# General Topics > Food, Feeders, Live, Frozen, Culturing, etc >  ID help: Brown Wriggly Thing in with Crickets

## Brian

Hello. A few of these critters (see attached photos) came with my crickets. This was the largest one I could locate, and is about 12-13mm long. It can climb plastic, but not shiny packing tape. It is also quite fast (I cruelly chilled it for the pictures). The cricket breeding facility is in southern Ontario if it helps ID. I was wondering:

What is it?
Can I feed it to Gray Tree Frogs?
If so, can it be cultured easily?
Can I leave them in with the crickets?
Does it turn into anything?

If I knew what it was, I could probably sort out the rest, but I don't know insects very well. Thanks in advance for any assistance!

----------


## Johnny O. Farnen

That is a beetle larvae of some sort. I would be cautious of that cricket supplier as the presence of these is usually a sign of poor sanitation at the cricket farm. I happen to know an entomologist, so with your permission I will forward the pictures to him for a positive ID if you like.

----------


## snoopfroggyfrog

oh dear i found something very similar in with a tub of crickets i bought not 100% but it was a brown larvae with legs very much like your picture....... :Frown: 
Im glad i read this post ill watch out for that in the future......

----------


## Brian

> That is a beetle larvae of some sort. I would be cautious of that cricket supplier as the presence of these is usually a sign of poor sanitation at the cricket farm.


I didn't count the larvae at the time, but it looks like there are ~20 wriggling around with my crickets (they were an order of 500, 1/4" crickets). 

Maybe a third of the crickets were DOA, but they gave plenty extra and I was sure there were over 500 alive. They were packaged and delivered to the pet store by the supplier and picked up by me in the same day. Is this sort of casualty rate excessive? I'm new to this, so wasn't sure what to expect. Ideally, I'll be able to get them breeding, so I won't need to rely on any supplier.




> I happen to know an entomologist, so with your permission I will forward the pictures to him for a positive ID if you like.


That would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

----------


## 1beataway

That sounds excessive to me. I've never ordered crickets though. But at the store I work at, when we get crickets 10% or less are DOA. Sometimes it'll end up being closer to 5% or less.

----------


## Johnny O. Farnen

If my cricket suppliers delivered with that high of a mortality rate coupled with the beetle larvae, I would find a new supplier. Even in this cold time of the year, I never have more than about 5 DOA out of 1000 crickets per box- if any.

----------


## Tom

Johnny have you figured out what it is?

----------


## Bellerophon

wow, I've been passing over this thread since I figured it would be answered within the first response.  What you've found is a dermestid beetle larvae.  They eat flesh and are commonly used to clean museum specimens.  They can and will eat crickets.  If your getting one or two every so often then I wouldn't worry about switching suppliers.  Even the best are going to have issues with dermestid infestation.

----------


## Johnny O. Farnen

I suspected as much, but Lee confirmed it. My entomologist connection laughed at me for not remembering the name right off the bat.

I agree with Lee, one or two is not a big deal, but the numbers of dermestid beetle larvae in (common name in these parts is "carpet beetle") and mortality rate of the crickets you are getting really is unacceptable in my book.

----------


## Kurt

Thats what I thought they were, but wasn't certain or was sure on how to spell it. My guess is most crickets "farms" also raise these as well. The beetles are flighted, so do manage to get around.

----------


## Tom

Kurt why would cricket farms also raise these guys? What would happen if you fed these to your pets?

----------


## Kurt

I have fed the beetles to my fire-bellies and a few other critters from time to time. The hairs on the larva make me think they could be harmful if swallowed. 

Dermestid beetles are used in museums and similar insitutions to clean flesh from skeletons. If you have ever seen "Dirty Jobs" on the Discovery Channel you may have seen the episode in where they show this being done. Mike Rowe went to Skulls Unlimited and showed how they prepare skulls and skeletons for museums and private collectors. Here is a page their website explaining the process. http://www.skullcleaning.com/record_services.php?id=1

----------


## Kerry1968

I quite often get a couple of these larvae in with my crickets, I sent an email to one of the online suppliers that I have bought crickets from in the past, he told me they were harmless as both larva and beetle. I have put them in with my Kassina and they haven't caused any problems, though seem to live longer than the crickets!

----------


## PhiliusPhrog

Hi UncleChester. Those little critters are Hide Beetle larvae. I'm in the UK and we get 'em here too! I wondered what they were as well and looked into it. The beetles themselves thrive in abattoirs and enjoy the carcasses, hence the name "Hide". I can only imagine that they occur at some point in the crix breeding process and get dumped in along with the crix. Either that or they are added purposefully to consume any dead matter. I have fed them to my Whites tree frogs and so far so good. But I did hear that they may be able to eat their way out!! So promptly stopped. Hope this helps.

----------


## Kurt

> I have fed them to my Whites tree frogs and so far so good. But I did hear that they may be able to eat their way out!! So promptly stopped. Hope this helps.


 
That is impossible. As soon as the beetle makes it way to the stomach, the frog's stomach acids start to break it down. That alone should kill it. Secondly, once inside the frog how is the beetle going to be able to breath? I find most insects drown very easily and the inside of a frog is very wet.  :Smile: 

Insects do not breath like you and I. Most, if not all, of them absorb oxygen through numerous spiracles in their exoskeletons. Each spiracle goes directly to a certain organ and provides that organ with oxygen. So when the pores of the spiracles are covered by water or another substance, the insect is unable to breath and dies. An insect can drown easily even it's only partially submerged. If the spiracles that serve vital organs are covered, they will not be able to receive oxygen and will die.

