# General Topics > Member of the Month >  March MOTM - Lisa (irThumper)

## Amy

Congrat's Lisa!!  I'm excited to get to know you better!

_Week 1, tell us all about you! We know you obviously like amphibians, but we want to know about the rest of your life. Details about you, your life, hobbies, families, past times, favorite colors, poems you have written etc etc....just use this post to brag/boast/bore us how you please._

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irThumper, MatthewM1

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## Paul

Following along!!

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## Josh

Oooooh, this is so exciting!!!!  :Big Grin:

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## irThumper

EEP! Lol...  :Wink:  Hi all, and thank you so much! I'm very humbled and truly appreciate this.  :Tickled Pink:  :02.47 Tranquillity: 

Well, to start, I'm glad I have a week to post because, as a 24-7 caregiver of a senior parent, life can get a little (a "little"??) hectic!  This might be a little episodic, but here's a bit about me before I go to my hide for sleepy time, lol.  :Wink:  

About me, hmm... how to make this interesting and not put folks to sleep... Well let's start with some randomness. That's always fun!

Random Fact #1: My real true first name, given to me even before the one on the birth certificate, IS "Thumper". I was so active before birth that mom named me after the bunny from Bambi.  :Smile:   I wish I had a fraction of that energy nowadays!  :Big Grin: 

Random Fact #2:  I'm good at animal imitations; the first animal sound I ever made (according to my mother) was a cougar-like growl at 3-months-of age. I have been known to just break into an animal sound on sight or sound of the particular animal (i.e.: I caw at crows and howl at coyotes). Occasionally while working at the computer I will just start croaking-- my White's tree frog boys have taught me well!  :Big Grin: 

Random Fact #3: I have been known to come up with spur of the moment jokes... like this one: What do you call a party organized to criticize/razz someone about their hiney? A Rump Roast! *Insert groans here*.

Random Fact #4: I am a "Unicornologist".

Random Fact #5: *My* *Favorite Color*

Random Fact #6: If seafood married pizza I would eat their offspring

Random Fact #7: When I was a kid I thought jars of oysters in the fridge were actually full of dinosaur boogers...

Well, that's enough randomness for now. Bed is calling and tomorrow is laundry day-- I'd rather be frogging!  :Wink: 

Goodnight for now  :Smile:

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MatthewM1

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## Heather

Yay! Congrats!  :Smile:

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irThumper

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## Heather

Hehe!!! I got a good chuckle out of those  :Big Grin: .

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irThumper

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## Frogger00

Random fact #2 is awesome 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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irThumper

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## irThumper

> Hehe!!! I got a good chuckle out of those .


Good medicine!  :Wink:

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## irThumper

> Random fact #2 is awesome 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I might have to add some of those sound clips they mentioned in the things we could post... if I can figure that out, lol  :Wink:

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## Amy

Fun!!  My daughter would be very interested in meeting a fellow unicornologist.  Her art teacher once told her that unicorns didn't exist, so she couldn't do her animal project on unicorns.  She spent the next 4 months researching and offering her art teacher proof that unicorns do exist haha.

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irThumper

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## irThumper

I think I have time for a quick poem or two before heading off to do laundry... Ok, here goes:

*F* antastic
*R* esplendant
*O* rganic
*G* oing fast
*S* ave them!

A couple of frog Hiku... Classic (three lines of 5-7-5 syllables) and Non-typical/extended: 

Pond in Springtime 

The pond; frogs afloat
Hear them calling hopefully
Be-My-Bay-Be! CROAK!

Martha

Dumpy grumpy frog
Aussie blood and PacMan dreams
Hiding in her hut
Wants to be a ground dweller
Gobbling all the grubs

And a White's tree frog joke:

Ask Litoria caerulea how to cook Chinese food, he'll say
in a "WOK! WOK! WOK!"

 :Wink: 

More later!

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## Frogger00

> I think I have time for a quick poem or two before heading off to do laundry... Ok, here goes:
> 
> *F* antastic
> *R* esplendant
> *O* rganic
> *G* oing fast
> *S* ave them!
> 
> A couple of frog Hiku... Classic (three lines of 5-7-5 syllables) and Non-typical/extended: 
> ...


Nice poetry! I always liked the song "5 little speckled frogs, sat on a great big log, eating the most delicious flies. Yum yum! One jumped into the pool, where it was nice and cool, now there are 4 little speckled frogs" lol it goes something like that. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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irThumper

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## Heather

Love them!  :Smile:

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irThumper

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## irThumper

> Fun!!  My daughter would be very interested in meeting a fellow unicornologist.  Her art teacher once told her that unicorns didn't exist, so she couldn't do her animal project on unicorns.  She spent the next 4 months researching and offering her art teacher proof that unicorns do exist haha.


(Decided to do lunch before laundry, lol.)

Tell your Unicornologist daughter she- is- AWESOME!  :Big Grin:  and that her art teacher is... well, never mind  :Wink:  I would love to see her artwork!  :Smile:  

Here's a little Unicorn funny for her... Unicorns Do NOT Poop Rainbows- Nuff Said! by IrThumper on DeviantArt  :Wink:

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## irThumper

> Nice poetry! I always liked the song "5 little speckled frogs, sat on a great big log, eating the most delicious flies. Yum yum! One jumped into the pool, where it was nice and cool, now there are 4 little speckled frogs" lol it goes something like that. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thanks! ^_^  That's a great song!   :Smile:

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## irThumper

Well... I seemed to have picked up a case of the stomach flu...  :Upset:  but continuing on...

Hrm, well would continue on if photos would load (FF glitch still in effect??)  :EEK!:  Looks like a trip to Photobucket!

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## Lija

lol. Unicorns are awesome! And I love seafood pizza, especially true Italian one with thin crust!

 That's great to get to know you better!

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## irThumper

> lol. Unicorns are awesome! And I love seafood pizza, especially true Italian one with thin crust!
> 
>  That's great to get to know you better!


Thanks Lija!  :Smile:  I sure wish I could like my favorite pizza right now, but I don't think it would like me... meh.  :Sour:

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## irThumper

Holy moly, well they've sure changed Photobucket since I've been there last! Can't make heads or tails of it  :EEK!:  I have a dA acct so will just use that for my pics...

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## Lija

Hey, true Italian pizza is good for anyone  :Smile:  thin crust and lots of seafood and veggies on it with a little bit of Parmesan... Yammy! I gotta make one, Got hungry lol

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## irThumper

> Hey, true Italian pizza is good for anyone  thin crust and lots of seafood and veggies on it with a little bit of Parmesan... Yammy! I gotta make one, Got hungry lol


You're tempting me, lol! But alas...  :Wink:

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## irThumper

Ok, here we go with the next random bit about me-- I collect frogs! "Other" frogs  :Wink: 









(Will be nice when the photo glitch gets fixed! *Coff*)  :Wink: 

Edited post to link to pictures for you Lisa <Paul>

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rodsboys

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## Cris

We all know you collect frogs!  :Wink: 

But your collection of "other" frogs is great too!

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irThumper

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## Amy

It's amazing how easy it is too end up with a collection of frogs. .. both alive and statuesque.   

Hope you feel better soon. ..I am also battling a stomach bug,  much empathy from here lol.

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irThumper

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## irThumper

More on being a "Unicornologist":

Amy's (LilyPad) daughter and I both have Unicorns and art teachers in common...luckily mine was more understanding! My first major art project in junior high was "The Pictorial Natural History of Different Types/Breeds of Unicorns". I made up illustrations, with full descriptions, of several different unicorns (most from my own imagination). They included the typical "Classical Unicorn" (aka Forest Unicorn), Oriental Unicorn, Eurasian Scarlet Unicorn, Mountain Unicorn, Coastal Unicorn, Desert Unicorn, Pygmy Unicorn, Pyxie Unicorn (not related to the frog, just how I spelled it, lol), Unipeg, and the Karkadaan. I later based a high school creative writing project on this one.  :Smile:  I still have my original art project somewhere... just wish I knew where. (There's another random fact: I hoard pictures and papers AND I'm disorganized!)  :Wink: 

Pics of some of my OCs (Original Characters) who were spawned from my earlier school art & writing projects. Most of these showed up in an online RPG/Interactive Fiction site, "Wild Horse island", created by my best friend, Kris. (Sadly, the RPG faded away a few years ago).

OCs: ROTU's Unicorn and Karkadaan Stallions 1 by IrThumper on DeviantArt









edited to include the pictures for you Lisa <Paul>

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## irThumper

> It's amazing how easy it is too end up with a collection of frogs. .. both alive and statuesque.   
> 
> Hope you feel better soon. ..I am also battling a stomach bug,  much empathy from here lol.


Oog! I am not alone!  :EEK!:  Sorry you're going through it too.. I'm practically carrying Pepto around in a brown bag like an old sot! Ok, nm that... TMI!   :Frog Surprise:

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## Amy

Impressive!  I shared them with my daughter,  she was fascinated!

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irThumper

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## irThumper

> Impressive!  I shared them with my daughter,  she was fascinated!


 :Tickled Pink:  :Biggrin:

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## irThumper

This one Bill can appreciate  :Wink:  Another interest of mine!

African Violets and More by IrThumper on DeviantArt

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## Lija

Woooooowwwww! You are an artist my friend! But to impress bill you gotta have a collection of broms! Lol 
beautiful violets!

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irThumper

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## Paul

Very cool Lisa! I am loving it!

