# General Topics > Food, Feeders, Live, Frozen, Culturing, etc >  How long does springtail usually take to produce

## gundam009283

just ordered some tropical springtail from joshs last week to seed my tank. I am not sure if it's just me or all their culture only contains a little amount. i add water in and jog it a little so they all flow to the surface, only count to about 30 something.(the box was partly wet when I received it even the tape on the culture were still tie, not really sure if it's leaking or just the post office spill some water on there.)

for that amount I am wondering how long do they usually take to establish in a 20L, or do i have to try to buy another one from some other place.

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## Michael

I also ordered my springtails from Josh.  They arrived in one of those Tupperware like containers.  From your description that does seem a lot less then what  mine contained.  Now I have five containers all made from the original.  I could of made many more but this services my needs for now.  I would drop Josh a email asking about the amount of springtails that should be in the container.

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## gundam009283

yea i just did...cuz it's just not a reasonable amount for that price. should have ask around to see if anyone local around LA has it.

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## gundam009283

gerr...just got their reply
they said that it's the correct amount...never gonna buy spring tail from them again...

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## Michael

Remember this really is a starter culture.  Feed it with some rice or fish food and before you know it the container will be filled with them.  Springtails are very prolific!

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## gundam009283

yea just didnt expect that little amount lol. good thing i still dont have my frogs yet.

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## BG

:Smile: That is funny. I was going to by some from the last show. My Friend the MD said don't waste your money . Go in the back yard and get some. My backyard is free of chemicals,pestos etc. I left a shirt a long time in the back yard. Little did you know the shirt was infested with spring tails and isupods.lol I collected 10X the amount you got for free. But its ok. They grow fast with a little rice. Put them in a tray with a cover about 11x9x4. Add charcoal(the type for aquariums)and declor water just the same level as the charcoal. Add some rice and in a week you will have thousands. At list you know where they came from. All you need is a little bit to start.This is a recipe from my good friend Donlisk the great.

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## gundam009283

yea it's a wast of money 1 culture(30something springtail) + shipping is like $23
gonna go dig in my yard for some isopots tomorrow...hopefully they wont be to big. i am thinking about starting a culture for my darts that's gonna move in latter on.

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## John Clare

I will give you some info on this.  I seeded a pumilio 20 gallon high terrarium (80 liters) and added frogs the same night, 4 weeks ago.  I didn't go crazy with the number of springtails I added.  I can now see a few springtails _in_ the substrate from the outside of the terrarium.  This is the terrarium on FrogTV channel 1.  I would expect the numbers go swell within the next month.  Some times it can take 3 or 4 months to have a large population established, and remember the frogs will eat them continuously, which is partly why some people set up terrariums months before adding the frogs.  The springtails I use are sold as "temperate" springtails, but I use them in all of my dart frog terrariums.

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## gundam009283

lol thx john that's actually what i am doing right now. i actually only use half of that culture to seed my tank(no frogs yet), and create another bigger culture with the rest. prob not going to put any frog in until the Pasadena show in Nov or even wait tile next year if i actually decide to go back to Taiwan. Hopefully they will be establish a good amount by that time.

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## Herpetologicalgirl

> lol thx john that's actually what i am doing right now. i actually only use half of that culture to seed my tank(no frogs yet), and create another bigger culture with the rest. prob not going to put any frog in until the Pasadena show in Nov or even wait tile next year if i actually decide to go back to Taiwan. Hopefully they will be establish a good amount by that time.


Man.. I'm sorry that was a horrible experience for you. Josh is a great guy and in incredible success story for people who want to consider making a career out of an amazing hobby, HOWEVER this is not the first time I've heard stories about him. He's at all my local shows, and we have a mutual friend. IMO he's great for dry goods, but his frogs are tiny and his cultures are dismal. When I purchased springtails from him it was the same for me as well. I purchased 2 cultures from him just so I could seed my tanks and start my own. 

