# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  White's Tree Frog Questions

## Crystal6

I checked out the caresheet for White's Tree Frogs but I still have some questions, some of which will sound very newb-ish so please be patient with me. I figure I should probably start asking questions BEFORE I go out and buy one.  :Frown: 

Question 1: I'm used to frogs having to hibernate. Would it be safe to assume these kinds of frogs never do? (Because they are native to a warmer climate?) 

Question 2:    Would exposure to temperatures around 69 for extended periods of time be unsafe? (In crickets lower temperatures increase the lifespan. Is it the same in frogs?)

Question 3: This one is kinda stupid but just to be sure...   Ive heard its skin has antibiotic/antivirus-like properties. Is there any danger to someone with an allergy to penicillin? (I dont know the technicalities of what exactly the chemicals in its skin consist of and it would be a shame if my friend ended up in the hospital from my pet.)

   Question 4: Ive heard theres a danger of overfeeding it, but the care sheet isnt very specific of how much to feed. (I saw one person advertising that it only requires 2 crickets a day) Would 2 crickets a day be too many or not enough?

Question 5:    If youve seen my introductory topic you probably know that I had a problem with my last frog in which it drowned. Would that be a danger with Whites Tree Frogs? (Do they usually have a lot of trouble climbing out or swimming?) I've had wood frogs before and they seemed to have no trouble even though their cage basically consisted of an island surrounded by very deep water.

Thank you in advance.  :Embarrassment:

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## into

I'm still learning as I go, but I can try to give an answer to a couple of your questions:


1: I don't believe they hibernate, and if they do, they wouldn't under constant warm temperatures in captivity. 

2: 69 is too cool for them and may cause digestion problems. Upper 80s during the day and 70s at night is best for them.

3: I don't have a clue, but my hands are get very dry after handling them (I have sensitive skin) just make sure you wash your hands good after handling them.

4: As you may have read, it's very much touch and go. I fed my juvenile 2 to 3 crickets a night but noticed he was getting too chubby. Now he only gets a couple every couple nights. If the ridges over his/her brows get big and start to cover it's eyes, then they need to be on a diet.

5: I read somewhere that white's are buoyant, but I wouldn't risk it. A bowl of water that isn't any deeper than it's umm neck (if they have one) should be more than enough water.

Hope this helps a little  :Smile:

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## Kurt

1. No, they do no brumate.

2. 69 is an ok temperture for night time.

3. It shouldn't be a problem, but if you are overly concerned you can always wear surgical gloves when handling the frog.

4. Two a day is fine. I feed mine once a week. About two dozen are given to my two at that time.

5. Mine are in a tank with fish, no problem. Most treefrogs have no problem getting in an out of water. If they do, they have something seriously wrong with them.

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## Crystal6

> 1. No, they do no brumate.
> 
> 2. 69 is an ok temperture for night time.
> 
> 3. It shouldn't be a problem, but if you are overly concerned you can always wear surgical gloves when handling the frog.
> 
> 4. Two a day is fine. I feed mine once a week. About two dozen are given to my two at that time.
> 
> 5. Mine are in a tank with fish, no problem. Most treefrogs have no problem getting in an out of water. If they do, they have something seriously wrong with them.


 
Would the temperature need to be hotter in daytime? Winter is approaching here and it costs a lot to keep the temperature above 70. (I have heatlamps for the crickets though and could always use one for the frog(s) if absolutely neccessary)

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## Kurt

Day time temps should be at least 77 degrees, but a temperture range of 80 to 85 would be ideal.

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## Archeopterix

1) my frog is in his late teens and has never hibertnated/brumated.

2) If your house gets to 69 or so I would provide a heat source such as a lamp available.

3) I have a penacillin allergy and have never had a reaction when handling my White's. That is no garuntee that you won't though, allergies are finicky things. If you want to be sure, ask at the store or herp club if you can handle one.

Wash hands before and after you hold frogs. I saw someone say after but it is important to wash before holding a frog as our natural skin oils burn frogs skin. White's have a special waxy coat to their skin that allows them to handle and survive drying out longer than other species of frogs, but it's best to be careful.

4) I give my whites lots of 25 or so crickets every 2 weeks, although now that he's old it takes him longer than 2 weeks to finish them all. I make a little "cricket habitat" that he can't access so they can survive in there too for as long as they need to.

