# Frogs & Toads > Pacman Frogs >  Is our Pacman frog sick?

## xghostmakerx

Hello, I am wondering is my sons Pacman frog is sick.  He's been acting strange the last couple of days and only wanting to hang out in the water and he hasn't pooped in a week or so (that i can find).  Yesterday when we took him out of the water to change it he made a sound for the first time ever.  Today when I went in there to take him out of the water to change it, he stretched his back legs out and they were twitching a bit.  He seems a little better now but we're still worried about him.  He's doubled in size over the past month we've had him and he is eating with assistance.  

I've heard of this red leg disease and he does have a little redish ting to his underside of his groin area.  I am not sure if this is normal and I've attached a pic.  

1. Size of enclosure - 10 gallon
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences - No other frogs although we do leave a few crickets in there with him
3. Humidity - 70% average.  We control this by misting.  We are using an analog gauge for temp and humidity so its hard to tell if these numbers are exact.  
4. Temperature - 75 degrees average.  We control this with a heating light.  
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish - bottled spring water
6. Materials used for substrate - whatever we got at the pet store.  Came in large bricks that we soaked and they crumpled apart.  
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. - Just a piece of wood for him to hide under.  
_- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source - super worms and crickets
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often) - we've never used vitamins as we were told by the pet store that the crickets had them in them.  
10. Lighting - Not sure, we use two bulbs.  One for night and another for day.  
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure - Heating lamps
12. When is the last time he/she ate - yesterday (tong fed)
13. Have you found poop lately - No
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) - Pics attached
15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area. - Just the twitching of the legs and the failure to poop
16. How old is the frog - We've had him a month
17. How long have you owned him/her - A month
18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred - Captive bred 
19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats - super worms, crickets and grubs
20. How often the frog is handled - daily to feed
21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area - low traffic
22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc = Change water usually twice a day and clean once a week. _  :Dispirited:

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## Eli

Im sorry that your pacman frog is not feeling well  :Frown: .

I think the temperature should be just a tad higher

Superworms have high levels of chitin which is hard for the frog to digest. I do not recommend feeding superworms at all.

Vitabug crickets DO NOT have the essential vitamins and calcium that your frog needs. I know petco loves to fool people. You should be dusting the food with calcium every other feeding and multivitamins once a week.

The twitching of the legs sounds like symptoms of metabolic bone disease. Recommend you dust.

Nightcrawlers are the best staple for pacmans. You still must dust and make sure they are dye and chemical free.

Try to feed the frog in the cage.

Good luck

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## xghostmakerx

Based upon the pic I provided does he look like he has this red leg syndrome?

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## Eli

I cannot say for sure but if you can get in touch with an amphibian vet that would be great

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## Colleen/Jerrod

No, it does not look like redleg. It is normal for their thighs to be a little pink. He does however look bloated. When you feel his sides are they squishy like they are filled with water or harder like a balloon filled with air?

You mentioned that you are using spring water. What type and are you dechlorinating it? Spring water should still be dechlorinated, including any water you use to expand substrate. If you are not dechlorinating then the most likely answer is that the frog is Toxing Out. This accounts for the bloating, listlessness, lack of appetite, and twitching.

Try to get your temperatures up to 76-79 at night and 80-83 during the day and humidity around 80%. You can cover 2/3 of the top of the enclosure with plastic wrap or similar to help maintain heat and humidity. You can also get a UTH and place it on the side of the tank. Those temps will also aid in digestion.

Try nightcrawlers as a staple diet. Crickets are not that nutritious and only have vitamins if you are gutloading them. Either way you will need a vitamin supplement and calcium with D3.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

We need some more details. Could you post a picture of the enclosure? The substrate you want to use is coco fiber not coco husk, expanded with dechlorinated water.

You mentioned that he isn't pooping. Does he have a hard lump on his right side? Or is not pooping because he hasn't been eating much? 

Most likely he will need to go to a vet.

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## Carlos

I'm very sorry your son's frog is not well  :Frown:  .  4 weeks ago you asked for initial advice and we provided care article link and information to include feeding and the need for dusting:  http://www.frogforum.net/pacman-frog...wner-here.html.  Suggest review that thread and stop following your local pet store advice; which is already proven flawed by your frog's condition.

Here are two veterinarian locators:  Arav and Herp Vet Connection.   Agree with Collen/Jerrod it's not Red Leg.  The bloating (specially if concentrated around rear quarters area and move as in jelly/wave like) point to another possibility.  Extended exposure to day cold temps (75F average as reported) has damaged the frog's kidneys and lymph hearts.  The veterinary can drain the excess fluid out and correcting temps will prevent a recurrance of bloating; but sadly, the organ damage is permanent  :Mad:  .

