# General Topics > General Discussion & News >  Collecting amphibians

## Gail

I don't get it.  People think it's okay to just take a adult animal from the wild.  Taking one adult reduces the population by hundreds, even thousands.  The animal you just took beat the odds and made it to adulthood.  PUT IT BACK!!  Buy a c/b from a breeder or wait until you can find some tadpoles and raise them up yourself.  Geez people, think before you take!!  It's breeding season now, leave em' alone.  Ok, I'm done.



p.s.  and do your research & have your viv set up BEFORE you bring the animal home.

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## Lynn

> I don't get it.  People think it's okay to just take a adult animal from the wild.  Taking one adult reduces the population by hundreds, even thousands.  The animal you just took beat the odds and made it to adulthood.  PUT IT BACK!!  Buy a c/b from a breeder or wait until you can find some tadpoles and raise them up yourself.  Geez people, think before you take!!  It's breeding season now, leave em' alone.  Ok, I'm done.
> 
> 
> 
> p.s.  and do your research & have your viv set up BEFORE you bring the animal home.


Go Girl !!!!!  : encouragement:

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## Kristen

I agree so much!

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## Heather

I agree also  :Smile:

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## Gail

Some times it makes me wonder if humans are going to be the demises of frogs and toads before the chytrid fungus.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Honestly it boggles my mind how many have died here that I know of and have tried to help save. I know that thousands die in captivity on a daily basis. We can only do so much for C/B and wild frogs. I plan on joining the Cincinnati Herpetological Society this summer. Might be best to get involved. :Smile: 

PS) It isn't always peoples fault that their frogs pass and even though people are ignorant sometimes they can't always be to blame. If someone wants to capture wild adults it better be a pair and there intentions better be to further the population by reintroducing their young into the wild otherwise like Gail said LEAVE THEM BE!!!!!!!!

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Also I don't agree with capturing wild Adults. I'm just saying that there had better be a good reason like for breeding purposes to further their population. I agree with Gail that it is best to go with raising wild Tads though rather than Adults :Smile: .

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## Gail

I so agree with re-poplution helpers.  Last year I collected 5 toadlets, raised them for a few months then released 3 back where I originally got them from.  Kept two which turned out to be male & female, so next year I hope to have tadpoles to raise then release. I wish I saw more posts with people breeding and releasing natives, so far I've only seen one.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

I guess its far too much work to breed for repopulating and that's why a lot of people shy away from it. I read the post in the Toad section where the member capture wild Toads and Brumated them for breeding and is now raising tadpoles. Good post :Smile: .

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## Gail

I check in on that thread once a week for updates.  I can't wait to see the toadlets.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> I check in on that thread once a week for updates.  I can't wait to see the toadlets.


I always love to see sucessful tad to toad/frog developement. I've been going back to it atleast once a week. There are hundreds of baby American Toadlets every year at my work. They hop in the back door of the shop and I take them outside Lol!. They are so cute and hard to catch. I work at a Fiberglass Factory so its is not safe for them to be anywhere in there. We do have an adult Toad that winters over in the actual shop in a large deep crack in the concrete floor. Lol! I guess Fiberglass doesn't affect their skin like it does ours. He has his burrow lined in the stuff Lol!

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## Gail

Well maybe not always, but most of time its because people dont do their research before they bring the animal home, or have the correct set up for them.  OR when its sick or injured dont take it in for medical attention.  Weve all seen this posted time and time again, and it just seems to be more frequent and this REALLY frustrates me and makes we want to just avoid the frog forum all together.  But then someone will post awesome news or those incredible pictures and Im suckered back in.  [QUOTE=GrifTheGreat;107638]
PS) It isn't always peoples fault that their frogs pass and even though people are ignorant sometimes they can't always be to blame. QUOTE]

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## Heather

I feel the same. It is saddening to hear some stories. Many stories actually. Thank goodness for the good ones  :Smile: .

I am thankful for the forum though, bc I have learned more here than anywhere else and I believe the education I've gathered here is why my frogs are doing so well  :Smile: .

I blame pet stores most for the lack of available care teaching. Being that they sell amphibians I think they should provide proper education sheets. They show off the pets and make people want to buy them, but then they don't provide what buyers need to know.

I also wish people would not impulse-buy and would do their research first. 

Amphibians have specific care needs and people think they can just put them in a tank with dirt, water, and food and then they get sick or die. They come with responsibility, sometimes more than people anticipate. And I know our educated friends here dedicate a good amount of time to their frogs and toads. 