5)My White's is in a 27 Hex aquarium and his pond is 3 inches deep and I have rocks layered at a slope so he (and the crickets that might fall in) can get out. He seems to be able to handle the vertical shale walls of the pond and aquarium glass just as easily though. I get a few drowned crickets each time so it's best to keep an eye out for those (and frog poops) so they don't spoil the water. 

Tree frogs are escape artists, and White's are very smart. I originally kept him in a 10 gallon aquarium and he kept escaping no matter if I taped the lid down or what, its still a mystery to how he got out with the entire lid taped up with packing tape. Same as when I upped him to a 15. Then I got a 27 gallon hex and he hasn't tried to escape since. I guess he just wanted more room.

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## into

> Tree frogs are escape artists, and White's are very smart. I originally kept him in a 10 gallon aquarium and he kept escaping no matter if I taped the lid down or what, its still a mystery to how he got out with the entire lid taped up with packing tape...


this is very true, all of my tree frogs have escaped several times and I'm still working on modifications to keep them in.  Both of my whites have escaped recently by pushing through the ventilation areas. one has a screen top and the other has egg crate fit into the opening. both can be pushed through with force and I never would guess these guys had much strength.  My green tree frogs have ventured far away but were found, but luckily each time the Whites got out, they just hung around on top of their homes. Since I'm using converted fish tanks,  I have recently doubled up screen and eggcrate barriers.

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## Crystal6

:Frog Surprise:  Wow! I'd better secure the cage when I get it then.  :Cool:  Can't have a cat finding it with it outside of its protective barriers. *(Edit: Also, very glad to hear their skin stays moist longer then most. It means that I can handle them more, though of course I'll be careful to wash my hands first. I read that the salt in our sweat is dangerous to them)

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## Crystal6

I just thought up two more questions. Both dealing with toxicity.

6 In the water half of the portion, could I put a bamboo plant? (Its not toxic or anything to frogs is it?)

7 I feed my crickets calcium supplement+skim milk powder. Would sprinkling this mixture on the crickets before feeding hurt the frogs?

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## Tom

No bamboo is not bad in fact i believe it helps oxygenate the water.

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## Kurt

Well, Tom answered your first question, so I will answer the second. As far as I know dairy products will not harm the frog, but why would you want to? Dust crickets with a vitamin supplement that is geared towards frog nutrition instead.

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## Archeopterix

Just a note on sanitization prior to handlng, use soap and rinse well with water. Don't use that hand sanitizer gel, or if you do, rinse it off thoroughly. The isopropol alcohol in the hand sanitizing gel can give a frog a chemical burn.

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## into

> Just a note on sanitization prior to handlng, use soap and rinse well with water. Don't use that hand sanitizer gel, or if you do, rinse it off thoroughly. The isopropol alcohol in the hand sanitizing gel can give a frog a chemical burn.


I don't know if anyone else has tried this, but I don't use soap before handling. What I do is put a few drops of the water conditioner on my hand and use it as a soap.  It has a slight slippery feel to it like soap. I then rinse with super hot water and then mist my hands with treated water.  I use hand soap after they are put away.

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## Crystal6

> I don't know if anyone else has tried this, but I don't use soap before handling. What I do is put a few drops of the water conditioner on my hand and use it as a soap. It has a slight slippery feel to it like soap. I then rinse with super hot water and then mist my hands with treated water. I use hand soap after they are put away.


When I had woodfrogs I merely rinsed my hands before handling, (usually holding them under the water for a while just to be sure), as I feared some of the soap might stay on my hands and hurt them. I released them when winter started to approach though, so I didn't really get to see the results. (They didn't SEEM to shrivel up and lose oxygen from me just rinsing but I assume the affects would not be so obvious.)

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## Hannah Wilbanks

I also mist my hands before I handle my WTF.  He seems to like that better compared to me not misting them, and my hands don't seem as dry after he is put away either.  :Smile:

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## Crystal6

> I also mist my hands before I handle my White's Tree Frog. He seems to like that better compared to me not misting them, and my hands don't seem as dry after he is put away either.


