# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > General Discussion >  unfinished shedding?

## awelcome

I turned my light on and and went to feed my cobalt this morning and noticed he hadn't finished shedding fully.  You can see it as a sort of brownish line that goes around his head/back starting just above his front legs.  I wondered what, if anything, I should do?  Is it likely he'll still be able to finish it himself, or do you think he failed to get it all and it might cause an issue?  Thanks.

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## ColleenT

try putting a bowl of dechlorinated water in the tank, wash your hands and gently drop him in. it might loosen the excess skin. not deep water and remove it after the dunk.

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## awelcome

He seemed unconcerned, and was just hunting away.  I ended up spritzing him with the spray bottle a few times which loosened it up some more and then as he was hunting I watching him kick the left over part off.  It was weird, because I thought they pushed it off towards their mouths and ate it.... but maybe this was just a piece that was left on top and not the main part of it.  Anyway, it looks to be gone now, but I will check again a little later to make sure.

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## Heather

They generally will not eat any left over dry patches.

How is the humidity in the tank? 

A nice lukewarm dechlorinated water soak or spritz can help. 

Prevention is best. They will shed nicely if they are well-hydrated. Concerns of dry skin or a dry shed:

Less oxygenation through skin due to tough, dry skin

Concerns for skin tears while trying to remove shed (never pull it off for them, just rehydrate)

Loss of electrolyte transfer 

I'm guessing you might just need to boost tank humidity?

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## awelcome

it stays pretty consistently around 90% according to the hygro (digital exoterra I think it is) and sometimes higher.  I spray twice a day generally and there is a water bowl with dechlorinated water.

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## Amy

Just a word of caution, my digital exo terras consistently say 99% even though the humidity is much lower.  It might help to get multiple hygrometers in there until you have more experience with your frog and viv.  I think Paul mentioned the other day that he thought there might be a humidity issue in your viv also.  I would lean heavily towards that being the issue with stuck shed.

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## awelcome

I just have that one and an analog one but I will put that one in there again just to see what it says for now.  I also just sprayed it down really well in there again.

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## Lynn

Alicia,
There  should be visible moisture droplets  on the glass MOST of the time 24/7.
There should be NO screening in the lid. 
The screen of an exo terra needs to be replaced with glass if it's housing dart frogs.

 :Butterfly:

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## awelcome

analog is reading almost exactly the same (90%).  There is water on my glass most of the time, at least the sides.  The front is often fogged up too, but I don't spray that one.  The top does have the screen which I will likely remove sooner or later, but it is completely covered by glass as well.

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## Paul

*Specific humidity*_Specific humidity_ (or moisture content) is the ratio of water vapor mass () to the air parcel's _total_ (i.e., including dry) mass () and is sometimes referred to as the humidity ratio. Specific humidity is approximately equal to the "mixing ratio", which is defined as the ratio of the mass of water vapor in an air parcel to the mass of _dry_ air for the same parcel.


*What is condensation and what is causing it to form?* 


Condensation is water vapor from the air that is deposited on a surface when the humid 
air near the surface is cooled. The water forms since cool air is not able to hold as much 
water vapor as warm air. 


*What is humidity? 

*
Humidity is the moisture in the air. It is usually only visible when it is in a concentrated 
form such as steam vapor or ground fog. Otherwise, all air contains a certain level of 
invisible moisture. 

Alicia,

As I said to you the other day. You should see more water on the glass of your tank than you have if the humidity was really up in the 90% range as your Hydrometer is claiming. I posted some information above my comments to help you better understand humidity and how it reacts to surfaces with different temperatures.

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## Lynn

Alicia,
If the frog has left over shed on him, the enclosure is not humid enough. It's really as simple as that  :Smile: 
Spray more ! Most hygrometers on the market are not reliable, and in fact probably..... useless. Ignore it  :Big Grin: 

The frog's shed should be very slimy looking. 

I had a few hygrometers that never moved from 90%.. I tossed them !!!!!

Another hint that the humidity is too low is to observe your forg.
He may hide and stay in the dampest areas of the enclosure.

Does the frog have a source of water in the tank.... ie a dish he can sit in?

 :Butterfly:

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## Paul

Alicia,

I really do hope you follow the advice given here. The original purpose of this thread to discuss an unfinished shed screams low humidity. 

btw how much water is in your drainage layer now? Can we get a picture? please  :Smile:  and thank you


Also can we get a picture of the tank top with the glass on it?

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## awelcome

I appreciate it, and am not arguing that it might not be as humid as it says I am just answering the questions as I can and telling you what I see.  I am also trying to do the things you say, like spray more.  The shed did look slimy.  When he pulled it off with his foot it was like a string of mucus.  He doesn't hide in any one particular spot during the day and is all over the tank.  Yes, he has a water dish to chin height of dechlorinated water.  Water level in drainage layer is still about halfway maybe higher... tried to get a shot, but it's dark in room so hard to see because of the bright light of the tank to the dark room.  I am also sharing some pics of the glass, which as you can see is quite wet.  I haven't sprayed since earlier today.  You can also see the foggy condensation on all sides.  And a couple inside shots to show things are in fact wet.  Oh and it's also hard to see the glass on top, but I tried to get some pics.  It's a large piece of glass that fits between the two tabs used to open the top piece and covers the entire thing quite well, and so far I keep a good eye on the screen it is showing no signs of rust as of yet, which I understand it likely will, and I will deal with it when I get a chance.  I am just not ready to rely on the glass alone since at this time it's not cut to fit or anything.

