# General Topics > Food, Feeders, Live, Frozen, Culturing, etc >  Crickets as staple food for larger amphibians

## Smossy

Hi all,


I have a couple mossy tree frogs which are largish frogs between a red eye and a whites size wise and I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on crickets being a staple food for larger amphibians. I gut load and dust but I know that crickets themselves are not super choc full of nutrients. Do you think that they offer enough nutritional support for larger frogs?

anyone with larger amphibians use a different food as a staple?

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## Frogger00

I believe some people have used Dubia roaches as a staple, but I'm not sure. I have two whites tree frogs, and I personally don't exactly have a staple bug for them. I always offer them a variety of crickets, super worms, wax worms, and occasionally meal worms. They do really well on this diet. 


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## Smossy

That sounds like a great diet. Did your guys always eat the worms or did you have to convince them? Mine don't even notice worms it would seem.

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## Stephanie

I thought super worms were bad like meal worms because they are hard to digest for whites? If not let me know because I'd love to bring some home for my whites.  


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## Frogger00

> That sounds like a great diet. Did your guys always eat the worms or did you have to convince them? Mine don't even notice worms it would seem.


Thanks, they have always accepted the worms, although bubba isn't big on the mealies. They absolutely love the supers! The super worms wiggle a lot, so you could try them. 


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## Frogger00

> I thought super worms were bad like meal worms because they are hard to digest for whites? If not let me know because I'd love to bring some home for my whites.  
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh I've never heard of that, but if anyone else has, please say so! My two digest them fine, just make sure to cut off the heads before feeding. And just a warning, sometimes if you cut off too much head, the whole insides of the worm come out and it's disgusting lol 


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## Cris

Super worms are high in chitin, which is what makes mealworms an impaction danger. Waxworm would be better, but only as an occasional treat since they are very high in fat. Crickets and dubia would be the best for the staple, but nightcrawlers (not red wigglers, as they apparently taste gross) can be use to vary the diet. They don't pose the same impaction risk as meal/superworms and are lower in fat than waxworms. Just be sure that you feed a manageable portion, since juvenile frogs can't handle a whole worm.

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irThumper, Lija, Snappi13

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## Frogger00

> Super worms are high in chitin, which is what makes mealworms an impaction danger. Waxworm would be better, but only as an occasional treat since they are very high in fat. Crickets and dubia would be the best for the staple, but nightcrawlers (not red wigglers, as they apparently taste gross) can be use to vary the diet. They don't pose the same impaction risk as meal/superworms and are lower in fat than waxworms. Just be sure that you feed a manageable portion, since juvenile frogs can't handle a whole worm.


Good to know. My frogs are certainly not impacted, though. 


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## whittyfrog42

I know its kind of mean but my favorite treat for them is house fly's they're a pain to catch but my whites will chase them for hours i always make sure they get real treats after but its too funny watching them try to catch the flys

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## Cris

> I know its kind of mean but my favorite treat for them is house fly's they're a pain to catch but my whites will chase them for hours i always make sure they get real treats after but its too funny watching them try to catch the flys


Do they ever actually catch/eat the flies? I would worry about the typical wild-caught insect concerns of parasites or chemical exposure (but then I'm very much a worrier in general!)

I did have a fly get in the tank the other day but James was fast asleep and the lazy boy didn't even notice the potential meal  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Smossy

Cut off the head? Is this because they could potentially eat their way out of the frog like meal worms? (Never seen a super worm)

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## BrittsBugs

Should you breed your own supers and mealworms the juvenile larvae (Mini-Medium) are perfectly safe for frog digestion before they have a chance to grow a significantly hard outer shell much as large larvae due before pupation. I've also been looking into feeding pupae. As they're very soft, squishy, and wiggly when touched.

Mealworm Pupae

The only worm I highly advise against feeding your froggies is giant mealworms as they're exposed to an insect repellent growth hormone that temporarily stunts the mealworms growth, and should prevent them from pupation, and becoming beetles. The beetles are also said to be sterile. So, I took up breeding a batch just to find out.

Here's a super worm.


