# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  Whites Tree Frog in trouble..Please help!

## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi everyone. My poor little guy needs some help! He started showing some weird signs about a week ago. We went to feed him as normal and he started doing this weird clicking noise and opening and shutting his mouth. I noticed he was shedding at this time and I read somewhere that the clicking could go hand in hand with the shedding and just decided to keep a close eye on him. He hasn't ate in probably a week or more. He just does not seem interested which really started to concern me. I started looking for local vets who look at frogs but held back since it seems a lot of them who said they were "herp vets" did not seem very knowledgeable. Today, we went to try and feed him again and noticed the "green spots of doom" when we picked him up. Hes very very very weak. We soaked him in some warm water and tried to force feed him but hes just too small. He did perk up a tiny bit due to the soaking and started climbing the side of the little hopsital tank. I know the green spots are a bad bad sign so I am going to the vet right at 8'oclock and giving them a shot because I realize I am running out of options. 

Ive seen some posts about this issue and need some quick advice on dosages of the following:

pedialyte soaking or Reptaboost soaking

baytril soaking

and metronidizole soaking

Can you do all of these in a day? I dont want to make him worse trying to help him. If there is any way anyone could give me info on how to prepare these soaks it would be greatly appreciated! Thank you so much! I hope my little guy pulls through for me!  :Frown:

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## Gail

Sorry to hear about your poor little WTF.  What did the Vet say.  Also curious as to how long you've had him and where you got him from.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

We have an appointment at 11:30.. that was their earliest time =(. We had him now for only about 2 months. He was from petco.

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## Gail

I got 3 from Petco 1-31-13, all are sick and being treated for various stongeloids, giarda & mites.  Other members have sick ones from Petco also.  Never again from a pet store.  Hope your little one makes it.  Keep this updated.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

yeah I've seen that! I've gotten them from petco before when I lived in NJ. They lived a REAL long time. I had them most of my childhood and this is the FIRST time I have ever even remotely had to deal with this. I feel so bad. I did try a force feed, but hes still a little guy. I cant get him to open his mouth to even stick a worm or cricket in. Even while he is doing this clicking routine. I did run out to walmart and buy the pedialyte and soaked his little body. Still not much movement from him at all. I get excited even if he just lifts his head. poor guy =(

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## KimW

I just answered your message. Good luck and let me know how it goes or if you need any more info. 
I forgot to say to do the pedialyte soak and give meds at different times. The Baytril gets absorbed through the frogs skin, so you wouldn't want to give him the Baytril, then put him in  the soak. I did soaks in the am and meds pm.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

alright everyone..off to the vet..wish us luck! hopefully he will hand us the baytril we need!

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Alright..well good news was we did find someone very helpful. The vet said it wasn't my fault, and that the frogs from petco are not captive bred =(. They are almost always sick and he treats the ones there. We got the baytril and hes got less than a 50% chance of making it. We gave him his first dose so lets hope! Very nice vet I would recommend him to anyone in Florida. I wanted to thank everyone for the immediate support and the idea about the pedialyte. I wish his chances were better but I will keep you updated!

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## Heather

I'm sorry to hear your little baby is sick  :Frown: . Continue the treatments. Be sure the pedialyte is a 1:10 pedialyte to dechlorinated lukewarm water mixture for soaking. Do you think it would be too hard to syringe feed him a tiny dose of reptaboost? About how big is he?

I hope he pulls through for you! Blessings sent your way.

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## Gail

Don't give up the battle, they are tough little lima beans just waiting for someone to fight for them, and that is you.  Praying your little ones makes it over the hump and on the road to good health.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

He is about the length of a half dollar. he weighed 5 grams today at the vet. So far so good! He pulled through the night and I think he looks slightly better! Hes not sitting with his head down anymore. He is actually sitting up! I wish he would move a little more. He pretty much sat in the same spot all day since we got home from the vet. He did do a little turning..thats about it. I wanted to get your opinions on something..my vet said I could go up to 50/50 on the pedialyte and keep him in for 10 mins a day. does that seem okay? I was thinking about the reptaboost..I would just hate to hurt him trying to get his mouth open. Is it possible that trying with the syringe is easier than trying to force feed him? because we did try that..and even with him opening his mouth he was stubborn and closed it every time he saw that food. How is soaking him in the reptaboost I saw that was an option? is that better than the pedialyte or about the same? Thank you so much for all your support!! Its amazing how attached you get to these little guys!

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## Gail

Happy to hear he made it through the night.  Have you tried different feeders?  Shadrack wouldn't eat the roaches, and not excited about the crickets either, but when I put some wax worms in there he went for that.  Since then he's turned into a little eating machine again.  If you can find butter worms down in FL I would go for that instead, less fat, higher in calcium.

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## Lindsey

> He is about the length of a half dollar. he weighed 5 grams today at the vet. So far so good! He pulled through the night and I think he looks slightly better! Hes not sitting with his head down anymore. He is actually sitting up! I wish he would move a little more. He pretty much sat in the same spot all day since we got home from the vet. He did do a little turning..thats about it. I wanted to get your opinions on something..my vet said I could go up to 50/50 on the pedialyte and keep him in for 10 mins a day. does that seem okay? I was thinking about the reptaboost..I would just hate to hurt him trying to get his mouth open. Is it possible that trying with the syringe is easier than trying to force feed him? because we did try that..and even with him opening his mouth he was stubborn and closed it every time he saw that food. How is soaking him in the reptaboost I saw that was an option? is that better than the pedialyte or about the same? Thank you so much for all your support!! Its amazing how attached you get to these little guys!


Sounds like the frog is doing better!
On the pedialyte baths, I would be very cautious about upping the ratio to 50/50.  I've read of some accounts in which the frog died from having too much pedialyte in the bath...and after all, even in my own experience have had a vet give me (what could have been fatal) advice on an injured red-eye (whole other story).  So needless to say, I only trust vets that have a great reputation and success rate in treating frogs, and that is why I deal with one across the country from where I live.
But...  having said that, I believe the fact that you were able to seek a vet in a matter of only one day, is amazing.  Sometimes we just need the vet in order to get the prescription for the meds, and analyze fecals- and any vet can do that.
I guess my point is, just be super cautious.

As far as the reptiboost, you may have already said this, but how long has it been since the frog ate?  Because it is a juvenile, it's important he eat at least every other day.  If you can catch him shedding, that is an ideal time to drop a dusted cricket in his mouth when he 'yawns,' or drop a bit of the reptiboost.  My frogs all shed about 1/2 hour after lights out.  I've only had to do this once, for two days for one of my frogs. Just be sure to be as quiet as possible when trying to feed this way, and use as little light as possible, you do want to be sneaky otherwise it will disturb their shedding. If you can't catch him in a shed, then force feeding may be necessary.  I personally don't have any experience in that area, but Heather does.  She can offer great advice on how to do that in a way that is least stressful on the frog.

The reptiboost and pedialyte soak is a great way to get nutrients in him, therefore providing him with energy to eventually eat on his own again.
Mix 10 parts warm treated water to one part pedialyte (I do 5 oz water, 0.5 oz pedialyte), then mix a scoop of the rptiboost.  You can soak him in this for about 10 mins or until the water just begins to chill.  While he's soaking, prepare a plain warm water bath.  Put him in the clean water for a few mins to rise.
If you have any spare tupperware like containers with lids, these work great for soaking bathtubs.  Poke holes in the lid, file down the sharp points.  Place soaking solution in dish no deeper than the frog's chin, then the frog (gently), then the lid.  Place in a warm and quiet place.

Goodluck, they are super cute and amazing little creatures  :Smile:  One does get very attached, especially when nursing one back to good health

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## Heather

Hi again. Just got home a bit ago from work.

You have been given great information by Bolisnide, as above.

Do not use a 50/50 pedialyte ratio. That is too concentrated and is no more helpful than the 1/10. Their electrolyte needs are necessary, but are tiny in comparison to a human baby's. the 1/10 or 1:10 is ideal. Too high of a concentration can cause an electrolyte and fluid balance shift. We just want to gently rehydrate and replace any electrolyte losses. 

The goal is to get him strong enough to eat on his own again. We want to minimize as much stress as possible. Force feeding may become necessary but can be extremely stressful for them. Stress can increase their risk for further illnesses. Their skin is very sensitive so we actually want to minimize handling them. Force feeding can cause skin injuries, so we have to be super careful. Remember, the goal is to get them healed, stronger and independent again. Once they are weak and feel sick, they lose their appetites, just like we do. 

How many days has it been since he hasn't eaten now? 

Continue the soaks. Reptaboost is good stuff. Be sure to do a nice follow-up soak to remove any reptaboost residue. You can try the sneaky feeding while shedding. It actually works pretty well. I've used this trick several times. It works easiest if you remove the cricket legs. I also squish the cricket's head before pulling off the legs. It keeps the cricket from biting the frog, and I feel less mean about pulling its legs off. 

