# General Topics > Vivarium, Terrarium & Enclosure Discussion >  New 25 gallon vivarium

## Jace

This is our first attempt at a vivarium....practice run for the 55 gallon we have coming later this month.  So far, the FBT love it-they started barking and cooing within minutes of being put in here.  We also added another member to this community, bringing the total up to 6 (2 browns and 4 greens).  I have live plants in there, but if they die, I am switching to silk!!

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## John Clare

Very nice indeed.  Is the divider a sheet of glass or something else?  I wish you luck keeping the terrestrial substrate out of the water though ;(.

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## Johnny O. Farnen

Looks god to me1

You will have to net some floating substrate out of the water feature occasionally, however, if you add a bit of terrestrial moss, live or otherwise as a "door mat" At the entrance to the water feature, this will keep any stray substrate in the water to a minimum.

Excellent work!

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## Jace

> Looks god to me1
> 
> You will have to net some floating substrate out of the water feature occasionally, however, if you add a bit of terrestrial moss, live or otherwise as a "door mat" At the entrance to the water feature, this will keep any stray substrate in the water to a minimum.
> 
> Excellent work!


 
Thanks!  And an excellent idea about the terrestrial moss.  I will have to give that a try as I am using a small fishing net to get the bits of substrate out.  The toads think it's a game, though, as they swim into the net and won't come out!!

John, we used a piece of plexiglass for the divider, and just cut it down to size.  I'm thinking I should have angled it a bit higher for more water, but so far the toads aren't complaining.  We know what to do different for next time.

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## Johnny O. Farnen

B. orientalis really enjoy having aquatic plants in their water features. They generally do not dive deep. Mine is chocked with java moss which they enjoy hanging out on top of.

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## Jacob

Loving the Tank! Also the Plexiglass Seperator is Perfectly Placed down, Very nice.

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## JeffX

I love the tank.  It looks good.  Good luck keeping the substrate from getting into the water.  My FBT's are always dragging stuff into the water of their tanks.

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## Username

Loving It! how Much did it cost that is a very nice tank, Its also a creative one. And its perfect for FBT. Question, Is it a bother to clean it? It looks like it would be.  :Cool:

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## Jace

Thanks everyone for the nice compliments!  The FBTs are loving it, but man do they ever drag everything in with them.  I'm thinking of trying another substrate-anyone have any suggestions?  

Username: I had the tank previously filled with fish, and it's been so long since I bought it, I can't remember the price.  But to buy the plexiglass and the substrate to layer, it was around $25 dollars.  The most expensive was the aquarium safe silicone.  

Johnny, I am going to try some java moss...if you hear cursing, it is not going well!   :Wink:

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## Jace

Sorry, forgot to answer a question: cleaning it.

At first I was kind of stumped, but I then used a turkey baster (which reminds me, I have to buy another one now) and sucked 99% of the water out.  Then I used a chemical free scrubbie, paper towel and then filled it back up.  Took about 20 minutes from start to finish.

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## Username

Hmm, Turkey Baster, That's an Awesome and Unique way to clean it :B

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## Jace

> Hmm, Turkey Baster, That's an Awesome and Unique way to clean it :B


Wish I could take credit for it, but truth be told, someone else mentioned using a baster in another thread and I slapped my forhead and thought "why didn't I think of that???".  I'm not sure how to go about cleaning the substrate part without tearing it all up, but it should be good for a couple of months at least.  I hope-that could be a big project!!

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## Username

Hehe, Substrate can be difficult to clean, Sometimes you even have to take all off it out and Replace it.

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## Johnny O. Farnen

> Wish I could take credit for it, but truth be told, someone else mentioned using a baster in another thread and I slapped my forhead and thought "why didn't I think of that???".  I'm not sure how to go about cleaning the substrate part without tearing it all up, but it should be good for a couple of months at least.  I hope-that could be a big project!!



A small kitty litter scoop works well, as does a plastic spoon. Snag up the feces when you see it, and plan for about a bi-annual complete substrate change.

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## Amphibians

Its a whole lot easier to syphon your water out, all you need is some plastic tubing, should take a few minutes.

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## Mattiez

I can't quite tell, but are those woodchips for substrate? If so, you might want to change that, as it may be an impaction risk.

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## Jace

So far I haven't had a problem with the toads ingesting anything, but I can tell you that I am really sick of fishing debris out of the water!!  As well, from watering the plants-which are still alive amazingly!-I have water build up underneath.  I saw on another thread of including a syphoning tube which would have been great to think of orginally.  Oh well.  I am planning on changing the substrate and adding another plant or two to add to ground cover.  I would welcome any and all suggestions.  My goal is to get rid of the plastic plant I have floating in the water for them.

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## Trohr

> Hmm, Turkey Baster, That's an Awesome and Unique way to clean it :B


I clean my frog's water dish by sucking out the water with one of those curved syringes you get from the dentist when they pull your wisdom teeth out :]

Awesome vivarium- everything looks nice, and soft for the critter bellies~




> I'm not sure how to go about cleaning the substrate part without tearing it all up, but it should be good for a couple of months at least. I hope-that could be a big project!!


