# Frogs & Toads > Fire Belly Toads (Bombina) >  Please help. I think it's dropsy. :(

## Rorschach

Hello, all.  My FBT swelled up a few days ago.  This has happened before and gone away, though not to the extent it is now. It's gotten worse and I compare his appearance to a ping pong ball with legs!  I've been feverishly searching the interwebs and read hundreds of pages on it and from what I've found, it sounds like dropsy.  The trouble is, all these sites fail to mention what to do about it, other than take to an exotics vet, which isn't an option for me.  I don't want to just watch him die, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

I picked up some maracyn 2 today, which is for treating dropsy in fish.  I read on one forum that it was used with some success, but I'm looking for more ideas.  I perused all 22 pages of this forum and read that honey might help, so I've just added some of that to his water as well. His energy level seems to be ok, and I believe he has eaten. I've got him in a smaller quarantine tank.  I read that someone actually tried lancing her FBT and draining the fluid from its abdomen, followed by antibiotic baths, which worked.  I fear doing this myself, though, as there was little detail as to how she went about it exactly and it sounds very dangerous.

I've been to 5 different pet stores, checking all the shelves for something that sounded helpful but came up empty.  Despite his bloat, he seems otherwise healthy. That may sound odd, but I mean he looks good, his eyes are not cloudy, he doesn't limp or act lethargic or weak, seems active and seems to be eating.  I just fear his condition will worsen and I'm at a loss for what to do next.

Any suggestions are very welcome.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Hello, all.  My FBT swelled up a few days ago.  This has happened before and gone away, though not to the extent it is now. It's gotten worse and I compare his appearance to a ping pong ball with legs!  I've been feverishly searching the interwebs and read hundreds of pages on it and from what I've found, it sounds like dropsy.  The trouble is, all these sites fail to mention what to do about it, other than take to an exotics vet, which isn't an option for me.  I don't want to just watch him die, so any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> I picked up some maracyn 2 today, which is for treating dropsy in fish.  I read on one forum that it was used with some success, but I'm looking for more ideas.  I perused all 22 pages of this forum and read that honey might help, so I've just added some of that to his water as well. His energy level seems to be ok, and I believe he has eaten. I've got him in a smaller quarantine tank.  I read that someone actually tried lancing her FBT and draining the fluid from its abdomen, followed by antibiotic baths, which worked.  I fear doing this myself, though, as there was little detail as to how she went about it exactly and it sounds very dangerous.
> 
> I've been to 5 different pet stores, checking all the shelves for something that sounded helpful but came up empty.  Despite his bloat, he seems otherwise healthy. That may sound odd, but I mean he looks good, his eyes are not cloudy, he doesn't limp or act lethargic or weak, seems active and seems to be eating.  I just fear his condition will worsen and I'm at a loss for what to do next.
> 
> Any suggestions are very welcome.


Are you certain its dropsy? Dropsy would need a vets attension.

Does the bloat feel like fluid or air? Is it hard or soft?

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## Rorschach

> Are you certain its dropsy? Dropsy would need a vets attension.
> 
> Does the bloat feel like fluid or air? Is it hard or soft?


I'm not a vet, but from all the sites I've read, that's what I'd guess.  I wouldn't say his belly is hard. It feels more like it's full of fluid than air. Firmer than air would be, I think. It's the only FBT I've ever had, so I am completely inexperienced, but I've had him for over a year and a half with no issue.  I got him from a friends sister who no longer wanted him and she didn't have any problems either.  I didn't even know this sort of thing could happen. 

What would a vet do to treat dropsy?  I have a hard time believing there's nothing I can do myself.  I'll call my regular vet in the morning to see if he treats frogs and will do so without breaking my bank.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> I'm not a vet, but from all the sites I've read, that's what I'd guess.  I wouldn't say his belly is hard. It feels more like it's full of fluid than air. Firmer than air would be, I think. It's the only FBT I've ever had, so I am completely inexperienced, but I've had him for over a year and a half with no issue.  I got him from a friends sister who no longer wanted him and she didn't have any problems either.  I 8didn't even know this sort of thing could happen. 
> 
> What would a vet do to treat dropsy?  I have a hard time believing there's nothing I can do myself.  I'll call my regular vet in the morning to see if he treats frogs and will do so without breaking my bank.


