# Frogs & Toads > Pacman Frogs >  Pixie passed way !

## froghub

Guys, my frog died today. I dunno want happened. He wasnt moving and then i turned him arround he had the red legs(i checked him often, first time i saw that) and he wasnt able to turn, no response in either of the legs He died  :Frown: 
Poor guy. What did i do wrong??

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## Cory

Hey sorry for your loss. He was still a baby so I really don’t think it was anything you did, he could have been ill when you purchased him and this may have been why he was reluctant to eat. Or it could have been just bad genetics if that’s the proper word. If you end up getting another I would advise to have the tank setup and the heat and humidity in check before bringing it home. They need a couple of days usually with no interaction to settle in so it’s always good to have the setup running already so he can be left alone. Not saying this was the reason he passed but if frog is already ill the added stress of fiddling around in his enclosure will stress him and when they get stressed it lowers there immune system big time, this lets what ever he sick with take over him faster. Again sorry for the loss.

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Cliygh and Mia 2, daybr4ke

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## froghub

> Hey sorry for your loss. He was still a baby so I really don’t think it was anything you did, he could have been ill when you purchased him and this may have been why he was reluctant to eat. Or it could have been just bad genetics if that’s the proper word. If you end up getting another I would advise to have the tank setup and the heat and humidity in check before bringing it home. They need a couple of days usually with no interaction to settle in so it’s always good to have the setup running already so he can be left alone. Not saying this was the reason he passed but if frog is already ill the added stress of fiddling around in his enclosure will stress him and when they get stressed it lowers there immune system big time, this lets what ever he sick with take over him faster. Again sorry for the loss.


Thanks Monster, 
I already have the new terrarium set properly; I'm thinking of getting a new one, yet not sure if i should buy from the same shop. They have a lot now. What should i look before buying the frog monster?
Another thing, can it be the size of the crickets? Althought he seems to eat them well, they might be too large?
But i guess that would not kill him. I would believe he was already sick and he didn't eat because of it...
I'm thinking of getting an Ornata next.
It's kinda of sad cause the little bugger was doing better and eating already. And i kinda feel i did something wrong. Poor guy.

PS: since i'm not getting an albino this time, should i get a uvb lamp or not?

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## Cory

Look for a frog that looks alert and doesn't have shed or anything stuck to him. I would ask to hold the frog, if it doesn't try to get away from you and just sits there that could be a sign theres something wrong. If the frog is just sitting in the water bowl I would ask if this is normal for the frog also, if it sits in the bowl all the time this would also be a indicator that it is sick. I would ask them to feed the frog for you to see how he reacts to the food, again if it doesn't at least catch his attention I wouldn't purchase it, when these frogs are babies they have one thing on there mind and that is food. I would also ask were they purchase the frogs from and do some googling to see if you can get any feed back on the seller/breeder. 
  The crickets were pretty big for the frog but I don't think that is what made him pass, if he was pooping them he was digesting them and you were giving days off inbetween feedings. Generally the rule with feeders is no thicker then the distance between his eyes and no longer then half the body length, this is really good to follow when they are babies and juveniles to be safe. Usually when they are adults they can handle something a little bigger, people feed fuzzies and they can take them no problem. 
  For the uvb it wont hurt them but it isn't needed, these frogs are adjusted to calcium metabolism with out uvb and in the wild when the sun comes out they pretty much burrow down or sit under leaves etc. and this what the vitamins are for. A good vitamin to get is Repashy calcium plus, it has all the vitamins you need in one. But again Uvb will not kill them and could have some benefits.

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Cory

And just in case you didn't know, when buying an Ornata make sure to look and see if it has false eye spots. These are 2 little black dots on the back of each eye, this is garunteed way to tell if it is one.

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## Xavier

Hey, sorry about your loss, it is always very difficult to lose a loved one, including animals. I do think he was being cared for properly if that's any condolence. If you did get it from a pet-store, it likely did have something before you acquired it, and there was nothing to be done about that really. Again, sorry for your loss, we will be here to help you whenever you get your next frog species! (I myself am considering an Ornate horned frog, so great minds think alike  :Wink: )

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monster

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## froghub

Thanks for the kind words guys!
I'll be looking for the ornata after tomorrow. New terrarium is ready, but i'll get another plastic container cause i feel that one was Pixies, i will trow it away.
New terrarium:

It's an 18x18x18.