In my vivarium I use nothing but large wood chips, sphagum moss, river rocks, cork bark, and silk leaves/ plants. To get it all clean I built myself a chicken wire screen that's stapled to a sturdy 2X4 frame. When I'm ready to clean everything I pull the frogs out, dump the entire tank onto the screen, take it outside, and scrub/hose the hell out of it. Comes out smelling fresh, and clean.

Not sure if you would want to do that to your substrate, but it's an idea :]

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## Jace

Thanks Trohr-the toads really like it as well!  They now spend as much time on land as they do in the water, hiding out in the plants and climbing over the driftwood.  I'm having problems keeping the water portion clean and clear-I think my underwater filter is not capable of keeping up with 6 toads who bring in everything but the kitchen sink into the water.  

You cleaning idea is one I will keep in mind-thanks for the suggestion!   Finding that balance between what the toaders will love and what will be more convienant for me is a fine line I haven't found yet...but I won't quit until I do!  Cheers.

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## Dwhiteman11

Frog moss worked good for me. I have a 20 gallon tank set up similar to yours. I cut a piece of plexy glass and siliconed it straight up and down and I put a waterfall in the water. The frog moss stays together a lot better with hardly any loose stuff.

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## Jace

*I am going to try experimenting with moss soon, as I have a couple of other tanks that could benefit from it once I get them set up.  However, I have completely changed the toad tank to a water enclosure with turtle docks as land areas and silk plants hanging from the side.  The toads call day in and day out, so I think they like it! *

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## bshmerlie

When you get a chance why don't you post a picture of how you have your tank set up now.  I also do the same thing with the turtle docks and the water base.  It makes for keeping messy toads clean and low maintenance. I even carved out a section in one of my turtle docks for a live plant just to add color.

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## Deku

Nice tank. But I cant see well since I cant click it open so Iam looking at a distance picture. So my question is... Is that gravel in the land area? Or soil? Sorry I cant tell.

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## Jace

> When you get a chance why don't you post a picture of how you have your tank set up now. I also do the same thing with the turtle docks and the water base. It makes for keeping messy toads clean and low maintenance. I even carved out a section in one of my turtle docks for a live plant just to add color.


*Cheri, I have included a couple of pics of what my FBT tank looks like right now; I have slightly less water in it.  I cannot decide whether to add gravel or sand, or just leave it bare, as it makes it fairly easy to clean up.  FBTs sure are messy!!   I love the turtle docks and I would love to add live plants, but my success rate for the plants is dismal....any suggestions would be great as my toads are used to me experimenting with their setup every few months! * 

*Kevin, that is jungle bark you are seeing in the original pictures.  I got rid of it pretty fast as it stuck to the toads and got in the water and was a general pain the you-know-what.  I then switched it to soil with a top layer of moss before changing it completely to the setup you see below.  Typical woman-always changing her mind!! *

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## abeloneto

How beautiful colours!
And I would put some aquatic plants in it as well.
That makes me remember  I need to buy some new ones myself.  :Wink: 
But otherwise very nice indeed!
 :Smile:

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## Jace

*Thank you!  What aquatic plants would you recommend?  I was told Duck weed, but I am having a heck of a time finding any. *

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## Deku

Just wanted to say:
you can get cheaper lights/hoods in a hardware store rather than a petstore. Which in a petstore you pay an arm and a leg for a hood and lights(100-200depending on size of hood and quality, lights-50-80bucks)
 I found lights as cheap as 20 bucks in lowes! I bought two tubes! They were full spectrum lights. They are just as good as any light in a petstore. Oh also dont ever use "basking" lights. They dont produce alot of amount of uvb/uva radiation. They're just like any regular lightbulb in a pretty little box. If you want a bulb rather than a tube go for a vapor bulb. They throw off some heat and enough uvb/uva. Also stuff like "aquarium" glue you can find it in a hardware store for cheaper. In a petstore Id find it for 10bucks and in a hardware store I actually found one for 4bucks. Which in the long runs save money for more stuff, for the frogs or any other stuff. Though Ived been known to bargain hunt here and there I have to do it more when it comes with my animals since their stuff cost alot of cash. If its uvb/uva lighting you need go for ones that dont throw off heat. Cause if they do and water splashes a little bit on them by any chance they well break(when hot things meet cool water they break. Well depends). :O As for  heat lamps. You may want to be carefull with them as well. I found that out the hard way. They sometimes can explode(even if the wattage is right), though this is my experience. It never happened to my friend, just thought Id share my findings and personal experience. Also when you look for lights, I think frogs/toads normally dont get alot of radiation. But here is the thing when light travels its 1000 of uvb hitting the ground. While when you use a normal light it just throws off 40. As for full spectrum lights can mimic the spectrum, but they wont really go that high.


Edit: I was a little bit off in the numbers. Here is what the page said 
"As light travels to the earth, the ground is hit by 1,000,000 lux, and even in the forext canopy its hit by 7,000 lux. while a normal light only produces 40lux."