I edited a couple posts for you to get the pictures to show up. Cause I rock like that :P

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irThumper

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## irThumper

> Woooooowwwww! You are an artist my friend! But to impress bill you gotta have a collection of broms! Lol 
> beautiful violets!


He can start me off by sending me one...  :Wink:  I seem to remember he said his MOTM nominations come with a plant prize, or something like that, lol!  :Big Grin:

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## irThumper

> Very cool Lisa! I am loving it!
> 
> I edited a couple posts for you to get the pictures to show up. Cause I rock like that :P


Oh yes you doooooooooo! Thanks!  :Big Grin:  I hope you'll be sticking around for week 3... heh heh  :Wink:

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## Paul

> Oh yes you doooooooooo! Thanks!  I hope you'll be sticking around for week 3... heh heh



I will be sticking around. To get the pictures to show up like I did just click on the picture button. Click the from URL tab and paste the URL of the picture in there. Uncheck the box and done  :Smile:

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irThumper

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## irThumper

Gotcha!  :Smile:

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## irThumper

From frogs to dogs...! 

The Shetland Sheepdog is my favorite breed, and Tobi Jim was the best little buddy anyone could ever ever hope for! Miss my "fuzzy brother" and our family's other pups of years past <3  :Bloom: 

Sheltie Tobi Jim by IrThumper on DeviantArt

Here's a few Sheltie sketches  :Smile:

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## irThumper

When I was a kid I always wanted to be a cartoonist when I grew up; after high school I even took a class on how to create and publish comic strips. Sadly, a repetitive stress injury caused me to have carpal/tendinitis in both hands, so a career as a professional cartoonist was not to be. But I do my art when I can, and create crafts when I'm able... I've actually had a crafting "business" for years, but due to circumstances in being a caregiver, and not having any space or room in which to create pieces, it has largely been in name only (except for an item here or there on eBay). Here are some of my craft items from years past...

Craft Art by IrThumper on DeviantArt

This is the last item I made, actually, just over a year ago


Here's one my fellow Frog Forum Froggers can appreciate  :Smile:  It's called "Frog Pond" (naturally, lol)  :Wink: 
(Handpainted hardshelled gourd)


I've always been interested in Native Americana...reportedly have some NA blood (said likely to be Cherokee) through my mom's side of the family. 

Bear purchased from Goodwill, I made her outfit.


(Handpainted hardshelled gourd & pony necklace)


(Handmade and painted leather pouch)


(CM painted the pony in the middle and added the blue & natural colored hairpipe beads and arrowhead; dreamcatcher was purchased)


(CM painted the pony and added glass & hairpipe beads; pouch was purchased)


(CM painted the pony and added all the beadwork; pouch was purchased)

I got the ponies from the Safari Ltd "Toobs" collection.

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## irThumper

Quirky randomness...  :Wink: 


"Art Forest"


"Fleeing From Evil"


"When you need a hand, I'll be there."


I hate doing dishes, so... lol  :Wink:

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## Amy

I love your sense of humor, Lisa!  (I feel the same way about dishes)

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irThumper

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## irThumper

> I love your sense of humor, Lisa!  (I feel the same way about dishes)


Thanks!  :Wink:

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## elly

"WOKwokwok"

hee.

Edit: that was from the joke on page 1, somehow I skipped a page.
I can tell I'll have to look through all your photos of plants. And I liked the captioned setups you did.

Edit 2: Your odd tree looks like an Althea

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## bill

Finally got caught up on this. Everytime I sit down to read it, I get tied up. And not in that fun 50 shades way either lol

It's been interesting getting to know more about you Lisa  :Smile:  a few notes/observations. 

A) pizza is not really Italian, it's an Americanized item  :Smile: 

B) just slapping a traffic cone on a Clydesdale does not make unicorns exist.  :Wink: 

C) the violets are beautiful!

D) yes, I promised you plants, and you will get them when the weather gets better, and I may even toss in a few leaves from my mini violet collection  :Smile: 

Looking forward to you making Paul work his butt of correcting pics when the time comes!!


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## irThumper

> Finally got caught up on this. Everytime I sit down to read it, I get tied up. And not in that fun 50 shades way either lol
> 
> It's been interesting getting to know more about you Lisa  a few notes/observations. 
> 
> A) pizza is not really Italian, it's an Americanized item 
> 
> B) just slapping a traffic cone on a Clydesdale does not make unicorns exist. 
> 
> C) the violets are beautiful!
> ...


A.) Heh... my favorite type of pizza may be the "Americanized version", but pizza does indeed originate in Italy, 18th century Naples. Food Network fan & Foodie here  :Wink:  A Slice of History: Pizza Through the Ages â Hungry History â Food & Culinary History

B.) As far as Unicorns go, you remind me of Roy C. Booth, a FB writer friend of mine!  :Big Grin: 


C.) Thanks!  :Smile: 

D.) Yay!  :Big Grin: 

LOL, poor Paul... he helped me figure it out already though, so I think he's safe. Hehe.  :Wink:

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## bill

It's funny, I was just busting Lija's stones about the pozza thing. What I said to her, but forgot to write in my post was that pizza was actually invented by the Greeks. Some articles mention it, some don't. History is so cool!! 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Adoptedtwins

Congratulations on the MOTM!  I love reading your advice and posts in forums.  Your random facts were rather comical, which I enjoy.  Great idea to have a MOTM and a good way to get to know other amphibian lovers!

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irThumper

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## irThumper

> Congratulations on the MOTM!  I love reading your advice and posts in forums.  Your random facts were rather comical, which I enjoy.  Great idea to have a MOTM and a good way to get to know other amphibian lovers!


Thanks! ^_^ 

Yes, it is.  :Smile:

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## irThumper

> It's funny, I was just busting Lija's stones about the pozza thing. What I said to her, but forgot to write in my post was that pizza was actually invented by the Greeks. Some articles mention it, some don't. History is so cool!! 
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


LOL!  :Wink: 

Yes, it is... especially when it comes to pizza!  :Big Grin:

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## irThumper

Time for more favorites!

Edibles...


Novel & Movies (there are way too to list really, but these are my favs off the top of my head)...



Speaking of novels... I'm a Book-a-Holic (these listings haven't even been updated for a while, so it's not even close. I've added a number of frog books to my collection lately, too)
https://www.goodreads.com/review/lis...per?shelf=read

T.V. shows...

I don't really watch much T.V. (my mother commands the remote) but some notable mainstream shows include The Voice, Judge Judy, Chicago Fire, America's Got Talent, and occasionally Grimm. Food Network, HGTV, and Discovery Channel are also rotated regularly. 

Music...

I have a Pandora internet radio subscription; I listen to a wide variety of different music when I'm writing or working online: Pandora Internet Radio - Listen to Free Music You'll Love

Favorite places... (I've never had the opportunity to travel much, really, so these are just a few of my fav spots in Oregon. I really need to update my album, lol...)

Oregon Scenery by IrThumper on DeviantArt (click for album)


Oregon Coast by IrThumper on DeviantArt (click for album)


Crater Lake, Oregon by IrThumper on DeviantArt (click for album)


(To Be Continued...!)

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## Amy

It's too bad you don't live in the midwest, I think we'd get along very well!!

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irThumper

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## Lija

> It's funny, I was just busting Lija's stones about the pozza thing. What I said to her, but forgot to write in my post was that pizza was actually invented by the Greeks. Some articles mention it, some don't. History is so cool!! 
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


Dude we shall just all agree you suck and move on lol and you love broms!

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## Lija

Wow, that lake is beautiful!

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irThumper

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## irThumper

> It's too bad you don't live in the midwest, I think we'd get along very well!!


LOL! Thanks!  :Big Grin:  I'm laughing because my best friend, Kris, actually lives in the Midwest  :Wink:  She's a lot further South than you are though, Joplin, MO. Scares me to death that she's in the middle of Tornado Alley  :EEK!:  Probably one reason I have tornado dreams and the movie Twister scares the **** out of me!

On a funny note... I think I've already mentioned that I have a sort of quasi-dyslexia, developed after a concussion I sustained in a car wreck a few years back (if I didn't post that, or remember posting it, it's because I also have memory issues due to the same darn thing... oog.) Anyway, I digress... I was having a discussion once with Kris regarding the weather, horrible humidity, and the various pests they have in MO., and I had replied, "I'm sure glad we don't have to worry about chicks and tiggers here!" Kris came unglued laughing!  :Big Grin:  She knew I really meant "ticks and chiggers"... Transposing can be a maddening thing to deal with, but sometimes it's pretty humorous too, hehehe!  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## irThumper

> Wow, that lake is beautiful!


Crater Lake is gorgeous; I would recommend seeing it for anyone's bucket list!  :Smile:  Sometimes it can be hard to catch it on a good day, though. On the day we visited a local man said the last four times he'd been there the area was socked in with fog... it was my first visit so consider myself lucky!  :Smile:

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## irThumper

Another of my favorite things happens to be my cousin, Jay's, awesome photog skills. He's a wildlands firefighter and photography is his hobby... everyone thinks he should go professional!  :Smile:  Here are some of my fav pics of his.

















(Computer is acting up, so to be continued...!)

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## irThumper

Ok, here we go...!

He takes such wonderful pics of all the places I love or would love to visit  :Smile:  These pics show what makes living here so great!































I really must stop posting these gorgeous pics... but every time I come to another photo in his FB album (I have his permission to post these by the way, lol) I just can't stop myself!

