# Frogs & Toads > Pacman Frogs >  3yo - Trixie not eating! Help

## froghub

1.   Size of enclosure - 19"-19"-24"(height)
2.   # of inhabitants - 1
3.   Humidity - 80 day- 85 night
4.   Temperature - 27.4ºC Day - 25.7ºC night  by day/night+light thermostat.
5.   Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish - bottled water with reptisafe treatment.
6.   Materials used for substrate - Coconut fiber
7.   Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. - 1 fake plant 1 water dish
8.    Main food source - dubias, nightcrawlers.
9.    Vitamins and calcium? 1 time yes 1 time no
10.   Lighting- 1w led 4000k 12h day
11.   What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure - ceramic heat lamp
12.   When is the last time he/she ate - november 2019
13.   Have you found poop lately - last time before aestivation.
14.   A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) - attached
15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area. - some bloating too.
16. How old is the frog - 3 Years old
17.   How long have you owned him/her - 3 years
18.   Is the frog wild caught or captive bred - captive bread
19.   Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats -> pinkies, crickets
20.   How often the frog is handled - rarely
21.   Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area - yes
22.   Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) - daily water change. mix the substrate and spot clean every day too. substrate every 2 months.

Hello  guys,
it's been a while since i've been here,
Well my 3yo pacman frog has gone in aestivation for the third time. But this time it is longer. He still seems to be shedding. He has stopped eating in november 2019.
So, not interested in live pinkies, not interested in dubias nor nightcrawlers. He just dodges food and turns arround. Have not yet tried more crickets. I know this is normal in estivation. My concern is that it has been a long estivation already.
I've been putting him in water honey bath, no joy either.
He's becoming skinny...
Well usually this behavoir last about 4 months, this year is already in 6 months and counting.
I've no idea what is happening.
I've changed its substrate from ecoearth to another brand but it should be the same.
Do any of you have an idea of what is happening?
Thanks.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Is that the frog's normal color?

Stop using the honey bath. That's not going to help.

You are going to have to force feed the frog if it will not eat. Try crickets before you attempt to force need the frog.

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## froghub

> Is that the frog's normal color?
> 
> Stop using the honey bath. That's not going to help.
> 
> You are going to have to force feed the frog if it will not eat. Try crickets before you attempt to force need the frog.


Hello,
Yes that's the normal color. Last year he was green this year he's a bit clearer on the green and the brown is darker. But the flash on the camera makes it look even more clear than he is. 
I did offer him live and frozen(defrosted ofcourse) pinkies. No joy
I bothered him a lot yesterday and managed to feed him two dubias. Better than nothing. It seems that he doesnt want to open mouth. Also it dodges food, turn arround and burrows.
I will try crickets too.
If not i'll force feed him.

Any ideias why he doesnt want to open up that mouth? This guy never had problems eating. Sometimes he needs a honey bath he poops and eats again that's all.

He doesnt have any uvb light or things like that. But if you believe that would help i can get one. Just a led and ceramic heater.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Hello,
> Yes that's the normal color. Last year he was green this year he's a bit clearer on the green and the brown is darker. But the flash on the camera makes it look even more clear than he is. 
> I did offer him live and frozen(defrosted ofcourse) pinkies. No joy
> I bothered him a lot yesterday and managed to feed him two dubias. Better than nothing. It seems that he doesnt want to open mouth. Also it dodges food, turn arround and burrows.
> I will try crickets too.
> If not i'll force feed him.
> 
> Any ideias why he doesnt want to open up that mouth? This guy never had problems eating. Sometimes he needs a honey bath he poops and eats again that's all.
> 
> He doesnt have any uvb light or things like that. But if you believe that would help i can get one. Just a led and ceramic heater.


Sometimes when they come out of aestivation their personality seems to change. They may be more likely to bite, change their preferred food, or just be even more lazy. It doesn't happen with all individuals, but some seem to not want to eat and just burrow back down.