I can, and will, teach you to force if necessary. I'm hoping you will not need to.

Please keep us posted. I'll check in again tomorrow.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi all! Thanks for your feedback. I only gave 1 treatment to him with the 50/50 of pedialyte and water, so I will tone it down next time to 1:10 again. I do have a question. His belly looks extremely bloated ssince i started treatment! I don't know if that is a side effect of the baytril/pedialyte? or the infection itself? I hope I didn't give him too much pedialyte following the vet's instruction. Should I be concerned? Other then that he is still doing okay. He is sitting up and sleeping most of the day and night. So glad to see him resting. 

If he is bloated should I skip his pedialyte bath tonight? or does that have nothing to do with it?

It has definitely been about 10 days he has not eaten for sure. It may be one or two days more. 

Thanks!

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## KimW

Heather or Bolisnide,
When I was having to force feed my frog, I bought canned crickets because I hated having to squish heads/pull legs off. I ended up just giving reptaboost orally with a syringe and not using the canned crickets, but would that be an acceptable option? Just curious.

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## Heather

Skip the pedialyte for tonight. You can do a regular lukewarm dechlorinated water soak. Add a drop of plain honey into the water, then after 10 minutes have another just lukewarm water bath ready to soak for  just a few minutes to rinse off the honey residue. Just do about 10 minutes. Have you seen him shed at all? 

Canned crickets are fine, but they are dry/dehydrated to keep them fresh. It would work, but I prefer fresh.

Does he try to go towards the crickets at all?

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Ok will do! We are going to buy some fresh crickets tomorrow to see if he will make an attempt for us before we try the force feed. We did not place any in his hospital tank. The last time we tried to get him to eat, right before we started treatment, he was kicking them away. I think I bought the most annoying crickets in the world because they kept torturing him, crawling on him, and stressing him out. He kept trying to climb the sides of the tank to avoid them and he would just fall. Therefore, we decided to give him a day without the crickets since he made no attempt. At this point, they all ate each other so we need new ones lol. 

He was having incomplete sheds before we started treatment. We got all that off in the soaks. Haven't seen him shedding since. I'd be willing to bet he's shedding but we haven't caught him doing so. We keep in him a warm room with not a lot of traffic in it so he doesn't get stressed.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Right after I posted this I went to check on him..and I see some skin by his mouth so yes he is shedding. =)!!

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## Heather

Try pulling off the two large legs of a cricket and place it a few inches away from him. How long would you guess he is snout (nose) to vent (anus)?

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## xXxHeavenxXx

between an 1.5 and 2 inches

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi everyone! My little guy is still doing well! He just took his 5th baytril treatment! Getting some crickets to see if hell attempt to eat for us! crossing fingers!

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## Heather

Glad to hear! I hope he eats for you tonight. Perhaps pull one leg off to make them easy to catch. Crossing fingers here too!

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## Gail

:Big Applause: 


> Hi everyone! My little guy is still doing well! He just took his 5th baytril treatment! Getting some crickets to see if hell attempt to eat for us! crossing fingers!

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## Lynn

Looking forward to hearing about how things go tonight !
 :Butterfly:

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## xXxHeavenxXx

We put the crickets in a separate tank and lowered him in..he did nothing so we got a pair of tongs. Our vet suggested we kill the cricket first by smashing its head. He started opening his mouth for us and we got a real small one in  :Frog Smile: !! We tried to get a second one but he wasn't being as cooperative. We will try again a little later. He still doesn't look like hes shedding as well as he should, but there are no more green spots and hes turning his beautiful vibrant green.

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## Lynn

> We put the crickets in a separate tank and lowered him in..he did nothing so we got a pair of tongs. Our vet suggested we kill the cricket first by smashing its head. He started opening his mouth for us and we got a real small one in !! We tried to get a second one but he wasn't being as cooperative. We will try again a little later. He still doesn't look like hes shedding as well as he should, but there are no more green spots and hes turning his beautiful vibrant green.


That's super.  _No supper ! _  

You could try putting a bunch in; the movement will get him into the hunting mood. ( count them ) ---turn the lights out ----maybe he'll eat more ! One is good, though !!!! 

You're doing it !!! Good to hear !
 :Butterfly:

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## Heather

Great job!  :Smile:

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi everyone..we are now on our 7th treatment..he seems stable..but his HUGE belly is concerning me! He's sooooo bloated. Is that the infection? He is still holding his mouth open slightly but the clicking seems to be calming down a bit. The good news is..hes turning back to his bright and beautiful green!

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## Lynn

lets' review the soaks his is getting ?

and

have you seen a poop ?

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## xXxHeavenxXx

no poop yet and since we've been force feeding we havent done anything but a warm water soak. We did do 1 pedialyte soak 1:10 and another 50/50. He hasn't had one since then. Thinking about one tonight since he wont eat for us today.

also..anyone have a nice and easy way to force feed a very small frog such as ours? We've tried the credit card, and a thin credit card (like a blockbuster card). Since he has done less clicking which is a good thing..he wont open his mouth for us anymore =/ I keep hoping he attacks one..but no such luck. He mainly just sleeps. maybe im not being forceful enough but I dont want to hurt him and he manages to wiggle away everytime..we tried for a half hour before I finally said lets just put him back because I don't want to do more harm than good.  :Frown:

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## Heather

Okay...

How many force feelings has he had now? When was his last poop?

Avoid the 50/50 soaks, it's too concentrated for the little peanut. It should be 1/10 pedialyte to water only. Tonight, do a lukewarm dechlorinated tap water OR lukewarm spring water soak WITH a drop of honey in it. No pedialyte. We need to dilute the pedialyte concentration from last night. Too high of a concentration is tough on their tiny kidneys. The honey will give him a bit of sugar and may help him to poop. Then follow with a plain lukewarm dechlor or spring water soak with no honey to rinse him off. Do not feed tonight if he is bloated. Let's see if we can get him to poop.

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## Lynn

> Okay...
> 
> How many force feelings has he had now? When was his last poop?
> 
> Avoid the 50/50 soaks, it's too concentrated for the little peanut. It should be 1/10 pedialyte to water only. Tonight, do a lukewarm dechlorinated tap water OR lukewarm spring water soak WITH a drop of honey in it. No pedialyte. We need to dilute the pedialyte concentration from last night. Too high of a concentration is tough on their tiny kidneys. The honey will give him a bit of sugar and may help him to poop. Then follow with a plain lukewarm dechlor or spring water soak with no honey to rinse him off. Do not feed tonight if he is bloated. Let's see if we can get him to poop.


Hi  xXxHeavenxXx,  ( sorry I don't know your name) 
It's really important to follow Heath's instruction here* regarding the soaks*.
This can take quite some time. You are doing a great job! 

He ate a cricket the day before yesterday - right? If so I would hold off on force feeding. 
Give him a chance to hunt on his own. 

I have some force feeding suggestions here. I don't like using a credit care. 
I use a cupcake spatula. Nice and soft!  ( bed-bath-beyond?) Or better-yet - read about my alternate force feeding method. 

http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-supplies.html

Lynn

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## xXxHeavenxXx

ok definitely! I thought I should worry about force feeding every day. Ugh I just want him to be better already! I will do the soaks as suggested from now on. today he seems to be turning a lot. when we come in the room hes been facing all different directions. perhaps hes getting some energy back! I put the last live cricket in to his hospital tank to see if he will eat on his own. We will get some more in there tomorrow since we killed the others trying to force feed.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

UPDATE: still not eating but he is moving a bit more. We found him at 8 am actually stuck to the side of his hospital tank. Not far up at all I think even his back legs were still touching the bottom but its been the most hes moved. Then later on, we believe he pooped out the cricket we gave him a couple days ago. Its not very big in fact, if we didnt have white paper towels down we wouldnt have noticed. Its only a little bigger then a dot you would make with a pen. It was a very small cricket. It does seem like it went through him though.

We have two crickets in there with him running around. I hope one disappears! About how long should I wait to try a force feed again if I have to?

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## Gail

Lisa, good to hear he's moving around. But about the "white" paper towel you're using.  I would change to the unbleached kind so he's not absorbing anything toxic into this little body.

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## Heather

Hi Lisa! Any luck with him eating last night? Did you try any reptaboost orally? It may be time to force feed if he hasn't eaten yet. How is his belly, still bloated or decreasing? How is his breathing today?

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## xXxHeavenxXx

> Hi Lisa! Any luck with him eating last night? Did you try any reptaboost orally? It may be time to force feed if he hasn't eaten yet. How is his belly, still bloated or decreasing? How is his breathing today?


Hi! No luck yet =( We've been hunting down reptiboost for days now..would you believe that petco and petsmart have pulled it off their shelves for their own animals? Thats what they told me after asking for a week!! He looks better as far as being bloaty. Now he just looks skinny =(. We've been conflicted on the breathing. Some days he is better than others. He still clicks and opens his mouth, some days he does it more than others. Those are the days we are trying to stick a cricket in. Today hes not looking as good. He's sleeping with his head down. He is still moving around however because when we go in there hes always in a slightly different spot and direction. 

