# Frogs & Toads > African Bullfrogs >  could this be a problem?

## Dr. Matt

I have noticed lately that Mr Pickles bowel movements have been runny and loaded with these little hard grain looking things.  I have been feeding him crickets.  the grain looking things are about 1/8 inches long and fleshy white in color.  they do not move and are very hard.  i was feeding him giant mealworms a while back and when he went poo there were tons of mealworm heads in it.  i am just wondering if these may be cricket parts or should i bring him to a vet?  I would think if it was a parasite, the little things would move around or be soft, but i am stumped.  when he goes to the bathroom there is hundreds if not thousands in the runny stool.  usually he poos out a sausage like terd.  this has gone on the last few times i fed crickets.  he eats about 5 dozen easily in a single sitting,  AWESOME!

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> I have noticed lately that Mr Pickles bowel movements have been runny and loaded with these little hard grain looking things.  I have been feeding him crickets.  the grain looking things are about 1/8 inches long and fleshy white in color.  they do not move and are very hard.  i was feeding him giant mealworms a while back and when he went poo there were tons of mealworm heads in it.  i am just wondering if these may be cricket parts or should i bring him to a vet?  I would think if it was a parasite, the little things would move around or be soft, but i am stumped.  when he goes to the bathroom there is hundreds if not thousands in the runny stool.  usually he poos out a sausage like terd.  this has gone on the last few times i fed crickets.  he eats about 5 dozen easily in a single sitting,  AWESOME!


Sounds like pinworms. Seek a herp vet for a panacur/flagyl suspention to treat the frog. You want to place him in a hospital setup with only paper towels for substrate to help control the parasites. Keep the paper towels moist and change them and the frog's water everyday. Disinfect the enclosure during each water and paper towel change. Rinse extremely well with hot water and then again with dechlorinated water. Wipe dry before placing new towels and furniture back in with the frog.

Keep us posted.

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## Dr. Matt

i looked up those type worms and only found pictures of worm looking things,  the stuff thats coming out of Mr Pickles looks like hard wheat grains.  they are not soft nor move around.  does the eggs of pinworms look like grains of wheat?  thank you for all your help.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> i looked up those type worms and only found pictures of worm looking things,  the stuff thats coming out of Mr Pickles looks like hard wheat grains.  they are not soft nor move around.  does the eggs of pinworms look like grains of wheat?  thank you for all your help.


That could be worse. Tape worms often have shed segments of themselves that will appear in the fecal matter if they are located in the intestines. The segments can appear like grain or rice. Get a fecal exam done ASAP! Tape worms are very very bad. They can be passed to you as well, but that can occur with any parasitic worm. Whatever is in his feces it is not normal and needs to be checke out by a Vet.

What are you feeding him and I mean anything and everything?

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## Locascio

Grif is dead on ive worked for a hurp vet and 2 of my ABF hade the same thing in there poop and it turned out to be tape worms. it is the easy to treat if chought in time use pancure  to fix this issue youll need to see a vet the to get the stool checked out and then youll give pancure .1 ml for every 100 grams of frog WT.

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## Lija

grif, frog parasites are not contagious to human  :Smile:  

 Matt, please follow the advise and get poop tested asap for parasites and protozoa as well, while the only problem you have is runny poop and he is still eating and looking good.

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## Dr. Matt

thank you all!  i am going to bring the next stool sample in.  He is doing fine and is eating everything given to him with greed.  He eats crickets by the dozens and large meal worms, some goldfish and any mean fish i take out of fish tanks.  i do feed him frozen rats on occasion.  He like cockroaches also.  he would eat anything i give him.  he is beautifully colored and is very alert.  i dont know how he got worms or if these things are just undigested cricket parts.  i do know that when ever i feed large super worms the next stool has all the black heads in it.  i will be on the safe side and get this checked out. i will keep you all updated!
Thank you again!

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## Carlos

> ...some goldfish and any mean fish i take out of fish tanks...


Parasite vectors... "muy malo  :Mad:  !"

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> grif, frog parasites are not contagious to human  
> 
>  Matt, please follow the advise and get poop tested asap for parasites and protozoa as well, while the only problem you have is runny poop and he is still eating and looking good.