Anyway....how do we teach people to research first? I wish I could buy-out all of the local pet stores and do it right. Not a likely wish though.

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## Gail

Heather, people need to teach their kids responsibility, but then that’s a whole other forum.  I guess we just hope and pray for the best.  And as for pet stores…. I think it should be outlawed to sell live animals.

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## Heather

Excellent point! 

Hence the wanting to teach the 350 +/- kids at my daughter's school about preserving the natural outdoor habitats and frog and toad populations in the wild. It's something, anyway.

I am a big believer in saving wildlife. 

My husband says I should have been a biologist/ conservationist/ vet  :Smile: . He's probably right  :Smile: .

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## Kristen

When I breed my frogs I always give twenty or so tadpoles to my little cousins school (she's in grade one) and they watch them grow and get feeding duties ect.to learn the responsibilities of haveing a frog. They always get really into it and always want to learn about how they can help frogs and how to make the frogs home as natural as possible. They learn why you shouldn't take frogs out of the wild and all, they really love it. They have made a pond out in the yard hoping to make a little frog habitat so they can see their natural environment. It's a reall great way for them to learn about it all  :Smile:

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## Heather

That's wonderful!  :Smile:

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## Gail

I’ve been told the same thing about choosing a profession, but if I were into any job that caused me to come in contact with some one who is teasing, abusing or killing animals, well I would end up in jail cause I would most likely cause them major bodily injuries.


> Excellent point! 
> 
> Hence the wanting to teach the 350 +/- kids at my daughter's school about preserving the natural outdoor habitats and frog and toad populations in the wild. It's something, anyway.
> 
> I am a big believer in saving wildlife. 
> 
> My husband says I should have been a biologist/ conservationist/ vet . He's probably right .

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## Gail

That is awesome, and I hope more people take the time to do what you’re doing.


> When I breed my frogs I always give twenty or so tadpoles to my little cousins school (she's in grade one) and they watch them grow and get feeding duties ect.to learn the responsibilities of haveing a frog. They always get really into it and always want to learn about how they can help frogs and how to make the frogs home as natural as possible. They learn why you shouldn't take frogs out of the wild and all, they really love it. They have made a pond out in the yard hoping to make a little frog habitat so they can see their natural environment. It's a reall great way for them to learn about it all

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## NatureLady

To add my two cents worth to this post...I am beyond glad to read this!!!!

One of my first posts to this site was on a thread about a person whom lives in a neighboring state that had an endangered species (in our two states) in his care. I asked him if he understood that his state was against any form of buying, selling, owning, or anything having to do with the species. He got all bent out of shape at me and I felt alone in caring about animals well being and natural populations.

I am an environmental conservationist who works at a state nature center...hence NatureLady. I have to have all sorts of state and federal liscences to keep and collect animals for displays and educational purposes. I have a vet that is contracted for my center and he does a vet check on all of my husbandary and general animal health bi-annually. Plus I can rush to his office and he will see me at any hour needed. I also worked at a vet's office during my college years as a vet tech, so I am trained in how to detect abnormalities in my animals. My work is not child's play, although I think that some see it as such. I teach each person (young or old) that walks through the door that animals are wild for a reason and why we do not keep them as pets. I don't even have wild natives in my home.  I have a cb wtf and other domestic creatures, but not wild babies!!!

Education starts young...caring is built from understanding...keep true to your feelings and teach in a manner that makes the person drop the emotional asspect of why they WANT WANT WANT.  

Sorry if my rant has mispellings...no time to spell check it first  :Smile:

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## REDDEV1L

I keep native species over here in the UK, and it's amazing how few people do it. (Alot think its illegal...which I suppose is a good thing)
although we have very few species compared to the states, so im sure that has something to do with it.

The only reason I would remove a juvi/adult amphibian is if it was in need of help, couldn't properly fend for itself (injury/deformity) or was an albino which would be much more likely to be eaten by a predator.