Mealworms Mini - Large


Giant Mealworms (Mealworms exposed to GH insecticide)

Giant Mealworm Pupae



-BrittsBugs
Reptile & Amphibian Enthusiast
Insect Breeder
Former Rat Breeder
Pets: 6 AUS WTF's, 1 Hon Milk, 1 SM Corn, 1 BP, 5 H.Crabs, 1 C.Gecko, 4 RB Newts, 6 Betas, 5 MH Roaches, 1 L.Gecko, 1 W.Hognose, & so much more

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## BrittsBugs

> Cut off the head? Is this because they could potentially eat their way out of the frog like meal worms? (Never seen a super worm)


Super worms actually tend to have a very nasty bite, it'd be like feeding a black cricket to your frog, in case you don't know, black crickets bite, while brown crickets tend to climb and try to escape.

Also should they be eaten while as is typically a frog behavior and the head is not crushed, there's been quite a bit of speculation, but no scientific veterinarian agreed proof. Super worms could chew from inside the herp and cause internal bleeding and death.

Much like the insectivore snake that decided it was a wise idea to eat a centipede.

SuperWorm Size :



-BrittsBugs
Reptile & Amphibian Enthusiast
Insect Breeder
Former Rat Breeder
Pets: 6 AUS WTF's, 1 Hon Milk, 1 SM Corn, 1 BP, 5 H.Crabs, 1 C.Gecko, 4 RB Newts, 6 Betas, 5 MH Roaches, 1 L.Gecko, 1 W.Hognose, & so much more

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Smossy

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## Frogger00

BrittsBugs, your two posts are very helpful. You seem pretty experienced in feeders. So are super worms good to feed? My two frogs digest them really well, and both absolutely love them. Could I feed the smaller meal worms more regularly? And also-black crickets bite, brown crickets flee, but what about white crickets? 


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## BrittsBugs

> BrittsBugs, your two posts are very helpful. You seem pretty experienced in feeders. So are super worms good to feed? My two frogs digest them really well, and both absolutely love them. Could I feed the smaller meal worms more regularly? And also-black crickets bite, brown crickets flee, but what about white crickets? 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thank you. (: Of everything I researched into the most. I decided to go with the one thing I could control that could ultimately affect my Herps health, feeders. What are they fed? Are they guy loaded? If I can't dust them in calcium what can I do to pack them with calcium and protein. So, I decided to get into breeding.

Admittedly there's some feeders even I won't fool with.. Such as CalciWorms (black fly soldier larvae), Silkworm (larvae or caterpillar of the Silkmoth, Bombyx mori), Hornworms (Goliath larvae or caterpillar, also commonly referred to as tomato hornworms), etc.

While these could very nutritional for froggies, I just can't get over flying critters. Once I get a plan in mind that allows hem to not fly Round the house I'm on it. ^_^

But here's a chart. While super worms I'd say are fairly safe (with the removed head or simply crushed, better safe then sorry), only still as a treat due to the high fat content, but they could very well be given more often then say Waxworms or butterworms. You could feed mealworms more regularly, but again watch how many due to the fat content it's not outrageously high but it adds up quickly when it comes to piggy frogs lol.


The second healthiest dietary option to crickets would actually be silkworms the fat content be the next lowest. With a very high calcium and protein content, moisture virtually the same as crickets.

And white crickets to the best of my knowledge are just crickets who have shed their outer shell much like mealworms due as they grow and I'd say this is the best time to feed them with the slimmest chance of any impaction issues (if impaction with any critters are a worry) because they are often left soft and squishy after shedding/molting, but will soon harden much like a Mealworm larvae will and darken to become a beetle.