Sometimes all they need to spark their appetite is to just eat something. I'm going to recommend that when you force feed that you use Repta-Boost. Follow the instructions. This can act as an appetite stimulant.

Do stop with the honey baths. Try just warm water. Using the honey bath too often can be harmful.

UVB can be beneficial, but is not necessary. You can try it out and use it as a form of supplemtation.

When you offer food is it dark in the room and the enclosure?

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## froghub

> Sometimes when they come out of aestivation their personality seems to change. They may be more likely to bite, change their preferred food, or just be even more lazy. It doesn't happen with all individuals, but some seem to not want to eat and just burrow back down.
> 
> Sometimes all they need to spark their appetite is to just eat something. I'm going to recommend that when you force feed that you use Repta-Boost. Follow the instructions. This can act as an appetite stimulant.
> 
> Do stop with the honey baths. Try just warm water. Using the honey bath too often can be harmful.
> 
> UVB can be beneficial, but is not necessary. You can try it out and use it as a form of supplemtation.
> 
> When you offer food is it dark in the room and the enclosure?


Alright, will try repta boost when i get some crickets.
I did stop the honey baths, just warm water for a while now.

About the uvb, what lamp would you recommend, and how many hours a day?

I try both, i do have more joy when i feed him during day. This guy has rarely eat at night. And i did try lights off too various times.

About repta boost seems that we dont have this in europe. Any other product similiar to this?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Alright, will try repta boost when i get some crickets.
> I did stop the honey baths, just warm water for a while now.
> 
> About the uvb, what lamp would you recommend, and how many hours a day?
> 
> I try both, i do have more joy when i feed him during day. This guy has rarely eat at night. And i did try lights off too various times.
> 
> About repta boost seems that we dont have this in europe. Any other product similiar to this?


No particular lamp necessary. Just one that fits the bulb. Use something around 25 watts that is full spectrum. Exo Terra Repti-Glo 2.0.

You can use it for the main daylight bulb so no need to change the photoperiod.

I do not know of any similar products offered in Europe. If you have a Vet you can see if they can get you some Emeraid Carnivore or something similar.

You should only offer food early morning or at night. They are nocturnal after all.

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## froghub

> No particular lamp necessary. Just one that fits the bulb. Use something around 25 watts that is full spectrum. Exo Terra Repti-Glo 2.0.
> 
> You can use it for the main daylight bulb so no need to change the photoperiod.
> 
> I do not know of any similar products offered in Europe. If you have a Vet you can see if they can get you some Emeraid Carnivore or something similar.
> 
> You should only offer food early morning or at night. They are nocturnal after all.


Alright gotcha, something with a lot uva and few uvb.

How far from the substrate should it be +-? If it is too much of a distance i should consider a 13w one maybe cause the socket is inside about 15" from the gound.

 I do use repashy calcium plus and repitive but will see to find another one similiar to those you talk.



I was able to find this one, will this do? Also is it supposed to be fed by a syringe?


I'll insist with him at night then.

Thanks, i'll keep you posted

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Alright gotcha, something with a lot uva and few uvb.
> 
> How far from the substrate should it be +-? If it is too much of a distance i should consider a 13w one maybe cause the socket is inside about 15" from the gound.
> 
>  I do use repashy calcium plus and repitive but will see to find another one similiar to those you talk.
> 
> 
> 
> I was able to find this one, will this do? Also is it supposed to be fed by a syringe?
> ...


You can try that.

Be careful with these critical care formulas. They are made to break down and become bioavailable rapidly and can grow bacteria very quickly if contaminated.

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## froghub

> You can try that.
> 
> Be careful with these critical care formulas. They are made to break down and become bioavailable rapidly and can grow bacteria very quickly if contaminated.


Alright man, will do, i'll keep it in the fridge and  be carefull with it. It says 7 days, which is short and product is expensive.

How do i do this?
Force feed him with syringe in liquid form or do i make like balls open his mouth and put them inside?
Also how often should i feed him this? Large quantity twice a week? Or every day like package says?