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## irThumper

Sorry, not done yet! I'm addicted to these...lol  :Wink: 



This reminds everyone of Africa, but it was taken right here at home!  :Smile: 




















Well this is all for now-- my mouse hand fell asleep, lol... Next time I want to post some of the wildlife shots, including some pics he took of the native fauna while on a wildlands fire fighting tour of duty in FL. I know there's some pics of froggles in there someplace  :Wink:

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## Xavier

> T.V. shows...
> 
> I don't really watch much T.V. (my mother commands the remote) but some notable mainstream shows include The Voice, Judge Judy, Chicago Fire, America's Got Talent, and occasionally Grimm. Food Network, HGTV, and Discovery Channel are also rotated regularly. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What?! No Gravity Falls?!... :Frog Surprise:  :Big Grin:

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## bill

Beautiful pics! Your cousin has an amazing eye! Thank you so much for sharing them!

Btw, the voice is my one guilty pleasure reality show  :Wink: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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irThumper

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## Lija

Wow! Thank you so much for these pics! Absolutely stunning photography, and so much inspiration for tanks  :Smile:

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irThumper

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## irThumper

> What?! No Gravity Falls?!...


Nope... don't even know what that is  :Wink:  lol

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## irThumper

> Beautiful pics! Your cousin has an amazing eye! Thank you so much for sharing them!
> 
> Btw, the voice is my one guilty pleasure reality show 
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela



Thanks, Bill! You can see why I'm addicted to his photos, and to Oregon  :Wink:  I really hope someday we'll see his work go pro.  :Smile: 

Gotta  love The Voice-- mom swears Blake Shelton must be related to us, as he  looks almost exactly like an uncle of hers on her dad's side. Blake's  such a smart alec (albeit a talented smart alec, lol) that I can believe  it!  :Big Grin:

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## irThumper

> Wow! Thank you so much for these pics! Absolutely stunning photography, and so much inspiration for tanks


Thanks! Oh, hey I never thought of that! I really need to share some of his fungi pics, amazing mushrooms, bracket fungus (Conks); great stuff! Think I'll just make an album of his pics at Photobucket so I can share the link here, lol  :Wink:

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## Xavier

> Nope... don't even know what that is  lol


It's a pretty weird/dark kids shows with more explanations than Five Nights at Freddy's!(which is pretty hard to beat)

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## Josh

> Thanks, Bill! You can see why I'm addicted to his photos, and to Oregon  I really hope someday we'll see his work go pro. 
> 
> Gotta  love The Voice-- mom swears Blake Shelton must be related to us, as he  looks almost exactly like an uncle of hers on her dad's side. Blake's  such a smart alec (albeit a talented smart alec, lol) that I can believe  it!


Hahaha, and the bromance between Blake and Adam is hilarious!!!

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## irThumper

> It's a pretty weird/dark kids shows with more explanations than Five Nights at Freddy's!(which is pretty hard to beat)


Will take your word for it!  :Wink:

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## irThumper

> Hahaha, and the bromance between Blake and Adam is hilarious!!!


Totally! Those two guys are crazy, lol!  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## irThumper

Ok, as promised here's the link some of my fav photos of Jay's of various critters he's found while on the job (Wildlands management/firefighting)  :Smile: 

Fav Pics By My Cousin Jay Photos by irthumper | Photobucket

He has some awesome fungi pics too, that all you frogger types can appreciate  :Wink:  I'll add those soon!

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## Xavier

> Will take your word for it!


Word of advice, it's addictive. Here I am at 12:04 in the morning watching it... :Big Grin:  :Big Applause:  Oh, I need sleep... :Sleeping:

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## irThumper

Here's some more of my poetry... 

My Writing by IrThumper on DeviantArt

I've wanted to write ever since I took Creative Writing in high school. My preferred genre is Fantasy (naturally, being a Unicornologist, lol) with the poetry being a bit of a sideline. My mother is the real poet in the family, but sadly she has been unable to write any since her stroke years ago.  :Frown:   I would love to have a book of mine picked up by a traditional publishing house (like TOR Fantasy) someday, but it is going to take a heck of a lot more than just muse; I, unfortunately, have forgotten a lot more about the technicalities of writing than I probably ever knew!  :EEK!:  Right now the fantasy writing is on the back burner while I work on a project based on my experiences with my current froggles.  :Smile:

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## irThumper

Going to wrap this week up with a few thoughts that are important to me  :Love Heart: 


Treat everyone as kindly as you can, for you don't know the struggle someone may be going through. May you
in turn find kindness and compassion when you need it the most.

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## Amy

_Week 2, tell us about your amphibians. How you came to keep them, mistakes/learning curves, species kept, breedings, how you found Frog Forum etc....we heard enough about you on week 1, let us hear about them frogs!_

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## irThumper

Ah, frogs... my first introduction to Mother's Nature's denizens of the great outdoors. I was 6-years-old when my grandfather (a naturalist, self-educated ecologist, and Dahlia grower) gave me a pair of Pacific tree frogs (formerly Hyla regilla, what we now know these days as Pseudacris regilla/"Pacific chorus frogs") to take to show and tell. I was mesmerized by these tiny beings... their large eyes and whimsical faces, long legs, and especially their tiny hands with fingers that gripped twigs and blades of grass so proficiently. It was love at first sight, and it endures to this day.  :Smile: 

Those first two frogs were named Junior and Sissy, and we wound up keeping them as pets. They lived, at first, in a one gallon pickle jar with holes punched in the lid. They had mossy branches to climb on, a nice river rock to sit on, and a tiny red ceramic baking dish for water. My mother was in charge of their care and would mist them a couple times a day and change their "swimming water" daily & clean out their jar and replace or wash the native moss once or twice a week. She would leave the water to gas off in a kettle a couple days before giving it to the frogs. I was in charge of catching bugs, and what kid isn't good at that? I would stalk flies and moths, go after young grasshoppers, dig for grubs and tiny earthworms, and other assorted creepers the little frogs might like, and they liked a lot! When winter came along the bugs became fewer and farther in between, and mother knew we would have to do something fast to keep our resident froggles fed. We didn't have a pet store back then (that I remember) just a Five and Dime which carried Budgies, hamsters, mice, canaries, finches, goldfish and guppies; if they'd had anything else it would likely have been turtles and Carolina anoles (which they called "chameleons" back then) but no frogs or other reptiles. Since we didn't know where to get bugs my mother had the idea to buy fish vegetable flakes and tropical fish conditioning food, she then mixed that with the leanest sirloin burger she could find and rolled it into tiny fly sized bites... "Frog Food" was born. We would make quarter sized balls of frog food and wrap it in plastic wrap, then in aluminum foil, and keep it in the freezer a plastic freezer jam box. When we fed the frogs we would take out one of these frozen balls and warm it in our hands or a glass of warm water. I sometimes used to sit on the frog food to unthaw it while watching cartoons... still wrapped, of course, lol. Well the next problem came with trying to get the food into the frogs. We tried tossing the bits near them, balling it up around the end of a string then swinging it in front of them, or just wiggling it with the end of a straw. Green and gold Junior would make a grab once in a while, but Sissy... oh no, little pansy faced, fat bodied, bright green Sissy would have nothing to do with such schenanigans! She puffed up, tucked her head and refused to eat. This worried mom, who talked to grandpa on the phone-- he said we would have to force feed them if we couldn't get them to eat. And that is what mom did. She got some blunt flat toothpicks (they were much stronger and less apt to break back in those days), put a folded terry towel on the kitchen table, lay some dry paper towels on that, then gently took each frog in a damp paper towel, pried open their jaws and popped in a tiny nugget of food. She learned to quickly stroke under the frog's gullet with the flat end of the toothpick so they would swallow and not spit the food back out. She gave each frog 2-4 little pieces of frog food, then set them on the paper towel covered bath towel, and taking a squeeze bottle, dribbled water over the frog for a "drink". After that back into their clean house they went. Sissy was a stubborn little pill and never did learn how to eat frog food without being force fed (live bugs no problem), but Junior, now Junior was smart! It only took my mother maybe three or four feeding sessions before one day Junior took the food on his own! He was sitting on the towel (I was watching him so he wouldn't jump away) and my mom was using the toothpick to pull little bits of frog food from the bigger wad. She then rolled it between her fingers (we always washed and rinsed our hands thoroughly before and after) and was trying to put it on the end of the toothpick when it fell off... Junior leaped over and nabbed the food right off the towel! Mom thought it was a fluke, but she saw he was watching as she rolled more food; she put it on the end of her finger, let it roll off, and he grabbed it again... the third time he didn't even wait for the food to fall but took it right off her finger, and that was how Junior (and later a select few of his future companions) ate ever since.  :Smile:  

I'm not sure if we have photos of our froggles from back then, other than from a newspaper article that was done on our "unique pets" when I was 9, but it and the photos are probably long buried in the family photo box (wherever it is!) If I can find it I'll dig around and see if I can get some decent scans. 

Well it's almost 3 A.M. here! (Darn Daylight Savings Time, ugh!) so I need to hit the sack. More about Junior, Sissy, and our past crew of froggles tomorrow.  :Wink:

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## Xavier

> I'm not sure if we have photos of our froggles from back then, other than from a newspaper article that was done on our "unique pets" when I was 9, but it and the photos are probably long buried in the family photo box (wherever it is!) If I can find it I'll dig around and see if I can get some decent scans. 
> 
> Well it's almost 3 A.M. here! (Darn Daylight Savings Time, ugh!) so I need to hit the sack. More about Junior, Sissy, and our past crew of froggles tomorrow.


