# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > Beginner Discussion >  Dart frog care?

## into

So what makes dart frogs more advanced or harder to take care of? I'm not in the market for them, just curious.

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## Kurt

My success in darts is limited, so if there is anyone that is more informed, please feel to drop into the conversation and correct me if so needed.

First, for the most part you do have to raise your own food. That generally means fruit flies. Its easy enough, but the trick is to do it so you have a steady supply to feed out to your frogs. More often than not its a case of feast or famine. It has only been in the last six months that I have managed keep things going the way they should be. You have to know what species of fruit fly you are dealing with and how long it takes for that species to mature for you take make sure this happens.

Second, since you are limiting your frogs diet to foods you can readily supply like fruit flies, it will not have the proper nutrition it needs. So you will have to dust the fruit flies. Not the easiest thing to do. The one mistake I made was the supplements I was using were deficient in Vitamin A and so I lost most of my darts to this deficinecy. They would thin out and die. Since I am making sure that Vitamin A is supplied regularly to my frogs, my one surviving dart is thriving and gaining weight. I wish I knew about this problem before I lost the others.

Also dart frogs are know to drown easily and they can be very territorial. So they will need shallow water sources and lots of room. Thats why I have not run out to get my one surviving dart a buddy. Its funny the smaller the dart frog species the more territorial it seems to be. I know this to be true of _Oophaga pumilio_, a very expensive species.

Treefrogs seem to be much more forgiving than darts in the previous respects and I have excelled at their care. Darts I am still a little bit shakey, but I believe I am finally on track with the last of my darts, an "azureus".

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## Crystal6

> My success in darts is limited, so if there is anyone that is more informed, please feel to drop into the conversation and correct me if so needed.
> 
> First, for the most part you do have to raise your own food. That generally means fruit flies. Its easy enough, but the trick is to do it so you have a steady supply to feed out to your frogs. More often than not its a case of feast or famine. It has only been in the last six months that I have managed keep things going the way they should be. You have to know what species of fruit fly you are dealing with and how long it takes for that species to mature for you take make sure this happens.
> 
> Second, since you are limiting your frogs diet to foods you can readily supply like fruit flies, it will not have the proper nutrition it needs. So you will have to dust the fruit flies. Not the easiest thing to do. The one mistake I made was the supplements I was using were deficient in Vitamin A and so I lost most of my darts to this deficinecy. They would thin out and die. Since I am making sure that Vitamin A is supplied regularly to my frogs, my one surviving dart is thriving and gaining weight. I wish I knew about this problem before I lost the others.
> 
> Also dart frogs are know to drown easily and they can be very territorial. So they will need shallow water sources and lots of room. Thats why I have not run out to get my one surviving dart a buddy. Its funny the smaller the dart frog species the more territorial it seems to be. I know this to be true of _Oophaga pumilio_, a very expensive species.
> 
> Treefrogs seem to be much more forgiving than darts in the previous respects and I have excelled at their care. Darts I am still a little bit shakey, but I believe I am finally on track with the last of my darts, an "azureus".


Could I keep dart frogs alive with small crickets? (I have 2 ten gallons. One uses a 150 watt and the other a 100 watt. Thus I always have a supply of crickets of almost every age.)

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## Kurt

Should be able to, as long as you are gut loading and dusting them. Fruit flies and bean weevils are both easy to culture, so keep that in mind. The more variety you feed to your frogs, the better.

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## Crystal6

> Should be able to, as long as you are gut loading and dusting them. Fruit flies and bean weevils are both easy to culture, so keep that in mind. The more variety you feed to your frogs, the better.


My problem is my cricket population is getting kinda huge. I'm afraid I'm going to run out of ten gallon for them. You might think "just put some of them in a bag in the freezer" but... I'm not a fan of killing them. For food at least they're being used as nourishment to keep another creature alive but outside of that I don't like watching one die. (Yeah I know. Don't get sympathetic for the food.  :Embarrassment:  I think they're cute just like I think a frog or toad is cute)

Anyways! Poison dart frogs! How many can you keep in a ten gallon? How many can you keep in a twenty gallon?

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## Kurt

Depends on the species. I am no expert on dart frog compatability. I only have the one dart. What species are you interested in getting?

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## Crystal6

> Depends on the species. I am no expert on dart frog compatability. I only have the one dart. What species are you interested in getting?


D. auratus or  D. leucomelas? *hasn't decided due to being unsure what I will be able to find/care for*

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## Kurt

Those are both easy species to care for, relatively speaking. As far as territorial issues are concerned, I cannot advise you. Perhaps John or Ray (stemcellular) can.

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## John Clare

Firstly, what makes dart frogs challenging is that they are not very forgiving of mistakes.  Unless you can maintain very high humidity, a stable temperature window of no lower than 65 F at night (about 18 degrees Celsius) and no higher than about 80 F during the day (about 27 degrees C), don't consider it.  Also, you will need almost daily supplies of very small live food.  For the vast majority of dart frog enthusiasts this means culturing your own fruit flies.




