# Frogs & Toads > Fire Belly Toads (Bombina) >  Fire-Bellied Toads, Am I doing it right?

## Marinecrab

Hello one and all, I recently decided that I wanted to own some of my first amphibibans. (Sulcata Tortoise Owner for 7 years)
I instantly fell in love with Fire Bellied Toads, I love mine so much but I've had so many questions and concerns that sometimes keep me up at night. 

1. What is that smell?  :Frog Surprise: 

When ever I move the substrate to clean or move around the items in the tank to my liking, I get this disgusting stench of what is a mix of rotting wood and water, is this okay?
(For more information, I use Sphagnum Moss with Zoo med Coco fiber and Zoo med Repti Bark) My theory is that the pooling of water behind the background is the reason for the stench, I've been learning to not mist every other hour and mist after I wake up, and before bed.

2. Home, Or home away from home?

Currently, I have a tropical themed set up with live Petco Bought Tropical plants, I have a log hide, fake hanging plants, soaking/water dish and a few pieces of loose bark, all store bought. I've seen tons of videos of the half land, half water set-up, I'm super nervous and only want the best for my toads health, regardless of the many youtubers with those same setups (know it alls duh! haha) say my setup is fine as long as I keep that water dish large enough to soak in, and keep it fresh of course.. The frogs hang out more around the hide and bark during the day, i've only usually seen them in the dish at night, where they preform a lovely song. What is scarier is even the petstore owners that i've talked to say that either setup is fine, as long as its humid and there is a water part to the tank; be it dish, or body of water.

3. Who is Who?

I've heard that both sexes of these wet dudes 'chirp'? I'm not entirely sure, I've heard that only the males chirp or only the females chirp (Wwwwhhaat?) and of course, they both chirp.
They both chirp at night, doing their.. thing in the water dish. (They do it often, its weird.) I will submit pictures but from what I've read that won't help unless its breeding season.


4. Coexist, or noexist?

I currently have a female Brown Anole who is very, very friendly towards my toads and usually hangs out under and around the fake leaves unless she drinks droplets or sees a cricket, we named her Rita, after my girlfriends mother. She has adjusted very well and has been eating and drinking, even figuring out our feeding times.

We saved a large greenhouse frog (Pretty common in florida, but even the largest are the smallest compared to most frog species.), We don't have a name for him/her yet since we're not sure if its a male or female just because they croak. He has adjusted somewhat well with establishing his nocturnal schedual, only coming out from under the cracks near the hide at night. He has been eating and drinking very well. 

The frogs don't seem interested in them at ALL, zero, nadda. They seem more interested in being closer to each other than interacting with any other of the inhabitants.

5. How often should I feed?

As of right now, I've been feeding them every other day with Small to Medium sized crickets, any improvements or tips or "Hey you're an idiot you're supposed to feed them _____ ___ ___" Would be really appreciated.
Before I forget! Are mealworms or super worms bad for them?

6. The chirpening.

IS it normal for my frogs to be so active during the night, chirping and what looks like doing the nasty?

7. Misting.

I currently mist when the gauge goes below 60% on humidity, is this bad? I try not to over mist as it has caused a water buildup twice.. the smell I theorize it to make is not pleasant.

8. Final.

I know this might be a huge mess for anyone out there who really knows their stuff. I have a store brought book and these are the questions said book did not answer. So please, be easy?



Picture time!

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## ericbrookey

That is definitely not the right setup for them, IMO. They need way more water and should not be housed with other species. The smell is indeed rotting soil from being over misted. Without a drainage layer it is just going to get worse and will breed bacteria unless you replace the substrate regularly. 

FBT will spend 80% of their time  soaking in water. It's how they regulate their body temperature, exercise and hide from predators. Giving them a dirted cage with a small bowl of water is not the same. 

Yes, the calling us normal. You have at least one male.

Feed them every couple of days. Their bellies should not be sunken in on the sides but be a little plump. I feed crickets 2 times a week and a few meal worms, dubai roaches or wax worms as treats. They can go a week without eating and still be ok, not haopy, but will survive. Every 2-3 days is recommended.

Hope that helps.



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jasonm96, Marinecrab

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## Jason

I agree, this set up isn't really suitable for fire bellied toads and I only see one light, when anoles need both a heat/spotlight and UVB. For the fire bellies you need a 10-gallon long as a minimum but a 10-gallon high doesn't offer the same amount of floor space as this. I would even go larger, 6 of mine are kept in a custom 70 x 40 x 40cm tank, which is an ideal size.  They also need more water, around 50-70% and land from driftwood, stacked rocks or a glass divider with substrate. Use water plants such as duckweed, Amazon frogbit, elodea, etc. They also bask often so I use a 25W spotlight over the land and 5% or higher UVB light is also beneficial. After basking if they need to cool down they will go in the water, as Eric pointed out.  Temps should be 70-80F with the warmest at the basking spot and anoles need it warmer. If you want to mix both fire bellies and anoles then a very large tank is needed. It can work, if animals are tested and treated for any disease but there might still be a risk of disease from natural pathogens that either might not be immune to.

