# Frogs & Toads > Other Frogs & Toads >  75 Gallon Vivarium build

## AAron

I have had a few threads on here about all the stuff I'm thinking of using for this. I have decided to just use a regular 75 gallon (since Amazon raised the price about $250 for the previous enclosure I was going to get) for a western PA style Vivarium for a pair of American Toads and 
Northern Leopard Frogs. I will be posting to this thread as more begins to unfold. As for now, I just purchased  the zoo med 100 watt ceramic heater. I'm hoping this will provide a warm side to the tank and leave a cooler side as well. I am also hoping that this will be the primary, if not only heat source that can be used over the winter. I am basically sold on the plants to use for this. Dragon's Tail Ferns, Bamboo, Myrtle (periwinkle) Ribbon Grass, Duckweed, Leaf Litter, and Moss. I will be using 48" T5 Quad High Output Light Fixture with Timer for lighting. I'm not sure what I want to do for a water feature. Open for Suggestions. I also hope to breed them. It's not my first intention but, with the ideal setup I am really hoping for it. The humidity will be kept in check by my Monsoon RS400 misting system, which I will be getting the extender so the enclosure gets double the misting. I'm  also looking into the Reptifogger as a secondary for humidity. (It looks cool in my WTF setup) 


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## bill

Looking forward to seeing what you do with that size tank. Just out of curiosity, what species of bamboo are you going with? There are very few species that will grow small enough to keep in a Viv. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## AAron

Not 100% on the bamboo, I got some at a local lowes and really liked it. If you have suggestions on bamboo that is more local (because I'm guessing it is tropical at lowes) i would greatly appreciate it. I have had the bamboo 6 months and it hasn't grown much. 


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## bill

Ah, I think we may have our signals crossed, so to speak. I think you are talking about "lucky bamboo". It's not really bamboo, but a species of dracaena. We don't have any native bamboo species in our neck of the woods. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## AAron

That's what it is haha, it looks nice and is still small, I think I may have to rethink about the "lucky bamboo" 


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## AAron

Just caught the male toad that will go in this build. He is a little guy but is mature enough to mate (pictures soon), I have decided to name him King II for homage to a previous toad years ago that I caught and let go. Also got the stand and the ceramic heater. More details on that soon, anyways, this week I will buy hygrometers and thermometers, the bedding (Eco Earth), some zoo med logs, and possibly one of the plants. I'll be sure to give updates when I advance more on this. 


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## Krispy

This is awsome! Cant wait to see!

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

I just bought 18 bricks of Eco Earth for $21, the extra suction cups, tubing, misters, and extender as well. So there will be 4 sprayers going at once. I figured out how I'm going to have their environment, like what "weather" if you will, they will experience. It goes as follows: 
Exo Terra Fogger
2 Hours in morning

T5 Fans on 30 Minutes in morning (same time as Fogger)

T5 Lights on 
9-12 Hours during day

Ceramic Heat Emitter on
9-12 Hours during day  

Ceramic Heat Emitter on
8-10 Hours at night

Monsoon RS400 Mister on 
10-20 minutes at night

LED lights on
2-3 Hours at night
I will post all the stuff so far including the Stand, Myrtle, and Toad when I have the things I just ordered as well. 




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## bill

Wow. 2 hours of fog and 10-20 minutes on the mister? I see a LOT of draining and refilling in your future.  :Wink: 


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Hahaha maybe I will adjust it to around 5-15 minutes to mist. It's supposed to keep it humid most of the night. The fog shouldn't do to much but make things slightly damp. I will be using sand and a bit of large river rocks as a drainage layer so I should be ok. Like I said I'm spit balling ideas to see what responses come back. It starts out as a good thought and gets a little help then becomes a great idea. I am okay with draining the water as long as I can stop it before it reaches my substrate. So I will have to play around and see what will work and why they like. I have some interesting news on the Leopard Frog and American Toad who have been living together since January. When I came into my room I saw them sitting right next to each other. My mom said they were sitting in the same spot I found them for a while.   I'm not a guy who gets choked up easily but, the way they were sitting next to each other made me feel great inside because they are very close. They like each other's presence. I managed to get some photos of them. Not the best but you'll get the point 
 
Spot (Leopard Frog) is hard to see because he is green. But keep your eyes peeled. Can't wait to get this project into high gear for these guys. 


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## AAron

I managed to get a few pics of the new Toad King II
 
He is starting to get used to captivity. I also got some snapshots of everything but the stand and the plants. 
I will be getting the Sand, River Rock, & Topsoil this week. Possibly other supplies as well. I'll make sure to update when I have all the details. 


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## bill

He's a handsome little devil!!! 


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

He is the only Toad I know that screams when he catches a cricket. He makes the noise like he is being disturbed and he then eats it. I think my other toad has become bored or she is full because she wouldn't take any food for the first time ever and I noticed her sleeping with her eyes closed. I was concerned she was sick or something. When I took her out to hop around she was very curious trying to climb the toilet and air conditioner. She was very aware and fast. I'm going to change everyone's habitat today so hopefully that will help. The WTF's and Leopard Frog are doing fantastic. 


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## AAron

A few plants already down and ready for the build.  a piece of a North Carolina Canna Plant (which got attacked by something the other night) and some Myrtle from where I work. Also  Duckweed will be one of the few water plants. Along with this "Clover" which is actually a fern. I'm thinking of using it. Opinions of this plant and how it will do are welcomed


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## bill

A few notes about the plants. The myrtle (vinca minor) will do fine. When you say canna, I am assuming you mean canna lily, plant those in the yard, they grow about 6 feet. The clover is  not a fern, but marsilea quadrifolia "fake 4 leaf clover". The duckweed, is not duckweed, but azolla caroliniana, a fern  :Smile:  both of those will do well in your tank. 


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Oh my gosh, I'm going to take some of these people to court. That is the 4th time I bought a plant that was misinforming. I'm going to get the other variety they had. The stuff that looks like actual duckweed. So the fake 4 leaf clover will do well? Good. I'm glad it will because it looks very cool. I have noticed the Myrtle a lot. Some is seeming to thrive and some pieces of it is dying. I think it's trying to adjust to the inside temps. Thanks for the info. I still have to get the ribbon grass and dragon's tail ferns. I'm hoping to have the stand put up. Then I can move things out to the hallway. More info soon


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## bill

This is true duckweed, lemna minor. Now you know why I am such a stickler for botanical names. Common names are too vague most of the time. And what one person calls duckweed, another calls it by something else. I know of about 7 different species that are called 'baby tears', how is that one for confusing? Lol


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

That's the stuff I wanted! It's just the place didn't get any in. So they had the other stuff and called it duckweed. When summer comes I will get more into the scientific names and etc. It's good we have people like you who can pinpoint exactly a specific species and give real info on it. Better than an encyclopedia. Haha, but I'm going to get some of that too. Will the stuff I got now spread like duckweed? 


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## bill

Duckweed grows rampant in most slow moving water areas, like ponds and lakes. Take a stroll to a local lake, equipped with a fish net. You'll get all the duckweed you want lol


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## AAron

Getting close to getting the tank and lighting system. I am proud to say I'm done with the stand. Special thanks to my dad for working hard on the boards on the top and bottom. 
I have more plants bought. The a Ribbon Grass. It's in this pic with the Myrtle (pay no attention to the canna plants)
more good news is the one Toad who was having trouble and didn't eat burrowed down for about 4 days and she ate tonight and seems to be recovering from the heat that plagued my room and mating season. She is starting to get better. So far 3 of the 4 animals do well together (don't have the female Leopard Frog yet until tank gets finished and started up).  I will continue to give updates on progress and how animals and plants are doing. Also WTFs on other posts in the meantime. 



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## AAron

Most likely getting the Tank this week. The substrate will go as follows 


Layers 

Drainage Layer:
Large River Rock

Inner Substrate
Sand

Median Substrate 
Topsoil, Sand

Outer  Substrate
Leaf Litter, Moss, Eco Earth, Topsoil

I also ordered the ferns. After the tank I'm getting the lighting, Female Leopard Frog, and feeders. I would like to stalk this for them the best I can to make it as authentic as possible, so I'm going to get Earthworms, Wax Worms, Woodlice, Crickets, Some Mealworms, Silk Worms, Dubia Roaches, and allow them to feed like in the wild. I will put mallet spray in the tank if you have a bird it's seeds for birds but crickets seem to love it, they will also have water and plants to use if they choose. The Frogs and Toads would have to actually hunt their food because of the space and hiding places. The only sketchy idea is the crickets so I'll monitor that. But I think it's a great idea and think the animals will love it. Suggestions and advice for anything is welcome. 


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## bill

I would rethink the substrate. The topsoil/sand combo it going to compact and hinder drainage.  :Frown: 


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

I thought it would help out, good thing I put it on here before I bought the sand. I did purchase top of the line topsoil from where I work ( I get 20% off and get to bag it  :Smile: ) so I will be using that. Thanks for the feedback again. I'm so close to building all this!


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## bill

Add some fir bark in it. (Reptibark). It will help with drainage.  And EXPECT a lot of bugs. Especially worms, fungus gnats and nematodes. 


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## AAron

With the for bark? Would the fungus and nematodes bother the frogs or toads?


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## bill

Mix the fir bark into the topsoil. It will help with drainage. 

The nematodes won't hurt the frogs, but will snack on any microfauna in the tank. 


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## AAron

So that is like the Zilla Repti bark then, right? I have seen it in lots of videos but never used it before. So I will definitely look into bark. I was thinking of just getting a pond snail for the water portion. It would help with the clean up crew and the minnows would either be eaten or be kind of cramped for space because I'm only using a big bin as a water source (when I find the perfect size) and I don't think it would be fair.

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## bill

Yes, that's the stuff. It will keep your topsoil from compacting too quickly. A snail would be perfect if you are not going to use a permanent water feature. I definitely would not put fish in it. 