A vet could possibly drain the fluid. Something that isn't in your ability to do safely.

I could suggest giving him a shallow bath of de-chlorinated water and Epsom Salt. The mixture should be one teaspoon of Epsom salt per 1 gallon of de-chlorinated water.

What kind of water do you use and do you have a filter and circulation pump in the Toads water source?  Do you regularly make water changes?
I'm not sure if the bath will work for Dropsy.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

If you attemp the Epsom salt bath make sure the water is shallow enough for the frog to sit in comfortably and not havebto swim. Also be sure the water is luke warm. Soak for 20 minutes per day until the bloating is gone.

I would still consult a vet.

I have to go. Have to work early in the morning. Do keep me posted.

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## Rorschach

I use tap water treated with aqua safe for reptiles & amphibians. It's a half land/half water 55 gallon tank, but there's maybe 15 gallons of water in it.  I have a small in-tank filter with a bio-scrubber thing and a waterfall that contains 2 filter cartridges.  I remove/add water periodically and change filters, but obviously not often enough.  I also recently learned that my timer wasn't working and the light had been staying on all the time, which led to a lot of algae growth, which I'm sure didn't help.

His quarantine tank is set up with a rock-bowl that's shallow containing water treated with honey and the maracyn 2.  I will try the epsom bath tomorrow as I, too, have to get to sleep for work in the morning.  I'll also call my vet.   

Thanks very much for responding.  I really appreciate it.  Hope my poor little guy pulls through.

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## FrogFriend

I had an African Dwarf Frog that came down with Dropsey. It's horrible! His entire body swelled up to the point where he looked like he was squinting and his mouth swelled making it difficult to open his mouth to eat. From what I remember he was quite hard feeling, like a balloon blown up with too much air- ready to pop. Everything I had read gave a bad prognosis. I am not a vet either, but if your toad is still eating and active then you are still doing ok. You can check online for Vets in your area and see if any of them do exotics. I chose my vet because she did have exotic knowledge and experience (her parents were vets at the Phoenix Zoo for over 20 yrs). I see her Monday, I will pick her brain- she knows I have FBTs and got excited to hear I had them. But ask your vet if he doesn't do exotics if he knows a vet who does.

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## Rorschach

I called my regular vet this morning and as I suspected, he doesn't see frogs.  There's one exotic vet I've found, but it's expensive and not close, which means I would have to take off work to take him, and I have not been able to do so.  Not to mention the expense in just getting there, plus just an exam is $55, any treatment will be well beyond that, and I'd lose wages by not working for at least half a day.  I simply don't have a couple hundred bucks to spend.  As stated originally, a vet just isn't an option.  

He was still alive this morning but didn't look any less swollen.  He's pretty firm like a full water balloon, as you describe. Did your ADF pull through? Were there things you tried to treat it that worked/didn't work?  

Thanks so much for your input. I'll look forward to hearing what your vet says.