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## Marinecrab

I have both a 20 gallon and a 150 gallon sitting in my room vacant, I moved my tortoises out of it when I put them in their enclosure outside.
I will see what I can do with the 20 gallon since its leak proof. Any tips on what I should get?

I will keep you updated with pictures, thanks so much.

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## Marinecrab

Hello all, here is the tank I pulled out, I believe its actually a 40 gallon, sorry for the blur.

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## Jason

40 gallon will work well. My post above kind of gives you an idea on what to get

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Marinecrab

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## ericbrookey

With that size you could get a few more and it will be easier to setup a half land/water scenario for sure. To start, you could fill it with about 4-5 inches of water and pile a bunch of driftwood and rocks so they are partially submerged. Get a sponge filter or small submersible filter in the deepest part. Just make sure they have easy access to get out of the water.

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## Cory

The biggest reason in my opinion you shouldnt mix is the fact the frog is toxic. It maybe mild to us but to the anole it will be stronger due to its not a very big lizard. Fire bellies unlike poison dart frogs are toxic in captivity also so you really dont want them shareing the same water. IMO its not worth the risk of makeing the anole sick.

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## ericbrookey

I would stay away from bark or small gravel as it could become ingested and cause impaction. They are perfectly fine without alot of soil and it's much easier to clean. They just need a few flat areas to rest on out of the water and areas to swim around.

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## Jason

> The biggest reason in my opinion you shouldnt mix is the fact the frog is toxic. It maybe mild to us but to the anole it will be stronger due to its not a very big lizard. Fire bellies unlike poison dart frogs are toxic in captivity also so you really dont want them shareing the same water. IMO its not worth the risk of makeing the anole sick.


They have a different niche, the anole being arboreal and the frog being terrestrial. The anoles will more likely lap up water from leaves or an arboreal dish, rather than going to the floor. So in large enclosures it's possible and many have maintained them together. Having said that, I personally would rather mix USA tree frogs with them than fire-bellies since both are American and the tree frogs ain't poisonous

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## Marinecrab

Hello all, thank you so much for responding, I'm not entirely sure on where to start. I will be making a list of Items I think I need,
 I'm going to be releasing the wild anole back since her leg has entirely healed. I might keep the original tank and set up and just remove the fbts and put them into my 40 gal when it is set up, I'm thinking about making a small family of greenhouse frogs.

I'm assuming its going to look something like this?

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## Jason

That's a pretty cool tank, would make water shallower and more land, though

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## ericbrookey

That is pretty close to an ideal setup for them. Water could be a bit shallower but they love to dive down and swim under water so some deep areas are good. They would be very active in a tank like that. Bit more "wood" partially submerged so the crickets don't just all drown right away.

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## ericbrookey

Here is my setup for ideas. I have since reduced the land portion on the right by half to be able to provide more swimming space. They spend most of their time in the water, or climbing the wood. Occasionally they go up on the soil and stare at me because my desk is right next to it.



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## ericbrookey

> Here is my setup for ideas. I have since reduced the land portion on the right by half to be able to provide more swimming space. They spend most of their time in the water, or climbing the wood. Occasionally they go up on the soil and stare at me because my desk is right next to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk




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jasonm96, Marinecrab

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## Marinecrab

That is a great setup, the smell was horrendous when taking out the rotting coco fiber, but here is what I have them in until the end of the week(Or until the stuff I order comes in), I will post updates daily.




As for the Greenhouse frog I salvaged an old cricket keeper we had sitting around, used sphagnum moss as substrate, wetted it down a bit, added a stick I whittled, a bark piece that I didn't use for the other setup and added a few plants we found him around, he seems more active and happier about his new house.

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## Jason

One of the best FBT set ups I've seen, nice

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## Marinecrab

> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


That is a really nice setup,  How much did it all cost?

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## ericbrookey

> That is a great setup, the smell was horrendous when taking out the rotting coco fiber, but here is what I have them in until the end of the week(Or until the stuff I order comes in), I will post updates daily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the Greenhouse frog I salvaged an old cricket keeper we had sitting around, used sphagnum moss as substrate, wetted it down a bit, added a stick I whittled, a bark piece that I didn't use for the other setup and added a few plants we found him around, he seems more active and happier about his new house.


