# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  A few new retf pics as they wake up this evening :)

## Heather

Serena


Callie


I'll add more as they wake.

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## Dreadfrog

> Serena
> 
> 
> Callie
> 
> 
> I'll add more as they wake.


Wow . There so chubby . My new ones are so skinny compared . I guess cause there so young .. Very nice

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## Heather

Lol! Mine are just piggies  :Big Grin: . Mine were thin when I first got them too. Some of mine are chubbier than others  :Smile: . 

Are yours settling in nicely?

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## Dreadfrog

Yes . There eating good and pooping a lot haha . The little I see them . There doing good  :Smile: 


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## Heather

> Yes . There eating good and pooping a lot haha . The little I see them . There doing good 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Good to hear  :Smile: . Yes, you have to be a bit of a night owl to watch them.

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## Heather

Serena getting ready to shed and sporting his hunting outfit  :Smile: .

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## Heather

Miss Callie looking all sweet  :Smile: .

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## Dreadfrog

I still can't get over how fat they are haha . Nice 


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## Heather

> I still can't get over how fat they are haha . Nice 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Lol!!! Serena is all puffed for wiggling that skin off. He's not quite that chubby. Twigs is a bit chubby. I cut back to feeding him only 5 days a week. 

 :Smile:

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## NatureLady

they are tanks!!! Sheesh better watch it or they will be as big as my wtf!!! lol  :Big Grin:

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## Mmfh

They are beautiful and have the cutest facial expressions!

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## Dreadfrog

Pic of my smallest . Caught him before sleep . He still his night time color

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## Heather

> Pic of my smallest . Caught him before sleep . He still his night time color


So cute!

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## Heather

> they are tanks!!! Sheesh better watch it or they will be as big as my wtf!!! lol


Ha ha!  :Smile:  They're funny! I pretty much keep their husbandry right and let them do as they please. Fresh food every night  :Smile: . Surprisingly, they don't all eat every night. But, they can if they'd like. 

They just love their new big home. So much activity every night. It's like a party going on in there, lol! Silly frogs  :Big Grin: . We just love them  :Smile: .

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## bill

Holy jeez heather! They look like roid freak wrestling frogs!! Lol

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## Heather

Ha ha ha!!!!! Yeah, they've been working out on the vines  :Stick Out Tongue: .

Check out their latts, lol!

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## Heather

So much personality  :Smile: . How can you not just chuckle at those cute faces?  :Big Grin: 

Even after a crazy day at work...I sometimes come home a little grumpy. Their cute expressions always get me smiling again  :Smile: .

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## Seventents

Wow amazing! stunning pics...Thanks

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## Heather

Thanks. They just photographs well  :Smile: .

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## Heather

Twigs


Serena sporting his hunting colors

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## Paul

Heather what type of plant is that. the wine with the red in the leaf?

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## Heather

That is a Chinese evergreen or Aglaonema. It's one of my favorite plants  :Smile: . I have them in my day geckos home also.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aglaonema

Here's a few of mine in my tanks and extras growing.

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## Heather

Serena is on a pothos leaf.

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## Paul

The Chinese Evergreen Aglaonema is amazing. I will have to get me one for the new terrarium to help fill in the bottom. I take it they do well in very humid setups  :Smile:

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## Heather

Lucky 



"Fill my pool mom, please?"

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## Heather

Serena

Nice stretch!


Hello  :Smile: 


Big boy's profile


In my hunting camo

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## bill

Too adorable!!


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## Amy

Beautiful pics!  How long after lights out do they usually wake?  Can they handle a night light?

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## Lewis



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## Heather

They usually wake up around 9:00pm. Yes, they're very used to me. Though, they prefer it pitch black and call most with all lights out.

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## Heather

So cute, Lewis  :Smile: .

