# Frogs & Toads > Tomato Frogs, Painted Frogs & Microhylids >  Fireball, young male frog

## Robbie

I got two tomato frogs in a 36" long by 18"D terrarium. I kept them in moist ecoearth, one was a young male about 1 year old the other a female, much bigger that I adopted called Tang. 

Fireball has had a good appetite and a good personality all the time I've had him. I've kept them in a shelved cabinet for over a year. Their level on the cabinet didn't have a lot of height, which I didn't think would be a problem. Because I had only one attachment for the light, (which allow the light to clamp onto the wood on the side of the tank to direct in white light), they shared it with the Firebellies for a few hours a day. They didn't have the extra height because the carpenter messed up when building it for me. So they didn't have UV light on the top, I just dusted their crickets and worms with calcium & d3 and a small mix of multivitamins. 

A short while ago when cleaning the tank I noticed a small white substance in the enclosure, that looked like a chewed piece of white bubblegum with light blue lines in it. I thought for a moment it was a stomach, I heard of frogs doing that but they both looked and acted fine. Part of the problem is my carpenter build the cabinet higher then I specified and I cannot keep as close an eye on the frogs on the higher level. So I just kind of mist them, give them light and peak in on them sometimes. I threw the substance out hoping it wasn't a stomach.

A week later when I was taking a closer look now that Fireball wasn't so buried in soil I noticed he looked puffy. I washed my hands well and gently removed him into a small moist enclosure to examine him. This what I noticed:

Slightly puffy cheeks
tiny drop of blood by lip

I freaked out and tried to figure out what to do. My next few days were 16 hour work days between work and my placement from college. My roommate took him to the vet and they determined that what he coughed up was likely an infection in his stomach. They said he had soft jaw, which they said was due to lack of UV light. From what I've read tomato frogs do not require UV light. I thought the food dusting was enough for them, Tang has showed no issues and I've had her 2-3 years. They also thought it might be the pet store cause frogs often have parasites from many pet stores they said. But my PetSmart was a vet look over all the frogs, but i guess its still possible. 

 They said he needed day to day in house intensive care, but because he was young they believed he could make a full recovery. But I can't afford full day to day care so I had to surrender him to them. I thought it was best for him to stay with them to get what he needs so I paid the vet visit bill and now I have just one Tomato frog.

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## Jason

I've read tomato frogs are crepuscular, so would receive some exposure to UVB in the wild and probably have adapted to use it but in short periods of time. Relying on D3 from the diet is a hit or a miss depending on the species. When relying on D3 from supplements then there's a lot of guesswork in how much to actually provide and I see lots of variations on how often to supplement from care sheets on all animals. Supplements would still need to be used when using UVB lights but you could use a low level D3 one to be safe, like repashy's calcium plus LoD so to provide some D3. With the repashy calcium plus its designed to be used at every feed so you don't have to worry about under supplementing. I provide my american green tree frogs with UVB, my fire bellied toads had UVB, I'll be getting darts soon and they'll have UVB and in fact the only animal I don't give any to is the horned frog, as it would have such a varied diet in the wild it would probably get D3 from whole prey items such as fish, small mammals and other frogs. Most frogs and toads have been said to have no UVB requirement but now as more information and thought it put into it that's no longer the case. 

http://www.amphibianark.org/pdf/Husb...tamin%20D3.pdf
http://www.arcadia-reptile.com/wp-co...omato-frog.jpg

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## Robbie

Thanks Jason. The way my cabinet is set up I can provide UVB for all my frogs except the ones on the top shelf. I may have a way around that to though. They can be the ones that has the side light attachment with a clamp to divert the light in from the side instead of over top. At least until I get a new cabinet build in April. For now on all my frogs will get UVB light, I'll not chance this happening to Tang. I lost 3 tomato frogs. The first two; Cali and Fluffy, were old when I adopted them, so that may have been a factor to. But for 2 years when I adopted them they showed a voracious appetite until the last week or so.

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## Jason

If you're struggling for a light fixture on the top ones, you could use a tube and install it inside the tank with a waterproof controller such as ones used for aquariums. If you installed the light inside you could use a 2%. I would say old age as well but frogs in captivity can usually live quite long, unless they were really old when you got them.

