# General Topics > Vivarium, Terrarium & Enclosure Discussion >  Mossy Frog build

## NatureLady

So my (single) Mossy is in quarantine and I have many different tanks laying around. So what are your thoughts...

Do I build in the 10 or the 20 tall?

My idea thus far...
A karst like cave along the shore line of the tank with a hill of plants towards the top...slow water feature dripping over the top of the cave and into the water (like many caves I have been in). 

I always hear that limestone is bad to use in vivs, but if the species is from limestone streams, would it be useable? 

I am thrilled to be building this and I need it too. Suggestions....now go!

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## bill

20 tall....go big or go home!!LOL first off, i like the concept. very cool. how much water are we talking about? 50/50? 70/30? as far as limestone, i can't be positive about safe for the frog. i would imagine that a majority of limestones are pretty much alike, as far as how they affect water chemistry. they are all going to make it hard and alkaline. i would imagine that if it were a wc frog, that would be fine, but a cb, i wouldn't risk. but disregarding the frog for a moment, let's look at the other stuff you're gonna have in the tank. unless you use plants from a limestone stream, any plants you put in it are going to HATE the water. especially over time. most plants like a nice, neutral to soft and acidic water/soil combo. your soil mix _may_ help to buffer it a bit. but probably not enough. but here's the biggie. water spots. you will be constantly cleaning water spots off after a few months (maybe less) you know those dishwasher liquid commercials with all the hazy glasses? there ya go

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## froglover4evr

Clay Substrate How-To - Dendroboard this is a great link on making a great substrate...i dont know much but from what i do know limestone is better left out of the cage...20 vert for sure....i think that would be a great idea!!!! just make sure you use the proper supplies! just wanted to remind you so you have no leaks....i would love to see pics of the final product :Cool: ...just remember that since you have the frog you dont have much time to complete it :EEK!:

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## NatureLady

Thanks guys! I knew I could count on you, Bill, to chime in! 

Limestone ledges sounded cool, but I didn't really expect anyone to say that they would be a good idea. lol! I am no artist, so I will spare you from seeing any drawings having to do with this project. The 20 gallon was decided and I even wrote a nice long reply on this thread, then my internet decided to crash on me. I have a nice lid for the 20 and would have had to purchase a new lid for the extra 10 that I have lying around. I have a lot of supplies already, but I also have a list of needs that is building faster than this build is. 

Bill-What species of moss would do good with semi aquatic to total aquatic and a 12 hour light schedule? Oh and cool temps. Moss has never been a plant I have purchased and wrong season to harvest local stuff. Oh and your suggestion on a sub filter for the water...would you say one like your last build???

Steve-Thanks for the input also. My little friend has a nice spacious 10 gallon tank it is currently calling home. I always keep a hospital/quarantine tank laying around for safe measure. The little dude is tiny.

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## bill

Amanda, i've got you covered on moss. No worries  :Smile:  let me know if you want some sheet moss or pillow moss as well. My plant shop sells it for $6. I know zoomed sells that frog moss for cheap, but i have never been able to get it to grow like the stuff i get from my plant girls. Otherwise, i can link you to a quality supplier when i get home. 

Submersible filters are pretty much going to be determined on how much room you have, where you plan on placing it and whether or not you plan on having it run your water feature as well. 

Which brings me to my next question, how are you planning on running you water feature? Let me know if you need a pump. I get reptiflo 250 pumps for $7  :Smile:  anything you need let me know. Just cover costs of what i pick up for you, shipping is on me  :Smile:  call it my little contribution....  :Smile: 

Oh, and i won't tell you what the first word out of my mouth was when i saw you got a mossy......lmao!!

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## bill

I forgot to ask. Are you going with a specific "theme"? Are you going with local plants? Big box plants? Or plants that are mostly endemic to se asia? I do have a bunch o'aquatics/marginals from se asia in case you decide to go that route. I can also hook you up with domestics as well.  :Smile:

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## NatureLady

> Amanda, i've got you covered on moss. No worries  let me know if you want some sheet moss or pillow moss as well. My plant shop sells it for $6. I know zoomed sells that frog moss for cheap, but i have never been able to get it to grow like the stuff i get from my plant girls. Otherwise, i can link you to a quality supplier when i get home. 
> 
> Submersible filters are pretty much going to be determined on how much room you have, where you plan on placing it and whether or not you plan on having it run your water feature as well. 
> 
> Which brings me to my next question, how are you planning on running you water feature? Let me know if you need a pump. I get reptiflo 250 pumps for $7  anything you need let me know. Just cover costs of what i pick up for you, shipping is on me  call it my little contribution.... 
> 
> Oh, and i won't tell you what the first word out of my mouth was when i saw you got a mossy......lmao!!


WOW, Bill you are awesome!!! If you have yet to gather...I live in the middle of nowhere land. It takes me an hour plus to get to a chain pet store and the only local pet store is beyond a joke. (In fact IF the state ever lays off the naturalists, I think I will open a decent pet store! OR daycare...these are hard to find in my area too.) ((I derail))  I need all the help on quality plant links and info as this forum will provide. That is why I started this thread so early in my build  :Smile: 

I have no submersible filters lying around, only the style that hangs from the rim of the tank. I purchased (I think ZooMed brand) waterfall kit for my white's viv and took it out after feeling the need to clean everything within an inch of its life after losing my two white's back in June /July. I had planned to use that to save some money. The pump is simply a means to get the water where it is going and is surprisingly powerful, even on its lowest setting.