Btw i was changing the substrat every week with pixies, and cleaning the plastic box each time, either with bleach or ammonia. For sure i rinse it very well after. Do you guys think it's better to get some reptile safe cleaner?
I understand that the red legs are like bacteria and stuff, but i cleaned the guy often so i guess he arrived like that. Btw i cleaned is plastic container but the terrarium itself, since it had no substrate i did not clean it for a while, maybe i did rinse it two times in two months. But i guess this could not be the cause.
Maybe he already arrived like that and thats why he didnt eat.

Ps: I use ecoearth, lets say if i make one brick and store it for a month, is it considered clean of bacteria if it's dry? Cause usually the stuff don't dry quickly, and i kinda don't want the substrat to be water.

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Cory

All my guys have pinkish legs from time to time from rubbing against the glass when they burrow or from moving across the substrate. When my first one ever passed from edema I remember her legs and belly went redder then usual, I don't think your frog had redleg. For the cleaning I will be honest and others may disagree but I only do a major disinfect about once every 3 months, before that I  just do a super hot rinse and that's it. If your frog isn't sick and your changing out the substrate once a month or every 3 weeks you shouldn't have a bunch of bacteria living in there. A really good product is Zoo Med Wipeout, this is what I use to disinfect. For the substrate being wet, your supposed to squeeze out most the water so there is really no reason to leave it out to totally dry. A good rule is you want the substrate to clump in your hand when squeezed but not dripping water, this is what they need and it helps with the humidity.

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## froghub

> All my guys have pinkish legs from time to time from rubbing against the glass when they burrow or from moving across the substrate. When my first one ever passed from edema I remember her legs and belly went redder then usual, I don't think your frog had redleg. For the cleaning I will be honest and others may disagree but I only do a major disinfect about once every 3 months, before that I  just do a super hot rinse and that's it. If your frog isn't sick and your changing out the substrate once a month or every 3 weeks you shouldn't have a bunch of bacteria living in there. A really good product is Zoo Med Wipeout, this is what I use to disinfect. For the substrate being wet, your supposed to squeeze out most the water so there is really no reason to leave it out to totally dry. A good rule is you want the substrate to clump in your hand when squeezed but not dripping water, this is what they need and it helps with the humidity.


 Thanks for the answer bro, will do that next time instead of letting it dry, but for the red leds, his belly and legs where all red, and he didnt moved them anymore, he wasnt able to move them at all. Then i noticed, i tried to help him by putting him in a paper towel spot but too late, he just stopped breathing and he was clearly dead, he did not turn arround anymore. I left him there for a while but i was already sure he was dead...

Seen that he ate ecoearth two or three times, is it possible that could cause some impaction and kill him Monster ?
Its been a while, but he did ate some.

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Cory

Red leg is usually accompanied by sores on the legs they will spend a lot of time in there water, and they usually become very lethargic from what I’ve heard and read. I have never had a frog die of red leg so I can’t speak from first hand experience. If you were cleaning and disenfecting that often the red leg shouldn’t have came from your tank. If it was redleg I imagine he may have got it from the store, once they got it even if you take and do all the things to make them better they still end up passing most the time. Once they have it in my eyes it’s hard to get rid of, it’s very unforgiving. For the coconut fibre he could have became impacted but agin usually with impaction they wouldn’t die that fast I don’t think, he would have to become septic from not going poop. Or if it was really bad it could have tore the lining of the stomach or intestine and would have leaked out which would have killed him but I dont think is what happened. Coconut fibre is made and meant for if the frog ingests it that he can pass it. I think the frog more then likely was just I’ll or as I mentioned had very bad genetics.

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## froghub

Okay, thanks Monster.
I'm thinking of getting a new guy, two days in the offset and then feed him.
But my terrarium seems to hold heat very well, i can't really have a cold side?
If hot is at 28°C cold would be at 26,9°C. Is that enought?
I guess he would burrow to cool off?
Another thing, water bowl in cold or hot side? I normally put it in the middle but now i can't

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## Cory

Having a cool side is good this way he can thermoregulate his body temps. My tanks are 82f on the warm and 79f on the cool, I know it doesn't seem like much but it makes a difference to them. If that's all he you get though they also burrow to do the same thing, all my guys spend more time burrowed on the cool side most the time. For the water bowl I do the same as you and put it right smack dab in the middle, this way when they cross from side to side they have no choice to go through the water. The will usually stop and sit for awhile once they hit it too, or they will take a huge dump in it for me to clean. For placing it I would place it on the cool side or closer to the cool side if possible, but to be honest some place on it the cool end and some on the warm.