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## FrogFriend

Well, just as you have done,  I isolated him from the rest of the tank because if I remember correctly it can pass to other members of your tank. When we had an infection in one of our fish tanks we emptied the tank, sterilized everything (sat in hot water with white vinegar, once water cooled we took tongs and DIPPED everything into a large pot of boiling water and left everything out to dry) left the fish in the tank and treated with Ick that covers a few different things, and then scrubbed down the tank. You have to be careful what you dip into the hot water, we dipped our gravel hose in there and it messed up the shape of the hose because the plastic is thinner there. Once everything had cooled we reassembled the tank and everyone has been doing great. When I did my search for Dropsy, it was for ADFs. I just did a search now for "care for Dropsy in amphibians" and got this:How to Cure Frog Dropsy | eHow.com I would say give it a shot. If it is Dropsy it's not going to make anything worse. As for my ADF, he died within a couple of days because he couldn't eat. I cut up the food into tiny little pieces and used a chopstick to get it down to Fabi to eat, but like I said, he got to a point where he was so swollen he couldn't even open his mouth. He also got VERY pale and turned from a nice tan/brown color to creamish white. Do you have any pictures of your toad that you can post? That might help for those of us who have seen it. You might also consider searching for images of dropsy in FBT. I hope this helps! I really hope that it isn't Dropsy or that you can do one of these home remedies to help him! Keep us posted!

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## FrogFriend

Another question...what are you feeding your FBTs? Are you putting the supplements on the food? Has his color changed at all? Also, what is at the bottom of your tank? When I first got my FBTs the people I got her from had gravel. Any time my toads leapt for food they also got a mouth full of gravel that they swallowed. I was so concerned about them and whether it was going to kill them or not. I changed the tank right away. A few days later I found pieces of gravel around the tank so I knew that they had gotten passed some how. Maybe your toad has a blockage from food or something in your habitat. Just throwing out ideas, if your toad is still eating and active- like I said, it isn't a rush to the emergency room but it is important to start trying things to help him out.

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## Rorschach

Here is a photo of my poor Rorschach.  He is no better since I added the Maracyn 2 to his water along with some honey last night, but I guess one can't expect immediate results, necessarily.  He is currently in his epsom salts bath.  I do hope there is enough and I few times he looked to be drinking it! I hope that's not dangerous and the poor bugger also has a couple whitish spots that have appeared on his face. I've not tried to wipe it off yet or anything. He is not a fan of being moved around so with giving him the bath, it's one thing at a time.  

I saw the link you posted and actually ordered the metromed just this morning, given its rave reviews. However, I'm concerned as to how to get it in him.  He eats live food, and this being a fish food, I suppose I would have to force feed it to him, which I hate the thought of, but whatever will save him I am willing to try.  What's troublesome is that they only offered one shipping method on the site and I have no way to know when to expect it.  Hope he holds out long enough and I can successfully get him to eat it. 

Regarding what I feed him...always crickets.  I have the calcium powder and an orange Flukers cricket food that I gutload them with.  His habitat (prior to quarantine) was large rock platforms and water.  Nothing small enough he is likely to have digested.  Once he is well again (fingers crossed) I will probably keep him in a smaller tank since obviously I'm not cleaning the 55 gallon take well enough and I feel I can better manage a 10-15 gallon.  Today there are still live crickets in the quarantine tank with him which makes me concerned that he is not eating.  He is still active as he hops furiously while trying to evade me and the bath!  He at least has some fight, I just hope he doesn't use it on me instead of the real threat.

Given his current super-bloat state, I plan to try lancing him tomorrow.  I have a friend who is a RN that is experienced with needles and such who is going to help me.  If she weren't working tonight we would be doing it now.  I am so worried about him and really hope he will make it until I at least can try everything to make him better.  

Thank you for your feedback.  

*Note- Following bath, the whitish spots are gone. Whew!  Glad there's not something else going wrong.  Now if we can just make it through tomorrow when we can try to drain the fluid.

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## FrogFriend

He definitely looks swollen. The white patches that you saw and then they went away were probably salt residue. As for your flake medicine, I would treat it like your calcium supplement. Shake the flakes with the crickets inside so that it gets on the cricket. Then hand feed the cricket to your toad. Make sure you count how many crickets you put into the tank- that will help you know if he's eating. And of course check for left overs floating around or hiding somewhere. Have your friend bring over a Tuberculin syringe or an insulin syringe. These are both very thin needles, the longer the needle the better. i can't remember which one has the longer needle. Find out toad's anatomy for her and realize that with swelling like this- things can be pushed around so she'll want to go in a spot that has less chance of organ shift. Otherwise, his color still looks good- bright green! Good luck! I will still give a heads up when I chat with my vet.