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## AAron

I got the Tank and started working on it tonight. I got the rocks laid out, the topsoil layered, the Eco Earth layered, and the mix of topsoil and Eco Earth on the top. I also put possibly all the moss in. I managed to take a few snapshots. 
 
I'm hoping to get the leaf litter and possibly chips put in. Then I will slowly put some plants in and accessories. 


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## AAron

About finished with the build. I'm doing the water feature after I get everything else done. I am waiting on the light fixture and then I will finish up. 

I will be making videos again when everything is finished. 


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## Vivariums In The Mist

Looking good

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

I introduced the Toads and Leopard Frog to it. I put some water and rocks for them to get out easily. They won't have many distractions now that the plants and hides and accessories are all in. The mister has to get hooked up and the lights are really all that's left. Also a new female Leopard Frog coming soon. Pictures coming soon


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## AAron

The Frogs and Toads love their new home. Not 100%, the lighting, water, female frog, Ceramic Heat emitter, & Misting system still. I managed to get a short video today. 

http://youtu.be/Au4oPWdL5iM

Hope you guys enjoyed, even with all that extra space Toto and Spot still stay close. King II was hiding but you can hear him make his distress call in the video for an unknown reason. Updates soon. 


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## k5MOW

> The Frogs and Toads love their new home. Not 100%, the lighting, water, female frog, Ceramic Heat emitter, & Misting system still. I managed to get a short video today. 
> 
> http://youtu.be/Au4oPWdL5iM
> 
> Hope you guys enjoyed, even with all that extra space Toto and Spot still stay close. King II was hiding but you can hear him make his distress call in the video for an unknown reason. Updates soon. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very nice video. 

Roger

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Larry Wardog

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## bill

Looking good!!


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Thanks guys. I have some good news and interesting news. The good news is King II the male Toad has come out of hiding and seems happy like the others. Spot the male Leopard Frog has surprised me because he has not ventured to the water while I've been watching. It may be possible he is late at night but he isn't by water for almost a whole day. Perhaps he is afraid because there is no cover? It's not moist enough in there for him to burrow down and be moist. Could it be that he prefers to be out and about more than by the water? Just something I found interesting. If anyone has some input on this feel free to comment. 


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## AAron

Some news on the progress, Toto & Spot are great and Spot is by the water more. King II is hiding again so not sure about him. He has only been out a total of 2 days since he has been released into the enclosure. He ate very well the last time but, it's been about a week. The plants are doing ok. The Myrtle, Ferns, & Moss are doing well. The water clover is not. When the light fixture gets here instead of using clamps I think will help trying to grow aquatics. The ribbon grass is doing better than the water clover but I will have to move it. More to come on that and more soon. 


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## AAron

These 2 are always by each other 


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## AAron

Got the T5 lights and Mister put together. Got a cool video of everyone. Toto is ok btw. 
http://youtu.be/f79DsOlWTrg


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## AAron

A little update 
I'm switching to Blue Fescue grass because it will be better equipped for the part of the habitat I have available. It can tolerate a dryer climate then the ribbon grass. I think it looks more wild and it will be a great fit. I have put water lettuce in the water, so the crickets can get out and for the Leopard Frogs comfort. He seems happier. Toto is doing well, she is very active and is happy. King II is hiding again. The Myrtle ha sprouted little babies all over the tank which is awesome. The Dragon's Tail Ferns are doing well. Still little but green and perked up. Not too much to report on. The place I got Spot (Frog) is sold out of Leopard Frogs so i will have to wait for a female. I'll check back with the Blue Fescue grass when I update here soon. If anybody has advice or questions feel free to post them.  


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## AAron

The Fescue Grass is in. The Ferns are getting bigger, the Myrtle is spreading in the tank, and water lettuce is in the water. I've hit the jackpot the last month. I got 17 Wax Moths from 100 total, 7 Mealworm Beetles, and I found baby crickets running around. The crickets are mating. That is so amazing. I haven't done anything to induce this mating and growing season. My tank has been in a major drought lol. I kept the Wax Worms and Mealworms in my room with AC on only sometimes. So it was pitch dark mostly and almost 80. Beats keeping in refrigerator. I'm not showing pics yet because I'm gonna get more Myrtle and either 1 more Fescue Grass or Fern. 


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## AAron

I got a picture of the updated Vivarium tonight. It's an evening pic. The crickets are still mating. The new Leopard Frog isn't in yet but, all of the plants are in. The Frog and Toads are doing very well. I'm finally out of Wax Moths haha, I'm going to try to culture Woodlice and Crickets in the tank. There are plenty of places to hide for the Crickets and Woodlice. Hopefully I can bring in these two species to breed in the tank, the money I would save and it would make it like a real woods. Here is the photo. I'll give an update with the new Female Frog next week hopefully. 




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Cliygh and Mia 2, Sunshine

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## Xavier

Umm, if I were you, I would make a quarantine tank for the new frog, just incase it has any parasites or illnesses, so they don't affect the other ones

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

I have a 30 Gallon and a 10 Gallon on the bottom shelf just waiting for some company haha. I will monitor this frog and get her looked at. Thanks for the concern. I was beginning to think nobody was even viewing this anymore. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Okay good. I thought that earlier that you were just going to put her in with the old ones

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Larry Wardog

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## Xavier

Also nice setup

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

No, I'll give he a look, her eyes, appetite, sticky tongue, eyes, lips, fecal sample, appearance, etc and if she is a Goddess like the others lol, I'll put her in after she passes all of it. Thanks for the compliment. They really love it. The new grass makes it look even more wild. Do you know if crickets will eat Woodlice? Because I had Mealworm beetles with crickets for weeks and they never went after them. Not sure if the shell on the Woodlice would deter them? 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

I imagine that the crickets would eat woodlice if they get their hands on one. I had a pack of crickets eat a freshly moulted adult male chinese mantis once, so a woodlouse would be no problem

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

I wonder why they aren't going after the Beetles? Well, the Woodlice will be deeper in the ground and will not be the easiest of prey, there are a lot of hiding spots for a little bug. I'm sure some will or could fall victim, but I guess it's a wait and see. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

I don't know if mealworm beetles do this, but most beetles have defences, like some can spray formic acid at the predator, but like I said, I doubt a darling beetle (If that is what that is what it is called) has that kind of defense

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

The thing is, the beetles are about as small as woodlice so, idk either. I have all the Mealworm Beetles I had for 2 weeks now. It's something to think about now at least. If they can both successfully mate in the same tank that would be a huge discovery. Also if I do a mini experiment with a large cricket and a pill bug before hand. 


Nobody do it before me, or don't tell me what you get until after I try it


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

https://youtu.be/GBtq9lBwyb4

The plants are all doing well, Myrtle has established and growing like crazy. Baby's also, also for the Water Lettuce. The Ferns are slowly growing. The Fescue Grass is doing great as a replacement for the Ribbon Grass which was a mistake. The Animals are all healthy and good. King II has become tame so he is out now even in the day at times. Chromwell is coming tomorrow! Can't wait to see her and see how long until she goes into her home. Now for the big news, I'm on 3rd generation crickets, crickets had crickets that had crickets. They are breeding very well. It's awesome, I have seen them breed as well. I introduced around 50+ Woodlice and they are breeding as well. I found a few tiny ones wondering around. Also what's rare is the Nightcrawlers are breeding. I found little baby worms tonight also. Idk what the heck is in that tank but love is in the air for the Bugs and Plants! I found some evasive Stone Centipedes and they have also reproduced in the tank. Much is going on in there. I really have created an ecosystem for everything in the tank. Next would be cool if the Frogs and Toads mated in the spring. Another video is coming tomorrow!


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## bill

Very cool. Glad it's growing well for you  :Smile: 


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Your photo the other night inspired me Bill, the running stream would be amazing, amazing for a setup like this! 


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## AAron

http://youtu.be/niVzCE6J1RA
This shows Toto in her hut, the Centipede, and some baby crickets. Another look at the tank. Cromwell came yesterday. She is the most calm Leopard Frog I've seen. She let me put the cricket next to her and she just looks at me. She is younger so It will be easier to teach her to trust people. Where I got her from listened to the exact specifications, it took 2 weeks longer but, it's exactly what I wanted. She doesn't have photos yet. I'll post those soon. Gonna try to tame her. She is a voracious eater. Appears to be healthy. I'll get her stool checked and see. If nothing and she remains this active/healthy I'm putting her in within the month. 


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## Cory

I really like how you put the garden lights into the viv, really makes it look like a piece of the backyard or garden.

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Thank you, the light closest to the water attracts insects. The Leopard Frog (Spot) will lay there and catch the insects that wonder by the light. I really payed attention to the surroundings of both animals to try to make this as natural as possible. I spent a good amount of time on the woods. I thought the lights would be cool because both species sit by the yard lights at my house. And there are some yards that are just out of the woods around here that have lights back near the woods so people don't walk back there. I'm happy someone liked the idea!


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monster

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## Cory

The lights attracting the insects I never actually thought of but what a good idea. As you said they know the light attracts them so  they stay by them and don't have to chase their food. They are smart little buggers and again as you stated it is something that a lot of insect eaters catch onto and use to their advantage in the wild. I have also seen toads out under a street light or sitting on the edge of the garden lurking close to light source waiting for dinner. Again that was a good idea, something to think about in the future if I ever get around to making a viv.

