# Frogs & Toads > African Bullfrogs >  WARNING: GRAPHIC VIDEO - Someone feeds a chameleon to a pyxie frog

## Cap10Squirty

I saw this on chameleonforum.com...not sure if it has already been posted here, but I wanted to express my feeling toward this idiot's actions. I don't think this person should be allowed on this forum nor the chameleon forum for doing such a horrible thing. I understand people have different view points on feeders, but this has been taken a little too far.

I certainly would not want this person offering advice to any new frog owners out there..
*
View at your own risk!
*Pyxie frog eats chameleon - YouTube

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## Daniel

As hard as it is to watch I can't really say much unless we know the back story. For all we know the guy breeds chams for feeders or this cham was a runt or something like that. I know people who feed leos, corn snakes and milks to their monitors and I respect it 100% They are also very knowledgeable and have helped me out a lot.

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## Cap10Squirty

Ok you have a valid point. What is more disturbing to me was seeing the comments. (I read them on chameleon forum; someone had pasted a few select youtube comments). Maybe the chameleon was a runt, but is that the way to "get rid of it" ?

I have my reservations about feeding my 4 foot monitor lizard something that it wouldn't come across in the wild (which isn't much in reality), but a pyxie frog...I'm almost certain that interaction only ever happened on youtube :P

I agree, I don't know the backstory either.

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## Daniel

I see the thread over there. Gonna post the same thing.

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## Cap10Squirty

I feel like it's going to receive more hate over there than it will over here. 

In the least, the chameleon went down relatively quick. If I were to feed some poor animal, say a kitten....say I bred kittens for my monitor lizard who would love to eat them....I would be forced to watch the monitor pull the kitten apart limb by limb. I know if that went on youtube, it would only be because I was trying to get attention for myself and my actions....I wonder why you don't see the hate when people feed a bucket of 65 large roaches to their lizard (which is what I did yesterday for my monitor's lunch).

I think communities like this usually have some sort of general line that is drawn as far as principles of captive care for the animals of interest such as what you feed the animal, how you house the animal, how you handle the animal, etc.

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## Daniel

We will see. I'm ready for anything  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Clearly this guy was trying to get attention. Whether he was trying to show off or get people mad or for other reasons idk.

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## Cap10Squirty

I don't like the bad rap that pyxie frogs are now going to get, if they already have not as being "dirty frogs" and "eat whatever they want".....which both can be true in a way haha. I love my frog though. I just heard it squeak around in its enclosure...I think I'll go talk to it about morals for a while.

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elliotulysses

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## Daniel

> i think i'll go talk to it about morals for a while.


lmfao!!!!!!!!!!

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## Cap10Squirty

> lmfao!!!!!!!!!!


I'm serious! I pulled him/her out and talked to it about "right and wrong" hehe. I fed it a few lowly insects and told it to be thankful for what it has to eat each night, then tucked the frog away for the night. I'm sure it all went in one ear and out the other.

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## SCF

pretty sure that was a pygmy cham. Expensive "snack". All morals aside and i'm sure some of you wont agree with me, but have you have ever watched the discovery channel? This is nature. Why is the cham's life worth more than a cricket or a roach etc? I feed my snakes mice, is that wrong of me?

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## SCF

> I fed it a few lowly insects


Just curious, but are the "lowly" insects worth less as a life because they are smaller or have a smaller brain, do not possess cognitive thought, don't look "cute", etc...

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## Daniel

> pretty sure that was a pygmy cham.


Nope, it was a young veiled  :Smile:

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## SCF

Aww gotcha, I might get a pygmy this weekend. I just wonder how invertebrates/vertebrates , etc have different values on their life.

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## SCF

I like your new avatar btw poison, also did you know pluto is not considered a planet anymore...lol

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## Daniel

> Aww gotcha, I might get a pygmy this weekend. I just wonder how invertebrates/vertebrates , etc have different values on their life.


Cool, what species? Most that you find on the market are WC unfortunately. People seem to have the most success with R. brevicaudatus. I've been doing tons of research on them in the past few years but for some reason I never made the buy lol.

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## Daniel

> I like your new avatar btw poison, also did you know pluto is not considered a planet anymore...lol


Thank you very much  :Smile: 

And yes I heard what you people on earth are saying about my planet. YOU GUYS ARE WRONG!

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## Jack

There is actually already a thread on this forum about that video.

http://www.frogforum.net/african-bul...chameleon.html

It's quite sad really, still though I had forgotten about that video so thanks for posting it again.

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## Daniel

> There is actually already a thread on this forum about that video.
> 
> www.frogforum.net/african-bullfrogs/5554-guy-feeds-his-pixie-chameleon.html
> 
> It's quite sad really, still though I had forgotten about that video so thanks for posting it again.


