another thing was that the temperature was at 73 on the digital and 78-80 on the analog when I woke up this morning( way too cold) but it was 78 when I went to sleep. I did not use the infrared at night because I thought the mini heat pad was enough. Is this normal? I see the temps are not reaching 82 unless I use the lamps at about 75% power. Should I really have to use both? I'm finding it hard to tweak the temps....

Also is there anything easier to feed than crickets? They are a hassle lol

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## Lija

for a baby crickets are easiest, unless he'd eat from tongs, but I'd wait for that until you know he is eating. 
 temps are hassle, yes  :Smile:  unless you have hydrotherm who'd do it for you.

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## NialR35

Thanks Lija! What does a hydrotherm do? does it control both temp and humidity to whatever temps you set it to? If so what's a good one/brand?

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## NialR35

How do you all keep your temps/humidity steady and what do you use? Tweaking this every hours is a pain.

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## Lija

> How do you all keep your temps/humidity steady and what do you use? Tweaking this every hours is a pain.


 hydrotherm! that is how we do, or just figuring out after days of a checking on temps/humidity what works.
 hydrotherm by zoomed is a humidity and temp controller, fogger and heat devices plugged in = headache free life for human. unless you live in super dry climate like me, then you need to flood your substrate once in a while or spray but that is not a big deal.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

The Hygrotherm will work for the big tank, but not the keeper. Can't easily adapt a fogger for it and no place to feed in the large sensor with the lid on.

Just mist him a couple times a day and keep him in the warmest room. At night you can use an infrared bulb in the lamp and point it at the keeper, but keep the lamp 10" to 12" away.

Have you covered the lid of the keeper with Saran Wrap/Plastic Wrap? From the picturesit looks like you have not. Doing so will help maintain temp and humidity levels. Just cut a piece large enough to cover the top of the lid draping down over the front and back vents, but leave the side vents open for air circulation. Tape the Saran Wrap to the lid and cut a whole in the top just large enough to open the access door on the top so you can drop food in and open it to check on the frog. This will help.

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## NialR35

Thanks again Lija!!

@Grif: I managed to use the tank's screen lid to rest my lamps on it while keeping the 12" distance from the lamp to the carrier but I noticed when i got back home from work that the water tank was empty!! Which means the basking light evaporated it. 

-If i use the infrared lamp instead, will this cause the water to evaporate as well?

-Also from the pictures I just posted, seeing how close the lamp is to the carrier....that won't melt/ignite the plastic wrap right? lol just wondering before I do it...Will plastic wrap help increase temps? I really don't know what to do anymore and I'm having a tough time dimming the light almost at 80% power and it's still not really warming it up where its supposed to which leads to the next question....sensor placement

-I'm using zoo med combo meter( has a hygrometer/ thermometer built in- it's the black one) It does not really have a probe but rather something like a censor...I'm currently placing it on the left side of the carrier, towards the middle away from the heat pad that is placed on the back. Is that a good place to put that sensor? As of now it only reads 78.6 F and 87% humidity but that temp is too low for daytime so I'm wondering if i placed the thing in the right place. I'm assuming the area next to the heat pad is a lot hotter but the baby is on the opposite side next to the water bowl, which is on the far right.

 I'm open to any ideas if you guys suggest relocating stuff inside the carrier and what not.

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## NialR35

About the hygrotherm:

From the pictures I found, you can only hook up two devices to it; unless I'm wrong. So I also would need to buy a fogger for this to work out right?

-Which fogger do you guys recommend that is compatible with the zoo med Hygrotherm?
-I have dimming lamps with my bulbs and a UTH as well. Which one do you guys plug to this Hygrotherm? Because from what the picture shows, one plug is for the heat and the other one for the fogger. Educate me on this because when I move my frog to the big tank I will for sure get this to make my life easier. I don't mind misting at all, and I live in Florida so humidity is always there hahaha, but tweaking the temps every couple of hours is annoying.
-It really bothers me that the analog shows me 81F and 55% humid but the digital shows 79F and 86% humid. =(

How do you guys have this set up? Thanks for everything!!

