# Other Animals > Other Pets >  any aquarists here?  I need some help...

## Lindsey

I have a 10 gallon tank, about 2 years old.
I will admit that I got the tank with very little knowledge of the biological filter, and how to maintain it.
I will also admit that I didn't get very good advice at the lfs, so unfortunatley have lost a couple fish along the way....

Up until recently I had 5 glowlight tetras (down to 4):
Hemigrammus erythrozonus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3 zebra snails:
Neritina natalensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1 albino pleco (about 4 inches long):
Albino Plecostomus colorful tropical fish pictures

1 japanese algae eating shrimp:
Petshrimp.com -- All about shrimp

3 Amazon Sword tail plants:
Aquatic Plants for Freshwater Aquariums: Amazon Sword Aquarium Plant

I realize I'm overstocked (now), and never realized how large the pleco would get  :EEK!: !  He was a little one of about 1.5 inches when I got him...

So here comes my question:
One of the glowlight tetras died last week, I replace it with another which died one day later.  I haven't replaced it yet, do I need to?  The local lfs said I need 5 tetras for them to feel safe and secure.
I tested my water:
Zero Ammonia, Zero Nitrites, and 40 ppm of Nitrate.  I have done 25% water changes every day and still can't get my nitrates down.
PH is 8....

My other question:
My plants are dying!  did really well for a couple years, but are now suddenly dying off...   Any connection?  I recently started adding CO2 to the tank (per the advice of lfs), should I fertilize as well?

I'm stuck on what I should do to proceed...
Any help or advice, etc. is very much welcome!

Oh, and here's a photo of the tank:


Here's a picture of the plants:


Also should add, I have an aqua clear filter, 10-20.  And a bubbler 
(as you can see in the pics)

Thanks guys!

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## Lindsey

Ah, shoot.  Can't figure out how to get that pic of my quarantine tank for baby white's off!  Sorry (I'm computer dis-abled).


EDIT:  Ok, nevermind.  After a little tinkering, I figured it out  :Smile:

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## bill

i'll get to you on this after work Bol, i need a real keyboard in front of me. too much info to type on my phone. especially since the boss is glaring at me whilst i type this......lol

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## Lindsey

> i'll get to you on this after work Bol, i need a real keyboard in front of me. too much info to type on my phone. especially since the boss is glaring at me whilst i type this......lol


Thanks, bill!
No rush.  Please don't risk your job for my itty bitty tank  :Wink:

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## bill

oh please, he can glare all he wants. he could never do what i do....lol

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## bill

> I have a 10 gallon tank, about 2 years old.
> I will admit that I got the tank with very little knowledge of the biological filter, and how to maintain it.
> I will also admit that I didn't get very good advice at the lfs, so unfortunatley have lost a couple fish along the way....
> 
> Up until recently I had 5 glowlight tetras (down to 4):
> Hemigrammus erythrozonus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 3 zebra snails:
> Neritina natalensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


ok, so, as far as the tetras go, they would feel more safe and secure that larger the school is. i always keeps schools of 6 or more. do they absolutely need to be in a school? no. plenty of people keep them in pairs and singly and those fish live a nice, happy, healthy life with no problems.

as far as the pleco goes, you can always re-home him and pic up a bristlenose pleco. they only grow to about 4' or so. or some otocinclus cats. they only grow to about 2". of course, you could also add a cory cat or two. all options for down the road, obviously.  :Smile: 

as far as your nitrate issue, try rinsing out your media in some old tank water. or some dechlor water. that should get your nitrates down. not that they are really excessive for a planted tank.

now as far as the plants go. i need to ask a couple questions. do you fertilize the tank? how long have you had the airstone in there? what kind of co2 are you adding? and i hate to sound mean, but if those are the same plants that you have had for a year or so, they are just surviving, not thriving or doing ok.  lol they should be HUGE. i have had amazon swords grow from 4 leaf plantlets to 2 foot tall 2 foot wide monsters within 2 months.....lol

