# Frogs & Toads > Mantella & Other Mantellidae > Beginner Discussion >  Bronze or Brown Mantellas?

## Geo

This is one of the two Mantella frogs I obtained this week. Tiny little frogs with an absolutely gorgeous golden brown colour and a very cool looking pattern on their back. It is about 1 inch in size, fast moving and shy. One of them seems to have the tendency to burrow into the loose moss at the back of the small terrarium that I presently have them in. 

I was wondering if someone can clarify if they are either brown or bronze mantellas. I have read that there is no obvious difference between the two species outside of which region they happen to be found in and of course dna (which isn't commonly available). The pet store in which I bought these cuties listed them as bronze mantellas and from the lengthy chat I had a couple of days after the purchase that I got the impression initially that they may have been wild caught although their general policy for the reptile / amphibian section is that they get stock from captive breeders. I am also alittle confused as to the type of habitat I should set up. Some say a habitat very similar to dart frogs, or with a small swim area, others say dry but a minimum rain system, others say misting with small water dish, etc, etc. I am planning on buying this week and medium size Exo Terra and a cannister based rain system, live plants and a small shallow swim area. Will this suffice? I have also fed them very small meal worms from the colony I use to feed my fire bellies.

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## Terry

The pictures do not show very much detail, so identification is a bit difficult. Here is my thought: among the genus _Mantella_, there are five species groups recognized. Of the five, it looks like your frogs are part of the _Mantella betsileo_ group, which includes the species of _betsileo_, _ebenaui_, _expectata_ and _viridis_.

Information on captive care Marc Staniszewski's Mantella FAQ

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## bill

Looks like a Mantella Betsileo. Their care is kind of a cross between a tree frog and a dart frog. The Betsileo have a very broad range in the wild. They range from the arid mountain regions of western/ south western madagascar to the tropical rainforests on the east coast. If they were captive bred, your best bet is to find out what conditions the breeder kept them in.

Otherwise, Marc's page that Terry linked to is indeed the finest care sheet out there.

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## Geo

Thank you both for the suggestions. I have a plan I will be putting into action this week based off the info. Right now the biggest challenge is the feeding as they dont seem to like neither the fruit flies nor the baby meal worms i have offered. I returned to the pet store to attempt to get more info from them regarding origins and previous care methods but that was a failure. I am, at least for the present, left with the notion that these may be wc mantellas.

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## bill

Here is the home for my mantellas. I do not run a heater in my system. I am putting them through natural seasons, so right now they are going through a dry, cold season http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...aludarium.html
As far as feeding, not sure what to tell you. Mine eat fruit flies very freely. What were they eating at the shop you nought them from? 

And a majority of mantellas in the pet trade are wc. Very few people breed them.

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## Geo

As irony would have it, it was that very thread that made up my mind what I want to do in regard to habitat setup! Lol. As for what they ate at the pet shop I was told crickets. I asked was it pin head crickets. The young lad said no, just regular size crickets. I said that would be difficult due to the size of the frog. Anyhooooo, I will do the best for them as I have for my other critters. Planning to start the palidarium setup this weekend after the rush of work shifts slows down.

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## bill

Yeah, there's no way these guys are eating anything bigger than a pinhead. You can also try a different species of fruit fly if they are available to you.

I'm glad my tank could be of some inspiration for you. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

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## Geo

Thank you for the offered assistance. The Frog Forum is an informative and much needed resource for persons new to amphibian care and husbandry, and experienced persons alike such as yourselves. With the need for conservation and species preservation occurring  everywhere across the globe, it well may be in time that people such as ourselves who will be keeping alive certain amphibian species long after their natural habitats have been destroyed due to deforestation, agricultural development and pollution. For some it may be just a hobby while for others it can turn into a noble cause. Hopefully this on-line resource will be around for some time.

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## bill

Very well said!!!!! I couldn't agree more. That's why i hope mine breed. I don't want to make a living breeding frogs, bjt every cb frog that enters the market is one in the wild that has been saved. At least that's how i like to see it. I know it is not reality, but at least i can give it a shot.