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## Colleen/Jerrod

If you cover to top of the lid with plastic wrap you may not need to use the lamp or just use it on a really low setting. Yes if the light produces enough heat or comes into contact with the plastic wrap it can melt it or worse. I never suspend the lamps directly over the keepers. I pisition them so that they are pointed at the keeper and not shining inside or directly over the top. Plastic wrap will help with temps and humidity. Never place the lamp over the water dish.

As for gauge position. When using a keeper such as this I always place the sensor or gauges in the center of the front wall across from the UTH. This way it is inbetween the warm and cool sides. Gives an overall average reading.

High 70°s is not bad really, but you don't want to be lower than that.

As for the Hygrotherm well I only use mine to maintainthe humidity levels. You can hook the UTH up to the heating outlet if you like, but it takes a while for them to heat back up after the unit has turned the UTH off after reaching the desired climate. Light will annoy the frog coming on and off. Use an infrared bulb if you like, but it will dry the water out too. The water evaporated because you have an open vented lid so the moisture ecscapes quickly.

I like the Zoo Med Reptifogger, but Lija has had bad luck with them so she doesn't. As long as you use distilled water in the fogger it will last quite some time.

My UTHs are on constantly. Lamps are only used for supplemental heat if needed and are on timers. Humidity controled by the Hygrotherm. My sensors are in the center of the lower back wall 1.5" to 2" above the substrate. This is how low you should position your gauges/sensors unless the UTH is on the back then you can place them on the sides or front.

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## NialR35

Thanks Grif!

Now you said that you control your lamps with timers, what timers do you use for that? We have similar dimming lamps, so how do the timers work with a dimming lamp?

-Is it still bad to suspend my lamps once I move my frog to the big tank? I've seen lots of set ups with people suspending on top of the screen lid? Or you were referring to being bad on top of such a small carrier?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Thanks Grif!
> 
> Now you said that you control your lamps with timers, what timers do you use for that? We have similar dimming lamps, so how do the timers work with a dimming lamp?
> 
> -Is it still bad to suspend my lamps once I move my frog to the big tank? I've seen lots of set ups with people suspending on top of the screen lid? Or you were referring to being bad on top of such a small carrier?


Lamps can be suspended over tanks, but not the keepers. They are a more confined space and heat can build up inside easily possibly overheating the frog.

I use Zilla Power Centers that can be programed for turning on the lights for 12 hours and turning them off for 12 hours. In the summer I don't use night time bulbs because the temp doesn't drop far in their enclosures at night. During the day I use Concentrated spotlight bulbs that since they're concentrated I barely have to turn them up for extra heat. I fine tune the dimmer to where I want it and then let the timer do its thing. It also doubles as a surge protectorand has 4 constant outlets, 2 daytime, and 2 night time outlets. It is an excellent timer.

Edit; Never go over 50 watts for your bulbs and place a fake plant under where the light shines down for shade.

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## NialR35

Awesome, thanks so much Grif. I just finished  wrapping the top of the carrier with plastic wrap and it sure helped me sustain the temps/humidity.  :Frog Smile:  

I will keep it mind to check out the Zilla Power Centers that can be programed for turning on the lights for 12 hours and the Zoo Med Hygrotherm for the future. They look like they can come it handy. Man I've already spent so much money buying little things that add up lol.

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## NialR35

Another thing for future reference. Where would be a good place to buy pacmans?( I do see myself getting a second one sometime in the future hahaha) Is LLLreptile a reliable place?

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## SCF

> Another thing for future reference. Where would be a good place to buy pacmans?( I do see myself getting a second one sometime in the future hahaha) Is LLLreptile a reliable place?


They are.

