# Frogs & Toads > Pacman Frogs >  Worried about my pac man

## RobF353

Ok, I'll start off by saying I bought my pac man almost 3 weeks ago from a reptile show. I got a small albino one, which the breeder told me was about 3 weeks old. 

I have him in a plastic tank and had moss on the bottom and a water bowl. I would mist the tank once a day. The frog would eat maybe every other day, then last week he ate 2-3 days in a row. I have been feeding him crickets and wax worms. 

After that 2-3 day eating in a row, he stopped eating for maybe 2-3 days. 

I went to feed him yesterday. He was sitting in the corner facing the corner. I picked him up and placed him in the middle. After doing that, he went stiff and stretched his back legs all the way out. I panicked and removed the moss from the bottom, cleaned the tank and placed a paper towel on the bottom. I placed the frog back in and he seemed fine, he was jumping all over. 

I just went to check on him now and he did the same stiff/stretching thing. He snapped out of it and ate a worm after. 

Am I doing something wrong? Do they not like to be picked up/disturbed? 

I can get pictures if needed. Please help!

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## Poly

Okay, so I'm letting you know, I have no experience with pacs, but a lot of info from the great people on this site.

They don't like to be picked up, it stresses them, and this is probably why, he is doing what he's doing.

IMO, if you've been keeeping the proper care of the tank, water, and feeding routine, I don't think it has anything to do with the tank.

Someone on here is going to respond (probably BG) who knows pacs like the backs of their hand, they'll help you out!  :Smile: 

All the best,

~Royce

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## BG

Can you give us some more info.   Like temps.  In your case air/water. Even humidity. I hope he didn't eat some moss. If they get stressed by some reason,lets say getting picked up or handled extremely at that size. It  lowers their immune system. Do you use light,calcium with or with out D 3. Do you dust with vitamins. He needs time to digest. So let me have all the stats. Btw welcome to the forum.

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## RobF353

> Can you give us some more info.   Like temps.  In your case air/water. Even humidity. I hope he didn't eat some moss. If they get stressed by some reason,lets say getting picked up or handled extremely at that size. It  lowers their immune system. Do you use light,calcium with or with out D 3. Do you dust with vitamins. He needs time to digest. So let me have all the stats. Btw welcome to the forum.


Temps are 80-85 F during the day, 70-75 F at night. Humidity is usually around 80%. I do not use a light. I was using calcium, not sure which one though. 

Now that you mention he may have ate moss. When he went stiff, he kind of rolled over and I saw his belly was a little dark. Could it be the dark spot I saw was actually moss he ate?

I am going to the pet shop later for new calcium. What kind should I get? Also, is a light necessary?

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## BG

No light. Get some vitamins as well.  What is the water temp. 70 is to low for babies. They  need warmth when they are young. As they gst older they are hardy.

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## RobF353

What kind of vitamins should I get? So, I need vitamins and a calcium?

What do you mean by water temp? I just put in coconut fiber as my substrate.

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## BG

> What kind of vitamins should I get? So, I need vitamins and a calcium?
> 
> What do you mean by water temp? I just put in coconut fiber as my substrate.


 Oh OK  good. Offer him small dusted crickets every night. If he don't take them fine continue the next night.

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## RobF353

Just got back from the pet shop. 

I bought a vitamin powder with D3 and a calcium powder with D3. 

How often should I use each of them?

Also, my frog pooped a little, but is still acting strange. If he swallowed some moss, how long does it take to pass? Is there anything I can do other than wait?

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## RobF353

I have been reading around and it sounds like my frog may have Toxic Out Syndrome. 

This is an explanation I found:

Because frogs absorb water through their skin from the substrate of the  water bowl, you want to ensure that the water is changed frequently. If  you leave foul water in the water, the toxins can be absorbed by the  frog's skin, which can lead to this disorder. Signs of toxic out  syndrome include: erratic jumping and spastic extensions of the hind  limbs, listlessness, and cloudy eyes. Treatment of toxic out syndrome in  frogs is by placing the frog in a shallow water dish of clean water and  leaving the frog there. You'll want to replace the water every 4 hours  or so until the signs go away. As long as you monitor the enclosure  conditions, you can prevent the frog from toxing out. 