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## froghub

Thanks for the answer Monster, so with the door open i only have a difference of 1,2°C , but the plastic container inside plays a role in this insulation... The full terrarium has a difference of the same about you, but i can't manage that with the plastic box for the babies.
Tomorrow i will get a juvenile that i saw today at the pet shop. I did not like the looks of the ornata, and this one is bigger already.
Whats the correct procedure to adopt?
2 days without eating when he arrives?

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## Cory

I would ask them when the last he ate was, if it was the day before I would just leave him. Juveniles are only supposed to eat every other day to every third day. They will eat bigger meals so they need at least one day in between feedings to digest. If he hasnt eaten in a couple days there is no harm in offering him food but thats all interaction he should get for the first couple days, if he doesnt eat dont stress he is just settling in to his new surroundings. Ask them when he pooped last too, if he hasnt went in awhile after giving him a few days to destress you could give him a a warm bath to see if he goes before feeding him.

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## froghub

> I would ask them when the last he ate was, if it was the day before I would just leave him. Juveniles are only supposed to eat every other day to every third day. They will eat bigger meals so they need at least one day in between feedings to digest. If he hasn’t eaten in a couple days there is no harm in offering him food but that’s all interaction he should get for the first couple days, if he doesn’t eat don’t stress he is just settling in to his new surroundings. Ask them when he pooped last too, if he hasn’t went in awhile after giving him a few days to destress you could give him a a warm bath to see if he goes before feeding him.


Thanks pall, will do   Now, when you mean don't stress him, i guess i will change the water  and everything still as long as the frog isn't in the way? Or should i  not touch the water for those few days?
He comes from the US, captivity breed and is a regular green hornated frog.
As i mentioned, i didn't like the way the ornata looks, too much of a baby, smaller than the last one.
I called him to reserve me the green big one. Althought they're in 20cms water containers, not sure if it's normal.
The small box i got this time is 38cmsx29cmsx15cm, a little bigger than the last one, i guess it should be fine since he's bigger? He has the same kind of setup, but a little bit more space to move. Water in the cold side and the ecoearth is in place.
I'll give you some news tomorrow when i get the new guy  :Smile:

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## Cory

Ya change the water like you would normally do, what I mean by don’t stress him is after he,s in the enclosure just leave him be. Don’t be hanging around and checking on him every half hour, and if he doesn’t want to eat for the first few days don’t stress and think you have to keep trying till does eat. Not saying this is what you will do but this what people mean by don’t stress the frog out. Some people try to keep them in just water but it’s not good for there back legs, after a while they end up haveing serious issues with the legs. I even seen on an old thread That a breeder from the US even said that it isn’t recommended to keep them that way.

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## froghub

Okay so, Pixie used to hang a lot in the water. Not sure why, but he went to the pool a lot.
Maybe cause the guys kept them in water. Who knows.
Maybe the legs not working and being red were a cause from that.
Lets see this ones. At least i'm sure they arrived no longer than one week ago. I went for cricket and there were 0 pacman frogs last week. Now they have at least 20. I hope he'll do better.
Thanks Monster i'll keep you informed when i get the big guy tomorrow.
About the hot and cold sides, should i get a mini fan in the cool side maybe?
Cause i feel the diference of 1,2°C is not a lot for those guys.
About the hidding spot is in the hot side, and the pool is in the cold side this time.
Ps: When you spray the terrarium, do you spray the frog himself normally or just the substrate? I try to avoid the frog, but not sure of this.

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## Cory

If you put a fan you may lose heat on the warm side to, and you will fight with humidity I would think. When you spray the tank don't spray him directly because he will more then likely not like that very much. When spraying you don't even need to spray the substrate everytime, just if it feels or is starting to look dry. I usually just spray the plants and the walls and the substrate every couple days. Towards the end of the month you may have to spray the ground a little more often but that's also a good sign its time for a substrate change. If you spray the ground everytime you mist you will end up with soaking wet substrate within no time at all. Remember you just want the substrate damp not dripping wet.