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## Bdimas

Beautiful frogs! Have you tried feeding springtails or termites? My frogs love springtails.

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## Geo

Termites I have but they don't seem to care for them. Springtails I don't have access to at the moment due to never having cultivated them (my fire belly toads & newts dont require them). Been checking with some local herp folks to see if anyone has some. The mantellas, to be honest, were initially a pet store rescue (sadly most of my pets are). I was not happy with what I saw and heard and wanted to take them into a situation where the options would be better. Having had success taking care of other amphibians I thought it would be an interesting opportunity to learn something new, and it has. I am also in a hurry to get a decent size habitat started for them but work obligations interfere with that. Blah, blah, blah.

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## Bdimas

Lol! I have a whites tree frog due to a pet store rescue. 

Springtails are easy. Keep them in a Tupperware or plastic container with charcoal or orchid bark. You can even do a combination of the two. Feed them a bit of uncooked rice or a bit of fish food every now and then and your good to go. Oh and you will want the substrate you choose to be damp.

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## Geo

Sadly Bill, the whole pet trade is at a point where in some situations it has become or will become an ironic necessary evil. There are species who 30 or 20 years ago were introduced into the pet trade but now exist only in the hobby community. Their natural habitat either no longer exists or has been significantly compromised by human interference. Those who have never cared for animals tend to automatically point to the excessive over harvesting of wild caught creatures and while that may be considered a valid point it sometimes is not an isolated factor. Ie - Deforestation, due to growing agricultural needs, is a major component in the shifting of ecological stability. If someone didn't initially remove a certain species from a region that would be quickly processed for say farming developments, that said species may have simply been wiped off the map and yet another sad entry in the book of extinction. Topics like this sometimes lack a distinct black and white but are a murky gray.

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## bill

and the truly sad thing is that it isn't isolated to frogs. all kinds of species are being wiped out. some to support expanding populations and some for just plain, flat out greed. but luckily for the hobbyist, others have kept species around in the hobby for others to enjoy. if there weren't people like us, our kids and their kids would miss out on some truly spectacular creatures  :Smile:

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## bill

> Lol! I have a whites tree frog due to a pet store rescue. 
> 
> Springtails are easy. Keep them in a Tupperware or plastic container with charcoal or orchid bark. You can even do a combination of the two. Feed them a bit of uncooked rice or a bit of fish food every now and then and your good to go. Oh and you will want the substrate you choose to be damp.


yeah, the old pet store rescue. it's the reason i have 6 white's and not 2...lol

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## Will

> yeah, the old pet store rescue. it's the reason i have 6 white's and not 2...lol


I am there with you, as soon as my quar. tank is free again I will be picking up yet another rescue Whites if some one does not rescue him in the next week. 

I hope your mantellas breed, if so I will be interested for sure. I agree with what you said about cb to wc. I have been lucky and 10 of my frogs have been from local breeders and they are all hearty. The rescues are the ones that I cannot say for sure but I will take a wc if its the difference between a long life or a death sentence in the wrong conditions.

I was lucky enough to influence the manager at my local Petco to not carry PDFs.  I actually spent 45 minutes going over proper care with her and she flat out said with the policies in place we cannot offer that kind of care.  She said that she would not be adding the PDFs to the inventory and that was well over a year ago, so I like to think my concern and objections is the reason they are not selling them.

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## Geo

A better photo of one of my mantellas and their new habitat.

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## Heather

> yeah, the old pet store rescue. it's the reason i have 6 white's and not 2...lol


Bill, that too is why I have 7 green retf's rather than the 2 green and 2 albino's I had originally planned for, and why I have 3 pacs rather than one.

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## Heather

My daughter and I did some research on endangered to extinct frogs and toads last year to teach the kids at school. As we read, the problem was surprisingly more widespread and worse than we had thought. There was a said close to estimated 200 species extinct or leaning towards extinct. The golden toad, golden mantellas, and so many more. By the time the save the frogs week came, we had so many posters they covered two long hallways at school, the large magnet board in the library, all of the library tables, and the whole one wall in the classroom that we presented in. And we didn't even begin to cover it all. 