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## Robbie

I had lost those two tomatos fairly close to one another. Fireball I was told by the vet had a strong chance for recovery. I called up to check up on him and they told me that he died. They said it was due to impaction. I use EcoEarth. They said he ate up some of the soil, probably eating a cricket. They suggested I change substrate. But I lost a frog when I used peat moss. My place can be dry at times so I mist the soil good, but i always wring out most of the moisture when I put in clean soil. Its never soggy just moist. 

I don't know if it was a freak incident or if I need to find another kind of substrate.

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## Jason

Eco earth pretty much is the safest substrate to use and there are no safer alternatives other than paper towels, which are completely unnatural, need changed every day and don't allow for burrowing. Make sure temps are fine and healthy frogs should pass coir (eco earth) fine

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## Xavier

Could he have eaten something before you got him? That's what I think is going on

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## Robbie

> Could he have eaten something before you got him? That's what I think is going on


Well I've had him for quite a few months. Maybe it was lack of the UVB light. He had it just a few hours a day, shared with fire bellies. Now they have it each till evening. I got 1 tomato frog left, an adult female. She's in the 36"L x 18"D by herself. I don't know if I should get another tomato or wait a so many years till she's gone and get a beginner dart frog. Considering I'd have to have the dart frog shipped (none available where I live), I might go for the first idea.

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## Jason

You could wait until then and get darts but I mean a 36 x 18 x 18 inch terrarium is going to cost a bomb to set up for darts and keep in mind it will need a few modifications, finer mesh, sealing the gaps in the doors and some glass on top of the screen. If you're beginning with darts you'd probs be best getting a smaller viv and a custom one designed for darts. I'd personally get another tomato frog, or even 2 more as you could easily fit that amount in that size of viv and just install a 2% UVB tube inside.

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## Robbie

> You could wait until then and get darts but I mean a 36 x 18 x 18 inch terrarium is going to cost a bomb to set up for darts and keep in mind it will need a few modifications, finer mesh, sealing the gaps in the doors and some glass on top of the screen. If you're beginning with darts you'd probs be best getting a smaller viv and a custom one designed for darts. I'd personally get another tomato frog, or even 2 more as you could easily fit that amount in that size of viv and just install a 2% UVB tube inside.


By bomb are we talking more like a few hundred or upwards of $1,000+ ?  I don't know of anyone in my area that would do it. Pets Unlimited does an amazing job where I live on their own but their employees (or at least the woman I talked to who felt she could talk for everyone) said they wouldn't risk doing it for a customer cause of possible damages by accident. So tomato may be the best opinion like you said.

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## Jason

Don't think that much but probably a couple hundred due to the size of the tank and if it's your first time keeping darts and something goes wrong, that could be a lot of money down the drain if you have to take the viv apart. However, I suppose you could rinse and reuse the plants and if you have had experience with planted set ups and quarantine the animals properly you might not need to worry about it. Personally I would start off with a smaller viv and then when I'd be confident try a large tank. By dart frog tank I mean you actually get tanks designed for darts, so they hold humidity well and prevent fruit fly escapes, they're quite cheap as well but you'll still have to do the planting yourself unless you can find a place that will do it for you as well.

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## Robbie

> Don't think that much but probably a couple hundred due to the size of the tank and if it's your first time keeping darts and something goes wrong, that could be a lot of money down the drain if you have to take the viv apart. However, I suppose you could rinse and reuse the plants and if you have had experience with planted set ups and quarantine the animals properly you might not need to worry about it. Personally I would start off with a smaller viv and then when I'd be confident try a large tank. By dart frog tank I mean you actually get tanks designed for darts, so they hold humidity well and prevent fruit fly escapes, they're quite cheap as well but you'll still have to do the planting yourself unless you can find a place that will do it for you as well.


Nova Scotia I can't even find a place or person selling dart frogs, and without a car I can't get out west. However my friends and I are planning a road trip to Quebec, so its possible to look into a viv at that time. I'll wait and see and maybe get a small one. Doesn't seem to be a strong interest in frogs where I live, so I haven't even seen a viv to buy anywhere. Just in pictures and some setups similar to it for Firebellies.

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## Jason

You might need to order one if you can find someone who'll make them as they might take a few weeks to build. Best off constructing the viv and letting it sit first for a few weeks before getting the frogs just so the plants can grow and make sure everything's alright. By small I mean like a 20 gal cube but that Exo Terra tank you have is like 50 gallon or something. I'm going to be using a spare 18 x 18 x 18" exo terra for my first darts being  2-3 leucs but will have to do a few adjustments as mentioned.

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