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## Rorschach

Update - We performed the paracentesis today.  As suggested by FrogFriend, we printed off some frog anatomy photos and went in, but not very deepy, slightly left of the center of his lower abdomen with a small, subcutaneous needle.  We drained almost .60 cc's of fluid with the needle, and some was also leaking out of the hole while the needle was in.  We then put some antibiotic ointment on the pinhole, which was very hard to do as his belly is so slippery. I then put him back into his tank.  

He is still quite swollen, but I'm hoping he will get a little better in the next 24 hours. If he his swelling isn't reduced more tomorrow, we will do a second paracentesis to drain off more of the fluid.   I felt it wasn't wise to drain too much at one time.  The liquid that came out was mostly clear, a little cloudy, and there was a tiny bit of blood coming out of the pinhole, but it stopped bleeding right away.  

I feel like he already appears somewhat relieved.  I haven't seen him eat, but I can't find any crickets in the tank, so I'm assuming he ate them.  I hope so!!  Anyway, I plan to do another epsom salt bath tonight, but wanted to give him some time to rest after the procedure first. 

  I'm posting all of this in case someone else encounters the same issue and needs to know how it can be treated.  I know I searched for several hours trying to find sufficient information and it's just not available.  Of course it's too soon to tell if it's successful, but I will continue to update with any new deelopments.  Also, still waiting on the metro-med but I contacted the company and they said it would be here within 3 business days.  I'm hoping for sooner!

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## FrogFriend

0.6 cc is quite a bit for such a small little guy! The cloudiness (which I am sure your RN friend told you) is infection so it's good you put something on it. If you do it tomorrow as well, I would make sure that when you put him back in his Iso tank that there isn't a huge amount of water in his pool/tank (however your set up is- sorry can't remember) because if you put some kind of antibiotic ointment on him and then he gets in water it just will wash off defeating the purpose. Doing the epsom salt bath later I would say is still a good idea and as long as the ointment has a little time to do its job. Also, to avoid the slipperiness tomorrow, have enough water in his tank so he can get fluids/stay hydrated, and keep your basking light on- this will make him a bit drier for you so that he doesn't slide away while trying to drain fluids (or use a white paper towel with no coloring to dab at him to get some moisture off)- plus, it might make the risk of infection from himself (toxins he produces) lower. Again, I am NOT a vet, I do have medical knowledge and I am making assumptions based on what I know about animals, amphibians and humans. I hope the toad anatomy helped. I read someone elses post about lancing fluids from her frog and she went in at a bad spot and now her toad (as of last post) could not move his back legs. Also, as your RN friend will tell you, knicking the bowel will cause all kinds of damage to your little guy! Anyway, I hope what I had to say was helpful and on the right track- always have to take suggestions from nonvets on care of animals with a grain of salt. In fact, I have heard disagreements on how to handle certain medical treatments from vets as well...so, I guess it's do your research and make a decision fitting best with the info received and gut feeling. I hope your little guy does ok! Keep me posted!  :Smile:

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## Rorschach

I thought .6 cc was a lot, too, but I read on another site about someone aspirating an african dwarf frog, which are much smaller, and it said it was acceptable to drain up to .5 cc at a time in severe cases, and I would call this severe.  Abdominal Fluid Aspiration (Paracentesis) of the African Dwarf Frog  I also read the post about the leg lancing, which is why we did the abdomen and made sure to go in above the bowels.  He's not moving much at the moment, but he seems to be doing ok. I'll wait a little longer for the bath and will probably reapply the antibiotic ointment after, just in case.  I'm so afraid to look in there sometimes because I don't want to find him doing worse or dead. I'll definitely keep you posted and thank you, again, for your feedback and information.

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## FrogFriend

I hope your toad is feeling a little better and doing some moving around soon. I am sure he's just pooped from the treatment. Keep us posted!