 :Frog Surprise: You had a newspaper article! :Frog Surprise:  Lucky! my sister had her picture in one as well :Frown:  yet no picture for their little brother who was in the same school :Frown:  :Big Grin:  I'm just kidding about being sad, that was when I was like, 4-5 years old, so I don't even remember where that school was! But your still pretty lucky! :Big Applause:

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## Heather

Stunning photography!  :Smile: 

Wow! Great ideas for Vivariums as well  :Wink: .

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## irThumper

> Stunning photography! 
> 
> Wow! Great ideas for Vivariums as well .


I'm thinking of suggesting to Jay that he take some pics specifically for use as vivarium backgrounds too  :Wink:   I know I want one!  :Big Grin:

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## irThumper

> You had a newspaper article! Lucky! my sister had her picture in one as well yet no picture for their little brother who was in the same school I'm just kidding about being sad, that was when I was like, 4-5 years old, so I don't even remember where that school was! But your still pretty lucky!


Lol, thanks :P It was years ago and I don't remember much about it myself  :Wink:  My mom did all the interview stuff and my staring shot was a pic of me holding up a jar with our pet garden snails, Lady, Blondie and Indigo  :Big Grin:

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## irThumper

Amphibians are like pretzels, you can't have just one...

When mom perfected her frog feeding technique we decided to upgrade Junior and Sissy to a bigger home and get them a few friends. We added PCFs Green Girl, Gwendolyn, Cousin, Baby, and Rupert 1, 2 and 3... The Ruperts looked like triplets and were all brownish with bold black markings.  :Wink:  Most of these guys were various rescues from cats, or children who brought them to us because their mothers wouldn't let them keep them, or our most interesting find-- the baby tree frog hopping down the produce aisle floor in the grocery store! 

Interesting facts:

--Junior and Sissy lived to appx 6+ years.

--Other than our PCFs we eventually also had six Pacific Red-Legged frogs (Rana aurora) named Swampy, Rosy, Cedrina, Jerome, Shadrach and Mescach; a Western toad(Bufo boreas) named Wart; three Rough skinned newts (Taricha granulosa) named Sally, Nikki, and Newtly; a Northern alligator lizard (Elagaria coerulea) named "Skink"; and three garden snails named Lady, Blondie, and Indigo. 

--We took our first PCFs on a road trip through Oregon/Washington once because we couldn't find anyone knowledgeable to care for them while we were on vacation. I sat in the back seat of the car next to the tank, which was wrapped in towels to protect it. It was my job to mist the frogs through the screen lid to help keep them cool. We carried frozen frog food with us in a little cooler. I remember mom and dad sneaking the tank into the Motel 6... lol!  On the way home from that trip we had to stop for a swarm of little red newts that were crossing the road at a bridge... I was threatened with permanent grounding if I tried to get out of the car and collect any!  :Wink: 

--The frogs are the reason my folks finally got air conditioning... to heck with the people, couldn't let the frogs get too hot, lol!

--While waiting their turn at feeding time I let our frogs play on my Fisher Price Castle set; Junior used to climb to the very top of the flag then swat toward the overhead room light with his little hand.

(it was one like this)

--After graduation I had a pair of Firebelly toads (Bombina orientalis) named Yin and Yang

Next time: Froggy summers and a vacation blunder!

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## Frogger00

Wow you've owned a lot of frogs in your lifetime! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## irThumper

> Wow you've owned a lot of frogs in your lifetime! 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Not nearly as many as some folks though, I know, lol  :Wink:   Most of my experience as been with the native species. Back then no one cared if you kept a few as pets, nowadays in this state you're not supposed to keep any of them  :Frown:  They don't even allow people to have Firebellied toads here anymore, which really SUCKS because those guys are awesome! We aren't allowed to have other species from across the U.S., like American Greens, Barking tree frogs, or Grays (etc.) either *sniffs!* and yet we are allowed to have Cane toads and Cuban tree frogs!  :EEK!:  Makes no sense to me at all, *shakes head*.

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## Frogger00

I feel your pain about not being able to have certain species! A lot of toads are illegal here. Cane toads for one, and also bullfrogs! Rats are also illegal to own as well, and basically anything larger than a common boa is also illegal. Most of the animals are illegal because they are invasive. Big snakes, well that's just the government being dumb lol. I absolutely love cane toads, so it's really unfortunate that I can't have one! 


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## Eli

Congrats on MOTM, Lisa! It's great to get to know you better

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irThumper

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## irThumper

Thanks, Eli  :Smile: 

Speaking of pain... it's going to take me a bit to write up the frog stuff this week, I've messed up my knee and my lower back, and walking on crutches is freaking my carpal out, so I'm pretty much a physical wreck right now  :Fatigue:  I have a doc appt to get to today (wish I could say it was for me!) so will be making a big froggy post tomorrow to make up for it.  :Frog Smile:

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## irThumper

Almost forgot to post! Let's see, what was I going to put next... ah, I remember, summer vacation at Fort Stevens National Park Fort Stevens (Oregon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The thing I remember most about Fort Stevens, other than the cool (and kind of spooky) concrete bunkers, was... the frogs!  While on a walking tour of the bunkers we discovered some water sitting in the depression of a gun turret. In that water were metamorphosing tadpoles, likely Pacific tree frogs. I remember how fascinated all us kids were by this, so much so that the park ranger couldn't continue the tour until we had satisfied our curiosity about these new little life forms; the tour had turned from a history lesson to a biology class! 

The park and campgrounds at Fort Stevens was a veritable Herper Heaven. There were trails along wooded streams, open meadows, ponds... all fully accessible to the snooping of frog loving camp kids. One time my friend, Freddy, and I went with some other kids and went looking for "Swamp frogs" (Pacific Red-legs). There had been one spotted near a bridge in a slow section of the creek near the camp ground, but the water was full of some kind of sludgy stuff that looked like sewage (but didn't smell like it), so none of the other kids wanted to try to catch him... but they knew I would  :Wink:  I went down to the water, and this tannish looking stuff was thick and gross ( I still to this day wonder what it was!) but there was a big Swamp frog floating right in the middle of it-- I wanted that frog! I tried to get him to swim toward shore by tossing pebbles behind him, but he kept popping under then coming up in a different spot. Finally he came up close to the bank... I crouched over preparing to make a grab at him-- and slipped and fell into the creek! When I came up I was covered head to toe in mystery muck... but I also had my frog!  :Big Grin:  I proudly toted him back to camp but I didn't get to keep him for long, unfortunately. My mother let out a shriek that would have woken the dead when she caught sight of me... lol. She made Freddy take my frog back where we got him and I had to be washed off with a garden hose (that water was COLD!) and then had no less than two baths in the camp showers, one in my clothes and one without... I swear mom almost scrubbed the skin off of me! I was given a good chewing out and threatened NEVER to do anything like that again... it didn't keep me from becoming mired up to my knees in green slimy mud during another frog adventure later on, though, lol!  :Wink:

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## elly

Hope you feel better soon. 

it's weird because I also used to collect toads and let them loose in that Fisher-Price castle set.

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## irThumper

> Hope you feel better soon. 
> 
> it's weird because I also used to collect toads and let them loose in that Fisher-Price castle set.


Birds of a feather! Or should that be froggers of a feather... lol  :Wink:

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## Xavier

> Almost forgot to post! Let's see, what was I going to put next... ah, I remember, summer vacation at Fort Stevens National Park Fort Stevens (Oregon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The thing I remember most about Fort Stevens, other than the cool (and kind of spooky) concrete bunkers, was... the frogs!  While on a walking tour of the bunkers we discovered some water sitting in the depression of a gun turret. In that water were metamorphosing tadpoles, likely Pacific tree frogs. I remember how fascinated all us kids were by this, so much so that the park ranger couldn't continue the tour until we had satisfied our curiosity about these new little life forms; the tour had turned from a history lesson to a biology class! 
> 
> The park and campgrounds at Fort Stevens was a veritable Herper Heaven. There were trails along wooded streams, open meadows, ponds... all fully accessible to the snooping of frog loving camp kids. One time my friend, Freddy, and I went with some other kids and went looking for "Swamp frogs" (Pacific Red-legs). There had been one spotted near a bridge in a slow section of the creek near the camp ground, but the water was full of some kind of sludgy stuff that looked like sewage (but didn't smell like it), so none of the other kids wanted to try to catch him... but they knew I would  I went down to the water, and this tannish looking stuff was thick and gross ( I still to this day wonder what it was!) but there was a big Swamp frog floating right in the middle of it-- I wanted that frog! I tried to get him to swim toward shore by tossing pebbles behind him, but he kept popping under then coming up in a different spot. Finally he came up close to the bank... I crouched over preparing to make a grab at him-- and slipped and fell into the creek! When I came up I was covered head to toe in mystery muck... but I also had my frog!  I proudly toted him back to camp but I didn't get to keep him for long, unfortunately. My mother let out a shriek that would have woken the dead when she caught sight of me... lol. She made Freddy take my frog back where we got him and I had to be washed off with a garden hose (that water was COLD!) and then had no less than two baths in the camp showers, one in my clothes and one without... I swear mom almost scrubbed the skin off of me! I was given a good chewing out and threatened NEVER to do anything like that again... it didn't keep me from becoming mired up to my knees in green slimy mud during another frog adventure later on, though, lol!


