# Frogs & Toads > Fire Belly Toads (Bombina) >  FBT missing eye, swiming in circles/acting strange

## NotSure

Just picked up a few FBTs yesterday at the pet store. I didnt realize til I got home that the smaller one is missing an eye. I also noticed he cant swim quite right. He does circles and summersults in the water. He also tilts his head upright and to the side a little, with his back arched weird. And sometimes he just sits in the water upside down. 


Anybody got any ideas? is it just a balance thing caused by the missing eye? Brain damage maybe? I dont see how it could be MBD. I doubt he was at the pet store long enough to be deprived of calcium to the point that he got MBD.

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## NotSure

Nobody has any ideas? 

Im thinking he has MBD. Either that or he broke his back or something...

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## privet01

Sometimes the forum's a little slow responding.  I don't think those of us that are the most active are anything more than "enthusiasts".  There are a few members that show up every now and then that seem to be very educated in the physiology of herpes.  But sometimes it takes a while for them to notice and respond.

As for what to do immediately........ a veterinarian.  Or if money is an issue try searching google for a "wildlife rehabilitator" or perhaps a nearby veterinary school.

Otherwise, I'm still old school.... which sadly dictates that such conditions warrant destroying the animal mercifully.

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## NotSure

> Otherwise, I'm still old school.... which sadly dictates that such conditions warrant destroying the animal mercifully.


Bummer. So you think theres no way he'll recover? Money is deffinitely an issue. I was hoping i could just quarentine him and see if he improves. I was just reading that if it is MBD, it can still be treated. Im just not 100% sure how to treat it.

But yeah, I just dont know. He's eating like a champ. So he's not THAT far gone yet

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## privet01

If he eat's then that's a good sign.  MBD in frogs I've never dealt with.  But if there is any hope, it's going to be using a light that provides some UVB in the correct spectrum and dusting it's food with calcium and vitamin D.

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## NotSure

Should I dust the food with every feeding, or stick with a normal schedule?

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## privet01

here are a couple articles you might find helpful.

http://www.amphibianark.org/pdf/Husb...0nutrition.pdf


http://www.amphibianark.org/pdf/Husb...tamin%20D3.pdf

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## NotSure

Im using my xbox for internet, so im having a little trouble getting the links to work. I'll have to see if i can get to a real computer today. 

Thanks.

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## privet01

One of the things I took from the articles is that simply dusting the food isn't going to do any good all by itself.

As for whether you should dust every feeding or not....... I'd dust every feeding.  But I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination.  I'm just working on the idea that if you provide a mega-dose of something, then they should at least be absorbing a little bit and possibly a beneficial amount from that dose.

I don't know of any down sides to dusting every feeding.

But I would highly recommend you get a UVB emitting fluorescent bulb and try to ensure that the affected fbt as well as the others are able to get within the distance of the bulb the manufacturer shows the correct strength of UVB will be received.

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## NotSure

I was thinking the same thing. I just remember reading somewhere that dusting too much was bad for some reason. I cant remember why tho lol

But yeah, I make sure all my frogs get UVB. So im pretty covered there.

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## privet01

I'm thinking that MBD is not your fbt's issue.  Here is another ariticle that is specifically about MBD...........

http://www.anapsid.org/mbd.html

There is a link on lighting at the bottom of that page and I sort'a thought the part on fluorescent lights hit the mark and I generally agreed with most of the article.  Incandescents if daytime heating is needed _(which it's typically not needed for FBT's)_ and fluorescents for general lighting and providing UVB. 

The fad, (IMO), with many seems to be LED lighting, but LED's don't produce UVB.  The only LED fixtures I know of that claim UVB actually have a fluorescent or other bulb built into the fixture to provide the UVB.

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## Amy

I haven't heard of LED fixtures using any UVB.  It would definitely have to include other lighting with the LED in order to provide it.  I use LED's, not because they're a fad, but because they stay cooler than florescent lighting and I get amazing plant growth.  I do not want anything throwing off heat on the dart tanks.  LED lighting is also a great option for my red eyes, as I have albinos that cannot have UVB.  Not to mention, the lifespan of the lighting is excellent.  The one on my grey tree frog tank has been there for several years now.  However, for my tortoise, he has both a mercury vapor light for basking and a fluorescent tube uvb light to provide a broader area of uvb.  If you're using a coil UVB light, they have to go to a very concentrated area in order to benefit from it.  All uvb lighting should be replaced every 6 months to maintain its effectiveness and should not be placed over glass.

It sounds like MBD to me also but you cannot rule out potential infection either.  MBD can be treated so that it does not get worse, and you may see some improvement in symptoms, but any deformities cannot be reversed.  Honestly, I would probably return him.  If you do not want to though, I would keep him quarantined and if you do not see any improvement over a few days, I'd start looking at other sources of the illness.  Do you have a video of the frog's behavior?  That might be more telling.

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## NotSure

> It sounds like MBD to me also but you cannot rule out potential infection either.  MBD can be treated so that it does not get worse, and you may see some improvement in symptoms, but any deformities cannot be reversed.  Honestly, I would probably return him.  If you do not want to though, I would keep him quarantined and if you do not see any improvement over a few days, I'd start looking at other sources of the illness.  Do you have a video of the frog's behavior?  That might be more telling.


Im confused. What would an improvement look like? He's already eating. It looks to me like somethings up with his back. 

And nah, I dont have a phone to take videos. Hes fine outside of the water, sometimes he sits with his back arched and head tilted to the side. When he's in the water is when it's really noticable. He just does back flips in the water with his back arched weird, like a "U".

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## Amy

When you describe it like that, it sounds like it is possible that he is seizing.  By improvement, stuff like that *should* stop.  I have heard from people that the head tilt should stop also.  Deformities will not be reversed though.  I do not have first-hand experience with MBD though.  I only know about it from cases I've seen here on the forum.

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Like what has already been said, you need to find an exotic pet veterinarian. Here are links to exotic animal vets by state: http://sybilsden.com/reference/vets.htm http://petcha.com/pets/directory-of-...-the-letter-f/ http://petcha.com/pets/directory-of-...-the-letter-c/

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## ericbrookey

> I was thinking the same thing. I just remember reading somewhere that dusting too much was bad for some reason. I cant remember why tho lol
> 
> But yeah, I make sure all my frogs get UVB. So im pretty covered there.


They make a supplement specific for FBT that is intended on using every feeding. The one I use is called Firebelly Toad Dust by T-Rex. It contains calcium, vitamin D and other essential vitamins.

How red is his underbelly? That can be a sign of malnutrition if pale in color.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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