# Frogs & Toads > Frogs >  Could I get some help with an injury?

## Lovino

Aiya! Right when I thought Sage was getting better he got a nose injury. Its under his nose, on his lip. He has been in a 10 gallon holding tank, with a water dish, cups to hide in, and unprinted white paper towels I change for the ground. I have been treating him for a foot injury(thats almost fully recovered) 

I have been treating the nose injury with unmedicated neosporin just like the foot, but it looks rough. He seems to be hopping, soaking, and eating like normal. When I bring the q-tip to it, it seems to hurt, which I feel bad about. 


I just want to know how this might of happened? Is he hopping into the sides of the tank trying to get out? Or is it some sort of infection, again?

I was going to ask for help in my previous thread:http://www.frogforum.net/frogs/29487...ease-help.html
But I was afraid I might not get help in it, due to the number of post.

Images: 
1st is of the injury, second is the injury but sorta where you can compare it to the good side.  I'll try to get better pictures.

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## Lovino

forgot to mention, smooth edges on water dish and cups, also by unmedicated I mean non-pain relieving.

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## Lija

It looks like infection of sorts, not typical place for it though, would u be able to take better pics? i will look at your other thread a bit later, gotta go now.

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## Lovino

Fricken A! really!? Yeah, Ill snap more photos soon. 

I dont have money to go to the vet. Would formalin and malachite green baths work again? 

It seems like he bumped it against the tank when trying to evade me, and made it bleed again. I was thinking it was from smashing against the tank, hating the small tank and all.

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## Lovino

Photos:1-3 mouth. 4 foot, which I have been treating and have actually seen improvement in. 


It has seems he has lost interest in food again! Just when I thought he was getting better! I have no clue as to what has happened, im so frustrated and upset at this.

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## Heather

The lip injury looks to have actual missing tissue. How long has he had it? The foot still looks rough. 

Is there any way you can get some silver sulfadiazene cream? 

My concern is that:
1. Has he infected his own lip with bacteria from the foot.
2. Is it from him trying to get out of the tank though the right sided area is not common. Most nose run issues are on the center of the end of their noses. 
3. Is the neosporin working. The foot still has a lot of redness and the center looks infected. I think he may need vet prescribed meds at this time. 

From what I can see, I think he needs further medication. 

Or, did he get injured on something?

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## Lovino

His foot was healing. it was pink, till recently. The area of the wound decreased too. Then his lip got hurt. Initially it was a light pink too. I was immediately concerned, I noticed that he was trying to hop through the tank from his favorite spot(or at least where he tends to stay) on to a near by shelf, banging up his lip. So I made sure to cover that spot of tank so he couldn't see it. At that time his foot was looking good, and it looked like he was going to get to return soon, so I figured I would treat his lip and he would stop busting it now that it was covered.

 But it grew worse over time, and soon he was acting like his foot was in pain again.(maybe a week or less)

 The neosporin does have trouble staying on so I have dab the wounds gently dry. also the foot photo is after he has hopped away from me for awhile, so it might be red from that.  As I said he WAS recovering and eating, he just started back sliding..... :Frown:  

As for the vet, Im literally  broke. The last time he was sick it drained the last of my money, my cars broken and I cant afford to fix it. I going job hunting with my moms car this weekend.

Im trying the malachite and formalin again, if its the same infection, it fought it off the first time. I think failed to treat him long enough if it is the same infection.

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## Heather

I will try and order some SSD for you. I'll have to talk to Dr. Frye first. Can you send me the best photos you've got of the lip and foot? I'll have to email him.

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## Lovino

the above is the best I have. Hes wiggly and I dont want to restrain too much. I have sent emails to him myself... I just cant afford the meds. I have asked my family for help paying, but they have this mind set of "its just a frog." So im alone in this.... I would greatly appreciate any help, but couldnt ask you to spend that much.

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## Heather

What did Dr. Frye recommend? SSD and Baytril? Metronidazole?

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## Heather

I apologize, I read so many posts, it's hard to remember them all.

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## Lovino

He never got back to me. I sent to him, Tuesday. Before that I sent before memorial day, before the lip injury and he said "Other than the foot, the skin doesn't look too bad.  You could try the formalin- malachite green soaks again, but I would strongly recommend treating all three wounds with Silversulfadiazene."  I replied back asking how much I should dilute the formalin- mlachite green soaks, because I am using fish tank  formula (formalin- malechite green is the only active ingredients in what im using), which doesnt list how much is in it.   I have been using the fish tank amounts, for a 5 minute soak daily. 

I waited for a reply on how to dilute it, and never received one.    He isnt getting back to me at all....

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## Heather

Weird. Ok, I'll call them tomorrow.