I used to try to catch this green anole that lived on/by our house for like 5 years, and it's funny is because we had caught him while he was a baby and got stuck on our front door during a cold night during fall. We named him lucky, and every spring/summer he comes to greet/taunt us with his dewlap,(there are no females around him when he does that) and every time we go to catch him, he teleports to the bush it seems like! He probably learned our tactics of two is better than one, and avoided us that way. If your wondering how an anole can remember, check out this page from Frank Indiviglio! Green Anole Intelligence - Researchers Shocked by Lizard Brainpower

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## Xavier

Also I just realized... Gravity Falls is set in Oregon... Are you holding out on us... :Big Grin:

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## irThumper

> I used to try to catch this green anole that lived on/by our house for like 5 years, and it's funny is because we had caught him while he was a baby and got stuck on our front door during a cold night during fall. We named him lucky, and every spring/summer he comes to greet/taunt us with his dewlap,(there are no females around him when he does that) and every time we go to catch him, he teleports to the bush it seems like! He probably learned our tactics of two is better than one, and avoided us that way. If your wondering how an anole can remember, check out this page from Frank Indiviglio! Green Anole Intelligence - Researchers Shocked by Lizard Brainpower


That is AWESOME!  :Big Grin:

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## irThumper

> Also I just realized... Gravity Falls is set in Oregon... Are you holding out on us...


Nope, I swear! lol. The only falls I am familiar with are Multnomah Falls, Bridal Veil Falls, Horsetail Falls, Silver Falls, and Salt Creek Falls  :Wink:  The TV show I still am clueless about. Guess I'll have to see if they have anything on YouTube, lol  :Wink:

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## irThumper

Will be writing more about this tomorrow, and about the experiences with my White's tree frogs tomorrow or Sunday  :Smile:

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## irThumper

Guh... sorry I didn't get anything posted today-- we managed to get through the winter (if we could even say we HAD winter here this year!) with nary a sniffle and now I've caught the darn bug that's going around (dad had it first) *sigh*. I am so sloooow... I got involved replying to a message from someone looking for WTF breeders only to find it's 1:14 A.M. and I am exhausted  :Apologetic:  I promise I will get all my froggle postings done today (Sunday) so I can get onto photos and videos on Monday! (I feel like such a schmuck, meh...)  :Fatigue:

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## irThumper

Ok, back to this...


(In the interest of time I am going to repost my very first post, which was about the guys we built this micro-eco habitat for)  :Frog Smile: 

I first found FrogForum while researching for the above project... here is my very first post!




> *Pacific NW Frog Lover* 
> 
> 
> Hello all! 
> 
> My name's Lisa but my friends call me "Thumper" (first name given pre-birth, lol). My introduction to the world of amphibians began when my grandpa gave me two Pacific tree frogs to take to first grade show and tell a LONG time ago. I have been a frog lover ever since! From those first two little frogs we wound up being "'Phib Keepers" for a number of years as I grew up. Our last were a pair of Bombina Orientalis back in the mid 1990's, then we had a long hiatus... until recently. At the beginning of July 2014 we had a Pacific tree frog show up on the sidewalk near our wheelchair ramp, out in front of our apartment. We have green space behind us (closest known water source is a small pond at a retirement center a few blocks away) but everything here is all concrete and black top out front, no landscaping. We placed a small water dish by the ramp and would look for froggy at night as he climbed up the wood siding and snatched flying insects drawn by the porch light. From the first frog three others eventually showed up... what concerned us was we were heading into a heat wave, and all these little frogs had was a hot sidewalk, a short wheelchair ramp to hide under, and a little dish of water. One day it was so hot that one of the frogs was out in the dish in the middle of the day; he looked bad, and when I came closer he didn't even move. I wondered if he was comatose from the 100 degree heat... he didn't even move after I picked up the dish-- until I took it into our air conditioned apartment, then his eyes suddenly popped open! I put him inside a long tank containing two trailing semi-miniature African violets and he looked very happy to see the plants, crawling into one immediately. We made the decision to try and bring his other little friends in as well (all four were half grown). It wasn't too hard, as when I opened the door that night one was sitting on the metal ridge right in front of the doorway (it might have been cooler there due to the ac leaking through?) so I scooped him up and brought him in; the same scenario happened with #3 & #4. So now we have had these little green & brown "house guests" for about 4 weeks and have made them as comfortable as possible. I determined that when the weather/temps moderate (the frog temps indoors range between 73-75 F. vs the 90 degree temps currently outside) that we would return them to a more frog friendly environment, making sure to be in plenty of time for them to get ready for winter hibernation. In the meantime a 5th frog showed up outside! And that's when I came up with the idea to build a micro-eco frog habitat out on our sidewalk. I've enjoyed having these guys for a visit, and I have taken plenty of video to remember them when they leave our froggy hotel  Someday I hope to be able to get a pair or trio of White's Tree Frogs and keep them in a really awesome live planted set up, something I've wanted to do for a long time, lol. Would love to talk to other folks who especially love tree frogs. Thanks! ~irThumper 
> 
> 
> http://www.frogforum.net/introductions-area/30712-pacific-nw-frog-lover.html


Here is the album I made of our visiting PCFs, inside and out  :Smile: 

irThumper's Album: Pacific Tree Frogs by irThumper

On September 28, 2014 our little house guests returned to the wild; they were released in ecologically friendly PCF habitat (with shrubs/trees/meadows, a creek, and breeding pond) on private property. This album details that day...

irThumper's Album: Pacific Tree Frogs Return to Nature by irThumper

In the couple months I sheltered these PCFs I learned quite a bit more than what we knew about frog care growing up... there was NO information back then, and we basically were winging it, with recommendations from my ecologically experienced grandpa. We never had any problems with our PCFs as far as skin disease, MBD, intestinal issues (they always had nice firm little poops), constipation, etc. The only issue we ever ran across was one frog who prolapsed and another, older frog, who eventually went blind but otherwise led a perfectly normal life. We kept our first frogs for 6+ years and many of them lived to be at least that old, maybe older, as the majority of them were fully grown adults when we got them. This time around I discovered just how many advancements have been made in herp keeping and care... there are many species available in the herp trade, a good selection of supplements & feeder choices, numerous housing options, supplies galore, decor up the wazoo, and best of all there are internet resources like FrogForum! The one thing still lacking is knowledgeable herp vets, particularly where frogs are concerned-- frogs need to stop being viewed as "disposable" pets because veterinarians that deal with them are so few and far between, and when they are located that the expense is often so exorbitant that folks can't afford to pay. It's not that frogs are any less valuable (just look at various prices for some species!) or deserve treatment less than more typical pets, the problem is that when a problem with a frog arises that the deck is often severely stacked against them for survival, especially when it comes to issues requiring more than just simple medication. Frogs are fragile, sensitive beings... they are the barometers of the world, and are showing us what we ourselves are facing if we don't do something to clean up this planet and fix what human beings have done to destroy our home  :Frown: 



Next: From PCFs to WTFs, learning curves galore!

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## irThumper

I don't remember when I saw White's tree frogs for the very first time, but I know when I did I thought they were AWESOME and I was determined to have some someday. I had forgotten about my idea until our summer PCF project wrapped up; I again thought about the White's tree frogs, but I determined maybe I should start my modern day frog keeping with something a little closer to the PCFs. While doing research last year I discovered restrictions on keeping frogs in our state... I found out that, along with not keeping native species as pets (which apparently was not an issue when I was a kid!) that Bombina Orientalis were no longer allowed here (bummer!) but that neither were some other frog species commonly kept as pets across the U.S., namely Gray tree frogs, American green tree frogs, Barking tree frogs, and similar  :Frown:  There went THAT idea! I also found out that Cane toads and Cuban tree frogs ARE allowed here... they live in the same places as Grays and American greens and DEVOUR them, so how convoluted is that??  :EEK!:  But there still were the ever popular Dumpy's, thankfully!  So I made plans for the "future"...

As stated in my very first FF post, my idea was to get a nice large tank and make an awesome living vivarium set up for 2-3 White's tree frogs. I was going to set up this viv and let it establish for a year, then purchase some WTFs online from a reputable source-- yeah, riiiiiight! Lol. I had been purchasing crickets from the PCFs at our local Petco, but had not noticed any White's tree frogs at the store, only the usual reptile suspects and an occasional PacMan, then one day I went back to look and guess what? They had a couple of babies, and they were ADORABLE! Whenever I went in for more crickets (about every other week) I would look to see if they had WTFs in, sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't, but they never had many at a time so I figured they must be very popular and sell out fast. After our PCF friends returned to nature I still went in for crickets, as I was feeding some to the PCFs hanging around the micro-eco habitat we put up. I noticed one day (Oct 1, 2014) that Petco had changed all the cages around and now the White's tree frogs were on the side the lizards had formerly occupied. I went to see if they had any WTFs and lo and behold they had a HUGE batch... I thought that was pretty crazy, stuffing all those guys into one tiny 5 gallon tank, and I couldn't understand why they had a bowl of moss in their tank... The PCFs were naturally kept on native mosses, but they didn't have the impaction risk that WTFs had (as I learned on FF) so I couldn't understand why moss in with these babies, much less in a bowl? They had a piece of mopani wood in with them, Eco-earth, one small fake plant, and a very shallow dish partially filled with water-- and that was full of substrate. There were crickets everywhere loose in the tank. Most of the frogs were crammed in the upper corners of the tank by the heat and humidity gauges, some of them were on the ground. One thing that caught my eye about the sleeping frogs was that some of them had little flecks of white on them, or white spots on their sides, which was different from the plain green WTFs I'd seen in a previous store and online, and one was a very pale honey color. I immediately thought of Sandfire Dragon Ranch and their special WTF morphs (this was where I wanted to get my first Dumpys), and when I noticed the cheap price of the frogs at Petco my mind started clicking... But no, I said I would wait a year and not get any frogs from a big box store, especially after some of the things I had heard, and the obviously poor management of the animals at the store. But I thought, what would it hurt to just to ask to see the frogs (oh, HA HA HA!). One of the clerks came and opened the tank (I had rinsed my hands and dried them well ahead of time, which she had not) and I went to pick up the honey colored frog... this little thing made great strides to not be captured, clear to the point of leaping clean out of the tank and landing on the floor! I said the frog was a sassy-pants, lol. After putting that one back I next picked up the largest one in the group, a pretty bluish-green with little specks of white and bigger white side spots.This frog was more placid. The clerk was talking to me about the frogs, and then she told me something that made up my mind for me... she mentioned how they had gotten a batch of 6 baby WTFs in before this latest one, and some idiot worker at the store put them in the tank the tree frogs USED to be in. That tank was now used for housing lizards-- the baby frogs BAKED to death!  :Frown:  That was it, sassy-pants frog and blue-green frog came home with us that night! And I was totally unprepared... well, almost, lol. 