Looks good for now. If you are going to put driftwood in, use Mopani. it holds up well over time and is smooth. For rocks, nice flat pieces work well for stacking. Throw some java Moss in for them and they will love it.

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Marinecrab

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## ericbrookey

> One of the best FBT set ups I've seen, nice


Thanks jason. If I was doing it over again, I would have put a background in and root some ferns or other plants to it. As of now, I would have to tear it all down to do it and I'm not inclined to just yet. I was hoping the Moss would stay green but that was a pipe dream, I now know. Have pulled it all out and going to replace with new stuff every few months.

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## Marinecrab

> Looks good for now. If you are going to put driftwood in, use Mopani. it holds up well over time and is smooth. For rocks, nice flat pieces work well for stacking. Throw some java Moss in for them and they will love it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


I'm unable to currently get anything until the end of the week or tommorow, But I intend on having a sloped setup, my question is, what are all of those little white balls at the bottom of some setups? Again, this is temporary for the FBTs.

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## Jason

> Thanks jason. If I was doing it over again, I would have put a background in and root some ferns or other plants to it. As of now, I would have to tear it all down to do it and I'm not inclined to just yet. I was hoping the Moss would stay green but that was a pipe dream, I now know. Have pulled it all out and going to replace with new stuff every few months.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Just put an aquarium poster on and cut round the bracket supports, will look fine. no need to tear it down it looks to good. You could try the plant 'mind your own business' , it will probably do better and look the same

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## ericbrookey

> Just put an aquarium poster on and cut round the bracket supports, will look fine. no need to tear it down it looks to good. You could try the plant 'mind your own business' , it will probably do better and look the same


Good idea. I just really wanted a live background to fill in with plants and moss. I thought about velcroing some cork flats to the back wall like puzzle pieces and filling in the gaps with spaghnum. I have seen that done and looks good but I'm not sure if the velcro adhesive would stay due to moisture for very long.

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## Jason

What about a coco panel? You'd need to silicone it in tho, not sure if this would be safe... would be a good question for dart frog keepers as they might have done this. Unless you drain the water and remove the toads and only put them in once the smell has went? Bromeliads can be planted in this

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## Marinecrab

Very interesting guys! I wish to one day have the know-its to do something like that.

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## ericbrookey

> I'm unable to currently get anything until the end of the week or tommorow, But I intend on having a sloped setup, my question is, what are all of those little white balls at the bottom of some setups? Again, this is temporary for the FBTs.


Those are called hydro balls. Clay pellets that are used for a drainage layer. I put about 6 inches of those, held in place by a turtle bridge placed on its side, which allows water to flow through but not frogs. Then I put a mesh layer on top of the balls, then coco fiber. Before that I installed a black PVC tube with holes drilled in the bottom few inches, down through the balls and that is my water intake to my cannister filter. The water comes back in on the other side onto a corner unit I bought at petsmart for a waterfall. They love to sit on it and let water run over them.

Here is what that looks like...










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## Jason

> Very interesting guys! I wish to one day have the know-its to do something like that.


I'm quite new to the bio-active stuff myself, live plants and all, but it's easy enough with all info online and most books will go into detail. It is better this way you never really have to do much cleaning, the tank takes care of itself

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## ericbrookey

> That is a really nice setup,  How much did it all cost?


Hard to say. I got the tank for free, built the stand, so filter and all the setup, maybe $300 - $400 or so. Not including lights, of course. I have used different lighting over the last year to see what works best.

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## ericbrookey

quick question...are you treating their tap water with any conditioner like Prime to remove chlorine?

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## Marinecrab

> quick question...are you treating their tap water with any conditioner like Prime to remove chlorine?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


No, its not tap water, its filtered bottled water.

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## ericbrookey

Personally, I would stay clear of distilled water in the long term. When tap water is properly dechlored, it is actually much better for their soaking because it still contains trace elements that they absorb through the skin and are beneficial. Distilled and purified water has had all of that removed and can actually be a detriment to frogs that like to soak as it deprives them of the naturally occurring minerals. Either leave it out and open for a couple days or treat with Prime.

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## ericbrookey

> What about a coco panel? You'd need to silicone it in tho, not sure if this would be safe... would be a good question for dart frog keepers as they might have done this. Unless you drain the water and remove the toads and only put them in once the smell has went? Bromeliads can be planted in this


I have also considered this. Not a big fan of the look as it seems a bit like wallpaper, too uniform. But it's definitely an option. I think if I did this I would have to remove them for about a week and that is doable. I have a spare 40g breeder I could use. I just like the natural look of the cork flats but getting them attached is the challenge as they aren't completely "flat".