 
1: Try not to abbreviate. Especialy White's Tree Frog. <_< >_>

2: I'm not sure I understand when it is and isn't safe to use distilled water. Sorry for all the questions but, could someone clerify?

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## into

> 1: Try not to abbreviate. Especialy White's Tree Frog. <_< >_>
> 
> 2: I'm not sure I understand when it is and isn't safe to use distilled water. Sorry for all the questions but, could someone clerify?


Use distilled water for misting the tank as regular water will leave spots.  Use spring water or treated tap water in their bowls.  Distilled water lacks essential minerals.

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## Kurt

Distilled water is ok to use for misting or wetting your hands. It should not be used in water bowls or aquariums as it is too clean to be used. Normal trace elements found in water will not be found in distilled water.

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## Tom

Do you guys think my whites will will escape a 12.5x 12.5x by 18 zoo med tank?

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## Kurt

Is it secure?

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## Tom

well i don't really know i haven't changed it since i bought it. Its one of the zoo med ones with a front opening door and a screen top.

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## Kurt

If the doors lock and the top is secure, I would think the likelyhood of escape is slim.

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## Archeopterix

I had the locking screen lid, I think he was using some kind of froggie juju to get out. I even had it taped. It was weeeeird.  :Frog Surprise:

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## Tom

Frogie juju

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## Kurt

I have never had a frog escape. Snakes, yes, but never frogs.

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## into

> I had the locking screen lid, I think he was using some kind of froggie juju to get out. I even had it taped. It was weeeeird.


I watched one of mine escape last week and let her get away with it so I could see how she did it. She used her head and hands to pull the screen back enough to flatten her body and push her head through the small opening. I didn't realize they could be that FLAT. She got through unharmed and wasn't too happy to see me waiting for her on the other side to put her back in.

I am getting a new proper home for them.

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## Kurt

That shows some intelligence on their part.

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## Tom

I have found them to be quite intelligent.

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## into

I've found frogs to be quite intelligent. I watch them at night a lot and noticed how Jade will go up and look at the ventilation areas. She'll look at one spot turn her head and look at another area, and another... like the gears are turning in her head.

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## Tom

Soon they will be building little cars.

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## into

> I've found frogs to be quite intelligent. I watch them at night a lot and noticed how Jade will go up and look at the ventilation areas. She'll look at one spot turn her head and look at another area, and another... like the gears are turning in her head.


She got out twice in one day! I don't know how she did it. I was at my office late tonight and when I got home, my girlfreing showed me what she did.... she ripped the screen and slipped out. I'm confused as they don't have claws. We rebuilt the screen top and now she's just staring at her new ceiling. Dumper on the other hand is running around, diving into his pool and watching TV... I don't think she's happy in there. I don't think she's happy in captivity.

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## Tom

What else does she do? Maybe she is wanting something like more space or more privacy.

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## into

> What else does she do? Maybe she is wanting something like more space or more privacy.


She really hates enclosers and tonight didn't seem happy that my bedroom is a larger encloser. While her screen lid was being fixed I was walking around with her and she was staring at the ceiling in my room too. She misses blue sky  :Frown:  

I used to have parrots, and they make playgrounds for them to get exercise outside of their cages.... So after I get the new tank, I was thinking about trying to build a froggy playground to stand on top of the new tank. I just have to work out how I would do this. I let my white's walk around and explore the room, but it usually means I'm there watching them and stopping them from getting into areas they shouldn't. I'd like to figure out how to give them more roaming space without having to pick them up every two minutes.

edit: She's still staring at the screen top. Now that she's mastered the art of escape, that's all she thinks about.

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## into

> What else does she do? Maybe she is wanting something like more space or more privacy.


Do frogs need privacy?  Do I need to give her a bedroom?

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## Tom

No, but she might not like being with Dumper.

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## into

> No, but she might not like being with Dumper.


I put her in with Dumper because she started acting like his.... his tank is bigger.  Hopefully with the new tank she'll calm down.  The weird thing is that she was fine the first 2 weeks, then one day it was all about getting out...  It's cooled down outside, but tank temps are the same.  That's the only environmental change.

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## Kurt

I think she just needs a bigger enclosure. With lots of climbing and hiding places.

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## into

> I think she just needs a bigger enclosure. With lots of climbing and hiding places.