Between Chytrid, Ranavirus, habitat destruction (by us humans,  unfortunately), the food industry (bullfrogs), and wild caught for hobbyists the numbers have declined dramatically in the last few decades. And of course, there are more causes. That's just a few.

Hobbyists breeding to increase numbers I believe is great, so long as we do a good job in caring for them. And the true scientific rescue and release projects have managed to keep some species from crossing the endangered to extinct line. I would love to be a part of that. The most we have done is toads and turtles that aren't on the endangered list. Though that has to be done with caution too as to heeling them clean or shall I say infectious-free and should only be released if native to that location or area. 

I know you already know all of this. As I was reading I felt the desire to join in  :Smile: .

I'd  love to see your bronze babies multiply  :Smile: . And I believe giving them to educated, good caretakers or hobbyists is a good thing. (Feel free to send them to this nice adopter  :Wink: ). I think keeping a species healthy and increasing their numbers is great, in that way. 

Amphibian Ark has some good reading  :Wink: . 

Anyway....back to your thread  :Smile: .

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## Lynn

It's beautiful , Geo !

Here's are 2_ browns_: ?
Mantella ebenaui - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Brown mantella - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dream dream dream !!!   :Big Grin: 
Mantella - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lynn

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## bill

Very cool set up Geo. Reminiscent of a cliffside valley stream rumning through the east side of madagascar. I think i saw that scene in a documentary rhe other night  :Smile:

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## Geo

Thanks all. I am planning to add mosses on the bottom for greenery and a few areas as leaf litter sections. Using crushed almond leaf that I had around for my bettas. I would like to find something natural to add to the back wall that will grow and spread. Right now I am thinking of adding java moss as I find that to be easy. If anyone has any suggestions please pass them along. This is also my first setup with a false bottom as my pervious setups involved having waterfalls, pools and so on. This time I am trying to go for something different and more relevant to a climber rather then a swimmer species. I was inspired to try this based of some of Bill's stuff. The exo terra is the cubed 18 x 18 x 18. Would, if I have a lot of plants and such, I be able to keep 4 mantellas in this comfortably or is that pushing it? I have two in there at present. Should I cover the top to maintain humidity or partial cover it or leave it open as I am a bit confused if they prefer cool or warm / humid. I am ordering wingless fruit fly culture to provide a food source. I have noticed that they have a preference for the croton plant over the sheffllera and ivy that are presently in there.

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## Geo

It is a sad contradiction of sorts Heather but my take is that at this point those of us who care should do what we can to foster our interest in these things and attempt to participate by caring well for the creatures we have and help others do the same. I don't agree with the whole pet trade wild capture angle but that doesn't prevent me from making the odd purchase to save the animal from the horrible conditions I see at some of the pet shops. Hopefully the hobby, such as ourselves, will someday reach a point where we all act as a sort of breeding conservation community rather then just a pet hobby. I take the welfare of any animal in my care very seriously as it is a responsibility once you choose to bring them into your home. I just hope I can resist buying more terrariums haha. I have 2 so far which is probably nothing in comparison to some of you all but my living room doesn't look like a living room any more lol. Add to that my wife's fish tanks, our three dogs, 4 budgies, geckos, snakes and so on, I think I live in a zoo.

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## Heather

> It is a sad contradiction of sorts Heather but my take is that at this point those of us who care should do what we can to foster our interest in these things and attempt to participate by caring well for the creatures we have and help others do the same. I don't agree with the whole pet trade wild capture angle but that doesn't prevent me from making the odd purchase to save the animal from the horrible conditions I see at some of the pet shops. Hopefully the hobby, such as ourselves, will someday reach a point where we all act as a sort of breeding conservation community rather then just a pet hobby. I take the welfare of any animal in my care very seriously as it is a responsibility once you choose to bring them into your home. I just hope I can resist buying more terrariums haha. I have 2 so far which is probably nothing in comparison to some of you all but my living room doesn't look like a living room any more lol. Add to that my wife's fish tanks, our three dogs, 4 budgies, geckos, snakes and so on, I think I live in a zoo.


We feel the same. I give mine the best care possible. I feel if you can't provide what they need, then you shouldn't have them. 

