# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  White's-TreeFrog is being inactive...?

## Crystal6

My White's Tree Frog, Retsu-chi, used to be very active when I got him. For weeks after I got him he would wake up a few hours after the heatlamp turned off and roam around poking at the top of the cage until I let him out and allowed him to explore.(With my supervision of course.)

Lately however he does not do that. (Lately as in, for one week now) He remains in his hiding place asleep unless I take him out for food or handling. Speaking of that I switched my feeding schedule 3 weeks ago to be once a week instead of once every 2 days. He used to eat 6 or 7 crickets at a time during that, this time however he ate only 5 and then immediately lost interest. He favored instead: Jumping out of the cricket gutloading/feeding tank onto the top/side and jumping into his own tank where he proceeded to return to hiding and go back to sleep.

Could this be bad? I don't want him to become totally inactive despite the fact that my tank is long instead of tall. Was it the new feeding arrangements? Or do white's normally do this after a few months of getting used to their homes? (Had him since the show around october 10)

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## Wambli

Has the temp in your house changed?  Has the humidity changed with the temp?  My Dumpys eat 3 times a week... I put 12 crickets in each time... they each have 4 or 5 right a way... then finish the others off the next day.   When my house gets to cold at night they do slow down.  Maybe a form of hibernation... so I try to keep the night temp constant.  My dumpys also love to get out and watch TV every night.  My one red eye (the female) loves to get out and be held... but the male always pees on me... so I dont' get him out as much.  good luck...

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## Crystal6

> Has the temp in your house changed? Has the humidity changed with the temp? My Dumpys eat 3 times a week... I put 12 crickets in each time... they each have 4 or 5 right a way... then finish the others off the next day. When my house gets to cold at night they do slow down. Maybe a form of hibernation... so I try to keep the night temp constant. My dumpys also love to get out and watch TV every night. My one red eye (the female) loves to get out and be held... but the male always pees on me... so I dont' get him out as much. good luck...


Well... it HAS started snowing and therefor the temperature of my house has decreased. (Especially at night. It can get down to 60 in here.)

Should I leave the heat lamp on over night to counteract this? It is red so I worry he will forget the difference between night and day but I don't want him freezing into slowness. It sounds... unnatural....

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## Kurt

You can replace the heat bulb with a ceramic heat emitter. It gives off heat, not light.

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## Crystal6

> You can replace the heat bulb with a ceramic heat emitter. It gives off heat, not light.


"Ceramic Heat Emitter"? Never heard of that. (sounds useful to have in my frozen world...) So now I ask: Cost? Size? Where would I find one? Does it go inside the tank or outside of it?

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## Tropicok

I use a regular 40 watt bulb in the daytime and a 75 watt infrared bulb at night on my terrarium with the screen top.  I use a ceramic bulb in the outdoor shed over my tortoises.  Ceramic bulbs get very hot and can melt plastic. (Trust me on this.)  It's best to hang or suspend them from above so plants, frogs, turtles or the tank don't burn.    I like them because they don't put out any light at night.  I'm still experimenting with light/heat sources and will have to invest in a timer.  I have a new used set up that I am about to fix up, and will pick up frogs at Arlington Show in March.  And Thursday I will be getting the Exo-terra tank with 2 White's tree frogs from a fellow OCHS member.

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## Kurt

It screws into a light socket. It should not be inside the tank, because you don't want the frog coming directly in contact with it. You can find a ceramic heater in Petco or any other pet store for that matter.

http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/En...JIZWF0aW5nIjt9

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## Crystal6

> It screws into a light socket. It should not be inside the tank, because you don't want the frog coming directly in contact with it. You can find a ceramic heater in Petco or any other pet store for that matter.
> 
> http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/En...JIZWF0aW5nIjt9


I am skeptical about it's ability to heat the tank beyond what it is already being heated. (Need a 10-15 degree increase as my house is 60 at night)

Problem 2: I live in a frozen wasteland hundreds of miles from the nearest petco/petco with a good heating device. Is there a way to get them online?

Also, the heat rocks/logs look like they might be useful as well. They wouldn't hurt it's skin or anything would they? *assumes they're used for reptiles and not amphibians*

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## Kurt

Heat rocks are the worst! They are designed to go in with the animal, but often end up burning said animal. Decent pet stores don't carry them.

Ceramic heat emitters can be purchased on-line from just about any where. Petco has on-line shopping, I believe, but so do a lot other stores/vendors. Josh's Frogs and Black Jungle probably have them too.

Oh and they definitely do work. What size tank do you have?

