# Frogs & Toads > Fire Belly Toads (Bombina) >  Spinning FBT to the right

## famedfrogs

Hi.  I am hoping that someone here can help me with my 2 FBT.  They are both spinning in circles and don't bounce/walk like they used to.  My first one was very happy and playing in his tank always watching what I do and exploring.  He was given to me for Christmas and he was alone so I went and got another one to keep him company.  The one I got started spinning in the swimming pool and NEVER came out.  The worried me so I took him out and got a seperate tank for him.  Well I thought he was doing better, I seen him eat and jump, so I decided to put him back with the other one.  Now they are both spinning and really skinny.  They eat and I've seen them eat.  I only use distilled water, feed gut loaded crickets, use a heat pad under the tank and I always make sure they are clean.  I used to use bottled water but talked to a man that works in a reptile zoo in Palm Bay Florida who told me distilled water would be better.  Can anyone help me?  I would like to put them back together but I can't until they are happy and healthy again.  The 2nd one was never really healthy but my christmas present FBT was very healthy and happy I think.

Thank you in advance for your suggestions.

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## Leefrogs

I know nothing bout fbt, but distilled is a no no. It strips the minerals out of the frogs, distilled is used as a medical treatment, or fir misting if u have water that leaves spots

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## famedfrogs

Thank you so much for this information.  I happen to still have my nestle bottles and will start first thing tomorrow to change it out.  I keep Mr. Happy , the Christmas one, at work and I have the one I purchased here at home.  Any and All information is very helpful.  This site seems like the only site that I can get real help from and I thought that the vet tech at the zoo would have been helpful.  Again Thank you.  This is really great and helpful.

Just another FYI on what I feed.  I feed the crickets potatoes, carrots and fruits.  I hope this is ok.  I also put water in there carrier so they don't dehydrate.

Thank you again,
Dawn

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## Leefrogs

yep, fresh stuff is great!! They like fish food for protien, and u can sprinkle calcium and vitamins on your veggies for xtra nutients. If they're not eating eachother your doing fine. I also make my own food, blend dry catfood, oatmeal, and powdered milk( just for calcium) go 50/50 and 1/4 on milk(not nessisary if u give calcium dust on your veg)

U might wana google if sudden water changes have effect on them, as I don't know. But distilled is pure h2O, no elements at all, and spinning is a sign of nurological damage, hopefully they pull out of it.

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## Brit

Ginger's definitely right about the water, hopefully if you change it they'll be ok.

The cricket food looks fine as well, but I'm not sure they need another water source as long as the fruits and veggies you give them are fresh and moist. Just a quick tidbit I read online a little while ago: Tomatoes and bananas are supposed to be bad so I'd avoid those, but other fruits and veggies are ok. Don't ask me particulars I read it a while ago and don't have a definitive reason, but if anyone does it'd be great to know.

Most of the time I use celery as a main staple veggie for my crickets, along with any other fruits or veggies I happen to have lying around. I also supplement with Fluker's Cricket Quencher just to be sure they're getting the right calcium, but I don't think this is necessary as long as your constantly replacing their food source with fresh veggies and fruits.

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## Leefrogs

P.a. Always treat you water, bottled or not. They have dip tests at Walmart for 10$ , and I've tested "spring water" that had nitrate. Your tap water probably has less nitate than some bottled spring water. Treating the water is nessisary, dispite it's source

Side note--- nitrates are not reduced by water treatment!!!

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## famedfrogs

Gotcha. Ok.  I'll treat the water just to make sure and I so hope that they are not damaged.  I'd love them anyway and will keep taking care of them no matter what.  On the crickets, the food I've been using is potatoes, carrots, watermelon and peaches, foods only.  Then I gave a cap of water in their cage plus the white powder reptile supplement they gave me at the pet store which is a calcium mixture.  You both have been very helpful and I really do appreciate it.  I think I may try to do a video tomorrow at work and try to post it when I get home so you can see.  At this time I really need to get to sleep for work but you both have been great and I hope to show you and maybe you can get a better feel for what's going on.  Thank you so much and I will be on tomorrow.

Have a great night and THANK YOU.