I'm sure that's her problem.... size.  Their current tank is filled with lots of climbing/hiding areas though and Dumper throughly enjoys exploring every nook and cranny. She only likes the nooks (the ones blocked off with screen).

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## Tom

Well i think its time for a larger enclosure.

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## into

> Well i think its time for a larger enclosure.


Ordered the 18x18x24 today!

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## Tom

Ooh cool how much do those run?

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## into

> Ooh cool how much do those run?


Only $100!

http://www.amazon.com/ZooMed-ZOO-NAT...3456943&sr=8-3

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## Tom

Nice when is it arriving?

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## into

> Nice when is it arriving?


Hopefully it will be here at the end of the week.  Jade has resulted to leaping into the screen lid trying to rip it again. She has marks on her face  :Frown:   I gotta get her out of there.. she's miserable.

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## Tom

:Frown:  I hope she is happy in her new cage when you get it set up. What are you going to do with their current cage? Do you have any new animals planned?

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## into

> I hope she is happy in her new cage when you get it set up. What are you going to do with their current cage? Do you have any new animals planned?


It may be ued for new additions at some point.  I have this one (20 gal. tank or I can convert it to 2 10 gal. tanks) another 10 and a 5.  

I'm thinking about a tiger legged monkey frog.

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## Tom

ooh you have a more extras then i do i cant have an empty extra for more then a week. Then they just miraculously end up with critters.

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## Archeopterix

> I'm sure that's her problem.... size. Their current tank is filled with lots of climbing/hiding areas though and Dumper throughly enjoys exploring every nook and cranny. She only likes the nooks (the ones blocked off with screen).


Timmy didn't stop trying to escape till hehad 27 gallons of space. The pet stores usually reacomend a 10 gallong aquarium for them but its reallt not enough. They need lots of room to be happy.




> Hopefully it will be here at the end of the week. Jade has resulted to leaping into the screen lid trying to rip it again. She has marks on her face  I gotta get her out of there.. she's miserable.


Put saran wrap on the screen so it doens't abrade her face in the mean time. You don't want her getting an infected cut.

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## Ra

to expand on the question of temparature and lighting, would a 60 watt incandescent plant bulb be to bright for the frog, or should a red bulb be used instead?

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## into

> Timmy didn't stop trying to escape till hehad 27 gallons of space. The pet stores usually reacomend a 10 gallong aquarium for them but its reallt not enough. They need lots of room to be happy.
> 
> 
> 
> Put saran wrap on the screen so it doens't abrade her face in the mean time. You don't want her getting an infected cut.


My girlfreind fixed the screen so she can't get to it... now she leaps at it, but ends up at the bottom of the tank having to start all over again.

Their new home arrives tomorrow!  Will it stress her/him to have to move again?  This will be her fifth encloser move in a month and a half!

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## Ebony

Hi Chris, I'm sorry to hear that jade is having trouble settling into her home with Dumper.I was thinking that it might make things a bit easier when she moves into her new home to arrange every thing as it was in her previous home but obviously spreed out a bit more. It might help a wee bit.  Good luck Chris, hope all goes well. :Frog Smile:

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## Crystal6

*random topic change* Okay making sure one last time, I can spray the dirt in the cage with distilled even if the frog is in there? (I wouldn't want to suck vital nutrients out of it's skin or anything...)

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## Kurt

> *random topic change* Okay making sure one last time, I can spray the dirt in the cage with distilled even if the frog is in there? (I wouldn't want to suck vital nutrients out of it's skin or anything...)


Yeah, that will be fine. Just don't fill your water bowls with it.

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## maneeta

@chris: I've experienced sth. similar... my dolly isn't much of an eater (it's like that since I've got her, she's also a very shy and timid little one) and for about two weeks she didn't eat anything. so I thought I try putting her in an extra tank and leaving her there for a couple of hours at night with a few locusts so the others won't eat them all up before she feels secure and in an eating mode. 

since we've had an empty 10 gallon tank (our old aquarium) I've made her a small setup (plant, hiding place, some wood for her to climb on and a bowl) and put her in. but after about half an hour I had to take her out because she was running around like crazy, trying to escape and finally she started jumping against the lid on the top... she was so freaked out I almost didn't manage to catch her(!). when I put her back into her usual tank she was calm again. 

so it really might be your tank's size. my other two frogs don't mind if I put them in there, so it seems to depend on the frog's character what size they're okay with - that's probably because your dumper doesn't act like that. I keep fingers crossed she'll be happy in her new enclosure.