Lija not all parasitic worms are animal specific and yes you can contract tapeworms and pinworms. I don't know who told you that frog parasitic worms are not the same as the worms we can contract, but they're wrong.

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## Caspian

> Lija not all parasitic worms are animal specific and yes you can contract tapeworms and pinworms. I don't know who told you that frog parasitic worms are not the same as the worms we can contract, but they're wrong.


I agree with Grif here, most parasites that I've done research on are not picky about what animal they take on as long as it's got a compatible system to breed and roost in.

However, I think everyone else has you covered, Matt.

Good luck, and keep us updated.

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## Lija

All  parasitic worms  that can be found in frogs are not contagious to human or any other warm blooded being!  and vise versa human parasitic worms are not contagious  to a frog. In fact very small amount of worm species can affect people.

Grif if you think I'm wrong, please provide species of parasitic worms that can be found in both frogs and humans, nobody knows everything and if I'm wrong I would love to know it.

 Dr. Matt - even if those "grains" are not worms, runny poop  alone is a sign of something parasitic that is going on.

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## Louis Charles Bruckner

> All  parasitic worms  that can be found in frogs are not contagious to human or any other warm blooded being!  and vise versa human parasitic worms are not contagious  to a frog. In fact very small amount of worm species can affect people.


Lija
Here is a quote from 
Health Effects of Harmful Organisms | Natural Health & Organic Living Blog

*Roundworms/Pinworms*Did you know that there are more than 20,000 different species of roundworms? Some 15,000 of them live by sucking nutrients from hosts and “over 1.5 billions people are infected with some form of roundworm.” Roundworms are the most common harmful organism on the planet, but pinworms are the most common in the United States.
Pinworms are small white intestinal invaders and it is believed that may specifically target humans. Pinworm eggs move along the small intestine where they hatch and mature. Adult pinworms travel to the colon where they can live for several months.
Symptoms of pinworm infestation include anal itchiness, insomnia, and poor appetite. Because the eggs are laid around the anus and its itchy, the re-infestation in children can recur repeatedly when the child scratches and then transfers them to their mouths on unclean hands.
*Pinworms can live for as long as two weeks outside the body. And if someone touches a contaminated surface and puts unclean hands in the mouth, it’s very likely they may become infected.*

I will check with my vet but I suspect that it is very possible.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Lija  :Smile: 

Tapeworms are more of a worry than the Pinworms. There are so many different species out there of each and yes what may infect one animal may be harmless to another. Tapeworms are not always animal specific and no I do not have the link nor donI have the species, but one type in particular are found in locusts and I have read somewhere years ago that it was one that could also infect humans, but perhaps it was just hitching a ride. Like parasites found in most snails.

I'm far from an expert on these things so I'll let those who know more on the suject handle it.

Sorry if you felt put on the spot.

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## Lija

that's all right, but these things are better be clarified if in question. For zoonotic parasitic diseases different care measures are to be taken.
 I'll look if I find somewhere about it that I can post, most websites with specific information are locked for general public and i can't copy it so not to get myself in trouble  :Smile: 

 general principle - tapeworms - they have to have intermittent host, the whole cycle goes like that - egg-larvae-adult, larvae sometimes undergo 2 transformation for such 2 hosts are needed, in order for adult form to develop in host organism ( human) a person have to consume the larvae. The most common in humans are beef and pork ones, people get infected by eating not  properly cooked meat, that contains cysts with larvae. I've seen both, not sure how it is possible to eat meat with beef tapeworm cyst, they are big and very much visible. pork ones are small, but still visible to the extend.

 pinworms are specific to humans, so if you or your kid have pinworms your frog is safe and vise versa, but sure you wanna wash your hands and get it treated  :Smile:

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## ejh805

If they are adult crickets that you're feeding, I'd be willing to bet that your frog is passing cricket eggs that it can't digest.
Mine was doing the same thing a couple months back. I freaked out, scoured the cage, replaced everything, and had fecals done. They came back clean, and I then realized that the adult crickets I had were passing the same things through their ovipositors. So they were cricket eggs.