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## Lija

> Awesome, thanks so much Grif. I just finished  wrapping the top of the carrier with plastic wrap and it sure helped me sustain the temps/humidity.  
> 
> I will keep it mind to check out the Zilla Power Centers that can be programed for turning on the lights for 12 hours and the Zoo Med Hygrotherm for the future. They look like they can come it handy. Man I've already spent so much money buying little things that add up lol.


 i use regular timers from home depot/walmart/any hardware store, zilla power centers are 3 times more expensive, but they more functions, if you use timer just to turns lamps on and then off simple timer will do, they're like 7-10$. 
 i do combo for all my tanks that need it, everything is on 12h on/off, so everything is plugged in one timer ( long chain of connectors and plugs) and then hydrotherms controls temps/humidity or just temps depending what i need. i also have a few zoomed reptiterm 500R controllers, they work great, but they are not digital.
 i use one hydrotherm for 2 pacman tanks that are same size, i have 1 fogger with 2 outputs ( one for each tank) and 2 heat lamps ( i use infrared).

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> i use regular timers from home depot/walmart/any hardware store, zilla power centers are 3 times more expensive, but they more functions, if you use timer just to turns lamps on and then off simple timer will do, they're like 7-10$. 
>  i do combo for all my tanks that need it, everything is on 12h on/off, so everything is plugged in one timer ( long chain of connectors and plugs) and then hydrotherms controls temps/humidity or just temps depending what i need. i also have a few zoomed reptiterm 500R controllers, they work great, but they are not digital.
>  i use one hydrotherm for 2 pacman tanks that are same size, i have 1 fogger with 2 outputs ( one for each tank) and 2 heat lamps ( i use infrared).


Lol! Lija sure the power centers are more expensive but they also help greatly when you have as many frogs as I do. 21 remember? I need the extra functions and the surge protector feature is good to have.

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## Lija

omg, pardon my grammar in a previous post lol i guess it has something to do with us sitting at 95F without air conditioner.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> omg, pardon my grammar in a previous post lol i guess it has something to do with us sitting at 95F without air conditioner.


Lol!!!

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## NialR35

LOL@Lija. No wonder hahahha.

I just got home from work and I noticed he was not buried and the temps were at 76.5F(This was with the plastic wrap, UTH and the lamp dimmed really low) I guess I really need to use the lamp to keep the temp higher even by using plastic wrap and the UTH. Is this normal that he was not buried during the day? Or could it be because the temps were low? Apparently i'll be misting a lot too, I even turn the a/c vent away from his carrier but temps seem lower than I want. 

What do you guy use to clean the items that go INSIDE the tank? I bought wipeout 1 to clean the actual tank but it says you cannot use it for other things. What do you guys clean/disinfect the things that go in the tank? Thanks

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> LOL@Lija. No wonder hahahha.
> 
> I just got home from work and I noticed he was not buried and the temps were at 76.5F(This was with the plastic wrap, UTH and the lamp dimmed really low) I guess I really need to use the lamp to keep the temp higher even by using plastic wrap and the UTH. Is this normal that he was not buried during the day? Or could it be because the temps were low? Apparently i'll be misting a lot too, I even turn the a/c vent away from his carrier but temps seem lower than I want. 
> 
> What do you guy use to clean the items that go INSIDE the tank? I bought wipeout 1 to clean the actual tank but it says you cannot use it for other things. What do you guys clean/disinfect the things that go in the tank? Thanks


I scald any furniture with really hot tap water that isn't treated then dry the items by wiping them down then s ald with treated tap water and dry completely again. I do not like to use harsh chemicals on any wood or fake plants. There are some natural products out their that can be used, but I've tried some and didn't like them. I use Wipe Out 1 for tank cleaning.

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## NialR35

So you pretty much just rinse the stuff with water then? I thought you had to disinfect once a month? Do you do the same for the water bowl? 