Knowing how frustrating THAT was, I promised myself that if I were to ever sell my cultures I'd do better. So I did.  :Big Grin:  

If you or ANYONE ELSE ever wants more springtails with THOUSANDS of bugs in them, please just ask. Josh has frustrated a lot of us LOL I would be more than happy to send you an 8oz cup for free if you wanted one. You'd just have to worry about shipping.

EDIT: To answer your question, I'd say 10-14 days. If you haven't seen exponential growth in your culture by that time, something is wrong. ALSO! DO NOT go into your back yard and get your own. I tried that with springtails and the woodlice and I've noticed that unless you're from the deep south these guys really don't do well. I found out the hard way they're called "Temperate" for a reason =/ This is especially true for the woodlice, who's temperate cousins get significantly larger if they manage to survive...

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## gundam009283

josh's dry goods are actually at really cheap price. with the free shipping over $50, i dont see any online store can beat that so far. but i kept reading about that their animal are too small, and of course each tiny springtail cost more than $1... :Mad: 
i guess it's because i gave them too much space, i used only that tiny culture for a 20L tank and a 32qt new culture. i do see one or two running around if i flip through the top substrate, but yea...one or two lol

i really would like to try out some of yours. how much would the shipping be if shipping to west covina, CA. if that one works I'll be get some more when I decide to get some darts for the 20L(which is set up already, but no frogs)

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## Don

I ordered two starter cultures from Joshs Frogs and after moving them into a larger container and a few small pieces of white rice, ended up with tons of them in no time. 

Once the culture is going strong you should never run out since they just keep reproducing.

My biggest issues with springtails was trying to get them into the tank and not flood the tank.  Today I figured that out.  I added some water and tilted the container to let them float to the surface, then took the container to the viv and tilted it to get the water near the edge.  The springtails started jumping out on their own and when I blew across the top of the charcoal it looked like a snow globe of springtails in the air.

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## bshmerlie

Believe it or not it doesn't take a whole lot of springs to establish a tank.  If you don't have frogs in there they multiple pretty quickly. If you feel like driving out to Moreno Valley (about 30 min) I could give you some as well.  Just PM me.  Believe it or not those 30 springs you have now will be more than enough to seed your tank.  Hold back a few and start another culture.  Feed it with some rice grains or sprinkle in some fish flake and they will make another culture for you.  If you have lots of hungry frogs they will sometimes eat down your seeded tank too much.  Its hard for me to keep my Cobalt tank seeded because all they do is eat them all day long.  But once your culture is going well you can just pour in a little each week.  With most frogs this is not really a problem unless the tank is really small or you have a lot of frogs in the tank.  Once your tank is well seeded you can go on vacation leave a little piece of banana in there and your springs and misc fruit flies and isopods will seek it out and that food source will help to sustain your frogs.

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## BG

Don i love your tip and fill method. lol


> I ordered two starter cultures from Joshs Frogs and after moving them into a larger container and a few small pieces of white rice, ended up with tons of them in no time. 
> 
> Once the culture is going strong you should never run out since they just keep reproducing.
> 
> My biggest issues with springtails was trying to get them into the tank and not flood the tank.  Today I figured that out.  I added some water and tilted the container to let them float to the surface, then took the container to the viv and tilted it to get the water near the edge.  The springtails started jumping out on their own and when I blew across the top of the charcoal it looked like a snow globe of springtails in the air.

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## Herpetologicalgirl

> i really would like to try out some of yours. how much would the shipping be if shipping to west covina, CA. if that one works I'll be get some more when I decide to get some darts for the 20L(which is set up already, but no frogs)


PM me and we'll get the ball rolling  :Smile:  OR you are more than welcome to email me directly: herpetologicalgirl@gmail.com

If anyone else is interested in FREE 8oz containers of Tropical Springtails, PM me. I have 8 left including Gundam.

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## bshmerlie

That's a very nice offer Abby.

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## Sublime

Agreed.  That's very generous of you Abby.   :Wink:

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## erini

Ditto to everyone else Abby! I also ordered my springtails from Josh's Frogs, 2 of them, but each culture only had about 20 springtails each. I have yet to see them bloom in my tank, although I put them in 2 weeks before I put in my frogs.