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## Crystal6

> Heat rocks are the worst! They are designed to go in with the animal, but often end up burning said animal. Decent pet stores don't carry them.
> 
> Ceramic heat emitters can be purchased on-line from just about any where. Petco has on-line shopping, I believe, but so do a lot other stores/vendors. Josh's Frogs and Black Jungle probably have them too.
> 
> Oh and they definitely do work. What size tank do you have?


20 gallon. (It's long, not tall)

The bulb I use currently is a 150W "Nocturnal Infrared Heat Lamp". It only seems to raise the temperature maybe 5 degrees.... Right now the tank is 70 according to the thermometer thing I put in there. (My house is generally 60-69 lately. Probably 67ish now)

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## Kurt

I used to use a 40 watt bulb on a ten gallon and it brought it up to 85 - 90 F.

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## Crystal6

> I used to use a 40 watt bulb on a ten gallon and it brought it up to 85 - 90 F.


Then... my themometer is lying and the frog has something else causing this weirdness, or my lamp/lightbulbs suck. Or the tank is simply too big for the entire thing to be very affected by the lightbulb which is tangling about 5 inches above the lid.

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## Kurt

> Or the tank is simply too big for the entire thing to be very affected by the lightbulb which is tangling about 5 inches above the lid.


There's the problem, the bulb is too far away from the tank. When I have used heat bulbs/ceramic heat emitters they were installed in clamp lights that rest on top of the screen mesh of the cage. The mesh is metal. If the mesh is plastic, you cannot rest it on the top of the cage as it will melt. Keep the clamp light away from the any plastic, like the frame of an aquarium. Place it in the middle of the screen top to prevent melting the frame.

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## Kerry1968

Can I jump in here and ask about a similar problem with my White's temperature?

I have a 24" tall Exo terra tank and I have a heat mat on the back (behind the polystyrene 'rock' background) that stays on all the time. During the day I have a red bulb on that sits on top the mesh This raises the temperature up to around 20 degrees at the highest, the rest of the time the tank is at about 18c (64f), I know this is still low for a tree frog, but I'm not sure what to use to raise the temp. When I asked at the shop about a ceramic bulb the girl there said it'll burn through the mesh on the tank. So I went for the 40w red bulb.

Also, as the temperature is dropping so low at night do you think it would be OK to keep the red light on all night?

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## Kurt

You may have to keep it on all night, your temperatures are too low. I think that the polystyrene 'rock' background may be blocking the heat mat's effectiveness.

What's the wattage on the ceramic heater and what is the mesh top made out of?

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## Crystal6

*adjusts heat lamp so it is closer* Now we play the waiting game.

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## gray frog in manitoba

I keep my heat light (one of the red reptile bulbs, 40 watts) on 24 hrs, it has not seemed to change his behavior. Every night between 9 - 10, he becomes alert ~ hops into his water dish and waits to see if its feeding time....

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## Crystal6

Well he seems more active now since the light was lowered/left on 24/7. He looks sleepy though, like his body thinks it's daytime but he knows it's night and warm enough to allow him to explore.

The result is him just kinda sitting halfway out of his hiding place staring sleepily at the glass. (He looks healthy as ever. Just that his pupils are small like they are in the daytime and he's not climbing around, suggesting the advertisement of this heat bulb being "nocturnal" may be stretched.)

But yeah... breathing is normal and he appears at least somewhat more active then before. Before he litterally did not leave that spot all week. I put crickets in there to prove it. (When he was active he would do everything in his power to reach the crickets even if there's glass and 10 feet between them.)

Now my only worry is rather or not he'll adapt to constantly red light with no periods of darkness until summer.

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## Kurt

I would shut the light off at night. If you need continued heat, use a ceramic heat emitter instead of a heat bulb. The frog needs the darkness to properly function.

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## Kerry1968

Sorry to interrupt the thread again.

I missed your reply earlier Kurt, sorry.

I don't know what the watt of the ceramic lamp was, the mesh on the top of the tank is metal. I replaced the 40w bulb for a 100w bulb, it made a couple of degrees difference to the temperature but after 5 days of having it on continually, the bulb has blown! It wasn't cheap either! Grrrr

I'm thinking it'll have to be a ceramic bulb during the day and a red bulb at night to stop the temperature dropping too low.

Also where would be the best place to put the heat mat for maximum benefit? I have around 3 inches of water in the bottom of the tank, so the bottom is out. I was concerned about putting the heat mat where the frog can sit directly on it (through the glass) as I thought it might burn the frog?

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## Crystal6

> I would shut the light off at night. If you need continued heat, use a ceramic heat emitter instead of a heat bulb. The frog needs the darkness to properly function.