I'll invest in this prior to get the uvb bulb, since uvb will not make that huge difference but this can. And he does get some sun where he is. Maybe a plain uva lamp instead of the led can benefit him. I shall see if they're not too expensive i'll get one too.

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## froghub

> You can try that.
> 
> Be careful with these critical care formulas. They are made to break down and become bioavailable rapidly and can grow bacteria very quickly if contaminated.


I've force fed him 5 dubias today.
He's not happy when i open his mouth.
Waiting on the intensive care powder to arrive.
Also he seems very stressed lately.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> I've force fed him 5 dubias today.
> He's not happy when i open his mouth.
> Waiting on the intensive care powder to arrive.
> Also he seems very stressed lately.


I'd leave him be since you've force fed him. Messing with him a lot will increase stress. Force feeding even more so. That's why it is only used as a last resort.

Bulb height is based on output. Many are recommended 12 inches from substrate so 15 inches should be okay. I would go with lower wattage. 13 should be fine.

Don't force feed him again until after you get the critical care formula. Follow the instructions on the package. You will be using the dosage for reptiles despite the fact that you're feeding a frog. It will be liquid and yes you'll be using a feeding syringe.

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## froghub

> I'd leave him be since you've force fed him. Messing with him a lot will increase stress. Force feeding even more so. That's why it is only used as a last resort.
> 
> Bulb height is based on output. Many are recommended 12 inches from substrate so 15 inches should be okay. I would go with lower wattage. 13 should be fine.
> 
> Don't force feed him again until after you get the critical care formula. Follow the instructions on the package. You will be using the dosage for reptiles despite the fact that you're feeding a frog. It will be liquid and yes you'll be using a feeding syringe.


Alright. I just put him in luke warm water so he could relax, not touching him until i receive the formula.
He did spit the dubias. Once they were in again he was obliged to eat them.
Alright, should i use a tube in the syringe open his mouth get it in and pump it there? Then at the end take the tube away, thats the plan?
How often should this be done? Powder will be here by end of next week.

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## froghub

Hey again.
I've bought the new bulb from exoterra, Natural light compact 13w. Which they don't state it has uvb 2.0 anymore.
By the spectrum i guess it has some. I've put it inside the terrarium so he has some uvb since lamp is 2.0 or even lower.
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/natural_light.php
So it is in place. Frog comes out to catch sun during day(around 6 p.m) which seems impressive to me since he never did that.
Will leave him aline two days and force feed him the carnivore care formula after that.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Hey again.
> I've bought the new bulb from exoterra, Natural light compact 13w. Which they don't state it has uvb 2.0 anymore.
> By the spectrum i guess it has some. I've put it inside the terrarium so he has some uvb since lamp is 2.0 or even lower.
> http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/natural_light.php
> So it is in place. Frog comes out to catch sun during day(around 6 p.m) which seems impressive to me since he never did that.
> Will leave him aline two days and force feed him the carnivore care formula after that.


Sounds good.

As for the force feeding. You'll probably have to pry his mouth open and you'll only want to feed him about 0.5 mL of the liquid food at a time until. They have not evolved to drink fluid so sometimes they have trouble with a large amount at once. Less than 0.5 mL is also acceptable and may be best until the frog ingests the desired amount.

To be clear, this is the volume per mouthful. Just force feed small amounts. You should be able to use the directions on the bag to determine how much to make based on his weight. I would do this every other day to limit stress.

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## froghub

> Sounds good.
> 
> As for the force feeding. You'll probably have to pry his mouth open and you'll only want to feed him about 0.5 mL of the liquid food at a time until. They have not evolved to drink fluid so sometimes they have trouble with a large amount at once. Less than 0.5 mL is also acceptable and may be best until the frog ingests the desired amount.
> 
> To be clear, this is the volume per mouthful. Just force feed small amounts. You should be able to use the directions on the bag to determine how much to make based on his weight. I would do this every other day to limit stress.