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## froghub

Alright, got the idea  :Smile:  i guess he'll have to borrow, one side is at 81F and the other 79F/78F the plastic box retains a lot of heat.
For the treated water, how do you guys do? I usually treat a bottle with reptisafe and then stock it for one month or so. Is it fine to do?
I know i'm kinda of a pain in the *** but i need to have those technical questions answered  :Big Grin: 
How many frogs do you have in total btw? :O
Thanks Monster.

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## Cory

If you can get that warm side up another degree or 2 that would be good but 81f isn't bad so if you cant don't stress, it should be good enough. The reptisafe works almost instantly, I wait about ten minutes before it adding to the substrate and I don't think you even have to wait that long. I just like to be sure when it comes to water. I have 4 frogs all Horned frogs at the moment, I have a male Green Cranwelli and a female Albino Cranwelli and a male and female Ornate. My female Cranwelli is the biggest and she's just a little bigger then 4 3/4 inches and she is mean and grumpy. I will add another 2 to my collection if I can find the ones I want and then that's it, as I mentioned before they are 2 of the rarer kinds so I may be waiting awhile but I specifically want those and nothing else. And don't worry about the questions your not a pain at all, that's what the forum is here for.

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## froghub

I surely can but the thing is i've 3 thermometers saying that there's 83F when the new thermostat i got now is 81F. So i don't kinda know which one is lying here, i'm testing it out with another thermometer tomorrow ahahah and the two ones which have the right temperatures win.
I guess the thermostat, but tomorrow will check before bringing the new guy home.
The problem with reptisafe is the quantity for a little quantity of water as in the pool. I usually add more than supposed then i stock a bottle and change it, cause my pool takes about 
250ml and i can't out the exact two drops in there, and i find it safer anyway, do you believe that reptisafe stops working after a while, or when the water is dechlorinated it stays that way?
Thanks again  :Big Grin:

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## Cory

If you got a good brand thermostat I would trust the thermostat, especially if your taking the readings from the same spot were its saying 83f. But 83 isn't bad either but I do think the thermostat is correct, I find thermometers are usually always off by a degree or too. I use zoo med hygrotherms for all my tanks and I trust them a lot so to be honest I don't even keep thermometers in my tanks, I have one that I will throw in there everyone once in awhile just to see the difference and its usually always off by a degree or 2 and I also have an infrared that I check with every once in awhile but that's more for my bearded dragon.  To be honest the ones I find the most accurate if you really want to see is one of those glass ones you use for fish tanks, place it right beside the probe to the thermostat and that will tell you for sure, I used to have one and it was always the exact as the thermostat but I dropped it and it broke. And you don't want to keep it in there its just more to check every once in awhile to see if your thermostat is still working up to par. For the reptisafe I have a huge jug of it that I just refill my small bottle with and I have it for over a year now and it seems to still be working because my frogs are good and healthy. And when the water is declorinated yes it would stay that way unless you added something into yourself.

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## froghub

Okay, you were right about trusting the thermostat too.  :Smile:  Anyway i've a laser one that is comming, so i'll check that out too.
Soooooo new guy is home.
He ate three crickets and a lot of ecoearth, he was chasing four more but no joy, only got ecoearth after the first three.
So two medium and one big one, not sure if its enought for a juvenile. Anyway he gave up and burrowed deep into the substrate.
I helped with the tongs for the big one, he was hungry and not afraid, after i tried again but he kinda backed up and went chasing another one but only ecoearth.
Maybe i try some dubias since they're bigger then crickets?
Now i guess i'll try again after tomorrow ?
I'll try to make the ecoearth more compressed so he doesn't eat all of it at least in the area i put the crickets in lol.
I wasnt able to know when he popped, but he didnt seem to have a lot in his stomach, now he's much rounder as he should be.
Now eating a little bit of ecoearth should not be a problem for a juvenile as long as he poops right?
And he disappear under the substrate, he'll come back up on its own when is hungry i hope!
This enclosure sees about the right size for now, but when should i put him in the big one?
Thanks guys