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Yes, I wanted to give them the most I could that was practical in the enclosure. The led night lights are awesome, it looks like a full moon overhead the tank. I have the video on here, if you scroll up in the thread and if you want to. T5 lights are cool people! Lol


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monster

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## AAron

New English Daisy and Cromwell 




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## AAron

Toto's Birthday!
Today a year ago and a day, I saved the 1st animal out of my 8. If it wasn't for her I wouldn't have gotten back into keeping animals. It is one of the best decisions I've made doing this because it's rewarding. Honestly the 3 species of Amphibs I have are my favorite. I really like American Toads. I always had them growing up. To finally be able to keep one and to give it a happier predator free, health care, well fed life. It's so much better than letting it go in August so it can get ready to hibernate. To watch something your attached to leap up out of the yard and never see it again, that hurt. The last toad I had kept before this I just didn't know certain things. It was laying dormant and I thought it was dead. It woke up so I took it to the pet store (local one) he said put it in a shoe box with dirt. We did but with no water. It got warmer out and the toad woke up in the box and died of dehydration. I stopped with all animals for about 5 years. Then I saw online terrariums and the designs people had. I started to think about it. Then I like most beginners wanted one of everything in a tank. I never did that and never had any bad mistakes with animal toxins and etc. But I waited about 2 years and thought I could care for things local to my area West PA, and then I found this little toad in a bucket at work. I thought now is the time to do this, I know all I can know now. So I kept her. She has become a fearless toad for the most part. I know my Whites are pretty savage and Leopards but, Toto has eaten things that she honestly shouldn't have. She Is the biggest animal I own also. From 2 inches to 3 and a half now, she is really awesome. I know people have their darts and tree frogs, etc, I could have done anything with the money I had for it. But I'm glad I had an idea with local things and I went all out for it. If I never found Toto, I wouldn't have either Enclosures. Or any animals. Happy Birthday Girl!




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Cliygh and Mia 2, deranged chipmunk

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## AAron

Cromwell has passed away
I'm still sad about it. She had a bump on her that needed looked at and the dr was on vacation. I couldn't get off work to take her prior. She was kept in the 30 Gallon alone. Now I'm going to take a step back and wait a while before I try to get another female. Both Enclosures are doing well still. Good thing she was isolated.   


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## Xavier

Man that stinks! I know how much you were looking forward to putting her in the tank. Sorry for your loss  :Frown:

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Larry Wardog

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## bill

Sorry to hear. My condolences.  :Frown: 


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> Man that stinks! I know how much you were looking forward to putting her in the tank. Sorry for your loss



Thank you for the kind words. Right after I celebrate one good thing, this happens. I have to try to focus on making the lives of the others better. I was working extra to get the stuff for the winter and for the waterfall. I got 27 bricks of Eco Earth now. I'm getting more river rock and topsoil today. I got more sprayers to really make it rain in there haha, I have some time to think about when I attempt to get another female. Weather it's a chance with a tadpole or another adult. I want a female but I'm going to take some time now. I feel bad for Spot the male Leo. He never got to meet her. But thanks for the kind words everyone.  


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## AAron

After a few months I have returned. The 75 Gallon Woods is slightly different with some plants taken out and some that didn't make it. I have added 20 Periwinkle and little bunny grass. I am going to restart the ferns because I put my tank through a drought to get water from the bottom and the ferns suffered. I will try the stream flow but at the end of the semester. Around December I'll start and finish it in a matter of days because of the plants, animals, and insects needing a permeant home. The Woodlice and Earthworms survived and have a genuine culture in the tank. The crickets were hunted and all eaten or died of old age. There are still Stone centipedes that invasively got and bread in my tank. There are 4 small baby fish from my moms pond that were on the roots of plants and are actually big now. The Frog and Toads are doing well. Video coming soon of them. Then I won't take any until the project is completed and the stream is implemented. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

The Viv is good. I am going to use Periwinkle, Pakasandra, and 
Dragon's Tail Ferns for the plants at least for the land feature. They all do great indoors. The 3 are great, Toto seems to be slowing down again. She might go dormant sometime. I am using the Ceramic Heat Emitter tonight for the first time, it's snowing outside right now lol. Here is a video in the meantime before I change the enclosure in 2 months. Enjoy

http://youtu.be/BAi8Bij3SnY



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## AAron

Looking ahead
The dream has become a reality. This 75 Gallon PA Woods Vivarium has been created. There have been no animal casualties in the making of this. One died before she could get in it. Thank God she was corinteened. There have been many plants that have perished. Moving forward however, I see the plants that will work and the ones I have now that have worked. I am looking forward to that. The hard parts of getting the ecosystem and the accessories, animals, etc is all done with for the most part. Now this year it is time to enhance and build off of success. I strongly believe the stream into a small pond is the best way to go. It will look incredible. I am going to get a good group of Dragon's Tail Ferns, More Perriwinkle, and Pakasandra. The woods part will look natural with Ferns growing next to other ferns, plenty of Pakasandra and Perriwinkle growing rampant. The land area will look like a real piece of the woods. The ferns will be implemented all in the winter. The other plants, along with a second try for a healthy female frog to have a sexed pair of both species. A female Leopard Frog next spring ( assuming and praying the Toads and Frog make it and are fine ) I am going to again look at the possibility of 3-5 minnows in the pond feature. I'm very interested in this idea. After owning a Betta Fish, my first actual fish nobody really cares for but me, I feel more confident about this idea. I will look at all sides of this still. There are already evasive pond fish that have come from the water plants and have grown in the bin that they have been in since June. If many can live in that, I believe I can actually try and find a way to keep fish alive. Anyways, The Woodlice are built in to stay with my setup. They have multiplied beyond expectations. Nothing is eating them surprisingly. The Night Crawlers and I discovered Red Wrigglers surviving and growing as well. The evasive Stone Centipedes, small Slugs, and what's left of the gnats are still in the enclosure. So the goals are: Take care of what I have now. So many great things established. to add a water feature, organize and more plants, Female Northern Leopard Frog and trying out Minnows, more Mister Nozzles. It will look like a woods, not that it doesn't look good now but I can give them better and I can make it look nicer as well. If there are any suggestions for plant tryouts I'm all ears. For keeping Minnows if someone has tried in a Vivarium, let me know your examples or opinions. If you have questions on the Animals, Plants, Insects, and the Enclosure its self, ask away. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## bill

Minnows are a very large and varied group of fish. Can you narrow it down a bit? Whatever you do, do NOT purchase minnows from a bait shop. They are not kept in the best of conditions, due to their nature of being a bait fish. 

Since you are trying to keep it native, there are some smaller darter species you can look into that may fare well in the tank. Depending upon usable water volume, of course. 


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Can you give me an idea of some smaller minnows and their name? I'm open to catching them, not sure which will be best. Might be around 2 1/2 gallons deep and a foot long. 


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## bill

Oooh, 2.5 gallons is not a lot of volume for chubs (commonly called minnows) or darters. You may actually have a difficult time finding some of the smaller fish, what with the temps dropping the way they are, especially on your side of the state. Try hitting up a pond, you may be able to find some mosquito fish. They are also native to our area. 


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## AAron

What do they look like?
So most minnows are out then?


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## bill

Mosquitos fish are tiny, and almost clear. Think juvenile female guppy, would be the best way to describe them. 

I would say most of the native minnows would be out. Sorry.  :Frown: 


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## AAron

Thank you for telling me! I tried to PM you but your inbox is full. I will consider them. This way if a leopard frog eats one, it's small and not as dangerous. 


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## bill

No problem. I gotta clean that stupid inbox out. It fils up so fast. Thanks for the heads up. I'll clean it out tonight. 


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Cool, I want to talk to you about some other ideas for plants for both enclosures and some other things. 


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## bill

You can always get ahold of me after 5pm on fb. Www.facebook.com/bill.worek


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Goldfish are aggressive. When I get mosquito fish they will be coming out because they are munching on whatever they can. Not worth the risk


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## bill

Yeah, Goldie's don't make the best tank mates where live plants are involved. Remember, they are carp, which are vegetarians. If you want to have nice aquatic plants, goldfish are a no no. 


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

These are evasive, I never put them in my setup, they hatched from eggs on the roots of the hyacinths. They are coming out when the tank gets changed


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## Krispy

This things going to be awsome! Did you order the plants? Or store bought?

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> This things going to be awsome! Did you order the plants? Or store bought?


I get excited when you guys post on the thread and your excited, I love that. I love questions because I don't get very many lol. I have the Myrtle and will get some ferns before the update. I have already figured out how things will look and how I will be able to do it. I honestly think if I can pull from my head and make it look exact in the tank, it will look like a nano woods lol. I'm excited for an attempt at a stream. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Can't wait to see the set-up!!!

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

http://youtu.be/6HW4ASNpRB0

Check it out! Everyone was out and it just teemed like the perfect time to record. 


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## AAron

The insects native to this tank have been very active now that the temps are in the 60-70's range. I saw tons of Wrigglers and Earthworms. The Woodlice are also active. I have seen a lot of positives from everything in the tank with cooler temps. 


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## AAron

http://youtu.be/7r_iuarC8Cs

This is continued from the last video


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## AAron

December 15th will be the first day in changing this enclosure. As December marks 6 months, it is also a welcomed challenge now that there is no going and buying new or going in the woods to find something. This will be the first winter the 75 Gallon will face. 17 days until the remodel. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

Just 2 days until the update. My hallway is going to be a mess for a week haha. I am looking forward to this, I am really hoping everything will go as expected. I found out I have more Myrtle to add. So I might not need to get more in the spring. Some plants will be missing and the mosquito fish will be as well, but the plants animals and insects will be in. Looking to breakdown the tank on YouTube possibly. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## jlfkona

Looking forward to seeing the rebuild [emoji1]


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

The update is finished. I am surprised as to what I found. There was some weird type of big in the wooden hide. They are gone now. From what I saw one slug is left, he will be eliminated. I put a wild wood cricket in my Vivarium a while back and it seems that it mated with a cb cricket to create offspring. There were 4, 2 survived. Tons of Woodlice, probably in around 200, I found 6-7 worms and 5 SuperWorm offspring. All the evasive fish are alive and the plants are all in the tank now. More misters are in and the waterfall works and the leopard frog loves it. I am excited for spring. More animals and plants. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

Today is Spots birthday! He has made it a whole year with me. I am so very happy that I chose Northern Leopard Frogs to be in this "experiment", although he is the only frog (until spring) I can say that observing him has been a privilege. I love his call that he makes, even though it has been a challenge keeping a semi aquatic frog with terrestrial toads, it is worth it. I cannot get a picture because he is hiding but, when he comes out I will. I couldn't think of a better birthday present than giving him a flowing stream. 