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## Lindsey

> ok, so, as far as the tetras go, they would feel more safe and secure that larger the school is. i always keeps schools of 6 or more. do they absolutely need to be in a school? no. plenty of people keep them in pairs and singly and those fish live a nice, happy, healthy life with no problems.
> 
> as far as the pleco goes, you can always re-home him and pic up a bristlenose pleco. they only grow to about 4' or so. or some otocinclus cats. they only grow to about 2". of course, you could also add a cory cat or two. all options for down the road, obviously. 
> 
> as far as your nitrate issue, try rinsing out your media in some old tank water. or some dechlor water. that should get your nitrates down. not that they are really excessive for a planted tank.
> 
> now as far as the plants go. i need to ask a couple questions. do you fertilize the tank? how long have you had the airstone in there? what kind of co2 are you adding? and i hate to sound mean, but if those are the same plants that you have had for a year or so, they are just surviving, not thriving or doing ok.  lol they should be HUGE. i have had amazon swords grow from 4 leaf plantlets to 2 foot tall 2 foot wide monsters within 2 months.....lol


Ugh, you're so mean!  :Stick Out Tongue: 
I do not fertilize the tank, would any of the plant fertilizers at the lfs suffice, or do reccomend a specific brand?
The airstone is about 4 months new.
The Co2 I bought and have been using for only about a week is API Co2 booster.  I follow the directions, 1 ml per day per 10 gallons.
I feel so bad for those plants, yes, they are 2 years old!  They were huge, but as the leaves have started dissentigrating, I've been pruning them off...  now they're just these pathetic little things.
One thing that someone jsut mentioned, I also have never replaced my bulb, maybe that is part of the equation?

Who would take my pleco?  I have no friends with tanks, and I kind of like him.  I read he will max out at 4 inches.  I believe he is an albino bristle nose?  I could be wrong.

Thanks bill!

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## bill

> Ugh, you're so mean! 
> I do not fertilize the tank, would any of the plant fertilizers at the lfs suffice, or do reccomend a specific brand?
> The airstone is about 4 months new.
> The Co2 I bought and have been using for only about a week is API Co2 booster.  I follow the directions, 1 ml per day per 10 gallons.
> I feel so bad for those plants, yes, they are 2 years old!  They were huge, but as the leaves have started dissentigrating, I've been pruning them off...  now they're just these pathetic little things.
> One thing that someone jsut mentioned, I also have never replaced my bulb, maybe that is part of the equation?
> 
> 
> Who would take my pleco?  I have no friends with tanks, and I kind of like him.  I read he will max out at 4 inches.  I believe he is an albino bristle nose?  I could be wrong.
> ...


for swords, since they are heavy root feeders, i would use root tabs. either the seachem or api versions work well. if you have access to empty gel caps (doesn't everyone? LOL) you can fill them with osmocote (available at most big box stores), in essence, making your own root tabs.

the problem with adding carbon AND an airstone is that you are just pouring money into your tank. the o2 you are adding from the airstone is negating the co2 you're adding. my recommendation? put the air pump on a timer and put it on at night only. since the plants don't utilize co2 at night, it will supplement the tank with o2 for the fishies. the bulb _could_ be part of the equation, but i doubt it. they most likely started melting due to the death of the 2 fish and lack of fertilization. swords are very sensitive to ammonia swings, even if only temporarily. i change the bulbs in my planted tanks annually, but i know people who change them when they burn out. 

as far as the pleco goes, you're good to go darlin'. i was under the impression that you had a standard pleco. abn's are perfect for small tanks. they are great little fish. and i'll let ya in on a little planted tank secret: the more plants you have in a tank, the more leeway you have with stocking. the plants serve as a bio filter and allow for a bit of overstocking. so your current stocking level is ok with the swords you have in there.