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## Cory

Hey glad to hear this guy doing better already, if he took one from the tongs next time you feed I wouldn't just let the crickets go and try to feed them by the tongs. All though eco earth can be passed you don't want him eating to much of it, you don't want him to become impacted from it and you don't want him filling up on eco earth and then not wanting to eat his bugs. Even though eco earth is made to be able to pass sometimes if they eat large amounts it will give him a mild impaction, but nothing a good old honey bath cant take care of. I would try the roaches, from what I have heard they are better then crickets nutrition wise. And if he's a juvenile I would get some nightcrawlers ( big worms) and feed him those, if they are really long you can cut them in half. Once you feed nightcrawlers you will notice his growth rate will really speed up. He should come back up on his own, if he doesn't for a day or 2 I wouldn't worry to much because this is his way of making himself feel secure. After lets say 2 days if he doesn't then I would unbury him to check on him. Once you know he's doing ok and he's grown abit you should be able to put him in his permanent home, I would give a month tops. If he keeps eating he will grow a lot within a month. A little trick when tong feeding is to rub the food item under his bottom lip, this triggers there feeding response most the time and once he's eaten one they usually keep going.

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## froghub

Will try that for sure!
But for the nightcrawlers, we don't have them in europe, only the littles ones(European Nightcrawlers; _Dendrobeanna veneta_). Not as big as yours. But i'll try to find the big ones.
I'll bait him out of the hole with some crickets running arround and them try to tong feed him.
I believe that he did not eat as much as that, but i'll make sure i'll be paying attention to poop, otherwise i'll give him a bath. How often should he poop? Once in two days?
In the mean time, if he refuses to eat by tongs, a container without ecoearth is fine too as i did before?
Should i put something under the container? Or clean plastic is just fine?
Meet Trixie!
Took this one on arrival:

The new family member, and yes he's bigger that it looks outside  :Big Grin: 
Thanks Monster  :Big Grin:

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Cory

He’s a very nice green. He should poop every few days to once a week, depends on how fast his metabolism is. If you feed in a separate container it doesn’t matter if the bottom is dark or not he can still see them. If he seems to not like the container you can try tapping some dark paper around the outside so he can’t see out this may help. In all honesty though tong feeding is the best way to feed, you know he’s eating and you know he’s getting his vitamins, sometimes the feeders clean the vitamins off before the frog gets a chance to eat them. If he doesn’t take from the tongs right away don’t get discouraged and keep trying, he will eventually get the idea they mean good and they won’t hurt him

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## froghub

> Hes a very nice green. He should poop every few days to once a week, depends on how fast his metabolism is. If you feed in a separate container it doesnt matter if the bottom is dark or not he can still see them. If he seems to not like the container you can try tapping some dark paper around the outside so he cant see out this may help. In all honesty though tong feeding is the best way to feed, you know hes eating and you know hes getting his vitamins, sometimes the feeders clean the vitamins off before the frog gets a chance to eat them. If he doesnt take from the tongs right away dont get discouraged and keep trying, he will eventually get the idea they mean good and they wont hurt him


Okayyyy, so good news.
He doesn't refuse tongs at all. I tong fed him two crickets and he has eaten no problem at all  :Big Grin: 
Then he borrowed deep i understood he was full already.
So this morning he was out and he looked like he wanted to eat, so i fed him arround the same time as yesterday, he took them no problem.
Tomorrow i'll give him a break, yesterday i gave him multivitamins today calcium, tomorrow is off for digestion and after i shall try to feed him again!
Ahahah great Monster! This guy has a lot of appetite and thats good  :Big Grin: 
Thanks  :Big Grin:

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monster

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## Cory

Thats awesome, glad to hear this one is already doing better. I really believe the other guy was sick when you got him. Thats good hes eating from the tongs, now you know that he wont ingest the substrate and that he will get his vitamins. As you mentioned make sure you give him a day off in between feedings to digest and you dont want him to become over weight as weird as that sounds for a frog that is as wide as he is long. Sounds like everything is going to work out for you this time around. If you can get your hands on some Repashy Calcium Plus I would pick some up, it is a far better vitamin supplement then a lot of the others out there and as I mentioned it has all the vitamins in one.