As for your first word...at least you understand my awesomeness  :Wink:   lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





> I forgot to ask. Are you going with a specific "theme"? Are you going with local plants? Big box plants? Or plants that are mostly endemic to se asia? I do have a bunch o'aquatics/marginals from se asia in case you decide to go that route. I can also hook you up with domestics as well.


I do not plan to go as far as SE Asia endemic species only. I have yet to find this said amazing link that shows me what these species are... 

I am gathering a lot of ideas from photos of the area where Mossy's are natively found. In my area we have a lot of limestone caves that I have spent many hours spelunking through during my college years. (my professor installs/monitors gates to keep people from vandalizing caves, but allows the bats to still fly safely in and out of the cave to forage.) I think some of what my vision is coming from those caves and ecosystems I have experienced firsthand. 

I don't really want photo’s vines or anything that you would see around my local stores. I want it to look as exotic as this little guy does.

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## NatureLady

As a side note from the build log...somebody liked his baby hissers!!!! Gotta love a non picky frog <3d

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## bill

Well Amanda, you may feel as though today is your lucky day when i share some info with you here. Due to some construction and design flaws, i need to completely break down my 125. So, if there are any plants in there that you'd like, let me know. I can also send you the pump out of it because i won't be using it in the redesign. Sorry, the filter stays......lol what can i say? I have a soft side for damsels in distress. Ok, so you're not in distress, but you get my poin
Unfortunately, there is no magic link to all plant species of se asia. That would be a ridiculously huge list.......lol but if you like, i would be more than happy to throw a list together of aquatics and marginals you can use.   :Smile:

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## NatureLady

> Well Amanda, you may feel as though today is your lucky day when i share some info with you here. Due to some construction and design flaws, i need to completely break down my 125. So, if there are any plants in there that you'd like, let me know. I can also send you the pump out of it because i won't be using it in the redesign. Sorry, the filter stays......lol what can i say? I have a soft side for damsels in distress. Ok, so you're not in distress, but you get my poin
> Unfortunately, there is no magic link to all plant species of se asia. That would be a ridiculously huge list.......lol but if you like, i would be more than happy to throw a list together of aquatics and marginals you can use.


Stop it BILL!!! That is amazing! I can be a damsel in distress...lol...never mind. I will take em!!! I will send you a pm about it tomorrow.

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## NatureLady

Good news for me...the 20 tall in storage is in fact a 30 gallon. I have for days been wavering on which tank would go to which frog. I found an amazing piece of drift wood that would be amazing for my WTF Pimby, but the decision was made when it didn't fit into the 30 gallon. So the tank that is now getting a good bath, is once again going for the Mossy. 

I found some photo's that are not mine, so I won't share them, of a national park that Mossy's call home. Lots of waterfalls down the mountains and into crystal blue water...wish I could be there now...ANYWAYS.

Here is my question for you today...If my viv has a mountain (back glass) that has a fountain in the corner and cascades into the first pool (that will be no more than 2 inches deep), riffles into another pool (2nd very shallow), and possibly into a third or just into the shallow portion of the water area at the bottom...Would you simply carve the pool into the GS or insert a dish (of some sort) and foam around it to create the pool????

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## IrishRonin

I have built pools both ways, if your gonna go w/ GS make sure you seal it really good or it will leak. When do we get to see a pic of your little one?
Bill- is there anyway i could get some of the above stated plants, 2nd pick of course  :Wink:

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## bill

i would use cheapo dollar store tupperware for the pool. sealing carved gs, is a pita. and don't forget, if you plan to have any plants growing in the pools to allow for substrate as well. 

Ronin, you can definitely have 2nd pic. i will be tearing the tank down New Year's day. It's the next day i have off with "nothing to do"...lol btw, i LOVE the name Ronin, i wanted to name my youngest that, but got shot down. it's also the name of my favorite DeNiro film...lol

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## NatureLady

> When do we get to see a pic of your little one?




This is the only photo I have at the moment. 

I have possible plastic-ware already taped to the tank in the spots I want the pools.

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## Lynn

> Amanda, i've got you covered on moss. No worries  let me know if you want some sheet moss or pillow moss as well. My plant shop sells it for $6. I know zoomed sells that frog moss for cheap, but i have never been able to get it to grow like the stuff i get from my plant girls. Otherwise, i can link you to a quality supplier when i get home. 
> 
> Submersible filters are pretty much going to be determined on how much room you have, where you plan on placing it and whether or not you plan on having it run your water feature as well. 
> 
> Which brings me to my next question, how are you planning on running you water feature? Let me know if you need a pump. I get reptiflo 250 pumps for $7  anything you need let me know. Just cover costs of what i pick up for you, shipping is on me  call it my little contribution.... 
> 
> Oh, and i won't tell you what the first word out of my mouth was when i saw you got a mossy......lmao!!



Hi Bill,
What is the address of the plant shop in Philly? Thanks
Lynn

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## bill

Hi Lynn, it's not too far from where your son is at. it's city planter. 814 n. 4th st. here's their website Container Garden Planters | City Planter Philadelphia oh, and if you happen to come down for a visit and go there, i highly recommend the restaurant on the corner. they were featured on diners, dives and drive ins. awesome food  :Smile:

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## Fishbone

> Here is my question for you today...If my viv has a mountain (back glass) that has a fountain in the corner and cascades into the first pool (that will be no more than 2 inches deep), riffles into another pool (2nd very shallow), and possibly into a third or just into the shallow portion of the water area at the bottom...Would you simply carve the pool into the GS or insert a dish (of some sort) and foam around it to create the pool????



