# Frogs & Toads > Pacman Frogs >  The treatment of MBD

## Drayvan

Well I asked on my other thread but it only started as a picture thread so not sure how many responses it will actually get. Basically a few days ago I bought an albino crannie, was told he didn't really eat much and all they could get him to eat was pinkies. I didn't see how he was kept, but as you can see he's had sand stuck to him (first picture) so im guessing he was kept a little dry.

Anyways! Since he's been here he was moved onto eco earth and then left alone to settle, with the odd locust thrown in for him to eat in his own time. Today I decided to try to get him to tong feed. After a little encouragement it turns out he has a voracious appetite, i'm hoping that means he's feeling better in his new home. Unfortunately when he was feeding his enthusiasm meant he grabbed the tongs, which is when I noticed his lower jaw was quite rubbery/soft. Other than that to me he looks ok, but do you think i've caught it in time and the correct husbandry will see him right? Or is there anything else I can do for him? I know not to overload him with calcium and D3 as thats almost as bad as none at all, i'm hoping slow and steady, consistent correct care will do him good, I just hope his internal organs are ok  :Frown: 

Anyway, thanks for any help you can offer. The second picture is of him a few minutes ago, freshly shed and just eaten a few locusts and crickets.

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## DVirginiana

Glad you got him and are caring for him properly.  While pinkies aren't good to feed more than once a month, they do have a fair amount of calcium and vitamins in them compared to crickets and other insects that haven't been dusted, so he may have gotten lucky there (since someone keeping one on sand probably wouldn't bother to dust the prey).

He may not even have MBD, or if he does it is probably really mild if all you're noticing is slight jaw weakness.  Severe MBD usually has them having difficulty moving, unable to push themselves up and sit normally with their front legs, and they can't keep their jaws closed, so the bottom one kind of hangs open.  As long as he's eating well and you're supplementing properly with calcium and vitamins, I think he'll probably be just fine.  :Smile:

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Drayvan

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## Drayvan

Thankyou! That's really reassuring  :Smile:  He's managed to shed so he's quite mobile although his hips look a little 'off' to me and a bit of an underbite, but that could just be because i'm worried and seeing what I think shouldn't be there. He can also support himself on his little front legs, in fact he's sat up, peering out at me right now. He's quite young still too, only about 2 inches, if that, so whatever bad keeping he's had, hasnt been for too long I would guess.

He is a little 'squishy' though compared to my other 2, almost like a water balloon but im thinking maybe thats just because I don't really feed rodents to my other 2 so he's bound to be a little flabbier than they are as he's eaten more fatty food.

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## Thevacantface

My girlfriend picked up an ornate from Petco with a droopy mouth around Christmas, just made sure it's had a proper dosing of calcium during feedings and all seems good now.  I also adopted a Cranwelli from someone on craigslist at about the same time that was significantly malnourished, frog was said to be 6 months old and was barely bigger than a froglet.  He's also doing much better with good calcium and vitamin regiment, still seems stunted in his growth and a severely hooked nose and poorly developed lower jaw that makes it a little tough to catch his dinner, but he does pretty well with a little help.  Basically I'm saying that if you properly care for your frog now, he will do alright.

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Drayvan

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## Thevacantface

If he is feeling squishy with a liquid feeling, I would be a bit concerned that he may have edema and should be examined by a herp vet.

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## Drayvan

Thanks! That's good to know  :Smile:  I don't mind helping him catch his food if it comes to that, as long as he's alright and not going to be suffering then i'm happy to do what he needs.

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## Drayvan

> If he is feeling squishy with a liquid feeling, I would be a bit concerned that he may have edema and should be examined by a herp vet.


It's not so much liquid feeling as just a bit baggy, if that makes  sense? It doesn't feel like he's filled with water, it just looks a bit  like it, although that was prior to him shedding... maybe it wassomething to do with that? I might take him for a check up regardless, just to put my mind at ease, I was going to anyway but because it's an hour away I wasn't sure if it would stress him out more than necessary.

