# Other Animals > Other Amphibians >  Keeping multiple occupants in 1 house?

## spec

Since I started keeping some frogs as pets, I've gotten many people interested in them. A question thats popped up a couple of times has been about keeping different species of phibs and reps together. I staight up, today as a matter of fact, told my sister " uhh i dunno:" So, I'm asking you guys. Is 1 say 20 gallon terrarium large enough and is it safe to house a leapord gecko with a dumpy frog? (that was just an example question) I wasn't sure if maybe some bacteria from a gecko might affect the frog or maybe they're just sworn mortal enimies the kill on sight lol. Why I'm asking. Is there a list of compatible frogs and or other creatures?

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## Ebony

Hi Ray..yes that question does pop up on here as well. I think you will get the same answer from most of our members..that's its not a good idea to mix species.  They secret toxins which can be harmful to each other. Its great that you are introducing other people into the wonderful world of frog keeping. :Frog Smile:

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## spec

HIGH FiVE!

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## vince

> Since I started keeping some frogs as pets, I've gotten many people interested in them. A question thats popped up a couple of times has been about keeping different species of phibs and reps together. I staight up, today as a matter of fact, told my sister " uhh i dunno:" So, I'm asking you guys. Is 1 say 20 gallon terrarium large enough and is it safe to house a leapord gecko with a dumpy frog? (that was just an example question) I wasn't sure if maybe some bacteria from a gecko might affect the frog or maybe they're just sworn mortal enimies the kill on sight lol. Why I'm asking. Is there a list of compatible frogs and or other creatures?


This is an example of what worked for me Japanese tree-frogs Italian Crested newts and four Slow -worms . Whites Tree-frog Barking Tree-frog Tomato Frog this set up lasted for two years before the Barking and Tomato died [these were bought as adults and I had kept them in different set up for a number of years previously] and finally my clawed frogs and sharp ribbed newts . If things live in a similar environment then you may be lucky  but leopard geckoes need a dry environment compared to a frog . Remember everything eats something, small anolis in a  rain forest type set up with Greys and American green's may work as an example but they need plenty space tree-frogs mixed with  ground dwelling toads gives you an opportunity.Dont put a water dish in but spray regularly  I also kept Green Igs with Cane toads for years with no  problems ,and Golden Tegus  with  Cane toads but they come from the same area so  you have a fighting chance .European Green toads  with Green Iguanas worked very well. BOMBINAS DONT MIX ,and Cane toads should not be kept with any other amphibian as they poison them. If you are just starting to keep  amphibs then just keep them separate till  you get a lot of experience  :Frog Smile:

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## vince

For more examples a guy named Philippe De Vosjoli he's kept one  or two frogs in his time, in his book popular amphibians,  he gives various examples of what he has found to be successful a recommended read for anyone keeping amphibians  :Big Applause:

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## JeffX

You really don't want to mix at all.  Yes it can be done, but the real question is it should be done, and always will be no.

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## JimO

I'll have to say no as well.  Even experienced frog keepers disagree on whether or not this is a good idea and the species that would be compatible are very limited.

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## John Clare

I won't say never, but as far as most frogs go, it's not generally not a good idea to mix species.

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## vince

> I'll have to say no as well.  Even experienced frog keepers disagree on whether or not this is a good idea and the species that would be compatible are very limited.


Yes I agree but some times you have a big viv with a group of something that stays up in the branches and the floor space that is never touched . I found 1 frog species i newt/salamander and 1 lizard  worked well for me. The only loss was when a slow worm decided to get out and say hello to my tiger salamander. Yum yum! but that was an accident  you have to use common sense.  :Frog Smile:

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## JimO

Well, in all fairness and not to be a hypocrite, I have an Exo-terra that my son has used to keep treefrogs and other small species of frogs and toads.  He usually catches a half dozen in the spring and releases them at the end of the summer.  We also have a baby snapping turtle in there.  Occasionally a small frog will go missing and I've been more careful not to allow him to put what would essentially be feeder frogs in there.  We have a very large green treefrog female in there with the turtle and she would gobble down a smaller treefrog in a heartbeat.  I'm sure the turtle would be happy to eat froglegs for dinner as well.  But, the water pool has limited access and they have been together for over a year.

Anyway, there you have it.  I have a mixed tank!   :Embarrassment:   There, I said it.  Admission is the first step to recovery.   :Big Grin:   Although I never mix my dart frogs with each other or with other animals.  They are so cool and easy to watch that I really don't need any other animals in with them.  Also, some of them cost me an arm and a leg, so I wouldn't take the risk.  But, all four of my boys have learned a lot by having a terrarium set up ready for whatever they find in the mud.  They've raised tadpoles and released the toadlets, learned that toad tadpoles are largely prey items (after watching in shock as a dragon fly larvae grabbed one of their tads - he was promptly removed), among many other things.  So, the morale of the story is listen to everybody's opinions and then make an informed decision.  

If you;re talking about putting a small toad in with a brown anole for your son or daughter, then by all means go for it.  But, if you're considering mixing exotic, rare, or expensive animals, there is a risk that you could lose them.