We have tried pet supermarket as well for the reptiboost. No luck. Petsmart said they get a shipment on tuesday which may or may not include the reptiboost. We are going to start traveling to find it because I really want him to get some. I think sticking the syringe in his mouth would be easier than the cricket. He gives us a 1 second chance. Going to give him a pedialyte bath tonight to see if it perks him up.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

oh and good tip on the paper towels! We stole a whole bunch of the brown ones from the store bathroom lol.

I took some pics for you while he was taking his dip =) so you can all see the little guy your helping.

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## Gail

Have you tried wax worms??  Shadrack was real thin and I feed him several during the week.  They don't move fast, but enough that it got his attention.  These are high in fat content and maybe will help put a little more weight on him during his recovery.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

> Have you tried wax worms??  Shadrack was real thin and I feed him several during the week.  They don't move fast, but enough that it got his attention.  These are high in fat content and maybe will help put a little more weight on him during his recovery.


are the wax worms the ones that bite? I could try something like that though I'd be afraid to leave them in there with him since he just sits around the bottom and hasnt really climbed up high yet. We used to give him mealworms in a bowl once in a while, but he never took them out of our fingers or tongs like our cuban tree frogs do.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

This morning he looks good! I think the pedialyte does him wonders! Looks nice and alert so we keep dancing the cricket in front of him..still nothing. I hope he will attack that thing today sometime.

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## Gail

I guess anything can bite, but I've never had a problem with them.  I've used wax worms for years. 


> are the wax worms the ones that bite? I could try something like that though I'd be afraid to leave them in there with him since he just sits around the bottom and hasnt really climbed up high yet. We used to give him mealworms in a bowl once in a while, but he never took them out of our fingers or tongs like our cuban tree frogs do.

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## silivrentoliel

Just reading this as I have a little guy from Petco having issues too... the green spots you referred too... do you have any pix? I'm picking up all kinds of info here  :Big Grin:

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## Michelle A

> Just reading this as I have a little guy from Petco having issues too... the green spots you referred too... do you have any pix? I'm picking up all kinds of info here


Not Lisa's frog, but one of my sick ones.  These are the spots on George, not sure if it would be the same issue.

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## silivrentoliel

holy cow... i don't mean to hijack the thread.. here mine was not too terribly long ago...

is that the same kinda green spots?

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## xXxHeavenxXx

> holy cow... i don't mean to hijack the thread.. here mine was not too terribly long ago...
> 
> is that the same kinda green spots?



thats what mine looked like..spots alll over ours were slightly bigger. thats when i took him to the vet for sure

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## Heather

> holy cow... i don't mean to hijack the thread.. here mine was not too terribly long ago...
> 
> is that the same kinda green spots?


Silivrentoliel, your baby needs treated too.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi all..Just curious, but when should all of his signs of him being sick actually go away? Im getting kind of nervous. We took him to the vet a week ago now, and while everything has gotten better, its not completely gone. I still hear clicking when I pick him up and put him down. I kind of thought it would be like a human, you know, the "cough" goes away but you still have to treat for another week. 
I'm just getting anxious I think lol. Still wont attack that cricket! GRRR!

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## silivrentoliel

I took mine to the vet (I started another thread so as to not hijack this one) but he's more clueless than I am, and I live in the middle of nowhere (ok, that's a lie, but I'm in a backwoods/rural town)... so I'm kinda winging it... the spots are gone tho... that picture is at least a few weeks old.

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## Heather

Lisa, you'll have to force feed. Pull the head and legs off the cricket. Lightly dust with calcium with vitamin D 3 powder. Pick your baby up with a paper towel moistened with lukewarm dechlorinated water and gently wrap the towel around him like a swaddle, but not tightly. Very carefully open his mouth with a soft baby spoon or carefully with your pointer finger nail (with nonpowdered gloves on). Do not cut him. As he opens his/her mouth, slide the corner of a qtip into the side of his mouth to keep it open just enough to put the cricket in. Carefully put the cricket into his mouth. Do not choke him...put it in a bit so he feels it on his tongue, and try to hold it in a second or two so he does not push it back out. A cut piece of worm would work great also.

He needs some food and he really needs the calcium with vitamin D3. We need to get some nutrition into him and we need to prevent MBD. 

Give it a try and see what you can do. Just be calm and patient. It works best if someone can hand you the qtip and food. 

Great job so far!

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## Heather

> Hi all..Just curious, but when should all of his signs of him being sick actually go away? Im getting kind of nervous. We took him to the vet a week ago now, and while everything has gotten better, its not completely gone. I still hear clicking when I pick him up and put him down. I kind of thought it would be like a human, you know, the "cough" goes away but you still have to treat for another week. 
> I'm just getting anxious I think lol. Still wont attack that cricket! GRRR!


I think he may be clicking as a defense. The spots take about 2 to 6 weeks to go away.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

> I think he may be clicking as a defense. The spots take about 2 to 6 weeks to go away.


really? Our spots are all gone. its just the clicking I am upset about..so that may be nothing at all?

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## xXxHeavenxXx

I will try again with the force feeding. We have the powder and everything so we will kill that last cricket in his cage and try that one. I feel like such a failure that I cant get his mouth open. trying to give it to him in between the clicking is not working. We have not tried a baby spoon or my nail so maybe that will work. We will go out to walmart to get those things shortly.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

my nail seemed to work. I can get it open, but I cant get the qtip in. We can probably get the tiny crickets in his mouth this way. the one cricket we had left was a little too big. I couldnt get his mouth open big enough without my finger sliding out of his mouth. Going to try again tomorrow with a new small batch. Wish me luck!

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## Heather

Good idea. Get some nice small ones. I am at work today 07:00 til about 20:00 (8pm). It is 05:00 here now. I have to get ready for work. I'll check back tonight. Good luck! I'm crossing my fingers for you!

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## Lynn

Hi Lisa,
How are things going this morning ?

There are instructions here for force feeding:
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-supplies.html

Let us know ! Sorry, this little guy is giving you such a tough time. Her has perseverance  :Smile: 

Lynn

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Go out and buy some Fluker's Repta Boost. You can feed him this supplement for malnourished insectavore/carnavores. It comes with a syringe and instuctions for dosing. It may be easier for you to give to him if you are having trouble keeping his mouth open. You can mix some Calcium D3 powder in with the dose for your frog.

Good luck!

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi is anyone on right now?  

Need help! Hes actually attacking the crickets by himself he caught one...but hes not swallowing it! Its in his mouth as he is going after more crickets?? Any idea why he wont swallow the crickets??

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## xXxHeavenxXx

> Hi is anyone on right now?  
> 
> Need help! Hes actually attacking the crickets by himself he caught one...but hes not swallowing it! Its in his mouth as he is going after more crickets?? Any idea why he wont swallow the crickets??


ITS DOWN!!!
HE DID IT!!! ALL BY HIMSELF!!!! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so happy I'm crying! lol I had everything all ready to go and I told my boyfriend powder em up and give him a chance so we dumped a BUNCH in. We got about 10 this time. And he started lunging toward them and its like his tounge isnt sticky anymore. They kept getting away so we took some back legs off and BAM! He caught one! He didnt swallow it right away..and started attacking other crickets and we were afraid it was going to fall out of his mouth like we watched a couple of times. Then he finally did his froggy stretches and got it down!! Hes still hunting. one was definitely not enough but he keeps missing. Moving around the tank like a champ tho! Hopping, walking toward em..ugh I am so happy!!

Ive never seen him miss sooo much..I hope it will come back to him as he gets more! He definitely wants more!

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## xXxHeavenxXx

he's catching them..but then spits em out! still only 1 so far..poor guys trying realllllllly hard

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## xXxHeavenxXx

two down!!  :Frog Smile:

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Just to be sure..I have the zoo-med repti calcium with D3..that brand is ok right?

was wondering if it had anything to do with why he is spitting them out lol

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## Gail

WHOOOHOOOOO!  :Big Grin:  Awesome to hear he's hunting and eating. If the feeders have a heavy dusting on them Shadrack will spit them out also.  I've found that he'll eat much more if they are lighty dusted.  But TWO is a great start.  You've been up all night watching him, haven't you.

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## Heather

YAY!!!!! Congratulations!  :Smile:   :Smile:   :Smile:  

I was thinking the same thing...you've been up all night, I can see.

Keep up the good work. Continue to dust his crickets with calcium for a few days in a row before switching to every other day. Feed him every day. Try the reptivite on his crickets in about 2 days. His coordination will improve as he gets the calcium and vitamins and he starts to get his energy back. The protein in his food will beef him back up slowly (put muscle and weight back on him). Remove any uneaten crickets every morning.