In my build, it's still in the planning stage, I have a similar idea with cascading pools.
From past experience with GS, it's hard to seal it from water, it acts as sponge, for me, using it as a form to hold water is out of the question.

I thought of using cheap tupperware, paint the outside, glue rocks on the inside and sink it in the substrate,.
 To cascade them, I thought of using 3/8 plastic hose glued to a hole close to the top lip, depending on the flow, use 1/2" hose and connect a few different sizes bowls/containers together, or just cut them and glue them together, cascading them .

To make them look less like 'tupperware' and more realistic, use a heat gun to distort the shape, then paint and glue pebbles/rocks.

I saw these at Petsmart, there's a few different shapes/sizes of water dishes and soaking dishes.
Fluker&#39;s Groovy Jacuzzi - Reptile - Sale - PetSmart

Depending on what my 'pools' look like, I might use both!

BTW I first thought "mossy frog' might be the name of your frog, until I looked it up!
That is one strange, cool looking creature!!

Keep us up to date on your build!

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## bill

hey Lady!!! any progress? i get sick for a little while and you did nothing??LOL btw, pm me the pertinent info so i can ship some stuff out after the first of the year. oh yeah, and an idea of some plants you'd like would be nice. maybe a pic so i can see what room you are working with??

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## Heather

I'd love to see an update too  :Smile: . P.S. The groovy jacuzzi water bowls are awesome. I have them in my pac tanks. They set down into the substrate and they have little built in steps making it easy to get in and out of  :Smile: .

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## NatureLady

Hi guys! Thanks for checking on me and the build. 

Christmas for two very amazing little girls is over and I can start back on this project. No, I didn't build while on break for Christmas. Memories with the kids needed to be made. I am only one person so it takes a lot to make Christmas magic. I am much more dedicated to parenting then this project.  :Smile:  I also had other personal issues to deal with that were not needed, but happened all the same. 

Things are going, but as I have stated before living in small town America is a real pain sometimes. I wasn't able to buy everything that I needed and will have to make a trip to a better store before it is all said and done. (I will probably just order the rest online...but I need an excuse for big town retail therapy...) Ummm...let's see what else...OH! I already knew that I suck at drawing a straight line, well with the use of my father’s power tools I cut the pvc, and I also learned I can't cut in a straight line. So that gave me more work than it should have. But everything is planned out in my head and the majority of it is drawn onto paper/tank sides. Egg crate is cut and sitting in its place. The waterfall part is still playing out in my head and I am working on that today. 


So question time...GE II Silicone has a mold/mildew inhibitor...I thought that this was unsafe for builds?

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## bill

Glad to hear everything is good  :Smile:  yes, kids are more important that anything at christmas time. After all, it's their holiday  :Smile: 

I can't cut a straight line either, that's why i use a chop saw......lol sounds like you're making progress though. And yes, the stuff with with the mold inhibitors is bad. There are several versions of silicone ii. I like the brown, but it's a personal preference.

Any thoughts on what plants you want to go with? I have several ferns you can use, a ridiculous amount of ficus pumilia, some large leafed creeping charlie, some fittonias, some pileas species, angelwing begonia, shall i go on? Lol

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## NatureLady

I sent you a pm Bill. As for plants...I would love the ferns, anything creeping that will over take the wall, any moss, marginal, or aquatic....

Oh what do you use as your aquatic substrate? Flourite or eco-complete is what I have researched as possibilities...yes I have been browsing planted tank forums  :Smile: 

Back to the plants...you might want to pm me a list of what you have so I can search for photo's of them for my visual aid.

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## bill

I got you covered  :Smile:  have you been stalking me on another forum? Because that would be cool.....lol i use different substrates for different purposes. Flourite is a good substrate, but it is a pain in the butt!! Eco is good,  but it is light, almost to the point of floating....lol currently, my top 3 are red sea flora base, floramax (i think, it's sold at petsmart), and kitty litter  :Smile: 
I'll pm you a list tonight with pics  :Smile:

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## Heather

Really? Kitty litter? Do you mix anything in with it? Very interesting. 

Glad to hear you had a nice holiday with the girls  :Smile: .

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## bill

Nope.....straight, unscented kitty litter. Same stuff you would use to do a clay background.  :Smile:

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## Heather

And you plant right into it under the water?

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## bill

yes indeedy  :Smile:  i like to use it as a cap over dirt or soiless soil. my heavy root feeders like crypts, swords and vals LOVE the stuff. here's a pic og my 30g kitty litter "set it and forget it" shrimp tank

close up....see? just kitty litter with my special dirt under it  :Smile:

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## Heather

What's the special dirt?

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## bill

It's a soiless hydroponics growing medium. I use it exclusively in all my tanks and vivs. I'll post a pic of the brand later, gotta do some trading with a planted tank buddy in a few minutes  :Smile:

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## Heather

Great, thanks!