> Yes I agree but some times you have a big viv with a group of something that stays up in the branches and the floor space that is never touched . I found 1 frog species i newt/salamander and 1 lizard worked well for me. The only loss was when a slow worm decided to get out and say hello to my tiger salamander. Yum yum! but that was an accident you have to use common sense.

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## vince

Yes an admission I'm not talking about mixing Darts or Mantellas but a small group of tree-frogs with a small group of newts and a few small lizards worked well for me for over two years and I still  keep the newts and lizards together even  now, it adds interest to a  large viv providing they don't compete for food and don't bully go for it. For example my newts ate maggots but wouldn't touch flies they turned into but my tree-frogs loved them.  :Frog Smile:

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## Julia

> If you;re talking about putting a small toad in with a brown anole for your son or daughter, then by all means go for it.  But, if you're considering mixing exotic, rare, or expensive animals, there is a risk that you could lose them.




So it's okay in your opinion to mix "cheap" animals?  All animals are living things.  Even if it is your kids terrarium its still your responsibility as the parent to make sure the animals are well taken care of.  If you have the knowledge and experience and know that it is wrong, then why would you STILL do it? 

I am a HUGE NO for mixing species.  Its not necessary.

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## vince

> So it's okay in your opinion to mix "cheap" animals?  All animals are living things.  Even if it is your kids terrarium its still your responsibility as the parent to make sure the animals are well taken care of.  If you have the knowledge and experience and know that it is wrong, then why would you STILL do it? 
> 
> I am a HUGE NO for mixing species.  Its not necessary.


Get a grip love ,my animals have been together for over two years and have bred as well, as each has a separate niche within the vivarium, and they  are doing nicely. You can't please everyone, so just please yourself ,and if it makes you happy, and you get enjoyment out of it then go for it, use bit of common sense and you can't go wrong. Mr Phillippe De Vosjoli wrote a whole chapter of his book on mixing species and the success he had with his set ups and he's probably forgotten more than what we know. So each to their own  :AR15:

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## Julia

Yes to each their own.  I dont feel like arguing something that only takes a little common sense.  Two years is not a long time for a frog to live....ask experts on this site and veterinarians for their opinions and 99 percent will agree not to mix.  

We take these animals out of the wild to keep them for our personal pleasure.  Why take it a step further and mix several species.  These animals would not live ontop of each other naturally in the wild so would we throw them in a tiny glass box and force them to live in this manner.   Just because we CAN do these things does not mean that it is whats best for them.  

I want people who are inexperienced and are reading this thread to understand both angles.  Your opinion that it is okay, and mine that it is certainly not.  Let them come to their own conclusions with the information provided.  

I am curious if you are talking about this book:  Care and Breeding of Popular Treefrogs by Philippe De Vosjoli.  If so what year was it written.

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## Tony

> I won't say never, but as far as most frogs go, it's not generally not a good idea to mix species.



Agreed. It can be done if you are familiar enough with the species involved and know how to design a vivarium to meet all of their needs, but if you have to ask then you aren't there yet.

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## vince

I am curious if you are talking about this book:  Care and Breeding of Popular Treefrogs by Philippe De Vosjoli.  If so what year was it written.  

[/QUOTE]

No the book is popular amphibians he covers various frogs and newts it has a picture of bombina orientalis on the front, I got it because he covered a lot plants to go in your vivs if I can find the book I'll get you the bs no of it. I have got the one on Tree-fogs  that you mentioned but you lend stuff out and  you can't remember who to, then you go and buy it again and your mate returns your original . He covers aquatic , island and swamp [he doesn't call it that ]  he just explains easy to keep stuff that you can have a lot of pleasure from. :Frog Smile:

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## vince

> Agreed. It can be done if you are familiar enough with the species involved and know how to design a vivarium to meet all of their needs, but if you have to ask then you aren't there yet.


You can't beat asking for opinions and suggestions, that's how we learn . Nobody was born an expert in frog keeping you learn by your mistakes and from other people .That is what being part of a forum is about. Please remember the bad old days before computers, ringing your local, or not so local zoo up for ideas.Look how much we have come on breeding reptiles and amphibians .My son on the Caudata forum recieved a lot of flack from the so called experts saying he didn't have a clue how to keep his axys though he had the courage to ask for opinions . I told him to take no notice of the flack,  opinions are like bums we all have one. Last week they spawned they started to hatch today he has learnt from the experience and by dealing with people giving him suggestions. :Frog Smile:

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## JimO

Your comment comes across quite harsh, implying that I somehow encourage my son not to properly care for animals making me a bad parent. Giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that is not what you meant, perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I was speaking from a practical standpoint, not from an animal husbandry ethics standpoint. My son has kept a couple of brown anoles with a small Southern Toad because he found them in the same bush and wanted to feed them and watch them for a while. I don't view this as callous disregard for the good of individual animals as you imply. They were all well cared for and released after a few weeks in perfect health. By the way, our chickens regularly catch and eat brown anoles, which is far more traumatic than being exposed to a toad in an aquarium. Would you also consider it cruel to mix insect species (crickets) with frog species? That seems pretty necessary for the frog's health. You see, animal ethics can be very subjective. An insect lover might consider it incredibly cruel to rear them in crowded containers and them let them be eaten alive. After all, crickets and meal worms are living things too. The same can be said for mice or any other prey animals. That is precisely why I was addressing this as a practical matter and not an ethical one.