Alright i'll have it in consideration. 
I'll try first to do this more solid so it would be like food for him, since it says on the package that the water can be adjusted.
If i'm able to make something that looks like a ball of the powder that will be ideal and he can swallow more at once? If not feasible i'll feed him with syringe then.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Alright i'll have it in consideration. 
> I'll try first to do this more solid so it would be like food for him, since it says on the package that the water can be adjusted.
> If i'm able to make something that looks like a ball of the powder that will be ideal and he can swallow more at once? If not feasible i'll feed him with syringe then.


It should be the consistency of melted ice cream. Do not make it more solid because you may give too high of a concentration of formula. This is designed to be a liquid not a solid. Do not feed him balls of formula.

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## froghub

Alright understand. I will get bigger dubias and crickets this time. I'll try that first.
If he heats normally i will not give him that. Since he was force fed already and now has the exoterra bulb things might be better. Otherwise will syringe fed him. I used to have a blue led there at night he seemed more active. Is this recommended or not? Something like a night light?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Alright understand. I will get bigger dubias and crickets this time. I'll try that first.
> If he heats normally i will not give him that. Since he was force fed already and now has the exoterra bulb things might be better. Otherwise will syringe fed him. I used to have a blue led there at night he seemed more active. Is this recommended or not? Something like a night light?


They are not necessary but can be used if you like. The important part is not using a light source that interferes with the animals day night cycle.

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## froghub

Will only use to feed him then if they're not needed no need to waste power either.
If it helps him see it is one thing if it only helps us see i'll connect it when i'm arround to feed him at night.

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## froghub

> They are not necessary but can be used if you like. The important part is not using a light source that interferes with the animals day night cycle.


Hey there.
Force fed him the formula today, quite easy. He was not too upset and did it little by little.
I will keep this going for a week or so and each time try to feed him normally before.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Hey there.
> Force fed him the formula today, quite easy. He was not too upset and did it little by little.
> I will keep this going for a week or so and each time try to feed him normally before.


Good to hear.

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## froghub

> Good to hear.


I did less so i was sure i was not overfeeding. Next time will do complete dosage...
He is suposed to poop normally on formula or will it be liquid? Will i know when he poops?
Btw what are the best multi vitamin that you can provide this guys? As i told you i use repashy calcium plus and reptivite when i feed him every other time.
Thanks man he already seems more active.
Will keep you posted

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> I did less so i was sure i was not overfeeding. Next time will do complete dosage...
> He is suposed to poop normally on formula or will it be liquid? Will i know when he poops?
> Btw what are the best multi vitamin that you can provide this guys? As i told you i use repashy calcium plus and reptivite when i feed him every other time.
> Thanks man he already seems more active.
> Will keep you posted


What you are using is fine for supplements. You will need to give less often because adults do not need supplements as often as  growing frogs. Once per week is sufficient.

The formula is loaded with vitamins as well.

The frog's poop will look quite different, but the majority of the solid matter will be absorbed with not much waste so the frog may not poop for a while when on the formula. You will notice if the frog poops it will look different.

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## froghub

> What you are using is fine for supplements. You will need to give less often because adults do not need supplements as often as  growing frogs. Once per week is sufficient.
> 
> The formula is loaded with vitamins as well.
> 
> The frog's poop will look quite different, but the majority of the solid matter will be absorbed with not much waste so the frog may not poop for a while when on the formula. You will notice if the frog poops it will look different.



Alright man.
Just finished feeding him is formula. He's starting to open mouth on his own.
He seems to be shedding more and faster since on formula. Is it normal?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Alright man.
> Just finished feeding him is formula. He's starting to open mouth on his own.
> He seems to be shedding more and faster since on formula. Is it normal?


It's probably unrelated.

Observe the condition of his skin closely. Does he eat it like they normally do or does he slough off and leave it? Constant sloughing of the skin or trouble shedding usually indicate a skin condition like a possible fungal infection, but not always.