The main reason for my current collection is due to raising some spawn which I thought would be nice for my little bro to learn about etc.
Unfortunately, I didn't have any proper info regarding supplements and lighting etc and many of them developed MBD and died. This is what brought me onto forums tryig to find out how to help etc... and luckily I still have two remaining toads who are now over 3 yrs old.
 After learning more and more, and being more confident, I collected some frogspawn, and raised 3 frogs to adulthood. They bred last year, so I raised the tadpoles until close to metamorphosis, then released most but kept a few back. This year the adult trio bred again, so i'm partially raising the tadpoles, and once the weather settles down, EVERYTHING will be released back into the wild. (the adult trio, the 6 juvies and the tadpoles)

I have a MFF trio of common toads and next year intend to try & breed those, and if successfull will release the offspring (except a couple)

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## Gail

I love it when people raise them from tadpoles. Since the mortality rate of tads and morphs is so high they need any help they can get to increase the population. Last year I raised 46 Cope's from tads and released all but 2, and the 2 that I tend to are happy and healthy. I remember as a kid I would be able to find frogs and toads in great numbers, but not anymore. It's very sad and I'm guessing it's the same all around the world.

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## REDDEV1L

For anyone interested here's a short video of me releasing my 6 rana temporaria froglets (10 months old when released yesterday and they were big for their age)
I released the tadpoles too, but am keeping the adults back a little while longer (Afterall they've already spawned... there's no rush to release them!!)

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## John Clare

Just a note on releasing things.  Since you have so many exotic amphibians, it's highly likely that some of the pathogens (nasty organisms and diseases) being carried by the exotic ones are making it to the native ones that you are collecting and releasing.  That's not a healthy situation.  In some countries it's illegal to release back into the wild, because of this very problem.

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## Gail

John, are you talking about non-native species?  If so, I hope people are keeping the species separated, and also releasing only natives.

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## Autumn

> John, are you talking about non-native species? If so, I hope people are keeping the species separated, and also releasing only natives.



I understand what John is saying....here in Alaska it is illegal to capture native amphibians and them release them back into the wild after keeping them in captivity. You must treat the amphibians as biological waste....

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## Martin

> John, are you talking about non-native species?  If so, I hope people are keeping the species separated, and also releasing only natives.


He's talking about both native and non-native. An individual person releasing (native) amphibians is potentionally a much worse crime against nature than collecting a few and keeping then until they die. Does not matter that much if they live in seperated enclosures or not, because that's not garantee of not spreading pathogens. 
According to some articlea I've read, at least some scientiests belive that one of the problens with chytrid and its global prescence is that people have released native species they've kept, after they've been exposed to chytrid via theie more exotics pets.

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## Gail

I guess I just don’t understand how captive, native amphibians can have pathogens that are bad, yet still be healthy and should not be release back from where they came from.  Example:  I have 14 toad tadpoles in hopes of having a few females to keep, then letting the others go (not for breeding purpose).  I also have Cope’s Grays raised from tads last year, and 2 Fowler’s toads, raised from toadlets last year.  So releasing any of these would be bad for the population?

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## REDDEV1L

Yup, I totally agree with you John.
That's why I keep everything seperate. The only thing they share with my 'collection' is food from the same sources.
The frogs are kept in the garage, all my exotics kept in my room upstairs.
All utensils (forceps, paintbrushes, sponges, basters, dusting tubs etc) are tank specific apart from the dusting tub was shared downstairs between the adult frogs, their offspring and two of my native toads (who live in the kitchen at the moment) who came from the same pond as the frogs.
The only downside to my set-up is the food is kept upstairs in my room but I expect I do alot more to stop contamination that some others.
(I even have disposable nitrile gloves which I use for single tank use only when cleaning out waterbowls and handling if needs be)

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## FROGHUNTER

I personally find no problem with taking adult animals out of the wild, especially during breeding season when they are easier to nab up.  :AR15: 
I usually just find the biggest and loudest ones i can, lighter throat ones and peacefully use them to fill my belly.  :Highly Amused: 
God put animals on this earth to eat. i just see it as controlling or "limiting" the population so that we dont have an overrun of frogs in the near future.

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## S13

> I personally find no problem with taking adult animals out of the wild, especially during breeding season when they are easier to nab up. 
> I usually just find the biggest and loudest ones i can, lighter throat ones and peacefully use them to fill my belly. 
> God put animals on this earth to eat. i just see it as controlling or "limiting" the population so that we dont have an overrun of frogs in the near future.


So you created an account just to make this homerun of a comment?  :Big Applause:

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## Autumn

> I personally find no problem with taking adult animals out of the wild, especially during breeding season when they are easier to nab up. 
> I usually just find the biggest and loudest ones i can, lighter throat ones and peacefully use them to fill my belly. 
> God put animals on this earth to eat. i just see it as controlling or "limiting" the population so that we dont have an overrun of frogs in the near future.