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## bill

as promised. this is what i use Heather. it is chock full of all the good stuff plants love, coco fiber, peat moss, perlite, pumice, compost, mulch, worm castings, bat guano, kelp meal, fish bone meal, soybean meal, feather meal, greensand, leonardite and alfalfa meal. (direct from the ingredient list on the bag)


i used to use another brand, but my soil went TOO acidic. turns out they started making it in South Carolina instead of California and stopped using redwood mulch. so i tested a few brands and ended up with this one that i really like, and so do my plants  :Smile:

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Sunshine

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## Heather

Thank you  :Smile: .

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## Heather

Amanda, any photo updates?  :Smile:

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## NatureLady

> as promised. this is what i use Heather. it is chock full of all the good stuff plants love, coco fiber, peat moss, perlite, pumice, compost, mulch, worm castings, bat guano, kelp meal, fish bone meal, soybean meal, feather meal, greensand, leonardite and alfalfa meal.


So this soilless growing medium has compost and mulch....would an organic mushroom compost work? I checked with the local company that sales the said product and the ingredients would not be harmful...just a bit different composition then your mix Bill. It would be easier to find a needle in a haystack in my area then a hydro store.

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## NatureLady

> Amanda, any photo updates?


 I will post some tonight. The moutain waterfall is in the works.

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## bill

> So this soilless growing medium has compost and mulch....would an organic mushroom compost work? I checked with the local company that sales the said product and the ingredients would not be harmful...just a bit different composition then your mix Bill. It would be easier to find a needle in a haystack in my area then a hydro store.


Sorry, got tied up at work. And not in that fun, every other saturday night way.....lol i looked into a local supply company (ss pa is famous for 'shroom farms), and yes, 'shroom compost would be excellent. High in nitrogen, definitely good. Go spelunking and get yourself some bat gjano and you're set......lol

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## bill

That's supposed to be southeast pa.....stupid smart phone

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## NatureLady

> Sorry, got tied up at work. And not in that fun, every other saturday night way.....lol


Ummmm...tmi...lol

Fortunately for me my work is dead and it is ever so slightly snowing. 

Here is where I am on the viv...

Attachment 44122


The mess to the right of middle is where the last pool will pour over the entrance to the cave. Cave will be 60% submerged and 40% rocky.

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## bill

we're getting that snow tomorrow. 2-4" yuck, i hate snow!!

um, the attachment doesn't work. it says i need to contact an administrator and i don't feel like it!!LOL

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## Heather

Lol!!! You guys crack me up!

I can't see it either though  :Wink: .

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## NatureLady

I tried to send it from my snail computer at work, now I'm working on high speed interwebs at home.

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## Heather

Very cool!

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## NatureLady

Thanks. You should see how it looks in my mind  :Wink:

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## bill

That looks like it's gonna be sweet Amanda!! Multi leveled, nice storied water feature, very impressive  :Smile:  is the lower level on the right going to be partially submerged?

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## NatureLady

The main land portion has pvc spacers that are 4 inches tall, the shallow end (on the right) has spacers that are 2.5 inches, the cave is set to only have 0.5-1 inch of standing water in it when complete. The cave will hold the water, but will be easy enough to just splash the water out to clean it. 

The water feature up top is still causing me mental stress, kinda like your (BILL) build where the contractor and the engineer argue. I had cut these plastic bottles in half and had planned to connect the two pools with those, but they just aren't working with me. At this time my thoughts are that I will just GS the stream bed and epoxy river rocks to make a riffle to the lower pool. The epoxy will seal the GS and hold the rocks...correct? The whole idea is to keep the water circulating for proper filtration flow, but slow it down enough not to disturb the frog who likes slow moving water. Hence the cascading pools, a stream that riffles, the shallow end, and cave that holds water, but provides moist escape.

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## bill

yes, you can gs the stream and then seal it. if you want to try one more thing that is man made, habit trails tubes. you know those silly corrugated tubes for hamsters? they split in half, so you have 2 pieces to play with. and just like pvc, can be heated and bent to your heart's desire  :Smile: 

isn't building a water feature the most frustrating thing in the world?? my bed bully thinks i'm nuts because i will literally start arguing with myself while building them. but it helps my process. between talking to myself (the only way i get an intelligent conversation at home) and whiteboards, it works for me. you just need to find what works for you so your mind's eye can see it better.  :Smile:

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## NatureLady

So riddle me this Batman...

Where do GS streams/pools leak? What is the weak point? Is it the GS it's self that erodes because of the water action? Weight of the water that causes weak spots? 

This afternoon has been one of those moments where I could have thrown the egg crate mess more then once. But, on the bright side, I didn't and I don't believe I need to cut or attach another piece of egg crate to the build. *Grumble* Or at least I am not doing anymore this weekend.

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## bill

simply put Batgirl, the weak spot is the fact that once it is carved/cut, it is porous inside. all those little air bubbles create little pockets for the water to escape. you can seal it with epoxy, like you said, or silicone or and equivalent. what you can try to alleviate your frustration is this: instead of a slope for your pools, step it up. make it a staircase. place a pool on a couple stairs. then you can use GS to surround them, stabilize them, and you can carve it to overflow where YOU want the water to go. plus, it will be more stable than the slope. those bins will get heavy when filled with water.

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## NatureLady

So if the GS is NOT carved it is sealed and therefore water tight????