The first thing the clerk tried to do was put the baby frogs in a little cardboard carry out box, I refused that and asked them if they had any plastic shipping containers... they'd just received a new batch of baby tree frogs (thumb print size) three days before, and put them in with the bigger guys who were probably a couple weeks older appx, so they still had their containers. The kids barely fit into them, as their backs were just touching the plastic lids, but they rode home on damp paper towels (unchlorinated water) in those little plastic dishes. When I got them home I took a plastic food grade jar I used to transport crickets in and drilled some holes in it, I then took the lids off the plastic shipping containers and placed these into the jar side by side. This is where the new kids, later dubbed Honey-Lime and Shirley, stayed while I prepared the 5 gallon 2nd hand Kritter Keeper (the one I used to transport the PCFs to their new home) as their new temporary home/QT tank. I knew of the possible risk in contacting Chytrid (even thought the PCFs seemed perfectly healthy) so I bleached the bejeebers out of that Kritter Keeper then rinsed and rinsed with hot water until there was no bleach smell left. I put down white Viva paper towels for substrate, gave them a water dish that they wouldn't drown in, and a live Dracaena compacta var. "Janet Craig", that I had. I didn't want them to get into the soil (because of perlite) so I packed some clean loose moss tightly onto the surface, figuring since it was up off the ground I wouldn't have issues with them eating crickets off moss (one of those learning curve things!)




...I'm going to go ahead and publish this now and get back to it. We've got a big windstorm kicking up here right now and the lights just flickered; I don't want to risk losing this post if the power goes off (and I'm worried about the frogs too if it does!)  -To Be Continued!

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## Amy

Sorry I'm so late in the day posting this!  It's been a busy day!

_Week 3, show and tell. Wow us with your pictures/videos/sound clips._

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## irThumper

No worries! I'm late finishing up week #2!  :Big Grin:  I'll just do that and swing right into the photos and vids  :Wink:  ...After I finish helping someone on Facebook with a Chytrid question for their poor juvenile WTF  :EEK!:

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## irThumper

Continued...




> I don't remember when I saw White's tree frogs for the very first time, but I know when I did I thought they were AWESOME and I was determined to have some someday. I had forgotten about my idea until our summer PCF project wrapped up; I again thought about the White's tree frogs, but I determined maybe I should start my modern day frog keeping with something a little closer to the PCFs. While doing research last year I discovered restrictions on keeping frogs in our state... I found out that, along with not keeping native species as pets (which apparently was not an issue when I was a kid!) that Bombina Orientalis were no longer allowed here (bummer!) but that neither were some other frog species commonly kept as pets across the U.S., namely Gray tree frogs, American green tree frogs, Barking tree frogs, and similar  There went THAT idea! I also found out that Cane toads and Cuban tree frogs ARE allowed here... they live in the same places as Grays and American greens and DEVOUR them, so how convoluted is that??  But there still were the ever popular Dumpy's, thankfully!  So I made plans for the "future"...
> 
> As stated in my very first FF post, my idea was to get a nice large tank and make an awesome living vivarium set up for 2-3 White's tree frogs. I was going to set up this viv and let it establish for a year, then purchase some WTFs online from a reputable source-- yeah, riiiiiight! Lol. I had been purchasing crickets from the PCFs at our local Petco, but had not noticed any White's tree frogs at the store, only the usual reptile suspects and an occasional PacMan, then one day I went back to look and guess what? They had a couple of babies, and they were ADORABLE! Whenever I went in for more crickets (about every other week) I would look to see if they had WTFs in, sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't, but they never had many at a time so I figured they must be very popular and sell out fast. After our PCF friends returned to nature I still went in for crickets, as I was feeding some to the PCFs hanging around the micro-eco habitat we put up. I noticed one day (Oct 1, 2014) that Petco had changed all the cages around and now the White's tree frogs were on the side the lizards had formerly occupied. I went to see if they had any WTFs and lo and behold they had a HUGE batch... I thought that was pretty crazy, stuffing all those guys into one tiny 5 gallon tank, and I couldn't understand why they had a bowl of moss in their tank... The PCFs were naturally kept on native mosses, but they didn't have the impaction risk that WTFs had (as I learned on FF) so I couldn't understand why moss in with these babies, much less in a bowl? They had a piece of mopani wood in with them, Eco-earth, one small fake plant, and a very shallow dish partially filled with water-- and that was full of substrate. There were crickets everywhere loose in the tank. Most of the frogs were crammed in the upper corners of the tank by the heat and humidity gauges, some of them were on the ground. One thing that caught my eye about the sleeping frogs was that some of them had little flecks of white on them, or white spots on their sides, which was different from the plain green WTFs I'd seen in a previous store and online, and one was a very pale honey color. I immediately thought of Sandfire Dragon Ranch and their special WTF morphs (this was where I wanted to get my first Dumpys), and when I noticed the cheap price of the frogs at Petco my mind started clicking... But no, I said I would wait a year and not get any frogs from a big box store, especially after some of the things I had heard, and the obviously poor management of the animals at the store. But I thought, what would it hurt to just to ask to see the frogs (oh, HA HA HA!). One of the clerks came and opened the tank (I had rinsed my hands and dried them well ahead of time, which she had not) and I went to pick up the honey colored frog... this little thing made great strides to not be captured, clear to the point of leaping clean out of the tank and landing on the floor! I said the frog was a sassy-pants, lol. After putting that one back I next picked up the largest one in the group, a pretty bluish-green with little specks of white and bigger white side spots.This frog was more placid. The clerk was talking to me about the frogs, and then she told me something that made up my mind for me... she mentioned how they had gotten a batch of 6 baby WTFs in before this latest one, and some idiot worker at the store put them in the tank the tree frogs USED to be in. That tank was now used for housing lizards-- the baby frogs BAKED to death!  That was it, sassy-pants frog and blue-green frog came home with us that night! And I was totally unprepared... well, almost, lol. 
> 
> The first thing the clerk tried to do was put the baby frogs in a little cardboard carry out box, I refused that and asked them if they had any plastic shipping containers... they'd just received a new batch of baby tree frogs (thumb print size) three days before, and put them in with the bigger guys who were probably a couple weeks older appx, so they still had their containers. The kids barely fit into them, as their backs were just touching the plastic lids, but they rode home on damp paper towels (unchlorinated water) in those little plastic dishes. When I got them home I took a plastic food grade jar I used to transport crickets in and drilled some holes in it, I then took the lids off the plastic shipping containers and placed these into the jar side by side. This is where the new kids, later dubbed Honey-Lime and Shirley, stayed while I prepared the 5 gallon 2nd hand Kritter Keeper (the one I used to transport the PCFs to their new home) as their new temporary home/QT tank. I knew of the possible risk in contacting Chytrid (even thought the PCFs seemed perfectly healthy) so I bleached the bejeebers out of that Kritter Keeper then rinsed and rinsed with hot water until there was no bleach smell left. I put down white Viva paper towels for substrate, gave them a water dish that they wouldn't drown in, and a live Dracaena compacta var. "Janet Craig", that I had. I didn't want them to get into the soil (because of perlite) so I packed some clean loose moss tightly onto the surface, figuring since it was up off the ground I wouldn't have issues with them eating crickets off moss (one of those learning curve things!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...I'm going to go ahead and publish this now and get back to it. We've got a big windstorm kicking up here right now and the lights just flickered; I don't want to risk losing this post if the power goes off (and I'm worried about the frogs too if it does!)  -To Be Continued!