I am.. hesitent. He was very wake last night. So much that he started trying to bust out of the cage. O_O I'm glad to have him back to normal but I'm not sure I will be able to get a ceramic. (Pretend I live in a void where I can only recieve items from mail except for aquariums. Walmart seems to have those...)

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## Kurt

So mail order a ceramic heater or take a ride down to Zoo Creatures in Plaistow, well worth the trip. (Right now they have Malaysian horned frogs and white-lipped treefrogs in stock) I just wouldn't leave the light on 24/7 or as Jake Harper says "31".

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## Crystal6

> So mail order a ceramic heater or take a ride down to Zoo Creatures in Plaistow, well worth the trip. (Right now they have Malaysian horned frogs and white-lipped treefrogs in stock) I just wouldn't leave the light on 24/7 or as Jake Harper says "31".


150 watt I'm guessing? Or would 250 watt be better?

Either way it'll take a while to get here... Should I just leave it on in the mean time? (It is torturous to me to see my pet so cold he won't move)

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## Kurt

No do not leave it on 24/7. To do so is to cause stress to a nocturnal animal that needs the dark as much as you need the light. You can partialy cover the cage with a blanket at night to retain some heat.

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## gray frog in manitoba

Was at my local cricket supplier / pet store (local mom and pop shop), and was discussing the usage of the red reptile lights with one of the employees. She was adament that frogs (like reptiles) can not see this type of light :Confused:  and does not affect them. I have no idea if she is correct...is there any real data on this subject?

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## Kurt

Had how does person know this for sure? Many mammals have trouble seeing colors, some can only see shapes (rhinos come to mind). Humans are one of the few that can see color. 
Reptiles have full color range possibly greater than our own. Birds definitely have greater color vision then us, seeing colors we do not see. Frogs too have full color vision. How it compares to ours I do not know, but they can see a red light.
Now if you take a dog for instance, it has a very limited color range, seeing the world in an almost black and white state. They are unable to see red or green, but I am willing to bet if you had a red light on he could still see it. It just wouldn't be able to register the color of said light.

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## gray frog in manitoba

Yes, what you say make sense, but am hoping that I am not doing any damage....its going to be minus 30 celsius tonite, with a windchill warning of -48 (frostbite can occur in 2 to 5 minutes)...needless to say its hard to keep the house warm, so the lamps are staying on :Smile: ! I should be raising sled dogs instead of keeping frogs....

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## Crystal6

> Yes, what you say make sense, but am hoping that I am not doing any damage....its going to be minus 30 celsius tonite, with a windchill warning of -48 (frostbite can occur in 2 to 5 minutes)...needless to say its hard to keep the house warm, so the lamps are staying on! I should be raising sled dogs instead of keeping frogs....


Welcome to my world! You should buy a ceramic heater like I plan to one day when Christmas isn't imposing on me. (For now I just have to hope the frog survives the cold of nights)

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## kimburrlee

i have two whites dumpy tree frogs. one named tatupu is very active and very friendly he always have a HUGE appitite, but my other dumpy tree frog Hoosh he doesnt have an appitite at all. its always so hard to get him to eat anything!! im lucky if he gives in. i always separate them and put hoosh in a smaller tank with about two cricketts till he eats or i give up becuase the temp and humidity arent very good in the smaller tank so i dont want to keep him in there for a very long time. if i put cricketts in our big tank then my other frog tatupu will eat them all at any chance he gets. also with my littler frog hoosh if i dont wake him up he sleeps in the same spot all day and all night for days at a time i hardly ever see him waking up at night. hes never in his water dish he just has one spot and sleeps there all the time. im horrified hes going to die and i dont know what to do with him. our tank stays at around 70 to 80 dagrees and humidity at all times. i know its not from that. and they have a nice home i just dont know what to do. we had them in the smaller tank and he was active but we felt we should have gotten them a bigger one and ever since weve had their big tank he just sleeps someone help me understand whats going on with my little hoosh. also ive noticed that in the day time tatupu will sleep ontop of hoosh all day till he wakes up at night when we turn on the night light and tatupu will hop around the cage and eat and play in his water dish but hoosh just lays there. i feel like tatupu sleeps on top of him becuase he knows he might be sick or somthing. idk. i dont see anything wrong with our frog from the outside. but i dont know what to do. . please help me out!!

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## Kurt

It sounds like the frog is sick. He needs to see the vet, actually both will if they are roommates. Now if your country and location were posted it would make it easier for us to, hopefully, find you a frog-savy vet.

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