Great job!!!!  :Smile:

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## xXxHeavenxXx

> YAY!!!!! Congratulations!    
> 
> I was thinking the same thing...you've been up all night, I can see.
> 
> Keep up the good work. Continue to dust his crickets with calcium for a few days in a row before switching to every other day. Feed him every day. Try the reptivite on his crickets in about 2 days. His coordination will improve as he gets the calcium and vitamins and he starts to get his energy back. The protein in his food will beef him back up slowly (put muscle and weight back on him). Remove any uneaten crickets every morning.
> 
> Great job!!!!


haha guilty! I couldnt help myself but to sit there for hours chasing the crickets toward him so he can try and try..I got so excited when he first started and then I realized he was having a real hard time. Then I really got excited when he caught one but I didnt see the usual "swallow". I then watched as if he said "haha just kidding" and took the darn thing right out of his mouth. All my excitement drained and I was like "UGH WHY CANT YOU EVER MAKE THIS EASY ON ME". Then finally after 3 fake outs he finally put one in and swallowed..then some more fake outs and then another one swallowed lol. We tried for more and he was going after more and caught a 3rd about 5 times but he just spat it back at me. By this point hed prolly caught every cricket so there wasnt much left as far as calcium since it all came off in his mouth which I assume is fine. I gave up at that point and let him try by himself for the night while I went to sleep.

As far as reptivite thats different from regular calcium right? I always used calcium with the d3 but never reptivite..Ill pick it up though if he needs it and it will help him. Is there a specific brand I should buy?

Oh and is this zoo-med repti calcium with d3 okay? I saw somewhere that there was a "better" brand. Or does it not really matter which brand you use?

Thanks everyone! sooo much!! I hope its only going to get easier from here on out lol..

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## Heather

> haha guilty! I couldnt help myself but to sit there for hours chasing the crickets toward him so he can try and try..I got so excited when he first started and then I realized he was having a real hard time. Then I really got excited when he caught one but I didnt see the usual "swallow". I then watched as if he said "haha just kidding" and took the darn thing right out of his mouth. All my excitement drained and I was like "UGH WHY CANT YOU EVER MAKE THIS EASY ON ME". Then finally after 3 fake outs he finally put one in and swallowed..then some more fake outs and then another one swallowed lol. We tried for more and he was going after more and caught a 3rd about 5 times but he just spat it back at me. By this point hed prolly caught every cricket so there wasnt much left as far as calcium since it all came off in his mouth which I assume is fine. I gave up at that point and let him try by himself for the night while I went to sleep.
> 
> As far as reptivite thats different from regular calcium right? I always used calcium with the d3 but never reptivite..Ill pick it up though if he needs it and it will help him. Is there a specific brand I should buy?
> 
> Oh and is this zoo-med repti calcium with d3 okay? I saw somewhere that there was a "better" brand. Or does it not really matter which brand you use?
> 
> Thanks everyone! sooo much!! I hope its only going to get easier from here on out lol..


It sure takes a lot of patience. This is a good start. He may have good days and bad. At least he's hungry and has some energy to chase them. Are his movements smooth? How are his back legs? 

I have never used the zoo med calcium, but so long as it had the vitamin D 3, it should be okay. 

Reptivite is a powdered multivitamin for them. It has other nutrients and some trace minerals they need. They only need it one day a week, lightly dusted on one cricket, since he is small. 

You're welcome  :Smile: . It's not easy caring for them when they become sick. You're doing a good job!

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi everyone.

He didnt wanna eat for us yesterday. We are going to try again tonight. I had a question..Should we still do pedialyte soaks if he is eating for us? or say like yesterday he didnt eat..should we do one then?

Thanks!

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## Pactolus

Has he pooped at all in the past few days?

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## Lynn

> Hi everyone.
> 
> He didnt wanna eat for us yesterday. We are going to try again tonight. I had a question..Should we still do pedialyte soaks if he is eating for us? or say like yesterday he didnt eat..should we do one then?
> 
> Thanks!


Hi Lisa 
If he is soaking on his own.... in his dish ( de-chloranted water) and eating you can hold off.
Less handling and fussing with him will help also
Keep an eye on him, of course. Give it another night or two?
Cover three sides of his tank - and keep things nice and quiet   :Smile: 
I'm glad to hear he is pulling through this !

Lynn

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## xXxHeavenxXx

> Hi Lisa 
> If he is soaking on his own.... in his dish ( de-chloranted water) and eating you can hold off.
> Less handling and fussing with him will help also
> Keep an eye on him, of course. Give it another night or two?
> Cover three sides of his tank - and keep things nice and quiet  
> I'm glad to hear he is pulling through this !
> 
> Lynn



I am quite sure he is not soaking. We have never caught him doing so when we check on him throughout the day and night.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

oh and no poop yet..still waiting on that.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

2 more crickets eaten today after another pedialyte soak!! =) yay!

seems like that gives him the energy..may be a coincidence, but last two nights I gave him a regular soak and he wouldnt eat. Today pedialyte and then he starts attacking.

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## Heather

Yay!!!  :Smile:

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## Will

Glad to see that things seem to be getting better and better.  Your doing a good job, keep it up!

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## xXxHeavenxXx

so for the first time since my frog has been sick this morning..my frog actually took it upon himself to take a dip in his water-dish!! yayy!! I was sooo surprised to see him sittting in there with the water!!

still no poop...he first ate Sunday..then ate for us again on Wednesday..should I be concerned about poop yet? or is it going to take a bit to get back to normal?

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## Lynn

> so for the first time since my frog has been sick this morning..my frog actually took it upon himself to take a dip in his water-dish!! yayy!! I was sooo surprised to see him sittting in there with the water!!
> 
> still no poop...he first ate Sunday..then ate for us again on Wednesday..should I be concerned about poop yet? or is it going to take a bit to get back to normal?



Super! He'll poop !
Did you ever think you could get this excited about frog poop !  :Big Grin: 

Hopefully we will get a formal announcement as to when  this major event ,finally, takes place. 

 :Butterfly:

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## KimW

I remember it taking a while after my frog was ill and anorexic, for his system to get moving, and for him to go once he began eating again. I wish I could be more specific about how long it took, but I don't recall exactly. I do know I was anxiously waiting as you are, and very glad when he did.  It was definitly several days, I want to say even close to a week.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

two more crickets gone today =) 

Its two weeks to the day now..He is moving around and seems worlds better..I still see signs of the infection though and thats a little scary. He still does the clicking when hes walking on my hands or chasing the crickets. I also catch him sometimes with his mouth slightly open. Not open where you can see into his mouth..but just slightly open where you can see the pink of the inside of his mouth. Not nearly as open as when we first took him. and not all the time..just on a very slight occasion.  Could there still be something wrong?

Since he hadnt ate in a long time I did not get a poop sample to the vet when we took him. once he does go..should I get that looked at to make sure nothing else is wrong?

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## Lynn

I would continue to feed him daily until he is completely recovered.
So, glad to hear he is better !

Review:
-the clicking - I agree - it could have very well have been a defense mechanism
-the sagging mouth could very well be a calcium deficiency, of which takes time to correct 

Keep dusting !  :Smile:  You have done a really great job! You have saved him !

You have been through a lot with him. I would do a fecal, the last thing you want is some 'opportunistic' parasite in his belly.
 When they are _stressed_ the likelihood of a parasitic infection is greater.

Lynn

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Heatheranne

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## Gail

Poor little thing........and like Lynn said, "You have saved him"  And you can NEVER go wrong with getting a fecal done.  Hang in there, looks like the light at the end of the tunnel is just about there.

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## Heather

Great job! Keep up the good work. It sounds like he is on the mend  :Smile: .

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi everyone..I need help ASAP! We went to feed him tonight..did everything we normally do..pedialyte and then a feeding..and he threw up a cricket he ate the last time! Is this a bad sign? First time ive ever seen a frog throw up  :Frown:

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## xXxHeavenxXx

still no poop either..and its been a week and a day since he started eating steadily. I hope hes alright? is it possible I overfed him? maybe that last cricket didnt go down all the way? =(

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## Heather

Try feeding the reptaboost. It comes with a small syringe. Go slowly and let him swallow a few drops at a time.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

okay. He seemed hungry today so I helped him eat a cricket and then he went back to sleep. Hopefully this one stays down! I wish he would poop! lol

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## xXxHeavenxXx

I will check petsmart and petco for the reptaboost again tomorrow.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi everyone. Today it looks sorta grim. The last few days were pretty good. He was dipping and eating for me. He did throw up 2 more crickets. Not too sure why he still hasnt pooped to our knowledge. We don't see much around the tank that we cant otherwise dismiss as skin or cricket skin. Today though he looks like hes getting his green spots back  :Frown:  I dont know why that could be. I only see one really small spot. Hes shedding tonight but I still want to try and get him to eat. I will let you guys know how he is tomorrow.

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## Heather

Can you try the reptaboost?