From a strictly practical standpoint, it would be risky to mix exotic species that aren't found together in the wild for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the cost involved in losing an animal. That was my main point.

If you'd like to discuss the ethics of caring for captive living things, then start a thread and we can discuss the captive care of living things other than frogs and lizards.


> So it's okay in your opinion to mix "cheap" animals? *All animals are living things*. Even if it is your kids terrarium its still your responsibility as the parent to make sure the animals are well taken care of. If you have the knowledge and experience and know that it is wrong, then why would you STILL do it? 
> 
> I am a HUGE NO for mixing species. Its not necessary.

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## JimO

In your opinion, would this sentiment extend to aquariums, reef tanks, vivs with more than one plant species, paludariums, etc.? All contain living things. Some contain both predator and prey.

I would add that what is best for them might be to be left alone in the wild.


> We take these animals out of the wild to keep them for our personal pleasure. Why take it a step further and mix several species. These animals would not live ontop of each other naturally in the wild so would we throw them in a tiny glass box and force them to live in this manner. Just because we CAN do these things does not mean that it is whats best for them.

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## Julia

> Your comment comes across quite harsh, implying that I somehow encourage my son not to properly care for animals making me a bad parent.... My son has kept a couple of brown anoles with a small Southern Toad  because he found them in the same bush and wanted to feed them and watch  them for a while. I don't view this as callous disregard for the good  of individual animals as you imply. They were all well cared for and  released after a few weeks in perfect health.


I did not intend to offend you or call you a bad parent.  I was just surprised by the statement that you would not mix your dart frogs but feel okay letting your son mix whatever he catches.  I actually think it is wonderful that you allow him to catch and observe animals.  Teaching him responsibility and respect for animals.  I wish more parents could do that.  Lack of information led me to assume that these were random animals collected from various places and kept for a lifetime.  Thanks for clearing that up.   Sorry if you were offended. 




> By the way, our chickens regularly catch and eat brown anoles, which is far more traumatic than being exposed to a toad in an aquarium. Would you also consider it cruel to mix insect species (crickets) with frog species? That seems pretty necessary for the frog's health. You see, animal ethics can be very subjective.


Agreed that it is very subjective.   Your chickens eating anoles is nature, and survival.  Its harsh but one needs to die for another to live.    Same with frogs and crickets.   In my opinion mixing frogs and lizards to fill up every corner and gap in an aquarium is different.  





> An insect lover might consider it incredibly cruel to rear them in crowded containers and them let them be eaten alive. After all, crickets and meal worms are living things too. The same can be said for mice or any other prey animals. That is precisely why I was addressing this as a practical matter and not an ethical one.


My crickets are spoiled.  They live in a 33 gallon aquarium with endless amounts of fresh fruits and veggies along with heat and their tank is cleaned daily.  I love insects, I treat them as well as I treat my pets...except for when its time for my animals to eat.  Again its nature and survival.   Personally am against feeding rats/mice so I wont touch that one.




> From a strictly practical standpoint, it would be risky to mix exotic species that aren't found together in the wild for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the cost involved in losing an animal. That was my main point.


Agreed.

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## Julia

> In your opinion, would this sentiment extend to aquariums, reef tanks, vivs with more than one plant species, paludariums, etc.? All contain living things. Some contain both predator and prey.
> 
> I would add that what is best for them might be to be left alone in the wild.


I agree that is whats best is to leave them in the wild.  But being humans we are curious and greedy and keep them for our own pleasure.  For me what somewhat justifies doing this is giving them the BEST possible life in captivity.  To me this means taking away the fear of predators, providing as large of a home as possible, endless amounts of food and clean water etc.   Also very important is to breed animals that are in danger of becoming extinct.  But of course most of them are in risk BECAUSE of people.  


I apologize if I have offended anyone with my point of view.  I know there will always be people out there who disagree...but my intention was NOT to attack anyone personally, it was meant as a general statement.  Of course there are factors and exceptions to the things I say, keep in mind they are just my personal opinion.  I think this subject gets me so riled up because of what I deal with on a daily basis.  I try to rescue reptiles and amphibians who are being abused or neglected.  Most recently I took in a Basilisk who was kept in a desert tank with a bearded dragon.  The basilisk has severe eye infections and a heavy parasite load.  He may be blind and will never be normal.   This is an extreme example but things like that happen every day.

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## JimO

My apologies Julia.  I'm a pretty dedicated dad and over-reacted to your comments, which I know you didn't intend the way I took it.  I also would like to apologize to the rest of the members for my reaction.  It's no excuse, but it's been a tough week already.  :Embarrassment:

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