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## The Frog Keeper

Just a word of warning Heather, don't over feed your red eyes, while it looks cute that they are nice and plump they don't eat as much as you are offering in the wild they are naturally slim and have limited fat storage than say a white's tree frog which is naturally fat. They may end up with cloudy fatty deposits in their eyes. I fed my female 1 large adult crickets, every few days I figured why not she takes them even if they are a little big saves me feeding her 3 small ones. Also wax worms too to get them to bulk up. She didn't even look as fat as yours either. Never again lol. 4 years later one of her eyes is clouded over and her other one started to do it too but now all I give her are very small crickets as they are more protein and less fat and the other eye has stopped progressing. She would have been completely blind if I hadn't changed her diet. I think she still would have eaten though as I have them all tong feeding "trained" but still it's not good. And no its not an eye infection I have tried many different types of drops in her eye and nothing fixes it. She was adult when I got her so I have no idea how old she is, red eyes don't live longer than 5 years apparently so it could be down to her old age not being able to process fats as well as she used to I'm not sure. Of course this would happen to mine and no record elsewhere with anyone elses, I swear I have had the most problems with red eyes out of any frog I've had and all the problems I'm the only one who it's ever happened to!

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## Heather

Mine are not over fed. I offer 10 1/2 to 3/4" crickets nightly to 5 frogs. They are bowl fed and eat when they want. I never use waxworks because they have no real nutritive value and are fatty. I rotate their calcium/D3 and Repashy MVI. They are already 2 years old from the time I adopted them. Some were just dehydrated and thin, the others had bacterial and fungal infections. It was quite the 6 weeks to heal them and get them eating. Red eyes are not ones to engorge themselves. Mine do not even eat every night. They might eat a couple every night or less or a few every few days. I often have 5 or more crickets left in the am. No eye cloudiness. No signs of illness.

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## Heather

Waxworms would be like a McDonald's diet.

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## Heather

How long have you owned Red eyes?

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## The Frog Keeper

I have owned red eyes for almost 5 years. I never just strictly fed them waxworms I would offer them 1 or 2 a week as a treat until my supply was gone and then I wouldn't get more wax worms for several months sometimes longer. Crickets I tong feed them 2 or 3 each once  week and maybe another 1 mid week I don't really have a schedule. How do you know how many each of yours are eating if you just let them help themselves? One of them could be eating the majority and the others just get one or two. And the whole eye situation was just a warning to you I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'm just giving you a heads up, like I said the frog is probably over 5 years old and this happened over a long period of time, she starting showing sign of the eye problem over a year ago. It doesn't affect their general health or anything it's just has cloudy vision is one eye.

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## Heather

Andaroo, 

Because I love my frogs, I have msg'd one of the best breeders in the states and asked of his advice. I am not going to argue with anyone, especially here on the forum. I always do what is best for my frogs and will continue to further my education for them. I have not only learned from some of the best breeders, but have learned from vets and read weekly. I have read the Merck amphibian care manual and articles, Amphibian Ark's care guidelines, learned from a great herpetologist here at the forum and who has several years of experience not only in care but with testing, and more. I have several saved/read articles, online journals and books. I never trust in just routine care articles on the net without comparing data and discussing care with others. I have rescued 9 sick frogs with the aide of a herp vet. However, I am always open to new and updating care guidelines. For this reason I have consulted a knowledgeable breeder on this topic. 

I have, again, reread data as to the total fat, saturated fat, cholesterol, and HDL fats in common insect feeders and mice (crickets, roaches, worms, waxworms, mealworms, etc.) The data shows that the insects high in fat cause lipid keratopathy, as I already knew. Mice do also. Crickets fall within the middle zone of feeders, with waxworms high and earthworms and night crawlers as low. This I already knew. To aide in this issue, feeding your crickets a balanced diet of rinsed fresh fruits, veggies, and leafy greens will lower their fat content, and feeding them carbs raises their fat content. So, you can tweak their nutritive value just a bit. 

I will update after speaking with this breeder as to any further recommendations after discussing this with him. My goal will be to determine the best feeders and feeding schedule. 