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## Thevacantface

A good checkup is always a good thing, if he doesn't seem sick wait until he is well settled in because that will be a stressful day for him and it would be beneficial for him to have a familiar and safe feeling environment to come back to.  They always do feel very squishy just before they molt, mine all puff themselves up really big for a few minutes, then deflate and peel off their old top layer of skin they just stretched loose.

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Drayvan

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## Cory

Hi, im thinking if he is only about 2 inches he still isn't very old. If it just feels soft and he is eating good im almost thinking maybe it just feels soft because it isn't fully developed yet. Maybe that's all it is, my baby ornate that's about 1 1/4 inches give or take at the moment when he grabs on to the tongs its nothing to crazy or force full. Its kinda of a soft bite to be honest and I know 100% my little dude doesn't have mbd. I could be wrong so don't take my word on it but you would think if hes still growing his bones would be abit softer then a juvenile or adult. Im editing this, but I forgot to mention that from the pictures you have posted IMO his mouth seems to look fine. But again im not a vet and if you think something isn't right I would agree with TheVacantFace that checkup never hurts any. Oh and the part when I said I could be wrong I didn't mean that I could be wrong about my guy haveing MBD, it was regarding the development part.

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Drayvan

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## Drayvan

Could well be! I honestly can't remember how my others looked when they were his size, they may have been the same. I worry a lot, so it could just be my mind running away with things because I know he's not had the best start in life. I think i'll give him a few weeks to settle and then take him for a check up just to be on the safe side. I'll keep a close eye for any swelling up in case it is edema too and take him straight to the vets. He does seem well in himself though, I mean, he seems alright. The fact that he's eating whereas he wasn't in his old home looks promising anyway  :Smile:  fingers crossed im just worrying about nothing! I seem to do that quite often.

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## DVirginiana

I don't see anything off with the mouth... Can't really see the hips well enough to tell if something is going on there or not.

As for the possible edema, keep an eye on it.  He doesn't look like anything is wrong in those pictures, but fluid can build up quickly.  Usually with edema you'll notice them looking visibly bloated and sometimes even fluid buildup on the hind legs (that's much easier to notice since that area doesn't hold a whole lot of water normally).

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Drayvan

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## Drayvan

He looks ok this morning, I think I just saw his floppy jaw while he was eating, panicked and my mind just ran away with worst case scenarios! I'm still going to keep a close eye on him, I understand that sand harbors bacteria quite well? I've no idea how often, if at all, he was cleaned out, so a bit worried maybe that's got something to do with it. But so far no swelling at all and his skin looks healthier.

Other than slightly uneven hips and his weak jaw he does seem ok, im hopeful that just correct care is all he needs.  :Smile:  thanks for all the help and reassurance!

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## DVirginiana

Sand is kind of a bacteria magnet, but if a frog has an infection you're probably going to see symptoms like listlessness, strange looking poop/prolapse, and refusing food.  As long as you don't see any of that you probably don't have to worry about any bacterial issues now that he's off the sand.

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Drayvan

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## Drayvan

Awesome  :Smile:  he's still lively and eating me out of house and home... so i'd say it's quite likely he's alright in that respect then! I'll keep an eye out for a prolapse or any weird poo, when he decides to do one.

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## Drayvan

Annoyingly over night this little guy became rather listless, not wanting to burrow or open his eyes. A nice warm soak and a substrate change later (just in case) he has opened his eyes but is still sat on top of his substrate, doesn't seem to want to burrow. He's pooed a few times since being here, the last one contained some undigested food (yesterday) 

His appetite has reduced too. I've bumped up his temperatures a degree or 2 just to see if he's feeling the decrease in temperature we've had. Hopefully he picks up soon :/

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## Drayvan

Well he burrowed over night, I went out in the evening and bought additional heating for the room overnight just in case air temps are dropping too low for him which will hopefully help. He seems to have become sensitive to light so I've covered the top of his tank so I can turn the room lights on without him having to close his eyes. Just goes to show how important proper care is from a young age... poor little guy.