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## AAron

I have a video up! I will be adding more plants a frog and some fish do it is not done yet. The idea and stream are done though. 

http://youtu.be/rjp5wB_2wn4



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## Xavier

Just had time to watch the video, nice set-up!

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## AAron

It doesn't look like what it will when fully planted. It stinks the plants all died but the Myrtle just before the winter. I never should have done that drought. However, I will be buying those plants and taking care of them. I am excited for this spring, very big changes! The plants, the animals, and more. I am adjusting the waterfall also and when that is finished, it will look great


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## AAron

I have some great news. I will be getting a 150 Gallon late this summer and these guys will be going in it. The 75 Gallon PA Woods Vivarium is going to become the 150 Gallon PA Woods Vivarium. I have decided I will not be getting Mosquito fish to put in it and the stream will not be in the 150 Gallon I am going back to the original look. I will upgrade the Whites Tree Frogs enclosure to the 75 Gallon and they will get the stream flowing as well as a mister. Lots of big updates to come, I look forward to a bigger Woods Enclosure and a bigger Tropical enclosure. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## bill

Nice big tank! I love big builds. It's almost time for me to rebuild solitude  :Wink: 


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Cliygh and Mia 2, Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Some sad news and some updates. So I will be getting a 125 gallon tank for the animals, plants, and insects of the 75 Gallon Vivarium. Sadly Toto passed and it was a sad story. The bright side is the next female American Toad and Northern Leopard Frog will have things and tests these guys did not. As I am sad and not really interested now, I can say that yes I will be restocking and the 125 Gallon PA Woods Vivarium will happen. American Toads and Northern Leopard Frogs will be the Amphibs of choice. I'm going back to the original look with no waterfall. I feel it was interesting but, the leopard frog actually seemed to want more land. I will have a small piece of liner that will hopefully act as a puddle which will feel more natural and could mean mating. The show goes on. 



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## AAron

Now that I have some time and I'm not as sad I can share the updated here. 
I am considering 3-4 of the species. I have a guy talking to me now about a juvenile Captive from tadpole leopard frog. I still plan on getting another Leopard Frog as well. I am considering having 2 females to 1 male. I will be looking for a female this spring for King II (Toad) as well as searching for the toad I caught last year Riva. I enjoyed her and because I had her before I will not think twice about keeping her. So I may have 6. I will balance it out with each species so it will not be unbalanced in terms of who has more. The new leopard frog is going to be named "Dot" I believe it's a female. As for the plants,
I will use Perriwinkle the same in the tank, Pakasandra, Dragon's Tail Ferns, wild Daisies, an Iris (will be tall enough tank), a small grass I believe will work, and duckweed. The insects will remain Woodlice, Earthworms, and Crickets. I'm using medium Crickets for these guys because of Toto. They will each be corinteened and examined by a doctor. I plan on hibernating them in a 30 gallon next winter for a few months. I will get into that later. The tank will be 
5'x1.5'x2.5' with the 4' T5 and 60W ceramic heat emitter. I will use an UTH as well. It will have 2 fans and 6 misters from the Exo Terra Monsoon RS400. I'm going back to the woods look so no waterfall. I want it to look like a semi dense woods. Around 5 hides and 2 will be bigger than an XL hide. I will try to have 2-3 biomes. A dry one with rocks, a bin as the water which is 2.5 gallons, and the lush plants together. I am very excited to do this. I will eventually get a camera and use it for documentaries on the animals here and soon to be the WTF 75 Gallon. I hope to get the Amphibs to mate so I can help repopulate more Leopard Frogs for an area and Toads in my woods. The frogs are not local to my town so I would most likely need a contact to send them where they would be needed. Lots to think about with this. 4-5 months from the build. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

New Leopard Frog! I believe it's a female, but I will find out soon. Her name is Dot and she was at a Petco in Nashville. Her previous owner raised her so I know where this frog has been. A young frog; It's so far the most tame leopard frog I have seen or handled. I'm going to try to tame her and hopeful hand feed as well. I'm hoping this is a female for Spots sake haha. Dot is in for a treat, Crickets, Waxworms, Mealworms, Waxmoths await her. Photos and video coming soon. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Awesome, look forward to seeing  her!  :Smile:

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## AAron

An update on what is going on. 
For at least this year, the 
PA Woods Vivarium will stay in the 75 Gallon. I have been getting the animals looked at individually which has taken some time. I have not been looking for a female to replace Toto yet, but once the tank is up again, I will. It will be between 4-6 inhabitants this year. 3 of each species. Dot the young Leopard Frog and a female American Toad will be making their appearance on this thread when the tank is up. I know many want to see him. 

The plants this year are going to be Perriwinkle, Pakasandra, Dragon's Tail Ferns, Autum Fern, a grass idk name of yet, duckweed, and wild moss. I am restarting completely due to the animals having parasites before and I don't want a relapse. 

I will be getting more Woodlice and Earthworms from the place I work and introducing them to this new habitat. 3 of the 5 evasive fish survived so they will be returning to the new enclosure. I'm hopeful with a new strategy I can eliminate slugs, centipedes, and millipedes this year. 

I'll release more info soon. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Great news! Still can't wait to see the final setup!  :Smile:

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

I have started making the build. The plants will be:
1 Autumn Fern
1 Japanese Dwarf Fern
Perriwinkle 
Pakasandra 
1 Lirope (a small variegated grass)
Wild Moss

I have decided not to include the Pond Fish, they will go in another setup. For the big news. I am thinking of possibly not including Dot in the enclosure as well as another possible Toad. I am considering having another enclosure (my 30 gallon) as an extended part. This means that i would have paired species in the 75 Gallon and Dot along with another Toad in the 30 Gallon with the same setup with some of the plants. My reasoning is Spot. He is an adult male Leopard Frog and Dot is afraid of him. I would be concerned of bullying so instead of that, I could have another tank on a smaller scale. If I am to lose a plant or animal through the winter assuming all the Amphibs are treated by then, I can replace it in the 75 Gallon. King II and Spot will be the first to enter the 2.0 PA Woods Vivarium. I will be adding Earthworms and Woodlice to the soil. I will include updates of the 30 Gallon as well on this thread. I am going to make a video of the making of this enclosure. Full speed ahead!


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

I got a new phone so now the videos will be better! Updates to come. Working on the build. Have half plants and half the hides in. Need the rest, Woodlice, Earthworms and to finish the video. I would love to post pictures again also. 


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## AAron

Video coming in the next post! Spot and King II love the tank, they seem to stay together now where they didn't last year. It's cool because Spot will go in the water and King will watch him from a large rock near the water. I have found a female Toad and have yet to name her. She will be joining the guys after a vet visit. I will be getting a Female Leopard Frog for this tank. I really want the pairs of these animals, it would be really cool to have sexed pairs, it's just so hard to get each sex and healthy for that matter. Dot the other male Leopard Frog will be on the waiting list to get in. He has a vet visit and then I have to decide. He doesn't seem to get along with the male I have in there now. Both males are territorial so I may have to put Dot in the 30 Gallon for a few years possibly. I will give updates with that as well in a few updates. I'm considering adding a male Eastern Spade Foot Toad captive bread. They are not very active and the environment would be ideal for them. I'm considering so it's not a done deal, but I'm liking them. I have studied them for a few years so I'm very comfortable with them. I was. Considering them from the beginning actually! I will be adding more Woodlice and Earthworms soon. Updates coming very soon. If you have a name for the female Toad or a comment on the possibility of adding a Spade foot please share! This tank will be home to 2-5 Amphibs max!


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Sounds nice! Can't wait to see it!

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

I have a great video of the updated Vivarium. https://youtu.be/KP2AaM8uKVc
I will give more updates for what's coming next soon. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Looks amazing! I wish Bill still visited the forums to see how this turned out!  :Smile:

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> Looks amazing! I wish Bill still visited the forums to see how this turned out!


What happened to him?


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## Xavier

Oh nothing happened to him. (At least to my knowledge) He just hasn't been on in a very very long while

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## AAron

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## KMAC

Looks excellent dood

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> Looks excellent dood


Thank you, I wasn't sure how many people really followed this thread, that encourages me a lot 


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## Xavier

It looks amazing! You've done a perfect job of replicating a patch of woods!  :Smile:

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Some excellent pics of the Vivarium! I'm making a "how it's made" video on this and will be looking to make a video including the mister and lighting. It will be on the artificial weather in the tank. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## bill

That's a fine looking tank ya got there buddy! You did an excellent job! It is definitely something to be proud of!


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> That's a fine looking tank ya got there buddy! You did an excellent job! It is definitely something to be proud of!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That means a lot Bill, your the best! Where have you been man? 


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## bill

Busy busy busy. Not really involved in the hobby at the present time. And I'll have even less time due to starting a new job in a couple weeks. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

> Busy busy busy. Not really involved in the hobby at the present time. And I'll have even less time due to starting a new job in a couple weeks. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Glad to hear you are doing well, but sad you won't be around as much. I'll have to ask you all the questions I have now lol. 


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## Xavier

> That's a fine looking tank ya got there buddy! You did an excellent job! It is definitely something to be proud of!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Hey, great to hear from you again man! It's a shame you had to get rid of some of your herps too, I hope the ones you still have are doing fine!  :Big Grin:

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## AAron

So a dragonfly hatched and was flying around my tank last night. It will be included in the next video of the 75 Gallon PA Woods Vivarium. I have more news to come soon. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2, jasonm96

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## AAron

Got new sprayers for the mister on the way and loaded up with vitamins and calcium for the winter. Got the UTH as well tonight. Most of the needs are being met very early. This tank is getting everything it needs to run through a whole year. This has put the 55 Gallon build on a slight hold to make sure this tank is sustainable. I may not find a female toad, which is sad but fine, I'll just have the enclosure ready for when I do. New video coming next week on the enclosure. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## KMAC

Larry,

Is your misting system a pump, tubbing and sprinklers? 

