# Frogs & Toads > Pacman Frogs >  My new Pacman frog : cranwelli or ornata ?

## GRABibus

Hi all,

here is my new baby  :Cool: 










At the pet store, it was written "Cranwelli" on his fauna box, but according to me, it's an ornata. could you please help and advise ?

I say "Ornata" because he/She has red drawings above the eyes and alos a little bit on the back and I don't see really horns....

Thank you in advance.

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## Xavier

It's an ornate! Lucky you!

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## GRABibus

Thanks !

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## Cory

Congrats on your new frog, very nice looking. And I agree that its an C. ornata.

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## k5MOW

Very cool looking frog. 

Roger

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## Heather

He's an ornate... See his false eye spots (black or brown dots), one on the back of each eye?  :Wink:

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## Heather

Congrats on the nice find!  :Smile:

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## k5MOW

Congratulations. 

Roger

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## GRABibus

Thanks to all.

Some Pacman frog specialists in France think it could be a _cranwelli_ also, because of the typical drawings on his back.

Can cranwelli's have some red colors ? (Even a little bit as this frog)

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## Xavier

Still thinking that it's a ornate horned frog

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## Cory

Yes I imagine that some cranwelli's could have some red and different colours, there is so many different morphs out there. But I can tell you that you have a C.Ornata 100%, as stated before the false eye spots are a dead give away.

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Cliygh and Mia 2, Heatheranne

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## Stephanie

Very nice looking frog. I'd love to get one some day


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## GRABibus

Thank you to all.

Here She/he is in her temporary "Growth enclosure" :







Of course there is a cover above the fauna box to avoid she/he goes away and to avoid too much stress.

Not a big big eater. Impossible to feed with the tong, she/he is not attracted.

Only attracted when the prey runs in the enclosure...At least, at the moment, she/he eats.

I will keep on training her/him with the tong until success.

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## Xavier

He/she's adorable!

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## Cory

He is very nice looking little frog. A little observation from your second picture I noticed that may help abit with his appetite, is that probe on the back wall were you get your temp reading from? If so I would move it down abit, maybe to about the height of the edge of that container. As crazy as it sounds I bet there is a couple degrees difference, remember heat rises. It may be abit cooler for him then what is being read from on the gauge, and that couple degrees difference may speed up his metabolism and give him a little more of appetite.

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## GRABibus

Hi Cory,
thank you for the advice.
In fact, the probe is on the ground of the terrarium, on the right side of the fauna box.
But, you are right, even like this, I increased the temperature on the Thermo Control Pro 2 to 29°C, because, in the fauna box, there is 1°C to 3°C less. Then, I get 26°C to 28°C in the fauna box, which is correct.
Appetite seems ok, just the tong feeding which must be learned to the frog...
My former _cranwelli_ (RIP) was eating everything, with the tong or not, and with a feeding response of less than 2 seconds for each meal at each prey...
But all frogs are different  :Big Grin: 

Here are 2 feeding videos :

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## Krispy

Oooooooh hes a cute little ornata! Awsome find!

From the looks of everyones pacmans, my jiggly fatso needs a diet....

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## Cory

Ya the tong feeding can be challenging, but by the looks of the second video he will come around. My guy now was very timid of the tongs when he was a baby, took about 3 weeks to get him to take a whole meal by tongs. Were as my female I use to have ate from the tongs from day one. A couple little tricks if you don't know them already is to rub the food or let it touch the the underside of his bottom lip and this usually gets a reaction. Or I know it may sound weird but I found if I touched my guys front foot with the worm/cricket he would snap at it. The actual way I got him to take food from the tongs is I would rip the back legs off the cricket then lower it in with the tongs so he could see the cricket and the tongs, I would bring the tongs right down to the substrate and point the cricket in his direction and then it go so it ran towards him and he would snatch it up every time. I started lets say 4 inches away and slowly released it closer to him each night till he finally started not waiting for me to release them and would just grab it from the tongs.

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## GRABibus

Yes, it will be a real challenge the tong feeding : but at least, it has appetite  :Smile: 







On the third picture, the width and shape of the head make me think it is a female.

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## Xavier

> From the looks of everyones pacmans, my jiggly fatso needs a diet....


Who do you mean by that? Huey?

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## GRABibus

Evolution :











she has changed and seems definitely to be a female _ornata_

She is fed every other day with crickets, red runner roaches and earthworms, in adddition with calcium and sometimes vitamin D3.

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## Cory

Hi, if your frog is just a baby I would recommend feeding every night for the first couple months because he will need the food because these grow extremely fast. He will eat every night for you to, you might get the odd the night he may not want to but the majority of the time I bet he will eat. For the Vitamins I use to do Monday and Friday calcium&d3 and Wednesday multivitamin. Tues, thur, Saturday and sunday he got fed but no vitamins. I got the schedule from a thread posted by a moderator named Mentat and I can honestly say my Pacman frog is healthy as can be.