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi again! we did locate the reptaboost.. I have not used it yet since he was still eating. The green spots we saw went away so I guess it was not what I thought. I am thinking at this point something else is wrong. He has not pooped in weeks now. Not really sure why since he did eat and he does not throw up everything. So where is the rest of it going? I cant figure out how/why hes not going to the bathroom. Unless hes going so tiny that we've been mistaking them as cricket parts we have not seen a thing. Any thoughts? Should we give him the reptaboost? I hate to pry his mouth open when hes eating for me..but if it will give him something that the crickets aren't and help him go to the bathroom then I will. I just didnt want to stress him out. He has been off the baytril now for a few days..I still see that hes not shedding properly..and the last few days we went to feed him hes been shedding so he didn't want to eat. Its kind of weird..he does a lot of the swallowing type movement and arching his back with his eyes shut..but he doesnt try to move the skin or open his mouth wide to get it in. When we see this we get a bath ready for him. I just cant figure it out at this point. Would some other problem cause him to not go to the bathroom? I cant imagine that its impaction since I have always fed him in a small separate tank with no bark, dirt or substrate just bare.

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## Gail

Have you tried nightcrawlers? You could cut them into smaller pieces.  Since they are soft bodied and very moist it might help move things along, I know it does in my Garter snakes.

Also if he's eating well and feeds from tongs or fingers get a syringe & needle from your Vet, inject the meds into the feeder bug and just feed the bug.  I did this with my 3 WTF and it worked out great.

I know how frustrating it can be and I almost gave up, but I'm so glad I didn't.

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Heatheranne

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## Heather

You don't need the reptaboost if he is eating. If he doesn't eat for you on the days of shedding, you can put the cricket or night crawler piece in his mouth when he opens wide. Night crawlers are softer, easier to digest, and more nutritious than crickets, so they are a great choice if he'll take them. Odd that you see no poo if he's eating. How often is he taking food for you?

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hmm good idea on the night crawlers. I was curious if they move at all in front of him if I cut them up. I can't get him to take anything from the tongs unfortunately =( I have tried a ton of times since he doesnt have all of his energy and misses quite a bit. He wont eat the cricket unless its moving and running towards him no matter how much we try to talk some sense into him lol (yes ive even tried talking sense into him while hes trying to eat!) I dont get why he wont let us make it easy for him. I have to sit there while he eats and chase the crickets toward him so he has a fighting chance. If I just leave them in with him..he wont eat them by himself. He was eating very steadily with us for a week. He ate about 2 every other day or every other 2 days, but then he started throwing them back up. The first 3 or so feedings I want to say he kept all the crickets down. We did not notice anything being thrown up. He then on about the 4th feeding threw up only 1 cricket when he ate two. And then the 5th feeding he threw up both of them. I thought that perhaps it may have been the baytril. Our vet had suggested we give it to him an extra week when we called him since he still seemed a little bloated and not pooping. He said it shouldnt hurt him. When he started going into overtime with the baytril was when we noticed the throwing up. Therefore, we made the executive decision and said okay lets stop the baytril since he already had an extra few days on it. At this point he hasnt eaten in about 4 days which is a little long for him. We tried last night but he made no attempt. We will be trying again tonight. this is the first time hes went this long, but im not overly concerned yet since like I said he was shedding which makes him uninterested. 

When I say he is shedding, I notice the skin hanging off him. He doesnt seem to be shedding properly. He swallows hard, arches his back, and sucks in his sides but makes no attempt to open wide and eat the skin as usual. He seems to try and "wipe it off" his face instead of wiping it into his mouth. He does not open his mouth at all. If it makes any sense at all, it seems like it bogs him down for a while. Even if we wait a few hours and come back..the skin is still there..and hes still either sleeping or very stressed and unfocused. 

That pretty much brings you up to speed about where we are. sometimes hes energetic other times not so much. He does soak for us now if his paper towels dry up on him, but we try to keep on top of that. We havent given him any pedialyte for a while though if he doesnt eat tonight we may try a pedialyte dip to give him some energy. No noticeably sized poop that we can definitely say thats what it is. And some vomiting of crickets =(. I hate to see something bad happen NOW that we've been through everything and it seemed positive. I just don't know why he wont go for us. I feel like if I could just get him to do that for me..we'd be in the zone! I mean..if hes not going..and his tummy is full..no wonder hes throwing up! Let me know about those night crawlers! or some kind of froggy laxative lol..some kind of dip? more honey? ugh so frustrating to have him doing so well with the eating..and now something else! Hes been in that hospital tank for at least 3 weeks now..and no poop. 

Thanks guys!

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Here are some pictures I just took when I checked up on him..and he has these on and off spots again! Not his normal color either he is normally a beautiful green. I also took a picture of his bloaty belly he gets since he has that today too. Let me know what you guys think

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## Heather

Try the warm honey soak again. See if you can get him to poop.

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## Gail

The night crawlers will move around lot once you cut them.  I use a very sharp scissors to cut them with.  Also you want to use Canadian night crawlers, the red wrigglers a.k.a. trout worms have a nasty smell/taste to them and might be rejected by the frog.  I get my worms from Wal-Mart. Also I would switch to natural unbleached paper towel.

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## Heather

If you give the worm pieces a little nudge with some tongs or a spoon, they should wiggle. Feed right after cutting them and the piece will wiggle a bunch.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

> If you give the worm pieces a little nudge with some tongs or a spoon, they should wiggle. Feed right after cutting them and the piece will wiggle a bunch.


just took him out to the table =/ he threw up some yellow liquid =( I dont know what to think.

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## Gail

THAT does not sound good, yellow usually means stomach bile, poor little man.  Wish I could help you with this, but I don't have the knowledge or expierience with this.  I'm just a sympathetic reader.  :Frown:

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## Lynn

Hi Lisa,
I read your entire post  # 93.

A pedi or honey dip will not hurt him.
This little guy is a fighter! 

_He was eating very steadily with us for a week. He ate about 2 every other day or every other 2 days, but then he started throwing them back up. Our vet had suggested we give it to him an extra week when we called him since he still seemed a little bloated and not pooping. He said it shouldnt hurt him. When he started going into overtime with the baytril was when we noticed the throwing up.
_

His symptoms of anorexia and regurgitation( vomiting)  need to be discussed with your vet. I would resume the baytril ( as recommended) , or call the vet on Monday. He is not throwing up because he is full. The vomiting is an important symptom to talk to the vet about as it could be a symptom of other or _another_ parasite(s)? 

_Hes been in that hospital tank for at least 3 weeks now......and no poop_ 
This could be because he is not eating and / or not digesting his food? 

What other antibiotic treatment was given besides baytirl? 

Lynn

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## Heather

> just took him out to the table =/ he threw up some yellow liquid =( I dont know what to think.


Let his stomach rest today. Give him a pedi/honey soak for the electrolytes. (Follow with a brief regular lukewarm soak to rinse the honey off.) When was the last time he are and didn't throw it up? 

Lynn is right. You'll need to get a hold of the vet Monday morning. He's a tough one, but you'll need further vet assistance.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

> Hi Lisa,
> I read your entire post  # 93.
> 
> A pedi or honey dip will not hurt him.
> This little guy is a fighter! 
> 
> _He was eating very steadily with us for a week. He ate about 2 every other day or every other 2 days, but then he started throwing them back up. Our vet had suggested we give it to him an extra week when we called him since he still seemed a little bloated and not pooping. He said it shouldnt hurt him. When he started going into overtime with the baytril was when we noticed the throwing up.
> _
> 
> ...


He was not given anything other than the baytril. the vet was hoping to get a fecal after the initial bacterial infection was over. I will call the vet again. I am starting to think perhaps he doesnt know whats wrong with my little guy =/ We did resume the baytril for most of that week and only stopped a 2 days short (when we got scared) so he nearly had an extra full week of the baytril as prescribed making a total of 2 weeks and 5 days on the baytril. The only reason we decided to stop was because we thought maybe that was why he was throwing up. Anyone know from any other threads what would cause the vomiting? Is it definitely a parasite because then I feel bad we did not press for the medication for that. He mentioned he may have a parasite but he wanted us to get a fecal sample before we just start putting him on other medications. Unfortunately..it doesnt look like we are going to be able to get a fecal from him =( I feel like I am at a standstill.

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## Lynn

Hi Lisa,
I'm so sorry you are having so much trouble with this poor little guy  :Frown:  You're a trooper!

I believe the vet may treat him for parasites without a fecal ? 
I can understand why the vet suggested to keep going , perhaps thinking a few more days may make that difference?
I'm sorry I do not know if vomiting is a symptom of the Baytril? I suppose it's possible?
Baytril is a strong antibiotic. It's simple - either it works or it doesn't. Perhaps that is the vet is trying to determine?
So keeping in touch with your vet is a great idea as I'm sure the vet will know what to do next.
Especially when kept up to date regarding how your frog is currently doing.
Can you email your vet? If so, this is a great way to give precise /dated/ details.
Plus the vet can _ponder_ on the information you provide.