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## froghub

This year i did nor catch him eating it. But he did not have the strenght to open the mouth either. There are only very small strips coming out already. Nothing like it usually does. There are just some bit when he is in water coming off.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> This year i did nor catch him eating it. But he did not have the strenght to open the mouth either. There are only very small strips coming out already. Nothing like it usually does. There are just some bit when he is in water coming off.


Probably just a result of malnutrition. The formula should help with that.

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## froghub

> Probably just a result of malnutrition. The formula should help with that.


Alright, how long should i give him the formula? Until he eats normally or should i rely on it for a while?
 I'm not planning on using it more than a week due to bacteria, but if it is that helpfull i can get another one.  Also it is on the fridge, i use gloves when manipulating etc.
Also when he eats package says that i can sprinkle normal food with it as if it was a supplement...

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Alright, how long should i give him the formula? Until he eats normally or should i rely on it for a while?
>  I'm not planning on using it more than a week due to bacteria, but if it is that helpfull i can get another one.  Also it is on the fridge, i use gloves when manipulating etc.
> Also when he eats package says that i can sprinkle normal food with it as if it was a supplement...


Offer food as normal. The idea is to stimulate his appetite and get him strong enough to eat on his own. I would use it for a couple weeks while offering normal food item as well to see if he will take them.

You can use it as a supplement. Many of these formulas state that they can be used as such to provide extra nutrition. You can hold off from feeding him the formula for a couple days to see if he will eat on his own.

The formula will last longer than a week. It's just important to minimize the chances of contaminating the formula. It should be fine.

The decision is of course yours to make.

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## froghub

> Offer food as normal. The idea is to stimulate his appetite and get him strong enough to eat on his own. I would use it for a couple weeks while offering normal food item as well to see if he will take them.
> 
> You can use it as a supplement. Many of these formulas state that they can be used as such to provide extra nutrition. You can hold off from feeding him the formula for a couple days to see if he will eat on his own.
> 
> The formula will last longer than a week. It's just important to minimize the chances of contaminating the formula. It should be fine.
> 
> The decision is of course yours to make.


Hey, yes i'm offering normal food always prior. He's starting to want food but not yet. At least he already tries to catch it and holds on to the syringe as they should hold to the prey. I'll give him three days off on the seventh day to see if he wants some dubias. If it does i'll finish the powder using it as a supplement yes.
Also he is fully shedding now, very fast. Seems that he hasn't done the job as i thought.
As far as i know he's eating it. Also pooped yesterday, in the water bowl...

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## froghub

> Offer food as normal. The idea is to stimulate his appetite and get him strong enough to eat on his own. I would use it for a couple weeks while offering normal food item as well to see if he will take them.
> 
> You can use it as a supplement. Many of these formulas state that they can be used as such to provide extra nutrition. You can hold off from feeding him the formula for a couple days to see if he will eat on his own.
> 
> The formula will last longer than a week. It's just important to minimize the chances of contaminating the formula. It should be fine.
> 
> The decision is of course yours to make.


Little guy is already eating and catching tongues and some dubias lol. Which is great. I'll give him the day off today and tomorrow will try to normal feed him again.
Thanks man.

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## froghub

Also there was some formula that was sprinkled on the terrarium coconut fiber thanks to the dubias. Is this a major concern and require a sooner change of substrate or is it fine?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Little guy is already eating and catching tongues and some dubias lol. Which is great. I'll give him the day off today and tomorrow will try to normal feed him again.
> Thanks man.





> Also there was some formula that was sprinkled on the terrarium coconut fiber thanks to the dubias. Is this a major concern and require a sooner change of substrate or is it fine?


You're welcome.

If possible remove the small amount of formula from the substrate. You don't want it mixed in with it.

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## froghub

> You're welcome.
> 
> If possible remove the small amount of formula from the substrate. You don't want it mixed in with it.