To be continued...  :Wink:

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## The Frog Keeper

> Andaroo, 
> 
> Because I love my frogs, I have msg'd one of the best breeders in the states and asked of his advice. I am not going to argue with anyone, especially here on the forum. I always do what is best for my frogs and will continue to further my education for them. I have not only learned from some of the best breeders, but have learned from vets and read weekly. I have read the Merck amphibian care manual and articles, Amphibian Ark's care guidelines, learned from a great herpetologist here at the forum and who has several years of experience not only in care but with testing, and more. I have several saved/read articles, online journals and books. I never trust in just routine care articles on the net without comparing data and discussing care with others. I have rescued 9 sick frogs with the aide of a herp vet. However, I am always open to new and updating care guidelines. For this reason I have consulted a knowledgeable breeder on this topic. 
> 
> I have, again, reread data as to the total fat, saturated fat, cholesterol, and HDL fats in common insect feeders and mice (crickets, roaches, worms, waxworms, mealworms, etc.) The data shows that the insects high in fat cause lipid keratopathy, as I already knew. Mice do also. Crickets fall within the middle zone of feeders, with waxworms high and earthworms and night crawlers as low. This I already knew. To aide in this issue, feeding your crickets a balanced diet of rinsed fresh fruits, veggies, and leafy greens will lower their fat content, and feeding them carbs raises their fat content. So, you can tweak their nutritive value just a bit. 
> 
> I will update after speaking with this breeder as to any further recommendations after discussing this with him. My goal will be to determine the best feeders and feeding schedule. 
> 
> To be continued...


I'm not arguing with you I was just giving you advice and you have clearly taken it the wrong way spewing facts at me and how much you read and who you have spoken to and such. I don't care about all that I'm telling you what I experienced and I do feed my crickets fresh kale, oranges and carrots and thats it, I never feed them anything carby or fatty. I know that adult crickets are fattier as their abdomen is bigger. Sometimes peoples actual experiences aren't documented in any books or breeders haven't had these issues and such. Like I said earlier I have had a few issues with red eyes when I first started keeping them that I researched for hours and could not find anything about the issue anywhere. I went to several "experienced frog" vets and spoke with lots of experienced people and they all didn't know what the hell was wrong. I keep these frogs at home with me for 5 years I see them every night, I haven't just read about them or taken courses like most vets or herpetologists or breed them for the sake of making a few extra $$$, they are my pets. I saw things like the territorial shaking the males do to each other years before it was even documented. If I had been told what I have told you back when I first started I would have appreciated the advice, not argued against it and would never fed larger crickets or waxworms as treats and this eye problem would never have happened. If you are so knowledgeable can you come up with an explanation of why my frogs eye went like this if you don't think that its down to feeding crickets? You were the only one to respond to my post on here when I asked a few months ago, you said it was an infection, you were wrong it wasn't an infection at all. If it was the frog would have been dead by now, not lasted over a year after the problem presented itself.

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## Lindsey

Andaroo,  With all due respect, you do tend to be a bit combative with some of your posts, including one on one of my threads...  It never hurts to be a bit gentler with your 'advice.'  Heather's frogs look great - happy and healthy.

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## Heather

Okay, first of all I refuse to argue on a respectable forum. I never claim to be always right. I am not a vet and I am respectful of that. When I do not know the answers to any questions, I refer to a vet so that no harm is done and so that any needed treatment is not delayed. 

I even took your advice into consideration. I also did more research. I am never oblivious to their needs. I always try to provide the best care I can. Mine have been adopted, cured and are pets also. I spend a couple hours a night doing their chores and monitoring their behaviors. Please know their health is of utmost importance to me. I apologize if my wording came across wrong. It was not my intention. Though, I do give them the best husbandry possible and continue to update my education as new data arises. 

I mean no disrespect, though please know I am very educated to their care and medical care. I have not experienced every health ailment they could possibly encounter. I am not a herp vet by any means. 

If you've encountered several vets that did not know the answer to your frogs ailment, then why would expect that I must? Lipid keratopathy is more common in Whites tree frogs and Cuban tree frogs. For this purpose, my Cuban is limited in his amount of food now that he is well taken care of. And i never feed waxies just to be cautious. He was a plant shop refugee. 

I will always take into consideration advice from those more educated and I never look down upon those with less education, because we all start somewhere. I share my education so that others can learn. What I don't know I research from different literature and compare data for accuracy before teaching that data. 

I'm just here to share education, share our frogs and stories and to enjoy the hobby. 

Please, however, be cautious of your tone. You have now spoken in a demeaning manner to two forum moderators. 

