# Other Animals > Other Pets >  African Mantis VS Madagascar Hissing Cockroach as pets

## Amy

I know this is not at all amphibian related, but I'm hoping someone here can weigh in.

My 8 year old daughter is a budding entomologist.  She's been interested in bugs since she could crawl and her interest has only grown over the years.  She has a pretty extensive invertebrate collection and now wants some live bugs (beyond the woodlice I've bred for my frog tank.)  She is an incredibly responsible child, especially when it comes to knowledge and care of invertebrates.  She originally wanted a blue tarantula... I have no idea what species this is, but I am terrified of spiders, no matter how I've tried to work through it, so it's not happening and I will not do any research on it.  She also wanted some kind of giant centipede, that fear factor for me ranks close to a tarantula, not happening.

Now she wants either and African Mantis or a Madagascar Hissing Cockroach.  Those I can tolerate and even help her with.  She would prefer the cockroach, but I have some hesitation there.  Firstly, my landlord is convinced it will somehow cause a mass cockroach invasion in the duplex.  I think I could talk her into it but it would be a lot of work.  Secondly, I'm very allergic to the common cockroaches found here in the US.  Is there a possibility that I would react to this species also?  She's only 8, so she'd need guidance with their care (even if she does know more about them than I do.)  Would it be better just to go with the African Mantis?  I seem to have a harder time finding those other than online, where the cockroaches seem to be available at nearly every store in the area.

Any input?  I personally am not that interested in bugs as pets, but she is.  (Except for ants, she's terrified of ants.  Arm flapping screaming total freak out)

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## bill

I kept hissers both as feeders and pets. They are awesome! Low maintenance, easy to keep. They are excellent tank cleaners as well. They are so different than the German cockroaches we battle with daily. But not entirely sure if your allergy will transfer to those as well. Best person to ask about bugs, especially roaches is Jeff. He's the man when it comes to bugs. 
The mantids are also cool and if i remember correctly, there are plenty of options available in the hobby. 

So I am guessing if a centipede is out, a millipede is also? They are fascinating inverts as well. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Amy

She adores millipedes and I have no problem with those.  I never considered that for a pet and she's never asked.  That might be another good one to look into.  She collects the smaller ones we find outside but a big one as a pet might be fun.

I wasn't sure how low maintenance the hissers were.  We saw one for sale at the pet store in a critter keeper set up and they let her play with it.  It was pretty adorable watching her get so excited.  The guy working the counter was pretty amused by her reaction to it too.  I think he expected her to at the very least, be more hesitant.

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## bill

They are cool. I used to let mine crawl all over me, freaked my wife and kids out lol 
The only downside is that they only have about a 2 year life span. Why not start a small breeder colony for your frogs? They will easily munch on nymphs, and she can always keep the adults in their own enclosure. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

Oh, I should mention that hissers can and WILL climb smooth surfaces. However, a few inches of petroleum jelly around the top of their enclosure will keep escapes down. I kept them fora quite a while and never had an escape. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Amy

I am extremely doubtful I could talk the landlord into more than one or two of them LOL  I have wanted to do dubias for the frogs, but with my roach allergies, I wasn't sure how any of that would affect me.  Good to know that they climb walls, I just assumed they couldn't.  

She lets centipedes that she catches outside crawl on her arms, watching her do that with the roach was a lot less creepy in my opinion.  I'll never forget the first time she brought me a handful of centipedes though.  She was 3 years old and thrilled with all the "ticklebugs" she found.  I didn't want to react and make her scared of them, but I was cringing inside and asked her to go play with them in a different part of the yard LOL  When I bred the isopods (when I had 3 tanks of frogs and toads) she was always searching for things she thought they would like based on her bug books and bringing them in.

I will have to start doing some research and try to convince the landlord it's safe and will not infest the house or invite others in.

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## Jeff

You might explain to your landlord, if you haven't already, that these are tropical species that are completely incapable of infesting your home. Their requirements for reproduction are simply too strict for the average household (especially in WI) and the length of time it takes to reach maturity is so great that it makes things near impossible for individuals to survive to adulthood to begin with. There are something like 2500 species of cockroach, all of which are very important ecologically as nutrient cyclers and decomposers in nature, and of these only 4 pest species give a bad name for all of them. 

