# General Topics > Vivarium, Terrarium & Enclosure Discussion >  Terrarium waterfall

## dani333

*Im setting up a new terrarium for my red eye tree frog the size is 18x18x18 inches and i wanted to add a waterfall. I was thinking about the zoo med naturalistic waterfall that you create your self where the water runs threw hydro balls and they recommend a layer of eco earth on top. But Im worried about cleanliness, how would I clean the terrarium and how often. Right now Im using paper towels because it was a baby and clean up was easy. I have all fake plants now should i get live plants (what kind). or do you recommend a different waterfall set up. Also how many red eyes can I put in my set up. Thanks*

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## Kurt

Two or three, maybe.

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## hype28

I have the same tank. Beware the natural waterfall kit! I followed the directions and ended up with brown water that turned black that fostered fungus. I am still working on a solution to the brown water issue!

Right now I have 1/4 of the tank with rocks, a divider and the rest with the hydroballs and substrate so there is a pond on one side. I have a 501 Zoomed Filter, but still brown water! (photo attached - before the water turned brown again)

My next bright idea? I am putting in the Trex Foam Log Landing for a 20 gallon aquarium Divider and *Filter between the pond and the other stuff, doing a very deep layer of rock on the opposite side, and am cutting out the coconut fiber altogether. I've not yet decided what I will replace it with, but probably larger coconut fiber pieces that can be better rinsed out. My hope is the rock on the opposite side will be so high that leaching will be far less likely!

If that does not work, I may try a revised version of another post and use a plastic sheet and silicon to make a water-tight seal between the sections. I don't want to do this, as it will be difficult to get that out if I ever want to change the layout again, but we shall see how succesfull my foam log divider idea is! The foam goes in Friday evening.

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## Iceni

I was thinking if i went the exo terra route of having the bottom of the tank drilled so i can use a sump tank like they use with a Reef setup. 

The setup with a drilled tank would be pretty simple, Hole in the bottom of the tank with a sink plug fitting. Short tube out of the bottom of that with a sock of fine material to catch debris. All into a smaller slave tank with a high pressure pump in it. 

Back in the main tank you would have to raise the Substrate on a fine mesh with a frame. Other than that you would be free to invent the interior without the need to make allowances for pumps.

As for the plastic divide idea I've done a few now. They work very very well, But make sure you use the correct silicone, and if your holding a large volume of water back then brace it correctly. To remove a plastic divide done in this way you twist the divide out then cut the silicone off the glass with a scalpel or stanley knife blade. The only hard part is getting silicone off the other silicone, but in most cases it should just pull away if your gentle. A word of warning, Cut the corners on the plastic divide so they avoid the tanks silicone seal all together, then Back fillt he hole with a good thickness bead of silicone. If you cut away at the tank silicone thinking you need them corners to be tight you may end up with a leaking tank!!!

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## Tropicok

I bought the zoo med waterfall kit but haven't used it yet.  It's puzzling why the water is brown unless it's from the dark hydroballs included.  There are clay colored ones which I know do not cause anything but clear water.  Can't imagine the pump, tubing and elbow thingee would cause discoloration.   And I'm like you, I don't like to make things permanent because I know I'll want to change it at some point.  Looks like it's gonna be unavoidable tho'.   It's that the fun of this hobby?  Otherwise we'd be just staring at the same old plants and frog forever.   :Frog Smile:

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## Kurt

The coconut bedding turns the water reddish brown. I have never know it to be a problem however.

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## hype28

It is definitely a problem with a waterfall. The brown/black water plus high humidity and splashing = a film of brown all over the glass and everything in the terrarium that looks awful.  I do not know how the fungus come to play and it may have been a coincidence, but I can't help but believe that the filthy habitat was conducive to letting it grow.  The hydroballs are supposed to act as a natural filter, so I gave it three months and it was unbearable.  It has been going with the filtration system for three weeks and it is still growing darker, which is why I am up for a redesign!

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## John Clare

The hydroballs act as a biological filter for nitrogenous waste - they don't filter the particulate matter in the water, which is what the red material is (from the coconut fibre).  Whatever way you've set up your substrate is incorrect - if you do it right, the coconut fibre is not sitting in water, but above it.  That way it's always moist but not soaking in water.  The water in the base of my dartfrog terraria is only slightly tinted, and the older terraria have crystal clear, untinted water.