I agree with that "poison beauties" guy. The guy did go about it wrong and he himself may be a sick person just for trying to get a reaction from people. But I don't see anything wrong about feeding chams or any other common species as feeders. And this is coming from someone who has owned chams (have a young one now) and other reptiles in the past.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

There are many feeders available rather than offering a Chameleon to your frog, BUT given the chance most highly predacious species of frog would willingly accept it as food. Not a common food source, but a whole meal in one nonetheless.

I myself would not use them as a feeded, but it adds much needed variety.

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## Jack

I read the comments, he was sick of it because it didn't grow. Here is a quote from one of his comments:
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"@CBGReptilez because the previous owner didn't give it correct uvb so it never grew. the chameleon in this video was well over 6 months old, and veiled chameleons should be adults in that time. so i got sick of it not growing and having a ****ty life so i decided to put it down"
*
Poison, I agree with you but the guy you agree with says it's the natural food chain, it isn't the natural food chain because I bet *YEMEN* chameleons don't come across *AFRICAN* bullfrogs in the wild very often.  :Smile: 

I also have a cham.

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## Bruce

> Thank you very much 
> 
> And yes I heard what you people on earth are saying about my planet. YOU GUYS ARE WRONG!


I believe it is now considered a large kuiper belt object  :Wink:

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## Robbie

I remember seeing this. I think the guy claimed he got the chameleon when it was sickly and he alleges he did this out of compassion because of its unhealthiness. Probably BS.

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## Cap10Squirty

> pretty sure that was a pygmy cham. Expensive "snack". All morals aside and i'm sure some of you wont agree with me, but have you have ever watched the discovery channel? This is nature. Why is the cham's life worth more than a cricket or a roach etc? I feed my snakes mice, is that wrong of me?


I don't have to watch TV to understand nature after spending the majority of my life living and traveling throughout the South Pacific. I have, however, watched the discovery channel. It usually catches my attention when nothing else is on  :Wink:  My younger brother's feed their snakes African soft furs. I feed my monitor baby rabbits and rats (which are fairly cute) and about a dozen different invertebrates. I wouldn't hesitate offering it anoles and even an occasional garden variety snake that gets too close to my house.




> Just curious, but are the "lowly" insects worth less as a life because they are smaller or have a smaller brain, do not possess cognitive thought, don't look "cute", etc...


Lowly as in humble, common, and not exotic compared to what is traditionally an expensive and exotic animal (a chameleon).

Anyway, I did not realize the story behind this guy's video....still, he's pretty bold for putting it out there knowing that its unusual especially when you are in control of "Nature" as far as what you offer to an animal in captivity.

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## SweetApples

Some thoughts on this subject. Often I've pondered the issue of which animals are acceptable to raise for food. If you are going to keep carnivores, then some kind of choice needs to made concerning what kind of animal you'll be raising and killing( or paying someone else to raise and kill for you). 

If you can buy a piglet to feed to your snake, why can't you buy a kitten or puppy to feed to your snake?. Why is feeding a cat to a snake animal cruelty?. Who decided that a cat was a companion animal with a special status and a pig was not. 
Millions of surplus dogs and cats are already being euthanized. 

This person's attitude does bother me. I don't like the idea that a person has a pet reptile and when they are tired of taking care of their pet, they feed their pet to another pet. However one feels about the morality of which animals are acceptable to feed to another animal, this is a troubling way to view an animal you've kept as a pet. It seems they hold the viewpoint that when they no longer want a certain pet, it's acceptable to kill them.  I wonder if they at least tried to find the unwanted chameleon a new home, probably not. 

I don't like the idea of giving a pet improper care and then killing them because of that improper care. Seems like a convenient way out of giving your pets proper care. If the pet gets sick due to improper care, you won't correct the care or attempt to treat them, you'll kill the pet.

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## Cap10Squirty

SweetApples, I think you used the words I have been trying to find in this matter. What happens when that frog gets sick and dies of improper care, such as being left to a cesspool of a water dish (it could have just been real dirty from the substrate but you never know). Would it be ok to instead of trying to find a reasonable solution, let his pet dog chew on the frog until it dies?

Obviously I'm extrapolating a little bit here, but I agree it seems like this individual didn't exhaust his options which made it all the more easier to pick it up by tweezers and allow the frog to make a meal out of it.

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## Eli

> Aww gotcha, I might get a pygmy this weekend. I just wonder how invertebrates/vertebrates , etc have different values on their life.


I don't think so.  Lives are lives and sometimes animals kill each other.  I just watched the video and am a little more concerned about the water/habitat the user had.  That water looked like mud or coffee or something!  I also think it's foolish to buy a pet just for a snack.
But assuming they did breed chams for sale and this one had issues, it should theoretically be nutritious. 