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## Lija

Emily I see bigger problem that poop is runny then these "grains".
 sorry guys couldn't find anything that I can post legally.

 the point is anything that frogs or reptiles (viruses, fungus, bacteria, parasites or protozoa) might have is not contagious to human. The only exception is Salmonella, it is transmitted through turtles/tortoises, however in theory reptiles might have it too and pass to human. Common sense is needed when handling reptiles, wash your hands, do not eat their poop, things like that and you'll be fine  :Smile:

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Emily I see bigger problem that poop is runny then these "grains".
>  sorry guys couldn't find anything that I can post legally.
> 
>  the point is anything that frogs or reptiles (viruses, fungus, bacteria, parasites or protozoa) might have is not contagious to human. The only exception is Salmonella, it is transmitted through turtles/tortoises, however in theory reptiles might have it too and pass to human. Common sense is needed when handling reptiles, wash your hands, do not eat their poop, things like that and you'll be fine


Really Lija???!!! You had to tell people not to eat the frog's poop?? That is beyond common sense. Lol!

About Salmonella. It is actually fact that Reptiles carry it. As a matter of fact baby turtles are covered in it and are not to be handled at all or if handled hand washing needs to be imediate.

Amphibians which is what we are talking about here Lol! Do have Salmonella on them. It is found on their skin, but I believe the amount is miniscule so chance of infection is there, but minüte in comparison to turtle hatchlings. Supposedly even reptile hatchlings are covered in it. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that they are cold blooded that this bacteria prefers as a carrier rather than use who it infects.


Anyway back to the problem at hand. Lija is 100% right that there is something wrong here. Very runny feces are a serious problem and signs of some serious issues that may need to be addressed. A fecal exam needs to be done ASAP. You need to determine the cause of this problem now. This may also determine what the grainules are. If they are indeed eggs I doubt they belong to the crickets that the frog is eating. Parasites such ad Pinworms and Tapworms lay their eggs within the host. They may be expelled through the vent since in most cases depending on the particular parasite they tend to lay their eggs near the anus(usually a Pinworm and roundworm preference) and thus when the frog has a bowel movement the eggs are expelled with the feces. Runny stool is normaly caused by the bowels being irritated by the parasite.

Get the frog checked because if it isn't a parasite causing this then it may be a more serious problem.

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## Louis Charles Bruckner

> Lija
> Here is a quote from 
> Health Effects of Harmful Organisms | Natural Health & Organic Living Blog
> 
> *Roundworms/Pinworms*
> 
> Did you know that there are more than 20,000 different species of roundworms? Some 15,000 of them live by sucking nutrients from hosts and “over 1.5 billions people are infected with some form of roundworm.” Roundworms are the most common harmful organism on the planet, but pinworms are the most common in the United States.
> Pinworms are small white intestinal invaders and it is believed that may specifically target humans. Pinworm eggs move along the small intestine where they hatch and mature. Adult pinworms travel to the colon where they can live for several months.
> Symptoms of pinworm infestation include anal itchiness, insomnia, and poor appetite. Because the eggs are laid around the anus and its itchy, the re-infestation in children can recur repeatedly when the child scratches and then transfers them to their mouths on unclean hands.
> ...


Lija is correct. 
I just got a response from my vet. 
"Avian and Exotic Animal CarePinworm infections are species-specific so no, YOU are not at risk. Your other frogs, however, will be. We always advocate washing hands after handling any animals just for safety's sake also."

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## Louis Charles Bruckner

Dr. Matt
Next time can you place a sheet of white paper under the hospital tank.
that way we could get a better picture. 

I hope that you have taken a sample into the vet and the frog. 
Keep us posted.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Lija is correct. 
> I just got a response from my vet. 
> "Avian and Exotic Animal CarePinworm infections are species-specific so no, YOU are not at risk. Your other frogs, however, will be. We always advocate washing hands after handling any animals just for safety's sake also."


That is settled then.

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## Carlos

> That is settled then.


That's the right attitude Colleen/Jerrod  :Big Applause:  !  BTW (and according to my INTEL sources  :Big Grin: ), when it comes to amphibian veterinary subjets... it's challenging to prove Lija wrong  :Frog Surprise:  .

Dr. Matt:  How is frog?  Did you had fecal analysis done?  What were results?  Thank you  :Frog Smile:  !