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brian c

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## Lindsey

> for swords, since they are heavy root feeders, i would use root tabs. either the seachem or api versions work well. if you have access to empty gel caps (doesn't everyone? LOL) you can fill them with osmocote (available at most big box stores), in essence, making your own root tabs.
> 
> the problem with adding carbon AND an airstone is that you are just pouring money into your tank. the o2 you are adding from the airstone is negating the co2 you're adding. my recommendation? put the air pump on a timer and put it on at night only. since the plants don't utilize co2 at night, it will supplement the tank with o2 for the fishies. the bulb _could_ be part of the equation, but i doubt it. they most likely started melting due to the death of the 2 fish and lack of fertilization. swords are very sensitive to ammonia swings, even if only temporarily. i change the bulbs in my planted tanks annually, but i know people who change them when they burn out. 
> 
> as far as the pleco goes, you're good to go darlin'. i was under the impression that you had a standard pleco. abn's are perfect for small tanks. they are great little fish. and i'll let ya in on a little planted tank secret: the more plants you have in a tank, the more leeway you have with stocking. the plants serve as a bio filter and allow for a bit of overstocking. so your current stocking level is ok with the swords you have in there.


Ahh, I've just learned so much!!!!
Thank you so much for your time, bill!
I like the timer idea for the bubbler, so if I understand correctly, put the bubbler on at night so the fish get the o2, and turn it off at during the day so the plants get the co2?
I'll get some fertilizer, and no, I don't have access to empty gel caps?  Maybe the vitamin store...  but I think I'll just buy the root tbs you suggest, I'm not that handy!
 :Smile: 
I'll let you know how this progresses, thanks again!

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## bill

that is correct. co2-day 02-night. and you are very welcome  :Smile:  oh, and don't forget to trim off those melted leaves

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Bolisnide

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## Carlos

Hi, just want to add couple simple thoughts.  1st thing is to buy new light bulb/s.  If fluorescent tubes; they start losing lumens around six month mark and by 1 year many are producing 1/2 the lumens they did as new.  Only light elements you do not replace are LEDs.  

Second thing is your aquarium pH of 8.  For tetras in general, a pH of 8 is a bit high.  Do you know what was pH before starting to add the CO2?  If adding CO2 raised the tank pH abruptly; it could explain the death of first Tetra.   Also, if store had 2nd Tetra in neutral to acidic water; it probably died of pH shock when released into highly alkaline water.   Sadly, Tetras don't handle abrupt pH changes well  :Frown:  .

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## Lindsey

> Hi, just want to add couple simple thoughts.  1st thing is to buy new light bulb/s.  If fluorescent tubes; they start losing lumens around six month mark and by 1 year many are producing 1/2 the lumens they did as new.  Only light elements you do not replace are LEDs.  
> 
> Second thing is your aquarium pH of 8.  For tetras in general, a pH of 8 is a bit high.  Do you know what was pH before starting to add the CO2?  If adding CO2 raised the tank pH abruptly; it could explain the death of first Tetra.   Also, if store had 2nd Tetra in neutral to acidic water; it probably died of pH shock when released into highly alkaline water.   Sadly, Tetras don't handle abrupt pH changes well  .


Yes!  I think you may be right about the pH.
I posted this exact post on tropical fish forums, and that was their main concern...
My tap pH is 8.0.  I can't figure outhow to lower the pH?  I've tried several products.
The suggestion on tropical fish forums was to re-home the tetras and then get more alkaline, hard water tolerant fish...

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## Carlos

> Yes!  I think you may be right about the pH.
> I posted this exact post on tropical fish forums, and that was their main concern...
> My tap pH is 8.0.  I can't figure outhow to lower the pH?  I've tried several products.
> The suggestion on tropical fish forums was to re-home the tetras and then get more alkaline, hard water tolerant fish...


Your tap water must be very "hard."  It's a term used to describe the mineral content of water.  Most prevalent is calcium carbonate and one of it's effects is to raise pH and buffer it there no matter what you do.  So the first thing to do is to soften the water a bit until the pH lowers some; at least to neutral territory.  For that, you use a product like this one in your tank until the desired pH is reached: Water Softener Pillow.  Once you get there, can store the resin pillow in aquarium salt solution and it recharges until next use.  There are also test kits where you can monitor the water hardness: Aquarium Water Testing: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals GH/KH Test Kit; but you can monitor indirectly by measuring pH.  API is widely available in US so you can get those products locally or order through the net. 