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## GRABibus

Concerning the frequency, 3 to 5 feedings per week are sufficient, even for a young.

Feeding videos :

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## Cory

Please don't think I was saying you were under feeding because if that's how it seems I wasn't. I was just letting you know that if you did want to up the feedings that he would eat the food being given. I thought I would share the info because again this is what i followed and my guy/girl has grown at a rapid rate and is very healthy and thought i would share it with you. Sorry if you took it the wrong way because again that wasn't my intention for it to come off that way. :Smile:

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## GRABibus

No no, I didn't take it in bad way at all  :Big Grin: 
But, I discussed with an exotic vet in Paris, with the boss of the most famous pet store for reptiles and amphibians in Paris (who is a well known worlwide reptiles and amphibians specialist), they told me that one feeding per day is too much for a young pacman especially of you fullfill the "15mns rule" (Except for a little baby).
Mne is not a little bay, she is already 5cms long...She is an advanced juvenile I should say.

Concerning vitamin D3, I agree with you. I will increase a little bit the weekly quantity.

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## Cory

OH ok, I thought you took it the wrong way. And I didn't do the 15 mins because it took him awhile to get use to the tongs, I would give him 4 to 5 crickets with there back legs taken off so they couldn't jump away on him. As he grew I added a couple more crickets to feeding and then after trying over and over again with them he eventually got use to the tongs so now I just go by when he looks full, which is after a few nice night crawlers or what ever he hes getting that night. I find you can really tell by there actions when they are full.

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joshua123

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## GRABibus

Today, locusts  :Frog Smile:

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## gut

What a beautiful baby!!

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## GRABibus

I still keep on training my baby with tong : this evening, success with a nightcrawler  :Frog Smile:

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joshua123

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## Pyru

That's a green ornata all the way. Eye spots are a dead give away. I also think you have a male. Nice pickup

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## GRABibus

I am more thinking about a female.
No nuptial pads and the head is large. No mating calls yet...

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## GRABibus

> I also think you have a male. Nice pickup


You are right. It's a male.
He croaks  :Smile:

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## GRABibus

Pictures...Always pictures  :Big Grin: 

Growth rate is impressive. He changes his shape roughly everyday  :Cool:

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Cliygh and Mia 2, Hypnofrog

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## Sherry

He is so cute! I really like his colors  :Smile:

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## Pyru

Looks good.  I'm fighting off buying a cornutas or joaz myself. I like your green ornate. I have a red, but looks wise I really like the green better. Definitely my most aggressive eater and fastest grower. I think she's pushing 4.5" now.

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## GRABibus

I made his new enclosure : Exo Terra 18"x18"x18" :





Global view :






=> Exo Terra 45x45x45
=> 10cms coco fiber
=> Big piece of wood and a wood bark (At the back on the right and left) to make him hide if he wants
=> Fake tropical plants
=> 75W heating cable with Lucky Reptile Thermocontrol Pro 2.
=> Exo Terra digital thermometer.
=> Reptifogger ZooMed which create fog during 15mns every 3 hours
=> Lighting with ReptiGlo Exo Terra 13W UVB5.0








Both sensors (The one of the Themocontrol Pro 2 and the one of the digital thermometer) :







And the last but not the least, "Graboule" who is waiting for food

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## GRABibus

Who said we can't communicate with frogs ?  :Big Grin:

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Cliygh and Mia 2, joshua123

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## Xavier

True! One time my sister yelled so loud in response to stubbing her toe that my red-eyed tree frog who was silent at the time just chirped in response. What made it funny, was I didn't know that it was the red-eye at the time, so I asked her to scream again so I could tell! (She didn't though... :Embarrassment: )

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## Pyru

I really like the green ornutas. Keep the updates coming

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## GRABibus

Updates :

Some news of my _Ceratophrys ornata_ (male) :





As you can see, he is growing well  :Big Applause: 


And also, he still eats very well :

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joshua123, monster, Sunshine

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## Cory

Wow he has grown pretty quick, hes looking good.

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## GRABibus

Yep, looking very good at the moment.

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## Stephanie

Love the colors and pattern. The video was a nice addition as well


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## GRABibus

Thank you.

Updates : a very nice green ornate  :Big Applause:

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Cliygh and Mia 2, Heatheranne, mermaidheather, Snappi13

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## GRABibus

Shedding :

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Cliygh and Mia 2, Hypnofrog, monster

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## Cory

Its pretty cool when they shed, I watched my new baby Ornate do his shed lastnight and still watched this because I find it so cool. And again hes looking very good and his colours are staying so bright. What do you you use for daytime light? I noticed you have light over your enclosure and I don't know if makes a difference but I just use the room light and my new guy has really went dark. I was figuring maybe it was a lack of light or something. Because either then that he is as healthy as a champ.

