# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > Dart Frog Health & Illness >  Mycobacterium marinum, dart frogs

## John1

Hi, has anybody had any issues with _Mycobacterium marinum_ with dart frogs.  _M. marinum_ is apparently common in fish and can infect any animal, though more commonly poikilotherms.  My main concern is that I have rocks, tanks and wood from fresh and salt water aquariums that I would like to use in a dart frog vivarium. Some web sites say it is very persistent in the soil, almost ubiquitous.  If this is the case then it would likely be present in plants and soil so wood and rocks from an aquarium would pose only a slightly increased chance of inoculation ?

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## Carlos

Hello and welcome to FF  :Smile:  !  Although uncommon; it happens and currently one of our most experienced members is dealing with this nightmare in their collection.  The problem is not limited to your pets; _M. marinum_ can affect humans in a nasty way too.  

If re-using tanks can clean with bleach or Zoo Meds Wipe Out.  Woods and rocks can be baked for 1 hour in oven (250F) and then let cool slowly in it overnight.  

Not that you have it, but if reusing soil or plants, it's certain that any pathogen in them can be transferred to their new home  :Frown:  .

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## bill

you can do a mild bleach dip on plants to keep from transferring any bacteria. it's not as common as you would think. normally attacks guppies and labrynth fish, like gouramis and bettas. and most likely, if the tanks have been broken down and the items have dried out, the bacteria died. most bacteria have certain requirements to survive and thrive. not all, but most. like carlos said, boiling or baking will kill it. i wouldn't be concerned about the soil your plants are in. if you have ever had a cut or sore on your fingers or hand while handling your plants or soil, you would already know by now if the bacteria was present.

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## John1

Thanks, I didn't think of baking rocks and wood.  In fish there are apparently two types of _M. marinum_ one form that can quickly kill a large number of fish and a slower growing form that can take many months to kill a fish.  Would you know if dart frogs succumb quickly after exposure or does it take a longer period of time for symptoms to appear.

Sincerely,
John

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## Lija

I missed that thread... That would be me dealing with that stuff now.

 All I have to say while not so common and opportunistic there is only one M. Marinum. The one that I would never suggest to joke about. And as of now I'm gonna be triple paranoid  :Smile: 

 there is NO treatment in frogs and reptiles, everyone who has symptoms or have been in contact has to be euthanized. Incubation period is up to 5 months, it is treatable in humans but it is a long process and super strong antibiotics  for long time involved, the ones that can easily ruin digestive system and not only in no time. Our doc said that rarely marinum can show up as tuberculosis in humans, that is when you're screwed... 

 Disinfection - only 100% guarantee Is to burn everything! destroy and never use again. 100% bleach works 50%,  70% alcohol works 80%.  I destroyed everything, tank disinfected with undiluted bleach, then alcohol then bleach again and then I got rid of it to the home who was willing to take chances. 
Drying out won't do anything, several cases are described in bearded dragons that were housed in second hand tanks. 
So far nobody else shows symptoms, I'm hoping it will stay this way,  usually everybody are under constant mild quarantine so I'm hoping that will help in that situation. The only possible way for that stuff to get to our house was with a live plant that I got, washed leaves, pot and placed it in a tank. Big big mistake!

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## Lynn

John1,

Are you dealing with Mycobacterium marinum , are you questioning what to do if it should happen,
 or how to prevent it  ?

I would not re-use anything from my fish tank (as 'disinfected' as it might be )  ...for a frog's enclosure. 

 :Butterfly:

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## John1

Hi Lija, sorry to hear about your frogs.  I didn't sterilize my tank, only washed it.  Apparently the symptoms can vary in fish from skin lesions to affecting internal organs sometimes resulting in bloating.  Are the symptoms in frogs generally skin lesions.

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## John1

After I set up a vivarium using a fish tank it occurred to me that _M. marinum_ could be a problem.  I could not find much information on the internet, most of the posts that were free, (didn't want to pay the $35.00 or so for most journal articles), only discussed fish and people.  Lija said the incubation period can be up to 5 months.  I was curious about the symptoms in frogs.  Apparently fish usually present lesions or swollen abdomns I was wondering if in frogs if it was 
most commonly skin lesions or if it also affected the internal organs.  Apparently a zoo put a lizard in a tank that previously housed fish, however, it had been dry for 2 years but never sterilized. The lizard was subsequently infected with _M. marinum_ presenting on a toe.

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