Couple more things I forgot, that plant damage could be caused by a hungry Pleco.  Have you seen him "vigorously" cleaning leaves in the Amazon plants?  Try adding a veggie disk to tank in evening and see if it helps.  In reality a full grown Albino is a heavy load for your tank.

And in regards to Nitrates; would take a clean water sample to local pet shop and ask them for a complimentary Nitrate test; because your test kit might be bad. Also, if using test strips, those are very inaccurate.  Good luck  :Smile:  !

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## Lindsey

> Your tap water must be very "hard."  It's a term used to describe the mineral content of water.  Most prevalent is calcium carbonate and one of it's effects is to raise pH and buffer it there no matter what you do.  So the first thing to do is to soften the water a bit until the pH lowers some; at least to neutral territory.  For that, you use a product like this one in your tank until the desired pH is reached: Water Softener Pillow.  Once you get there, can store the resin pillow in aquarium salt solution and it recharges until next use.  There are also test kits where you can monitor the water hardness: Aquarium Water Testing: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals GH/KH Test Kit; but you can monitor indirectly by measuring pH.  API is widely available in US so you can get those products locally or order through the net. 
> 
> Couple more things I forgot, that plant damage could be caused by a hungry Pleco.  Have you seen him "vigorously" cleaning leaves in the Amazon plants?  Try adding a veggie disk to tank in evening and see if it helps.  In reality a full grown Albino is a heavy load for your tank.
> 
> And in regards to Nitrates; would take a clean water sample to local pet shop and ask them for a complimentary Nitrate test; because your test kit might be bad. Also, if using test strips, those are very inaccurate.  Good luck  !


My water is very hard, it's a battle on all fronts, not just with the aquarium.  I had the well water tested, and the calcium and magnesium were very high.  I was unaware of the water softener pillow, I'm definitely going to try that out, thank you!

The pleco is fed algae/veggie disks regularly, and I have never personally witnessed him on the plants, but he is more active at night so that's not to say he doesn't ever graze on the plants....  he's a big guy for sure (about 4"), but it seems like he's stopped growing.  I do like him...  so who knows what I'll do.  It seems that the fish forum also agrees that he's a big load on the small tank.  Maybe I should get a gigger tank?   :Smile: 

I was also thinking of getting a complimentary water test done at the fish shop.  I do use the API freshwater master test kit, but have read the nitrate readings can be off a lot of the time.

Thanks for your help!  I'll keep you all posted.

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## bill

while i agree with carlos that your ph is high, it's not unheard of for tetras to thrive in a hard water environment. tetras can be found throughout the amazon river system, including the semi-brackish and brackish delta systems. think about if for a moment, you have had them in your tank, under the same water chemistry for 2 years. i highly doubt that ph is the reason that you are having issues. i would agree that a ph swing and improper acclimation may have caused tetra b's demise, but if your lfs is in the same town as you, they are most likely using the same tap water supply that you are. 

as far as softening the water, thise buffers are bad, bad, BAD for the plants. aquatic plants do not handle excessive chemicals very well. if you truly want to soften your water some, i would recommend adding peat to your filter. i know fluval makes a peat bag for filters, and i amsure eheim and aquaclear also make the same. in all my shrimp tanks where i needed low ph levels (5.0-6.4), i always kept a layer of peat moss under my substrate. and my tap is 6.8.