Well ya don't go about eating FROGS!!!!! Especially when they are facing a world crisis here!!!! And that seems sooo mean!
Ah, you've got me worked up....I'm going to keep my mouth shut, for now.

I don't know, maybe I'm just sensitive.....

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## Autumn

Was I too harsh with my words?
I don't usually lash out like this.....sorry

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## S13

> Was I too harsh with my words?
> I don't usually lash out like this.....sorry


Pretty sure the guy was just trolling, it was the worst troll attempt I have ever witnessed though. I wouldn't pay too much attention to him lol.

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## Autumn

> Pretty sure the guy was just trolling, it was the worst troll attempt I have ever witnessed though. I wouldn't pay too much attention to him lol.


Oh, hahahaha ok!  :Wink:  

I must be a little tempermental after being stuck in bed for a few days, trying to fight off this darn cold! :Fight me!:

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## Martin

> Well ya don't go about eating FROGS!!!!! Especially when they are facing a world crisis here!!!! And that seems sooo mean!
> Ah, you've got me worked up....I'm going to keep my mouth shut, for now.
> 
> I don't know, maybe I'm just sensitive.....


  There's nothing bad by default to eat frogs, they're animals and edible like many other animals. However, it's a matter of perspective and how one does it, not to mention global commerce/private consumption. For example, a private person hunting and eating some American bullfrogs are actually helping the decline of some amphibians, since they're a very invasive species in many part of US, where they eat both the food of other frogs, and other frogs.  However, let's leave that specific topic to this thread, which actually deals with the eating or non-eating of frogs.

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## matt palm

[QUOTE=FROGHUNTER;110374]I personally find no problem with taking adult animals out of the wild, especially during breeding season when they are easier to nab up.  :AR15: 
I usually just find the biggest and loudest ones i can, lighter throat ones and peacefully use them to fill my belly.  :Highly Amused: 
God put animals on this earth to eat. i just see it as controlling or "limiting" the population so that we dont have an overrun of frogs in the near future.[/QUOTE

not cool bro

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## FROGHUNTER

Im sorry im not ill in the brain and keep my frogs like theyre children and S$@%

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## S13

lol, idiot... Go troll some where else.

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## matt palm

trolling is for facebook not forums...

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## Fae

Lol...

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## Gail

Guys, pay no attention to the butt head in the corner and just ignore “it” and the posts “it” put on the form. “It” feels the need for attention.

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## Gail

Ok, back to the topic at hand.  Can someone please explain the whole pathogens things with natives to me?


> I guess I just dont understand how captive, native amphibians can have pathogens that are bad, yet still be healthy and should not be release back from where they came from. Example: I have 14 toad tadpoles in hopes of having a few females to keep, then letting the others go (not for breeding purpose). I also have Copes Grays raised from tads last year, and 2 Fowlers toads, raised from toadlets last year. So releasing any of these would be bad for the population?

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## Brian

> I guess I just dont understand how captive, native amphibians can have pathogens that are bad, yet still be healthy and should not be release back from where they came from.  Example:  I have 14 toad tadpoles in hopes of having a few females to keep, then letting the others go (not for breeding purpose).  I also have Copes Grays raised from tads last year, and 2 Fowlers toads, raised from toadlets last year.  So releasing any of these would be bad for the population?


Consider a pacific chorus frog. You could collect from a disease free and healthy population. It gets exposed to chytrid from your Xenopus despite taking precautions. The chorus frog is visibly fine and can handle this. You release later back where you found it. Blammo. 

This is how I understand it anyways. I don't know how many diseases out that can be spread around like this. Since I don't know, it's not something I would personally take a risk on.

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## Brian

> There's nothing bad by default to eat frogs, they're animals and edible like many other animals. However, it's a matter of perspective and how one does it, not to mention global commerce/private consumption. For example, a private person hunting and eating some American bullfrogs are actually helping the decline of some amphibians, since they're a very invasive species in many part of US, where they eat both the food of other frogs, and other frogs.  However, let's leave that specific topic to this thread, which actually deals with the eating or non-eating of frogs.


The same logic applies to collecting amphibians :Smile: . Naturalists shouldn't argue if you take adults from an invasive species out of the wild breeding population.

This doesn't just apply to invasive species though. Sustainable collection form healthy and abundant native populations is certainly possible.