Hey, yes the visible part is gone i did remove it by hand. But some might have got mixed in there. Well i guess i'll change him by next weak. I'll take him out to feed next time while on formula

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## froghub

> You're welcome.
> 
> If possible remove the small amount of formula from the substrate. You don't want it mixed in with it.


Hey man.
I've fully changed the substrate too.
He's already eating. Thank you again. He has gained weight too.

I've this guy at 82°F during day. 78°F during night (on the warm side, the cold side is about 3F between hot and cold sides. So day is by the lamp 82-78f om the cold side and night is 78-75F on cold side)

He's burrowing very deeply in the substrate, which he usually don't. Today he had his eye out so he's doing better i guess.

As i said he's 3years old. Are the temps in range? He is still a juvie or adult?
What temp when he becomes adult?

Also humidity during day is on spot. Arround 77%. At night it goes up to 90%. But as my hygrometer doesn't seem reliable i've ordered another one to see... But if it is 90% at night would that be too much?
I can state that he doesn't like the humidity lower that 75% during day so a good trick i found is to point the heat lamp to the water bowl. This way the water is luke warm too and keeps it humid without having to constatly soak the substrate. (Ofc the substrate is humid, i just don't like it running water when i squeeze it)

I've opened more the vent holes in the front too. So air circulation is not really a issue.

I've also added some big fake plants so he doesn't stress at all. He likes to hide in then.

Lately he's fully shedding also. Color became darker.

Thanks man

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Hey man.
> I've fully changed the substrate too.
> He's already eating. Thank you again. He has gained weight too.
> 
> I've this guy at 82°F during day. 78°F during night (on the warm side, the cold side is about 3F between hot and cold sides. So day is by the lamp 82-78f om the cold side and night is 78-75F on cold side)
> 
> He's burrowing very deeply in the substrate, which he usually don't. Today he had his eye out so he's doing better i guess.
> 
> As i said he's 3years old. Are the temps in range? He is still a juvie or adult?
> ...


Your frog is an adult.

Your temperature range is fine. As for the humidity jumping to 90%, that is due to no light burning off the moisture in the air. It's a little high and you'll need to watch for mold growth on the substrate.

Burrowing deeper is most likely due to the lights. Nothing unusual there.

Glad he is doing better and you're welcome.

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## froghub

> Your frog is an adult.
> 
> Your temperature range is fine. As for the humidity jumping to 90%, that is due to no light burning off the moisture in the air. It's a little high and you'll need to watch for mold growth on the substrate.
> 
> Burrowing deeper is most likely due to the lights. Nothing unusual there.
> 
> Glad he is doing better and you're welcome.


Alright, as lamp needs to be on at night too(the ceramic heater) and there's air circulating i guess the hygrometer is not that accurate. Since it's a cheap ebay one.

I'll buy a new hygrometer and check on that before making assumptions. It even shows 99% most of the times. And no it doesnt get wet...

About the mold that's not an issue since i constatly mix the substrate arround but i'll check on how i can lower the humidity at night. I've ordered a reliable higrometer too.

Or i can bump a little the night temperature to 26°C to see if that helps also.

How can one know the gender of the frog? He seems like a male to me since he's not that big, whats your opinion?

Thanks again.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Alright, as lamp needs to be on at night too(the ceramic heater) and there's air circulating i guess the hygrometer is not that accurate. Since it's a cheap ebay one.
> 
> I'll buy a new hygrometer and check on that before making assumptions. It even shows 99% most of the times. And no it doesnt get wet...
> 
> About the mold that's not an issue since i constatly mix the substrate arround but i'll check on how i can lower the humidity at night. I've ordered a reliable higrometer too.
> 
> Or i can bump a little the night temperature to 26°C to see if that helps also.
> 
> How can one know the gender of the frog? He seems like a male to me since he's not that big, whats your opinion?
> ...


Check the frog's thumbs. There will be a dark spot on the side of the digit know as a nuptial pad if the frog is male. Females tend to be larger than males and mostly lack any identifying markers.