What do you think?

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## BG

If you have a water bowl, you must keep it clean. Just keep him soaking in clean water.  This way you are flushing  the toxins. How often do you change the water. Is his environment clean. It all starts out from stress you know. It weakens their metabolism,and get sick. Hell be ok as long as you keep him calm and clean.

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## RobF353

> If you have a water bowl, you must keep it clean. Just keep him soaking in clean water.  This way you are flushing  the toxins. How often do you change the water. Is his environment clean. It all starts out from stress you know. It weakens their metabolism,and get sick. Hell be ok as long as you keep him calm and clean.


I just put a bigger water bowl in there for him and I placed him in it. Should I try to keep him in the water bowl as much as possible? 

How long until he gets better?

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## MeTree

> I have been reading around and it sounds like my frog may have Toxic Out Syndrome. 
> 
> This is an explanation I found:
> 
> Because frogs absorb water through their skin from the substrate of the  water bowl, you want to ensure that the water is changed frequently. If  you leave foul water in the water, the toxins can be absorbed by the  frog's skin, which can lead to this disorder. Signs of toxic out  syndrome include: erratic jumping and spastic extensions of the hind  limbs, listlessness, and cloudy eyes. Treatment of toxic out syndrome in  frogs is by placing the frog in a shallow water dish of clean water and  leaving the frog there. You'll want to replace the water every 4 hours  or so until the signs go away. As long as you monitor the enclosure  conditions, you can prevent the frog from toxing out. 
> 
> What do you think?


It is a possibility. This syndrome has afew different names, but I think Toxic Out is probably the most common. Some people don't understand that this isn't some kind of very rare diesase, this is something that is unfortunately common with Pacman Frogs. Be sure you are changing the water after everytime there is any evidence that your Pacman Frog has been inside of the dish.

TOS isn't the only thing that would provide ther symtoms you described. It could be something else, but if you haven't been changing the water all too regularly, that is probably where you want to look. When I was gone for camp this summer, my Pacman Frog developed it (forgot to tell the parents to change the water *facepalm*) and thankfully it is quickly reversable when treated early.  :Smile:

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## IvoryReptiles

It does sound like Toxicity to me.
PLEASE make sure you are using ONLY de-chlorinated water in the enclosure at ALL times!!!!
If you are concerned about a possible impaction due to moss ingestion, then maybe try feeding in a different container.
It will take time for him/her to get used to you. Frequent handling is not something I would practice. Try handling only when feeding or cleaning.
Photos would be great. I can guess at it's age, but honestly, size is not really an indicator. I'll show you why....



ALL 3 of these froglets are the same age. The photos were taken within 5 minutes of each other on the same day.
Use the vitamin & calcium every 3rd feeding.....too much can be just as devastating as not enough. 
Hope this helps some.

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## BG

Thats Good sign. Dust every other day with calcium D3 ,  vitamins once a week . Every 4th feeding


> Just got back from the pet shop. 
> 
> I bought a vitamin powder with D3 and a calcium powder with D3. 
> 
> How often should I use each of them?
> 
> Also, my frog pooped a little, but is still acting strange. If he swallowed some moss, how long does it take to pass? Is there anything I can do other than wait?

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## RobF353

So what do I do in the meantime? Just leave the frog alone?

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## RobF353

I think he's dead  :Frown:

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> I think he's dead


Why do you think he's dead? Is it not responding to touch? How deep was the water you placed the frog in and did you de-chlorinate the frogs water?

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## RobF353

> Why do you think he's dead? Is it not responding to touch? How deep was the water you placed the frog in and did you de-chlorinate the frogs water?


He is not responding. I sprayed him, he usually runs away, he didnt move. I picked him up, he didnt move. 

How do you de-chlorinate water?

Is he still alive, just not responding or did I lose him?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> He is not responding. I sprayed him, he usually runs away, he didnt move. I picked him up, he didnt move. 
> 
> How do you de-chlorinate water?
> 
> Is he still alive, just not responding or did I lose him?


