# Frogs & Toads > Mantella & Other Mantellidae > Gallery for Mantellidae >  Brone Mantellas

## jbaranowski

Here are a few pics of my Bronze Mantellas
Does anybody know if these are M. Ebenaui or M. Betsileo?

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## Joshua Ralph

> Here are a few pics of my Bronze Mantellas
> Does anybody know if these are M. Ebenaui or M. Betsileo?


Those specimens are (hard to tell with the camera angles) _M.betsileo_.

You can only tell by Locality data really, if you know  where the individuals are originally from (or where their ancestors are  from if Captive Bred) then you have your answer. 

Bronze Mantella (_M.ebenaui_) is from the northern parts of Madagascar (Nosy Be being one known locality for _M.ebenaui_) and Brown Leaf Mantella (_M.betsileo_) is scattered all around the Western-central to South-west Madagascar.  
They are basically and predominantly difficult to I.D via Morphological  methods, however it is believed that the _M.betsileo_ has a horse shoe  shape Blue marking on the under side of it's snout (along the chin line)  and _M.ebenaui_ will have a Trident shape to replace this. However it is  not 100% full proof that this is correct, but people have used this as a  basis for identification. 
The only problem is, unless you have a wild caught specimen, you aren't  certain of getting a exact species and more than likely you will be  getting hybrids as until about 2007 they weren't considered separate  species so a lot of people simply bought the newly imported specimens  and stuck them together and simply bred them (Many Mantella species in  the 90's were simply imported as "Mantella sp" with no naming of what  they were and kept together). 
They are both separate species though, this was confirmed a few years  ago now. However, _M.ebenaui_ was listed as an synonym of _M.betsileo_ (pers.comm. Vences 1999). Originally  though which is rather odd, _M.betsileo_ was described in 1872 by the  French naturalist Grandidier and the _M.ebenaui_ was described by Boettger  1880 (8 years after _M.betsileo_) - The _M.ebenaui_ specimens were all  collected from Nosy Be if I remember rightly. lol 

However, without locality information it will be impossible to know for certain without having DNA testing.

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DigitalPunk, Heatheranne

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## jbaranowski

Thanks for the info, I figured as much from all the research I have done on trying to figure it out...I think I have actually read what you posted somewhere, or at least something similar lol

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## Joshua Ralph

> Thanks for the info, I figured as much from all the research I have done on trying to figure it out...I think I have actually read what you posted somewhere, or at least something similar lol


Unfortunately for people, this is a topic that gets asked a lot, so you definitely would have seen me type it before, if not exactly the same wording because it gets asked that much! lol
Morphologically, from the detail of your specimens, these could well be M.betsileo, but if they are pure... thats another thing! 

Kind regards,

Joshua

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## Paul

Joshua,

While we are talking M. Betsileo. Is there any way to get them to come out more often. My 5 hide near constantly. I have considered reducing the brightness of the light since having a gravely planted tank hasn't helped at all. 

Btw - your Mantella are gorgeous! Regardless of the species.  :Smile: 

They look just like mine from what I can see in the pictures. I bought mine as WC.

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## Joshua Ralph

> Joshua,
> 
> While we are talking M. Betsileo. Is there any way to get them to come out more often. My 5 hide near constantly. I have considered reducing the brightness of the light since having a gravely planted tank hasn't helped at all. 
> 
> Btw - your Mantella are gorgeous! Regardless of the species. 
> 
> They look just like mine from what I can see in the pictures. I bought mine as WC.


Hi Paul, 

Unfortunately, no they are perhaps one of the shiest species within the genus (Including _M.ebenaui_) due to being less _Aposematic_ than some of the species. It isn't really something that can be remedied unfortunately mate, I have 4 in total of M.betsileo and 10 M.ebenaui, and I rarely if ever see them at all. If you keep them in seasons however (Dry and Wet Seasons etc), you will see them more around the wet period, but not much more lol  

Kind regards, 

Joshua

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## Carlos

Beautiful frogs and enclosure, congrats  :Big Applause:  !  What orchid species are you keeping in there?

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## jbaranowski

Thanks!
I believe it is a Phalaenopsis orchid?

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## Carlos

That's what I thought; they do well in enclosure's temps and high humidity?  Was thinking about trying some orchids with my frogs  :Smile:  .

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