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## Lindsey

> while i agree with carlos that your ph is high, it's not unheard of for tetras to thrive in a hard water environment. tetras can be found throughout the amazon river system, including the semi-brackish and brackish delta systems. think about if for a moment, you have had them in your tank, under the same water chemistry for 2 years. i highly doubt that ph is the reason that you are having issues. i would agree that a ph swing and improper acclimation may have caused tetra b's demise, but if your lfs is in the same town as you, they are most likely using the same tap water supply that you are. 
> 
> as far as softening the water, thise buffers are bad, bad, BAD for the plants. aquatic plants do not handle excessive chemicals very well. if you truly want to soften your water some, i would recommend adding peat to your filter. i know fluval makes a peat bag for filters, and i amsure eheim and aquaclear also make the same. in all my shrimp tanks where i needed low ph levels (5.0-6.4), i always kept a layer of peat moss under my substrate. and my tap is 6.8.


Well....  I have read that tetras can adapt to hard and high alkaline water.
And I have had 5 tetras for 2 years....
Maybe the first tetra that died, just died of old age?  What is their lifespan typically?
hmmmmmmmm........  so I really want plants in the tank, so.........

But, want to add, that I also want the fish to be happy and healthy.  I have read, and heard, and have been told, that tetras like acidic to neutral water.

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## bill

yes, tetras are extremely hardy fish and can and do acclimate to harder water quality. i know guys who keep neons in 8.2 ph levels. one guy actually uses water from a flooded limestone quarry in his tanks because it is pure, clean and free....lol
i have never kept glowlights, but if i recall correctly, they live about 2-5 years. i prefer the smaller tetras (neon, cardinal, von rio) and the largest ones (pirhana).  :Smile:

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## Lija

you know what guys, I've kept fish for n years, but not anymore though as frogs and snakes took all the space lol
 the thing is after reading this I'm realizing I had absolutely no idea of what I was doing  :Frown:  hm... 
 thank you!

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## bill

i somehow find that very hard to believe  :Smile:

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## Lindsey

Okay, this is what I decided:

I'm going to keep all inhabitants, including the pleco...
I'm not going to add a 5th glowlight tetra.
I have fertilized the plants with the API root tabs, and replaced my bulb (because it was 2 yrs old).
I am going to see how it goes for now, and not soften my water.

I also added 3 peacock ferns (thought they were pretty).

I tested my water at the lfs and my nitrates were at 40 ppm, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and pH came in a 7.8.

I'll post pics of the progress with the plants

AND- Thank you so much for all the info Carlos and Bill!  You guys rock!

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## bill

you are so welcome, but you are going to hate me when i tell you that the peacock fern is a marginal and will rot and die submerged :-(

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## Lindsey

> you are so welcome, but you are going to hate me when i tell you that the peacock fern is a marginal and will rot and die submerged :-(


My lfs sucks!  They said it would be a nice addition?
I have no idea what marginal means?

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## bill

marginal is the area between aquatic and terrestrial. otherwise knows as the bog area. java fern would be better. or an anubias species. those people at petsmart have no clue  :Wink:

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## Lindsey

> marginal is the area between aquatic and terrestrial. otherwise knows as the bog area. java fern would be better. or an anubias species. those people at petsmart have no clue


Erk, I guess I'll return it.
Yeah, they really have no clue!  (it was the other big chain store, not that it matters, they're both equally bad).
The plant was packaged as an aquatic plant (in a tube), and when I asked about it the kid said, "Oh yeah, those are really cool in an aquarium, and they don't get too big.."

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## Lindsey

Are Carlos and bill still around?  Long time since I've been on the forum, hope you're well!
My tank was doing well with all of your help until this past Friday..
Over the past two years I lost my algae eating shrimp, and a couple of snails.  Other than that my tank flourished.  Plants all looking beautiful, fish doing great.
Friday my son talked me into getting two mystery white (albino?) snails,  and boom this morning every single glo light tetra dead.  I know they were at the end of their life cycle, but all of them?
I checked water chemistry, and all seamed typical- 0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, 80 nitrate, ph at 8 (which it always had been).
So I did a water change any way and doses with melafix.
No I have heavy cloudiness going on.
Albino pleco seems fine.
WTF is up?  Should I do another water change?
I currently only have one zebra snail, 2 mystery white snails, and my little pleco....
I can post a pic tomorrow if you think it would help diagnose...
TIA!  :Smile: 