All of my frogs are healthy, eating well, properly hydrated, with no wounds or issues and happily communicate with other each night. I have no territorial issues and they even cuddle up on leaves together to sleep in the daytime  :Smile: . 

I love my frogs  :Smile: . 

If you have any other comments that are not pleasant towards this topic, please msg me privately, as I do not believe in having disrespect for one another in public.

I do appreciate your experience with frogs and I have reached out to a great breeder as for confirmation and any further advice. I want my frogs as healthy as possible  :Smile: .

I just wanted to also mention that I am a kind person that always tries to help everyone both here and in my job and life, so I may have taken your tone as less than pleasant. This may be my own perception and if that is the case, I apologize. 

Please do share your experiences if they are helpful to others. I believe each of us may experience different situations with our amphibians and both good and bad experiences can be beneficial to their future and our education. Hands on experience is often the most valuable of all. 

Please, other members, all is well here and take these last few posts for their education and not as banter. If the conversation continues to lead in a bad direction I will delete it, even though I like the pictures and conversations we have shared in this thread. As pleasant as I may be, I will not tolerate disrespect among members because we want the forum to be a nice, open place for everyone to share and I don't want anyone to feel cautious about posting about their needs or questions.

We try our best here to always be open to helping everyone, no matter what the issue.

Thanks so much,
Heath

I will still update later today  :Smile: .

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## AnimalEnthusiast

Callie is gorgeous!

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## Heather

Thank you  :Smile:

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## The Frog Keeper

> Okay, first of all I refuse to argue on a respectable forum. I never claim to be always right. I am not a vet and I am respectful of that. When I do not know the answers to any questions, I refer to a vet so that no harm is done and so that any needed treatment is not delayed. 
> 
> I even took your advice into consideration. I also did more research. I am never oblivious to their needs. I always try to provide the best care I can. Mine have been adopted, cured and are pets also. I spend a couple hours a night doing their chores and monitoring their behaviors. Please know their health is of utmost importance to me. I apologize if my wording came across wrong. It was not my intention. Though, I do give them the best husbandry possible and continue to update my education as new data arises. 
> 
> I mean no disrespect, though please know I am very educated to their care and medical care. I have not experienced every health ailment they could possibly encounter. I am not a herp vet by any means. 
> 
> If you've encountered several vets that did not know the answer to your frogs ailment, then why would expect that I must? Lipid keratopathy is more common in Whites tree frogs and Cuban tree frogs. For this purpose, my Cuban is limited in his amount of food now that he is well taken care of. And i never feed waxies just to be cautious. He was a plant shop refugee. 
> 
> I will always take into consideration advice from those more educated and I never look down upon those with less education, because we all start somewhere. I share my education so that others can learn. What I don't know I research from different literature and compare data for accuracy before teaching that data. 
> ...


It's hard to pick up on the correct tone of the message through text. My intention was never to come across as rude or offensive. While I may be opinionated, at the end of the day I am here to offer my 2 cents based on my experiences. Whether you or whoever else reading takes it into consideration or not. We all started out as beginners and I believe that as a community we must provide our own experiences, good or bad in order to help each other out. Frog keeping isn't very popular at all. A lot of care sheets and documents can be very outdated as newer information comes to light from researchers and people like ourselves. I lean more towards peoples experiences than towards a care sheet, document or book that was written decades ago. 




> Andaroo,  With all due respect, you do tend to be a bit combative with some of your posts, including one on one of my threads...  It never hurts to be a bit gentler with your 'advice.'  Heather's frogs look great - happy and healthy.


I never said her frogs didn't look great. They do! But I was just offering advice based on what I have experienced.

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## Heather

> It's hard to pick up on the correct tone of the message through text. My intention was never to come across as rude or offensive. While I may be opinionated, at the end of the day I am here to offer my 2 cents based on my experiences. Whether you or whoever else reading takes it into consideration or not. We all started out as beginners and I believe that as a community we must provide our own experiences, good or bad in order to help each other out. Frog keeping isn't very popular at all. A lot of care sheets and documents can be very outdated as newer information comes to light from researchers and people like ourselves. I lean more towards peoples experiences than towards a care sheet, document or book that was written decades ago. 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said her frogs didn't look great. They do! But I was just offering advice based on what I have experienced.


