# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  Sick WTF - Green Spots???

## IgbyKibbits

Hello everyone - 

As you've seen in my other thread, little Kibbits is really sick : (.  He is now in a sterile quarantine tank, getting antibiotics and lamisil baths each day.  After taking him to the vet (and having the vet concerned about the spots), we read a lot more about the dreaded "neon green spots."  Luckily, Kibbits doesn't have as many as the those in the pictures, so hopefully we can still fight this.

Has anyone else had experience with this on a WTF?  Is this Chytrid?

Irregardless, I'll keep you updated with this tobramycin/lamisil treatment.  We are going to start a 10-day lamisil treatment on Igby as well, especially given the chance it is a fungus.  I know she isn't going to be happy being in her own quarantine, but I don't want to risk losing her too.

Also, any suggestions for feeding?  Kibbits is still not eating, so last night I tried to give him some Flukers critical care.  Of course, he refused to open his mouth and not wanting to stress him more, I didn't want to force his him (by handling him and trying to gently open his mouth with the syringe).  Anything more I can do?

Thank you so much for all the support.  We would have surely lost him without you guys!!!  I've heard from three vets already saying they don't know what it is : (

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## John Clare

Where are you reading about these neon green spots?  Chytrid is usually not something you can "see", and the vast majority of cases of pets supposedly dying from Chytrid are bogus.  Post a photograph of the frog please.  In all likelihood, if the frog is sick it has something aside from Chytrid.  A trip to an amphibian-savvy vet will be necessary to treat most amphibian diseases.

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## IgbyKibbits

John - 

We drove our little guy two hours north to see the only vet we could find who would take a look at an amphibian (he usually sees reptiles).  Unfortunately, he didn't know what was wrong and had not seen this before.  He even consulted with a vet network, and could find no information. He is the one who prescribed the tobramycin, and suggested (echoing Kurt) a lamisil bath.  This is where I'm reading about the green spot issue:  http://talkto.thefrog.org/index.php?...2337&page=0#14 

They have a lot of threads about white's showing up with those mysterious mint green spots, with strange, excessive shedding, lethargy and loss of appetite which is exactly what Kibbits is presenting with.  

Here are the a few pictures of Kibbits with his green spots.  He has probably 20 (increased over the last week) tiny spots.  You can see the comparison from the normal white spots to the mint green spots.  Sorry for the lack of better pictures.  I don't want to stress him more by handling him to get better ones.  (Oh, and just a note - he is no longer on substrate.  Those pictures were taken on Saturday prior to moving him to a quarantine tank).

If you have an idea of what it might be, please let me know.  We just want to make sure we are doing the right thing for our little guy!

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## IgbyKibbits

In the "sitting in the pond picture," you can kind of see the comparison with the white to mint green spots.  I know it's hard to tell in these pictures.  I apologize!

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## Kurt

Continue the treatments that you are already doing, but I am wondering if it may be a reaction to the bark substrate, as I have never used it with amphibians.

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## IgbyKibbits

That's what we were thinking too.  Whether it was infected, or a reaction, everything else that we have in the tank, we are meticulous about sterilizing!  Every month, we pull everything out and sterilize, first with a mild bleach wash, then again with Jurassi Clean and extremely hot water.

Since getting the frogs a year ago, we've used T-Rex Coconut Bark (as a filler), and then topped with T-Rex Jungle Bed.  Last time we cleaned (a week ago), we had to use T-Rex Cypress because they were out of Jungle Bed (but we'll get that as soon as it is in).  However, he was showing these symptoms/spots before we made the switch.

What do you think?  What do you suggest instead?  Thanks again!  You guys are truly helping me save this frog.  I literally had a vet say to me (whom I called describing the problem, and asking if she'd see him), "You are unlikely to find a veterinarian in the Midwest that has seen the  specific disease that your pet has given that few owners of amphibians  in this area actually take their sick ones to the vet. "  : ( 

So sad!

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## 1beataway

Wow, I've never seen that before. When you were describing the neon green spots, I thought you meant green blotches on the frogs. I've seen that twice, and each time it seemed to be either stress or a not-quite-so-clean environment. I hope it goes away soon. I would still suggest switching the substrate, but as far as the spots go, I'm no help.