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## froghub

I will make sure of that, right know he's just filling the loosy belly he had, now at least he's round either he pooped before he came or they didnt fed him enought food. Anyway the meat in the belly was there, just not round i guess. But yes i'll be carefull.
Well i found the repashy calcium plus, its a little bit expensive but its fine, i'll order some later, but it is all in one?
Right now i'm using reptivite multivitamins +D3 and calcium without D3 by zoomed.
So if i use the repashy it's a all in one thats it? No need for calcium+ multivitamins ?
How many times do you powder insects with it?
And btw, is there such thing as too many vitamins or will they poop the excess? Or can too much powder be harmfull?
Thanks Monster  :Smile:

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## Cory

Yep its all in one, I even called Repashy to make sure and they informed me that yes if you use this there is no need for any other vitamin. If you wanted you could even call them and they would be more then happy to answer any questions you have, most companies have no problem explaining how there products work and are more then happy to answer your questions. The Reptivite one your using at the moment actually is a better product also but I'm not to sure about the Zoo Med one. The Repashy is a bit expensive buts its because its such a good product. Yes you can give to much vitamins but just keep a good schedule and don't over do it, Repashy says on the bottle to use with every insect feed. When my guys were smaller and ate more often though I still gave them a day off from vitamins, and they are all big and healthy adults now. I will try to get some pictures of my guys in the next couple days and post them.

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## froghub

> Yep its all in one, I even called Repashy to make sure and they informed me that yes if you use this there is no need for any other vitamin. If you wanted you could even call them and they would be more then happy to answer any questions you have, most companies have no problem explaining how there products work and are more then happy to answer your questions. The Reptivite one your using at the moment actually is a better product also but I'm not to sure about the Zoo Med one. The Repashy is a bit expensive buts its because its such a good product. Yes you can give to much vitamins but just keep a good schedule and don't over do it, Repashy says on the bottle to use with every insect feed. When my guys were smaller and ate more often though I still gave them a day off from vitamins, and they are all big and healthy adults now. I will try to get some pictures of my guys in the next couple days and post them.


Would love to see your guys!
So actually the most common is exoterra, but i'm not sure about the quality. Zoomed usually is not bad but i'm no expert, to me it seems complet, i'll add a picture:



Btw i'm trying to do something like:
Monday - Reptivite
Tuesday - no food
Wednesday - Calcium No D3
Thursday - no food
Friday- Calcium No D3
Saturday - no food.
Sunday -food, no vitamins.

But still not sure if monday he's gonna eat cause he ate sunday. So either only using calcium once, or using it always and the only rest he gets without vitamins will be is off food days.

And i'm not sure if multivitamins with D3 is a good idea, or if it should the inverse, calcium with D3 instead.

But i've too agree, and i'll get repashy cause it will be less of a pain in the *** to think of how many times should i give it or not and just give it everytime he's out to eat except one day.
Thanks Cory  :Big Grin:

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## Cory

Your schedule seems fine, I would do a calcium and d3 instead of multivitamins and d3 myself. For the exoterra I tried it and didn’t like it and my frogs couldn’t stand it, I think it had a bad taste to them. The Repashy even though it’s an all in one the maker Allen Repashy has it down to a science and it isn’t something he just whipped together from what I have read. He spent lots of time figuring out how to put it all one without causing harm to the animals ingesting it. But again if you better using separate your schedule is fine, the only thing I would change is I mentioned I would get a calcium and d3 instead of the multivitamin and d3.

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## froghub

Nah, i'll get the repashy instead, it's easier and cheaper than the combo after all, and if you say it's better i believe you. And one day off vitamins per week? That's a easier schedule to keep  :Big Grin:  As long as it has all the frog need, D3 calcium etc i'm good.
How many time does it lasts you normally? since i've only one frog i shall get the little one no?
Is the expiry date usually long or not?
And since there are a lot that look alike LoD version and etc, just confirm if this is the one, thanks:


Any thoughts on the pacman frog food you saw in the image? Do you believe that they have everything necessary?
Anyway i use that to feed the crickets instead ahahaha they seem to like it, and it's a gutload.
Did not try on the new frog, i guess he would eat it too.