I don't want to carve it, I just want to put some GS down like a drip wall, but stream instead. Today I actually did built egg crate ledges/boxes to support that weight. The common sense person lost somewhere in my head told me that 1 gallon = 8 pounds, so these pools would put a strain on the build. I purchased those bins at my favorite store, Dollar Tree, because they are made to organize your kitchen drawers and snap together. There were three, but one had a crack in the bottom.

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## bill

dollar tree, the place where i go to spend $4 and end up spending $40.....lol yes, if uncarved, gs is water proof, but difficult to manipulate the water to go where you want it since you cannot control the expansion of the foam. sorry to say that some carving may be required  :Frown:

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## NatureLady

A week later and here we are with the water feature...

It works.

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## bill

Until the foam goes in.....lol looks good so far Amanda. Can't wait to see it foamed and covered  :Smile:

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## Heather

Awesome! I love it! Me too....it's going to be fabulous!  :Smile:

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## bill

look what i found at the plant shop today Amanda, a mini plumosa fern  :Smile:

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## NatureLady

I'm just happy that I found an excuse to use my low temp hot glue gun in this build. (That is how the trays are staying put on the incline.) LOL  :Smile:

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## NatureLady

That is awesome BILL!!!!

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## NatureLady



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## Heather

Awe, she's beautiful, Amanda  :Smile: .

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## bill

omg!! how freaking adorable!! i want one!!LOL

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## Heather

Aren't they awesome? So unique  :Smile: .

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## mtndendros

> Attachment 44825


So adorable! I had to quote the picture just so everyone could see it again!  :Big Grin:

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## mtndendros

Except it didn't work lol

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## NatureLady

Thanks Mtndendros and welcome to FF!

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## Heather

How's it coming, Amanda?

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## NatureLady

All is well. My internet isn't allowing me to upload photo's, but it is siliconed down, covered with weed guard, and I will start foaming tomorrow between laundry loads!  :Smile:  I had to wait to start foaming until I could buy tubing for my filter. The poor guys at Lowe's were trying to sell me silicone not tubing...somehow their wires got crossed in my need for directions and cutting help. lol

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## Heather

Lol!!!!  :Big Grin:

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## bill

Lowe's home of the people who can't use a measuring tape.....lol

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## NatureLady

I gave the dude a wtf look and said NOOOOOO I need tubing, silicone tubing not a tube of silicone. All the while my 2 year old was wearing her red and green stocking cap screaming (ok talking loudly) that he was HO HO (aka: Santa). I just dropped my evil stare and said "isn't she cute". But, it got super funny when he got the right size tubing onto the outflow of the filter and the fitting popped off. He thought he had broke it and started to get nervous, lol. I told him not to worry just cut the length I need and price it. He also thought the tubing should fit inside of the fitting. Obviously not the smart one. You want me to send him to your migrant work crew Bill????????? LMAO!

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## bill

Lol.....i will pass. And say what you want about migratory workers, but they do work hard!!  :Smile:

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## bill

so what time do we start foaming today? LOL

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## NatureLady

> Lol.....i will pass. And say what you want about migratory workers, but they do work hard!!


Ummm..yeah they are hard workers. But, we'll keep this topic off of FF. We don't want anyone to start ranting up my thread. lol

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## NatureLady

I have had a lot of troubles uploading photo's because of my internet, but here is my progress in short...

I siliconed the land down, because the cave portion will be foamed and in the water and would have caused some floating issues.

I like to recycle things if you have yet to notice  :Smile:  I ended up putting 6 planters in.

After can #1 of GS I was on top of the world. Nothing on my clothing or skin and it all went where it was suppose to go. Can #2 was where the skin got covered from wrist to elbow and the glass got some decent smears. Something was wrong with the straw portion and it came out like a snake. Can #3 was just straight from hell! It was not GS but another brand, I purchased it because it had an easier looking trigger. It expanded much more then the GS, but I was able to touch it after 30 minutes and mold it by hand. I got it all over myself, but amazingly it cleaned off of my skin with ease. Win some lose some I suppose.

Here it is after one coat of Titebond 3 and eco earth. This part was so easy, maybe I just made it sound harder in my mind. All the same I can't wait for round 2. The cave portion is going to take forever to dry up.

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## bill

that look s awesome Amanda. now i gotta step up my game. that is going to look superb with the plants you have for it  :Wink:  and i told you titebond was easy  :Smile:

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## NatureLady

Thanks Bill. You have given me the tools to make it happen. Knowledge is power.  :Big Grin:

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## NatureLady

Oh and Sunday I plan to make a trip to Lowe's to see if they still have those hanging baskets on sale for $3. I have kicked myself for not buying it all week. It will look awesome in the large planter on the left. If I find the one I want you will have to help me ID it, because it had no tags.

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## bill

> Thanks Bill. You have given me the tools to make it happen. Knowledge is power.


yes it is. it's amazing what one can do when given the proper knowledge  :Smile:  and you had plenty of knowledge, i just gave ya the nudge ya needed  :Smile:

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## bill

> Oh and Sunday I plan to make a trip to Lowe's to see if they still have those hanging baskets on sale for $3. I have kicked myself for not buying it all week. It will look awesome in the large planter on the left. If I find the one I want you will have to help me ID it, because it had no tags.


but of course  :Smile:  and don;t forget, i have some others for you. btw, what's your plans on soil/substrate?

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## NatureLady

> yes it is. it's amazing what one can do when given the proper knowledge  and you had plenty of knowledge, i just gave ya the nudge ya needed


Awwwww  :Smile: 




> but of course  and don;t forget, i have some others for you. btw, what's your plans on soil/substrate?