> Anyways! Poison dart frogs! How many can you keep in a ten gallon? How many can you keep in a twenty gallon?


It's not that simple.  There are many different kinds of dart frog and some require large areas to move around (some examples: Golden Poison Dart Frogs - _Phyllobates terribilis_, also Dyeing Poison Dart Frogs - _Dendrobates tinctorious_) , some are arboreal (most thumbnail species like the Imitating Dart Frog - _Dendrobates/Ranitomeya imitator_), some are extremely territorial (Dyeing Poison Dart Frog is the best example - females literally kill each other), or a mixture of all of the above.

Probably the most forgiving to start off with would be one of the races/morphs of Dyeing Poison Dart Frog, _Dendrobates tinctorious_.  You could keep a pair in a 10g tank if it's landscaped correctly, but never more than 1 female unless you have a huge tank like a 75g.  Since we currently don't have any dart frog care articles, I recommend you read Devin Edmond's excellent beginners guide.

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## Crystal6

> Firstly, what makes dart frogs challenging is that they are not very forgiving of mistakes. Unless you can maintain very high humidity, a stable temperature window of no lower than 65 F at night (about 18 degrees Celsius) and no higher than about 80 F during the day (about 27 degrees C), don't consider it. Also, you will need almost daily supplies of very small live food. For the vast majority of dart frog enthusiasts this means culturing your own fruit flies.
> 
> 
> It's not that simple. There are many different kinds of dart frog and some require large areas to move around (some examples: Golden Poison Dart Frogs - _Phyllobates terribilis_, also Dyeing Poison Dart Frogs - _Dendrobates tinctorious_) , some are arboreal (most thumbnail species like the Imitating Dart Frog - _Dendrobates/Ranitomeya imitator_), some are extremely territorial (Dyeing Poison Dart Frog is the best example - females literally kill each other), or a mixture of all of the above.
> 
> Probably the most forgiving to start off with would be one of the races/morphs of Dyeing Poison Dart Frog, _Dendrobates tinctorious_. You could keep a pair in a 10g tank if it's landscaped correctly, but never more than 1 female unless you have a huge tank like a 75g. Since we currently don't have any dart frog care articles, I recommend you read Devin Edmond's excellent beginners guide.


O_O Ah. Ty. So these eat a lot more frequently then White's Treefrogs?

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## Kurt

Yes, they do. They are also diurnal.

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## Crystal6

> Yes, they do. They are also diurnal.


 :Big Grin:  Nice. My white's eats about 5-7 a week. (usually in one sitting)

Do these eat several a day? Or...? (I need to know so I don't get too many and wipe out my cricket population rather then just keeping it from growing out of control.)

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## Kurt

Mine eat many in a typical feeding. Like I said before you could be raise fruit flies and bean weevils to make sure there is enough food.

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## John Clare

Crickets are not a viable food for most dartfrogs (too big and not consistent enough in supply).  One of the larger morphs of tinctorious will easily down 30 or 40 _Drosophila hydei_ in one sitting (that's the larger kind of flightless fruit fly cultured in captivity).  Mine will eat that many each per day.

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## John Clare

I would like to add that, once you get the hang of it, dart frogs are relatively easy to look after, and certainly the easiest frogs to breed, but "getting the hang of it", particularly for people who don't do a lot of research beforehand, usually involves killing frogs along the way.  So please do that research first and understand that you're going to have to culture fruit flies - there's no way around it.

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## Crystal6

> Crickets are not a viable food for most dartfrogs (too big and not consistent enough in supply). One of the larger morphs of tinctorious will easily down 30 or 40 _Drosophila hydei_ in one sitting (that's the larger kind of flightless fruit fly cultured in captivity). Mine will eat that many each per day.


 :Frog Surprise:  30 or 40 daily per frog?

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## Crystal6

> I would like to add that, once you get the hang of it, dart frogs are relatively easy to look after, and certainly the easiest frogs to breed, but "getting the hang of it", particularly for people who don't do a lot of research beforehand, usually involves killing frogs along the way. So please do that research first and understand that you're going to have to culture fruit flies - there's no way around it.


Ah, so I CAN'T keep them alive on very young crickets then. Okay.

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## John Clare

You could but it would be a nightmare, and what happens when the cricket culture crashes?

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## Crystal6

> You could but it would be a nightmare, and what happens when the cricket culture crashes?


Cricket culture(s) crash more easily then fruit flies? (If they crash I need to run down to my neighbor's and buy some of theirs I guess. I hope they dont' crash considering I have 2 seperate aquariums. I had to make several trips down state for strange reasons so I kept getting large/small crickets from petco. This was about 5 month ago. I now have a bunch of adult, teenages, and newborn crickets growing at varying rates.  :EEK!:  It's crazy. I'm going to be in trouble in a few years unless a cricket consuming plague hits both aquariums.)

