# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  White's Tree Frog constipated!

## Ganondorf

Hello! I do apologize if I am doing something wrong; surfing the 
internet wielded some different results, and I wanted to join this forum in hopes I could talk
to some people with good experience!

 About two weeks ago I adopted a WTF from Petco. Large, loved to eat!
 But now he (she?) has no interest in food. Twice the frog threw up (what looked like the fine coconut
husk substrate I use), and has no interest in food.

 I also noticed him trying to poop, but unable to get it all out. 
His skin is normal, eyes are clear and has no problems soaking/crawling/climbing.

 I guess my question is, what should I use/do to ease constipation? Before I take him to a vet I want
to see if I can help him first. After this I plan on changing the substrate to a very nice 'carpet' I saw at the store!
 (very very soft, tried tugging and nothing came up which makes me think he wouldn't be able to eat it).

 I don't want him to die, especially since he's a sweetheart and I don't want to be irresponsible, you know?

Yes, I am a first time owner and would be glad to share the tank size/humidity levels and etc!

Thank you again!

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## elly

Hi! For constipation you might want to give him a lukewarm water bath (check with a thermometer to make sure it's not too hot) to get his system moving. It helps if you use something like a plastic box with a lid because the frog won't want to stay in the bath at all! Make sure the water's dechlorinated and shallow enough not to go over his head.

Soft foods can ease a frog's constipation, but then they're worms and frogs prefer food that moves faster than worms even when they have a healthy appetite. Still if you wanted to try, hornworms are high in water (the kind you get from a pet store, wild ones are toxic bc of diet), cut up nightcrawlers can be used (but not red wrigglers or tigerworms, those taste bad). Waxworms can also be used, but if the frog accepts them he might just refuse to eat other foods. Waxworms are like frog donuts- high in fat and calories but not terribly nutritious.

How long has the frog refused to eat? The carpet sounds nice but make sure there aren't any loops in it that a frog foot would get caught in.

Here's a link to some questions if you feel like copypasting and answering them. http://www.frogforum.net/showthread.php?t=30850  They might help people figure out if there's anything wrong with the frog besides constipation.

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## Ganondorf

Ahh thanks so much!

 Currently I can see him trying to push  out stool (with some visable but not moving).
 I fear he devoured some of  the substrate or frog moss (which I just learned is actually bad for  frogs).

 Uhm.. about a week he refused. Three crickets were left  in there and I only see one; I'm assuming he ate them. 
 And I'll make sure!  It's super 'moss soft' carpet but I'm going to inspect it thoroughly.



1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)

White's Tree Frog. 


2----please include a photo of the frog 

He just had a soak, and the picture (his back) is
outside the glass, whereas his front pic is in.


Frog pic 1
Frog pic 2

3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure

*Note: Tapemarks are from the outside. This is an old tank that was washed
thoroughly with hot water before adopting him
enclosure


4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )

Unsure; we believe it's a 15gal Zoomed tank (I think it's Zoomed)


5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )

Just Deku (the WTF).


6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate 

Two weeks ago he was with four other WTF in his enclosure at Petco.


7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined 

Nope.


8----what is the typical humidity level

Not below 50%, no higher than 65%


9----what temperature is maintained

70-75 at day, 60-65 at night.


10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure

60 watt UVB basking light (forget the brand  name)


11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)

Basking light is a a dome light, turns on around 5-7 am (when we get up).
 Only on one side or in the middle.


12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)

Cleaning has not been done yet (frog has thrown up twice of which we have discarded),
 Water is changed every other day/every day depending on spoil level.


13---what kind of water is used

Poland Spring water (in jug).


-----for misting -PSW

-----for the frog's soaking dish -PSW

-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand -N/A


14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific 

Fine coconut husk for bottom, frog moss to keep humidity (we are removing that promptly)


15---enclosure set up:

-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned- Not cleaned as of yet other than picking up feces/vomit

-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric- A soft plastic (unsure if fabric)

-----describe wood, bark , and background materials- None as of yet; both Petcos do not have the sizes (too large or
just don't have it).