Remember, I purchased the local organic mushroom compost. I have yet to decide what I am doing to cover the aquatic substrate. I had thought about doing the clay, but I'm not sure the color is what I want. I am leaning towards something brown, maybe aquarium sand.

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## bill

if you go with sand, you can use pool filter sand, or believe it or not, play sand. just make sure to wash either off thoroughly. and this coming from a guy who rarely rinses his substrates. i have used both, they are pretty much equal, but the pool filter sand depends on locality. some are tan, some off white and some stark white. i always make sure to "accidentally" poke a hole in the bag with my keys at the pool supply place so i know what color the sand is....LOL the one true downside to sand, whether it is the ones i listed or the overpriced aquarium versions, over the course of time, a long time, it will compact. this isn't much of an issue unless you are using it to cap dirt. eventually, the sand will sink into the dirt and the dirt will start to rise. also, when planting into sand capped dirt, it makes a mess when removing plants. so if you go with sand, make sure you are happy with your aquascape the first time  :Smile:

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## NatureLady

lol! Like I am going to be able to plant something and be happy with it in 2 months. Sand is out.

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## bill

yeah, i haven't used it since......LOL in fact, with the exception of my mantella tank, all of the substrates in my tanks have been black for a long time. in fact, for the longest time, i used to use Black Diamond Sand Blasting Grit. it's black as coal (basically volcanic rock smushed to smithereens) and it's only $8 for 50Lb at tractor supply stores. i KNOW you have to have one of them around you......LOL

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## bill

i actually saw a guy's tank who used mineralized top soil only as a substrate. no cap. just dirt on the bottom. i was thinking about doing that for the 125, but if i do, i wouldn't be able to put substrate in the pond until early summer.

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## NatureLady

Ummm...Yeah I have a healthy amount of tractor supply stores in my area. Black might work...

Ok I have an issue unfolding in the viv...I put silicone on the glass where I was to spray foam. Yesterday I noticed that one area the foam was separating from the silicone. This just so happened to be an area where I had removed some foam that was a, "hey I have more foam in this can let's use it...um, here!" decision, that turned out to be a bad idea in hind sight. But today I noticed it was separating from the other side. Both happen to be the side glass not the back. What should I do to fix this? Smear wood glue into the cracks?

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## bill

> GS does make a black colored foam called Pond & Stone. From what I have read it is less expanding and some said it didn't go as far as the gap and crack GS. 
> 
> As for my experience...I waited about 30 minutes, give or take, and then I pressed (it was still tacky, but it easily came off of my bare hands) on it lightly until I got it to was happy with it. A few places I pressed it flat and a few places I just pressed some of the air out, because it was expanding to places I didn't want it to go. 
> 
> I have a build going called Mossy Frog Build. Go there and I'll tell you which parts I pressed the foam.


this is why you encountered shrinkage. when you press of the foam, it pops all the air bubbles inside, which aid in it's curing process. when you took away the volume, it became liquid underneath and actually started pulling on the rest of the material  :Smile:  lessons learned during building are so fun, aren't they?? LOL

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## bill

oh, and great stuff also makes a fire proof foam, which is black. it is a bit more pricey than the regular, but much, MUCH cheaper than pond foam, which is about 5x the cost of regular GS. at least where i buy it. Walmert has GS for $3/can, my local fish store has pond foam, same size can for $16/can

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## NatureLady

> this is why you encountered shrinkage. when you press of the foam, it pops all the air bubbles inside, which aid in it's curing process. when you took away the volume, it became liquid underneath and actually started pulling on the rest of the material  lessons learned during building are so fun, aren't they?? LOL


Yeah yeah Smarty pants. You will never be able to tell when I am done! I like to break the rules to get my way...bwahahahahahA!

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## NatureLady

Oh and today when buying more Titebond III, I sweet talked the lady who was marking plants down to give me 3 weak little plants for $1.50 total. They will go into one of the upper planters they are Purple Passion,_ Gynura aurantiaca,_ cute little fuzzy dudes. Any experience with them?

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## bill

nope.....but here's a link for ya.... Gynura aurantiaca - Purple Passion Vine - Asteraceae . i'm not sure what purple passion is and i'm pretty sure there is no plants named cute little fuzzy dudes.....LOL


edit: just saw it was all the same (i'm a dumb a$$) you bought 3?????

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## bill

my score today was a nice, stout little philodendron, a juvenile diffenbachia, and a nice, large robust red veined fittonia for $9  :Wink:

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## NatureLady

LOL! I almost bought a bright red veined fittionia, but it was in a highly over priced container. I did buy three, because they are on deaths door step and after reading the article I will be trimming the blooms off as they happen. Yucko, but very cool fuzzy purple leaves. I need more pops of color in the plantings.

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## NatureLady

Update...5 days ago I put the final layer of titebond and crammed as much coco fiber into as possible and then zoomed out of town for a few days for work. Today I got the shop vac out and cleaned out all of the extra stuff and put the finishing touches on the back ground. I walked away and came back to it several hours later, turned it right side up, and found more places to touch up. This phase of the build is finished...about damn time! 


The pieces of paper where on the tank for me to get an idea of what plant is getting planted where. I ordered plants today and I didn't want to have to many plants or not enough...