There are other roaches to consider, too. I think Malagasy hissers (_Gromphadorhini portentosa_) are probably the easiest to find and a tried and true pet. The live a long time relatively speaking, are handle-able, and fairly large and pretty. There are a several species and types to consider, too. There are Tiger Hissers with beautiful striping (_Gromphadorhina grandidieri_) that also come in a solid black form, Flat Horn Hissers (_Aeluropoda insignis_), Vibrant hissers (_Princisia vanwaerebeki_) are a very pretty species your daughter may enjoy... then there is the very large Wide-Horned hisser (_Gromphadorhina oblongonata_).

There are also "dwarf" species of hissing cockroach. I keep Javan hissers, also known as Halloween hissers (Elliptohina javanica) which only get a couple of inches long. Very cute, and pretty. Elliptorhina chopardi is a related "dwarf" species as well. These are also pretty easy handled and make for great pets. Their smaller size means smaller leg barbs but it also means they are a little less 'impressive' for lack of a better term when handling. 

_E. javanica_


I also keep very large peppered roaches (Archimandrita tesselata) which makes for excellent pets as well. Large, beautiful, fairly long lived, and also very calm and tolerant of handling. The adults have wings but cannot fly (although they can flutter fall and travel a couple of feet if falling from a higher surface):



The mantis could be a great pet, too. The downside is handling really isn't going to happen... This would be a display pet only. If that's fine with your daughter, mantids make great pets and interesting displays. 


As for your allergy: There IS cross-reactivity among different cockroach species. Individuals allergic to German and American roaches (_Blatella germanica_ and_ Periplaneta americana_) can also be allergic to Malagasy hissers. I'll try to dig up the paper for further reading... The study was led by Larry Arlian I think. He has a lab down the hall from mine and this paper is pasted outside of his door. I'll get back to you with that information soon if you want it.

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LilyPad

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## bill

Thanks for chiming in Jeff! I would be interested in reading that paper, if you can get a hold of it.  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Jeff

*Morgan, M. S., Arlian, L. G., Bernstein, J. A., & Yoder, J. A.  2007.  Allergenicity of the Madagascar hissing cockroach. 
Annals of Allergy, Asthma, & Immunology. Vol: 98(3), p. 258-261.*

You will have to PM me so I can email you the full-text if you want it. It doesn't appear to be available (at least via Google Scholar) without Purchase or University access:
Allergenicity of the Madagascar hissing cockroach

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## Amy

Wow Jeff, thanks for all the information!!  I will have her read over it with me when we get home on Monday.  You've given us a lot to discuss!

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## sschind

Where in Wisconsin are you located.  I'm in Twin Lake in the SE corner of the state.

As far the the pet bugs go I think hissers are the best for a first choice.  They are Large, handleable, easy to care for, and harmless.  Pretty much everything you want in a pet bug.  Mantids are very very cool but any adults or close to adults you get will likely only live a few months to MAYBE a year at the most.  Millipedes are cool but they hide a lot and if you want to see them you usually have to dig them up.  As far as the giant centipedes go I'd certainly not recommend it for a young child as they can be very aggressive and their bites can hurt like the dickens and sometime maybe worse.

If you want to spend a little more money and get something a little more exotic I would also recommend vinegaroons and tailless whip scorpions.  though handling is a tiny bit more of an issue with them, especially the TL whips because they are so fast.  If you've watched Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire you have seen a giant CGI version of the TL whip scorpion.

I do and insect show for schools and libraries and the kids love it as much as my reptile shows and to be honest I think I am more into the bugs than the reptiles myself.

I love your Avatar by the way.  Quite possibly my favorite animal of all.

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## Amy

Thank you all so so much for the information.  My daughter and I (and landlord) will definitely be discussing this all this week to try to find the best fit.  I am concerned about the allergy, but would be willing to try it and see what happens.  If she can handle a majority of the care herself, and I don't have to deal with much reacting, then it should be fine.  I do not intend to carry it around myself.  I had no idea there were so many different breeds though.  I will show her the pictures tonight.

Steve, I am just north of Milwaukee, a little over an hour from twin lakes.  Scorpions are not on the agenda.  I cringe looking at the dead ones in her bug collection!  There are certain invertebrates she will not be able to get until she's living on her own, centipedes, scorpions, and any type of spider all fall into that category.

Grey tree frogs really are awesome, and I think, quite underrated as far as tree frogs go.

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## Strider18

I would definetly go for the hissing cochroach as a pet for handling. No they won't take over the whole duplex, they need tropical temeratures to breed. And praying mantis' are definetly "look don't touch" kind of pets. I have kept praying mantis' before and they can be aggresive or calm, they are also very fast and delicate. In my opinion I would go for the cochroaches until your daughter gets older  :Smile:  I hope this helps!