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## Marinecrab

> Personally, I would stay clear of distilled water in the long term. When tap water is properly dechlored, it is actually much better for their soaking because it still contains trace elements that they absorb through the skin and are beneficial. Distilled and purified water has had all of that removed and can actually be a detriment to frogs that like to soak as it deprives them of the naturally occurring minerals. Either leave it out and open for a couple days or treat with Prime.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk



I will keep this in mind when I move them to their 40 gallon.

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## Cory

> What about a coco panel? You'd need to silicone it in tho, not sure if this would be safe... would be a good question for dart frog keepers as they might have done this. Unless you drain the water and remove the toads and only put them in once the smell has went? Bromeliads can be planted in this


  If your going to silicone anything into your viv/terrarium that's going to require a nice bit of silicone you will have to remove your live plants. The fumes from the silicone while curing will kill them. Jason remember awhile back when your green tree frog went behind your background and we were trying to figure out a way to solve it and we thought of using silicone to attach it. I remember Bill came to rescue and told us not to unless everything was taken out because of the fumes killing everything. And Bill makes some of the nicest vivs for dart frogs I have seen and his knowledge of plants is amazeing, just thought I would throw that out there.

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jasonm96

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## ericbrookey

Couple other things you will want to purchase. A digital hygrometer to measure temp and humidity, the manual ones are highly inaccurate, a temp probe for the water and make sure the cage has a secure screen top as they are notorious escape artists. With this type of setup it's not necessary to mist to keep the humidity up. I do for my plants but only every so often. Humidity should be easily maintained at 60-70% which is fine for them. If you use a glass top the humidity will range much higher and you will constantly have condensation on the glass.

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## ericbrookey

> If your going to silicone anything into your viv/terrarium that's going to require a nice bit of silicone you will have to remove your live plants. The fumes from the silicone while curing will kill them. Jason remember awhile back when your green tree frog went behind your background and we were trying to figure out a way to solve it and we thought of using silicone to attach it. I remember Bill came to rescue and told us not to unless everything was taken out because of the fumes killing everything. And Bill makes some of the nicest vivs for dart frogs I have seen and his knowledge of plants is amazeing, just thought I would throw that out there.


Good point and I remember that. Others have told me the same thing. I think LilyPad killed all her plants once, too. My thought was to use as little as possible and run a fan directly into the tank to help reduce fumes. It wouldn't be too hard to remove the plants and probably the safest move.

Sorry to thread jack Marinecrab!

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## Cory

> Couple other things you will want to purchase. A digital hygrometer to measure temp and humidity, the manual ones are highly inaccurate, a temp probe for the water and make sure the cage has a secure screen top as they are notorious escape artists. With this type of setup it's not necessary to mist to keep the humidity up. I do for my plants but only every so often. Humidity should be easily maintained at 60-70% which is fine for them. If you use a glass top the humidity will range much higher and you will constantly have condensation on the glass.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


  I would have to agree that these little guys are great at escaping. When I first got mine a few years ago I didn't have the right size lid so I had to use one that was bigger then the tank for abit so there was a small gap in the back. Didn't think anything of it till I went to check on them one morning and 2 of the 4 were missing, one was in a plastic grocery bag and I found him because I heard him trying to get out of it. While putting him back the other little bugger came hoping into the frog room and he had so much dog fur on him he looked like a living dust bunny. L.O.L  Gave him a nice bath and a good cleaning and back he went, and I own a Siberian husky so you can just imagine how much fur he had on him. I vacuum everyday and still have a hard time keeping up with the constant shedding. And ya sorry for not staying on topic. Cheers and I hope everything ends up working out for you.

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## Jason

> If your going to silicone anything into your viv/terrarium that's going to require a nice bit of silicone you will have to remove your live plants. The fumes from the silicone while curing will kill them. Jason remember awhile back when your green tree frog went behind your background and we were trying to figure out a way to solve it and we thought of using silicone to attach it. I remember Bill came to rescue and told us not to unless everything was taken out because of the fumes killing everything. And Bill makes some of the nicest vivs for dart frogs I have seen and his knowledge of plants is amazeing, just thought I would throw that out there.


Yeah I wasn't sure on this

Oh I forgot that, would have been a while back

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## Marinecrab

I check this thread every four hours or so, you guys are going all different directions its great, I'm learning; but can we stay on topic?