16---when is the last time the frog ate- 

About (possibly) two weeks ago.



17---have you found poop lately- 

No- he is constipated.



18---how often is the frog fed- 

Every other day.



19---what size feeder is given-

 Medium pinhead crickets



20---what other feeders are used as treats- 
None so far.



21---what is the frog's main food source- 
Pinhead crickets.



22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed- 

Free roam; currently stopped and tried tongs
to no avail.



23---vitamins - what brand and how often-

 N/A



24---calcium - what brand and how often-

 ReptiCalcium; was going for once every week.



25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time- 

Unsure at petco; dusted when first fed.



26---approximate age of the frog- 

Unsure.



27---how long have you owned the frog- 

A little over two weeks.



28---who cared for the frog before you-

 Petco.



29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred- 

Guessing captive; very calm when handled



30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)- 

Gloves are not used (we run our hands in hot water before handling);
haven't handled since last week (we only handled him twice in our two weeks of owning.)



31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area-

 Low; other than a few games it's quiet.



30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)-

 Unsure.



-----for how long- 

N/A



32---has the frog been treated with any medication:

No.

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## elly

Ahh, frog moss can be awful. If the hot bath doesn't work, some people suggest giving the frog some kind of oil but I've never been able to find anything saying whether that would be toxic to them or not. Hate to say it, but if he doesn't poop in a while a vet visit might be the only thing left to do (unless someone else wants to chime in with something I've never heard of?). Impaction (severe constipation) can eventually kill frogs.

Your care looks pretty good, all I can see is that it might be a bit cold at night.

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## Ganondorf

Sorry for the late reply!

 He's still trying to push it out, but he can't get it all the way.
 I'm going to go to Petco today and grab some things, and see if they have any hornworms.
 He hasn't eaten so it might not work..

 Also, where can I get chlorinated water tablets? Or is it safe to heat up the spring water in the microwave?
 I really  want to try to save him. I'm looking up exotic pet vets in our area, but the closest one seems to have better
knowledge of birds than anything.

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stinax182

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## Ganondorf

Ok, so she went. I think she was impacted for a longer time, and now I think her intestines are also out. I'm sorry for double posting but I'm not sure what to do. Will be calling vet.

EDIT: I am trying a sugar/water soak. He does have a prolapse but is more than energetic. I called all 5 vets, and none will take him. One vet even changed her tone when I asked if they'd help a White's Tree Frog.

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## elly

oh no, those can be bad and can cause necrosis if they dry out and get infected. If it doesn't go in, try (very gently) using a dampened q-tip to push it in.

you don't need water chlorinating tablets, I think you meant de-chlorinator? It's usually in bottles and can be found anywhere they sell stuff for fish. The kind for fish is fine.

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## Ganondorf

Ok, I was just reading that, ha!
 And yes sorry; I'm glad to know the fish ones are ok!

 I don't know if it went through, but he stayed in the sugar/water soak for 10 minutes.
 It;s clean but didn't go back in.

 The prolapse is too bad for me to push in with a q-tip, but I tried to sprinkle a very small 
amount of sugar on the prolapse as read in another thread.

Here's a picture of the prolapse; at this point without the vets' help, I don't know what to do.
 I don't want to be a bad owner haah :/.

Now, I'll just put a picture in link form in case people don't want to see it.
 Since this picture it has gone in a little, but not all the way.

http://orig11.deviantart.net/0f51/f/...ds-da9uph8.jpg

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## AAron

Soak it in sugar water for around 20 minutes and check it the next day. Should work


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## elly

THat looks pretty nasty! I'm sorry and I hope the soak works.

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## Ganondorf

Soak didn't work, and it's still out.

 I don't know what to do at this point. I may have to take her to the vets to have her euthinized, which I don't want to, since aside from this she's really healthy and lively.
I don't know. I'll try another soak or the q tip to push it back in.