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## Amy

I think that's what we've decided on, although she's doing some reading on millipedes as pets now also.  She had a zipper spider for a while about 2 summers ago (she was only 6 then) but I wouldn't let her bring it in the house so she let it go.  So she is okay with a look but don't touch pet.  Landlords are still not convinced on the hissers, will have to keep working on them.  It took a while to get them okay with my tree frogs too.

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## Strider18

They need humid and tropical enviroments to reproduce unlike normal german cockroaches. I would show them this site Madagascar Hissing Roach Care and Breeding they can't even survive temps below 68 F and I know that it gets way colder than that in Wisconsin. Even if they miraculously reproduced they would most likely end up dieing very quickly. Their normal temp just has to be 85-95 F to reproduce. Anyways I hope this will help you!

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## Lija

Quite a daughter you have! If she wants a spider you should give it a try yourself, try to have it on your hand...... You know defeating your fears kinda thing  :Smile:  Have been in the same shoes a bit over a year ago. Mine for her 8y bday wanted tarantula and i didnt exactly had a fear for them, but it wasnt something i would ever wanted to have in a house or near me. Long story short, she got her tarantula and i got mine a few month after lol.

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## Amy

> Quite a daughter you have! If she wants a spider you should give it a try yourself, try to have it on your hand...... You know defeating your fears kinda thing  Have been in the same shoes a bit over a year ago. Mine for her 8y bday wanted tarantula and i didnt exactly had a fear for them, but it wasnt something i would ever wanted to have in a house or near me. Long story short, she got her tarantula and i got mine a few month after lol.


I have an incredibly unreasonable fear, I think I'd either throw up or pass out haha.  I have always tried to keep it in check around her so that I didn't pass my fear on to her, but bringing them in the house is more than crossing a line for me. She has carried around spiders and centipedes since she was about 2.  She actually has boards laying around the yard and she goes and checks them to see how many milipedes, centipedes, stag beetles and woodlice has collected under them.  After all these years, she's only been bitten once and said it didn't hurt "that bad."  She is a pretty awesome kiddo. I was just going through her backpack the other night and found a research paper written about spiders!  There is a mansion in Texas that recently converted an area to a bug museum, she has been begging me to take her there....a little far to see some bugs! LOL

Everyone told me that she'd "eventually" stop liking bugs and start being afraid.  They were wrong!  She loves all inverts!  Unless it's an ant...

Still playing with the idea of a millipede and having discussions with the landlords.

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## Evan Spies

Matids are cooler than hissers. 

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## Lija

Outgrowing liking animals will never happen. May be you have a future famous biologist (entomologist, etc) at home, at 8y to do a research on anything on her own, wow!  You gotta go where she wants you to :Smile:  i bet it is lots of fun hearing her explaining to adults stuff she knows and seeing stares back, cos kids her age shouldn't be knowing things she does. Am i close?

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## Amy

Definitely Lija!  She has a 90 year old penpal in AZ who shares her love for bugs.  He is a person my dad grew up in the same neighborhood as and has become an "uncle" in our family.  He's the one that has sent her scorpions.  Whenever he finds a dead bug or a nice newspaper clipping, it goes in the mail to her.  Last time we were at half price books, she picked out 2 insect books and one about newly discovered animals.  

Don't mind her disastrously messy hair in this pic...she is too busy digging for bugs in the summer to get it out of her face apparently.  How many little girls do you know are that thrilled to dig up a bug?  I think they are stag beetles?  Not sure, you would have to ask her, bugs are not my forte LOL




Reading  time...did you know a black widow has stronger venom than a  rattlesnake?  And there are 120 different kinds of trapdoor spiders? Or  maybe that king cobras can be brown, green, yellow, or black?  That's what I got to hear about as she read that.  

I should dig up her research paper and copy it on here.

Don't get me wrong, her obsession with bugs is equaled by her obsession for Pokemon, Ninjago, and My Little Pony.  Her love for bugs is just the longest lasting to this point, considering it started from toddlerhood.

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## Lija

Lol i know two little girls just like that  :Smile:  one is almost 17 ( but used to be like that), another just turned 9. 
Never ending fun if you ask me!

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## Amy

I agree.  I have another older daughter who does love reptiles and amphibs (she catches garter snakes all the time outside) but absolutely hates any and every kind of bug.  I'm just happy that they're open minded and love nontraditional pets because once the cats are gone, there will be no more furries in our house.

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## Amy

Just thought I'd update, she has yet to make a decision and the landlord is still very reluctant on the cockroaches.  I do not want to rush her either, I want her to get something that she is happy with and committed to.  This thread has been extremely helpful though.

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