Back to the story--

The first two kids lived in the kitchen for the first few days. It was plenty warm inside for early October and they didn't need any supplemental heating, the only downside is I had to move their tank every time I wanted to use the microwave! :O 




Eventually I moved the guys into my plant room. So as the two new froggles were settling in I kept thinking back to the other WTF babies in the store, and so on two subsequent trips to get supplies that week I checked in on them. I'd had my eye on one of the other snow flakey ones, but I also wanted to check in on a tiny little dark chocolate brown one that had been sitting on the mopani wood both times-- same spot, same posture, apparently alseep, all hunched over with his little eyes tightly closed. The last time I saw him that way I was determined to take him home-- yeah, generally a big mistake, I know. So I went back 9 days after buying Shirley and Honey... the little speckled green guy was there, but where was the little dark guy? I asked the clerk, who was, of course, completely clueless. I said, "He's been sitting on that mopani all week, but it's been moved. Did someone clean the cage?" And, natually, she was STILL clueless. So she opened the cage and flipped the mopani over then moved on to looking behind the fake plant, but I saw the little guy! He was all flattened down and covered in substrate. I said, "There he is!" and pointed, and the clerk said, "Isn't that poop?" I gently poked the "poop", and it moved...! NOT poop! Poor baby  :Frown:  So I scooped the tiny frog up and they put him into my frog carrying container, along with the light green snowflake baby and my 2nd set of White's tree frogs came home. The snowfkale baby was named Sheila, and the little brown guy I named Jelly Bean, after the cappuccino Jelly Belly bean, due to his color and markings.

Sheila seemed to settle in well from the very beginning, but poor Jelly Bean still had his eyes shut and barely moved... but he wanted to try. He could sense the crickets when they were near, and would make a grab for one when it went past him, he also somehow managed to follow Sheila to the top of their flower pot perch. I didn't see Jelly going to the water dish, I think maybe he was afraid of drowning because he couldn't see, so I gave him gentle misting baths, or drizzled water onto him from a squeeze bottle. After three days he went from this...




To this! His eyes were open and he was coming out of his shell...! Though at first I wondered if he was blind (he still had some trouble aiming at crickets) this soon proved not to be the case.



Jelly and sHEila looking at a cricket on the leaf above (mirror in the background)


Jelly Bean watching water dropplets slide down the glass (mirror in background)


So there I had my first set of White's tree frogs...

Everyone seemed to be settling in well, Jelly wasn't blind, you'd think everything would be hunky dory happy happy joy joy! right?
Well... not so much... O_o

Coming next: The problems with POOP!

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## irThumper

And now a word from our sponsor-- COMING THIS SUMMER TO YOUR FAVORITE STATION...




(No one specified if they all had to be frog videos...!)  :Biggrin:

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## irThumper

This spot reserved for POOP! Normal... Or Not So Much...? 

(To be continued...)

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## irThumper

Guh, this darn cold! I will get the post about my WTFS... I will! In the meantime will post some Week 3 vids!

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## irThumper

Starting with the PCFs...

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## irThumper

A local pet store (independent)...










Hmm, had some vids of more frogs than just that first guy (anyone know if he's a Litoria Infrefrenata or a Cuban??) Will have to find those and post them.

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## Xavier

I have seen the video before and it's a White-Lipped

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irThumper

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## Xavier

Hey, the thread has 100 posts now! Let's keep it going!

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## irThumper

Lol, I do tend to drag things on...  :Stick Out Tongue:   Another doctor appointment today so will continue when I get back!  :Smile:

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## irThumper

News! Shirley, Honey-Lime and Jelly Bean all tested negative on their last fecals! (Last 2-3 actually), so can finally get out of QT and go into their nice big communal tank together-- finally!  :Big Grin:

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## Xavier

:Big Grin:  :Big Applause:  Please post the pictures!!

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## irThumper

> Please post the pictures!!


Will be doing this once my cold bug is all over but I definitely will!  :Smile: 

I know one thing, they will get to keep their beloved PVC hide, and likely get another to boot, lol  :Wink:

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## Xavier

:Congratulatory:  So cute!!

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irThumper

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## irThumper

After that news flash, back to my frog poop story... lol.

To recap, I purchase my first two WTFs, Shirley and Honey-Lime, on Oct 1, 2014. They settled into their new home well, ate their crickets (though I think the ones Petco told me they had been eating were too big for them), they soaked, shed, I'd found poo in the container I brought them home in so figured all was well... then a few days later I noticed that Honey-Lime had runny poo; hmmm... I'd never had a frog with diarrhea before, so didn't know if this was something normal for WTFs due to too many crickets, or the supplements or what, but Shirley didn't have runny poo, so I wondered about that. A couple weeks went by a Honey's poo wasn't always runny, but it wasn't firm either, and I started noticing that Shirley's poo was getting softer now as well... plus there was this gelatinous stuff, which I found out on FrogForum was a classic sign of coccidiosis. Not good.

Shirley and normal poop


Honey-Lime's abnormal poop



I found a herp vet online who would do a fecal test for me, so I sent a sample off from Honey and Shirley's tank. I figured since Jelly Bean and sHEila were having normal poop that I would NOT need to test them (another learning curve). Well the fecal test came back positive for coccidiosis all right, and the vet told me to treat everyone, including Jelly and sHEila, with Metronidazole oral suspension. That's when I learned how to weigh a frog using a digital kitchen scale...


...To be continued (Next: Learning how to medicate frogs-- another BIG learning curve!)

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## Amy

Great news!  I'm glad things are going well!  They certainly have chubbed out quite a bit  :Smile:

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irThumper

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## irThumper

(I'd be posting way more pics way faster if not for the glitch by the way... ugh. Takes forever to get everything into Photobucket, and that won't load more than one at a time for me, bleh!)

Here's a Lucy Blue-Eyes slideshow off Photobucket, it says they are doing maintenance over there so hope this works!


LUCY BLUE-EYES Slideshow by irthumper | Photobucket

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## irThumper

Martha, WTF Wannabe Pacman Frog, Turned Cricket Ninja!

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## irThumper

> Great news!  I'm glad things are going well!  They certainly have chubbed out quite a bit


Thanks! Oh definitely... some of them, like Martha (who was always fat actually) and Jelly Bean, TOO much! They definitely need diets, or frogercize, or both... lol  :Wink: 

Jelly Bean Uber Pudge

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## irThumper

...Continued:

Learning curves galore... learning how to medicate frogs!

Like mentioned before, I had to learn how to weigh the frogs, then I had to figure out how to get the meds INTO the frogs... they were so small I was terrified to try and force feed it to them :/ (Thanks to Nicole and Jabba froggy for the tip on the blunt end needles though, keeping that idea for the future!) After more research and advice I decided to try to inject the Metronidazole/Flagyl into waxworms and then feed them to the frogs-- easier said than done! I was using a small 1.0ml syringe and to start was using a 16g needle (I think) and I had a heck of a time injecting those blasted worms. I found if you tried to inject them while they were still cold out of the fridge that they were flat and not plumped out... I stuck myself in the darn finger more than once, or jabbed two holes in the worm so the meds leaked out. I went to a 20g needle and that poked a better entry hole, I also waited for the worms to warm up and start moving, then I could hold them in a way that helped get the needle inserted (wish I had that on video, maybe one of these days). I also learned that 0.04ml of Metro is the extent you can inject into one appx 1" waxworm without the med leaking out from the entry hole (be careful not to squeeze the worm after injecting too!) now, by comparison, Panacur is a thicker medication, so won't take 0.04ml; I had to inject between 0.02-0.03ml of Panacur into the waxworms and feed more of them to get the right dose. The first week of medicating I was a hand shaking cursing mess injecting the worms... there were air bubbles to contend with, or the amount of med I had to give so small (0.02ml for Jelly Bean) that I couldn't get it from the needle into the worm, sticking myself, guh, it was a disaster. The next week I got the smaller needle and things were a bit better; I was supposed to treat them with Metro once a week for three weeks initially, BUT I didn't calculate that I should weight the guys EVERY week before medicating, as they were growing (though it wasn't really noticeable at first because their growth rate was slowed due to the parasites apparently) so that first three week session was pretty much a wash-- they were still showing clinical symptoms, and they had almost doubled their weight in a month, so the treatment extended to 9 weeks total. I know how to inject waxworms pretty darn good now, for the most part. As I posted earlier, my original guys are now clear of coccidia and hookworm-- that's after multiple fecals from the first mail in source AND with 2nd opinions from 2 different sources... one which has become our new go-to vet. Even though he is a fur kid vet, he's also a herp owner (Beardie) and he was willing to run the fecals and use video and pics of my frogs so I didn't have to stress them by bringing them in (though he is close so if I had to I would). I'm definitely going to foster and encourage this vet relationship, and I have given him a flashdrive with all my frog medical research so far, lol! He seems to know his parasites and medications at any rate (I bet his Beardie is thanks to that!) and am glad I took the chance of checking in with him.  :Smile: 

Next: The video I gave our new vet of our frogs. (I also gave him a bunch of pics of each one so he could see what they looked like from the time we got them up to now. I included the video with Shirley's scary bloody mess, and video of my poor sHEila's prolapse, just so he could see what we've been dealing with) and video showing what products I use for our froggles, including feeders-- and something that surprised the heck out of me as far as feeders go!

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## irThumper

In the meantime... more pics of our PCF friends:

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## irThumper

Here's the vid I gave our new vet (not including the tons of extra pics, lol)

PS: This edition doesn't have the mystery stuff from Shirley or the  prolapse from sHEila... pretty graphic stuff so I'll post that  separately if anyone wants to see it :/




Our WTFs care supplies, etc...

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## irThumper

Baby Shirley and Honey-Lime's very first video!

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## irThumper

Tried to post Jelly Bean and sHEila's first vid last night but my film editor crashed... grr! Going to go try that again  :Wink: 

Ok, it's a long compilation and I have to edit it down all over again, so in the meantime will post some short vids...

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## irThumper

"Get out of my spot!"

