# General Topics > Vivarium, Terrarium & Enclosure Discussion >  Substrate for tree frogs

## xxlegislationxx

Hi there,

I have an unbranded tank with 3 red eyed tree frogs using paper towel substrate. I recently got PT2607 Exoterra (18x18x24inches) tank for my milk frogs and would like to use some more aesthetically pleasing substrate such as soil for my milk frog tank only.

As I've never used soil before, when I look up online people use hydro balls and put many layers in between. Can I just use soil and change it regularly (around once per month) without so many complications (no hydro balls etc.)? I WILL NOT be using any real plants.

Also, as my milk frogs are still babies (4 months old) can I use soil or will they by accident digest it? How old should they be until I use soil...

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## acpart

If you don't use the hydroball drainage layer, the soil will get waterlogged and possibly smelly because there will be a fair amount of water due to the misting and (hopefully you have one) shallow water area for them.  The hydroball set-up is really not difficult.  Most hydroponics stores have hydroballs.  Just dump them into the enclosure to a 2-3" depth.  Get some vinyl screening from Home Depot or equivalent, cut to fit and put it on top of the balls.  Then use coco fiber (you can get it in compressed brick form) for several inches on top of that.  If you change your mind and want to go with live plants, pothos and sansevieria work great.  I also put a big piece of wood in there to kind of hold everything together.

Aliza

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## xxlegislationxx

> If you don't use the hydroball drainage layer, the soil will get waterlogged and possibly smelly because there will be a fair amount of water due to the misting and (hopefully you have one) shallow water area for them.  The hydroball set-up is really not difficult.  Most hydroponics stores have hydroballs.  Just dump them into the enclosure to a 2-3" depth.  Get some vinyl screening from Home Depot or equivalent, cut to fit and put it on top of the balls.  Then use coco fiber (you can get it in compressed brick form) for several inches on top of that.  If you change your mind and want to go with live plants, pothos and sansevieria work great.  I also put a big piece of wood in there to kind of hold everything together.
> 
> Aliza


yes, i have a shallow water bowl for them. 

but do i need to wash the hydroballs every once in a while? do i upkeep the substrate by changing the soil only?

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## xxlegislationxx

so is it hydroballs --> carbon filter/ vinyl screening --> soil?

does coco fibre go on top of soil? do i really need coco fibre

thanks a lot, a bit new to this substrate thing (have had my red eyes for over 2 years using paper towels with no problem)

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GermanEdam

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## elly

Yeah, that's about the right order.  You don't need coco fibre on top of the soil and you shouldn't have to take out and wash the hydroballs. The point of the layered kind of setup with plants is that you can just leave it there without cleaning it out for a long long time (unless the frogs get sick.) Live plants planted directly in the soil will help keep it fresh but if you don't want to use live plants, I think the setup will still be okay for a while. 

I don't recommend just putting soil down without hydroballs, like acpart said it would get soggy and smelly, BUT the coco fibre doesn't rot easily so if you just want to put some down on the floor without hydroballs that would work. You'd have to clean it out and replace it periodically though.

Also there's a danger of frogs getting a mouthful of substrate while hunting. A little probably won't hurt them, but a lot could cause constipation.
Some plants can help hold the dirt in place if you're using dirt. I like to put down rocks too large for the frogs to swallow (bigger than their heads) to keep the substrate in place. If you have tough, nonpoisonous leaves those work as groundcover too.

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## acpart

Currently, in addition to the RETF enclosure (those are my only frogs) I have 13 planted enclosures that house various gecko species.  Some of these enclosures have been going for 10-11 years without being cleaned out.  The plants are doing well and the isopods continue to reproduce.  For most of the enclosures I use coco fiber only on top of the hydroballs and mesh.  A few of the enclosures have a small amount of desert sand mixed with the coco fiber.  These bioactive ecosystems have been very successful.

Aliza

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elly, fena74

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