It would be great to assist in a conservation program. I'd love to be a true part of Amphibian Ark or another habitat fostering group. If we can keep species producing in a healthy manner than that in itself is a good thing. The breakdown of the healthy species seems to be at the level of the pet stores. Not all, but mostly within the chain stores that only want to ship them in and push them out without proper care and poor education both of the stores and then providing poor teaching to their customers. It's a shame. If we can break that cycle, then many of the ailments frog hobbyists run into would be less of an issue. 

I agree...I only buy captive bred. But, if the opportunity arose for me to purchase a rare exotic breed, would I? I can't say that I wouldn't. But, I would take great care of the frogs and would hopefully encourage breeding.

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## Heather

No worries, lol!!! We live in an organized zoo too  :Big Grin: . 

I still wish I'd hit the lottery to truly have an amphibian/reptile zoo  :Smile: .

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## bill

> Thanks all. I am planning to add mosses on the bottom for greenery and a few areas as leaf litter sections. Using crushed almond leaf that I had around for my bettas. I would like to find something natural to add to the back wall that will grow and spread. Right now I am thinking of adding java moss as I find that to be easy. If anyone has any suggestions please pass them along. This is also my first setup with a false bottom as my pervious setups involved having waterfalls, pools and so on. This time I am trying to go for something different and more relevant to a climber rather then a swimmer species. I was inspired to try this based of some of Bill's stuff. The exo terra is the cubed 18 x 18 x 18. Would, if I have a lot of plants and such, I be able to keep 4 mantellas in this comfortably or is that pushing it? I have two in there at present. Should I cover the top to maintain humidity or partial cover it or leave it open as I am a bit confused if they prefer cool or warm / humid. I am ordering wingless fruit fly culture to provide a food source. I have noticed that they have a preference for the croton plant over the sheffllera and ivy that are presently in there.


i apologize Geo, i meant to respond to this days ago, and got caught up in my own little world. i think putting 4 in that tank would be pushing it, unless (i always have an unless) you have a confirmed 2 males and 2 females. mantellas are weird, females stay on the floor, while the males pick out a territory and climb high to defend it. so you would have 2 occupying the ground and 2 occupying the land. that would most likely work.

humidity, i keep mine in the high 70's. i don't heat my tank, and the tank is in a relatively unheated basement. i have a space heater to keep my part of the man/frog/fish cave at a nice 70. so they get cooler temps at night and warmer temps during the day. not as extreme as what is outside, but more like their natural habitat. and remember, if you plan on breeding them, this would be their cold, dry season (June for them). i have links for the climate of Madagascar if you need them. yeah, i researched thoroughly before i built....LOL

oh, and they are wonderful little interior decorators. one of my males has dug out a spot to hide under my oak leaf fig and the females are constantly rearranging little things on the floor. subtle changes, but i notice them. i need to stop staring at my tanks for so long...lol

btw, i just ordered 8 of those little cuties tonight, i should have them this week  :Smile:

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## Geo



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## bill

looking good!! you've got them climbing the walls already!!LOL

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## Geo

Interesting Bill that you mentioned the difference between male and females. The two I have remain low and prefer to typically stay near their hiding spots. Maybe they are females although one seems to be getting a bit more adventurous the past few days and can be found on top of a low rock periodically, no calls just yet soooo. I noticed the burrowing habit the other day when the more reclusive one was in the back pushing backwards on some loose moss and made a little cave for itself that it hangs around a lot now.

I keep the humidity up and have no main heat source other then a bit of heat from the light above although I keep the top uncovered to allow a certain amount of heat escape. I mist heavy twice daily but may cut back alittle on how much per misting as one small area has a big of white hairy fungus appearing. I am hoping that after I have some cultures going strong I can introduce something small to the habitat that hopefully will control that. I had built a false buttom that appears to be helping. The plants appear at this point to be settling in and growing ok. I might add java moss to some of the dried branches to make it a bit more moist for them.

I have noticed that with the presence of moss, plants, coconut husk, and crushed dried leaves they seem to prefer the leaves no matter dry or wet. I mad a video of the habitat earlier today that I will be putting online shortly.