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## Marinecrab

> Couple other things you will want to purchase. A digital hygrometer to measure temp and humidity, the manual ones are highly inaccurate, a temp probe for the water and make sure the cage has a secure screen top as they are notorious escape artists. With this type of setup it's not necessary to mist to keep the humidity up. I do for my plants but only every so often. Humidity should be easily maintained at 60-70% which is fine for them. If you use a glass top the humidity will range much higher and you will constantly have condensation on the glass.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Thank you, I noticed this with the manual gages that came with my setup, I will look for one at the store, if not found I will order online.

Goodnight all, I will post an update around 12 tommorow with what i've bought from the store.

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## Jason

Haha yes sorry! Here's a pic of my set up for ideas, thrown together and easy to do upload image

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## Marinecrab

Hello all! Here is an update on my frogs!

I intend on cleaning the water right after I set up my shopping list. Today is feeding day and I will most likely be moving them to a special feeding tub to make sure they eat.

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## Jason

If you put it on the land part they'll take them into the water to eat in no tine

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## Marinecrab

> If you put it on the land part they'll take them into the water to eat in no tine


Will do!

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## ericbrookey

I would lower the water level an inch during this interim period. Drop the cricks on both land pieces and they will find them. They will even eat them from the water if they spy movement.

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## Marinecrab

> I would lower the water level an inch during this interim period. Drop the cricks on both land pieces and they will find them. They will even eat them from the water if they spy movement.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


They ate 4 out of the six crickets I put out. I have just ordered most of the supplies that you guys have suggested.

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## Marinecrab

Hey guys, something really worrying has been happening. 

I've noticed they aren't as active as they were when they were in the first setup I had, and aren't really moving around as much AT ALL. I took them out and they barely responded to my fingers being near them. 
Are they okay? The hang out the most around the land portion as of now.

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## privet01

When my FBT's spend more time on land, then I know my water quality is getting bad.  Particularly the ammonia levels in the water.  Never had them act sluggish though.

If you suspect the water quality, you might get one of those aquarium water test kits and check it.  

My recommendation for water is bottled spring water.  I use distilled because it's a little cheaper, but I have a large  area of natural gravel that I believe replaces the minerals that distilled water does not have.  I wouldn't use distilled in a viv that doesn't have something to replace the lost minerals.

If you use tap water, be sure to let it sit a couple days so it can de-chlorinate itself.  Again I'd recommend you test it too before using as many municipal water supplies are very alkaline/high pH.  I don't adjust my water with chemicals either.  I just replace it.

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## Marinecrab

> When my FBT's spend more time on land, then I know my water quality is getting bad.  Particularly the ammonia levels in the water.  Never had them act sluggish though.
> 
> If you suspect the water quality, you might get one of those aquarium water test kits and check it.  
> 
> My recommendation for water is bottled spring water.  I use distilled because it's a little cheaper, but I have a large  area of natural gravel that I believe replaces the minerals that distilled water does not have.  I wouldn't use distilled in a viv that doesn't have something to replace the lost minerals.
> 
> If you use tap water, be sure to let it sit a couple days so it can de-chlorinate itself.  Again I'd recommend you test it too before using as many municipal water supplies are very alkaline/high pH.  I don't adjust my water with chemicals either.  I just replace it.


I'm going to change the water right now and use spring water.

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## ericbrookey

They are probably just stressed and also just ate. You have moved them into 3 completely different environments in a short time period. Handling them stresses them out, IMO. You should do it as little as possible.

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jasonm96

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## Marinecrab

> They are probably just stressed and also just ate. You have moved them into 3 completely different environments in a short time period. Handling them stresses them out, IMO. You should do it as little as possible.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


I don't handle them unless I have too. I changed the water and they seem to be much more happier, I'm glad my shipment is coming in six more days.

Thank you all.

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## ericbrookey

> I don't handle them unless I have too. I changed the water and they seem to be much more happier, I'm glad my shipment is coming in six more days.
> 
> Thank you all.


That's good to hear. Wasn't that pretty fresh water though? Seems it was newly put in the tank when you moved them right? It did look a bit hazy but it will take much longer for it to foul. Even without a filter. Either way, glad they are perking up.

 What's your water temp btw?


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## Marinecrab

> That's good to hear. Wasn't that pretty fresh water though? Seems it was newly put in the tank when you moved them right? It did look a bit hazy but it will take much longer for it to foul. Even without a filter. Either way, glad they are perking up.
> 
>  What's your water temp btw?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk




70-80, I changed it before going to bed and they're more active and deff swim alot more. That water was tap, I was told against using bottled water, then against using tap.
When I set up my waterfall filter I plan on using tap water and using a dechlorinator, letting that run for a few hours.

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## Jason

Tap water that you can drink should be fine if treated but you also have to let it sit out for 24 hours so the gas bubbles go away

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## Marinecrab

> Tap water that you can drink should be fine if treated but you also have to let it sit out for 24 hours so the gas bubbles go away


I will be keeping this in mind.