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## Lovino

I'm sure I just got missed. ^^; 

I put a cricket in with sage (hurt frog) before giving him a soak. I watched for awhile and he didn't eat. So, I made sure I had the paper patted down so the cricket couldnt hide under it, and the top secure so it couldn't escape. I figure Sage might not eat since I'm there, and I'm pretty sure I scare him now. So I came back later, and the cricket was gone. When I went to clean the tank, it was not in his cups, water, or paper. So I think Sage ate the cricket, but theres a chance it escaped somehow. However thats doubtful, so I'm sure he ate it.

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## Carlos

At this time I would go with stronger antibiotic like Silversulfadiazene. Repeating the treatment that failed (formalin-malachite green soaks) is probably not going to work well  . Also, please ensure there are no sharp decor were frog could injure itself in tank. 


Another option is to get Maracyn Plus (effective against gram + and - bacteria) at your local pet shop fish section and treat frog with it. Just follow the bottle's directions; but be careful you do not overdose. What I do is prepare a gallon of treated dechlorinated water and use it to replace the whole volume in the frog's enclosure water section as needed. That way the frog is exposed to medication all the time it's in the tanks water. Good luck  :Smile:  !

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## Lovino

Ill try maracyn if I can afford it. Thank you for the suggestion!

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## Lovino

I havent been able to get the maracyn (yet), but i have been using the formalin-malechite green and neosporin. I think I see improvement, they definitely look more pink, and havent gotten larger or deeper.


I dont know why that first image is so large...

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## Heather

The wounds do look better  :Smile:

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## Lovino

I just feel like slamming my head into the tank atm! When Sage seems to get better he starts getting worse again!   Now hes head tilting to his right (the side of the injuries). I could post images, but its just him tilting his head....He also swims in a corkscrew motion in the water, i noticed when I went to soak him with his medicated soaks. I didn't soak him, in fear of poisoning him. (formalin-malechite green)From some research I did on it, and from prior bio knowledge, it could be spinal injuries, ear infection, or from bacteria. given his lip and foot, i would assume bacteria.I have to make the trek to the side of town with the pet store tomorrow, I was already planning to pick up maracyn plus. Will it help now, if I do? and generally how much is it?

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## Carlos

Unknown to me; it appears Sentry (bought Mardel, maker of Maracyn) has stopped production of those products  :Frown:  .  When available; the Maracyn Plus bottle was around $10.  

Another option is to check local store for the medications Dr. Frye recommended.  Also, could try a pond bacterial antibiotic, those are normally frog safe.

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## Lovino

Of fricken course our petsmart doesnt carry much pond meds! I found another frog owner/employee after searching through fish/frog/lizard/turtle meds for ones with the same active ingredients as the now non-sold maracyn. I found one, that was rather pricy, and was a tablet. It had the same ingredient as i think maracyn 1, i dont remember the ingredient, it started with an e. WELL the other frog person/employee listened to my story and what I was doing. She recomended melafix (active ingredient: melaleuca) which has the same active ingredient as the aquatic frog and turtle meds.  She told me it was frog safe, she had success with it, and the tabs would be difficult, a mess, and too pricy. Do you guys know about melafix?  It was affordable, so I did get it, seeing it as an option, possibly my only option.

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## Lovino

So i did some calculations, the melafix says 1 tsp for 10 gallons. So im mixing 1 gallon, so i need .1 tsp. 1ml equals roughly .202 tsp, so i would need to use .5 ml for a gallon. But this would be for fish, so i would need .25 ml (half) for one gallon for a frog, then let him soak for a minute or two, does that sound right?

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## Carlos

There are different Melafix products that use various concentrations so do follow the labels instructions.  If dosage states 1 teaspoon/10 gal.; it's easier to convert the teaspoon to milliliters and work with that.  ! teaspoon = 5 ml, so for 1 gal. solution you would use 0.5 mil Melafix in 1 gal. dechlorinated tap.  That is the dose you would use in the frogs water dish or water section in the enclosure, to provide as much contact time as possible.  

You can also use in dips; but it will be less effective that way.  Melafix was designed for fish that are in full contact with it.  You want your frog to have the same treatment if possible and do not dilute it any further since Melafix is not a strong medication.

It would help us if you keep all posts about a frogs ailment in one thread.  Starting a new thread for every other related question can cause confusion and prevent those that help you give proper advice.  Thank you  :Smile:  !

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## Lovino

thats why i returned to this, the other was just more to verify what to get asap. his wounds looks nearly healed.  ok, well hes not doing much actual soaking himself. so i should do full strength soaks, for how long? i gave him a half dosage for 5 minutes.  Full strength in his drinking water too? also should i put some in  the spritzing bottle too?

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## Heather

Not necessary to add to your spray bottle. 

SSD was sent today. When you get it, rinse out his water bowl and just use dechlorinated water. Apply the SSD cream to the wounds once daily.

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## Lovino

The melafix i have is 1 % melaleuca. So full dose drinking water, got it! But i need to know how  long to soak him.... also will the ssd, since it has sulfa,will it help cure more than the wound's bacteria?

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## Lovino

I forgot too, im almost out of spring water, i picked up some aquasafe for frogs/reptiles to make tap water safe, will it be safe to use with melafix.