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## elly

I hope it eventually works. Sad to say there was a user here who had a frog with an infected prolapse and she needed to euthanize it at home. I think the post is still around here talking about that. Edit (Warning, sick frog picture at top): http://www.frogforum.net/showthread....ght=euthanasia 
Hope it doesn't come to that, but if the frog doesn't get better or the vet won't work on frogs it might be helpful.

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## Ganondorf

Oh man, I might have to. I don't really know. The frog is ridiculously healthy, but nothing seems to be working. Left the frog in there for over an hour in sugar water, nothing. Tried pushing it back in, nothing. I might see if my vets can put Deku to sleep because I don't think I can :/

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## Lija

If I'm not too late. It doesn't look good, but not too bad either. You need to place a frog in a quarantine. Clean papertowels changed daily, cover sides to minimize stress levels. 
Prolapse - you did great job so far. Try again to sprinkle sugar ( you can do more of it then before, cover the whole thing). The goal here is to lower the swelling and not to get bacteria involved. You won't be able to push it back unless the swelling is under control. Try sugar first. If swelling is reduced it should go back on its own.

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## Ganondorf

Yes! We have been changing the towels every day, keeping them warm, etc. For a few days it got worse, but today it seems small. It's still not in but also doesn't seem to have any signs of necrosis. 

 She (idk might be a he haha!), is very healthy still and so if Deku wants to fight, so will we. I just sprinkled sugar, and I'll try a soak later. 
Also, my WTF seems like they're trying to push out their prolapse which.. I don't know how to stop haha.

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## elly

There's still a chance then, glad it's looking smaller.
Eesh, sorry your other WTF seems like it's about to do the same. Maybe skip/reduce feeding for a bit or give them soft foods.

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## KMAC

I dont know if this helps you or not but is this type of thing not related to calcium deficieny/D3/UV?

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## KMAC

Im no expert in frogs but im doing a BSC in natural sciences and done a HND in Zoology so have a basic understanding of Biology, Chemistry and animal psychology so my theory would be just going on pictures alone is...deficency of calcium, D3, UV etc leading to >> bones weaker >> thus the pelvis being weaker also >> causing the prolapse

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stinax182

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## elly

I don't know. Some sources say that's a cause.
  I've also read that parasites can cause prolapse somehow(maybe through irritation?) Also this frog was impacted, most likely from moss so straining might have caused/contributed to the prolapse.

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## KMAC

Parasites would be my second choice when looking at this so I agree with you but I dont see any secondary infections but then diagnosing on pics alone aint best practice

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## Ganondorf

I've called over 5 different vets that were 'exotic ', none that took frogs. As posted before, they all seemed to change their tone when I said I needed help with my WTF. Seems to still be out, but I'll try another soak. Just wish Deku wpuld stop straining to push it out.

 Also, I have no way to test for parasites unless I can do it myself. 

And yes, it's definitely impaction, not deficiency. He passed the stool which was ridiculously large which is my guess for the prolapse.

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## elly

Yeah, plus I'm not even going to school for this, so you know, not an expert!

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stinax182

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## Lija

> Im no expert in frogs but im doing a BSC in natural sciences and done a HND in Zoology so have a basic understanding of Biology, Chemistry and animal psychology so my theory would be just going on pictures alone is...deficency of calcium, D3, UV etc leading to >> bones weaker >> thus the pelvis being weaker also >> causing the prolapse


no that is not correct. There is nothing in the pictures that would suggest MBD, although of course only X-ray diagnostics can confirm or not. 
The leading cause of prolapse is impaction, that is almost always due to swallowing something they can't digest - pieces of decor, coconut husk, moss, lots of chitin containing food ( mealworms, superworms), etc. Very rarely parasites are the cause.

in that particular case I very strongly susspect a frog came impacted from petco. 

To Ganondorf - can you please describe how are you soaking, in what and for how long? Please don't soak in anything for now and use only sugar or very sugary water directly on the prolapse. 

It's been too long, it needs to be surgically fixed. You need vet! 