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## Han

As a human being i expect you to gutload yourself every day, don't you?
What do you think will be the foodvalue of your (daily) excrements?
So if you can't do without crickets for food, you'ld better dust them with
an appropiate supplement. I, with all respect would skip the crickets and change the main menu into earthworms: no more "swimming in circles", no more "cloudy eyes",
no more "red legs", no more..................
What about the environment they live in. Size? Temperature? (get rid of the heather!).
Lighting? Size of waterpart? Ventilation? Soil? Hidingspots? Etc. etc.
No use for bottled water: just tapwater and leave it in a bucket for
some 3 days before using it, cheap and easy and good enough.

regards, Han

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## clownonfire

> As a human being i expect you to gutload yourself every day, don't you?
> What do you think will be the foodvalue of your (daily) excrements?
> So if you can't do without crickets for food, you'ld better dust them with
> an appropiate supplement. I, with all respect would skip the crickets and change the main menu into earthworms: no more "swimming in circles", no more "cloudy eyes",
> no more "red legs", no more..................
> What about the environment they live in. Size? Temperature? (get rid of the heather!).
> Lighting? Size of waterpart? Ventilation? Soil? Hidingspots? Etc. etc.
> No use for bottled water: just tapwater and leave it in a bucket for
> some 3 days before using it, cheap and easy and good enough.
> ...


Knowing Han a bit more now, I know he knows a great deal on FBT. Mine are very happy with crickets, and I do know others who use earthworms and it works great too.

One point that I really agree with Han is using tap water. It's much easier, and less expensive. And like he said, let it out for at least 24 hours for dechlorination, more if you can. You'll save money, and it will be perfectly suitable for your frogs.

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## Rocko

Just a comment on the gutloading, fruits carrots and potatoes certainly have some good elements, but I would advise some dark leafy greens in addition, preferably ones with high calcium and low oxalic acid content.

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## Leefrogs

What ones have high acid content!?  I give mine nori ( seaweed that for sushi roll) and they love it.

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## Rocko

A good discussion of oxalic acid, its problems and recommended foods can be found here  http://www.turtleforum.com/forum/upl...&#entry1048299.  My disclaimer being I know high oxalic acid (as the only food supply) is a problem for things that actually consume plants.  It may transfer from the crickets or simply reduce their intended calcium content, but I'm not a vet or a animal nutritionist so I can't say with any certainty.  As for nori I don't know.  The reason I made the recommendation I did, is that dark leafy veggies tend to have the best vitamin and mineral content, but if fed exclusively might have issues with calcium.

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## ARMS87

> I used to use bottled water but talked to a man that works in a reptile zoo in Palm Bay Florida who told me distilled water would be better.


Must of been the guy who just about sweeps the floors to give out advice like that!
Your poor toads  :Frog Surprise:

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## firebellytoadsx4

I have one of those cages that holds your crickets and has black tubes that they like to hide it. makes feeding a lot easier, and as a side note i usually give my crickets chopped up organic carrots, they seem to like this.

i was also wondering if it is safe to feed the toads superworms? i heard that they can hurt the frog from the inside, is this true?

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## Leefrogs

I always pinch their head, crush the jaws from the side, just in case. I don't know if it's true, but my frogs accept anything from my fingers, dead or not.

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## inkrealm

NONONO NO SUPERWORMS PLEASE ><
crickets. PINHEAD crickets. and earthworms are great BUT CHOP THE WORMS UP INTO TINY BITE-SIZE PIECES. you don't wanna get them impacted. NO MEAL WORMS. they are too large and too hard and they cannot digest them and they're not all that nutritional any way, and yes, like the superworms, they will attack your frog and can cause internal damage. NEVER FEED THEM WORMS THAT ARE RED. these are night crawlers, they are not earth worms, and they are very bad for them. I always pull up a large picture of an earth worm on google images and make sure they match. distilled water messes up their osmosis, and some tap water can actually have lots of chemicals too. use spring water and treat it with the conditioners you get from the pet store >< 
if you HAVE to feed them any other kinds of worms, like meal worms, etc. because it's really all you can get, this should only be short term, you must crush their heads, and you should cut them up into small pieces. I can also glady give you a mixture to help you catch your own earthworms if you like ^-^ 
do they have some plants to hide in? they may feel threatened by each other. how large is the enclosure? is one tons larger than the other? are they eating normally? do they have cloudy eyes, are their stomachs bloated, are they walking funny? 
do they have atleast one dark sheltered place? there are tons of little things ><;
oh hey, and has their coloring changed? when you had them together, how did they interact with each other?

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## KayIS

I just took my FBT to a zoo specialist in the area, who tells me spinning is a classic sign of neurological damage.  He thinks it is a parasite or a virus, and mentioned lungworms and irido virus.  I was given two different treatments, levamisole and metronidazole, to use in a water bath for the toad to soak in. These things spread via infected feces, and so keeping your tank scrupulously clean is essential, but he even admitted that when animals are kept in tanks it is almost impossible to keep stuff from spreading.  He recommended not introducing new animals to the tank as well, to quarantine them first. I will be treating all my toads, even the ones who are not spinning, so I can be sure that whatever this is, it is gone.

K

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