----------


## Tom

Whoa that is interesting. Thanks kurt

----------


## Kurt

You're welcome. Its amazing what one can learn when one reads a book (or two)

----------


## Brian

A big thanks to all who responded (and Johnny's entomologist friend :Smile: ). Given that these larvae could potentially eat the crickets, I'll be removing these from my cricket home. I don't think I'll be feeding them to the frogs though. I was a little concerned about the hairs, and Kurt seconded this concern, so I may as well play it safe. 

I went to the reptile show in Mississauga this weekend and picked up some mealworms for a little more variety for the frogs and some waxworms for occasional treats (I'll try feeding them waxmoths as well). I've also found another cricket supplier to try in case my breeding setup doesn't work out.

Thanks again!
.

----------


## Kurt

You're welcome

----------


## 1beataway

> You're welcome. Its amazing what one can learn when one reads a book (or two)


What two books did you read to become so knowledgeable in everything?  :Frog Smile:

----------


## Kurt

Actually it was more than two books, but I wasn't going to count (or list) every book I have or read. I got the spiracle thing from a book called Mantids of the World (or something to that fact, I just can't remember the title or what I did with it.)

----------


## Julia

I too found these bugs in with the crickets that i bought at a pet store here in Canada.  When I asked the supplier what they were,  they said they did not know, but they thought they seemed harmless. I am finding so much useful information on this website!  :Smile:

----------


## Brian

Hi there, thought I'd give an update my feeder progress. I ended up needing to order more crickets, as my first batch was down to about 20 adults + a few stragglers about 3 weeks ago and I've only just yesterday removed my small tupperware for egg laying from the adults pen for incubation.

So 2 weeks ago I picked up 250 1/4" crickets from a different pet store (they were much cheaper), but the same cricket supplier. It's a little to cold here (-10C to -20C) for me to trust mail order from further away. The pet store screwed up and ordered 1000 by mistake, so they transferred 250 to a container for me. All were alive and there were no non-cricket passengers. This could have been because the pet store had to handle them and only live crickets were transferred to the new container. There did seem to be some very large crickets mixed in though, at least one full sized adult. That's odd, but fine by me as it gives more adults to keep the breeding up.

I murdered all my waxworms from November. Of the original 58, 2 were fed to frogs, 7 pupated and appear to be brownish/black and kaput. The remainder turned blackish and were definitely kaput. I'll try again when I have the tools to monitor the temp&humidity more closely.

My 500 mealworms are doing well, about 150 beetles so far, no young. I can't see any eggs in the substrate, but I understand they are tiny. I've been periodically replacing the beetle's substrate and putting the old stuff in a "nursery". I tried to keep the pupae container on a heating pad, but the beetles that emerged seemed messed up so I took it off. It was like their abdomen hadn't fully changed to an adult but they were walking around anyway (might have just been messed up wings). One of my frogs absolutely loves the mealworms and now attacks the tongs on sight, the other frogs will have nothing to do with them.

Cheers.

----------


## Brian

Another update, I had my first batch of pinheads hatch on Feb 13th. I've been counting as I remove them for feeding, and the 18 adults I had started with in the breeder bin produced roughly 500 crickets. Most of these 500 have gone on to be eaten, there's maybe 50 left for feeders, and a select few have laid eggs which began to hatch May 16th. So just over 3 months for a full generation cycle.

None have died from anything but frog related injuries or a few accidental squishings on my part. Of the last "250" store bought ones, I pulled 178 out alive for feeding and 96 that had died in the bin over the course of 6 weeks, so the ones I hatched seemed hardier? No changes in heating (17C-26C) or humidity, or diet.

I was getting concerned that my latest pinheads wouldn't be large enough for feeders before I ran out of big crickets until I checked my mealworm bin. I've scouring it every few weeks cursing at them for not breeding, but this time I found hundreds and hundreds of new mealworms! Some look to be a couple of molts old, so these should be ready to eat in a couple of weeks.

Cheers.

----------


## Tropicok

This is all good information.  I have a meal worm colony going but I leave it alone and it cycles nicely.  I was told not to disturb substrate.  Robin, I am so envious.  For some reason I can't get pinheads to hatch.  The last batch was a nice line of the eggs I could see through the container but they didn't hatch.  So, I'm trying again and will read more on info on this forum than advice and help from my zoo colleagues.  LOL   :Confused:  :Mad:

----------


## missclick

I know this is super late for a response to this thread but
I instantly recognized those as carpet beetle larvae ( i accidentally introduced them to my mom's house when i was little)

unfortunately, once you have them in your house, its nearly impossible to get rid of them

----------


## Brian

> I know this is super late for a response to this thread but
> I instantly recognized those as carpet beetle larvae ( i accidentally introduced them to my mom's house when i was little)
> 
> unfortunately, once you have them in your house, its nearly impossible to get rid of them


No problem, once I knew what they were I did some reading and found they could turn into pests. I disposed of them as I found them in the cricket bin, and haven't seen any outside the bin. I've also sterilized the bin since as regular maintenance. I should be safe :Smile:

----------