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## Cris

With the high nitrates, cloudiness, and the recent addition of the snails, it sounds like your tank is going through a mini nitrogen cycle. The addition of the snails (mystery snails are HUGE waste factories and are really too much for a 10 gallon to handle long-term) added too much poop and resulting ammonia for your established beneficial bacteria to handle. If your tetras were old or weakened at all they could easily have died because of this ammonia spike. The bacteria eventually would have converted it to nitrates, but cloudiness in the tank (unless it's green algae clouds) is a classic sign of the nitrogen cycle. 

Its always possible that that the snails had brought home an illness from the pet store if they weren't quarantined first, but it is extremely unlikely that your fish would all die so quickly without showing symptoms first.

How often do you perform water changes? What percent of the water do you change each time? Did you also change the filter cartridge at the same time?

For now you will need to do daily partial water changes (up to 50% at a time, but no more or you risk killing beneficial bacteria) to keep ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels safe. Also, I hate to tell you but really neither the snails nor the Pleco are suitable for a ten gallon tank. I wouldn't add any new fish while your tank is cycling. Wait until it is stable before adding any new fish.

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Bolisnide

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## Lindsey

Yes, thank you.
I'll try and answer all your questions (I'm on my phone so please excuse me)..
So I was previously doing water changes once per month, and changing out only about 30% of the water.
Usually my nitrates are at about 40 ppm.
The snails are tiny, they could have caused that much damage to my water chem in 2 days?  Wow.
I did not quarantine :/
Tetras were about 4 years old, so yes oldish I suppose.
No green algae, looks like a white cloud in the tank..
Currently I have the bristle nose pleco, it's full grown albino, 4 inches long.  And the 1 old zebra snail and the two new white snails purchased Friday.
I was told, the pleco isn't ideal for a 10 gallon, but he's survived several years now, and I don't know what to do with him otherwise- a bigger tank not an option due to space issues.
So it's not bacterial, it's a messed up nitrogen cycle?
I will do daily water changes, what else should I do?
And do you think there's any hope for adding any fish ever?
Thanks for you're help  :Smile: 


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## Cris

You can definitely add more fish eventually! Sorry, I didn't mean to make you think you could never have fish again! You just need to wait until your tank finishes this mini cycle and is a better environment for them. Here is an article that explains the nitrogen cycle if you aren't familiar: http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/bi...rogencycle.htm

Snails produce a shocking amount of waste for their size. In a small tank like yours, it certainly could have been the tipping point since the waste doesn't have 50 gallons of water to dilute it. Ideally I would recommend returning at least one of the snails if possible to reduce the bioload (aka amount of poop) in your tank. I'd also recommend, once your tank is done cycling, to start doing weekly 25% water changes instead of monthly. 40 ppm nitrates is a bit high. I would recommend testing your tap water directly out of the faucet to see if it already has that nitrate level present. If not, then it is probably a symptom of the infrequent water changes, so weekly partial water changes will help lower nitrate levels and the stress on your fish.

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Bolisnide

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## Lindsey

No no, don't be sorry.
It's late here...
So funny how folks at the fish store told me 40 ppm was acceptable, and not to do weekly water changes because water changes stress the fish :/
I'll try and return a snail, check my tap nitrates (never done that!), and do as you've advised.  I really appreciate all who've helped me with such a relatively unexciting  aquarium, thank you!
By the way, I also rinsed my filter out (oops?) this last water change.
Thanks again!


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## bill

> By the way, I also rinsed my filter out (oops?) this last water change.
> Thanks again!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There's your huckleberry. Did you use tank water or tap water? If you used tap, you probably killed off all the bacterial in the cartridge, essentially rebooting the nitrogen cycle. 

I agree, that snails are huge waste machines, but 2 mystery snails causing that much death in 2 days? That's a bit unlikely. I've added more snails into smaller tanks and never had any issues. But then again, anything is possible. 