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## IgbyKibbits

Some updated news.  Kibbits took another long trip to see a different vet today.  He just was not responding to the treatment, and not getting better.  I can't bare to see him slowly get worse : (

This vet gave him a radiograph (to see if his bloated belly was fluid or air.  Thank god it was air in the G.I. tract.  That gives a little glimmer of hope that we can get him better).  She took him off the treatment that the other vet started him on, and I bit the bullet and paid for two different cultures of his skin.  Hopefully, we will get the results soon enough to know exactly what we are combating and how to treat it.  She'd not seen these particular spots before either : (

So now we are just doing the antibiotics.  She gave him some fluids and helped me try to hand feed him a special little mix.  Unfortunately, he was NOT having it.  She said that he was the most stubborn little frog that she had seen.  At least he has a little bit of fight still left in him.

So, that's the news.  It's not good and she said that he looked really sick, but hopefully this new treatment will start to work very soon.  We're doing everything we can to save the little guy.  When I tried to feed him tonight, he kept swiping the syringe away.  Poor little Kibbits!!!

Keep him in your thoughts, and if anyone has any suggestions, I'd greatly appreciate it, particularly with the hand feeding.  He just will not open his mouth : (

Oh, and last update:  I brought Igby in as well to get her checked out (especially since we don't know if what is going on with Kibbits is environmental).  She received a perfect bill of health.  So that was a bit of good news on such a sad day : (

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## smt3215

Hey my Whites tree frog recently started to have those green spots appear as well if anyone can help me as to what to do to take care of it that would be a great help. I have read what people have posted above to what they have done but so far that doesn't seem to work so I wasn't sure if there was any new info on what might work thanks. I have included a picture as well so you can see how he looks

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## IgbyKibbits

Smt3215 - 

I looked at your photo and it's so hard to say if it's the same thing as Kibbits because he's so brown usually, that the spots turned up as a sort of mint green, and weren't as "splotchy" as your guy.  I don't know if you read my other posts, but besides having spots, Kibbits stopped eating, became extremely lethargic, wanted to stay in the water time, and seemed to be shedding excessively (and not with the normal shedding patterns of WTFs).  

If your frog has the same symptoms as mine, I definitely suggest taking  him to a vet ASAP.  Kibbits went downhill pretty fast.  : (  Right now,  we are treating him with Baytril Antibiotics (prescribed by the vet),  and that seems to be helping, but it's very touch and go.  

I will say this though:  I had the vet run cultures on his skin to help decipher exactly what it is going on.  Those should be back in 5 to 14 days (hopefully, Kibbits can make it that long).  I will definitely let you know what I find out.

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## 1beataway

I have seen White's with splotchy areas before, and I always thought it was due to stress. I had seen them a few times at work. In fact, a very large green splotchy area on Luigi's head is how I named him (It always looked like he was wearing a cap), but a few weeks after I took him home it was completely gone. I have never seen it again. He was also underweight and didn't look the absolute best. 

Smt3215-It's hard for me to tell if what I see in your picture is the splotchy areas I had described. And I am not completely sure that it is stress related, and someone may tell me I'm wrong, but from my own experiences, that is my best guess.

IgbyKibbits-I hope Kibbits gets better, and please keep us updated on the cultures.

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## IgbyKibbits

Thank you!  I will definitely post as soon as I hear anything!  She said 5 days for one of the cultures, and 14 days for the other!  : (  We're going to do everything we can to keep him going until then!  Thanks so much for keeping Kibbits in your thoughts : ) 

He's definitely a little fighter!

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## Ebony

I hope it all goes well for Kibbits.  :Frog Smile: 

I think with the way you are looking after him and going that extra mile (literally) to ensure he gets all the help he needs. He has the best chance ever and well done to you. :Big Applause:

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## IgbyKibbits

First off - thank you Ebony for your kind words.

We have not gotten the cultures back yet, but today we finally saw some real improvement!  His belly looks white again, and tonight when I was giving him his dose of antibiotics, he went after a cricket (unsuccessfully though; the cricket jumped under the sitting pond).  