-BrittsBugs
Reptile & Amphibian Enthusiast
Insect Breeder
Former Rat Breeder
Pets: 6 AUS WTF's, 1 Hon Milk, 1 SM Corn, 1 BP, 5 H.Crabs, 1 C.Gecko, 4 RB Newts, 6 Betas, 5 MH Roaches, 1 L.Gecko, 1 W.Hognose, & so much more

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## Frogger00

> Thank you. (: Of everything I researched into the most. I decided to go with the one thing I could control that could ultimately affect my Herps health, feeders. What are they fed? Are they guy loaded? If I can't dust them in calcium what can I do to pack them with calcium and protein. So, I decided to get into breeding.
> 
> Admittedly there's some feeders even I won't fool with.. Such as CalciWorms (black fly soldier larvae), Silkworm (larvae or caterpillar of the Silkmoth, Bombyx mori), Hornworms (Goliath larvae or caterpillar, also commonly referred to as tomato hornworms), etc.
> 
> While these could very nutritional for froggies, I just can't get over flying critters. Once I get a plan in mind that allows hem to not fly Round the house I'm on it. ^_^
> 
> But here's a chart. While super worms I'd say are fairly safe (with the removed head or simply crushed, better safe then sorry), only still as a treat due to the high fat content, but they could very well be given more often then say Waxworms or butterworms. You could feed mealworms more regularly, but again watch how many due to the fat content it's not outrageously high but it adds up quickly when it comes to piggy frogs lol.
> 
> 
> ...


Are calci worms the same as Phoenix worms? I once offered those to my frogs and hey would have nothing to do with them. I've heard of others having similar results as well. I give hornworms as a treat or when my froggies haven't pooped in a while, they really get things moving! I've never tried silkworms, I will definitely look into those. 

I'm with you on flying bugs- I don't know how dart frog owners deal with the fruit flies! 

Wax worms I feed pretty rarely, super worms I've been feeding about twice a week, and in small amounts. Of course if they start looking a bit too chubby, I will cut back on the supers! That's really good to know that I can feed more mealies, my one frog really likes them, and I always have them on hand anyways for the sugar gliders. 

Lol when I saw the white cricket I was like "cool an albino cricket!" Haha I fed it to one of the frogs. Thanks for the chart, I'm definitely going to try to get my hands on some silk worms! 


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## BrittsBugs

Yes, they're the same thing. Not sure why we create two names for worms. Like technically mealworms and superworms are both dark beetle larvae, just different species.

I once looked into breeding until I opened a container with a soldier fly ready. I was like, NOPE!!

I have no idea either, but I shall learn hopefully. I'd love to acquire some azures.

Lol, lucky! I love sugar gliders. My brother adopted one, she was pretty cool.

Right, everything albino is beast. When my Madagascar roaches have nymphs I'll post the white babies.


-BrittsBugs
Reptile & Amphibian Enthusiast
Insect Breeder
Former Rat Breeder
Pets: 6 AUS WTF's, 1 Hon Milk, 1 SM Corn, 1 BP, 5 H.Crabs, 1 C.Gecko, 4 RB Newts, 6 Betas, 5 MH Roaches, 1 L.Gecko, 1 W.Hognose, & so much more

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## Lija

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I have a couple mossy tree frogs which are largish frogs between a red eye and a whites size wise and I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on crickets being a staple food for larger amphibians. I gut load and dust but I know that crickets themselves are not super choc full of nutrients. Do you think that they offer enough nutritional support for larger frogs?
> 
> anyone with larger amphibians use a different food as a staple?



Yes if properly gut loaded and supplemented, mossies are very rarely eating anything else in captivity, they eat roaches, dubia are one of the best feeders out there, but unfortunately for us living in Canada, they are not available.

mealworms and superworms are NOT appropriate food for frog, we discussed it so many times before.

silkworms and hornworms are ok in very small quantities as an occasional treat only for variety.

frogger00 and Brittany, please don't go off topic, otherwise the thread gets cluttered and it's hard for OP to get question answered. Thank you.

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Smossy

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## Frogger00

> Yes if properly gut loaded and supplemented, mossies are very rarely eating anything else in captivity, they eat roaches, dubia are one of the best feeders out there, but unfortunately for us living in Canada, they are not available.
> 
> mealworms and superworms are NOT appropriate food for frog, we discussed it so many times before.
> 
> silkworms and hornworms are ok in very small quantities as an occasional treat only for variety.
> 
> frogger00 and Brittany, please don't go off topic, otherwise the thread gets cluttered and it's hard for OP to get question answered. Thank you.