I just don't like people who do things to seem "shocking" or "cool."  Especially when it's an already charged topic.

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## Eli

> Some thoughts on this subject. Often I've pondered the issue of which animals are acceptable to raise for food. If you are going to keep carnivores, then some kind of choice needs to made concerning what kind of animal you'll be raising and killing( or paying someone else to raise and kill for you). 
> 
> If you can buy a piglet to feed to your snake, why can't you buy a kitten or puppy to feed to your snake?. Why is feeding a cat to a snake animal cruelty?. Who decided that a cat was a companion animal with a special status and a pig was not. 
> Millions of surplus dogs and cats are already being euthanized. 
> 
> This person's attitude does bother me. I don't like the idea that a person has a pet reptile and when they are tired of taking care of their pet, they feed their pet to another pet. However one feels about the morality of which animals are acceptable to feed to another animal, this is a troubling way to view an animal you've kept as a pet. It seems they hold the viewpoint that when they no longer want a certain pet, it's acceptable to kill them.  I wonder if they at least tried to find the unwanted chameleon a new home, probably not. 
> 
> I don't like the idea of giving a pet improper care and then killing them because of that improper care. Seems like a convenient way out of giving your pets proper care. If the pet gets sick due to improper care, you won't correct the care or attempt to treat them, you'll kill the pet.


I think pigs should be placed higher up than that!  Usually when people have a preference of a sort of animal, but think it's fine killing another, is just recognizing neurological differences.  For example, a pig's brain is MUCH more developed than a hamster.  Just as a dog is more intelligent than a rabbit.

However, I think we are all children of the earth, and should mind these matters with respect for both animals.

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## Daniel

You guys do realize it is illegal to kill dogs and cats right (unless of course you are a shelter and a license)? So I don't see argument is valid, no offence. Pigs on the other hand are 100% legal to kill for food.

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## Cap10Squirty

> I don't think so.  Lives are lives and sometimes animals kill each other.  I just watched the video and am a little more concerned about the water/habitat the user had.  That water looked like mud or coffee or something!  I also think it's foolish to buy a pet just for a snack.
> But assuming they did breed chams for sale and this one had issues, it should theoretically be nutritious. 
> 
> I just don't like people who do things to seem "shocking" or "cool."  Especially when it's an already charged topic.


It did look like coffee! I agree with your last point. What got to me was this guy more than likely posted the video to get attention. 




> You guys do realize it is illegal to kill dogs and cats right (unless of course you are a shelter and a license)? So I don't see argument is valid, no offence. Pigs on the other hand are 100% legal to kill for food.


Maybe where you live Daniel, where I am from a neighbor made an offer (a serious offer) on our dog (family pet) so he could use it for a wedding ceremony that weekend. I doubt that a dog would even stand a chance on Pluto  :Wink: 

I wouldn't make an argument if it were not valid in my case, where it is 100% legal to kill any animal except the Samoan flying fox.

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## Daniel

100 bucks says Krypto and Wonder Dog would beat the dogs on earth up  :Stick Out Tongue:

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LeClownBlanc

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## Cap10Squirty

I don't have $100 to bet now that I've spent it on silkworms and roaches. >.<

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## Cody

What what does in that video I do not agree with, live feedings I'm fine with but that wasn't "natural" for reasons already stated. 

This is a purely personal point though, my main problem is that it was recorded and his reasoning for doing it. If someone bred something similar as a food source and did it in private I really don't think I'd care much, I wouldn't breed Chameleons for that purpose but as long as the person is breeding them with a certain intent, I'm fine with it. But killing something off because your couldn't care for it properly is just wrong, and then you go and record it? No. That's just disturbing to me.

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LeClownBlanc

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## Le clown blanc

> What what does in that video I do not agree with, live feedings I'm fine with but that wasn't "natural" for reasons already stated. 
> 
> This is a purely personal point though, my main problem is that it was recorded and his reasoning for doing it. If someone bred something similar as a food source and did it in private I really don't think I'd care much, I wouldn't breed Chameleons for that purpose but as long as the person is breeding them with a certain intent, I'm fine with it. But killing something off because your couldn't care for it properly is just wrong, and then you go and record it? No. That's just disturbing to me.


And a clear sign that you are not ready to be an owner.
What is going to happen when his frog becomes ill or they can't take care of it, which has probably already begun.  As said, look at that water quality in the dish, it looks like coffee.
Also there is a difference in showing how to do a live feeding with an appropriate animal for the animal you're feeding.  I feel that is okay.  But just don't something to get a rise out of people, AGAIN shows you probably shouldn't have a pet OR aren't mentally sound (or even both!).

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## SCF

Great points everyone!

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