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## FrogFriend

How is your toad? I talked to my vet today. She said as long as your toad is eating and active, then he's ok. I hope that he's doing ok.

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## Rorschach

Thank you for asking your vet!  He is still active but I'm not 100% sure he is eating.  I put more crickets in this morning and counted them.  I also got the Metromed in the mail yesterday and starting feeding it to the crickets.  Not sure what's in that stuff, but I had it on the dining room table in the sealed bag it came in and my cat went after it, knocking it off the table and chewing a hole in the bag!  The crickets also went after it, so hopefully Rorschach goes after the crickets that ate it!!  We're planning another paracentesis for tomorrow.  My friend that helped me the last time has been working or out of town since, so we haven't had a chance to do it again.  He still looks good, just big.

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## FrogFriend

I am glad he seems to be doing better and still active! I checked what metromed was, on any meds that my pets or I get I go to drugs.com. It is a great site that explains medications, what they are used for, side effects, etc. there is a section for meds that are just pet meds but most animals meds are the same as human meds, just smaller or larger doses depending on the weight of the animal. (Your nurse friend probably knows a lot about this site too!) I checked on what the med was because your cat was interested in it and trying to chew through the bad. What it is is an med for bacterial and fungal infections (and since it's unsure if dropsy is baterial or fungal this is a great option!) It is metronidazole mixed with krill (shrimp base which is probably why your cat was trying to eat through the bag) I have given metronidazole to my kitties (and my foster orphaned baby kittens) when they had a problem with their digestive tract and having a problem with really bad diarrhea. It is a med that tastes HORRIBLE! So it is interesting that the cat and the crickets were going at it! Also, I am not sure how it comes to you- is it a powder, flakes, frozen? You may want to not only gut feed your crickets with it but also get it on their bodies. When the crickets eat it, some will stay in their system and the toad will get it that way, but a lot of it will get digested and move through their system and out before the toad can get the full affect. This is just a suggestion based on what I asked and what I know about medication moving through the body and out. It is probably ok that you haven't been able to do another tapping of his abdomen, gives him time to recover and not be over taxed. Anyway, I am glad you got the med- let me know how it works for you, if it's quite effective, I may order some and have it on hand here. I had read that people noticed a dramatic change within 24 hrs after giving it to their fish with dropsy, so hopefully that will be you too!

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## FrogFriend

How is your toad? Did the antibiotic work?

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## Rorschach

He's still doing ok.  He's definitely eating, which is super!  We did a third paracentesis last night.  He's not getting any bigger, but not losing any of the fluid on his own either.  I've fed the metromed to the crickets to get it to him that way, since he won't eat it, and have seen no change.  Not sure what else to do at this point.  It's been a few weeks and he's still active, eating, and looking pretty good except for the bloat!  We'll just keep slowly draining the fluid once a week or so I suppose.  Maybe since the metromed is being delivered in such tiny doses is why it isnt effective.  I dont know any other way, though. His mouth is so small and fragile I'm really afraid of trying to force feed it and am not going to attempt it.   I've read that it's a very long, slow healing process that takes several weeks or even months, so I'm not too concerned at this point. Thanks for asking.  I'll let you know if there are any major developments.  Hopefully some miracle will occur and this will all be over soon, but for now, he's doing just fine.

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## Rorschach

Hello. Just thought I'd send an update. Rorschach is still doing well a year and a half later with no recurrence of the swelling.  We drained the fluid maybe a half dozen times over several weeks, applied antibiotic ointment to the needle hole, gave a few baths with treated water, and he's been well ever since.  I'm much more mindful of changing his water regularly and keeping his habitat clean as well.  Anyway, just thought I'd put a message up in case someone is having the same problem with their frog and looking for solutions online, like I was.   :Smile:

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## Carlos

Glad your frog survived and is doing well  :Smile:  !

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## XDragonFrogX

So glad to hear he is doing well  :Smile:  thank you for the update

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