In a few days I have a few places that need to be siliconed and covered with coco fiber. Maybe, just maybe, one day soon I will be ready to plant.

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## Heather

It's looking fantastic!  :Smile:

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## Eric Walker

Amanda.    I have a purple passion in one of my 40vert dart vivs stuck in a nook of the stump about 2/3 of the way down.  Its doing pretty well for about 3months plus.  Lower light will make it loose its purple shine.   Make sure not to let it stay saturated where it is planted. and it should do ok.  Mine has thrown alo of aerial roots.  Not just from the base.  Very cool little plant that adds a nice color.   That background looks awsome  btw.

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## bill

Well, it's about time you got something done.....lol it's gonna look awesome once it's planted. Don't worry about those touch ups, vines will grow over those spots.  :Smile:

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## NatureLady

> It's looking fantastic!


Thanks Heather. I'm getting excited to see it finished.




> Amanda. I have a purple passion in one of my 40vert dart vivs stuck in a nook of the stump about 2/3 of the way down. Its doing pretty well for about 3months plus. Lower light will make it loose its purple shine. Make sure not to let it stay saturated where it is planted. and it should do ok. Mine has thrown alo of aerial roots. Not just from the base. Very cool little plant that adds a nice color. That background looks awsome btw.


Lowe's almost killed them and while I was away for a work trip I managed to kill them dead. lol. Yes I was gone and killed them. Talent. And thank you  :Wink: 




> Well, it's about time you got something done.....lol it's gonna look awesome once it's planted. Don't worry about those touch ups, vines will grow over those spots.


I did the silicone portion of it today, because it has to be upright and out of work by Wednesday, and I noticed a few more spots that needed touch ups...What I didn't smear with the black silicone and more coco fiber I left alone. I do after all have a desire to finish this project once and for all.

OH...and our next expo is Feb 10th and guess who just confirmed that the breeder is bringing more mossy's...MEEE!!! So excited. I am going to try to pay for them so he will save them for me and I don't miss the chance to get them. I have turned the reptile expo into a family outing. My brother, his family, and mine are planning on making a day of the expo. lol <3

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## Heather

> Thanks Heather. I'm getting excited to see it finished.
> 
> 
> 
> Lowe's almost killed them and while I was away for a work trip I managed to kill them dead. lol. Yes I was gone and killed them. Talent. And thank you 
> 
> 
> 
> I did the silicone portion of it today, because it has to be upright and out of work by Wednesday, and I noticed a few more spots that needed touch ups...What I didn't smear with the black silicone and more coco fiber I left alone. I do after all have a desire to finish this project once and for all.
> ...


Me too! 

The messy silicone step...I'm not looking forward to the step. I'm still debating silicone vs grout. Have you ever tried the grout method? I'm betting its looking great! 

Ooh! I hope you find another mossy  :Smile: .

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## NatureLady

Drum rolllll...it is planted. No one is calling home just yet, but it is beautiful to look at. 


I have replanted the aquatic section again....and may do it again before it is all said and done.

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## bill

that looks GREAT Amanda!! you did and awesome job, it looks killer. it will grow in very nicely. Love the 'shrooms!! hate the duckweed though, but it's your tank, you're the one with aquatic herpes now.....LOL

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## bill

and that last pic is my favorite picture. i love the view of the waterfall  :Smile:

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## NatureLady

ACTUALLY, that is the azola and when I purchased it was my favorite plant that I got. I hate it too!!! It had better turn purple and be lovely, but my hopes are not high. My mossy will be covered in it and that is what I hate.

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## bill

> ACTUALLY, that is the azola and when I purchased it was my favorite plant that I got. I hate it too!!! It had better turn purple and be lovely, but my hopes are not high. My mossy will be covered in it and that is what I hate.


eww....keep me up to date on that stuff. i was going to order it, but now i'm not so sure. besides, i have a few weeks before i really start accumulating plants for the 125.

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## Heather

> and that last pic is my favorite picture. i love the view of the waterfall


Me too! It's so pretty  :Smile: . Great job! I, however, do like the duck weed  :Smile: .

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## NatureLady

BILL - Azolla is a floating fern, you should like it. You are after all on a fern kick at the moment. I am going to try to get it established along the waters edge. It would be great if it would attach and not just free float.

Heather - Thanks so much.

Thanks for following along  :Smile:

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## Heather

Hi! How have you been? How's your Mossy liking his fancy home?

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## NatureLady

Hi Heather!!! I have been good, busy, but good. I have a total of 4 Mossy's now and they are all doing very well. I use the bowl feeding method for them and they chow down more roaches then I would have imagined. I have had a die out of plants (the ones in the back ground planters) and have been hoping to find some better options. To be honest the frogs use them as perches and I haven't looked real hard for replacements. I have several plants on the other hand that are going BONKERS in there. My bonsai tree is doing great, my native stream plant is taking over the first pool, and one of the plants that Bill sent me is growing like a weed. All of my aquatic and marginal plants are starting to put out some beautiful new growth too. I love to sit and watch the fancy guppies my girls picked out for the water area. I will try to post a new photo soon.

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## Heather

Good to hear from you  :Smile: . 

Awe! 4? That's pretty exciting! I can't wait to see them  :Smile: . I love mossies  :Smile: .

I've had that happen in a few of my viv's...some plants that were said to grown well didn't and others grow crazy. 

I'll be looking to see new photos as they pop up  :Smile: .