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## Herpetologicalgirl

> Ditto to everyone else Abby! I also ordered my springtails from Josh's Frogs, 2 of them, but each culture only had about 20 springtails each. I have yet to see them bloom in my tank, although I put them in 2 weeks before I put in my frogs.


Yea I had the same issue when I purchased from him. I got 2 cultures, and I had a HELL of a time trying to get anything accomplished. =/ That was the driving force behind creating my cultures. Sure, a lot of people bought them from Josh at the Tinley show _anyways_ because I was with a non-profit table in the far corner of the lobby (le sigh), but I have NO problem showing people like him not to forget where they started...

If he needs to take it slow for a while and focus on quality over mass quantity, then so be it. Even if I DON'T decide to make this my life, I would still rather be known for providing people with a quality, healthy animal. Or getting their money's worth from something as simple as a Springtail culture... =/

EDIT: Come to think of it, it was the same way when I bought Dwarf Tropical Woodlice from Vivarium Concepts (I dunno if she's still around tho...). I paid $22 PLUS shipping for a 16oz container of MAYBE 20 bugs. /growl. It took me a YEAR to get a master culture going big enough that I can feed from, seed from, and make new cultures with. Good news is that the cultures I make have hundreds of bugs in them. Suck it, Vivarium Concepts! /shakes fist.

GRRRR still irks me. **ahem**

Anywho, my offer still stands for whoever wants free 8oz'ers  :Smile:  EDIT: I have 7 left.

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## Sublime

Haha your posts are always comical, yet informative at the same time with all the side related comments and gestures.  That sucks that it took over a year to get a colony sustained to use.  How long is the average time of reproducing starting with a fairly large size starter colony for Woodlice in the right conditions?

I'm a firm believer in quality over quantity as well; my goal is to just have a few frogs at most - maybe a little more.  Give them enough attention and husbandry they require to live healthy lives.  My mentality might change in the upcoming years in this hobby and I just might require having 50 frogs to get my fix, lol.

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## Herpetologicalgirl

> That sucks that it took over a year to get a colony sustained to use.  How long is the average time of reproducing starting with a fairly large size starter colony for Woodlice in the right conditions?


I would say it depends on the size and maturity of your starting cultures. At this point in the game I've been able to start brand new 64oz cultures and have them be fully "matured" in about 3 weeks. Here's the trick: Keep them in your reptile room, in the dark. The warmth and darkness makes them breed like rabbits! I've been able to turn MY average maturity time from about 2 months down to 3 weeks.  :Wink: 

I just checked in on my master culture yesterday and it's time for me to thin it out again because I have woodlice coming UP THE SIDES of my container hahaha. I think it's safe to say that I have MILLIONS of them in there. I've never seen anything like it haha. Good news: My darts will be little fatties for a little while, at least until I can get some of these cultures moving LOL. Do frogs go into food comas? @.@

And thank you, Mark. I'm a very colorful person, and it's even better in person (I've been told). I'm glad you enjoy my manner of speaking  :Big Grin: 

EDIT: I have 3 weddings to go to this weekend so I apologize in advance if I don't get back to anyone else until Sunday evening (after I've successfully pulled all of my hair out) who wanted those free 8oz springtail cultures. I'll try to respond sometime in between all this madness, I promise!! <3

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## bshmerlie

Mark, the magic number is 50 frogs???   Oh no....I already hit that number.   :Smile:  But now that most of my babies are now grown up I should be able to cut that number in half as I just keep pairs.  Unless we're counting tadpoles and froglets.   :Frown:

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## Sublime

@Abby Oh I see, that's helpful advice.  2 months to 3 weeks, wow that's a drastic change in time.  Yes I'm sure they will go into a food coma, lol.  Sad thing is, the people you see on YouTube feeding their frogs (Primarily pixies and pacmans) literally do go into a food coma.

No problem.

@Cheri Wow that's a ton of work Cheri!  That's good that you'll be able to sell some off though; are you going to be able to let your babies go?  Now you're just left with your main priorities and have extra time to give them more attention.

I don't count them until they go through full metamorphosis; If we did that would be too much to count, lol.

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