By the way, I still have a bunch of eco earth that I had place in the big tank prior moving him. Can i re use that or it will be too old by the time I have to change the carrier's eco earth?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> So you pretty much just rinse the stuff with water then? I thought you had to disinfect once a month? Do you do the same for the water bowl? 
> 
> By the way, I still have a bunch of eco earth that I had place in the big tank prior moving him. Can i re use that or it will be too old by the time I have to change the carrier's eco earth?


It may become too old by that time.

Water dishes can be scalded and wiped out really well. You can buy Wipe Out 2 which can be used for water dishes. Mine are changed daily to everyother day not allowing the time for harmful bacteria to breed in the water. Once the water is soiled change it immediately.

I disinfect the enclosure itself, but not the furniture. Drift wood will slowly begin to rot after a while. It is natural and. Does no harm as long as fungal growth doesn't get out of hand which rarely occurs . Fake plants just need rinsed off well and wiped down. Substrate gets replaced with new.  This is what I do and does not pertain to anyone elses methods.  In a Pacman Frogs enclosure they are normally very basic and do not have much to disinfect aside for the enclosure itself.

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## NialR35

I see. Sounds easier than I thought then  :Big Applause: . 

When you say wipe it you mean using a like a regular paper towel or something special to wipe it with?  Do you use those real wood logs that they sell for terrariums? I bought this "fake"wood one thinking it would be more durable and it would not rot.

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## Lija

> Lol!!!


 not funny  :Frown: ((((( lol it is always dilemma to get AC or not, we have summer for like 2 month the max and the days like today may be 5-10 in a year, so you think first thing tomorrow am i do is to get AC, but you look at the forecast and see rain and +70 max in a few next days.
 but it is seriously crazy today, and with not typical humidity  due to the floods it feels well above 100F.... sitting in a lake for 3 hours non stop worked  for us today very well  :Smile: 

 on topic - i do same as Grif - take everything out wash with very hot water, scrape water residue from the walls, i use terrarium cleaner by zilla, it makes glass more resistant to water residue or they say so  :Smile:  to disinfect  tank i use wipe off now, before i used vet grade disinfectant, will be back to it once wipe off is done, not big fan of it, it smells  :Smile: 
 i don't use any wood for pacs, just a few hanging plastic plants ( or just one) and water bowl.

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## NialR35

What do you guys normally feed your pacmans as a staple diet?  Crickets are kinda annoying.

And how do you dust the food? Plastic bag and shake? Lol

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## danfrog

I use nightcrawlers for calcium dust days, and crickets for vitamin dust days. Then a pinky once a month. Nothing wild caught.

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## danfrog

Oh and keep in mind that when female crickets lay eggs they die. Was keeping some crickets to gut load for a few days but they all layed eggs then died. I have to get some more now for fridays vitamin feeding.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

I use Night Crawlers as my frog's staple. I dust every other feeding with calcium D3 for babies and twice a week for adults. Multivitamin once per week for babies and adults, but not on the same day as the calcium.

For insect feeders a plastic bag is good to shake gentley to coat the insects, but for worms I use a small bowl. Rinse the worm off with dechlorinated water, dab dry with a paper towel, and then dip the worm in the supplement.

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## NialR35

Awesome, thanks guys. You should only feed once per day though right ?

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## Lija

yes, once a day

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## NialR35

Thank you so much guys, you all have been really helpful and knowledgeable!

I was reading the reptisafe instructions and it mentions that for 5 gallons of water, add a 5 ml of reptisafe. So I'm assuming it's safe to use 1ml for a gallon? I'm asking this for when the time comes to change the substrate, I was planning to buy a gallon of water and use that as a measurement to clean/scald/rinse the items and tank. Unless you all have a better way to do this from your own experience!  :Wink: 

Also how many different types of pacmans are there? Man I bought mine at petsmart not knowing all these "fantasy" "samurais" "dragon" pacs existed!!!  :Frown:   So for sure now I want to buy a second one that has horns and nice flashy colors, because honestly when they are full grown they are ugly so might as well get something with a nice pattern/colors hahaha. Any breeders that have a good reputation here? Thank guys, your unconditional help really has done a lot for me, and I hope one day I can do the same for others with the knowledge I gather from you all.