BUT, that's the first time we've seen any hunting behavior from him in over two weeks!  It really really gives me hope that we can get him through this waiting period until we definitively know (from the cultures), what is going on.  I just hope it's a sign that whatever has made him so ill isn't kidney or liver failure.  I would think if it was, we wouldn't see any improvement at all!  

So, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.  Tonight he was wide-eyed and happily sitting in his pond, constantly turning around to keep a good eye on the baby crickets in his tank.  : )

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## 1beataway

I'm so glad there's improvement.  :Smile:  And thanks for keeping us updated. I'm rooting for Kibbits.

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## Kurt

That is good news.

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## switchpath

My WTF has recently developed the same exact symptoms as yours along with the mint green spots shown in the picture.  I'm really bummed cause I've had him since he was finger nail sized.  Did he make a full recovery with the Baytril treatment?

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## bshmerlie

Its been awhile but if I remember correctly Kibbits did not make it. She had another frog who had the same thing and I think it was diagnosed as Chytrid. If possible take your frog to the vet asap and see if they can test for chytrid. That way you'll know for sure.  If you have other frogs be sure to follow strict quarantine and contamination precaution procedures.  It takes treatment but your frog should survive if diagnoised properly and treated promptly.

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## switchpath

Wow thank you for your quick response.  That's really sad to hear I was really hopeful that things had turned out well.  Unfortunately right now is about the worse time for me financially since the age of 10 so I really can't take him to the vet.  I have mixed up the Lamasil solution Kurt has suggested and will be starting the treatment tomorrow.  I'm crossing my fingers!  Its too bad that more often than not we have to confront possible death and many times lose frogs to learn a simple lesson :/

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## Leefrogs

I had written someone else who's frog had green spots, he was 69efan69. He also wrote responce on my page. Spots could also be just an irritation also. They shed often, if spots stay I'd worry. But do a search on his posts, but I beileive I wrote him cuz thread had no end result/answer.

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## IgbyKibbits

DEFINITIVE ANSWER:  

It's been a long time since I've written!  I was out of the country for many months working, and then trying to get back in the swing of things.  

Unfortunately, my two original frogs did not make it.  After their passing, we did do a necropsy on the frogs, and they were both diagnosed with lungworms.  Lung worms are a particularly horrible type of parasite that have a cyclical type of presentation in a frog.  In other words, doing routine fecal samples does not always catch them.  Frogs can get lungworms from exposure to already sickened frogs.  We highly suspect that our two frogs got the lungworms before we even purchased them and brought them home from the store.  This is why it is SO important to get your frogs from reputable breeders!!!  

Here's the sad thing:  lungworms are relatively easy to treat when they are caught at an early state.  If you have a vet (if not, I highly recommend finding someone) I suggest doing a round of fecal samples.  We did our fecal samples (for our new frogs) 3 times, in a month...about once every week.  This way, we could try to catch any parasites, no matter the "cycle" they were in.  

Please let me know, if you can, where you got your frog and how old he is.  The irony, that we found out, is that younger frogs can live a long time with lungworms.  Our frogs were almost a year when they passed away!  The reason is because as babies, the lungworms are, in a sense, themselves "babies."  They have not gone through enough cycles to overwhelm the frogs system.  Hence, as they get older, the infestation also gets worse.

The sick frogs symptoms were as follows:  always shedding, bright green spots (this is because of the weakened immune system!!!  Imagine it like people who are very sick, and how they bruise really easily!), coughing type sounds, keeping the mouth open, not eating, lethargy.

As you can imagine, the lungworms make it very difficult for the little frog to breath.

Anyway, that's what happened with our two original frogs.  I am happy to report that we now have three very healthy, very active, very personable frogs that constantly want attention and eat too much :P  Oh, and in case anyone else reads this, we've found that green spots are just that...bruises in a sense.  Just take it from our little frog Ori.  He's constantly sliding among vines, hanging upside down and leaping precariously from branch to branch.  Almost every night he has a different "green spot," but they go away usually within 24 hours...just like a bruise would.

HOPE THIS HELPS!!!