Glad you stopped by today  :Smile: .

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## NatureLady

lol...me and the panic button are at work today...and it is horribly cold and nasty outside. 

The planters are just much more dry then I had planned for so that is where my plant planning failed.

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## Heather

Lol! Sh...I won't tell  :Smile: . 

Hmmm...good thing to keep in mind. However, there are always plants that don't mind it a little drier  :Smile: .

Any ideas of what you'll put in their place?

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## bill

you have a bonsai in there? i don't remember you telling me that. please tell me you have it planted in a stiff pot?

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## Adam R

your water feature is masterful. i know it is your tank but i personally would not have chosen coco fiber. only because i cant stand the look of it

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## NatureLady

HOLY COW REVIVING A DEAD THREAD!!!

Well let's see it has been a few months shy of a year that this paludarium has been up and running. All four of the residents are getting big. I have a 2.2 combo and we even hear them calling on most nights! It is the wildest sound...almost like a squeaky rocking chair. They even throw their voices so you can never tell just who is really calling and who is not. These frogs are just the coolest things ever and I am all sorts of in love with them.

Plants have come and gone...lighting has changed a few times...but we have a winning combo now and the tank is going bonkers and growing in like crazy. I will admit, my lighting pro did tell me I needed a t5ho and I was a cheap a** and didn't listen...well he proved me right and well a few months ago I purchased my t5ho...BOOM plant growth here there and everywhere!!! So boys and girls listen to your lighting guru and buy a damn good light and do it now! lol

Anyways here are the pix you are really here to see!

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/...psc2e2faf7.jpg

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/...psb927e5f8.jpg

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/...psa2f5f7c8.jpg

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/...psb5c60c00.jpg

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6cbb7733.jpg

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/...ps47810824.jpg

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7b48d873.jpg

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6974374b.jpg

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/...ps15aa0732.jpg

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/...ps80d1b30d.jpg

Thanks for looking!!!

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## NatureLady

**** guys! I am new to photobucket and looks like I copied the wrong link...blah...I'll try to fix this tomorrow after sleep. Sorry  :Frown:

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## bill

Pics are showing up fine. The tank looks amazing! So much growth after the new light. Awesome job Amanda!!

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## Heather

I LOVE this photo! They look great, Amanda!  :Smile:

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## bill

So, I gotta know, who is your guru so I know who to listen to?

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## thadmy

AMAZING build, I'm picking up a few fresh OOW mossys in January and love your tank. I had planned on doing a small stream and love your idea on having pools cascade down the back.. 

I have a question though.. for your cave at the water's edge, is it just a cut back into the GS back to the tanks wall or does it lead to another entrance up somewhere else..

I had though about making a funnel shape with the egg crate and using it to link two openings but wasn't sure if my frogs would hide out in there all the time.

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## Carlos

> **** guys! I am new to photobucket and looks like I copied the wrong link...blah...I'll try to fix this tomorrow after sleep. Sorry


Once you copy the PhotoBucket *IMG* link; paste it directly into your post without using the forum's image utility  :Smile:  .

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## Raya

Gorgoeus tank you got there! I'm very impressed and inspired!  :Smile: 

I agree with you that these frogs are easy to fall in love with. Preparing to get my third species of mossies right now.

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## NatureLady

> So, I gotta know, who is your guru so I know who to listen to?


I would tell you, but he tends to get a big head over stuff like this! LOL




> Once you copy the PhotoBucket *IMG* link; paste it directly into your post without using the forum's image utility  .


Yeah I just copied the wrong link, but since the links still show the pix I am not stressed over the silly mistake! Thanks for your help. Next photo post will be better! MAYBE ... bwahahaha




> Gorgoeus tank you got there! I'm very impressed and inspired! 
> 
> I agree with you that these frogs are easy to fall in love with. Preparing to get my third species of mossies right now.


Raya-Thank you for the kind words!!! I am happy that you liked it and are now inspired! I am totally jealous! I would love to have every species of Mossies out there!!!! These are the only ones I have ever seen at my local reptile shows and maybe one day will see more to purchase.

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## NatureLady

> AMAZING build, I'm picking up a few fresh OOW mossys in January and love your tank. I had planned on doing a small stream and love your idea on having pools cascade down the back.. 
> 
> I have a question though.. for your cave at the water's edge, is it just a cut back into the GS back to the tanks wall or does it lead to another entrance up somewhere else..
> 
> I had though about making a funnel shape with the egg crate and using it to link two openings but wasn't sure if my frogs would hide out in there all the time.


My cave is actually framed with egg crate and then GS'd and covered like the rest of the background. Since the pool has water I wanted it water tight, so no carving. I personally would never suggest a tunnel that I could not access for multiple reasons. The biggest would be hiding frogs that could NOT be retrieved in a worse case situation. 

My frogs absolutely NEVER use the cave, plus they are too big to comfortably fit in it in their adult age (oops...lol). I think I have only seen them hold on to the edge once or twice. I wanted the cave to give them a place to possibly (hopefully) lay their eggs in...since Mossy's are thought to lay eggs on the rocks of their native caves and streams. It is an option for them if they want it tho  :Smile:

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## Cody

Your build is amazing! What a lovely frog I never knew about, I will definitely have to put it on the list of must own herps.

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## NatureLady

Thank you very much Cody! These frogs are awesome and a must on the frog bucket list!!!

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