Thanks again bro

And this thread will be the new guide for every new keeper ahahahaha  :Big Grin:

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## Cory

Yep that's the one, and to be honest I don't know much about the pacman food. I choose to feed live feeders because I believe this is what he would want over the other, and I believe you get a better feeding response from something that has natural movement over something you have to wiggle and make movement yourself. But there is people that use it and swear by it and from what I have read there is some breeders that throw it into the frogs diet. For the length of how long it lasts most keepers suggest to replace all vitamins after 6 months and to store it the fridge. I have never actually went through a full bottle before the 6 month mark so I just throw it away and get a new bottle, but I get the big one. For one frog you will only need the small bottle.

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## froghub

> Yep that's the one, and to be honest I don't know much about the pacman food. I choose to feed live feeders because I believe this is what he would want over the other, and I believe you get a better feeding response from something that has natural movement over something you have to wiggle and make movement yourself. But there is people that use it and swear by it and from what I have read there is some breeders that throw it into the frogs diet. For the length of how long it lasts most keepers suggest to replace all vitamins after 6 months and to store it the fridge. I have never actually went through a full bottle before the 6 month mark so I just throw it away and get a new bottle, but I get the big one. For one frog you will only need the small bottle.


I ordered it, so i guess when it arrives i'll not have to lose time thinking if i did put multivitamins last time or calcium ahahahah, it'll all be the same, and i read some reviews it surely seem that they are great. Thanks for the advice once again
Yeah, i might give it a go and try it soon, maybe he'll eat it and i can mix it into is diet. If he doesn't like it i'll keep using it for gutload, its still less expensive than cricket food.
I might wanna think on starting a dubia colony or something, i believe that insects will become expensive when he eats a box in one day ahahaha.
Next i'll get some dubias and see how he does

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## Cory

The Dubai’s are better then crickets and I imagine he will love them, most Pacmans and other frogs that can eat them seem to love them. Us Canadians can’t get them or I would use them for sure, they don’t smell half as bad crickets and from what I have read and heard they are very easy to cultivate. Cultivating them would be the way to go especially if you plan to get more in the future, and it saves you money like you mentioned and saves on trips to the store. My main staple is Nightcrawlers so I just buy a whole whack of them at the start of the month, dump them into one big container and keep them in the fridge. And then I throw in things like hornworms, silkworms, butter worms etc for treats. And I will give a fuzzy once a month to every 2 months because they really like those. If you can get your hands on some hornworms give him a couple of those and he will love you for it, my guys go nuts for them. Just don’t give them to often because they are high in fat and water content.

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froghub

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## Bryce

Very sorry about Pixie, froghub. I'm glad your new frog is doing well.
I have a dubia colony, and can attest to them being a good feeder. They are easy to raise and have no noticable smell, and grow large enough to be significant morsels for large frogs like a Pacman or an African Bullfrog. They are not perfect however. They are quick to burrow and take a while to get started, but there are ways to work around these issues. Some people just crush the dubia's head before feeding. Since the frog eats from tongs you can just give feed them that way and avoid them burrowing altogether. To get the colony going relatively quick you have to buy new adults every so often for a while after starting it. Once they get going there's tons though.
I havent got a pacman right now, but I do have an African Bullfrog. He gets plenty of roaches, near adult roaches fill him up pretty fast. That's one great thing about Dubias, they start out small enough to feed to smaller frogs, then grow big enough to be a good size for a huge frog.

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froghub, monster

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## froghub

Thanks Bryce, thanks Cory  :Smile: 
I'll get a container and some egg crates i guess ahahah, not sure if my girlfriend will be happy having dubias arround but we'll see.
News guy borrows at night, gets out at morning like a clock  :Big Grin: 
Today i did not feed him, he did not poop, i'll try to feed him tomorrow, if no poop i'll give him a honey bath if thats sound good?
About the threat section, hornworms are not easy to get in France. What other threats may i give him?  :Smile: 
And do you believe he has the size for a pinkie?? Should i give it alive or frozen?? He's about 1.9inches already, if not pinkie i shall get some dubias!
I love to see this guy eating ahahah.
He was outside today, i went changing the water and spray him since i saw substrat was dry, he borrowed a little and stayed there ahaha so cool, he wasnt too stressed he just hide like saying you can't see me this way.
They're rather smart.
So about the uvb, i've a 1,5w led which is soft, but i was thinking of adding a 13w 2.0 UVB lamp to the setup. Like 2h a day only. Would that be good for the frog?
Thanks gentlemen

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## Bryce

Wax worms and silk worms are good alternatives to hornworms for treats. They're high in fat just like hornworms, though. Some people give them a live pinkie or two before feeding frozen so they recognize the shape. Personally I just feed my frogs live pinkies.