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## switchpath

Thank you for your detailed and informative reply!  I'm sorry to hear your little guys didn't make it; it's amazing how attached we can become to these amphibians!

Its interesting to learn that the neon green spots are just bruises and not a symptom of some sort of infection.  The thing is my case they just showed up about two days ago.  Ten or twenty neon green spots and because of his ailment, what ever it is, he hasn't really moved much at all.  

Thank you for listing the other symptoms your's had.  I'm fairly confident he doesn't have lungworms.  He's had no excessive shedding, coughing sounds or anything funky going on around his mouth like I've seen with other frogs in the past.  Although he doesn't move much, isn't eating and his eyelids are closed most of the time.  In fact he to wipe them with his front foot for them to open.  Interestingly when I move him to his lamisil bath he seems pretty alert and will crawl around on me.  I'm at a loss and unfortunately business has been slow and I have literally zero extra cash to take him to the vet. :/  For not I'm just going to stick to the quarantine and lamisil baths and the occasional food offering.

I actually picked him up at a Petco.  I know I know the large franchise pet stores are horrible with their live animals most of the time, but at this one has a fairly knowledgeable reptile and amphibian employee I've gotten to know.  The first few frogs I had died from some internal parasite and we chalked that up to them being wild caught specimens.  This one came from a batch of captive bread frogs.  If he ends up passing I'm definitely going to hook up with a vet and have the fecal exams done on a regular basis.

My best educated guess at this point is that he's doing poorly because I failed (in spite of all my research) to implement a lighting cycle.  Being in Wisconsin with the wild seasonal swings in day length and indirect sunlight being his main source of determining his day, I think he got stressed out. The stress caused him to stop eating, which depressed his immune system enough for a normally harmless bacteria or fungi to take hold. I'm crossing my fingers at this point kicking myself in the ***!  :Wink:

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## Dog Shrink

I'm sorry to hear about your bout with lung worm.  Isn't it amazing a parasite that usually infects hoses and cattle can affect such a small animal.  My great dane actually once had a bout with lung worm but after a couple rounds of panacure he was better but with some residual lung damage that made him continue to cough until he passed of degeneritive cardio myopthy.  I'm sure some of the coughing at that point could have been contributed to the heart ailment but there was damage from the long term undiagnosed lungworm.  Like you said, cysts aren't shed in every fecal, and it is very difficult to catch them, much like giardia and coccidia, but thankfully (in mammals anyway) treatment is usually effective and reasonable.

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## dumpy

mine has little green specs to am i able to send u a picture also??

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## The Frog Keeper

One of my white's had the green spots and was very lethargic and stopped eating. I really thought she wasn't going to make it. I treated her with methylene blue 2% (from walmart pharmacy it came as 2%) I twisted a piece of paper towel and dipped it in the bottle and then rubbed it all over her back and legs and underneath on her belly. I then put about half an inch of water on the bottom of her quarantine container then dipped another papertowel in methylene blue and then swished that into that water then i put a thick layer of papertowel down so it soaked up the methylene blue/water mix so she would sit on it. Then in her water dish I put tap water treated with the right amounts of aqua plus and cycle(adds good bacteria to water) and then put 10 sprays from a mister of F10 antiseptic (diluted to 0.14ml to 200ml) You can also "wash" a frog in this too without any issues. Have tried this with more sensitive frogs like the red eyed tree frog too. Anyway after about a week she perked up and looked her normal self again with no spots and she became her greedy self again and ate. Then the spots came back a couple of days later so I retreated her again for another 2 weeks and now she is back to normal. Obviously the initial 1 week of treatment wasn't long enough. Sorry the quantities of medication aren't specific and sound like "a little bit of this and a little bit of that" but whatever it worked for my frog... maybe I'm onto something?

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## Carlos

> mine has little green specs to am i able to send u a picture also??


Hello and welcome to FF!  This is a very old thread.  Recommend you start a new one in this section describing your frog and set-up by copying, pasting, and answering the below questions in your thread.  Thank you  :Smile:  !

*Trouble in the Frog Enclosure*

The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.

1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area.
16. How old is the frog
17. How long have you owned him/her
18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
20. How often the frog is handled
21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.

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