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## ericbrookey

> Tap water that you can drink should be fine if treated but you also have to let it sit out for 24 hours so the gas bubbles go away


If you treat with Prime there is no need to let it sit out. I do water changes direct from the tap and just put the Prime directly into the tank as it fills. For smaller volume changes you can just have some pretreated water in a bucket or 5 gal water bottle ready to go so that the Prime has a chance to work in.

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## Jason

Aquarium conditioner products treat chlorine, but what about the gases though? Don't know if fire-bellies are at risk of gas bubble disease, though, I do think it's still a good idea to let it set for a few hours so the water goes to the same temperature of the water that' in the tank

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## Marinecrab

> Aquarium conditioner products treat chlorine, but what about the gases though? Don't know if fire-bellies are at risk of gas bubble disease, though, I do think it's still a good idea to let it set for a few hours so the water goes to the same temperature of the water that' in the tank


Hey guys, thanks for responding, I will be using bottled water and conditioner just to be safe,

Should I rinse out ever item I've gotten @ mail? Including the gravel and substrate?

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## ericbrookey

> Aquarium conditioner products treat chlorine, but what about the gases though? Don't know if fire-bellies are at risk of gas bubble disease, though, I do think it's still a good idea to let it set for a few hours so the water goes to the same temperature of the water that' in the tank


It definitely doesn't hurt to let tap sit out but I've never heard of any problems with not, if using Prime. They aren't as susceptible as fish and I do the same thing with all of my fish tanks, without issue. Getting it close to temp is always a good idea but as long as it's within a few degrees they will be fine.

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jasonm96

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## ericbrookey

> Hey guys, thanks for responding, I will be using bottled water and conditioner just to be safe,
> 
> Should I rinse out ever item I've gotten @ mail? Including the gravel and substrate?


No real need to use conditioner with bottles water but it can't hurt. What kind of conditioner did you get? Some treat chlorine and some just provide a slime coat, mostly beneficial for fish.

You should always rinse gravel before use to get rid of dust and particulates and rinse any decor and wood. No need to boil or bake store bought wood. Only if you got it from the outside.

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## Marinecrab

> No real need to use conditioner with bottles water but it can't hurt. What kind of conditioner did you get? Some treat chlorine and some just provide a slime coat, mostly beneficial for fish.
> 
> You should always rinse gravel before use to get rid of dust and particulates and rinse any decor and wood. No need to boil or bake store bought wood. Only if you got it from the outside.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk



Sorry! I've been working super hard this week, my supplies come in on thursday and the current tank i'm using is getting replaced tommorow by a 55 gallon that was used. It'll be great sinces its only 50$ with the stand,cover and tank.

I'm ordered a medium bottle of Tetra AquaSafe Plus with BioExtract,

I will post a picture of the setup tommorow once I get it cleaned.

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## Marinecrab

Hello everyone, I have finished building my setup!

The full View, I'm going to order another reptisun since my older bulb broke this morning...  :Frown: 




Here is the water side of the aquarium, not entirely 50/50 but I bought a few floating items they can rest on, I plan on using the floating island as a feeder island for the crickets.




Heres the land side, I reused a few items from my older setup after washing them off, I'm really enjoying my waterfall filter



Here is a better shot!







Roughly spent about 450 on the setup all together, with a few free items here and there, got the aquarium for 50 bucks. With stand and screentop, was dirty but in the end I cleaned it and it looked brand new..

Questions..

What fish should I put with them?

What live plants, both aquatic and nonaquatic plants are the best for these toads?


I guess there is a happy ending to this mess-up!


Future notes to everyone, never base your setup on big petchain caresheets!

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## Jason

This isn't perfect, good stuff!!

I wouldn't put fish in, the volume of water isn't enough, the toxins from the toads will probably be concentrated. 

Some great plants for land and in water are pothos or cyperus plant. Elodea, duckweed and Amazon frogbit in the water. I think you'd probably have to increase the light, though. I would just keep it artificial just now to save the hassle. 

Pet shops usually have **** advice and barely keep their animals long term enough to their care.

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## Marinecrab

> This isn't perfect, good stuff!!
> 
> I wouldn't put fish in, the volume of water isn't enough, the toxins from the toads will probably be concentrated. 
> 
> Some great plants for land and in water are pothos or cyperus plant. Elodea, duckweed and Amazon frogbit in the water. I think you'd probably have to increase the light, though. I would just keep it artificial just now to save the hassle. 
> 
> Pet shops usually have **** advice and barely keep their animals long term enough to their care.