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## Johnny O. Farnen

Some of that coarse filter foam for aquariums can solve your issues. A block of this open celled foam in front of the intake keeps the coir from gumming up the works. A piece of it on the outtake disturbs the flow just enough to reduce or eliminate splashing. Another trick you can use specific to your enclosure is a wad of Java moss or a block of the filter foam in the water feature slightly above the surface placed so that the waterfall pours on to it will kill your splashes too.

Yet another trick you can employ is a bit of work with some more ledges in your waterfall to keep the water from dropping so far before hitting the surface, thus splashing.

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## Miss Toady

Hi I'm a newbie. and was given a tank and filter. I use the fish tank filter as a water fall. I extended the inlet tube to reach the water and the outlet water trickles through the fly wire at the top onto some small  rocks Ive angled to reduce splashing.
This also cleans the water.

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## Tropicok

I'm gonna try my Zoo Med waterfall kit anyway.  I will have the hydroballs on  bottom, piece of coarse foam around the pump, pieces of plastic ceiling grid making a platform and slanted for a pool, next will be screening, then coco fiber or orchid bark, and some rocks.  That should keep the substrate from getting into the water below.  
My question:  how to attach the waterfall tubing....to the backside of a background or directly on the glass?    I need some pictures to reference.

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## Kurt

Miss Toady, I would either cover up or remove the gravel to prevent accident ingestion of it. Gravel can cause fatal impactions in frogs.

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## Miss Toady

Kurt Thanks for the tip re the gravel .

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## Kurt

You're welcome.

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## hype28

If you have a foam backround you can put the tubing behind it and cut a hole in the top for it to poke through and a notch at the bottom for the pump if it is a submerged pump  You could also use suction cups to secure it to the edges.  I have the external filtration system now and the intake tube isn't technically secured to anything and seems to be doing fine and doesn't look too weird.  It is much easier to clean this way!

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## dani333

Thanks for all the advice, I was reading in a book that you can use an air conditioner filter between the hydro balls and soil, so that the dirt wont get into the water. What do you guys think about that? also is 100% organic soil okay for the frogs & to grow live plants? Thanks

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## Mcbobs

Air conditioning filters would work, but in my opinion, they can get clogged with the dirt rather fast and stop letting water pass through to the false bottom. 

If I were you, I would just get a little bit of window screen or weed block from the hardware store and use that instead. It lets water pass much more freely to the hydroton and seems to have a lot less problems.

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## John Clare

I second what McBobs said.  What I do is get normal black fibre glass window screen and lay it on the hydroballs.  Then I put a layer of coconut husk (the big chips) over that so that it acts as an extra guard to prevent soil particles getting down into the hydroballs.  I just add enough coconut husk to obscure the screening.

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## Tropicok

I had my tank set up today with the waterfall tubing hidden behind a very creative Great Stuff foam background and the water falling down an intricate curved crevice with small plant holes carved into the foam.  I have the plastic grid cut and hinged to create a pond in the front side of the tank.  I finally found some rubber corks for the drain hole which came pre-drilled in the tank. (I don't recommend drilling a hole in the bottom of a glass tank because it can crack easily).  I drove across town to buy some tropical plants which I found had gone up in price .44.  OK, whew!, ready to plant when I thought I'm gonna test it one more time with water in it.  Of course, it leaked from the crack I had caused....from the drain hole and maybe even across the front of the tank.  Long story short, I have disposable plastic gloves this time for the silicone repair I have to do.    ALWAYS TEST TO SEE IF YOU HAVE LEAKS BEFORE PLANTING.

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## Johnny O. Farnen

Rather than AC filters, I prefer to use the egg crate style light diffuser panels  (those grids covering fluorescent lights in offices and classrooms) cut to size. I then use plastic needle point mesh over top of that and mount the assembly on risers made from PVC pipe unions. This makes for a great drainage layer that can be accessed with a siphon to drain out water if a PVC pipe riser is hidden in the corner.

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## laceface

Does anyone have a picture of them using the egg crates? im pretty confused on how to set it up.  :Confused:

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## daziladi

Ah, love the plastic needlepoint mesh idea! Hated the thought of using metal screen and worried about rusting.

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## Kurt

Here a picture I found at http://www.vivariumforum.com/

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## Johnny O. Farnen

There is also a photograph in this article (by one of our members here at Frog Forum) that shows an additional method.

Caudata Culture Articles - Vivarium Substrates

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