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## Heather

Yes, you can first dechlorinate your tap water, then add the melafix.

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## Lovino

I got the ssd today, so im going to switch to normal water;unless its safe to use malefix with it. Will the ssd help fight off the illness in more than the wounds?

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## Lovino

Does anyone know if you can use malefix and ssd together? If so I want to, to help knock this bacteria out the park!

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## Lovino

Can no one help me with this question? I think the bacteria has progressed past the wounds, and now its making him ill, given the head tilting. Though he isnt getting worse. Looking on petsmart's site, is there anything I should try with him if he doesnt seem to get better? I was looking at the triple sulfa and one other that started with an e, same ingredient as maracyn 2. (cant remember the name) but im unsure if theyre safe. After the wounds heal, Ill still try the melafix. Is it possible for him to fight it off himself?

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## Heather

Hi Liz, I do not know if it's safe to use Melafix and SSD together. I have one more suggestion, and that is to contact Michael Novy via his Facebook page. He is a wonderful breeder that may have some other suggestions. Let him know you are from Frog Forum.


https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1089512983

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## Lija

> Does anyone know if you can use malefix and ssd together?


yes you can use melafix and ssd at the same time. Any fish medication is safe to use for frogs.

 However, it seems a problem is past self treating, i highly doubt melafix will do anything, you should be looking into systemic antibiotics and vet.

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## Lovino

> yes you can use melafix and ssd at the same time. Any fish medication is safe to use for frogs. However, it seems a problem is past self treating, i highly doubt melafix will do anything, you should be looking into systemic antibiotics and vet.


Honestly I dont have the cash that both herp vets near me required for initial test. Not only that, but theyre like 1-2 hours away, depending the one your going to. I adopted these guys to save them from the lab, a lab just using their legs to observe muscle twitches. Im trying my best, and he seems to be improving again. he isnt really head tilting anymore. He certainly doesnt seem like hes getting worse.

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## Heather

How's he doing? Any new photos?

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## Lovino

To be honest im not sure. Hes not head tilting, and i placed in a deep tub of water to see if he would corkscrew spin, and he didnt. So thats good... But his eye is still cloudy, but he isnt acting cramped on the prior head tilted side either anymore. He doesnt move much, and looks like hes sleeping. when I move him to medicate the wounds, he seems to wake up, and really starts to move. He seems to move when im not around, like across the tank. He isnt eating on his on, I recently found one my best friends father use to keep reptiles and frogs, and so did my uncle, so I might  ask them for help.

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## Carlos

> Does anyone know if you can use malefix and ssd together? If so I want to, to help knock this bacteria out the park!


Yes you can as Lija stated.  SSD should be applied topically as per Heather's instructions.  Melafix solution can be used on frog's water's dish per the label's mixing ratio with dechlorinated tap water.




> Can no one help me with this question? I think the bacteria has progressed past the wounds, and now its making him ill, given the head tilting. Though he isnt getting worse. Looking on petsmart's site, is there anything I should try with him if he doesnt seem to get better? I was looking at the triple sulfa and one other that started with an e, same ingredient as maracyn 2. (cant remember the name) but im unsure if theyre safe. After the wounds heal, Ill still try the melafix. Is it possible for him to fight it off himself?


Frogs take a long time to heal.  You should continue treatment until frog either get's well or fails to recover.




> Honestly I dont have the cash that both herp vets near me required for initial test. Not only that, but theyre like 1-2 hours away, depending the one your going to. I adopted these guys to save them from the lab, a lab just using their legs to observe muscle twitches. Im trying my best, and he seems to be improving again. he isnt really head tilting anymore. He certainly doesnt seem like hes getting worse.


Sorry your rescue is causing grief.  Even for an experienced keeper with veterinary support; taking responsibility of an ill frog is very challenging and can always end in a dead animal.  Good luck  :Smile:  !

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## Heather

Hi Liz,

Is your frog hanging in there?

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## Lovino

Yeah, i feel real bad for her. (I believe that both of them are female after some research) She just sorta plateaued in healing. The wounds have been healing. But then her other eye started to cloud and her legs started to turn red, I was alarmed, so I did some research. I found tetracycline treats for gram positive and negative I think, not all mind you. So I started treating her with that, according to a guide I found, and using 3% saline solutions on her eyes. That was two days ago, since then her eyes have cleared a little, and her legs are no longer red. I'm hoping this medicine will do the trick. But Knowing my luck, and my poor frog it wont.... Her friend chives is doing fine, though shes fat......Which I was going to ask about in a separate forum.

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## Lovino

Still cant afford a vet..  :Frown:  Im putting in some applications for work, when I borrowed the money for the tetracycline for my frog, my mother told me "its just a frog, its not like a cat."

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## Heather

Awe  :Frown: . Sometimes others don't view frogs as pets because they don't think they respond back. I disagree though. My rescues are quite mellow and don't mind my presence. 

Are you seeing a difference with the tetracycline?

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