I agree. Thank you. And I apologize for misinterpreting your intentions.

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## AnimalEnthusiast

You're welcome!  :Smile:

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## Heather

My breeder friend replied and said they look fine  :Smile: .

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## The Frog Keeper

> My breeder friend replied and said they look fine .


I have never ever seen red eyes as fat as your lol and I have kept 8 of them over the years. I have seen 1000s of pictures of them too as I'm always looking for a desktop wallpaper lol or phone background. 
I really think maybe you should reduce feeding to twice a week. Or even just smaller crickets daily. Over how long did they gain the weight?

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## Heather

Couple years

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## Heather

He has been breeding for several years and is well known to the breeding society. He said his look the same.

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## Heather

I feed small crickets only.

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## The Frog Keeper

Then I need to fatten mine up a bit then. Mine look anorexic compared to yours haha. Can you ask him what could have caused my frogs eye problem please?

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## Heather

High fat diets

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## The Frog Keeper

> High fat diets


I only fed crickets though and the occasional wax worm. Like I said 1 - 2 adult crickets a week sometimes, the most maybe 3 but very rarely. Sometimes only 1 cricket a week it varied. She isn't over weight, looks like a regular slender red eye but not skinny or sickly looking. 
You said yourself that crickets aren't that high in fat as you did research on their nutritional values. So while it points to a high fat diet, she wasn't really being offered one. I guess we will never know, like most issues I've had with red eyes I never seem to find a conclusion.

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## Heather

Do you use a vitamin supplement?

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## The Frog Keeper

> Do you use a vitamin supplement?


Of course lol! Rep Cal herptivite (with betacarotene) and rep cal calicium+d3. One little scoop of each dusted onto the crickets every feed. They are stored in the fridge to keep them from expiring quicker. If you dont did you know that they can expire within a few months so all that would be left thats active is the calcium. Even refrigerated ones should be changed every 6 months as everytime you open and close it it slowly starts to expire. I do it every feed because I feed 1-2 times a week. And was told by a herpetologist who did a study on it they said it doesnt matter as there are no cases of any frog getting vitamin toxicity infact even with it dusted every feed there are still ones that were still vitamin deficient!

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## Heather

You could try Repashy?

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## Amy

> You could try Repashy?


When I switched from Rep-Cal to Repashy, the color in my frogs improved immensely, I can only imagine that it was better for their health in general!

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## The Frog Keeper

> When I switched from Rep-Cal to Repashy, the color in my frogs improved immensely, I can only imagine that it was better for their health in general!


Oh wow, yes I have heard good things about it before, but didn't know it worked that well! I have been wanting to get some for a while now. What's the exact type to get because I know there is alot of different ones. I had the superpig one once for my geckos years ago and do remember trying it out on the frogs a few times but I didn't notice a difference. How long did it take to show a difference?

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## Lindsey

I use Repashy as well, and dust every day with it.  Some use it with their rep-cal and other multi vit....  but I don't.
I use the Repashy Calcium Plus.  And it smells good, like bananas!  I love it, and my frogs seem to do well on it...

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## Amy

> Oh wow, yes I have heard good things about it before, but didn't know it worked that well! I have been wanting to get some for a while now. What's the exact type to get because I know there is alot of different ones. I had the superpig one once for my geckos years ago and do remember trying it out on the frogs a few times but I didn't notice a difference. How long did it take to show a difference?


I'll have to check when I get home, but I'm pretty sure it has a tree frog on it.  I would say it was about 2-3 months before I noticed a marked difference.  I switched January '13 and I want to say it was march/april that year that I noticed the changes.  I attributed it to springtime initially, even though they were inside and at maintained temps, I thought it must have affected them.  Yet this past winter, which was extremely cold here, they continued to be bright and active.

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## Friesian horse lover

wow, your frogs are GORGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! never seen any like that.  :Big Grin:  love them.

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## The Frog Keeper

I just picked some up. It has a leopard gecko on the tub. I might alternate each week between them

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## Heather

Thank you, Friesian  :Smile: .

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