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## DVirginiana

If you're using an analog thermometer for his tank, I'm betting your temps are actually colder than it's saying.  Like Mentat said, kidney damage is entirely possible.  75 should be the low range for night-time temps.  But with 75 as your avg/high temp you're probably looking at temps getting down in the 60's especially at night.  Get a heating pad and place it on the side of the tank in addition to your heat lamp; also make sure the frog is in an area where AC can't blow on him (we keep the vents closed in our reptile room).

If a vet isn't an option (it's the best option, but I know sometimes a herp vet just isn't available), fix the temps immediately and do a soak in lukewarm treated water with several drops of honey mixed into it.  This will cause them to pee and poop, eliminating a lot of retained toxins.  Depending on the level of organ damage, doing soaks every other day for awhile may help out or it may not.  Also, if you're having to assist-feed him anyway, try appropriately sized chunks of nightcrawler dusted with vitamin powder.  They are more nutritious and easier to digest than superworms (stop feeding those altogether) and crickets.
I let someone else care for mine for awhile, and when I got her back she was having seizures and not eating; turns out they hadn't been misting, heating when cold, or keeping her cool when it was hot for quite a while.  I was pretty sure she was going to die, but that was over two years ago, and she's completely back to normal now.  Mainly, don't just assume the frog is going to die, because there is a chance he'll recover.  But review what was said in that other thread; frogs are very sensitive, and ignoring correct husbandry can cause problems quickly.

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## xghostmakerx

I'll be going out today and getting vitamin powder and drops to treat the water.  I'll also try the honey soak.  

I also have been feeding him grubs.  Can I keep feeding him those or should I completely switch to earth worms?

When I squeeze him a little on his sides he is squishy.

I am not sure what a UTH is

My cage i covered completely with foil on the top to retain heat except for the place where the heating light comes through.  I am pretty sure the analog heating and humidity gauge is not accurate but I've already asked a few times for specific models or brands to purchase for that but came up empty.  Looking around at Amazon every one of the items that they sell there gets bad reviews so its hard to know what to choose.

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## xghostmakerx

Just to add some additional information.  I went to petsmart this morning and got a digital humidity gauge and temp gauge and I am actually at 80 degrees and 82% humidity.  Also got the little guy some water treatment stuff, some vitamin powder and some earth worms.  He's currently soaking in a warm bath with some honey in it.

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## DVirginiana

Digital is good.  Hopefully he'll come around.  Let us know how the night-time temps look with the new thermometers.  If your temps have been hovering between 75-80 I think organ damage is a lot less likely.  You could be looking at a lack of vitamins instead (can sometimes cause twitching/neuro issues), but that's more easily corrected and the worms sound good.  
If by grubs you mean superworms, don't feed those.  They have a lot of chitin in the exoskeletons and that can cause impaction.

UTH means Under-Tank-Heater.  They come in a bunch of different sizes, and are made to stick to the bottom of the tank.  For pacs, they should be put on the side since pacs burrow to cool off and having a heat source beneath them can confuse them.  I prefer heat pads to lamps just because they allow the frog to self-regulate more.  I like having a room just for the reptiles so I can just keep ambient temp 80-82 and not worry about lamps or UTHs except during winter lol.

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## xghostmakerx

Hi, I did pick up a heating pad today too that I plan on putting on the cage tonight.  I'll certainly give it a try on the side.  I haven't done anything different with the temp/humidity and when I put the digital gauges in the tank today I was pleasantly surprised that the humidity was over 80%.  I'll cut out the super worms.  I was feeding him the small ones but I've also been feeding him grubs.  I am not sure if there is a technical term for them but they are fat and white and don't really move around much.  He does like those but I did have the wife pick up earth worms today.  I got a calcium with D3 powder today and some drops to help the tap water.  He already seems like he is doing better.  He's been moving around a bunch today and he's burrowed himself under the log again today.  When he was in the water soak today I was really surprised how well he can move around in the water.  I only had a little bit in there but he was splashing around in there like he was in a swimming pool.  Is that (honey & warm water soak) something that he should do often?

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## DVirginiana

I do a weekly honey soak for mine, just because she tends to get impacted very easily.  If he's acting better with the changes you've made, probably don't worry about it.  That was mainly for if his kidneys were damaged (with this new info I think that's less likely).  Other members with more experience can comment on the likelihood of long-term damage, because I'm honestly not sure.

I'd not do a honey soak more than every other day for a sickly frog that really needed it.  No more than once a week for a healthy frog (mine seems to genuinely feel better afterward, and it doesn't stress her out)

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## Meep1000

He hasn’t eaten in about a week now and this on his face started as a little spot then grew stopped growing once started neosporin ive taken over his care now and need help.

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