# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > General Discussion >  Substrate help

## dbizal

Hi all, 

Just sorting out my substrate and as I want to be keeping Springtails and Woodlice in with my D. leucomelas I was wondering if I should mix up my substrate? I am also going to keep real plants. 

I currently have Eco-Earth of which is in a bucket now (I bought the condensed brick) and was wondering if I should mix anything in with it? I currently have some left over Tree Fern from when I built up the back of my enclosure, would that be good to mix in with it? 

I have bought some Oak Leaves to spread over the top of the substrate, as well as 3 different types of moss - I dunno if this is information you need but thought I would share it anyway. 

Any help is appreciated  :Smile:

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## bill

Coco fiber has zero nutritional requirements for plants, and the tree fern fiber will add a little bit. You can add some sphagnum peat moss to the mix, it will offer the plants iron, which they love. 

As far as springtails and wood lice, plan on keeping cultures of them because your frogs will snack on them whenever they have the opportunity, so you will have to reseed the tank from time to time.

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## dbizal

I have ordered the following:
1 x Oak-leavesx100
1 x Sphagnum-moss-pack-1.5L
1 x Tropical Pillow Moss
1 x Tropical Sheet Moss x 1

So should I mix in that Sphagnum in with the Eco Earth? Or should I buy something else to mix in with it?

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## bill

that is a different kind of sphagnum. that will be long fiber sphagnum moss. it is a dehydrated version of live sphagnum moss. you would want peat moss. similar item, but more like a dirt.

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## dbizal

I have some cocoa peat left over from my planted fish tank (yeah bad idea using peat in it, I know this first hand and was recommended wrongly), it is about a third of a compressed brick, I could water it down and mix that in? Would that help with plant growth?

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## bill

are you talking about a compressed bale of peat moss? if so, then yes, that would work. not sure why you had an issue using it in a planted tank, i use peat moss in all my planted tanks. i also use it in the aquatic sections of my paludariums. wouldn't put a tank tank together without it.

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## dbizal

This is the stuff buddy.

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## dbizal

Sorry to bump but would that stuff be ok to mix in with the Eco-Earth to allow better plant growth? ^^

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## bill

That is cocofiber. The same stuff as ecoearth. That explains why you had an issue with it in a planted tank. You want something more like this 
http://www.scotts.com/smg/goprod/mir...d70252/8200004
But not this brand, it has fertilizers in it.

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## bill

Come on! You're from Britain. Isn't Scotland like 70% peat bogs? Lol

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## dbizal

Haha, ok I will have a look round now. 

Well, I am the other side of the Country, so wouldn't know :P

Will this do the trick? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Ne...-/160950330476

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## dbizal

Not sure if you see the edit or not, so just getting your attention :P

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## Carlos

Can you get ABG type soil mixes locally?  Those are ready to use in a vivarium as is.  If not; here is the ABG formula (post no. 3) so you can obtain/mix ingredients yourself  :Smile:  .

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## dbizal

Not that I know of, I kinda want to get the substrate in now though, been looking at an empty tank enclosure for at least a week or so... haha. I have some Tree fern I can break up and mix in with the eco-earth. I will try and find some of the peat moss but I really have no clue what I am looking for really... lol.

I have this site where I can source certain things, is there anything here I could buy? http://www.dartfrog.co.uk/equipment/landscape.html

Or this: http://www.gocompost.co.uk/erin-mult..._p22424987.htm

Sorry for the lack of knowledge, I am trying to get all the information I need before I actually get my frogs.

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## bill

That's not the one either. I did miss the edit

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## dbizal

Argh >.< haha. 

I just posted above your last post also. Anything there? lol

I wish I was in the US... Would make things like this so much easier... and cheaper...  :Frown:

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## bill

I am going to look now. Was on my way home from work when I saw then post.

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## bill

I would go with their dendro soil. It's a compost loaded with micro fauna. Saves some steps. Being a compost, it should be chock full of nutrition for your plants.