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## Martin

> The same logic applies to collecting amphibians. Naturalists shouldn't argue if you take adults from an invasive species out of the wild breeding population.
> 
> This doesn't just apply to invasive species though. Sustainable collection form healthy and abundant native populations is certainly possible.


Never said that it doesn't apply to collecting, did I?  :Smile: 

However, I personally feel that it's unnecessary to collect from the wild when there's a CB population available. Not to mention that it's illegal in some countries not only to collect, but to even keep WC animals, no matter how abundant they are (like it is in Sweden).

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## Brian

> Never said that it doesn't apply to collecting, did I?


Nope- just agreeing with you and explicitly expanding :Smile: 




> However, I personally feel that it's unnecessary to collect from the wild when there's a CB population available. Not to mention that it's illegal in some countries not only to collect, but to even keep WC animals, no matter how abundant they are (like it is in Sweden).


Oh yea, definitely follow the laws. I'd agree about CB if they're available. If there are abundant local wild populations I would want some convincing proof that someone selling CB specimens is actually selling CB specimens. :Wink: 

So, what happens to a kid who brings home a wild caught frog in Sweden? This would be illegal? Is it something that happens there?  I'm genuinely curious if there's a different cultural attitude towards molesting amphibians in Sweden. Capturing frogs in buckets seems to be commonly accepted as something kids do here. The legality of it depends on the frog and province.

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## Kristen

> Not to mention that it's illegal in some countries not only to collect, but to even keep WC animals, no matter how abundant they are (like it is in Sweden).


It's like that here too (but they have different laws for different states of Australia)  :Smile:

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## Martin

> Nope- just agreeing with you and explicitly expanding


Oh, sorry. I read it as you were disagreeing with me, my mistake.




> Oh yea, definitely follow the laws. I'd agree about CB if they're available. If there are abundant local wild populations I would want some convincing proof that someone selling CB specimens is actually selling CB specimens.


Yes, that's a problem in the hobby (in countries where it's acceptable to keep and capture wild specimens). When there's WC readily available, people don't "need" to start breeding them on their own (since it's worse financially).




> So, what happens to a kid who brings home a wild caught frog in Sweden? This would be illegal? Is it something that happens there?  I'm genuinely curious if there's a different cultural attitude towards molesting amphibians in Sweden. Capturing frogs in buckets seems to be commonly accepted as something kids do here. The legality of it depends on the frog and province.


Since we don't have frog cops running around checking every kids room if there's some frogs there, it's hard to actually do something about, but yes, it is illegal and they're all protected by law (and this applies to every lizard (3 species), snakes (3 species), frog/toad (11 species) and salamander (2 species) we have here). With some of the of non-threatend species as _Rana temporaria_, you're allowed to collect tadpoles and raise them, as long as you release them as soon as they're getting legs (and they should be returned to the same location as you collected them), which I personally do at summer when we're at our cabin (with an outdoor "enclosure", with interior only collected from the lake I took them, and hundreds of kilometers away from my own exotic, possible pathogen-carrying frogs  :Wink: ). 

About the cultural difference, this is something that I actually found quite absurd when I first encountered the American frog-hobby. As far as I'm understanding, it's not that uncommon to collect frogs as pets, even for experience, longtime herpers. This is something that's very uncommon here (at least for herpers, I'm sure some kids collect frogs and keep them), and not generally accepted. And since you can't keep WC, the few herp expos we have here have all banned WC animals (ie. you are not allowed to sell WC at all, and you therefore need papers to prove that the animals are CB).

One of the reasons even the non-threatend species like _R. temporaria_ is protected is because of the frogs that are living on the edge of extinction. In order to eliminate the chance of someone collecting (or killing) a _Bufo viridis_(for example) under the impression that it's a common frog, they just protected them all instead.

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## REDDEV1L

Apparently my last post was enough to be branded a -1 reputation and called an idiot.

Well, if i'm an idiot for trying to ensure there's as little as possible cross-contamination between my tanks individually and frogs i'm going to release then SPANK MY @SS AND CALL ME AN IDIOT  :Stupid:

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## S13

> Apparently my last post was enough to be branded a -1 reputation and called an idiot.
> 
> Well, if i'm an idiot for trying to ensure there's as little as possible cross-contamination between my tanks individually and frogs i'm going to release then SPANK MY @SS AND CALL ME AN IDIOT


I would imagine who ever did this misclicked and was trying to negative rep the FROGHUNTER tard that came in here trolling.  That's about the only logical explanation that I can come up with.

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