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## bill

you'll be able to tell more in a week or so. once they are settled in, you'll know which are which. now, that's not fool proof, but it's a good indicator. 

is the fungus on wood? wood will get white fungus from time to time. in fact, don't be surprised if it appears and disappears over the course of the next few weeks.

the like the leaves because that's their natural domain, hence the brown coloring. but i am sure you figured that one out by now. 

ya know, you may be able to put 2 more in there. i forgot how small they are. i was comparing them to my M. Baroni this evening and the Baroni really dwarf them. oh, did i mention i just got 8 M. Betsileo, like yours?  :Wink:

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## Geo

Congrats on your growing mantella nation lol. I plan to get a much larger terrarium in the near future after I get a feel for it via this smaller unit. The fungus is on some wood so I will leave it alone to see what happens unless it gets out of hand. I have included a link to a new video I just finished. I intend to do a better one as soon as the frogs have settled in a bit with better image, audio and info.

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## Geo



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## Geo

I tried to get a better pic this morning as one of them was out but the moment I approach with a camera its hide and seek time.

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## bill

> I tried to get a better pic this morning as one of them was out but the moment I approach with a camera its hide and seek time.


What a cutie!! Definitely a M. Betsileo. They are good for hiding from the camera....lol

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## bill

> Congrats on your growing mantella nation lol. I plan to get a much larger terrarium in the near future after I get a feel for it via this smaller unit. The fungus is on some wood so I will leave it alone to see what happens unless it gets out of hand. I have included a link to a new video I just finished. I intend to do a better one as soon as the frogs have settled in a bit with better image, audio and info.


I left you a commenr on YT, but i'll leave it here as well. You did a heck of a job here. I love the depth. The tank looks much bigger than it's true size. Great job!!

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## Geo

Thanks. I decided to try to find safe tropical plants that I can train to mature but remain small. From what I read online the shefflera have been used in bonsai so I thought I would give it a try. I also introduced small clump of various mosses from my other habitat. I am trying to keep things in there that are comparable in size to the frogs themselves. I noticed this morning that there appears to be grass starting to grow and a few tiny buds of something or other. I also have a few small black bugs making an appearance although from where I have no idea as it wasn't on the plants. I will add a photo if I can as I would like to try and identify what they are.

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## Geo



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## Geo

http://www.frogforum.net/groups/mantella-madness.html

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## Geo

Was rather excited this morning. Woke up, turned on the habitat light, misted, came back and dropped off a few tiny bugs, walked by a few minutes later and saw both frogs up front and eating for the first time. I guess you are a frogger when you find this kind of thing exciting. They remained active and then headed to the back where it is heavily planted. They did pose for me for a bit which allowed me to capture a few really good photos.

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## Geo

Well, I discovered that the bug that I was feeding to the matellas, and which they love, is called the larder beetle. Specifically they are very interested in the LB grub. They are very easy to grow as a food if you are familiar with raising meal worms and such. I put some dried dog food in a screened aquarium with some wood and soil from outside, sphagnum moss, rice, cereal and forest bark. Mist it periodically and before you know it you got grubs.

File:Larder beetle grub.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## bill

Very cool George. If you weren't in canuck-ville, i would see a trade in our future......lol i will look around for them. My littlin's  could use something as a treat food.  :Smile:

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## Lynn

> Very cool George. If you weren't in canuck-ville, i would see a trade in our future......lol i will look around for them. My littlin's  could use something as a treat food.


I give up where is "_canuck-ville_". I thought I knew Philly? Guess not.

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## bill

Lynn, Canuck-ville is my very unpolitically correct way of saying Canada.....LOL

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## Lynn

> Lynn, Canuck-ville is my very unpolitically correct way of saying Canada.....LOL


Oh  :Big Grin:  I thought it was some place in Philly . How silly

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## bill

don't fret, my wife of 21 years doesn't even understand all my euphemisms....LOL but luckily for me, George knows i have quite a bit of respect for him to not take it as an insult  :Smile:

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## Will

Huh I'm not sure what that says about me then, I knew exactly where you were headed with that!