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## Kurt

> to expand on the question of temparature and lighting, would a 60 watt incandescent plant bulb be to bright for the frog, or should a red bulb be used instead?


Depends on the size of the enclosure. In a ten-gallon tank, a 60 watt incandescent bulb will cook whatever lives in it.

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## Ra

> Depends on the size of the enclosure. In a ten-gallon tank, a 60 watt incandescent bulb will cook whatever lives in it.


  I'm housing my White's Tree Frog in a 25 gallon tall terrarium (for now) and as the warm season closes up I need to get a good heat source going for the tank. I need something that will bring the temparature about 5 to 8 degrees higher,

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## Crystal6

Is it okay to keep 2 white's in one 20gallon? *mentally preparing myself for if I decide to get a second one*

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## Kurt

> I'm housing my White's Tree Frog in a 25 gallon tall terrarium (for now) and as the warm season closes up I need to get a good heat source going for the tank. I need something that will bring the temparature about 5 to 8 degrees higher,


Just be real careful and monitor it vigilantly.

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## Kurt

> Is it okay to keep 2 white's in one 20gallon? *mentally preparing myself for if I decide to get a second one*


Its probably ok in a twenty high or extra high, A twenty long, not so much.

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## into

> Is it okay to keep 2 white's in one 20gallon? *mentally preparing myself for if I decide to get a second one*


I recently put 2 in a 20 gallon and it didn't go well. I had to upgrade. Of course now they are in a tank that's almost twice the size and they both want out...  maybe it's because it's their first night and everything seems new to them or maybe it's the thunder storm. But I would say 30 is better for 2.

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## Kurt

Thas what mine are in.

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## Crystal6

I have realized the impractical nature of feeding a pet frog crickets every single day. (crickets get stressed out easy and don't like to eat when you just moved them)

Thus: Would 3 every two days be okay? (For 1)

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## Kurt

Sure.

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## Tom

I have never fed any of my animals everyday.

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## Crystal6

Cool.  :Big Grin:  We'll see how it goes. *excited* One more day of waiting.  :Frog Smile:

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## Crystal6

Aaaah my questions never end. Least I can do this though... BEHOLD!




I theorize it's a male but I don't know for sure. (It's one year old and the guy selling it didn't seem to know it's gender) Haven't given it a name yet. Playing around with various Japanese words and some character names. (Edgeworth and Glenn just don't seem to fit it's personality... For being a frog with a "calm disposition" he sure jumps a lot if I try to pick him up.)

Yeah he's a little dirty because his cage is entirely organic except the filter. (Dirt, grass, bamboo plants, bonsai tree....) My next question is: Are English Thyme safe for White's Tree Frogs? (considering putting it in there to help with the soil and such but not sure if it would be dangerous)

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## John Clare

"He" is lovely, thanks for sharing.  I don't know for certain, but I don't think thyme will do any harm.

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## into

> ... For being a frog with a "calm disposition" he sure jumps a lot if I try to pick him up...


White's seem to be very individual in their behavior. 

One of mine is totally tame and I think he actually likes sitting with me (Dumper), the other (Jade) is tame and will step out of his home onto my hand, but as soon as he's out, wants to go explore and won't sit still and my littlest one (Scooter) is terrified of the world right now and it takes some coaxing to get him out for feeding time. He calms down after he eats, but is still a little timid.

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## Crystal6

> White's seem to be very individual in their behavior. 
> 
> One of mine is totally tame and I think he actually likes sitting with me (Dumper), the other (Jade) is tame and will step out of his home onto my hand, but as soon as he's out, wants to go explore and won't sit still and my littlest one (Scooter) is terrified of the world right now and it takes some coaxing to get him out for feeding time. He calms down after he eats, but is still a little timid.


 
Mine is okay with being held now, but if I stay still for too long he gets bored and jumps onto the table. (Or whatever I'm sitting near) It doesn't seem to like water very much. Perhaps it thinks the water is cold. Any time I try to set him in it he jumps even if I was setting him on a rock or other stable object.