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## Cory

If he still seems abit listless you could probably give him a pedialyte bath. You can find it at the pharmacy in the kids department usually. Just make sure its unflavoured, and you could do a 1:10 ratio for the mixture. 1oz of pedialyte to 10ozs of water. This should help restore some of his energy. Sorry to hear the little guy still isn't feeling 100%, have you ever brought him to a vet to see if there is something else going on besides the MBD? and how does his mouth look and feel now, does it feel soft still? Im just wondering if its not MBD at all and there is something else wrong with him/her.

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Drayvan

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## Drayvan

His jaw is fine now, nice and firm. There doesn't seem to be any sort of disfigurement there luckily although his back legs don't seem to sit under him properly but that's improved a bit too. He seems to have perked up no end since his bath although i've not tried feeding him at all yet so I suppose that will be the deciding factor as to if he's feeling better, given what a great appetite he had up until now. I'll go out and pick up some pedialyte when the shops open again, thanks for that  :Smile:  I do have a tub of reptoboost if that would be any good for now? I will probably take him to a vet regardless, just to see if I can rule out any sort of bacterial/fungal infection or something. The last 2 days my 3 year old niece has been staying here so im wondering if the extra noise has something to do with it? Maybe the added stress lowered his immune system or something :/

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## Cory

That's good his mouth is better, I bet it was just the fact he was still a baby so the bone in the jaw wasnt fully developed. Im pretty sure the reptiboost would do the same as the pedialyte but I wont say im a hundred percent sure because I have never used reptiboost, I always go the pedialyte way if needed. And ya if I were you if he doesn't perk up for dinner I would bring him in for a checkup, he could of even contracted something from a feeder. And I agree that maybe the added noise of your niece maybe could have something to do with him acting abit off. My kids play room is downstairs beside my frogs and they don't go down there often because they are getting abit older but when they do usually that night my female wont come up. But she is always back to her normal ways the next day. Hope he starts acting normal for ya again soon.

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Drayvan

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## Drayvan

Gave him a bath in pedialyte yesterday, left him alone to settle down again, he completely buried himself this time. Dug him up just now and he ate 2 crickets, it was taking too much effort to convince him to take a 3rd so I quite while I was ahead so I didn't stress him out too much and will try him tomorrow or maybe the next day to see if he will take anything else.
He has an appointment at the vets in 2 days time which I will keep, just to see if there is actually anything wrong with him that can be treated. I'd be quite interested in having an xray done to see how his bones are looking if they think it wouldn't stress him out too much, but we will see. Thanks for the help and suggestions!

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## Drayvan

Oops! Forgot to update. The vet found nothing wrong with him apart from his back legs are a bit bent, but he's using them fine so shouldn't be a problem. They didn't want to xray him, which is a shame as it would have been interesting to see! But because he was improving and his bones were nice and strong feeling they felt it was a bit pointless, which I guess it was, oh well! He's burrowing, eating and pooing properly again, he ate a whole box of locusts last night, shed his skin and left a properly digested poop in his hole, so it seems whatever it is has gone. I'll remember to keep stress to a minimum and make sure the extra radiator is always on standby for night time temperatures just in case he simply prefers it warmer than the others. Thanks for all your help and advice in getting him back on his feet... I really thought I was going to lose him!

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## Cory

So glad to hear you took him to the vet and everything turned out ok. And its also nice to hear hes back to acting like himself. He was just faking it like a little kid who doesn't want to go to school to make sure you would be on the ball if he came down with a real sickness. :Frog Smile:  He was testing you. L.O.L

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## Drayvan

Lol!! As long as he doesn't do it again... frightened the life out of me.

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