I am, however,  certain vomiting is a symptom of more than one type of a parasitic infestation.
Other symptoms could include less activity, no appetite ,  and even blood in the poop
One type of parasite called nematodes initially causes diarrhea. If left untreated, the infestation can spread to the lungs and cause respiratory distress.

His antibiotic could be changed also?
There is another ( Metronidizole ) that will simulate his appetite.

I have ( under a vets recommendation) used metro and panacur ( parasitic treatment)  at the same time to treat a black eyed tree frog.  Initially it was done WITHOUT a fecal because the frog was so sick.  I had to force feed this frog and use reptiboost for 7 weeks. I can sympathize with you; this is hard work.

Keep us posted
Lynn

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi everyone. Just got off the phone with the vet. He is mixing us some Metronidizole. He instructed us to give it orally..which should be fun. He warned us again that this medicine given orally could cause him to throw up his stomach =/. I was wondering if you guys can look at the pictures I posted last time. Did it look like the spots came back to you? They've disappeared again I believe. Was he just changing colors? What do you think? Is it only the green spots if they stay on him for weeks? because that never happened =/ I hope I did not give the wrong information when I started this post. I am just concerned because I was told to use bleach on his real cage so his friend Koko did not get the infection..which he hasn't. We never used bleach on his hospital tank when he felt better =(. We've been using soap and water. We did however change his paper towel everyday and used very hot water when rinsing. I am hoping that we did not mess up!  :Frown:  We are trying so hard.

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## Lynn

Hi Lisa,
I'm so confused?
Metro is typically _dropped_ onto the frog's back ? ( like the baytril) 

 Has Dr Frye been treating your frog?

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## Heather

Metro is a good medication. I have used it for most of my rescues. My vet always had me give it via topical drops also.

At this point you can just wipe the hospital tank down with hot dechlorinated water. Of course, be careful not to burn your little fella. I would soak Twiggy in his pedialyte dilution soak (in a mini critter keeper with a air-vented lid) while I cleaned out his cage. I had pre-made boiled dechlorinated water and put it into an empty spring water jug and allowed it to cool a bit. I'd use it to wipe out the enclosure daily with paper towels. I used the same pre-made water from the jug to mist his tank and new paper towels, and to fill his water bowl with (also changed daily). I used the water to moisten his paper towel for picking him up to feed him too. The goal was to minimize bringing in any new bacteria into his hospital tank. I would put Twigs back in when the tank was cool. I'd also wash my hands and put on powder-free gloves before doing any tank care, and again wash them when done. Diluted 10% bleach is fine to use, but you have to rinse very thoroughly and then rinse again with dechlorinated water. 

Tree frogs change color. Spots and/pr patchy discolorations are generally an infection of some type. They will persist and likely worsen until properly treated.

 The normal changing of colors can briefly make them look mottled or patchy, which could look like infection. How you will know, is the color change will finish making them look "normal" again, along with proper eating, pooping, soaking and they will have normal activity levels, energy, mobility, sleep/wake cycles and no further skin discolorations or lesions. Essentially they will look and act normal after the skin color change. 

Even the way the light reflects on them or areas of shading from light can alter their colors. They will always return to a overall same shade of green when the lighting or darkness is even against them. 

Here are some examples of the ways the light hits them differently and the way they can alter their skin as camouflage. It's quite amazing really. 

Is this photo you can see Serena's solid green hue (minus her "freckles"  :Smile: )...


In this photo you can see the bluish color where the lighting is brightest from that side of the tank...


Here you can see he has 3 different shades of green...


This photo is a good example of a color change in progress, incomplete. Here it looks as of he has an infection, though he does not and he finished the color change within a few minutes. 


We have to monitor our frogs behavior and eating/defecating habits along with assessing their skin to determine when something is wrong. Skin alterations that persist throughout the day are cause for immediate alarm and need to be treated quickly. A good time to observe their skin is when they're asleep and late at night when they are hunting. It gives you 2 color variations to compare. Now, keep in mind I have a retf. Most tree frogs can exhibit the same color changing responses. Skin alterations tend to show up most when the frog is dark. Another thing to be aware of is when green frogs tend to linger in a dark brown discoloration when they are not against a brown background, it could be a sign that they are stressed and/or sick. Still though, behaviors will help to determine such.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi all! No Dr. Frye is not treating my frog. I had emailed him in the beginning, but found a local vet who looks at frogs since my situation seemed severe and I didn't think I had time to wait for treatment via mail. 

When I had arrived at the vet it he had a change of plans. My vet contacted a Dr. Gentz who is his "go to" guy for reptiles/amphibians and got a second opinion. This is what the two of them came up with for my baby:

He gave us the Metronidazole in a powder form. Instead of giving it to him orally, he wants us to prepare a bath with it and gave us instructions to mix the powder in a liter of water (it says on the paper he gave me that its a 50mg/L bath) and soak him in it for 12-24 hrs. This is what I am supposed to give to him tomorrow.

I was also given Ivermectin which I was instructed to give him today when I got home. I was to give him one drop of this on his back and then get rid of the rest as he only needs one drop (the one time dose of this was 2mg/kg).

It says these doses are from  "Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry" which is available from the VIN bookstore. (This info is from a printout of the email between both my vet and Dr. Gentz..which my vet gave to me when we saw him today)

My vet assured me that this is pretty much an all encompassing parasite treatment. After this..he said I should have one sterile little frog. I hope this does it! Lemme know what you guys think! Ugh I just want him to be better. I've already promised him a huge cage when he turns around for some extra encouragement lol.

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## Lynn

> Hi all! No Dr. Frye is not treating my frog. I had emailed him in the beginning, but found a local vet who looks at frogs since my situation seemed severe and I didn't think I had time to wait for treatment via mail. 
> 
> When I had arrived at the vet it he had a change of plans. My vet contacted a Dr. Gentz who is his "go to" guy for reptiles/amphibians and got a second opinion. This is what the two of them came up with for my baby:
> 
> He gave us the Metronidazole in a powder form. Instead of giving it to him orally, he wants us to prepare a bath with it and gave us instructions to mix the powder in a liter of water (it says on the paper he gave me that its a 50mg/L bath) and soak him in it for 12-24 hrs. This is what I am supposed to give to him tomorrow.
> 
> I was also given Ivermectin which I was instructed to give him today when I got home. I was to give him one drop of this on his back and then get rid of the rest as he only needs one drop (the one time dose of this was 2mg/kg).
> 
> It says these doses are from  "Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry" which is available from the VIN bookstore. (This info is from a printout of the email between both my vet and Dr. Gentz..which my vet gave to me when we saw him today)
> ...


This is great ! great !
The Ivermectin is perfect. 
Please let me know how he is after the Ivermectin treatment!

You have done so much! 
You get the Super Frogger awared

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## xXxHeavenxXx

aww thanks!! I don't know what I would do without you guys and your endless support..

BUT HOLY POOP! I just saw him moving around and was curious what he was up to..and HES POOPING!!!! right now!! at least somethings trying to come out..we will see!  :Big Applause:

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## xXxHeavenxXx

kinda looks like hes having a hard time =/ looks a little watery..and its not coming out..but going back in UGH! grrrrr so frustrating!

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## Heather

Sounds like your vet does his/her research. Good to hear.

How'd  he make out trying to pass the poo?

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## xXxHeavenxXx

> Sounds like your vet does his/her research. Good to hear.
> 
> How'd  he make out trying to pass the poo?


no poop =( It went back in weirdly enough. I was like awww!!!

we just got done with his 12-24 hr bath..and he is very weak =( he held onto the side of the tank and tried climbing up and out a lot. he actually did pull himself up! we made sure at least his back end was in the water at all times though. Is it okay to do a pedialyte soak right away now? I just want to perk him up a little. He looks so drained.

After this soak..he looks thinner..so we will see if this stops the bloating.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

tried to put the crickets in with him..He isnt interested =(. For some reason it looks like the long soak really drained him. Not too sure why. I was hoping since the metro was supposed to be an appetite stimulant that he would eat for me tonight..but its not looking like it. If this keeps up I am going to have to force feed or use the reptaboost. He doesnt look good =(

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## Lynn

Hi Lisa,
You might consider this -liquid- product. It's very easy to use.
I purchased the -glass- 30 ml dropper bottle at a heath food store (aroma therapy section)



Amazon.com: Exo Terra Electolyte and Vitamin D3, 3.3 ounces: Pet Supplies

When he poops - remove it immediately - wear gloves !

