# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > Breeding, Eggs, Tadpoles, etc >  HELP! Bringing home darts....

## whiteroses91

Uh well today, an animal rescue called me and had dart frogs and needed to get rid of them. So I went and got them. There were 8 frogs,  2 tads, and as i was leaving we noticed eggs in the bottom of the container. So...I have food and a beautiful set up...what do I do with the tads and eggs? I havent done any research on breeding yet.  


They are all at home in my tank. It's a 29 but were planning on setting up a 90 for them.

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## bshmerlie

John has a care sheet on the Imitating Dart Frog and also an article on how to build a Dart Frog Terrarium.  There is also a great article on Fruit Fly culturing. Those should get you started.  Why don't you post some pictures of what you have so we can help you further.

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## John Clare

For taking care of tadpoles:

http://www.frogforum.net/breeding-eg...ding-food.html

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## kevinpilon1

You want the temps in the 70's daytime w near 100% humidity. Many people just seal their tanks completely and only air them out for a little bit during feeding. Definitely check out how to culture fruit flies as you'll need em. It is quite simple but can seem to be a hassle at first. 

dendroboard.com is another forum and is dedicated completely to dart frogs. Pretty much everything there is to know about darts is there check it out!

What's the species? That will affect how you deal with the tads.

If you wanna get rid of a couple of the group I could help :Wink: 

good luck!

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## kevinpilon1

Could we see the set up? You said it was beautiful that sparked my fancy.....

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## whiteroses91

Thanks everyone, the new comers have made in through their first night. I've had the tank set up for probably 6 months or something. I couldn't decide on a frog, so it stayed just a little planted tank. Everyone is very lively this morning, but I can not find the tadpoles in my little pond...I'm hoping all is well with them. At the moment, my temp is 77 and my humidity is 95%(which is has only once gotten higher than this, so I hope this will be alright.) 
I got a container of already started cultures, so I'll have to get my practice in. But I do have another question, the guy the rescue got the frogs from said to feed them about 30 flies each? From my research, they only need about 3-5 each? Probably just a miscomunication? 

Because we have so many frogs, we have officially decided to set up the 90 gallon tank as a frog tank, so within the next two days I hope to get that up and running.

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## whiteroses91

oh and curious does the churping sound they make kind of sound like a cricket? If so, they are churping like crazy.

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## JimO

They look like Dendrobates auratus, but they also look a little odd, like they might be hybrids.  Can you get a close-up shot?  From a distance the pattern on their legs looks a bit odd.

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## JimO

The tank looks nice, but I'm afraid it is much too small for 8 frogs.  They are territorial and the more submissive frogs can be intimidated and ultimately waste away due to stress and not being able to compete for food.  Ideally, they should be paired up and each pair be placed in tanks of at least 20 gallons.

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## kevinpilon1

Jim I had a hunch as well they were possibly hybrids ( I like the St. Augustine quote). A close up of the frogs would be helpful if you are able  :Smile:

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## JimO

> But I do have another question, the guy the rescue got the frogs from said to feed them about 30 flies each? From my research, they only need about 3-5 each? Probably just a miscomunication?


 Depending on how often you feed them, 30 to 50 flies each is about right. I feed mine about every other day. Some feed twice a week.

They will also take very small meal worms, true pinhead crickets (tiny), and they love termites. But, termites to dart frogs are like pastry or cheese to us, a very nice treat, but a steady diet will make them chubby.

If they are hybrids, they shouldn't be allowed to breed, but could be enjoyed as beautiful pets. A 90-gallon might be ok for 8 frogs if there are a lot of hide spots and visual barriers. There will be some wrestling among the males, but as long as there is enough room for the less aggressive males to retreat, it might work.  If they lay eggs you could either remove and dispose of the eggs or just leave everything go its natural way.  Froglets might emerge from the water but most likely won't make it if it gets too crowded.  Some of the adults might die and some froglets might grow to take their place.  This all assumes they are hybrids.  If so, they shouldn't be given to a novice if you decide to give some away, but only to experienced keepers who will agree not to breed them and give them a good home.

Considering that some unique morphs of certain dart frogs species might become extinct in the wild, the only way to have any hope of re-establishing them is to avoid cross breeding morphs with a species or cross breeding species.  If captive bred frogs are ever released in the wild, they will have to have traceable bloodlines back to the original morph from that region.  As such, cross-breeding dart frogs is strongly discouraged.

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## MichaelS

They aren't auratus.  They look like tinctorius.  They are may be powder blue and probably not a cross.  It's hard to tell from the picture.   100% humidity and little ventilation can cause problems.  Adult female tinctorius can be territorial and like to fight.   Keep an eye on them to be sure they are not fighting.  A nasty trick female tincts will do is hold other females under in a water dish or water area.

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## kevinpilon1

What problems r u referring to w/ 100% humidity? I have never heard of any. I suppose some people leave their tanks closed for days at a time and that could be unhealthy.