Do you mean isn't or is? Haha.

And I read the guppies really are good for FBTs but any other fish usually has weird buildups after awhile from the toxins, don't want that. But for now, I want to add two more FBTS and let them adjust before making any changes.

And I'll deff be increasing the light by adding one more uvb lamp.

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## Jason

Autocorrect lol!!

They'll probably just eat them and remember fish are really bad for disease 

You're better off with a lamp designed to grow plants, the ones used for fish tanks in combination with any UVB you're using

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## ericbrookey

Agreed, that IS a nice setup for them. They should do very well in there. Couple of points..

1. They will eat the guppies so if you use them, be prepared for that. The guppies will help cycle the filter but it will take a long time wit such a small bioload. Over the next few months, make sure to check for ammonia buildup and do water changes accordingly.

2. You can use java moss, frog bit or ducked but be prepared for an explosion of the frog bit and duckweed. Once it is introduced it will be near impossible to remove. Water lettuce works well but has a tendency to die off and needs to be replaced. Pothos will grow well but needs to be rooted in something and has a tendency to melt when exposed directly to water.

3. Make sure they have some hiding spots, plant cover, etc. It gives them a sense of security.

4. If you can, put a few pieces of wood that extend up high above the water line, they will love to climb on them.

Overall, nice job!

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## Marinecrab

> Agreed, that IS a nice setup for them. They should do very well in there. Couple of points..
> 
> 1. They will eat the guppies so if you use them, be prepared for that. The guppies will help cycle the filter but it will take a long time wit such a small bioload. Over the next few months, make sure to check for ammonia buildup and do water changes accordingly.
> 
> 2. You can use java moss, frog bit or ducked but be prepared for an explosion of the frog bit and duckweed. Once it is introduced it will be near impossible to remove. Water lettuce works well but has a tendency to die off and needs to be replaced. Pothos will grow well but needs to be rooted in something and has a tendency to melt when exposed directly to water.
> 
> 3. Make sure they have some hiding spots, plant cover, etc. It gives them a sense of security.
> 
> 4. If you can, put a few pieces of wood that extend up high above the water line, they will love to climb on them.
> ...






 " 3. Make sure they have some hiding spots, plant cover, etc. It gives them a sense of security.

4. If you can, put a few pieces of wood that extend up high above the water line, they will love to climb on them. "


Good to see you again, man!

In response to #3 and #4, I have both of these. They seem to be enjoying their new home alot.

As for #1, I might consider waiting for the filter to establish itself before adding guppies. But i'm fine if they eat the guppies. _​1_

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## ericbrookey

With just the frogs in there I'm not sure the tank will ever cycle. They do tend to poop in the water but compared to cycling with fish the bioload will be small. Just watch the params and make sure ammonia, nitrites and nitrates don't get too high.

You will get moss tracked in the water which may help towards the cycle when it breaks down.

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## Marinecrab

> With just the frogs in there I'm not sure the tank will ever cycle. They do tend to poop in the water but compared to cycling with fish the bioload will be small. Just watch the params and make sure ammonia, nitrites and nitrates don't get too high.
> 
> You will get moss tracked in the water which may help towards the cycle when it breaks down.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk



Hmmm, I will keep this in mind.

Should I add a bubbler if I plan on keeping fish?

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## ericbrookey

> Hmmm, I will keep this in mind.
> 
> Should I add a bubbler if I plan on keeping fish?


Not necessary. It will help speed up the cycle if you are doing a fishless cycle but I wouldn't do that with the frogs already in there. Way too high ammonia content is needed for that and will not be good for them. Just get an API Master Test kit and test every week until you establish a cycle then every month or so before water changes. With this type of setup you can probably get away with a 50% wc every 2 weeks once established, occassionally vac the gravel, and they should be fine.

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## Marinecrab

> Not necessary. It will help speed up the cycle if you are doing a fishless cycle but I wouldn't do that with the frogs already in there. Way too high ammonia content is needed for that and will not be good for them. Just get an API Master Test kit and test every week until you establish a cycle then every month or so before water changes. With this type of setup you can probably get away with a 50% wc every 2 weeks once established, occassionally vac the gravel, and they should be fine.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk



Hmmmm, I'll see if I can get a cheap vac kit, but I will be getting water test kits.

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## ericbrookey

> Hmmmm, I'll see if I can get a cheap vac kit, but I will be getting water test kits.


I just recently bought a vac that has a fairly thin tube with a manual squeeze pump on it. I love it because it can get in the crevices between all the dw and decor and the manual pump keeps the frog toxin laced water out of my mouth lol

I went with sand in my setup as it seems easier to keep clean but gravel is fine. As long as it's not up top where they might ingest it accidentally.

