# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) >  Dart breeders

## Paul

My Wife stumbled across US Dart Frog - SAFE dart frogs (usdartfrigs) and I am wondering if anyone knows what their reputation is. Their site says Captive breed and all the normal things, but we are concerned with supporting the right businesses in the industry so I am wondering if anyone has any experience ordering form them. Their prices are much cheaper than other sites and shipping is very reasonable.

Any info will be greatly appreciated!

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## Carlos

First I hear of them.  You might also want to check any seller reputation at Fauna Classifieds  :Smile:  .

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## Lynn

Me as well ...I have not heard of them ( means nothing, though ) 
Nice site.
 :Butterfly:

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## Alex Shepack

Educate yourself before you make any purchases.  I doubt the BOI on Fauna will have anything.  I would try a google search and see what some of the dart frog forums have to say.  

Caveat - Just because some people may not like a breeder does not mean they are a bad breeder.  If the frogs are in good health and the service is good and you are happy with them, it may be best to just disregard what other people say. 

Cheers!
Alex

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## Paul

The site seems to be fairly knew according to all the DNS records I have looked at. Their shipping methods, over all Frog knowledge and focus on customer service leads me to believe they could be good. May order a couple frogs from them in the not to distant future, but will continue to research as much as I can before then.

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## Eric Walker

Check out the loooong thread about them on dendroboard.   It will be under dart frog warehouse which was their first of many name changes in a very short time.   That thread alone should be enough to give you an idea of why not to buy from them


Here it is
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/sou...warehouse.html

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## Carlos

138 pages and counting... wow  :EEK!:  !  That is a lot of forum energy  :Big Grin:  ! 

Since OPs question included the words "support the right business" guess my recommendation is to look elsewhere.  Myself would stay away from any fancy "exciting" online sale places that remind me of telemarketers ads.

Think if your desired frogs are sold by Josh, you can't go wrong by buying from him.  His "Froggy Four Packs" are a way to get started in a group of frogs at a lower cost  :Smile:  .

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## Paul

Yeah the more i read about them the sorrier i feel for them. Shame would of been nice to have another good breeder to select frogs from.

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## theblackfrog2013

Dont buy nothing from them. My thoughts

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## Happy Frog

I've been aware of this site for a couple of months now.  I myself would stay away from them simply for the fact that they have given the dart frogs ridiculous common names and are stressing that the dart frogs are safe and in no way poisonous.  It seems that they are trying to market the dart frogs to the general pet market and thus do not care about the well being of the frogs but instead sales and profit.  I've wanted a Bengal tiger ever since I was a kid but that doesn't mean I should go out and buy one and throw it a steak everyday!

They are calling D. tinctorius azureus a "Malibu" and D. tinctorius Cobalt a "Aurora". :Frog Surprise: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWwOJlOI1nU

This is my opinion.

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## theblackfrog2013

Oh I know. Sad part is they are 8hrs from me, but I wont support change the face of the hobby for a buck. We all know pdfs are poisonous in the wild and captive bred dont have critical amounts that will harm you. In my opinion they still have some level of poison so we always be poison dart frogs. Doest mean they are safe for everybody. Even my 5yr old understands this.

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## ndame88

DFW has alienated the "Hobby" by refusing to listen to any advice some long time froggers tried to provide them.   Less then two years ago, the owner was brand new to the hobby, asking very basic questions on care and breeding.  Fast forward to today, now the owner is somehow an "expert" on the hobby, pushing cheap questionable frogs to whoever is willing to buy.  There are some great breeders in this wonderful hobby, yes, their prices are more than DFW, but you can guarantee that their frogs were breed and raised properly.

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## FrogRN

I have to second what Jeff said.  The people at DFW initially made sure to emphasize they were in no way connected to your typical dart frog hobbyists and ensured the world that their frogs were higher quality than any other frogs available to the market.  What they didn't mention was that their parent stock that they have renamed, causing a lot of confusions to newbs, came from those hobbyists, myself included.  They are advertising frogs that their "expert" produced when those frogs actually originated with a well known breeder, Sean Stewart.  If you know anything about science and read their "research" on the site, you will see so many fallacies in thinking that you will get disenchanted with them.  Any self respected hobbyist will tell you stay as far away from them as possible.

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## theblackfrog2013

Frog I agree with you. I've only been around about 3 years now, but I give respect where its due when it comes to buisness and this hobby. Dfw does none of this. Sad part is they arec8 hrs from me but I still wont buy from them. All the bad info and name changes makes it even harder to explain and help these new comers. I'm doing everything I can to educate those around me so they aren't stuped by dfw.

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## p51mustang23

About 2 days after i started researching dart frogs, I stumbled across their site.  I immediately knew something was off due to the language used and site design.  Fast forward a month and I found the thread on DB.  Turns out its not just a little off, these guys are the scum of our little hobby.  

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## Dendro Dave

I've been active in the DB thread on them, as a vocal opponent. They have lied outright at least once when they said "we will NOT mix species or varieties" on their site. Pretty sure that is gone now. They edit the webpage content with ridiculous frequency. Then they posted a pic with a bunch of tinc morphs jammed into an under planted viv (_IMO)_, and started selling hybrids. They also recently said on their site "all their frogs breed true"...but they sell hybrids. I don't know about you, but I don't consider hybrid offspring from 2 separate species or having hybrids pumping out hybrid babies as breeding true. So I count that as a lie too.. They said "the same variety" (pretty misleading), as they tend to steer away from more accepted terms like "morph" or "locale" because they can more easily skew "variety" to suit their agenda, but either way a ton of misleading stuff and/or wrong info coming from them (IMO).

Don't see why anyone would wanna do business with someone who has lied at least once, and IMO willfully attempts to repeatedly mislead people, and makes up a bunch of pseudoscience BS, and/or is so ignorant of the actual science/facts that they are a danger to every person that listens to them and any animal who's care is influenced by them. 

Even if you don't care about the hybrid issue, it's pretty hard to deny that they've lied, and attempted to repeatedly mislead people, and give out questionable husbandry advice, like "no need to quarantine our frogs", etc..etc..etc...

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## Lynn

Please be aware this a _resurrected thread_ ( started again 2 weeks ago) , originally started in Feb of 2014.

Also, please recall Frog Forum has a "Testimonials Area" ; a place to voice an opinion regarding  any 'personal' (first hand)  displeasure, bad experiences, feeling of annoyance or disapproval.

Testimonials

flybyferns

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