# General Topics > General Discussion & News > Press / News Items >  California ban on Non Native Frogs and Turtles/Tortoises

## John Clare

These are some a quotes of this thread on caudata.org.




> the  California Fish and Game Commission is considering major changes  to  Title 14 of the California Code of Regulations. For the record, that   title governs New Restricted Species Permits and Requirements.
> 
> Affected sections include: 
> A.671, which contains the list of restricted species that are unlawful   for any person to import, export, transport, maintain, dispose or use   except as authorized in a permit.
> B. 671.1, which establishes the categories of permits that allow a   person to use animals restricted by 671.
> C. 671.7, which states the Department may issue permits for animals   listed in Section 671.
> They are also creating a new Section, 703, which will contain the   restricted species permit fees and form numbers.
> 
> While the proposal talks mostly about barramundi and four options to   allow/limit their sale, it also:
> ...

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## John Clare

This is a quote of one of the replies in the same thread




> For those Californians that are  interested in doing something, here are the relevant hearing dates,  times, and locations from the document.  
> 
> *NOTICE IS GIVEN* that any person  interested may present statements, orally or in writing, relevant to  this
> action at a hearing to be held in the Resource Building Auditorium, 1416  Ninth Street, Sacramento,
> California, on Thursday, February 4, 2010 at 8:30 a.m., or as soon  thereafter as the matter may be heard.
> 
> *NOTICE IS ALSO GIVEN* that any person interested may present  statements, orally or in writing, relevant
> to this action at a hearing to be held at the Double Tree Hotel –  Ontario Airport, Ontario, California, on
> Wednesday, March 3, 2010, at 8:30 a.m., or as soon thereafter as the  matter may be heard.
> ...

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## Kurt

This sucks. So all you Californians fight for your rights. Get your butts to these hearing!

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## Kevin1

I knew these bans would spread... It's a shame too.
 I just hope it doesn't pass.

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## John Clare

Received this from USARK:




> Oppose CA Regs to Ban Frogs, Turtles and Beaded Lizards
> On Wednesday March 3rd there will be a California Fish & Game Commission meeting to discuss proposals to BAN all non native turtles and frogs, as well as severely restrict the ownership of beaded lizards. The meeting will be held in Ontario, CA. USARK has hired professional representation and will attend this meeting to defend the interests of California Herpers. The USARK delegation will include President Andrew Wyatt, Director Gary Bagnall and Senior Advisor George Osborn.
> 
> USARK and the Reptile Nation’s position on the proposed rule changes is as follows:
> 1. We appreciate CA Fish & Game and their desire to protect CA, but all of the facts have not been considered. 
> 2. To date no industry experts have testified, and no hard evidence has been submitted to justify severe regulatory changes. 
> 3. If enacted regulatory changes banning non native turtles and frogs, as well as, beaded lizards could have a serious impact on the economy of CA and result in loss of jobs. 
> 4. We request that serious consideration be given to alternative proposals prior to any rule making. 
> 5. We urge caution be used in assessing potential legal ramifications of any actions taken that would negatively impact legal commerce in captive bred turtles, frogs and beaded lizards.
> ...

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## mikeald

Some laws are meant to be broken. Why should people lose their rights and freedoms because of other peoples ignorance,stupidity, or prejudices. And governments get away with it because people don't have the money to fight these social injustices in the court system. California is so broke they are just trying to raise money. They can't afford to enforce these laws. Don't worry, it won't take too many more dumb ideas before the state collapses. And besides going undergound means no paying for permits. To all those in California who can live with in a budget and are tired of a government who can't there is life east of the Rocky Mountains(Unless you're my in-laws, you guys just stay put).

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## Kurt

The State of California is having public hearings, so people who disagree can speak up and hopefully nip this business in the bud. The reasoning behind a ban is to protect native herpefauna which are already under assault from invasive species and disease. The African clawed frog and the voracious North American bullfrog are already wreaking havoc, and the ACF is a known carrier of chytrid. California is also a hot spot for this disease, maybe in part because of people releasing unwanted pet ACF's. Chytrid is wiping out _Rana muscosa_, the mountain yellow-legged frog. This frog is a native of mountain lakes in the Golden State, but is dying off in large numbers in these pristine lakes.

Also California has quite a few native species that are found no where else but California. The black toad, _Anaxyrus exsul_ and the red-bellied newt, _Taricha rivularis_ come to mind.

I wouldn't suggest anyone live outside the law and keep illegal animals. People that do so, make it harder on the rest of us. What I would suggest is letting your opinion known at public hearings on the subject and writing your state representatives. Keep an eye out for any legislation that may come down the road.

There is legislation pending in Washington that is very similar to the one in California. A representative or senator from Florida wants to ban python ownership across the entire country because there is an established populations of Burmese pythons in Southern Florida. Its a Florida problem and not a national problem. The NEHS opposes this proposal. 

There also a piece of pending legislation on the banning of importing, breeding, and selling of non-native species into the country. http://www.nohr669.com/

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## John Clare

> Some laws are meant to be broken. Why should people lose their rights and freedoms because of other peoples ignorance,stupidity, or prejudices. And governments get away with it because people don't have the money to fight these social injustices in the court system. California is so broke they are just trying to raise money. They can't afford to enforce these laws. Don't worry, it won't take too many more dumb ideas before the state collapses. And besides going undergound means no paying for permits. To all those in California who can live with in a budget and are tired of a government who can't there is life east of the Rocky Mountains(Unless you're my in-laws, you guys just stay put).


Please keep to the issue at hand.  This isn't an excuse for a free-for-all political debate on California.

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## mikeald

If the issue was to protect native species the would have banned domestic dogs and cats too.

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## Kurt

The dog/cat people far out number turtle/frog people and they vote. The truth of the matter is most dog/cat owners generally don't release their pets when they grow tired of them. Sadly, many people who have owned exotic animals (fish, birds, reptiles, amphibians) release their animals into the wild, thinking they are doing the animal a favor. They are the reason we have those trying to ban our animals.
What we need to do is educate pet owners, in this case frogs, that releasing their unwanted pets is a bad idea and in many places illegal. By releasing their animals, they are making things difficult for the rest of us and introducing invasive species that can wreak havoc. Many herpetological societies have adoption programs to place unwanted animals in new (and usually much better) homes. So if any one has an unwanted frog (or other herp) they should contact their local herp society for help. Also many pet stores will take them in.

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