If so gonny take a pic of the sprayer/sprinkler heads as im building a rain machine myself and that would help me out.

Cheers,

KMAC.

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Cliygh and Mia 2, Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> Larry,
> 
> Is your misting system a pump, tubbing and sprinklers? 
> 
> If so gonny take a pic of the sprayer/sprinkler heads as im building a rain machine myself and that would help me out.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> KMAC.


I have been following your thread and it's cool to see that you have found my thread! For this enclosure I have an Exo Terra Monsoon RS400. I have 6 sprayers hooked up and it saturates the ground to look like what the woods soil would look like naturally. I didn't want to get flashy with this because I have a Leopard Frog and American Toad. The Toad doesn't need or desire elaborate rain, he's just thankful and amazed he has it. My other build uses a pump and I may look at what you are doing with rain because I could have a rain chamber for my White's Tree Frogs if I do that along with it being a Paludarium build. If I were doing this I would get a decent pump from lowes and get one of the heads you have, then get a timer (a good one) and set it to go off however long you decide for. What kind of frogs and how big will your enclosure be?


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

The guys both after dinner
 The King
 Can you spot Spot? Pakasandra 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

Talking with different sources and looking for something that will last, the Enclosure will be getting its final touches to face the fall and winter seasons. I am going to take out the grass and other plant to add Dragon's Tail Ferns and a Korean Rock Fern. The Periwinkle, Pachysandra, and Autumn Fern should make it through the seasons. With the way I have the sprayers now and I'm going to be using miracle grow which should keep those plants up. The Japanese Fern will be a surprise, it may or may not work. So I will have 4 types of Ferns and 2 Ground Covers for this build. I have the UTH and a 60W Ceramic Heat Emitter so the heating shouldn't be a problem either. I will be getting glass for the top so I can retain humidity in the winter so everything survives. I got all the supplies to keep the tank clean, and vitamins and etc.  I just need to get the plants traded out and the soil and cover and I am good for the next few seasons. I'll make the videos after I get the tank switched around!


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## AAron

Spot has hops Video coming soon


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

King II is enjoying the ecosystem made especially for American Toads and Northern Leopard Frogs. 
I will be updating the Viv this week coming. Pics to post soon and videos as well. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Beautiful! They seem to really like it!  :Smile:

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Larry Wardog

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## KMAC

Very nice dood,  I like it

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> Beautiful! They seem to really like it!





> Very nice dood,  I like it


Thank you both! They are both healthy and the temp and humidity is consistent this time around. They won't let the crickets mate this year in the tank that's how healthy and alert they are. The Woodlice have hundreds of offspring so they will be around. I'm going to add more of them and more Earthworms. All I'm updating are 2 plants to be swapped so I have more plants that will make it through the seasons. Remember, I'm not doing this for the summer and I'm not using tropical plants because they are not natural for these guys. Everything about this tank is a scientific project that if I can get right, I can share with all of you, and it's also for the love I have for these Amphibs and native Insects that I wanted to do this. If the tank can go 1.5 years or more with the animals healthy, plants alive and growing, and insects still breeding, then it's successful. Lots of time. This winter will be the measuring stick, but I have already prepared more than last year. It should be crazy, fun, and nerve racking. 


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## KMAC

Every animal we all keep should be housed in an environment as close as we can get to its natural environment wether it be WC or CB. So I think your going about it the right way dood. Its good to see peoples diaries as it helps others out.

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

I 


More nice pictures of the guys


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Cliygh and Mia 2, jasonm96

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## Jason

Photography skills with shot of the toad, haha!

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Thanks! It's difficult to get the leopard frog because he usually is in the back of the tank. I just feel I didn't take enough pics last year so I'm going to this time around with everything doing better. 

Can you find Spot and King II?


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Jason

Far right! His face looks so funny ahahah, he's creeping on you

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Cliygh and Mia 2, Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Yeah the Toad was caught off guard lol, Spot is far back on the left by the grass


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Cliygh and Mia 2, jasonm96

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## Xavier

Stunning! By the way, what kind of camera/phone do you use to take photos?

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jasonm96

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## Cory

The viv looks really good, very natural. And I was thinking the same thing as Jasonm96 that those are nice shots of the toad. The name fits him because you can tell by the way hes always postured up  with such confidence he thinks hes the king. L.O.L  Did you have 2 leopared frogs or did you get another? I just ask because I have followed your threads from the start and remember the leopard frog vs the pleco incident.

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Cliygh and Mia 2, Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> The viv looks really good, very natural. And I was thinking the same thing as Jasonm96 that those are nice shots of the toad. The name fits him because you can tell by the way hes always postured up  with such confidence he thinks hes the king. L.O.L  Did you have 2 leopared frogs or did you get another? I just ask because I have followed your threads from the start and remember the leopard frog vs the pleco incident.


That's awesome! Thank you guys for following this, it's been an interesting journey to say the least. The other Female Leopard Frog I got had a disease and died weeks after I got it in a separate tank. It really sucked because it was beautiful and it didn't even make it to see its home. The next frog "Dot" happened to be a male. He and Spot are both territorial so I felt Spot would stress him. Then I saw he was what I thought injured so I took him to the doctors and he was found to have brain damage from being mishandled by the postal service. A perfect health, beautiful, peaceful frog has to lean on its side because of the carelessness of the post service. The vet and I both agreed that Dot would not survive in this Viv. He was robbed of a chance to even see this tank. So I made another post called the other guys and I decided to make him a nice Viv just for him, I'm letting the toad with him go. The vet said he can exceed a healthy life and outlive the age for Leopards, but he won't recover from the brain trauma. It's sad but I love him the way I love these guys. I'm gonna get him an 18x18x18 because he likes tall plants and he wouldn't do well with a long Viv. My mom really likes him so I put him downstairs so she actually does his maintenance but I feed, change the tank and examine him. He can still eat like a regular frog and croak time from time, but he won't live like a normal leopard would. I am currently looking for Female American Toad and Northern Leopard Frog. After I have them I will decide on a Wood Frog or a Spadefoot Toad because when I researched those two species could live in an enclosure like this. I am leaning toward the Spadefoot because of its heat tolerance, no one makes videos of it, and it hides a lot so it wouldn't over crowd this tank. Only if I see potential to bring them in I will, but I'm getting desperate looking for females. This tank btw was dedicated to my first real Toad "Little Toad" and the lovely Toto. Toto was the first Amphibs I got 2 years ago almost and I lost her in the winter. She was such a personality. Spot is a dominant Frog and she was a dominant Toad. King II is actually peaceful and the most chill toad. He doesn't jump away from you and he is not sick. He's always been like that. So I am hoping for a dominant Female Toad to balance it out. It honestly was Toto's tank and she knew that. Now the torch is handed to Spot who is actually the King of this tank. I use an IPhone 5S nothing flashy I just have some experience with videos because I speak at churches and around the area which are video taped and I make videos of so I use similar formula. Sorry for the rant. It's just taken a lot to get to this point with this tank. It's so worth it to see how happy both species are and I won't declare victory until the plants and animals make it through a whole year together. (And the Woodlice and Earthworms. )


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Cliygh and Mia 2, monster

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## Cory

We all need to rant and let off some steam every once in awhile, and if we aren't cursing or offending anyone then I say let it out. And I was following a couple builds besides yours when you first started this one and it was someone else that had frog vs pleco incident so I'm sorry for that. The other person put a pleco in his water area to help keep it clean and his frog tried to eat it, obviously it didn't end well. Got a little confused between his build Bills builds and yours. and out of all honesty I have always liked this one and followed because it was different from the common rainforest setup, its like a piece of forest from your back yard. I cant tell from the new pictures but did you end up takeing out the garden lights? I thought it was such a neat idea you put those in there. And again it looks really good man.

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Cliygh and Mia 2, Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> We all need to rant and let off some steam every once in awhile, and if we aren't cursing or offending anyone then I say let it out. And I was following a couple builds besides yours when you first started this one and it was someone else that had frog vs pleco incident so I'm sorry for that. The other person put a pleco in his water area to help keep it clean and his frog tried to eat it, obviously it didn't end well. Got a little confused between his build Bills builds and yours. and out of all honesty I have always liked this one and followed because it was different from the common rainforest setup, its like a piece of forest from your back yard. I cant tell from the new pictures but did you end up takeing out the garden lights? I thought it was such a neat idea you put those in there. And again it looks really good man.


I can easily bring them back lol, it was a great idea and it would attract the Wax Moths along with other nocturnal insects. Yeah, I never had big fish in here. Spot has eaten goldfish before. As I am moving the last pieces in and out of the enclosure I will get a light or 2. That's the best part of this build, it's something I haven't seen someone go all in on, usually they try for the warm months, but I'm attempting perennials all year with native insects, plants, and Amphibs so it's a scientific discovery along with great results in the end. So the final plants I have settled on and I do mean final species going into this fall and winter are:
Periwinkle 
Pachysandra 
Autumn Brilliance Fern
Japanese Fern (Small)
Dragon's Tail Ferns
One Iris in the water
And one that possibly will show up:
Glow in the dark Mushrooms 
I know they are not local but it could push this tank over the top. Only concern is I have a big species of herps, so they may smash them. This is my line up of contenders for an all year run with perennials. The lights will come back thanks to Monster!


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Cliygh and Mia 2, monster

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## AAron

Dropping a new video tomorrow and it's going to be good. You will see some things never seen on camera in a Vivarium with this video with either species, while they are together. 



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Cliygh and Mia 2, monster

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## AAron

Checkout the new video added onto the new Playlist 75 Gallon PA Woods Vivarium 2016!

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...rF7_8wlUP1nmtx


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

Got the Dragon's Tail Ferns today, came early and very bushy, thanks to Black Jungle Terrarium Supply for the good service! Spots mad because a lot of foliage is out of the tank until these grow. I need more Periwinkle and Pachysandra for the empty patches. I'll post a pic after I get more ground cover. 


Spot looking over his kingdom last night. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2, monster

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## KMAC

Either your using a good DSLR or the force is with you?