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## JimO

I was actually thinking of an auratus/tinc cross, maybe auratus crossed with azureus.


> They aren't auratus. They look like tinctorius. They are may be powder blue and probably not a cross. It's hard to tell from the picture. 100% humidity and little ventilation can cause problems. Adult female tinctorius can be territorial and like to fight. Keep an eye on them to be sure they are not fighting. A nasty trick female tincts will do is hold other females under in a water dish or water area.

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## whiteroses91

Don't worry, I'm aware the 29 gallon is too small. We set up the 90, but hope to get rid of a few. I think, we have decided 4 is plenty. I think only 3 tops are males and the rest are female.

I also think they may be a cross breed, but my boyfriend isn't so certian, because one is VERY blue with no green. They all have the green and black bodies, then the black moves on to the legs and the green fades a slight blue green hue. But other's look like a normal black and green. He did a little research and thinks it might be a genetic defect, but who knows, seeing as I can't get ahold of the guy who gave them to the rescue. 

I put a picture of two of my frogs and a picture of what I have done on the new set up. It should be done by this afternoon. All we have left to do is fill the lake(far right side) and the pond(far left side) with gravel, java moss, ferns, and other plants/rocks. Then plant the last three plants and cover the organic soil with top coat, add a little pea gravel around the river and done! lol

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## kevinpilon1

Yep I'm 99% sure they're hybrids. New setup looks good way to come to the rescue!

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## whiteroses91

We finished the 90 this morning and released the frogs. They seem to be very happy!

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## MichaelS

100% humidity with a top that is closed to ventilation most of the time can cause stagnant air near the floor.  It discourages growth of most plants.  I usually do my tanks with high humidity and a couple muffin fans blowing in and out.  

I'd hesitate to guess they are cross breeds.  Not many people cross dart frogs.  Their are lots of types of tinctorious and lots of variation within those types of tinctorious.   My guess is if you google Dendrobates tinctorious and look at pictures you will find some that look a lot like what you have.

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## JimO

> I'd hesitate to guess they are cross breeds. Not many people cross dart frogs. Their are lots of types of tinctorious and lots of variation within those types of tinctorious. My guess is if you google Dendrobates tinctorious and look at pictures you will find some that look a lot like what you have.


I hate to disagree, but I've seen many cases where people have kept different morphs of a species or different species together and unintentionally created hydbrids. Some people deliberately create hybrids and at least one "morph" of tinctorius was found to be a hybrid of Powder Blue and Azureus tinctorius that had been created by a Dutch breeder who offered it as a new morph.

This is a photo of one of my Dendrobates auratus adults (Costa Rican Green and Black morph). This is a typical pattern for various auratus morphs and the frogs in question have similar body patterns. However, the leg patterns aren't right for an auratus.



If it's a pure auratus, it should be strongly marked on the belly, like this. 



Here is a link to a site with morph guides for both D. tinctorius and D. auratus. Most of the known morphs in the pet trade are shown.

http://www.tropical-experience.nl/

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## JimO

> They aren't auratus. They look like tinctorius. They are may be powder blue and probably not a cross.


Again, I hate to disagree, but I have Powder Blue tadpoles that I obtained from a breeder and here are a couple of pictures of the parents for reference.

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## MichaelS

> Again, I hate to disagree,


It doesn't look like you hate to disagree.  It looks like you like to disagree.  Marcus does a good job with his Tinctorious guide but it is not all inclusive.  The pictures of the suspected crossbreeds are not clear enough to tell anything.

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## John Clare

I have to confess that I scrolled through the thread to see if there were pictures _before_ I read anything that was said about hybrids, and my first thought was "nice aur... wait a second, those look like hybrids".  So I'm with the folks saying hybrid.

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## daziladi

I would be in heaven with a 90 gallon tank! Gratz on your new frogs, looks like your patience paid off. Hope you post bigger photos when you can.

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## JimO

> It doesn't look like you hate to disagree. It looks like you like to disagree.


No, not really.  Just trying to help out.  If the OP gets a positive ID that proves me completely wrong, I'm fine with that.

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## MichaelS

I would like to see an in focus picture of the frogs.   I've seen a lot of variety in tinctorious including F1s from wild.   Without knowing lineage sometimes it's difficult to say what they are.

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## JBear

I have seen one of my local pet shops have(very young) tincs, auratus, azies, and leucs in the same tank. When I questioned them on it, they said they do it that way b/c they are not sexually mature yet. The problem lies in that someone comes in off the street and sees them all housed together and makes assumptions. In the end they potentially all get bought and thrown into a genetic mixer under improper care. I can easily see how people can create these hybrids through nothing more than lack of knowledge and ignorance. It is a shame...

I agree that the frogs shown in the culture cup look like tinc+auratus. They look too long and also, as JimO said, the leg patterning is just off to be auratus full.In my opinion, probably some non hybrids(from original buy), and then some offspring showing the hybridization. That would explain the variety in the morphology, as from my own experience, babies tend to carry certain group traits by clutch.

JBear

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