# General Topics > General Discussion & News >  Can you keep an adult  american bullfrog with a adult tiger salamander?

## CaptainS

I want to know if it would work out ok to mix a large american bullfrog with a large tiger salamander in a 40-50 gallon aquarium? I just want to let everyone know this isn't my first time mixing different amphibians together right now I have a pretty large tank with a leopard frog sex unknown, a female yellow spotted asian climbing toad, a male blue dumpy tree frog, and two fire salamanders all together. I also have another terrarium with a baby tomato frog and a young blue dumpy tree frog together. I would like to know how it would work out if I attempted mixing the bullfrog with the tiger salamander together what do you guys think would happen and how would it work out and should I attempt it or is it to risky and not worth it?

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## Jason

Never mix amphibians together, unless you truly don't care about your animals well being. 

You must be trolling or extremely ignorant.

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Angelfish, Cliygh and Mia 2, sde, ThoseNewtsTho

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## Xavier

No, and the tank you described is _MUCH_ too small for the bullfrog. These guys need at the very least 100 gallons, or around that. They need massive amounts of filtration, and Tiger salamanders don't do very well with enclosures with large amounts of water, they die off very quickly for some odd reason. Also, I strongly suggest that you separate your other animals, unless you want your animals to be the next accounts on this: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/M...isasters.shtml

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Angelfish, jasonm96, monster

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## Xavier

> I want to know if it would work out ok to mix a large american bullfrog with a large tiger salamander in a 40-50 gallon aquarium? I just want to let everyone know this isn't my first time mixing different amphibians together right now I have a pretty large tank with a leopard frog sex unknown, a female yellow spotted asian climbing toad, a male blue dumpy tree frog, and two fire salamanders all together. I also have another terrarium with a baby tomato frog and a young blue dumpy tree frog together. I would like to know how it would work out if I attempted mixing the bullfrog with the tiger salamander together what do you guys think would happen and how would it work out and should I attempt it or is it to risky and not worth it?


Also, Fire salamanders are toxic, they could be poisoning your other pets

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## Cory

Here is another example of mixing different species together, and this just happened this summer to a member of the forum. I know its not frog and frog or frog and salamander but just imagine if that leopard frog was able to swallow that huge pleco what do you think is going to happen with the bullfrog and salamander? And that pleco was 7 inches long. I would highly recommend to not do it. And this members frog passed away a couple days later with the pleco still in there.

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Angelfish, Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Krispy

> Here is another example of mixing different species together, and this just happened this summer to a member of the forum. I know its not frog and frog or frog and salamander but just imagine if that leopard frog was able to swallow that huge pleco what do you think is going to happen with the bullfrog and salamander? And that pleco was 7 inches long. I would highly recommend to not do it. And this members frog passed away a couple days later with the pleco still in there.



I remember this. I had just explained my royal pain anole/grass lizard vivarium. Then it ate the fish. Poor guy. 

Natural parasites, contact with the other's feces, eating order, pecking order, there are so many aspect to talk about for what could go wrong. 

Keeping a mixed species tank is a daunting task even for the most experienced keepers, and rarely ends well.

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Angelfish, Cliygh and Mia 2, jasonm96, Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> Never mix amphibians together, unless you truly don't care about your animals well being. 
> 
> You must be trolling or extremely ignorant.


It's not ignorant to mix species. This case yes but in some cases that I have brought up before, if you know what your doin, you have the time and the money for a big enclosure and vet visits your half way ready. Next is taking months to years studying and keeping each animal and if they live in the same place like Leopard Frogs and American Toads. They are able to handle things similar but care wise, a leopard frog likes water to dive in and a toad burrows. That works with a big tank and knowing the animals behavior when stressed or starved or whatever. It can be done and the animals can live a full life. Not this example of course but it's not always an abomination. I spent years planning what I had. I spent 9 months studying the animals finding what I could on them kept together. I talked to biologists and experts on it before I executed. I didn't care how much it costs for a vet visit, I got above and beyond for the animals so they had an enclosure big enough for territory and niches for both. I'm not sticking up for him at all, I do want you to realize there are some people who love and will go above requirements to make an educated risk work out. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2, Krispy

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## Jason

It's just ignorant to think a 50 gallon glass tank can offer the space for two species to coexist. If you are an expert and have space for a massive (probably custom) tank like the ones at the zoos, that is planted well, then I can't really argue with that.

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Angelfish, Cliygh and Mia 2, LilyPad, sde

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## Xavier

> It's just ignorant to think a 50 gallon glass tank can offer the space for two species to coexist. If you are an expert and have space for a massive (probably custom) tank like the ones at the zoos, that is planted well, then I can't really argue with that.


Not necessarily: http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Can-...a-No-You-Cant/

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jasonm96

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## Jason

> Not necessarily: http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Can-...a-No-You-Cant/


lol, oh dear

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

And even then, I'm not entirely against it. You need a massive tank (150 gallons or more) and you need two species that occupy different Niches, a good example are small North American tree frogs (Squirrel tree-frog, Pine-woods, so on) and the North American cricket frogs, they will not typically go near each other, and if/when they do, they won't eat each-other. But it takes a lot of work, and it is better to not mix species ever

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jasonm96

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## Xavier

And plus, there are no guaranties that they won't stress each other to death either...