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Cliygh and Mia 2, Larry Wardog

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## AAron

The 75 Gallon PA Woods Vivarium is officially completely planted today. 

Updates coming this week


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Cliygh and Mia 2, monster

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## Xavier

> The 75 Gallon PA Woods Vivarium is officially completely planted today. 
> 
> Updates coming this week
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's great to hear! Can't wait to see when it's truly finished!  :Smile:

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> That's great to hear! Can't wait to see when it's truly finished!


I really want the Dragon's Tail Ferns to get full size, that's one thing I'm very nervous about. They seem to be doing okay. I made this tank even greater than I thought, with the way my water level is for drainage, I'm going to put a small pump in my drainage layer to get all of the excess water out. This is turning out to get more and more self sustaining 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

Got the pump for this setup




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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

Got the miracle grow sprayed and got the light put in. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

I just found a female toad! I'll have a picture of her soon, she is young and shy, but very healthy. She made me work to catch her. I also added a few small wild crickets. I believe 2 types of wild cricket to be exact. This toad will not be in the next video, but the one following as will Dot. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2, monster

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## Xavier

That's amazing to hear man! I hope you eventually find a female for your Leopard frog too!

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

The 19th was the day 2 years ago that I caught Toto. She was the first animal and the animal I catered this build around. She passed away this past January, which made me work harder to build a better enclosure that would be dedicated to her. She was the top predator of this enclosure, Spot the Leopard Frog at the time was at the top as well, but she just had a fierceness when she would hunt that I haven't seen in the American Toad. It was awesome to watch at feeding time. Here is a video of her at her peak with Spot in the same enclosure to show you how 2 dominant predators eat at the same time. 



https://youtu.be/HvuGFTAQ1CY




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## Cory

Hey, congrats on the new find and the tank looks good. I personally love the little garden light, glad you brought it back.

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> Hey, congrats on the new find and the tank looks good. I personally love the little garden light, glad you brought it back.


I'm uploading a video to YouTube as we speak


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## KMAC

And where is that video dood?

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## AAron

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...rF7_8wlUP1nmtx


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## AAron

This video I get to show off the plants and the native insects in this enclosure. There is a part where you can see crickets and Woodlice in a part. many of my Woodlice are young so you can't see them on camera yet, but they are getting bigger. Spot shows you over and over that no cricket is out of his reach and King II has imo the most violent part in the video. He pulls an Earthworm from being wrapped around the Periwinkle. Checkout the link above! Another video coming with the new Toad (assuming she can behave) soon!


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Photos of the Woods and introducing Vinca the Female American Toad (3rd picture)

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Yoda

I only have a 10 gallon tank.

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

> I only have a 10 gallon tank.


I think that's good? I haven't asked a question to anybody in the last few posts sir/miss


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

https://vimeo.com/179980120
Vinca is officially staying. She has calmed down and so has Spot. Excited that I have 3 now!


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

She is the smallest animal in this habitat, but she is not intimidated by Spot. She lives in the moss hut, which, Spot always goes in. He was watching her for days literally looking right at her, but she didn't move so he came in and sat right next to her. There are 3 hides in the tank btw, and Vinca didn't move. So now I got my wish, she is a dominant toad. Because they are a different species (frog and toad) I don't think that having one dominant of each is bad. It makes for a very interesting time when feeding. Hopefully the female leopard frog will be calm and relaxed like the last female and like King II


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

I see this when I turn the light on



King put his hand on Spot. 

Friends


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## foreverfrogging

Hi, just wondering why you are housing separate species together? Even if they are wild caught? That's actually quite stressful for frogs and can cause illness. I'm all for catching frogs, but maybe consider separating them. 


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## foreverfrogging

Is it legal for you to catch leopard frogs? They are endangered. 


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## AAron

These Amphibs take the same temp, humidity, lighting, grow the same sizes, are from the same climate, and were researched for years before doing this. Others who are very well educated in both species do not have an issue with this and if you check the whole thread, many members who are more knowledgeable overall love this tank and support it. This is an all natural setup and is big enough with specific design for both species. The Leopard Frog was bought fyi, they are not legal to catch so I did the correct measure and bought him. This is not an uneducated experiment, this was well thought out and executed. This has never been a hostile thread, but if you do not support this tank, please keep scrolling because this is a tank that many people get excited to see and I love it that others have embraced this build. Biologist and expert herpers were contacted before starting this. I hope this answered your question with all respect and unhostile.   


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## foreverfrogging

I'm sorry if I came across as hostile. Your tank is beautiful and very spacious. Glad to hear the leopard was bought! I tried to find more info on the thread before posting but couldn't find my answers so thanks for informing me. Although I am new to the forum I've been involved with frogs for quite some time now so I am knowledgeable. The reason I was concerned with different species is that I have seen frogs go downhill so fast from stress of another species and I wouldn't want that to happen. But I have seen success with two species as well so I look forward to seeing how your two make out. Again sorry for coming across the wrong way and thanks for doing so much research, we need more of that in the world of herps! [emoji6]


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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> I'm sorry if I came across as hostile. Your tank is beautiful and very spacious. Glad to hear the leopard was bought! I tried to find more info on the thread before posting but couldn't find my answers so thanks for informing me. Although I am new to the forum I've been involved with frogs for quite some time now so I am knowledgeable. The reason I was concerned with different species is that I have seen frogs go downhill so fast from stress of another species and I wouldn't want that to happen. But I have seen success with two species as well so I look forward to seeing how your two make out. Again sorry for coming across the wrong way and thanks for doing so much research, we need more of that in the world of herps! [emoji6]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thank you for the kind words, I just wanted to be as specific as I could answering because I know the risks doing this. If I didn't add a new toad there would be no problems with stress because of how calm the older toad is, he was actually calming the leopard frog down. The two in the picture above have been together for over a year. Once the new toad settles in completely and the leopard frog gets used to it, the tank will be back to normal. Thanks for checking this out! I will be keeping this up to date as possible so you can check back at any time. [emoji3]


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Cliygh and Mia 2, foreverfrogging

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## AAron

Big news:
Tonight I got to watch for the first time Vinca the new female eat and hunt crickets. She is a dominant predator. Vinca and Spot seem to be testing each other. It's very clear they will run the tank. You will see in the next video that those two are right next to each other for everything. More on that later, the other headline is I disbanded "The Other Guys" in the other enclosure. I was going to get rid of the young male American Toad, but I figured instead of a different species, I just added this toad. He has been in my possession for 2 months and is as tame as King II. So it will be 3 American Toads and 
2 Northern Leopard Frogs in this enclosure. I'm hoping it's not overcrowded with 5. I know hunting will not really be a thing in this tank anymore because there will be so many hungry Amphibs, it will be like watching a war with an army of Frogs and Toads vs a swarm of feeder insects. The male toad was named tonight also. So I have 2 new additions to the tank in 2 weeks. Vinca the female and LT the new to the tank male toad. They are around the same age and I saved them from death so it's a win-win situation. I will try to get LT in this next video coming soon. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## KMAC

Frogs can be mixed, however for the general keeper its not recommended as you say.

But if you do a bit of study in ecology side (environment), biological (toxidity, cross contamination etc) and they are from the same area you can pull it off and infact create a more natural environment. Larry is not your average pet keeper (we dont even know if he is infact human yet ha ha) and seems to study the WC more than keeping as pets.

But as I say you cant just go mixing even if they dwell the same trees etc without doing your homework,  which Larry does.

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Cliygh and Mia 2, Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> Frogs can be mixed, however for the general keeper its not recommended as you say.
> 
> But if you do a bit of study in ecology side (environment), biological (toxidity, cross contamination etc) and they are from the same area you can pull it off and infact create a more natural environment. Larry is not your average pet keeper (we dont even know if he is infact human yet ha ha) and seems to study the WC more than keeping as pets.
> 
> But as I say you cant just go mixing even if they dwell the same trees etc without doing your homework,  which Larry does.


This just made my day haha


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

My army of Toads

Spot, King II, and Vinca 

LT

Vinca

King II

LT


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## KMAC

Is the light in pic 1 for moon effect?

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## AAron

> Is the light in pic 1 for moon effect?


The blue light is a built in LED light in my lighting system that represents moon light. Yes you are correct and the animals believe it is the moon. It's very cool and it lights the tank up enough to see almost everything. They are all okay with being watched. 


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## KMAC

I was kinda looking at the pic on a Sunday daze and thinking thats what it must be for

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> I was kinda looking at the pic on a Sunday daze and thinking thats what it must be for


I will be making a video of that sometime as well. 


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## AAron

It looks like King II likes Vinca. Maybe more than what I thought he would. 

This was taken over the course of days. 
LT is not a part of the group. He does his own thing. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

More tonight as well!


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Beautiful, it's coming along nicely! Do you think they will attempt to breed after hibernation? It'd be cool to see if they try to

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> Beautiful, it's coming along nicely! Do you think they will attempt to breed after hibernation? It'd be cool to see if they try to


I'm not sure yet if I want to hibernate them. I'm considering it though. If I would, I'm 99% Vinca and King II would mate. As soon as King saw Vinca, he stayed around her. LT might try to compete with King, but I think because of how much those two hangout together it's safe to say them. I know Spot would mate with the female Leopard as well. I'm not sure yet if I want to hibernate all of them or not yet. It's a discussion we can have on this thread though!