Hmmm...I don't remember having a conversation with you about why supers and meal worms are not "appropriate" . Care to explain yourself? 

I don't feel I was going off topic, we were discussing nutritional value of feeders. 


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## Lija

You can use search button and find many many threads and posts on the matter, there is no point of going into in depth discussion here, you are welcome though to carry on discussion in one these threads on nutritional value. 
summary however - too high in fat and chitin. Silks contain triaminase, horns - thiaminase  and too much water.

the question was - if that's ok to feed mossy frogs only crickets as that's all they are interested in eating.

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## Frogger00

> You can use search button and find many many threads and posts on the matter, there is no point of going into in depth discussion here, you are welcome though to carry on discussion in one these threads on nutritional value. 
> summary however - too high in fat and chitin. Silks contain triaminase, horns - thiaminase  and too much water.
> 
> the question was - if that's ok to feed mossy frogs only crickets as that's all they are interested in eating.


Fair enough. But I do disagree with not feeding supers and meal worms at all-maybe not daily but once in a while is a nice treat. Who doesn't like a bit of 'junk' food every now and then? 


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## Amy

Just because your frog hasn't had impaction or prolapse issues YET doesn't mean it will never happen.  I can't tell you how many prolapses I've seen in different facebook groups lately due to an improper diet.  I've also seen a lot of "my frog won't eat" or "my frog hasn't pooped in ... " lately.  Some do not appear to have an issue for some time, or they just get sick and die without their owners ever finding out the real cause.  Either way, there is no reason to risk it when there are other, SAFE, options available.  I used to feed them to my greys on occasion, but after finding out they are nutritionally deficient, higher in fat, and can cause digestions hazards (and seeing some of the issues on facebook!) I decided it was absolutely not worth the risk, even as occasional "treats."

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## bill

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I have a couple mossy tree frogs which are largish frogs between a red eye and a whites size wise and I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on crickets being a staple food for larger amphibians. I gut load and dust but I know that crickets themselves are not super choc full of nutrients. Do you think that they offer enough nutritional support for larger frogs?
> 
> anyone with larger amphibians use a different food as a staple?


I know many people who keep mossies, and all feed crickets and dubias as their staple diet. I think everything else was covered well by amy and Lija. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

> Right, everything albino is beast. When my Madagascar roaches have nymphs I'll post the white babies


What?? Hisser nymphs are not albino. Not everything white is albino. SMH


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Cris

> Fair enough. But I do disagree with not feeding supers and meal worms at all-maybe not daily but once in a while is a nice treat. Who doesn't like a bit of 'junk' food every now and then?


if you really want to offer the occasional treat to your frogs, then I'd go with something safer like waxworms or nightcrawlers. This way you can indulge them in a little junk food (the main risk being obesity only if overfed) without giving a high-chitin feeder (the main risk being serious impactions).

I wouldn't necessarily compare mealworms and superworms to "junk food" because the issue is less that they are unhealthy and more that they are unsafe. Unhealthy food (ie waxworms) is like eating a bucket of KFC or a box of donuts. Not the best for you but every once in a while won't hurt you. Unsafe food (ie mealworms and superworms) is like eating raw fish at a shoddy sushi place. Even though you might enjoy the treat, is it really worth the risk of more serious illness?

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deranged chipmunk

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## Lija

Cris, there is something that just doesnt click in mossy and some other frog brains in terms of food when it comes to any types of worms available to us, probably it has something to do with the way they move.

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## Lija

Im not going to give infraction since it was given already, deleting all last posts.

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## Frogger00

> Im not going to give infraction since it was given already, deleting all last posts.


I'm not sure of which posts you deleted, but I have to say that just because you are a mod, you should not just delete posts because you don't like them. If they are actually breaking the rules then go ahead. Although I find with you that if you don't agree with a poster, you just delete it. It really bugs me. 


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## Amy

The posts were deleted because they went way off topic.   I suggest that if you have an issue with how the forum is run, you take it up via pm with the mods instead of continuing to derail the thread.

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## Amy

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