Males size is typically between 6.3 cm and 7.3 cm with some individuals reaching 9.3 cm. There is some variation based on species and overall care of captives. Females are usually between 10.8 cm and 12.7 cm depending on species and care as well.

Also, at this age you should have heard the frog call (croak) if male. Only males produce a mating call. Females just kind of make a grunt. Both are capable of producing the defensive scream.

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## froghub

> Check the frog's thumbs. There will be a dark spot on the side of the digit know as a nuptial pad if the frog is male. Females tend to be larger than males and mostly lack any identifying markers.
> 
> Males size is typically between 6.3 cm and 7.3 cm with some individuals reaching 9.3 cm. There is some variation based on species and overall care of captives. Females are usually between 10.8 cm and 12.7 cm depending on species and care as well.
> 
> Also, at this age you should have heard the frog call (croak) if male. Only males produce a mating call. Females just kind of make a grunt. Both are capable of producing the defensive scream.



It's almost certainly a female. But i'll take a better look afterwards.
So she's eating normally and shedding but she leaves the skin on the water.
Also it is the first time that she eats during shedding. As you stated before this could be a skin problem the fact that she doesn't eat it?
Any worries here?
Or is it cause of the formula? She was not able to shed before and now she's shedding as the skin is old she doesn't eat it?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> It's almost certainly a female. But i'll take a better look afterwards.
> So she's eating normally and shedding but she leaves the skin on the water.
> Also it is the first time that she eats during shedding. As you stated before this could be a skin problem the fact that she doesn't eat it?
> Any worries here?
> Or is it cause of the formula? She was not able to shed before and now she's shedding as the skin is old she doesn't eat it?


Does she leave all her shed or is it only some small pieces?

They typically eat the whole shed, but sometimes miss pieces because the shed gets stuck or tears during the process.

If you would, post new pictures of the frog after she sheds.

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## froghub

> Does she leave all her shed or is it only some small pieces?
> 
> They typically eat the whole shed, but sometimes miss pieces because the shed gets stuck or tears during the process.
> 
> If you would, post new pictures of the frog after she sheds.


Hey, not this year no.
And i've never seen her shed like this. Check the pictures.
He's missing shedding on top where you can see the skin.
The skin in the bowl is what she hasn't eat.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Hey, not this year no.
> And i've never seen her shed like this. Check the pictures.
> He's missing shedding on top where you can see the skin.
> The skin in the bowl is what she hasn't eat.


Her skin looks fine.

What is left in the water could be from her stomach. Since she is sitting on that portion of skin while shedding it may year and that is why she doesn't eat it. Next time she sheds you should watch her and see what she does. It isn't uncommon for some of the shed to be uneaten.

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## froghub

> Her skin looks fine.
> 
> What is left in the water could be from her stomach. Since she is sitting on that portion of skin while shedding it may year and that is why she doesn't eat it. Next time she sheds you should watch her and see what she does. It isn't uncommon for some of the shed to be uneaten.


Hello,
Yes it is from the area of the stomach. She was taking it out with the left back paw i saw it.
Alright then, i was unware of this info,
Thanks

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## froghub

> Her skin looks fine.
> 
> What is left in the water could be from her stomach. Since she is sitting on that portion of skin while shedding it may year and that is why she doesn't eat it. Next time she sheds you should watch her and see what she does. It isn't uncommon for some of the shed to be uneaten.


Hey there,
Are madagascar hissing roaches a good alternative to pinkies? I've some of those they're quite big and she did eat one once.
Also this girl is wanting to stop eat again. I'm kinda force feeding her.
She's not in the mood anymore. She has finished shedding and pooped yesterday a big turd (thanks to the water and honey)
Today only ate one dubia willingly. I've gave her two more.
I'll only feed her 1 weak from now to see how this goes.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Hey there,
> Are madagascar hissing roaches a good alternative to pinkies? I've some of those they're quite big and she did eat one once.
> Also this girl is wanting to stop eat again. I'm kinda force feeding her.
> She's not in the mood anymore. She has finished shedding and pooped yesterday a big turd (thanks to the water and honey)
> Today only ate one dubia willingly. I've gave her two more.
> I'll only feed her 1 weak from now to see how this goes.