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## Marinecrab

> I just recently bought a vac that has a fairly thin tube with a manual squeeze pump on it. I love it because it can get in the crevices between all the dw and decor and the manual pump keeps the frog toxin laced water out of my mouth lol
> 
> I went with sand in my setup as it seems easier to keep clean but gravel is fine. As long as it's not up top where they might ingest it accidentally.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


Once I get plants I plan on mixing and using the sand to anchor the plants in the water.

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## ericbrookey

> Once I get plants I plan on mixing and using the sand to anchor the plants in the water.


You might consider some Dracaenea. It does well partially submerged and as long as you support the stalks in gravel they will hold up pretty well. It's the tall plants I have in mine left of middle. Not very broad leaves and the roots don't go too crazy but it looks good in bunches and will provide decent shade. It needs something to keep it upright though so I positioned mine between wood for support. Good plant for the height of a 55g.

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## ericbrookey

how are your little guys doing in their new home?

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## Marinecrab

> how are your little guys doing in their new home?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


We lost one, he got out after my girlfriend forgot to close the top properly, they are doing great, we have a total of four now. I've added a bunch of live plants, a new filter, two plecos and ten tetras and they're doing great.

I switched them over to medium crickets and they're eating more often than they did with small.

Now!! Before you say!! Yes, I do realize that there are some failures with mixing, but there are also huge success stories with mixing as well. I've taken it slowly with adding fish and plants. And so far, i've had sucess

Other than that, they're doing hell of a lot better, i've a few pictures i've taken.


I have a question though, I read online that my water is being cloudy from a bacteria bloom.
Its been little over a week and i'm still seeing stringy strands of white algea and slime. Is this Okay?

Also, how often should I feed these guys and how much? 

What about a superworm dish, I know meal worms are to thick but, how about a superworm filled dish?

I'll send pictures as soon my phone charges, I used it up from work.

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## ericbrookey

I don't think that's taking it slowly with adding fish. Your tank is nowhere near cycled and those plecos will have a big bioload, which with that small volume of water, you will see the ammonia rise rapidly and the tetras will suffer unless you are monitoring it very well. Water changes are also going to be rough as ypu cant take more than a few gallons out at a time.

Either way, not the stocking choice I would have made but it's your tank. What kind of plecos are they?

That does suck about the eacapee. Hard lesson to learn. 

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## ericbrookey

Food size should typically be no larger than the space between their eyes..5-6 small or 3-4 medium crickets a couple times a week is fine. Small meal worms are fine..just don't let one get all the worms, cause they will gorge.

As for algae, it's typical in a new tank to get diatom blooms. It should go away. Stringy algae either means too high light or nutrients or not enough filtration. Pictures would help. You will get it also on new wood that is constantly wet and it will dissipate.


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## Marinecrab

> Food size should typically be no larger than the space between their eyes..5-6 small or 3-4 medium crickets a couple times a week is fine. Small meal worms are fine..just don't let one get all the worms, cause they will gorge.
> 
> As for algae, it's typical in a new tank to get diatom blooms. It should go away. Stringy algae either means too high light or nutrients or not enough filtration. Pictures would help. You will get it also on new wood that is constantly wet and it will dissipate.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


I can always move the Tetras into a different tank until then, I understand the bioload of the plecos, I just want them in there for the first few weeks to help with algae.

As for feeding and the pictures, I do it every other day. 


Here are the pictures.



Still working on getting UVB





This stuff seems to never come off, any suggestions? This is a used tank, I cleaned it to the bone. Looked like it sat in someones attic for awhile, had cobwebs and everything. I resealed it.



He really seems to be enjoying his new home.

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## ericbrookey

Pics aren't coming up for me for some reason. How big are the plecos? I have seen instances where a toad tried to eat a pleco and it got stuck. The toad didn't make it, so be careful. It was a big toad, or bullfrog, can't remember, but if the FBT see it they may go for it.

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## Marinecrab

> Pics aren't coming up for me for some reason. How big are the plecos? I have seen instances where a toad tried to eat a pleco and it got stuck. The toad didn't make it, so be careful. It was a big toad, or bullfrog, can't remember, but if the FBT see it they may go for it.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk



Currently, I've only seen him come out of his log during the night. He's maybe an inch or so.

I feel like i've seen that before...

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## ericbrookey

Do you know what type of pleco?

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## Marinecrab

I believe he is a bristle nose, I will go back and check on my way to get the gravel vac and the UV sterilizer.

Here is an update on the water quality, I took the fish out, and washed the gravel from inside the tank. Was a very long process but its more clear and looks better. The fish are doing great!

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