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## Eli

Can't wait to see a communal tank for all your white's! Your frogs have such personality  :Smile: ! I just love them!  :Big Grin:

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irThumper

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## irThumper

Thanks!  :Smile:   Me too, as long as I can keep Shirley from gobbling up all the food and make sure no one bullies little Jelly Bean!  :Wink:

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## irThumper

Finally done! Jelly Bean and sHEilas first week home...

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## Amy

*Week 4, answer any questions posted to you regarding your posts from the previous weeks. Other members can use this opportunity to pick your brain. (All questions must be appropriate and related to topics of discussion.)*

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## irThumper

> *Week 4, answer any questions posted to you regarding your posts from the previous weeks. Other members can use this opportunity to pick your brain. (All questions must be appropriate and related to topics of discussion.)*


Would it be ok to keep adding a few photos and vids through Q&A week too? Considering I had such trouble, being sick and having a pain in the butt video editor to deal with...? lol  :Wink:

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## irThumper

'Cause I have a lot more... heh

Unboxing Lucy



Lucy's 2nd day home; eating crickets



Lucy looking cute in the cricket dish



Lucy looking cute in (and out) of the water dish



Lucy Compared to Shirley

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## irThumper

I actually should have posted Martha's vids first, since she is our 4th White's tree frog and Lucy our 5th (well, technically they are 5th and 6th, but since we lost poor little sHEila, yeah...)




Martha, cricket ninja!



Martha crams a nightcrawler



Very Stubborn Frog!



Martha's Blankie

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## irThumper

We pause this froggle moment to bring you a random, unrelated, fav of mine...  :Wink: 



For those of you who don't know who Lea Salonga is, think Disney: Jasmine and Mulan  :Smile:  



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lea_Salonga

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## irThumper

To Mist or Not to Mist



Bowl Feeding Teenage Honey-Lime and Shirley



Slimy Yet Satisfying



Convo With White's Tree Frogs



sHEila and Jelly Bean Cricket Chomp



Shirley and Honey-Lime Bowl Babies

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## irThumper

"What are you doing, Shirley??"



Shirley and Honey Sleepin and Wakin Up



Random Moments With Shirley and Honey-Lime



Last ones... exhausted... must sleep... *THUD!*  :Sleeping:

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## Eli

Did you seriously stay up till 2 a.m to post that?! Lol!

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## Frogger00

I have a question for you. When all your frogs are able to be together, what are your caging plans? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## irThumper

> Did you seriously stay up till 2 a.m to post that?! Lol!


Actually it was closer to 2:30  :Stick Out Tongue:  The video editor was working, YouTube was cooperating, I could breathe for a change (not so much right now) so I went for it  :Wink:

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## irThumper

> I have a question for you. When all your frogs are able to be together, what are your caging plans? 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Well, Martha and Lucy all ready have a medium-tall Exo-Terra that they will be going into, once I get their strongloide worms under control. I'll be dosing them with ivermectin (as soon as I'm feeling well enough to tackle the job without poking anyone's eye out!) and then again in two weeks. I've collected various decor, a big roll of repticarpet, and a few different dishes so I can decide what I want to use for soaking/feeding, etc. I also have a waterfall filter thingy, but not sure if I will be using that in this particular enclosure or not. I have fake plants galore and some live pothos and sanseveria I can use. My idea is to use the "KISS" method (Keep it Simple Silly!) in setting up my guys permanent enclosures; I want it to look nice, and I want it to make them comfortable, but I also want to be able to clean things easily and help keep bad organisms at bay or at least under control. I'm very tempted to do a natural living vivarium, but it's not something I want to try while we are living in this dinkwad apartment. Once we are able to get a house, and a "frog cave", I'll be able to set up more permanent planted setups without worry of having to dig up and break everything down in able to move. I was going to put Shirley, Honey and Jelly Bean in a 40 gallon bow front I have in storage, but with my back issues I think I would much rather get them an Exo-Terra as well, and take advantage of those front opening doors! 

We have the one in the center

Some of the plants I have to use (gave away the dieffenbachias) Planning on using the dracaenas and the sanseverias, and the Golden pothos




Lucy and Martha's Exo-Terra is sitting up on a chest of drawers, but the other guys enclosure is going on this (we still have it in the box)  :Wink: 


Will be using these freshwater grow lights from AquaTraders (6500K T5s) for lighting for the plants and then my double deep mini domes for the day and night heat bulbs like I do now.



All of my "wood" decor is aquarium grade imitation, any stones (too large to digest) are tumbled and polished.


I don't have this rock cave looking one yet but want it bad!

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## Frogger00

Very cool! Be careful with those caves, you will never get your frogs out! Lol once I had a cave placed on top of their soaking dish, they loved that thing so much they never came out! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## irThumper

> Very cool! Be careful with those caves, you will never get your frogs out! Lol once I had a cave placed on top of their soaking dish, they loved that thing so much they never came out! 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Heh, no worries on this one, it's more like a big scoop out of the "rock" instead of a full cave. I know what you mean though! If I didn't take Martha's cocohut out at night she'd never come out! :P

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## Frogger00

> Heh, no worries on this one, it's more like a big scoop out of the "rock" instead of a full cave. I know what you mean though! If I didn't take Martha's cocohut out at night she'd never come out! :P


Lol that's good. Yes you did what I had! Cave in a water dish! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## irThumper

> Lol that's good. Yes you did what I had! Cave in a water dish! 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


It's actually a glazed ceramic flower pot saucer but yep, same idea!  :Smile:  The smaller flower pot saucers actually do make good water dishes for the smaller guys  :Smile:  Jelly still uses one.

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## irThumper

44 minutes of our special little sleepy eyed, newt face, midget boy White's tree frog-- Jelly Bean!

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## irThumper

Frog Faces! If White's tree frogs took selfies  :Wink:

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## irThumper

While the crickets chirp (both literally and figuratively, lol) I will continue to post bits of froggy goodness  :Wink: 

Random Pacific chorus frog videos

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## irThumper

Suburban Pseudacris

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## irThumper

Random: My new favorite food to eat when I have a cold seems to be popcorn with salsa con queso & smoked salmon  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Amy

Lisa, you've been an excellent member of the month!  Thank you so much for everything you've shared with us.  I love seeing how your mom nurtured your love for amphibs (and nature in general) and I hope I'm doing the same with my kiddos.  You are a very appreciated member here at FF  :Smile:

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irThumper

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## irThumper

> Lisa, you've been an excellent member of the month!  Thank you so much for everything you've shared with us.  I love seeing how your mom nurtured your love for amphibs (and nature in general) and I hope I'm doing the same with my kiddos.  You are a very appreciated member here at FF


Aw, thanks!  :Tickled Pink:  I'm sure your little ones are going to be confirmed 'phibby lovers and teach their kids to be the same too!  :Congratulatory: 

I'm just glad my computer started cooperating with me *knock on wood*, lol. I could share this stuff all day... in some cases I have!  :Wink:  I just hope I will be feeling good enough to go to our PNW Reptile and Exotics Expo this weekend... told my dad I'd be going if I had to drag myself there, heh. I hope I can score some good feeders and take some video while I'm there. It will be my first ever time attending a herp expo!  :Smile:  http://www.pacnwrs.com/

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## Amy

I'm jealous!  I've not been to one yet.  Hopefully this fall...

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## irThumper

> I'm jealous!  I've not been to one yet.  Hopefully this fall...


Seriously?? Hope you get to go this year! And take plenty of pics  :Wink:

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## irThumper



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## irThumper



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## irThumper

Thought I'd share a few other critters I've filmed before, aside from froggles  :Wink:

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## irThumper



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## irThumper

Hope Elly sees this one...! Had to title this video for the caption she provided to the pic that goes with it, lol  :Wink:

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## irThumper

Honey-Lime hates to get up early. He and Shirley were asleep on opposite walls of the tank and I filmed these vids and took a few still shots... Honey didn't like that and grunted at me while I was taking the pics, heh. Meanwhile next door Jelly Bean got up and was ready to hunt, as can be told by his little toe twitch thing, lol.

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## irThumper



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## irThumper

My problem child!

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## irThumper

My last post for MOTM will be video I took at the PACNWRS expo today. My  darn camera battery finked out on me but I got some video of some  awesome itty bitty baby froggies while there ^_^  I went just to get  supplies and feeders this year, but next year I just might be hittin' up  these folks for a couple baby Bird poop froggles or so  :Wink:

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## irThumper

It's been fun! Thanks for having me as MOTM for March 2015!  :Smile:  

This isn't a video I shot, but it's about Sandfire Dragon Ranch and is AWESOME! If I could raise White's tree frogs that amazing I'd be thrilled... I literally dream at night about coming up with a new and unique pied Whites Tree Frog. Maybe someday!  :Smile:  Well, minus the glitter... for some reason the frogs are always sparkly, lol!  :Big Grin:  :Stick Out Tongue: 




EW! Ok I hadn't seen the cover pic for that-- gross (I see what they did there though, lol)  but ignore the drama of that  lead in and go watch the beautiful set up, frogs and lizards of Bob Mailloux!  :Wink:

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## Eli

It's was great getting to know you better Lisa! With your knowledge, any White's that you breed will be some of the healthiest around! Hey, don't give up hope, maybe you can breed a sparkly frog  :Big Grin: .

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irThumper

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## irThumper

That would be one heck of a mutation, LOL!  :Big Grin:  Thanks, Eli!  :Smile:

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