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## dbizal

Should I mix that with the Eco-Earth or was buying the Eco a waste of time and money? lol

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## bill

You can mix it. You'll need it if that mix isn't enough substrate anyway

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## dbizal

Ah right, sweet. Well I was going to order some plants from that site anyway so can save on postage by ordering the mix at the same time. 

Any suggestions on plants whilst I have your attention? :P

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## bill

Oh, hold on, let me look lol

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## bill

Man, you can pretty much order anything that they have. They will all do well in a Viv.

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## Carlos

> ...I have this site where I can source certain things, is there anything here I could buy? http://www.dartfrog.co.uk/equipment/landscape.html
> ...


This site has pretty much everything you need.  Love those available _Excidobates mysteriosus_  :Smile:  !

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## dbizal

> Man, you can pretty much order anything that they have. They will all do well in a Viv.


Ah man, I was hoping you would recommend some for the D. leucomelas :P haha.




> This site has pretty much everything you need  !


Yeah, I just need to know what I am buying first haha. I was looking the other day and was like... I need everything here haha. My Moss from this place is coming tomorrow so will check the quality once it is here  :Big Grin:

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## bill

Well, the frogs really don't care what plants are in there. But if you wish to encourage breeding, then you want to have one or two bromeliads in there. (Yes, to those who know me, I am actually recommending broms lol) neoregalia species. Just choose a cultivar you like. My personal fav is neoregalia 'Hannibal lechter'. They don't even need soil to grow, you can just attach them to the background or  decor and they will love it.

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## dbizal

That Hannibal Lecther one is quite nice, but won't those spikes (thorns) be dangerous to the frogs? Also it is only a small Vivarium so not sure a medium sized plant will work in it?

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## bill

No. No spikes. How big
Is the tank again?

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## dbizal

It is the Exo Terra 30x30x45cm, however I have a false bottom and obviously the substrate will shrink the tank a little. 

This is what I have on my 'To Buy' list so far:

Neoregelia liliputiana
Neph. fluffy duffy
Dendrosoil-5L

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## bill

Hold on.....gotta do some math lol

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## bill

Oh wow, that's a small tank. Yeah, the neo will eventually take up most of the upper part of the tank. The fern will be cool in there. Maybe something like a red fittonia as well on the floor.

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## dbizal

Yeah it is tiny. I need a small brom really... Any suggestions from that site?

How many frogs can I have in that enclosure? I was looking at getting 3. 

Will see replies in the morning, it has gone midnight here lol.

Sent from my GT-S7500 using Tapatalk 2

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## dbizal

Morning all, 

Do you think I shouldn't have the Neo then Bill? Would it be too large? Smaller Broms would be something I would prefer really, like you said it is a small tank - I don't really want it being swamped haha.

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## Lynn

I believe you are considering leucs.
Given the opportunity, they enjoy climbing.
They will like to climb up to the brom.
So ,one lager one ( if it's your fav) would be fine.
Do what is pleasing to YOU.
You want to give them _a way_ to get up to it.
The will snuggle and share.
Mine hang over the sides like 'Gumi Bears'

Remember, be careful of choosing one that has sharp leaf edges.
They scratch their faces   :Frown: 

Keep in mind......this will NOT be your PDF 1st enclosure !!!!  :Big Grin: 
 :Butterfly:

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## dbizal

I am indeed, I have purchased this Vine thing which I will be covering in moss once I get my lighting system up and running. I will be hand misting for a while first, but need to get this substrate sorted out haha. 

I would rather do what is more pleasing to the frogs rather than myself  :Smile:  but if that plant would be fine I will get it. 

I wish I bought a bigger enclosure initially, but we have to start somewhere... Especially if they start to breed I am more than likely wanting to keep them rather than sell them on, but will only do what I can afford at the time and what is better for the frogs.

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