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## Lija

lol lol lol hahahaha hey that is how it starts, see that brown one in my avatar - that is the one that started it for me,  loved him to pieces, i didn't know about flashy colors either, a frog was a frog. period lol oh boy how it all changed  :Wink:  now you have a big list of frogs that you want, i believe Grif has 21 frog now lol just 10 for me  :Smile:  so far lol
and by the way that is why most of us are here, someone helped you and you want to give back to frog loving community by helping as many as you possibly can, and in a process learning more yourself, FF becomes your family :Smile:  froggy family, some people for different reasons don't have their frogs anymore but they're still around and share their knowledge! thank you guys for being here :Smile: 

 for  your question - i use prime, you buy one bottle for like 5-6 $ and it last forever ( 6 month or so), with yours use as it says on a bottle and yes, if it says 5ml per 5 gal, for 1 gallon you use 1 ml  :Smile: 
 and another question - there are a lot of different  species of pacman frogs, and each has different color morphs, trying to count  species- ornate, cranwelli, cornuta, joaz, aurita, stolzmanni, am i missing someone? and then cross species hybrids such as fantazy. in other words if you want to get all different colors of each different species and hybrids you better have a very big room and wallet lol

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## NialR35

LOL. Lija, I guess I'm not alone then ahhahahahah..... I want a fantasy so bad now hahahahha. ( I REALLY DO!!!!!!!  :Frog Smile:  ) they look much cooler and their colors/patterns seem very exotic-like as well. 

Can you guys recommend any breeders/websites to order me one? My local reptile store does not have any and I highly doubt petco/petsmart will have those either. Thanks

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## NialR35

> I use Night Crawlers as my frog's staple. I dust every other feeding with calcium D3 for babies and twice a week for adults. Multivitamin once per week for babies and adults, but not on the same day as the calcium.
> 
> For insect feeders a plastic bag is good to shake gentley to coat the insects, but for worms I use a small bowl. Rinse the worm off with dechlorinated water, dab dry with a paper towel, and then dip the worm in the supplement.


Thanks Grif! I'm for sure going to try night crawlers next, what about hornworms(are these the same as waxworms-green caterpillar looking things?)

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## Lija

hornworms are wonderful, expensive but as a treat they're great!  wax worms are different, tiny white things.

 fantasy you say? lol what about that:

c. cornuta


c. ornata

or these, not pacman, but couldn't resist lol


 m. nasuta and very mad female giant african bullfrog ( she bit me right after that shot)

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## NialR35

hahahaha! you are the best girl! me-lob-u! That nasuta frog looks possesed lol! So a fantasy is a hybrid between a cornuta and ornata right? Do you have any?  Do you recommend any breeders Lija?  :Big Applause:

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## Lija

> hahahaha! you are the best girl! me-lob-u! That nasuta frog looks possesed lol! So a fantasy is a hybrid between a cornuta and ornata right? Do you have any?  Do you recommend any breeders Lija?


 thanks  :Smile: 
 no, i don't have fantasy, i mean i do have one about that frog lol yes it is a hybrid, but between cornuta and cranwelli.

 ivory reptiles and Mike ( mikesfrogs), both here on a forum, but i haven't seen either in a while on  FF, i guess  they're busy with tons and tons of babies of every single colors imaginable lol 
 here some more pics


 and that tiny green cute baby turned out to be that lazy dude ( men right lol)

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## NialR35

OMG that frog looks like a sumo wrestler! I emailed Mikesfrogs so let's see what happens. Where is the pic of your fantasy huh?!?!?!?

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## Lija

no i don't have fantasy frog  :Frown:  but i want one, by the way my cornuta came from Mike. He is a great guy!