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## bill

it says you are just as twisted as i am Will......must be in the name....LOL

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## Will

Touche my friend, touche!

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## Geo

We northern cousins have no probs with using Canucks (or Canuck-ville). I use it quite often as I see it as an empowering nickname for us Canadians. Quite frankly it is sort of cool sounding.

Fits in with who we are and what we gave you Americans (which you should be eternally grateful for lol) - maple syrup, hockey, butter tarts, toques, Newfoundland dogs, lacrosse (we're sorry for that one), snowmobiles, Superman, walkie talkies, smarties, the lightbulb, basketball (you can keep that one), beavertails (the pastry that is), poutine, Tim Hortons, the Beachcombers, the ability to use Eh and still be cool, two-fours (24 beers), insulin, Montreal smoked meat and bagels, and the finale is DUCT TAPE.

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## Will

You lost me at Hockey.  That is 1 of my other passions besides frogs!  Go Maple Leafs!

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## bill

Well, you guys gave us REAL hockey. You can have the garbage that they call hockey nowadays back....lol and you missed a few important ones. You guys also gave us SCTV, Molson and where would the egg mcmuffin be without that delicious ham?

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## bill

Oh, and i forgot that you guys also gave us the lumberjack mystique which without the monty python troop would never have given us the lumberjack song!!

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## Will

> Well, you guys gave us REAL hockey. You can have the garbage that they call hockey nowadays back....lol


Actually I hate to say it but this season is awesome.  I hated the whole lock out thing but in the end it has made the season better.  Every game means more so the game play is intense.  The teams are playing at a different level then usual.  The only thing I am hating is no west vs east so my team is not coming to Co. this year.  Oh well half season means the hockey package at a discounted price so LOTS and LOTS of hockey being watched in my house, and the beers are not $7 each!

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## bill

$7?? your beers are cheap!!LOL last time i went, they were $8.50  :Frown:  honestly, i haven't seen one game this year. i played ice hockey as a youngster for 11 years and i love the game. the original game....lol too many rule changes to make the sport more "mainstream" and more corporate money. since they "greztky-fied" the sport, it's just not the same  :Frown:  but, it seems that money does that to sports. it seems to find a way to remove the purity of them, it's sad really. i now prefer to go to minor league games. i feel as though i get a better game because there's a lot less money involved, salary wise, and the players have more heart and love for the game. it's not about money to them. just my opinion obviously....LOL

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## Will

I agree with you about the minor league.  There just are not enough televised.  I liked that during the lockout the NHL channel filled their lineup with the minor league games.  Amazing hockey, the stick work, passing and teamwork is so fun to watch. You just do not see that in the NHL like you should, everybody is always trying to make themselves look better for contract time! I agree the game is not what it used to be but out of all the sports out there Hockey and Football are the only ones I watch.

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## Geo

Observations:

- The croton plants aren't coping very well with the environmental needs of the mantellas. The leaves have started to fall off. Been cutting them up and making debris with them. The Mantellas liked hanging out in the plants for some reason. The schefflera plants are doing very well but the mantellas don't appear to have any interest in them. Going to introduce a few other small tropical plants. The ivy that I introduced 2 weeks ago is doing well and the mantellas retreat to them whenever I am working on habitat maintenance. I may take a few cuttings and spread the ivy around more. 

- The Mantellas seem to like to burrow. One in particular will move around the moss / leaf bits and make a small cave to back up into. I haven't seen that type of behaviour in any of my other frogs / toads. I haven't noticed any territorial stance yet which suggests that they both may be female. They more or less hang out together in the left side of the habitat near the largest clump of ivy.

- I, at this point, assume that they are females as I have heard no calling at all and have seen no territorial related behaviour. I haven't excluded the fact that I have only had them about a month, that I may not have introduced the correct dry / wet or light cycles in their habitat to trigger the mating, or maybe they are simply settling in still.

- They seem to be doing ok on the larder beetle grubs and the periodic tiny meal worm. They have continued to ignore the pinhead crickets. I can't wait until a couple of more months when I can wild forage small bugs from my backyard. It is against the law here in Cape Breton to use any type of chemicals on our lawns so I know the pollution level is absent.