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## John Clare

If you have the time and space for culturing crickets, then by all means do that.  I would advise you to go with fruit flies though.  At least a fruit fly won't take a bite out of your $100 frog if it's hungry.

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## Crystal6

> If you have the time and space for culturing crickets, then by all means do that. I would advise you to go with fruit flies though. At least a fruit fly won't take a bite out of your $100 frog if it's hungry.


 :Big Grin:  Back when I was raising mice for a science experiment I ended up with about 5 10-gallon aquariums. I actually did have some fruit flies from raising crickets though. It's just that they could fly. (Making them useless as a feeder)

My crickets also generally don't like to eat when they've just been put in a new tank. Gutloading them is sorta a pain this way... (I've also never had one drown. O_O I don't know what people are doing wrong but, when they come in contact with a large body of water they tend to back away fearfully. My frog's cage is half and half and yet, not a single death.)

Wow I write too much... Anyways. if I DID get a dart frog I'd get the 25-40 dollar kind.  :Stick Out Tongue:  100 dollars for a frog is a little more then I'm prepared to pay right now. (Unless it's a very rare very enticing frog with amazing durability and life span. But White's don't seem to be that expensive)

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## Crystal6

> Since we currently don't have any dart frog care articles, I recommend you read Devin Edmond's excellent beginners guide.


 :Cool:  Thanks for the reading. I was relying on Doyles Dart Den.

This makes me ask: Where do I get a heat pad? They were recommended for crickets for my new aquarium, and now for poison darts.  :Frog Surprise:  Yet I can never seem to find one on the internet.

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## John Clare

I keep the frog room at about 65 F (18 degrees C) at night and let the lights above the terraria warm them into the 70s (early to mid 20s) during the day - I use fluorescent lights.  Actually the space heater is situated low down in the room, so the terraria, being above the heater, are more like 68 F (20 C) at night.  A similar arrangement may work for you.

I've never heated darts using a heatpad so I don't know how that would work out.  You certainly couldn't do it from underneath - instead you'd have to use a waterproof heat cable with a thermostat.

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## Crystal6

> I've never heated darts using a heatpad so I don't know how that would work out. You certainly couldn't do it from underneath - instead you'd have to use a waterproof heat cable with a thermostat.


I couldn't? Why not? *curiosity for all things science*

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## McLaura

Just to chime in on another really good dart frog resource - Dendroboard.com has a lot of really knowledgeable and helpful members.  My boyfriend started out with two leucomelas (the bumblebee dart frogs), and we've gotten a ton of information from there on raising them.  Also, I would recommend the leucs as a beginner dart frog, as they are less shy than some of the other types and fairly easy to raise.  The fruit flies can be a pain, but after about 6 months or so, we've finally gotten the hang of it and have a fairly steady supply.

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## John Clare

> I couldn't? Why not? *curiosity for all things science*


Well I mean that you would have to be careful because most people construct dartfrog terraria with a drainage/water layer at the bottom.  It's always dangerous to use an unregulated heat mat/heat pad which is in direct contact with glass that has water on it.  You could drastically reduce the danger by using a thermostat or just a "dimmer" on the heat mat.




> Just to chime in on another really good dart frog resource - Dendroboard.com has a lot of really knowledgeable and helpful members.  My boyfriend started out with two leucomelas (the bumblebee dart frogs), and we've gotten a ton of information from there on raising them.


You are quite correct.  I have used dendroboard over the last few months and I have found it to contain a lot of information and some nice people.  

However, the more I use it, the more I have come to realise that it has incredibly overbearing rules about what you can and can't say.  For example, you can't talk about *any* vendor on that forum, you can't review *any* products you've used, and the moderators/admins are overzealous with the censorship button when they don't like where a conversation is going.

I've been winding down my posting over there lately because I don't want to be seen to be endorsing those policies.  Some of the dendroboard moderators have tried to convince me that they believe it's necessary to run a big forum that way, not realising that I have run Caudata.org successfully since 2001 - a forum of comparable size to dendroboard and far older, yet without the overbearing censorship.  Anyhow, I'll get off my soap box now  :Smile: .

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## firefly

> My problem is my cricket population is getting kinda huge. I'm afraid I'm going to run out of ten gallon for them. You might think "just put some of them in a bag in the freezer" but... I'm not a fan of killing them.)


You could always do what I do when the food insects get too big, take them back to your pet store & let them have them back for their larger stock to eat. Sometimes they will give you something in return, but if not then at least they're not wasted. 

My hoppers rapidly get too big for my tiny toads, so they exchange for a new tub of 3rd instars free which is great.

Just a suggestion  :Big Grin:

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