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## Deku

tortoisetrust.org/articles/lighting.html
I know, I know frogs and turtles have different care requirement. But even if they dont "need" uvb as much as a reptile like a tortoise or turtle or even iguana. I think they will benefit from having SOME uvb/uva put off onto them. Just take a look at that article. Of course this only applies to diurnal creatures or if you wish it to be more natural. You know like getting a full cycle. For my terrarium Iam sure I am going to give off some uvb. Even if the toads hide during the day. Just some food for thought. If the animal is hidden in leaf litter in nature. Or digs under the earth a few inches deep. Iam sure they still soak up some rays, not as much as they would be if fully exposed but still enough. 

This is out of what I think. 

Hopes this help.

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## Jace

*Thanks Kevin-I will definitely keep that in mind.  Right now, with froglets and toadlets all around, I don't have time for plants....but one day I will give it a good honest try!  And then scream for help!! *

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## Deku

> *Thanks Kevin-I will definitely keep that in mind.  Right now, with froglets and toadlets all around, I don't have time for plants....but one day I will give it a good honest try!  And then scream for help!! *


I remember hearing someone say on this forum about how frogs and toads dont need light. But... In all honesty in nature they still get some uvb/uva penetrating the ground to them. Or wherever they are. Since this set up is for firebellies you may want to give it a whirl. Its not going to hurt them either way. So why not try? I think this would be good for fish too and any animal in all honesty.

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## Jace

*They are set up next to a window that is frequently open (the shades that is) and I've noticed that they will sit on the turtle docks and bask in the sun.  And they face the window, too.  It's kind of cute in a Pod People kind of way-9 toads all facing the same direction, not moving....I've watched too many horror movies apparently!!*

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## Deku

> *They are set up next to a window that is frequently open (the shades that is) and I've noticed that they will sit on the turtle docks and bask in the sun.  And they face the window, too.  It's kind of cute in a Pod People kind of way-9 toads all facing the same direction, not moving....I've watched too many horror movies apparently!!*


You know glass reflects the rays of the sun. So only a very small percent gets in? Especially if your window is closed. Theyd get a very small amount of it. They should have more uvb and uva exposed to them. 

Though that is adorable. My toads are a little bit weird. They like to bask too. The larger one will sit on the heighest top of the small terrarium to soak up the rays and then the other ones followsuit him. I do this with my turtles light. Like I put it next to my turtles  tank since its light its very powerful. But since its a distance of two feet it gets a certain ammount. Which for now is okay. I want to expose them to atleast 7,000 lux. Or 10,000lux.

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## Brian

> *Thank you!  What aquatic plants would you recommend?  I was told Duck weed, but I am having a heck of a time finding any. *


If you're ok using wild plants, you might be able to harvest some from a swamp/pond. It's pretty rampant out here, maybe it's not in BC? If it is, it's a spready little plant that you can cull without any fear of disturbing its progress. Actually, it usually just expands to instantly fill the space.

I'd use duckweed for my goldfish, but it gets in their filter so they get Canadian Pondweed, another cull from the wild. It's an easy to grow plant that will survive indoors, underwater, and it's safe for fish (they eat it), but I haven't used it for frogs.

I think you've said before you've managed to kill pothos? It's water tolerant as well. You can propagate it by putting cuttings of the vine into a jar filled with water and leaving in a window or under an artificial light. This way you can always have backups if the frogs manage to smash it.

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## Deku

> If you're ok using wild plants, you might be able to harvest some from a swamp/pond. It's pretty rampant out here, maybe it's not in BC? If it is, it's a spready little plant that you can cull without any fear of disturbing its progress. Actually, it usually just expands to instantly fill the space.
> 
> I'd use duckweed for my goldfish, but it gets in their filter so they get Canadian Pondweed, another cull from the wild. It's an easy to grow plant that will survive indoors, underwater, and it's safe for fish (they eat it), but I haven't used it for frogs.
> 
> I think you've said before you've managed to kill pothos? It's water tolerant as well. You can propagate it by putting cuttings of the vine into a jar filled with water and leaving in a window or under an artificial light. This way you can always have backups if the frogs manage to smash it.


Agreed but by propagating it, you should know itll take a while for it to grow roots and all. In any case you would just want to take 3inches of the stalk with a leaf of course and put it in small jar with water that contains nutrients(poo?). Make sure the leaf doesnt get wet. A wet leaf is bound to rot. 

As for taking wild plants and putting them in a tank Id say you should "quarantine" the plants for a couple of weeks. Personally Id use meds used for fish. Just make sure the plants can take itand that its either safe for plants or if it isnt is used in half way.  Im alittle bit paranoid about aquatic plants when it comes from ponds and introducing them with a species of animal that isnt even native to this region.  As for spreading duckweed and any sort of pond plant. I dont think its that hard to do so. Duckweed  is like something that you cant kill. Its very hardy.  and spreads like a wild fire.

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