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Bolisnide

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## Lindsey

Hey Bill!   :Wink: 
I rinsed the filter in well water, from my tap - no chlorine in my water, but definitely heavy metals (I do use API tap conditioner with my water changes though).
I rinsed the filter after the fish died, but didn't experience the cloudy water until after I rinsed the filter, so perhaps the fish death and this now messed up biological filter are unrelated issues?
Also, those little snails managed to eat a lot of my plants over the course of the weekend, little brats, so now I am left with sword plants that are now half devoured too.
I did a 25% water change this morning, still have cloudy water....  Checked the water chemistry, and now my nitrates are somewhere between 40 ppm and 80 ppm (I use those little strips, so couldn't quite tell if the nitrates have lowered much).
My nitrites are still at zero, but my ammonia is looking like a 5?  Ugh, so annoyed with myself.
I also added some of the aquarium bacteria stuff, I usually add it when I do a water change anyway...
ho hum.

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## bill

Wow. Sounds like maybe there are multiple things at play here. 

I would venture a guess to say that the death of the tetras created an ammonia spike, and that is what is killing plants. Sword are hardy plants, but sensitive to drastic swings in water chemistry. Mystery snails are a small species of Apple snail, and may occasionally graze on plants, but they normally do not destroy plants that fast. Or, at least, I have never had them tear up a tank fast. In fact, I personally have never had them eat plants. 

Weekly water changes will not overly stress out the fish. It's normal procedure for those of us who dose fertilizers using the EI method. Heck, i used to do 2 50% changes on my shrimp tanks back in the day. 

Unfortunately, there's no way to know now why the tetras died. It may just have been coincidence. Did you see all the tetras when you added the snails? Possibly one died, unnoticed, causing an ammonia spike which finished off the rest of the tetras?

Oh, and get a real test kit, those strips are garbage lol



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Bolisnide

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## Lindsey

hmmm, ok ok..  makes sense.  Now that you mention it, I don't remember if I saw all the tetras when I added the snails - very good theory.
I'll get a good test kit, and I'll continue with daily water changes until the water chemistry looks good.
Hopefully my pleco won't die through all of this havoc I created in his little world  :Frown: 
The plants do look pitiful, assumed it was the snails, but I haven't seen them eat them...  so yes it could be the messed up water.
Thanks everyone!!  I'll keep you posted.

EDIT:  BTW, what should my nitrates be at?
I know the nitrite and ammonia should always be zero.
And my PH is high, and the general hardness is also very high.

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## Lindsey

And I forgot to mention, checked my well water with the strips - Nitrate at 10 ppm.
IS that bad?

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## bill

10 is an 'acceptable' number. I try to keep my tanks at 10ppm or below for nitrates, they just never stay that low because of how heavily I dose fertilizers. 


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## Lindsey

Okay, I'm going to be super annoying.  I just came home with a real freshwater testing kit, here's what I got:  ammonia 2.0, nitrite 10!, nitrate 80!.
im going to do another water change...  Is that ok?  I did only 25% this morning.  Should I do another 25% or do 50%?

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## bill

Another water change is ok. You're going to have a lot in your future until you get those numbers down. 

I guess you're learning how bad those strips are now, huh? Inaccurate is an understatement.  :Frown: 


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## Lindsey

yes, no more strips.  Surprisingly inaccurate.
Tested again this morning, and ammonia is almost zero, nitrate is going down and I'm at about a 20.  Nitrite is still pretty high, but looks like it is going down too.
I've pulled out all of the dissolving plant leaves too.
What is very strange is I've never experienced this white cloudiness, and it's leaving a slime on all of the walls and ornaments, and my plant leaves.  It's like a white slime that seems to be getting worse as the water quality seems to be getting slowly better.
Ugh.
My pleco is still hanging in there, but I haven't fed him since this all went down on Sunday.  Should I feed him tonight?  Or wait until this slime goes away and the water quality is a bit better?