Since you didn't know about de-chlorinated water this is why your frog has become ill. I don't know if it is lost yet. Check to see if it is breathing. You have to buy a water conditioner that removes chlorine/ammonia/ and heavy metals from tap water. It will harm or kill the frog if the water isn't treated. You need to go out and buy the water conditioner. Then come home and put some luke warm water in his/her dish. Very shallow no deeper than half the frog but I would do less in such a small frog. Treat the water with a drop of the water conditioner and set the frog in. This must be done quickly.

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HeatherK

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## RobF353

It doesnt look like he is breathing. 

It's weird though, I went to place a bigger water bowl in before. He did his stiffening and stretched his rear legs, but after that he was moving around fine. 

Is it possible I lost him in that small time window?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> It doesnt look like he is breathing. 
> 
> It's weird though, I went to place a bigger water bowl in before. He did his stiffening and stretched his rear legs, but after that he was moving around fine. 
> 
> Is it possible I lost him in that small time window?


Yes it is very possible. They are very fragile when it come to toxins and bacteria. Stress would have weakened it. It is also possible that the little guy/girl could have been ill when you bought him/her. If you did lose the little guy/girl don't beat yourself up. Learn from your mistakes and research before you buy another. The water not being de-chlorinated is probably what caused the little guy/girl to pass. Babies are extremely sensitive to toxins and unclean setups. Try again. Research your pet before you buy. We will be glad to help and answer any questions. If he/she passed I am sorry.

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## RobF353

It's official, my frog has passed. I'm kind of bummed, it was my lack of care and research.

I am going to do more research and get another frog soon. 

Should I get one from a pet shop or are there any breeders online who sell them?

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## BG

Wait don't rush into getting  another one yet. There is a couple of things you should know. Because you are going to loose another one of these great creatures again! Maybe i was blessed ,but i haven't lost one yet. I had issues but no deaths. Please do as much research as you can. Go over the care sheet on here. Its very helpful. Also ask as many questions as you like. We  are here to help you. Don't you think i want another frog soon, but i have to wait and make sure i have everything ready for the little guy like housing, food, atmosphere,. Once  you get the know how  get you're next pac and you'll have no issues and if you run in to issues you will be some what ready. Sorry about your loss.

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## BG

Rob you have to know what these frogs need to thrive. It does help to get a frog from a good seller. Theres a ton on here look them up. But what good is it if the frog is not kept happy. Now you're heart broken and poor frog is dead. I'm not knocking you , I want to see you get another frog OK.


> It's official, my frog has passed. I'm kind of bummed, it was my lack of care and research.
> 
> I am going to do more research and get another frog soon. 
> 
> Should I get one from a pet shop or are there any breeders online who sell them?

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## RobF353

Thanks for all the help guys!

I will do as much research as I can before buying my next pac man. 

Has anyone ever ordered a frog online? I found Reptile Supplies, Dog, Cat, Small Pet Supply & Aquarium Products. Anyone order live animals from them? Do you guys recommend ordering online?

They are actually about 30mins from me. I am going to call them tomorrow and see if they would let me pick the frog up there instead of shipping.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Thanks for all the help guys!
> 
> I will do as much research as I can before buying my next pac man. 
> 
> Has anyone ever ordered a frog online? I found Reptile Supplies, Dog, Cat, Small Pet Supply & Aquarium Products. Anyone order live animals from them? Do you guys recommend ordering online?
> 
> They are actually about 30mins from me. I am going to call them tomorrow and see if they would let me pick the frog up there instead of shipping.


I'm so sorry for your loss. I haven't ordered online before I got both mine at a local petsmart. I'm sure someone on here can give solid advice on ordering online.

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## BG

Rob do you live on Long island. The big apple reptile came up. Its very important.

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## RobF353

> Rob do you live on Long island. The big apple reptile came up. Its very important.


I live in Queens. Can I go to Big Apple Herp on LI and buy?

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## BG

Me too  give me a call. I want to help you out since you lost your frog. :Smile:

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## BG

Rob did you get my PM. Call me i need to talk to you.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Me too  give me a call. I want to help you out since you lost your frog.


Good man.

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## RobF353

> Rob did you get my PM. Call me i need to talk to you.


I sent you back a PM.

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