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## Heather

Hi Alicia,



This picture here is how wet you want it everywhere. Spray that baby down. My babies are all sleeping so I can't take a pic right now. It should look like a fresh rain just came down. 

I have a suggestion... Can you remove the foam back and add some more plants? Live plants will help to hold moisture in. The dew lingers on the plants.

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## Paul

Alicia,

I have been on pens and needles waiting for the pics lol. 

From what the pictures show everything does indeed look good to me. The glass looks like a tank with very high humidity. The glass top probably is letting some air and humidity out, but not so much that I would point at it and cry foul. The water level in the Drainage layer is spot on. Some with say that you want that to be nearly full, but without a hole drilled in your tank for drainage to keep it from swamping out the soil I would say you have it at a good level.

Only thing I am left with is maybe it wasn't a dry shed. Maybe he was shedding and the light interrupted him so he came out half dressed looking for food.... I see no red flags. Others may, but I think you have everything setup good  :Smile:

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## awelcome

that's a relief to hear because I don't know what else I could really do lol.  I thought the same... maybe I interrupted him and he was more interested in hunting then.  It did come off easily, I just hadn't seen him leave any before.  I spray again at night when I turn the lights off, so I will make sure to get it nice and wet.  The foam is going to have to stay though... and me and plants aren't good friends lol.  I am lucky to have the 5 that are in there now... yeah the 6th is gone.  He broke the last two stalks off yesterday... hoping maybe it will just miraculously sprout back up someday.

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## awelcome

Well I don't know.... since that day I have thought I saw very trace amounts still on his lower/middle back and today I am pretty sure because they look a little brownish.  So either he missed a little more that time, or he has shed again and missed some this time as well.  Humidity was even higher in the tank this morning when I checked than it typically says though so I don't know what else I could do.  How often do they shed?  I tried to spray it and he sat there and let me a bunch but it didn't loosen up enough to slide around or anything like the part that I saw before.  This is a much smaller area and not a string of it, more like a patch.  If he hasn't shed again since the last time, would this come off with the next shed do you think?  I will keep spraying it as he allows me to see if I can help loosen, but for now he's eating again.  I could be wrong and it could be a dirty spot or something, but I just feel like it is skin.

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## ColleenT

can you put him in a gladware container with air holes and dechlorinated water, just for a little while, and keep an eye on him? this may loosen the shed.

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## awelcome

I just sprayed him some more and I can see it flap around a little now, but still won't quite come off, and I am not sure he can reach it.  Perhaps if he rubs up on a leaf or something as he climbs around later it might... I barely tried to touch it with a soft chopstick I use to nudge his butt sometimes to move him from a spot, but it didn't work and I didn't want to touch him too harshly.

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## awelcome

problem is the spot of his back it's on wouldn't necessarily be under water if he was soaking without issue of him drowning.  He's not a swimmer.

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## ColleenT

maybe put on a rubber glove-the thin ones, not the kitchen ones, and wet your glove and try to rub it off. i know it's stressful for him, but so is a stuck shed.

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## awelcome

Well, he was being super cooperative and sitting right up front for me so I sprayed a bit more and finally go the main piece.  It was kind of funny because when I spray his back he lifts his head and lets me like he enjoys it, or appreciates the help anyway lol.  There are a couple small specks left, but I am going to leave it now.  He was hunting around the entire time I was helping him so pretty sure he's not stressed about it lol.  I was able to get it with short quick sprays from different angles to finally loosen it where it held the strongest.  

On a side note... I have noticed since day one that his back is not only very ridged, but pretty unevenly so.  Is that normal?  Like he has the two ridges down the sides, but one side sticks out way further than the other and is especially noticeable sometimes when he sits like that with his head up and back straight.  I wonder if all those bumps/curves/dips in that area makes the shedding process a little trickier and why he had an issue.

I'd be too afraid to rub it off with a glove... I have never touched him because they said not to and I know it can hurt them.  I have treated him VERY delicately lol.  When I touch him with the soft chopstick I just ever so barely do it because I am paranoid lol.

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## ColleenT

dart frogs do have weird skeletal systems, i would not be super concerned about it unless he is unable to function. glad you got some off him.

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## Paul

What are soft chopsticks....

I would leave him to his own devices on the shed. He will take car of himself. It is probably leftover shed from the last failed shed attempt. If the humidity in the tank is high enough everything should be fine. 

This could also be related to stress from him wanting to be in a larger enclosure, but I am just speculating.

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## awelcome

it's a chopstick that is super smooth and rounded vs the crappy ones that are like square and ridged lol.  Just something I had that I use for nudging him aside if he's too close to the door when I need to get in there.  I'll leave him.  He really doesn't act stressed ever, but either way a larger enclosure is not in the cards right now.

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