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## bill

Hold off on feeding the pleco. Let the water chemistry come into it's own. 

Ammonia dropping and nitrites starting to drop means your mini cycle is coming to an end. 

Don't be afraid to change water. I have done as much as 75% water changes on some of my tanks. I would do a 50% change every other day until your parameters get back in line. 


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## Lindsey

okay, thanks!  And I assume the slime will start to go away as things start to balance again...

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## bill

I want to say yes, but since I am not 100% sure what the white slime is, I can't say with much certainty. I would have expected you to develop a brown 'algae'. That would be diatoms from having the bio filter overloaded. But you are saying white, so let's get the chemistry back in line and move forward from there  :Smile: 


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## Lindsey

I think this is what's going on... http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?...oms-explained/
 I did vacuum the gravel this last water change, and oh boy was there a ton of decaying plant matter and poo in there.  I uprooted some of my plants in the process, so I don't know if I killed them but at least I got a lot of gunk out of the gravel.
Basically it seems my husbandry was pretty bad, and it resulted in this explosive problem when I added the two snails (I'm guessing).  And because I was using those useless test strips I was unaware I had a problem at all.  The snails, as Cris said, were probably the tipping point.
Poor fish, I feel terrible.

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## bill

Yup. I didn't want to confuse you with terms like bacterial bloom or bio bloom. But that's essentially what it is. A mini cycle of the biological filter. 


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## Krispy

> Yup. I didn't want to confuse you with terms like bacterial bloom or bio bloom. But that's essentially what it is. A mini cycle of the biological filter. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Check out monsterfishkeepers.com

Been a lurker there for years. Learned most of my viv/building there too.

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## bill

Monster is ok, but when it comes to water chemistry involving live plants, you can't beat plantedtank.net or aquaticplantcentral.com. 


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## Lindsey

hiya,
So, my water seems to be right on now...  0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and nitrates at what appear to be a 10.
My son is itching for something exciting in the tank, and I was kinda thinking maybe a beautiful male betta may be a good choice.
What do y'all think?
Only problem may be that my water is hard, and my PH tends to be on the higher side (today tested at 7.5, I can't figure why, unless water quality can change the pH.)?
Many thanks

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## Lindsey

or...  an African dwarf frog?  my kiddo's other choice..

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## bill

7.5 isn't too awful for a betta. If the tetras did well, so should a betta. Maybe a smallish (6) school of something like harlequin rasboras? With the plants in the tank, you can overstock a wee bit without hurting anything. 

Of course, the adf isn't a bad idea either. 


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## Lindsey

cool, thanks bill.
IF the water is still testng stable, we may go get an adf this weekend!  My kiddo has caught the frog bug  :Embarrassment: .
so, guess I have some homework to do!
I'll try and post a current pic of the aquarium soon.

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## Cris

Either a male betta or an ADF would do well. Bettas are pretty hardy to just about any ph and are personable little fish. Just keep in mind that neither should be combined with other fish (with the exception of a bottom feeder like the Pleco). Bettas will have aggression issues with other fish and ADFs will have trouble getting enough food with the competition of faster swimming tank mates.

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## Lindsey

Hey Cris, thanks!  I was only thinking of getting one or the other, and of course just one of what we decide on...
But, on my other thread in aquatic frogs, I was told the gravel is bad for adf's, so we may just go with a male betta.  I am not taking all of my gravel out, don't have time, and too much work!
I have been reading up on both adf's and bettas, and do bettas require aquarium salt for health?  Would that affect the health of my plants?

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## irThumper

Pardon the brief hijack but I have a question that is sort of aquarist related. I just purchased a 2nd hand 5 gallon tank from Goodwill and noticed the caulking is stained greenish... I soaked the thing in super hot tap water and 10% bleach. Afterwards  I dried it with paper towels and this green stuff (malachite green maybe??) is STILL coming off on the paper towels, but is also still in the caulking. Is it safe to use this tank for a hospital enclosure for frogs or should I skip it?

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