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## GRABibus

Today, back from summer Holidays, I put the fogger again to my male _Ceratophrys ornata_.
He thought it was time to catch "Women"...And then showed his vocal sack and tried to exit from the terrarium as he always does when I put the fogger.

Nice to see    : 















Conclusion  : I remove definitely the fogger as this excites him too much.

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## GRABibus

Today's pictures during feeding  :Frog Smile:

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Lija

Beautiful frog! Love how he still retains his green colours

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## GRABibus

Thanks !  :Smile: 
Yes, a beautiful green ornate.

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## GRABibus

Some news :















In one month, I will start to decrease day heat and daylight to prepare him to start hibernation period.

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Are you going to get a female for him?

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## GRABibus

His mouse of the month :

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Shakudo

Wow awesome photo's and video's!

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## GRABibus

Hi,
after 4 months hibernation, I tried to awake my male ornate...It seems with success  :Frog Smile:

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Beautiful Ornata, one again! I know I've said this before, but are you planning on getting a female for him? Beautiful frog, once again, lol  :Smile:

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## GRABibus

> Beautiful Ornata, one again! I know I've said this before, but are you planning on getting a female for him? Beautiful frog, once again, lol



Thanks !
No, I didn't plan any female for him.
Creating rain chamber is a lot of work and I don't have enough tim.

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## EXOthusiast

Hey nice pics n vids!

Good info too  :Smile: 

Well I'm new here and since we're on the same topic, would also wish to find out whether my new pacman "Tubby" falls under which type, Cranwelli or Ornata?

Here's some shots of Tubby [emoji2]







May not be the best of shots but hope you guys can help [emoji5]


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Cory

Hello, you have an albino Cranwelli.

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## EXOthusiast

> Hello, you have an albino Cranwelli.


Oh great!

I supposed that's one of the most common type of pacman??

But how could you tell, if you don't mind sharing?

Anyways, common or not..Tubby is my first frog so I'm very much pleased with this fella [emoji4]


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## Pyru

Start a new thread so we don't junk up this update thread. Ornata and cran are both really common though to be honest with a ton of morphs.

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## EXOthusiast

> Start a new thread so we don't junk up this update thread. Ornata and cran are both really common though to be honest with a ton of morphs.


Cool! Thanks!


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## GRABibus

Long time I didn't come on the forum !
Hello everybody and happy end of year !

My ornate male is still healthy.
Since 1 month I decreased progressively heating until 20°C. I also decreased duration of day light and also humidity : I prepare his hibernation period which usually occurs between December and May.
I don't feed him anymore.

Just wanted to post a video done some weeks ago : nice jump to catch his mouse !  :Big Grin:

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Hypnofrog

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## GRABibus

I woke up my Ornate male since one month, after 5 months hibernation : everything is ok !

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## Bryce

Sweet! He's a nice big guy, isn't he? He's got that mouse real good.

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## GRABibus

After 6 months hibernation, I finally could wake him up 2weeks ago. What a lazy frog  :Frog Smile: 



Everything is going well. He eats very well (Dubia roaches, canadian nightcrawlers and locusts until now).
He is now more than 3 years old.

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## Sajuuk Khar

> After 6 months hibernation, I finally could wake him up 2weeks ago. What a lazy frog 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is going well. He eats very well (Dubia roaches, canadian nightcrawlers and locusts until now).
> He is now more than 3 years old.


How do you wake him up exactly?  Both my frogs have been under for 3 - 4 months now and I think its close to the time to get them up.  Do you just undig him?

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## GRABibus

> How do you wake him up exactly?  Both my frogs have been under for 3 - 4 months now and I think its close to the time to get them up.  Do you just undig him?


First, you have to be sure this si teh time to wake them up.
in France, we wake them up starting in May usually.

Begiing of May, I remove the substrate aboe his head, moist a lot the substrate and heat the tank.
Wait for some days, and if you see them trying to dig again ad cover completely with substrate, it means it is not the time to wake them up.
Retry some days after. But keep mositing the substrate and heating.

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## Sajuuk Khar

Great thanks, I will try that.

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## Fat Frog

> Thanks to all.
> 
> Some Pacman frog specialists in France think it could be a _cranwelli_ also, because of the typical drawings on his back.
> 
> Can cranwelli's have some red colors ? (Even a little bit as this frog)



Your frog is an ornate for sure.
Both green and brown cranwelli can have some red on them.

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