Lynn

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## xXxHeavenxXx

hmm perhaps use that instead of the pedialyte? I'd like that since it helps give him some of the vitamins hes missing..have you used it before? and how do you give it to him? drops from the dropper bottle? Does it tell me how much to give my little guy? or maybe you know..=) 

I definitely have to do something tonight. If you guys see this before its too late..I'd like to know what you would recommend since he hasnt ate anything in about a week now(not to mention I dont know how much he got from the crickets he ate since hes been throwing up). Should I use reptiboost or a dusted cricket to feed him? He's super weak. Id hate to lose him now to hunger after I have him completely medicated and to be honest it really looks like the bloating is gone! I am keeping my fingers crossed that this is the end of it..and if I can just get him stronger..hes going to be alright. He's still clicking..but like we said we dont know if thats just him being stressed or part of the problem.

I am going to do a pedialyte dip first and put him in with crickets to see if he attempts to eat. If not I will do either reptiboost or crickets..whichever you guys think or whichever I can get down..one or the other!

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## Heather

I would pedi soak him and then see if he'll eat. If not, I think I'd do the reptaboost.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi Heather I hope your still on I need your help!

I had a question that I hope you will see before the end of tonight..Do  you know how to mix this reptaboost? I am looking at the instructions  and I am not understanding..I have a 5g frog..so I look at that and I'm  looking at severe malnutrition..it says 1 spoonful what does that mean? a  teaspoon? tablespoon? doesnt matter? per 1 cc of water..what is a cc in liquid form?  mL? Then it says he is to eat .2 cc's how do I measure that? lol I feel  stupid =P

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## xXxHeavenxXx

also..any special instructions? it says to be careful to not get it down into his lungs..like I could tell where this stuff goes when i push it in his mouth... -_-

I'm nervous lol so any tips are great!

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## Heather

> Hi Heather I hope your still on I need your help!
> 
> I had a question that I hope you will see before the end of tonight..Do  you know how to mix this reptaboost? I am looking at the instructions  and I am not understanding..I have a 5g frog..so I look at that and I'm  looking at severe malnutrition..it says 1 spoonful what does that mean? a  teaspoon? tablespoon? doesnt matter? per 1 cc of water..what is a cc in liquid form?  mL? Then it says he is to eat .2 cc's how do I measure that? lol I feel  stupid =P


There is a very small little scooper spoon in the box. That is the "spoonful". There should be a weight chart in the box for dosing. 1cc is equal to 1ml. Use about 1/5th of the bitty scooper of powder and mix it with about 2 drops of dechlorinated water or spring water. Mix it up and pull it up into the small syringe provided. Very carefully put the syringe into the side of his mouth. It is easiest to hold the frog if he's in a moist paper towel wrapped around him like a swaddle. 

I'll PM you.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Well..for the most part I think that was a success! We got it in his mouth and down his throat! I know we are supposed to give it to him slowly..there were a couple times we accidentally flooded his mouth =(. He did a couple good swallows though for us. It seemed like it really tired and stressed him out but while I was giving it to him it was like he knew..he perked up a bunch for us. Unfortunately now he seems extremely tired and wont move very much at all even if I touch him. I just put him in a comfortable spot and position at the bottom of his tank and hopefully he will rest up for us! I am hoping to see a new and improved frog tomorrow! =)

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## Jared

> Well..for the most part I think that was a success! We got it in his mouth and down his throat! I know we are supposed to give it to him slowly..there were a couple times we accidentally flooded his mouth =(. He did a couple good swallows though for us. It seemed like it really tired and stressed him out but while I was giving it to him it was like he knew..he perked up a bunch for us. Unfortunately now he seems extremely tired and wont move very much at all even if I touch him. I just put him in a comfortable spot and position at the bottom of his tank and hopefully he will rest up for us! I am hoping to see a new and improved frog tomorrow! =)


That's great, hopefully he is full of energy when he rests up. Good to hear  :Smile:

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## Heather

How's he doing this evening?

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## xXxHeavenxXx

He is looking pretty good. He may have thrown up some of the reptiboost..but I am not 100% sure as I didn't see him do it. I only say it because it seems like there are some orange-y stains on the paper towel where we put him last night to rest. I do not know if that is the stuff off his face or if he vomited. I picked him up to see his energy and he seems better than yesterday. There is something I think is a little off more recently. Ive had/have other whites..and he seems..sticky? I mist him a bunch (along with his soaks) and he dries out pretty fast. I am not just talking about his feet..but his back too. I mean he has in general a very sticky feeling. He even sticks to himself sometimes with his foot caught on his leg or back and its weird. It actually makes him pretty hard to handle..Is that a dehydration issue? 

We are going to try to leave the reptiboost a little more like pudding as suggested so its easier for him to take down. I do see some improvement! He's still my little clicker..still has a drooping mouth..The bloating looks down today.He is stronger..and says "Hello to all that are helping and/or watching my progress!"  :Frog Smile:

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## Lynn

Wow ! Lisa he looks great !
Keep up the good work.
Your little package is in the mail   :Wink:  ( mailed yesterday ...mid-day, so it made the 5 pm pick up from here) 
I think you should have it Monday?
Lynn

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## Heather

Great job! I am happy to see him holding himself up  :Smile: . He's so cute  :Smile: . 

Did you give the reptaboost another try? 

Hmmm...I'm not sure why he feels sticky. Misting and soaking should keep him nicely hydrated. They are like little sponges. I would guess it could be any combination of things...medicine, pedialyte residue, reptaboost residue, he may excrete some of the dextrose through his skin (?) - I have tried to research permeability and electrolyte cross-over (osmolarity) prior but I could not find much data. Or even changes from the illness itself...I can only guess. That's interesting though. Something to think about and keep in mind. 

Pondering....  :Smile:

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## xXxHeavenxXx

hey all..I waited a few days to see if he'd eat for me..and he hasnt touched a cricket..I tried to feed him the reptaboost again..but this time hes fighting me a ton =( I got half of it to him..going to give him a break and try to give him the rest a little later I dont want to make him sick. He was trying to get it out of his mouth. Right now hes not happy with me. Hopefully hes going to get better soon!

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## xXxHeavenxXx

alright..hes had all his reptaboost..I am pretty sure he hates me for this..but I really want him to get stronger! 

I had a few questions as I look him over..I am noticing some red "armpit" areas right behind his front legs..and he almost seems purple in between his back legs (where they attach to his body.) Its been there a little while and I keep looking at my other whites frog and am trying to compare..I will try to catch a picture of his legs tomorrow. His legs seem red but White's tree frogs naturally have some red in their back legs..so how do you tell if something is wrong there? I am just trying to cover anything and everything that I am noticing while I have him out.

I've also noticed some weird looking (almost looks like blue or black ink pen) marks on his back if you look very very very close. I mean they are like 1 millimeter..and perhaps something from off of the crickets we keep putting in there..but I thought I would share just in case it means something.

I am very confused at this point..All of his symptoms seem the same..still clicking..still holding his mouth open slightly. I am just trying to build him up a little now. I don't know if he has something wrong with him at this point? Or if he needs to be built back up? He wont eat yet for me. and STILL NO POOP! More energy though..I gotta fight him to feed him!

I dont know what to do =(

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## Lynn

Hi Lisa,
Is he done with all the medications the vet's Rx.
If so keep the Vet posted.
He is really given you a tough time!

? Wait 2 days and see if he either eats on his own or at least poops,  !
If you feed him in a bowl - put a bunch in so the _cricket movement_ really gets his attention. 

Lynn

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## COREY

Hi Lisa,

I have been following this post.  I want to commend you on all your hard work with your pet.  The dedication and  your time is truely showing your a great herp owner.  I AM 100% positive all the advice your taking in with the medications and treatments is keeping your little guy alive.  He would most likely have passed already and what your doing is AMAZING!  I hope he gets better within the week and back to normal.  

Question for LYNN and HEATHER:  Once he does get better to almost if not all the way normal.  How long would you keep him quarentened before putting him back wiht the other?!?

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## Gail

Lisa, you have one tough little fighter there.  Like Corey said, if it wasn't for all you have & are doing for this little one, he wouldn't be around.

I have used this to dose liquid meds and it works like a charm. 22 Gauge Feeding / Dosing Needle Curved - Reptile Basics Inc

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## Heather

> alright..hes had all his reptaboost..I am pretty sure he hates me for this..but I really want him to get stronger! 
> 
> I had a few questions as I look him over..I am noticing some red "armpit" areas right behind his front legs..and he almost seems purple in between his back legs (where they attach to his body.) Its been there a little while and I keep looking at my other whites frog and am trying to compare..I will try to catch a picture of his legs tomorrow. His legs seem red but White's tree frogs naturally have some red in their back legs..so how do you tell if something is wrong there? I am just trying to cover anything and everything that I am noticing while I have him out.
> 
> I've also noticed some weird looking (almost looks like blue or black ink pen) marks on his back if you look very very very close. I mean they are like 1 millimeter..and perhaps something from off of the crickets we keep putting in there..but I thought I would share just in case it means something.
> 
> I am very confused at this point..All of his symptoms seem the same..still clicking..still holding his mouth open slightly. I am just trying to build him up a little now. I don't know if he has something wrong with him at this point? Or if he needs to be built back up? He wont eat yet for me. and STILL NO POOP! More energy though..I gotta fight him to feed him!
> 
> I dont know what to do =(


A picture of the red and ink-like areas might help. Take the pictures before you  handle him too much and after. If the red area is present only after he has been handled, it may be a stress response. Pictures would help. When they get upset, their undersides can turn orangish-pink, right before they pee on you. Is that what it looks like? (Hopefully).  I'm not sure what the ink-like skin would be but I'll take a look.