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## AAron

While I'm still working on a new video, checkout the most recent one "2B" please subscribe, if you have a YouTube this shows me you are interested. 

https://youtu.be/rK7mkh4cLDU


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

It's almost been a month, but I finally got this video posted. Meet Vinca the female toad

https://youtu.be/sw1oFFemnBM


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Amazing man, simply amazing  :Smile:

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## AAron

The enclosure is doing great. I have it setup for the winter. I have the UTH in place and the plexiglass top instead of screen. It makes a 40% difference in humidity with the power of the lights. The pachysandra is starting to bloom, myrtle is good, autumn brilliance fern is fantastic. I would highly recommend it for local frogs or toads. It is very durable to toads and is thriving lime green and slow growth. I was not expecting this. The Dragon's Tail Ferns did not make it. I just faced it they could not survive that climate. The Japanese Fern will be attempted again next year since it wasn't given a fair chance in the tank. We will see how the winter goes, but for western pa plants, 3 are good for a natural build. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Sounds like a plan!  :Smile:

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

The 75 Gallon is looking at its best now actually which is odd for a mild October, but still late October beauty has not happened with this tank before. LT is back in the other enclosure with the other leopard frog. He could not compete for food and they would have starved him. We are left with Spot, King II, and Vinca. Does anyone want to see a video of the enclosure? Let me know what you want to see! And subscribe so I know there is an interest please!


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## AAron

2nd late fall update:
Spot, King II, and Vinca are doing well. Spot has shown aggressive behavior towards Vinca and LT, but not King. King has shed and become closer in size to Spot. His dominant behavior and the passive behavior of LT was the reason for moving LT. Vinca doesn't care about Spots dominant behavior because she has claimed her territory and will not back down to Spot. She owns the moss hut. If he would have intimated her and it affected her eating and behavior I would have done something. But she is fat and does her normal routine. When she gets bigger than Spot, he will not try to intimidate her anymore. It is with his behavior that I have to announce that I will not in the many months to come be interested in getting him a female for this enclosure. For the tank to stay balanced in all aspects only 3 can live in this enclosure. These guys have hunted all the grown Woodlice and I have plenty offspring, but I need them...I also missed the unique hunting  styles of the group. Spot and Vinca are hunters chasing and stalking prey. King II waits and ambushes what they chase to him. I couldn't enjoy each unique hunting style they have with an army of frogs and toads in here. From a space standpoint and aggressive behavior from the Leopard Frog, I can say a 75 Gallon is adequate space for a sexed pair of toads and a male leopard frog without a space or stress problem. One surprise I had in my woods vivarium is an Iris Living in the water. I thought it died...it actually shot up new sprouts and has adjusted not only to water, but indoors. It's a smaller iris and will be kept up with, but if it starts thriving, it will be plant #4 that can be kept in a Vivarium. I might over thanksgiving make a video of the pack hunting. Pachysandra and Periwinkle are sprouting and doing leaps and bounds better than a year ago. The UTH and Plexiglass lid have preserved the thriving summer success. If anyone reads this before trying a mixed species Vivarium, when they say problems happen down the road, they are right. If the animals aren't researched and personally observed frequently, that is what leads to the downfall of these builds. I think the laziness of "it's been working, I don't have to worry or learn anymore" mindset sets in. This is why owning each animal previous and a large tank, as well as a backup plan and strategy for problems can save this tank. With that being said, I'm very lucky to have the specific sexes and the enclosure that is built especially for these species to live together. It's also up to the animals. If they can't get along or remain normal in behavior, then change needs to happen. I'm at the max imo for animals, but it all worked out in a perfect scenario with this gang. More updates coming soon!


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## AAron

Good news:

The Woodlice population has started to recover. I have found more Woodlice tonight which is a big deal. I guess LT was hunting the majority of them. Next is the surprise of the fall, a dying Iris has made a full comeback from 2 inches out of the water 2 days ago to 6 now. It has made a full recovery and if someone is patient with this plant, an Iris is #4 perennial that can grow indoors. Not sure how big this will get now acclimated to the enclosure. I wanted an iris in this build from the beginning, but never thought about it again until late last summer. Some pachysandra is getting ready to bloom. This is another big deal because this time last year I lost all of it, and now I have some blooming and spreading like mad through the tank. All good news out of the 
75 Gallon PA Woods Vivarium 


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## AAron

Everyone is happy:
 
King II cuddles up with Vinca 

Spot down by the water 

The Iris in the background. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

Another big update:

With just removing LT, the 75 Gallon Woods has been recovering in different aspects. I found 10 baby crickets growing in the tank. This is huge. This is the latest crickets have ever grown in this Vivarium. The Iris is growing, and the Pachysandra and Periwinkle are spreading throughout the tank. The Autumn Fern has begun developing two branches that are the nice brown this fern displays in summer. It is still growing as well. The next video will be in documentary style for the animals. More updates to come! 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Loving this thread! Keep us updated!  :Smile:

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## AAron

In the world of creating the 1st documentary for this enclosure. Should be out around Thanksgiving!


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Yes, I can't wait to see the video!  :Big Grin:

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

Here is the Documentary of the 75 Gallon PA Woods Vivarium! Please check this out. It has everything this thread is about in this video. 

https://youtu.be/fwFoQPKryo0


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

Toad love


Happy Thanksgiving

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

Now growing Mushrooms 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Amazing!  :Smile:

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## AAron

Night hits the 75 Gallon

 

Can you find King II and Spot?


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## AAron

With the recent loss of my male White's Tree Frog in the other major build, it made me realize the animals who paved the way for the new ones as well as the ideas. 
Here are the animals that became the motivation to complete this build and keep it at a high level all year. 

Cromwell never made it to the 75 Gallon because she was quarantined where she would eventually pass. She set up for Dot in the other tank to come to me and better care for Spot. 
Toto Truly the legend of this enclosure, I made sure everything in this build had more time spent and better execution as well as a strict size limit on prey for every Toad and Leopard Frog. If it was not for these two, this enclosure would not look or be as precisely built for the inhabitants now. 


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## 9darlingcalvi

Love it, im doing a 10 gallon with chorus frogs and maybe spring peepers

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## AAron

> Love it, im doing a 10 gallon with chorus frogs and maybe spring peepers


I've done some research on Spring Peepers and from what I gathered I thought they needed a lot of space and a taller tank. I'm not as sure about chorus frogs. If you put the 2 together you have to look at the risks of an enclosure like that. 2-3 peepers might be good in like a 29-40 Gallon because they need a lot of space like most tree frogs. The habitat temperature humidity and size must be equal or one species will become ill and wipe out your enclosure. A build like this will also cost a lot of money. I put around $4,000 in so far and it's been 2 years. If you are still stuck on these species try owning one of each for over a year and study them. Ask questions on here and research like crazy and you will have your answer. A mixed build requires much research and planning for success. I spent 2 years researching before I came to the conclusion on the animals some plants and the size of the tank. You should ask on the tree frogs thread there opinion of this because I am not as educated on local tree frogs. Thank you for your support, I want to help you and give you the advice that I had to find and learn from this experience. There is no cutting corners when lives are on the line. Thanks again I hope this helps!

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jasonm96

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## 9darlingcalvi

Okay, I might just do Chorus frogs in my 26 gallon bowfront, my other i habitat as are being moved to another tank.

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## AAron

> Amazing man, simply amazing


Clear your messages! I need to talk to you!


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## AAron

I have some very bad news. 
I was on vacation and somehow Spot escaped. I was in Wisconsin far from PA so I couldn't do a thing. My mom found him dead. He was healthy and fat as can be. Now the Leopard Frog is extinct from this enclosure at the moment. I'm going to further the the scientific research and grow a tadpole inside this enclosure. It's a sad time because he died a day before his birthday. I will be making the lid reinforced and will be taking even better care of the new Young frog. The videos are going to have to be paused until I get the tadpole. 


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## sezzakin

I'm very sorry to hear about Spot.

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

It has been difficult because the plants and enclosures are doing great, but I lost two key frogs about 2 weeks apart


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sezzakin

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## AAron

With the major loss of Spot I am just trying to reload everything. The enclosure is doing wonderful and 
King II is active this winter. He may not go dormant like before. Vinca is slowing down and I believe will be going dormant for a few months. She is doing great as well. I am going to get a Leopard Frog Tadpole and raise it into a frog and then release it into the build. This will be even greater of a scientific experiment to see how the young Frog will do growing up captive with Toads. Should things in this build continue how they have been I will be adding a few more plants and the frog and can sit back for a while and enjoy this. 


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## 9darlingcalvi

I'm starting my build this coming spring/summer. It will be only Chorus frogs

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Larry Wardog

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## Xavier

Hey man, sorry I haven't been on a lot recently, been really busy. Sorry about your losses man, it always sucks to lose any animal you love  :Frown: . At least your enclosure is coming out beautifully! I'll be making an update post explaining my absence shortly  :Smile:

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## AAron

We are going to have a very unique situation this spring when a new Leopard Frog and female Toad are introduced to the enclosure. Vinca has passed away due to finding out she had parasites that even though were treated killed her in the long run. The plants are a success and the woodlice are great as well as the earthworms. King II is fat and active. I will give a female Toad one last try and if unsuccessful I may switch to male Toads only. I've had great success with Leopard Frogs so I will make the enclosure escape proof so we have no disasters again. It will be interesting to show the aging process of both species along side a mature male Toad. Should make for great documentary and hopefully will be 2 amphibians that last for years. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

The Woods is still thriving. Just quieter and lonely. 




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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Beautiful enclosure still! Have you ever thought of adding Chorus frogs to the enclosure? Even though most of the species are small, the Upland chorus frogs I owned were nice and beautiful captives, they'd do well in an enclosure like that

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> Beautiful enclosure still! Have you ever thought of adding Chorus frogs to the enclosure? Even though most of the species are small, the Upland chorus frogs I owned were nice and beautiful captives, they'd do well in an enclosure like that


I thought about adding a different species instead of the 2: Eastern Spadefoot Toads, Five Lined Skinks, Wood Frogs, Green Frogs and
Green Anoles, but I thought about the vision for this tank, and how natural the species cooperated together. I think these two (American Toad and Northern Leopard Frog) compliment each other and are able to adapt to live in a build like this. If I ever did another setup it would be with Wood Frogs and Spadefoot Toads because they are really cool. I am very experienced with both Leopards and Toads. It sucks that Spot escaped and ultimately committed suicide and the vet couldn't help Vinca, but King II is great and I knew the risks of a tank like this. To me the new Frog and Toad will be worth it. There is nothing like having the plants, animals, and insects from you're Woods living naturally in the hallway. It really feels like the Woods. Even with the setbacks and disappointments, to me this enclosure is still worth it. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

I will be following the 75 Gallon closer on YouTube since I'll be raising a tadpole to be an adult Leopard Frog and rescuing a female Toad. There will be plenty of coverage on the enclosure and the new features and animals. King II and the plants are doing great. The Pachysandra, Autumn Fern and Iris are taking over. The Periwinkle is hit and miss. Updated coming soon! You can YouTube the tank from the success from last year here:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...rF7_8wlUP1nmtx please subscribe!