Edit: Luckily for me, the sealent I used for the water/dirt is broken and the dirt is somewhat flooded. (Swamp like) so he stays moist anyway.

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## Tom

If you were to put a plant in a cage that is edible for humans would it be safe to grow them in your cage and remove them to eat. They would be washed with a vegetable cleaner.

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## into

> If you were to put a plant in a cage that is edible for humans would it be safe to grow them in your cage and remove them to eat. They would be washed with a vegetable cleaner.


Well, the plant would have fertilizer.  What type of food are you thinking about?

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## Tom

I don't know maybe something like strawberries, or some kind of herbs. also couldn't you fertilize by misting with nutrient rich water like that from my feeder minnows tank.

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## Kurt

I don't think I would want to eat produce that came out of a frog's enclosure.

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## Crystal6

Probably depends on the type of frog. Probably. *isn't knowledgable in these things*

I might eat from a White's Treefrog habitat but I wouldn't try it from say.... a Sonoran Desert Toad. (My logic:Medical skin>Poisonous skin) I doubt it would taste very good or be very healthy either way though. O_o I advice a garden for things you want to eat. (Though granted, a frog would sure help as a natural pesticide)

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## Kurt

White's treefrogs have skin toxins as well. They are not as nearly bad as the _Ollotis alvaria_, but they are there.

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## Crystal6

> White's treefrogs have skin toxins as well. They are not as nearly bad as the _Ollotis alvaria_, but they are there.



Really?  :EEK!:  I didn't know that. Could they be dangerous to my cats? My frog doesn't seem to move much unless I let him out of the aquarium. So I have a habit of taking him out of the cage and letting "him" explore a little. (When "he" wants to go back in, he turns around and jumps back on my hand. Very strange...)

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## Kurt

I don't think they are very toxic.

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## Crystal6

Strange medical related questions time!

1 I put 2 kinds of wood in the tank. (I was kind of short on things for him to climb on so I gathered some fallen tree branches from my yard, washed them with soap/water, and froze them for a few days.) Unfortunatey I am not knowledgable in which kinds of wood rot when wet and which kinds do not. Thus about a week later the cage started smelling kinda bad and the lighter colored wood turned white. ( :Frown:  Live and learn...) When I discovered this, I immediately removed that piece of wood but left the darker colored ones in. (since they do not seem to be rotting... I think.) My question: *Could this be harmful to the frog? Should I take it out and totally clean/redo the cage?* He still explores a lot if I let him out of the cage and eats normally. I don't see any strange wounds or anything unusual that might be different from when I got him except he's a little more brown then before. (I assume from the cold. His tank is 80 in the day time but when I turn the heat lamp off at night it gets down to 70-65 temps.)

2 When I got him he was energetic as a wild bred and didn't have any cuts or bruises blemishes or the like. (Only 1 year old so it made sense) But I noticed that the under side of his legs were red. Is this normal for White's Tree Frogs? (I never saw it mentioned in the care sheets)

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## Tom

There is a good article about wood here 
Caudata Culture Articles - Wood in Vivaria

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## Kurt

> My question: *Could this be harmful to the frog? Should I take it out and totally clean/redo the cage?*  His tank is 80 in the day time but when I turn the heat lamp off at night it gets down to 70-65 temps.)


You can leave the wood in. The tempertures are fine. Most likely he/she has turned brown because the tank in on the dark side either light-wise or color-wise.




> But I noticed that the under side of his legs were red. Is this normal for White's Tree Frogs? (I never saw it mentioned in the care sheets)


Yes, for the hidden areas of the legs.

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## Crystal6

> You can leave the wood in. The tempertures are fine. Most likely he/she has turned brown because the tank in on the dark side either light-wise or color-wise.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, for the hidden areas of the legs.


Neat! Glad to hear it. (Was afraid it had red leg or something)

On a random note I've finally probably chosen a name for it. (Using Japanese to compensate for lack of imagination in naming) Retsu-chishio! (Cold-Blood. Just Retsu-chi for short due to my dislike for very long names) Would have named it "Likes Warmth" but "Atsui Hoshii Desu" doesn't seem to have the same ring to it.  (Again. Takes too long to say or type.)

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## Tom

Haha I like it.

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