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jasonm96, LilyPad

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## Amy

You need large amounts of experience with each individual animal and large amounts of space in order to do any type of mixed species vivarium.  Both things that an overwhelming majority of people who attempt a mixed species habitat do not have.

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Cliygh and Mia 2, Krispy, Larry Wardog

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## AAron

I think that what everyone has said is true but not involving the general categorization that things never workout and every animal suffers until it dies. That's something I disagree with. The climate size and humidity/temp requirements can get you so far. It's like I posted earlier, it's up to the keeper, if they are not greedy, truly want the best and are making a serious attempt, assuming they have had the animal and know about it and it's 2 animals that are found in similar conditions, that keeper will be successful. If I would have joined this forum and posted my crazy idea of putting a woods in my hallway A 4 Foot long woods with Frogs and Toads, I would have been told I was crazy and it would never work. Mainly because people just want to look out for the animals. That's who suffers the most. The reason why I keep telling you guys not to categorize everyone together. Even though this idea was rediculous, there are some that may actually work. And for the record, if the pet store sold 150 gallon tanks I'd have it. But the animals I have with well planted and well monitored conditions will be cozy in a 75 Gallon. Toads don't need 150 gallons to move around. I'd love to see it, one day I will lol I'm just saying that I believe from my experience of 6months, my animals are not stressed, and the crazy idea has made them, along with everyone that sees it happy. Don't judge a book by it's cover


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## Jason

> Toads don't need 150 gallons to move around


Toads can travel miles each day, the more spare you can offer them, the better. The thing is when mixing is you're going to need a lot larger tank compared to if you were just keeping the one species at the same number of animals, so they can distance each other like they can in the wild. 

What really annoyed me lately is someone mixed two different species together and one of the frogs died, they claimed that it couldn't possibly be down to mixing, as they're of course some sort of expert that diagnosed the cause of death themselves LOL

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Cliygh and Mia 2, LilyPad

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## Xavier

> I think that what everyone has said is true but not involving the general categorization that things never workout and every animal suffers until it dies. That's something I disagree with. The climate size and humidity/temp requirements can get you so far. It's like I posted earlier, it's up to the keeper, if they are not greedy, truly want the best and are making a serious attempt, assuming they have had the animal and know about it and it's 2 animals that are found in similar conditions, that keeper will be successful. If I would have joined this forum and posted my crazy idea of putting a woods in my hallway A 4 Foot long woods with Frogs and Toads, I would have been told I was crazy and it would never work. Mainly because people just want to look out for the animals. That's who suffers the most. The reason why I keep telling you guys not to categorize everyone together. Even though this idea was rediculous, there are some that may actually work. And for the record, if the pet store sold 150 gallon tanks I'd have it. But the animals I have with well planted and well monitored conditions will be cozy in a 75 Gallon. Toads don't need 150 gallons to move around. I'd love to see it, one day I will lol I'm just saying that I believe from my experience of 6months, my animals are not stressed, and the crazy idea has made them, along with everyone that sees it happy. Don't judge a book by it's cover
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, but this specific mix is horrible. Tiger salamanders die off when there are large amounts of water, and bullfrogs need a large amount of water. Plus, both of these guys eat anything they can. One would kill the other

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> Toads can travel miles each day, the more spare you can offer them, the better. The thing is when mixing is you're going to need a lot larger tank compared to if you were just keeping the one species at the same number of animals, so they can distance each other like they can in the wild. 
> 
> What really annoyed me lately is someone mixed two different species together and one of the frogs died, they claimed that it couldn't possibly be down to mixing, as they're of course some sort of expert that diagnosed the cause of death themselves LOL


Do you know of anybody that has 1 or 2 toads in a 150 Gallon tank? I'm not supporting this guy wanting to mix these animals, and I really checked tank sizes for this, I got the biggest tank in stores near me. If something were to happen id come out and say something died. But my point is the tank I have is enough space. If you look at tank requirements 10 gallons for a toad and 5 for every other you add. 29 for a pair of leopard frogs. That's 44 gallons at the least. So 31 gallons of extra space for 1 frog and 2 toads is fair I believe. 


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## Jason

> Do you know of anybody that has 1 or 2 toads in a 150 Gallon tank? I'm not supporting this guy wanting to mix these animals, and I really checked tank sizes for this, I got the biggest tank in stores near me. If something were to happen id come out and say something died. But my point is the tank I have is enough space. If you look at tank requirements 10 gallons for a toad and 5 for every other you add. 29 for a pair of leopard frogs. That's 44 gallons at the least. So 31 gallons of extra space for 1 frog and 2 toads is fair I believe. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What I was trying to say is that even though people say they don't need it, really you should provide that largest you can within reason but more importantly that if you were to mix you'd need to consider providing a larger tank than you would for one species at the same number so that they won't constantly overlap - may have came out wrong, sorry. But this wasn't directed to your set up.

I never listen to the guidelines people say eg 10 gallons for a Horned frog? I don't think so. I keep a juvenile in a 15 gallon and he'll be getting a bigger tank at some point.

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

I was concerned people were coming at my setup


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## Jason

> I was concerned people were coming at my setup
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I haven't seen your set up so I can't pass judgement but it is a large tank, bigger than the normal ones supplied at pet stores being a in 40-50 gallon range, which OP was considering using. Mixing can be done but I would never risk it but I will respect those who at least give the largest of space and plant the thing.

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

http://www.frogforum.net/showthread.php?t=34251


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jasonm96

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