# Frogs & Toads > Fire Belly Toads (Bombina) >  New species for me and need help

## Buck Rogers

Hi all

This is a thread I thought I would never have the opportunity to post under, but I just was given a fire bellied toad. This is a huge thing for me because exotic amphibs are extremely rare and illegal in South Africa. I am going to collect these 2 (hopefully 2) in the next few hours as the guy who owned them feels he does not have time for them and wants me to take them and look after them. I have only ever kept South African frog species so I am defecating bricks for a choice of better words.

I really think they are not in great shape and will need a lot of nursing. I am thinking of keeping them in an Addis style tub with sphagnum moss and a water bowl till I can see some improvement and feeding from them, then I will move them to a properly equipped viv. Will they easily take pin crickets and flightless fruit flies - from what I saw they really small, smaller than a US Quarter coin. 

I just need some help and advice of what I should do from here, I know they should have a basking light (30w and lower) and cool water, but keeping them in a tub to monitor them is going to make that almost impossible so I would really appreciate any help i can get from the guys who have had first hand experience with working with this species. Should I place a heating mat under one section so that there can be some warmth or should I just rely on room temperature (which is dropping in the low 20's C at the moment in South Africa)? 

I do not know the sub species but I can take a photo tonight and post it so that you guys can help me ID the exact locality to set up a viv to suit the temps.

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## JeffX

20 degrees celsius is fine for temperature.  I wouldn't go any higher than 28 degrees celsius though.  They tend to like a cooler environment.  Some people use a basking light.  I've never used one for mine.  They do like it though.  

They'll probably take small crickets, waxworms, phoenix worms.  Fruit flies might be too small for these guys as they eat alot.

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## Kurt

I don't use basking lights with my fire-bellies. Check out the care articles for more information.

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## Buck Rogers

I've gone over the caresheet and seems pretty straight forward. I greatly underestimated the size of this little one, it is really small! I chucked in some flightless fruit flies and straight away ate them, crickets it was not too interested in. I am concerned though, this little one seems to have a very large head in proportion to its body, in other species I would have said this has been 'starved' but is this normal for them to have large heads? 

I will snap some shots so that you can let me know if this is normal but just left it alone tonight.

Thanks for the help!

Oh and 2 painted reed frogs came with this one as well, so fun, fun, fun in my house tonight!

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## Kurt

Painted reeds? Awesome! Sounds like your fire-bellies are under weight.

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## John Clare

Congratulations on your new acquisitions Darryn.  Best of luck with them.

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## Buck Rogers

It is extremely under weight, it looks like it ate quite a lot last night so going to keep feeding it steady amounts till it gets to a proper size, apparently its over a year old but its just way too small for this age. I read the caresheet and did some searches for more information and feel that I know what I am doing, its always just a bit nerve raking to get a species you have never worked with.

Kurt - The reed frogs made me very nervous, I have tried to keep them before with no success so was not too excited about taking them on, but last night it looks like the larger of the 2 ate a few flightless fruit flies and small crickets. 

I have all of these frogs in temporary Addis/Tupperware tubs for the time being so that I can keep them warm and monitor their eating.

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## Kurt

Make sure the reed frogs have good ventilation. Good luck wit these guys.

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## Buck Rogers

These are the pics I promised of the FBT, this little guy (assuming its male, please confirm) is supposed to be over a year old and as you can see is really small. I moved him from a small temporary housing to a larger one and really stoked to see that he is very active and eating nicely. I really think this will turn out nicely. Any idea of the actual species based on these photos?






These are the 2 painted reed frogs which were also given to me, you can see how small the little one is which is really intimidating, but I have seen it chasing little crickets which is a good start. The larger one is feeding like a demon which is fantastic. I have not had great success with these in the past so really stoked to see they doing well :Smile: 

Kurt - why do you say they should have good ventilation, this particular species came from Kwa-Zulu Natal which has an extremely high humidity (similar to Florida, USA), so my thinking was too give them really nice humidity. Basically I am keeping them like hatchling Chondro Pythons, in an Tupperware that's a bit taller, with moist paper towel, and a large water bowl. The tupperware is sitting on top of another enclosure so it  catches some of the warmth form a heating pad which is creating the humidity in the Tupperware. 

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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## Kurt

It has been my experience that arboreal frogs do not do well in a tank that has little to no ventilation. They just slowly waste away. I have red-eyes, a frog that needs some decent humidity, but the tanks have to be venitlated or they die. So I mist them once a day, making sure the substrate is moist. They also have a large water bowl to bathe in and they do fine.

The first picture makes me think that it an_ orientalis_. The second one two, but less sure of it.

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## Buck Rogers

Thanks for the feedback Kurt, I'm going to now re-think the setup for the reed frogs. Originally my idea was to put them in a tall hexagon fish tank with 1/3 water and various plants in ceramic pots. I was going to use a small fish tank heater to warm the water in winter months to around 20C. What would you recommend?

I kept a similar tree species from Kwa-Zulu Natal and because I couldn't get the temps higher than 23 C they all died off so that is why I am thinking of keeping the temps higher with humidity.