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## bill

yeah, croton plants are tempermental when it comes to humidity. some like it, some don't. don't you just love how they burrow?? i have a nice sized coconut hide in my brown's temp enclosure and they would rather burrow under it than hang out inside it. go figure...LOL you are probably right on the money as far as no calling. if they aren't getting the proper climate changes, they will be silent. they only call when their rainy season starts. from what i understand, they are not the easiest to breed.

i am really surprised that yours don't eat fruit flies. mine eat about 250 per sitting. granted, there are 8 mantellas in there, but still. that many fruit flies and they are gone within about 3 minutes. ravenous little buggers....LOL definitely some of the coolest creatures i have had the pleasure to own. folks can have the new world darts, i'm totally hooked on the old world ones  :Smile:

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## Geo

I am intending to try a few more plants to see if I can find the right combo for the terrarium, the climate needed and the mantella's interest level.

Yeah, their eating habits are a bit unusual according to the norms. I am happy to see that they munch on the grubs but I am not certain if they are too fatty or not enough nutrition for them. If they are wild caught, which at present I am lead to believe they are, then they should eat whatever I would think as no preferential training has been in place regarding their diet.

lol I do indeed find the burrowing interesting. I also had a small coconut hut in there but that was ignored. I made a few small caves out of slate but that too was ignored. They seemed to prefer moss and leaf debris so moss and leaf debris it will be. 

I have ordered two more mantellas which I am hoping will arrive within the next week or so. The pet store that I got the first two at indicated that they weren't available but they were tracking some down. I may try breeding springtails and introducing that into their diet as well.

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## bill

i know there is very little captive breeding for mantellas, with the exception of the golden mantella, so the likelihood of our mantellas being wild caught is high. you should try contacting understory enterprises. they are in the land of the canuck. i hear they have mantella captive breeding programs. although, i am not sure what species they breed.

springtails are a good idea. for some reason, i thought you said you tried 'tails with them, hence the reason i never mentioned them.

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## Geo

I contacted Understory and the frogs were cheap but to ship the frogs costed over $100. Outside my price league right at the moment as I am planning habitat upgrades for my tree frogs, fire belly newts and firebelly toads.

I got a limited supply of springtails from someone else in the area and ran out in my attempt to introduce them to the mantella diet. I will be starting that shortly. Busy, busy, busy.

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## bill

wow, that's ridiculous for shipping!! i guess they ship from the U.S.  :Frown:  

you sound as busy as i am....lol after the 125 is finished in a few weeks, i have a 40 breeder project i am building into a carnivorous plant paludarium and i have to build a paludarium for some sort of reptile in my wife's 55g. after that, if the mood strikes me, i am considering converting my 75g from a planted tank into a mossy tree frog paludarium, themed as the swamps of dagobah from star wars. busy busy busy here too.....LOL

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## Geo

On top of work and a busy home life, we are in the process of moving to a new home so not alot of time for the new projects floating around presently in my head. My wife is shutting down her 55g and giving it to me so now I am playing around with a few ideas for that. My niece has shown an interest in fire belly toads so contemplating passing them along to her and that opens up my large exoterra for a new project. Dang it, too many options lol. The distributor for the local petshop where I got the mantellas said that the ones I got seem to be the last ones they could get, at least for now. I may order some if I can find someone who can deliver here for a decent price.

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## Lynn

Hi Geo,
Well what ever you decide ! 
Enjoy !
 :Butterfly:

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## bill

i'm in the same boat my friend.housing issues caused me to rehome all of my frogs. took all the fish tanks down as well.  :Frown:  on the upside though. i worked out deal with my buddy who took my frogs, to get them back once my housing issues are resolved.  :Smile:

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## Geo

I can feel for ya Bill. I told my wife that as soon as our house move is done and we are settled in I will be starting up a "big" frog project. I have kept the two mantellas but have no idea how to move their terrarium as it is soooo heavy. Ugh

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## Geo

Just a quick update. The Mantellas have been doing great inside the 50 gallon habitat that they have been sharing with the chinese fire belly newts, betta, dwarf shrimp, etc.

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