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> That's the right attitude Colleen/Jerrod  !  BTW (and according to my INTEL sources ), when it comes to amphibian veterinary subjets... it's challenging to prove Lija wrong  .
> 
> Dr. Matt:  How is frog?  Did you had fecal analysis done?  What were results?  Thank you  !


Hey! I can try! Lol!

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## Lija

oh that sweet feeling of being right  :Cool:  lol and i appreciate you guys trying  :Smile:   because that is how we are finding things out and proving them as well, rather then just go with "I've heard" or "I think". With so many different opinions and grey areas in amphibian care and medicine we gotta find things proven rather then based on opinions no matter whose these are. 
and hey you never know that is common sense for some people lol 

 on a subject though, Matt - how things are going, it would be very interesting to follow up on what's going on.

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## Louis Charles Bruckner

Dr. matt 

How is your baby doing I hope better.

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## iheartfrogs

> All  parasitic worms  that can be found in frogs are not contagious to human or any other warm blooded being!  and vise versa human parasitic worms are not contagious  to a frog. In fact very small amount of worm species can affect people.
> 
> Grif if you think I'm wrong, please provide species of parasitic worms that can be found in both frogs and humans, nobody knows everything and if I'm wrong I would love to know it.
> 
>  Dr. Matt - even if those "grains" are not worms, runny poop  alone is a sign of something parasitic that is going on.



It's good advice to *never feel safe around any sort of parasite ever*. I wouldn't want someones kid to get the impression that they can't catch parasites from non-humans, or that they don't need to be careful around their pets, even though that is not what you're saying here right now. *Parasites are scary O_O* Like us and everything else in the world, there is a possibility that they could adapt, change, grow... New species could still be discovered.

(I'm not disagreeing with Lija, but fear the parasites, please)

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## Dr. Matt

I found out that they were not parasites anyways!  they were undigested cricket limbs.  i stopped feading crickets and after a few bowel movements those things were gone.  he would eat 48 crickets in a sitting.  
  try feeding your frog crickets and then look at the stool in a few days, let me know if any of you see the same thing.

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## Dr. Matt

it turned out that they were just undigested cricket limbs. (: thanks for wondering!



> That's the right attitude Colleen/Jerrod  ! BTW (and according to my INTEL sources ), when it comes to amphibian veterinary subjets... it's challenging to prove Lija wrong  .
> 
> Dr. Matt: How is frog? Did you had fecal analysis done? What were results? Thank you  !

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## Louis Charles Bruckner

Good to hear,

BTW  when I started feeding only night crawlers to my pacman his BM was very loose and very smelly. 
And I found out why, when he was feeding on crickets he was getting small amounts of coco fiber with each cricket. 
so his BM was mostly coco fiber and a solid stool and had almost no odor at all. 

just FYI.

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## Dr. Matt

thanks for that!  i never feed him in his tank, i put him in a seperate clean tank for all feeding.  he eats, chills, then pees and goes #2, then i take him out, clean that cage, fill it with luk warm water (about an inch) and he chills in that for awhile, then i put him back in his real tank.  this way i see all of his BM's.  plus his cage never smells.

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## Lija

> It's good advice to *never feel safe around any sort of parasite ever*. I wouldn't want someones kid to get the impression that they can't catch parasites from non-humans, or that they don't need to be careful around their pets, even though that is not what you're saying here right now. *Parasites are scary O_O* Like us and everything else in the world, there is a possibility that they could adapt, change, grow... New species could still be discovered.
> 
> (I'm not disagreeing with Lija, but fear the parasites, please)


 no need to fear  :Smile:  i like to educate kids versus just to plain scare and the fact is you can't catch tapeworm from a frog but you can catch the whole bunch of worse things (bacteria, fungus). frog parasites can be just a walk in a park comparing on Mycobacterium marinum for example. so education is always a good thing, kids will know not to be scared but to have a knowledge and reasoning for washing their hands before and after handling amphibian of any kind, including in a wild.

 Matt, i was wondering how it will turn out  :Smile:  glad it was nothing!

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mattfish

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## Monza geckos

That's what you get from wc feeders

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