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## Kurt

As long as it has good ventilation, your set-up sounds fine. The one problem I see is, how are you going to feed them? Feeder insects, like crickets, have a tendency drown. You will have to most likely feed them in another enclosure. Then again friut flies maybe able to climb of the water's surface.

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## Buck Rogers

I was planing on having a division of land to water, the only reason why I wanted to do it this way was to be able to keep the warmth and humidity up, but what I am thinking now is to get some 25W heating cable and run it on the back of the viv with a large water bowl close to the heating cable to create some humidity. I want this to be at the front door in my house so its a nice and small little display piece, but with me things change at least 100 times before I do anything.

But back to the topic at hand, the FBT is doing really well, ate 2 large meal worms yesterday and some pin head crickets last night, the 2 reed frogs are also eating really well even the small one which I thought wouldn't. SO looks like things are going well so far.

Thanks for all the helpful advice!

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## Kurt

That's awesome. You're welcome.

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## Alex Moss

> These are the pics I promised of the FBT, this little guy (assuming its male, please confirm) is supposed to be over a year old and as you can see is really small. I moved him from a small temporary housing to a larger one and really stoked to see that he is very active and eating nicely. I really think this will turn out nicely. Any idea of the actual species based on these photos?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the 2 painted reed frogs which were also given to me, you can see how small the little one is which is really intimidating, but I have seen it chasing little crickets which is a good start. The larger one is feeding like a demon which is fantastic. I have not had great success with these in the past so really stoked to see they doing well
> 
> ...


Hello BuckRogers, your Bombina is an orientalis. I keep these plus 3 European species - B.bombina/B.variegata/B.scabra. Cheers, Al

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## Buck Rogers

I just wanted to give some feedback. All three are feeding really well and growing nicely, even that tiny little reed frog has doubled in size. I have started some work on a nice natural viv for the FBT and looking forward to posting pics and getting every ones feedback on that.

I was wondering if anyone can help me sex the FBT based on the pics, I am assuming that it is male because its back is very course and read that the females have a smoother back, am I correct?

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## Terry

> I just wanted to give some feedback. All three are feeding really well and growing nicely, even that tiny little reed frog has doubled in size. I have started some work on a nice natural viv for the FBT and looking forward to posting pics and getting every ones feedback on that.
> 
> Glad to hear the your FBTs are doing well 
> 
> I was wondering if anyone can help me sex the FBT based on the pics, I am assuming that it is male because its back is very course and read that the females have a smoother back, am I correct?


You are correct. Males have black-tipped warts on their back and upper legs. Also, breeding males develop nuptial pads, which are darkened, rough patches on their fingers and forearms that are used to hold the female during amplexus.

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## Buck Rogers

Hi all

Here's an updated pic of my FBT, to me he hasn't grown much cause I've seen some big FBTs out there and to me my lil guy seems tiny. He eats very well and spends a lot of his time in the water just chilling on the bank. Seems to enjoy mealworms a lot more than crickets though.

Well enough chit chat, here he is:




Any idea on locality based on the yellow under belly?

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## Jace

*Wow, Darryn, he looks very good, and plumping up nicely.  I have never seen such vivid yellow on a FBT before-all of mine have orange to red underbellies.  Thanks for keeping us updated on him and all the best with all your frogs and toads.*

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## Jace

*Darryn, I found the following information in one of my books, "Your Happy Healthy Pet: Frogs and Toads 2nd Edition" by Steve Grenard. * 

*"The yellowbelly toad (Bombina variegata) is a native of Europe.  It has a greenish back and yellow underbelly interspersed with blotches of black.  This species grows to about 1 1/2 inches, s-v length."  Otherwise, their care and setups are the same as other Fire Belly toad species. *

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## Buck Rogers

And that's why I post here, such quick and helpful responses! Thank you so much  :Big Applause: 

I must admit, I have really become attached to this little guy. They truely are comical and very lovable lil chaps. This little guy has learnt that if he swims up to the side of his tank and leans against the glass I'll throw a mealworm in the water for him  :Frog Smile:

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## Jace

*I have 8 Bombina orientalis and each one has a different personality.  They seem to learn fairly quickly who brings the food!    Glad you are enjoying him-they are pretty hard to resist.*

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## Kurt

> *Darryn, I found the following information in one of my books, "Your Happy Healthy Pet: Frogs and Toads 2nd Edition" by Steve Grenard.*




Some of my frogs are in that book. Pages 37, 39, 40, 44, 53, 55, & 58
 




> *"The yellowbelly toad (Bombina variegata) is a native of Europe. It has a greenish back and yellow underbelly interspersed with blotches of black. This species grows to about 1 1/2 inches, s-v length." Otherwise, their care and setups are the same as other Fire Belly toad species.*


This toad is not _variegata_, its just an _orientalis_ that didn't get enough carotene in its diet.

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## Jace

*Good to know.  So it's not an actual species of Fire Belly?  Is that why you don't see the yellow underbelly very often?  Except for the above mentioned book and Darryn's photo, I have never seen that colouring before.*

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