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## NialR35

Awesome, Thanks!

How much should I feed my baby? Like how many crickets/ night crawlers per day?

By the way, I already found about two crickets running around my room, how annoying is this. I'm really planning to switch to night crawlers asap, but can I drop the worms in the carrier the same way I'm dropping the crickets or I have to tong feed because they will burrow in the eco earth?

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## Lija

as many as it can eat in 15 min everyday is a general rule.. you have to tong feed worms and cut a worm starting from its butt to smaller pieces  (about distance between its eyes). it will probably be 2-3 pieces.

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## NialR35

Well mine is a baby and he barely started eating a couple of days ago, I haven't used tongs yet but I should try soon. Every night I just drop 4-5 crickets and when I wake up only 2-1 are left alive. So I'm pretty sure they are being eaten. I know the 15 min rule is mainly for adults but is it the same for babies?

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## Lija

yep same for a babies

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## NialR35

Should I drop the food in the carrier or take him out to feed him?

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## Lija

it is better to feed in his own home, this way he won't stress much.

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## NialR35

I think I've had enough with crickets  :Frog Surprise: . Somehow they escape, and I've put tape in every possible hole in that little carrier, some die too fast and someone told me is from laying eggs, smell kinda bad and gut loading is kinda annoying..... Night crawlers seem to be easier and more nutritious as far as I know. Is it safe to buy them from Walmart? Do they go by a different name?  Aren't they known as earthworms in some places too? I can't wait for my baby to slurp that like spaghetti!

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## Lija

wait, how come there no pics of your baby????? did you even post it? please do, for one we love pics and this way we can confirm ornate or cranwelli.

nightcrawlers are also known as dew worms, any bait store should have them, just make sure they're dye free.

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## NialR35

I will post a pic as soon as I'm able to get a good shot, he has been buried most of the time and comes out at night; but don't want to flash him but I'm on it.

Do you get your night crawlers at a bait store or online? any particular brands?

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## Lija

everywhere, doesn't matter. the bigger the better.

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## danfrog

I get my worms from the gas station where I buy my beer. Two in one shopping is awesome!

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## NialR35

Okay, for sure I will look into it because I hate when I see a random cricket running in my house. 

As far as night crawlers, I heard African or Canadian are the best ones. Is there anything I need to know before buying these worms?

1) How do I care for them?
2) Do I have to gut load?
3) I heard you need to refrigerate them, but do they escape like crickets do? I  would hate to find a random night crawlers inside my fridge, and my wife would kill me too. 

Just let me know how you guys do this. I think I already had my share of crickets, night crawlers seem slower and clumsy. I just don't want them to escape! Just let me know how you guys do this.

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## Lija

lol, no they are not crickets, you won't be finding them in random places lol
1. you don't
2. no
3. you buy them, they are sold in plastic deli cups with soil. so you stick it in your fridge and take it out when you need them. they won't escape unless you're clumsy yourself and damp them inside your fridge and then will be too lazy to clean up  and pick them up lol

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## NialR35

LOL@ Lija 

Well I was browsing through other posts about night crawlers and some people were saying they are "ninjas" and could escape but I guess for a worm to escape using that tiny hole on the plastic deli cups then they must be really small? 

DAMN! This sounds like too good to be true compared to crickets lol. 

How do they live then if I don't have to feed them and how long do they last? Do I have to change their substrate? water? LOVE?! they don't need anything??!?!  I mean there has to be something bad about this lol. If not, I'm going to walmart RIGHT NOW!  :Frog Smile:  It's just that much simpler than crickets? And the fact that they have a higher nutritional value makes it better!

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## Lija

hm... they sure need some love lol from pacs/pixies they'll get plenty of that  :Smile: 
 they can easily live in fridge for 3-4-6 month if need to, with occasional addition of a new substrate.  so just make sure they are cold and moist . don't leave them in warm environment for longer, they'll die and start to stink. meaning you might want to get a cooler to  transport them from a store if your car a/c is screwed.