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## Cory

If you have the uvb light inside the enclosure it may be good enough but if it’s on top you will at least a 5.0, the screen filters out half so the one you have would really be doing anything. And all though silkworms are high in fat they are not as bad waxworms and have way more protein so they are a better treat. If you can get Phoenix worms they are also a really good treat due to they have a lot of protein also.

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## froghub

Alright guys thanks!
Will take a look, what are the benefits of the UVB anyway? Since we already give them D3.
I've got the repashy and i tried to give him some crickets today, no joy.
Although he's round i'm not too worried, he has eaten well.
So he hate 3 crickets first day, two big crickets second day, day off, tried today no joy, did make him a honey bath yesterday and today, no poop, he seems stressed a bit. He tries to get away from the bath and he directly burrows when out.
Lets give him today off and see if he poops

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## bigdan4712

> Thanks for the kind words guys!
> I'll be looking for the ornata after tomorrow. New terrarium is ready, but i'll get another plastic container cause i feel that one was Pixies, i will trow it away.
> New terrarium:
> Attachment 78885
> It's an 18x18x18.
> 
> Btw i was changing the substrat every week with pixies, and cleaning the plastic box each time, either with bleach or ammonia. For sure i rinse it very well after. Do you guys think it's better to get some reptile safe cleaner?
> I understand that the red legs are like bacteria and stuff, but i cleaned the guy often so i guess he arrived like that. Btw i cleaned is plastic container but the terrarium itself, since it had no substrate i did not clean it for a while, maybe i did rinse it two times in two months. But i guess this could not be the cause.
> Maybe he already arrived like that and thats why he didnt eat.
> ...


We use chlorhexidine is safe for animals but any other reptile amphibians safe cleaner should work.  We dont use chlorine or ammonia based cleaners simply cause if it isnt safe for himans, it probably isnt safe for animals either.  But if u were rinsing good it wasnt your fault.  sorry for your loss.

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## froghub

> We use chlorhexidine is safe for animals but any other reptile amphibians safe cleaner should work.  We don’t use chlorine or ammonia based cleaners simply cause if it isnt safe for himans, it probably isnt safe for animals either.  But if u were rinsing good it wasnt your fault.  sorry for your loss.


Hey bro thanks for the tip. So i'm able to find this on a 4% concentration. You're actually saying that if i rub a paper towel with this i don't have to go to the trouble of washing the enclosure ?  :Embarrassment:  i want this if it's the case. Less work no?
I'm also able to found an alchoolic chlorhexidine which is 2% concentration and should evaporate faster. Which would be better? 
Thanks

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## Cory

I would give it a quick rinse just to be safe, I have never used the product but is always better to be safe then sorry. When I do a total disinfect of my tanks I use zoo med wipeout, and even though it states that you just spray it on then wipe it out I still do quick rinse just in case I missed some.

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## froghub

> I would give it a quick rinse just to be safe, I have never used the product but is always better to be safe then sorry. When I do a total disinfect of my tanks I use zoo med wipeout, and even though it states that you just spray it on then wipe it out I still do quick rinse just in case I missed some.


Thanks for the answer Monster. Yeah sure a quick rinse just to be sure i agree, but for example i'm kinda of affraid of zoomed wipeout cause by what i can see, is not that safe, you've to actually wipe it all up or rinse it by what i've read, but the chlorhexidine is actually used by us to clean the wounds(yeah i went and i saw one spray that i use often and i didn't even know it was this stuff cause it has a brand name instead lol anyway it doesn't burn at all and is very effective in wounds i.e) and we used for cats and dogs, out of all i guess this would be a good way out of ammonia or chlorine for me and actually i was reading, i'm not sure what is inside of wipeout by zoomed, but it mentions chlorine("dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride" for what i understand it has both stuffs we're affraid of inside ammonia and chloride, but i'm not sure, just looking at the names no idea if it is in a way that can't hurt the animal or whatever) does it have a smell Monster?
Does any of you use isopropyl alchool? It evaporates and it should kill bacteria, plus it's cheap?
Thanks guys

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