Edit - just saw that vets in your area are not exactly seeing frogs and you live a bit too far to come to us  :Smile:  Try to call somebody else.
you can pm me, I'll see it faster then here, I'll try to help you more.

.

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elly

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## KMAC

I have a book called current therapy in exotic pet practice and all that has been mentioned above by everyone including me is very possible the full list of usual causes of this are GI disease, nematodiasis, MBD, gastric overload, intoxication (have you and your frog being having vodkas? Only kidding), hypocalcemia, impaction or obstruction.

 I would say more common is impaction, MBD, and protozoa parasite. If it was parasites it would be salt baths rather than sugar.

So as you can see given most of the possibilities its hard for anyone to give a true diagnosis of this when just using pictures. If you cant get a vet my suggestion is to contact your local university they may have the ability to do a quick ultrasound for you.

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## KMAC

I do think at this stage sugar is the best thing to get the prolapse to contract back, it should work eventually but surgically might be a lot quicker. I think I actually feel the same as the frog right now im on morphine due to a back injury from judo and my gut gets blocked and my treatment is lactulose (sugars) but it takes time for it to work but I get pain relief in couple of hours. So even though its not contracting straighr away I can only guess the sugar baths are providing some sort of relief?

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## Lija

You are mistaken  :Smile:  and it's different for human and for frogs, it's different for other exotic species too. You shouldn't trust one book or a few that are geared to general public, most specific textbooks are outdated too, hopefully new Merck textbook will be issued soon. Amphibian and in general exotic animal medicine is evolving very fast, and information that is available to us is not quite the same as to general public. 

 I'll address Protozoa a little - most of them are commensal and treatment is not needed. 
 And I'll explain the sugar usage too. 
Sugar is used to create hypertonic environment for water in the tissue migrate through the skin. It is what can be advised to safely do at home. We suggest sugary water as more diluted concentration for milder cases, full strength for situations like here. however if OP uses water or lower strength sugary water for soaks, the water goes back into the tissues. And the situation is not getting better. 

Salt is different, it is by no means is safe or used to treat parasites. 


Ganondorf, I'm sorry for off topic. Let's focus on helping you now  :Smile:

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elly

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## KMAC

Yeah sorry dood and thanks for the great info Lija and dont worry I know treatments for 1 animal is different to others and that all animal medicine is evolving, changing and better practices coming in. Im a big believer forums are where you see it first. But the book I also suggest is used by a lot of professionals but ill also keep an eye out on what you mentioned

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## Ganondorf

Sorry for the very late reply.
I don't know what to say.

 All this time the prolapse has been out, but today she suddenly (or he, unsure) started becoming active. Climbing on the cage, and on my fiancé's hand. Just checked on her and it looks like it went in. Completely.

 It's been almost a month and suddenly it goes back in. Is that possible? I mean, suddenly going in after a few weeks?
 She's a little red now, and I'm hoping it's because she was staying in one spot for a little while and not red leg.

 Going to buy crickets and hope she eats.

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stinax182

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## KMAC

Thats great news bud. Some times these things take time. Now its just a case of trying to identify possible causes such as impaction caused by substrate,  foods etc and making the necessary changes. Prevention is always the best way forward so look for any other environment changes etc that can be improved and then just try your best to provide those needs.

Thanks for letting us all know thats great news.

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## Ganondorf

Will do!

 Right now damp paper towel is substrate, because I'm almost certain the actual substrate caused it. 

 We found a very, very soft fake moss floor that we will use if it doesn't catch on the frog's feet. 
 In this time I'm going to call around again to see if there isn't a frog doctor around (even if it's an hour away I can drive it.)

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elly

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## elly

Glad the prolapse went back in! Hopefully it'll heal right up inside.

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## Ganondorf

Ah yes, I couldn't be happier!

Deku happily (and hungrily) ate two crickets yesterday with no problem. I'm just hoping there'll be no impaction (since we're using paper towels and she hasn't ingested it), and there won't be another prolapse.

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