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## NialR35

I see, any specific temps they need to be maintained at? My fridge just has a dial that says cool-cooler-coolest. So yea lol...

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## danfrog

Yeah if you leave nightcrawlers out, they will melt. Its a horrible smell.

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## NialR35

Ok...the only challenge is convincing her to let me store them in the fridge! lol. I do have another small room bridge that I barely use but it's pointless to waste electricity just to cool off one small item.

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## danfrog

Do not get these types. They secrete a nasty tasting toxin.

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## Lija

hide them in small compartment, we have one that is not see through lol

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## NialR35

> hide them in small compartment, we have one that is not see through lol


Sounds like you hide yours too, don't you? lol

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## Lija

lol kind of, we have all kind of stuff in our fridge, frozen rodents in all sizes too  :Smile:  but when we have friends over and they want something to grab from a fridge lol so we try to keep it hidden.

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## danfrog

I just threw my nightcrawlers behind the milk without asking or telling the wife. I figured it would be better for her to find them while I was at work.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

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## Lija

way to go lol

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## NialR35

Let me introduce my baby! ( Finally got some good shots) I haven't named him/her yet because I don't know what he is. I wanted to name him Koopa from Super Mario Bros  :Frog Smile:  but any suggestions would be nice!



Ornate, right? Is he going to look like a pancake with two cherries on top when he becomes an adult? All the cranwelli I've seen look like that hahahah. Are ornates pretty much the same?

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## Lija

yep ornate :Smile:  take a lot of pic, it will grow very very fast  :Smile:

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## danfrog

Looks like a bright cucumber.

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## NialR35

> I scald any furniture with really hot tap water that isn't treated then dry the items by wiping them down then s ald with treated tap water and dry completely again. I do not like to use harsh chemicals on any wood or fake plants. There are some natural products out their that can be used, but I've tried some and didn't like them. I use Wipe Out 1 for tank cleaning.


Collen/Jerrod,

Do you also scald the tank with hot untreated water prior to using Wipe Out 1? I was wondering because I don't want my tank to shatter...  :Frog Smile:  The instruction for the furniture are spot on, but for the tank itself prior to using Wipe Out 1, what do you do to it?

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## froggymomma

I have to say that you are 100% right about the help in here! Grifthegreat couldn't have a better name!! They are a godsend and have an advance knowledge of frogs!!! THANK YOU FROM ME ALSO!!

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Collen/Jerrod,
> 
> Do you also scald the tank with hot untreated water prior to using Wipe Out 1? I was wondering because I don't want my tank to shatter...  The instruction for the furniture are spot on, but for the tank itself prior to using Wipe Out 1, what do you do to it?


Yes, I rinse every out as thoroughly as possible first before applying the Wipe Out 1. Be sure not to get the UTH wet. The tank would have to be very cold for the hot water to crack or shatter the glass - which it shouldn't be if the enclosure temps are in the right range.  :Smile: 





> I have to say that you are 100% right about the help in here! Grifthegreat couldn't have a better name!! They are a godsend and have an advance knowledge of frogs!!! THANK YOU FROM ME ALSO!!


You're welcome! We are here to help! The purpose of this forum is to share knowledge, so that is what we strive to do. These are amazing creatures and they deserve the best chance to live long healthy lives. So we do what we can to help them (and their keepers!). We were all rookies at some point. The important thing is to seek knowledge and learn.

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## NialR35

Oh i thought you could remove the UTH before every monthly cleaning? You don't remove it then? I figured doing this will eventually remove the adhesive but I thought I had to detach it from the tank..

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Oh i thought you could remove the UTH before every monthly cleaning? You don't remove it then? I figured doing this will eventually remove the adhesive but I thought I had to detach it from the tank..


No! Once the UTH is in place it is to remain for the duration of its life.

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