Can he open and close his mouth properly when he wants to? How is his swallow reflex? Does he swallow easily after you feed or reptaboost him?

I am wondering if the clicking could be a stress response also? Frogs and nets can make a light clicking noise when startled, stressed or scared. Her mouth being open? Is it all of the time or only when she is clicking? It could also be a respiratory issue, though I think if it were respiratory, by this point his oxygenation would likely be affected and I don't think he'd still be with us. 

He has had 2 doses of reptaboost now? I think let him be tonight in terms of handling. See if maybe he'll try and eat. I like Lynn's idea of putting extras in. Maybe he won't be able to resist. He looks a little stronger now so maybe he'll give it a try. Crossing fingers!  

I know it doesn't feel like it but you are doing a great job! It can be frustrating when healing them because it seems like it takes forever and can be tedious. It's the unknowing that gets stressful. Why is it taking so long? Why isn't he eating? When will he start feeling better and acting normal? I think it's because we hope each day we'll see improvement. It gives us piece of mind. The hard part is waiting and wondering. You really are doing a wonderful job! He is still with you and has not declined. I can guarantee without your care he'd have passed by now. Appreciate what you are doing for him  :Smile: . You are a very caring frog mom!  :Smile: 

We will help you through this. We are here for you and your frog. 

Maybe you could call your vet and ask him what his expectations are? Keep in mind some frogs heal faster than others and some vets do not care for frogs often.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

:Big Applause:  :Big Applause:  :Big Applause: HE POOPED!! YAY!!!  :Big Applause:  :Big Applause:  :Big Applause: 

I happen to be in the same room as him tonight..watching TV..and we saw him wiggling his butt..so out of curiosity I got up and looked and sure enough..I saw him going! He did something very strange with it though. He finished and my immediate thought was okay I have to get that out of there so I can hopefully get it to the vet! I thought he would walk away from it..but instead he sat there and backed his body up over it and kept rubbing up against it. Weird?  I thought maybe he had to go more..but nothing came out and I didn't want him sitting on the little poop he finally got out of him!

Its very watery and very small.. so I hope the vet can use it! I am just happy to see something get through him! I really can't believe it! I was worried about him today because he had a green spot on his back I guess from all the stress of force feeding him. I took your advice and left him alone today and held him only to take a picture of the green spot and to move him away from the poop. No force feeding today. Now that he pooped..what should I do? Should I see if he attacks a cricket in the next few days? 

I AM SOOO HAPPY! lol!  :Big Grin:

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## Lynn

Terrific !
Feed him !  :Star: 
Calcium dusted!

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## Lynn

> Hi Lisa,
> 
> I have been following this post.  I want to commend you on all your hard work with your pet.  The dedication and  your time is truely showing your a great herp owner.  I AM 100% positive all the advice your taking in with the medications and treatments is keeping your little guy alive.  He would most likely have passed already and what your doing is AMAZING!  I hope he gets better within the week and back to normal.  
> 
> Question for LYNN and HEATHER:  Once he does get better to almost if not all the way normal.  How long would you keep him quarentened before putting him back wiht the other?!?


After at least ------2 clean fecals ?  Maybe 3 - Ask the vet.
You're getting there!

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## Heather

Yay! Get that poo tested and offer him some bugs  :Smile: . At least we know his GI system is working.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

just my luck that my vet is not in today or tomorrow =/ I think if he doesnt get back to me by tonight I will just drop it off at their office tomorrow morning  to have it sent out anyway. I wanted to make sure he wanted to still see it even though we already did parasite treatment

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## Heather

Not a bad idea.

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi again everyone! Well he is certainly pooping now for me since I started the reptaboost. I tried putting him in with the crickets..but he just sat there and shut his eyes while the crickets crawled all over him. I got him out of there..and tried to force feed a cricket. I must have the most temperamental frog..because after I get his mouth open..he uses his tounge to BLOCK the entrance to his mouth so you can't put anything in! *sighs* I was wondering..the end of his tongue is almost like a ball..is that normal? it goes from a small skinny tongue to a  big round nub at the end. Almost like the end of the tongue is in a knot or something. Just making sure that's the way its supposed to look.

It's been a few days so I used the reptaboost again tonight. That's nice and easy since its liquid and if it just sticks on his tongue well good enough =P he will bring it in.. Of course he hates this and after we give him a little bit at a time, he drags his tongue on the paper towel or my hand to get it off his tongue! I have never seen anything like it! I kind of just hope he gets some of what I give him. He's pooped at least 3 different times that I saw. Unfortunately, its very watery and theres not much to it. I am hoping he will start to attack the crickets soon. I guess we will have to call the vet again and ask what we should do next. I did not get a response if the fecal was going to be good enough to test when I emailed him so I will ask about that too now that hes going for me. 

Any ideas? I am still trying to figure out why while on the baytril he ate for me..and then stopped again. He wasnt pooping when he ate the crickets..Now he wont eat crickets..I feed him reptaboost and he poops..

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## Michelle A

Hi Lisa, how is the little guy doing?

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## xXxHeavenxXx

> Hi Lisa, how is the little guy doing?


Hi! Actually I am proud of him tonight..he ate his first cricket in MONTHS! =) Extremely excited that I didnt have to fight with him tonight to feed him the reptaboost! He seems like he doing much better actually. I wouldnt say cured yet..but his energy level is way up and he is very alert. I am seeing more out of him lately. Hes been crawling in and out of his water bowl, moving around the tank (not climbing a ton yet..but he did in his feeding tank!) When we touch the tank now..he opens his eyes right up!

We are still trying to figure it out with him. He was doing some weird things when he ate. His tongue does not stay in his mouth and was actually on the bottom of the cage while he was trying to digest that cricket. It seems.. "gooey" I guess? in his mouth. He opened and shut his mouth several times so I kept looking in. Something was also bubbling out of his mouth. Its interesting because it looks like its his shed skin? I was kind of wondering if that is possible to get lodged in his throat? I see it on the side of his mouth on the outside..it goes in and down along the sides of his throat. I was happy to see so far hes kept this cricket down. 

We had also decided when we get back to Florida to change some of the things we were using. I always powdered the crickets but I am going to switch brands and use a liquid calcium as well to see if that will change the condition at all. 

Otherwise..he's still here and still clicking at me lol

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## Gail

Happy to hear some improvement on him.  Poor little man has been through some tough times, and you too!  How do you use liquid calcium?

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## Heather

You can very gently roll the skin off by his mouth after a good soak. Sounds like he had a tough time swallowing it. He should be as to swallow it if its softened and loose.

Great job!  :Smile:  I'm happy he's starting to eat on his own.

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## COREY

i wish my red eyes swallowed their skin..they just love leaving it all over the leaves and glass for me to clean up...  :Confused:

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## Sherry

> i wish my red eyes swallowed their skin..they just love leaving it all over the leaves and glass for me to clean up...


Gross...

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## COREY

right?  before i figured it out what it was you would of freeked out on what i really thought it was... =O

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## Sherry

Now I have to know... :EEK!:  D@mn my curiosity...

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## xXxHeavenxXx

Hi everyone! Sorry I have not written an update with the move we did not get internet right away..I just wanted to let everyone know that my little baby is doing SOOOOO much better! He is eating very very well..nearly 3 crickets every day. He is much more active and is pooping regularly. I got scared at first since I did not see any poop for a little bit..but he did start shortly after I started getting concerned and has been going pretty regularly! He sheds normally as well. There is no more clicking noise at all! I just wanted to thank you all for all the help and support through this with him! I really think hes fully recovered!

We are still working on Koko and his problem with his leg. He seems to have good and bad days with it. He is still eating and pooping normally however and seems to still be getting around. We are trying different calcium to see if that helps at all. We also tried to coat the crickets with the reptiboost for him to see if that does anything. I will keep in touch with him on his little thread!


Thanks all! =D I could not have done it without you! :Frog Smile:  :Frog Smile:  :Frog Smile:  :Boogie:  :Boogie:  :Boogie:  :Boogie:

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## Heather

This is so wonderful to hear  :Smile: ! Great job! 

I hope Koko pulls through for you also.

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## Lynn

Lisa,
This IS great news!
I knew you had the knack!
Lynn

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## Carlos

Congrats Lisa  :Big Applause:  !  It's always nice to hear a success story.  Good luck  :Frog Smile:  !

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## josh

what vet did you go to

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