You can use hissers but I wouldn't offer the adults because they are large and contain a lot of chitin. Not really a substitute for mice because they're not the same. It's always good to offer variety when it comes to food.

She really only needs to eat two or three times per week.

Water and honey is not supposed to be used for regular bowel movements. Only when they are constipated. Just use warm water if you think she needs to poop.

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## froghub

> You can use hissers but I wouldn't offer the adults because they are large and contain a lot of chitin. Not really a substitute for mice because they're not the same. It's always good to offer variety when it comes to food.
> 
> She really only needs to eat two or three times per week.
> 
> Water and honey is not supposed to be used for regular bowel movements. Only when they are constipated. Just use warm water if you think she needs to poop.


About the chitin i didn't know that. Althought it will not harm as a threat from time to time right?
She just seems stressed and seems to me she wants back to aestivation.
Yes, she's eating once a weak or twice and not that much. And i need to bother her a lot to open her mouth. Which in her is not normal at all she always had a lot of apetite.
She used to eat like 10 dubias now is a pain to feed her 3.
I'll offer her a big pinkie next time to see. Althought she hasn't much interest in food still. She has just finished shedding also.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> About the chitin i didn't know that. Althought it will not harm as a threat from time to time right?
> She just seems stressed and seems to me she wants back to aestivation.
> Yes, she's eating once a weak or twice and not that much. And i need to bother her a lot to open her mouth. Which in her is not normal at all she always had a lot of apetite.
> She used to eat like 10 dubias now is a pain to feed her 3.
> I'll offer her a big pinkie next time to see. Althought she hasn't much interest in food still. She has just finished shedding also.


You said she was eating on her own, but now you are saying that you have to force feed her again?

You can offer her the roach nymphs rather than adults. Their Chitin is not quite as hard. Also you can sneak food into her mouth when she opens it while shedding. This way you don't force her mouth open. Once they bite down on something they usually with go ahead and eat it.

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## froghub

> You said she was eating on her own, but now you are saying that you have to force feed her again?
> 
> You can offer her the roach nymphs rather than adults. Their Chitin is not quite as hard. Also you can sneak food into her mouth when she opens it while shedding. This way you don't force her mouth open. Once they bite down on something they usually with go ahead and eat it.


Yes she was eating on her own for a while. Now by the end of shedding she doesn't want anymore food it seems.
When i say force feed now, she is openning her own mouth, but it takes a lot of time for her to recognize the food i guess now. I kinda have to bother her with the dubia a lot before she starts to eat. Even the big one did not make that difference. After 2/3 dubias she stops eating.
Well i guess she's learning again how to eat. Anyway i gave her a big rest to see if it makes a difference now.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Yes she was eating on her own for a while. Now by the end of shedding she doesn't want anymore food it seems.
> When i say force feed now, she is openning her own mouth, but it takes a lot of time for her to recognize the food i guess now. I kinda have to bother her with the dubia a lot before she starts to eat. Even the big one did not make that difference. After 2/3 dubias she stops eating.
> Well i guess she's learning again how to eat. Anyway i gave her a big rest to see if it makes a difference now.


You should try something other than roaches. They tend to not like the spikey legs they have and will sometimes refuse them. Try Earthworms or see if you can get Hornworms for her.

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## froghub

> You should try something other than roaches. They tend to not like the spikey legs they have and will sometimes refuse them. Try Earthworms or see if you can get Hornworms for her.


Hey there.
I usually cut dubias legs and head off before feeding. Anyway she's not interested in them no. I've just fed her 6 crickets easy. She didn't want anymore and went away. Nightcrawlers i'm able to find but only on winter. Hornworms i've never seen around. But there are wax worms, those i've seen.

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