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## AAron

The King and his rock. 


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## AAron

Good news! The plants have made it to April which is a record for all of the plants species making it this far. A store close to me locally owned is getting tadpoles in and will be getting Leopard Frog Tadpoles. I talked to the vet and she is expecting the Leopard Frog when I get it. Everything is in place for this new Frog and eventually female Toad to come. I have the 30 Gallon ready to quarantine now I wait for the tadpoles to morph. 


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## John Clare

Testing - ignore this post.

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## Xavier

> Good news! The plants have made it to April which is a record for all of the plants species making it this far. A store close to me locally owned is getting tadpoles in and will be getting Leopard Frog Tadpoles. I talked to the vet and she is expecting the Leopard Frog when I get it. Everything is in place for this new Frog and eventually female Toad to come. I have the 30 Gallon ready to quarantine now I wait for the tadpoles to morph. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey man, sorry I haven't been around, couldn't really post that much. Your enclosure looks nice so far, nice about the plants surviving that long dude! I guess you know you're doing something right. I'll be making an update post shortly if you want to keep your eyes out for that  :Wink:

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

So it begins 


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## AAron

He is still the King of the woods


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## AAron

King just wanted to hangout and soak for his birthday 


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## plu7o

Slowly sorting through page after page and wow what a project man. Awesome job, look forward to finishing my read through and watching this continue to grow.

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

I'm pleased to say I'll be working on my 55 Gallon Paludarium before this build, but I will have the Leopard Frog before the Vivarium gets updated. The 55 Gallon never got the chance this build did, so after 3 years it's only fair it goes first. The tadpole and King and the enclosure itself will get coverage as usual! Updates coming! Could this be the Leopard Frog for the 75 Gallon?



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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

Someone is having s great Memorial Day! I've never seen King as accurate hunting until these past few days. I can't wait to rebuild this. The tadpole became a Green Frog which I'm indifferent on. If it's a male it will be the next frog in the enclosure, but if a female then I have to release it because it will attempt to eat King. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

I have finally documented the Green Frog feeding for just the 3rd time so far and give a short clip of King perched above his log hide. Checkout the whole channel and subscribe! The 55 Gallon Paludarium videos will be out first because it's getting created, but after that this enclosure gets a makeover and hopefully for years to come. 

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...rp6P3T0hqJjpe8


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## AAron

couldnt help but see King posing for a picture so I had too


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## AAron

One of the most interesting pieces coming to this when it's updated is a waterfall. I will have a water feature for the frog of course, but I'm hoping this will actually encourage the toads to lay in it like a water dish. They don't like the large bins so hopefully this will give the toads a water source as well. I did a follow up with King's stool and the tests came back that he is clean! No parasites at all and no problems! No news on the baby green frog yet whether it's a male or female. Let's hope it's a male! More updates on the way. 


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## AAron

I have some of the best news. I have found the new female toad for the Woods. 
Not only did I find one female, I found 2.  They are ferocious and very trusting at the same time. When I fed them it was like the colored toad was an off spring related to my firs toad Toto. She is very similar. The smaller toad is similar to my recently passed toad Vinca. So now King will have 2 wives and hopefully the little Green Frog is a male! 
So far I have 
King II
Pious (smaller and shyer female toad)
Ace (hopefully baby Green Frog)
And the featured toad unnamed because she was unplanned for. As you can see I'm going with a type of monarchy and religious type of names with King and Pious, so if you have some interesting names fitting this post them! Remember it is a female toad!


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Bryce

King's wives? Are you planning to breed them?

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> King's wives? Are you planning to breed them?


I have seen some interesting options on inducing breeding and I started this build specifically to produce frogs, toads, insects, and even plants to my local ecosystem but have had a hard time with sustaining a pair. I had leopard frogs and this build is more designed for them, but I got a Green Frog by mistake and assumed it is a male I cannot keep a female because the female would try to eat King (male toad who is smallest in tank) so it will have 3 toad roommates or will be released to my parents pond with the other frogs. If I can get the toads to breed I would love to do so and I want to see now being over 2 years if King still would. If the frog gets let go then I'll look at Leopard Frogs or Wood Frogs which would be sexed pairs. 


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## KKM

I didn't read every page so I may have missed this, but are there any toxicity risks in keeping toads with frogs?  I actually have both of those species and was planning on doing a huge paludarium for the leos anyway; it'd be awesome if I could keep the toads in there as well.  Yours looks amazing!

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> I didn't read every page so I may have missed this, but are there any toxicity risks in keeping toads with frogs?  I actually have both of those species and was planning on doing a huge paludarium for the leos anyway; it'd be awesome if I could keep the toads in there as well.  Yours looks amazing!


Thanks! It depends on how many frogs and toads along with the sexes and size of the tank. The Toads may not do well in a paludarium but the Leopard Frogs like coming on land more than any other pond frog. As long as they have 3-4 inches deep and can swim around they will do great. If you have more female leopard frogs it may be a problem because they are bigger and more territorial so if you have like a 125+ gallon you can have 2 females and a few toads. The reason is to let the species get away from each other if needed. I never had a female frog in this setup but I can tell you 75 gallons if you want an authentic feel is good for 3 between toads and leopards. You may be able to do 4 which is what I had hoped, but I'm not anymore so you could attempt that. The Toads only let off the toxin if threatened and I've never seen a toad use it. I also used judgment not putting a small toad that could be eaten by a big frog together. I asked an expert and did 2 years of research on both and if a big tank is supplied, I believe this is the most rewarding and natural mix of any frogs and toads possible because they cohabitate, are easily adaptable to humidity and temperatures, get the same size, come into contact in the wild, and don't mind either ones presence. I hope this helps, I wouldn't put my toads in a paludarium but the frogs can be in a 3-1 land to water ratio. I have videos on my YouTube page of my last two attempts. I'm going to be updating this tank in the next few months. 

Here is the last video of my enclosure 
https://youtu.be/fwFoQPKryo0

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

This female toad without a name is becoming one of the most interesting of the animals. She's been in my care for 4 days and hasn't just adjusted to living in captivity, but is thriving on it. She's becoming a star before getting to the 75 Gallon. If you have a name related to the topics of religion or monarchy for a female please share! Here she is from last night attacking a worm. 
https://youtu.be/Znpwe2U7pG8


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

I have finally decided what species will be joining the American Toads in the PA Woods. I am pleased to announce that a pair of Wood Frogs will be in the 2017 build  I'm hopeful it will be a sexed pair and yes I will try and breed them. I think that's the way to go with these frogs. This enclosure is built to support Wood Frogs and Leopard Frogs. I am pleased to announce that the female toads and these frogs will be examined before joining King in the new build. There is no time table for getting all 4 new animals in the build. They will be examined one by one until they go in. The names of the inhabitants are 
King II        (Male Toad)
Pious        (Female Toad)
Unnamed  (Female Toad)
Pharaoh   (Male Wood Frog)
Ace      (Female Wood Frog)

You can still comment a name for the one female toad. Please try to keep it in the same gist as the other names! I'll post pics when I get them. 

In plants news:
I got a dwarf Japanese fern which is going to go in the build with more pachysandra to replace the myrtle. 
In other news the Iris I have in the water that survived the winter and is thriving... is a Day Lilly and it has done self maintenance so I haven't needed to cut it back. Who knew a Day Lilly could be a pond plant? It's staying a solid 18 inches tall now for 10 months. 




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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

I'm sure you are all wondering what happened to the Green Frog? Why Wood Frogs when they are hard to care for? Are you planning to breed both species?
As the baby frog matures it resembles a female more and more and I could not keep one. I thought about having 3 toads and possibly one Green or Leopard Frog and I didn't think it was fair with species balancing, so I thought of the frog who was well suited for this build because the Wood Frog is the most compatible with the American Toad as well as smaller then all other pond frogs close by, so it was very important not to over populate the woods because it would lose its natural appeal. These frogs are very communal which will mean they will be very peaceful towards the Toads. I'm switching rooms for this tank so I can keep the temp in the mid 70's to high 60's because I know they require cool temps. I'm sad by the lifespan being around 5-7 years and in captivity I hear around 2-3. This is the reason I would hibernate them to reduce stress, to increase lifespan, and with them living shorter lives breeding them to continue them is the key. While I'm breeding them I'll attempt to do the same with the Toads as well so it benefits the toads in this case. I will be breeding a few things so they will have a constant supply of food, I have a 75 Gallon so all 5 of the animals will have plenty of space with the size they are. It will be heavily planted will have a water feature and plenty of hides. I have the environment and diet down for these frogs and I'll be very careful and over cautious for these guys. This will be to my knowledge a long and thorough study on Wood Frogs with videos and success and failure so it will be very helpful. So if you read this thread you will be informed on American Toads Northern Leopard Frogs Perennials overwinter  a mixed species vivarium going right and breeding insects like woodlice earthworms and crickets. Now you can see information for Wood Frogs. I'm not sure what I should feed the frogs because I read they don't do well with earthworms and waxworms but they are along with crickets the main part of my toads diet. I am concerned how to feed outside of Roaches Crickets and such, but I'll make a thread asking for help in the Frogs topic so if you know you can post here or on there when I ask. I'm expecting this to be quite the experience. The baby frog might have found a good home with an experienced friend. So it all worked out for the best! I'll show you guys when I get them Pharaoh and Ace. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

A major setback. 

So the place I was getting the Wood Frogs from ran out of them and my order was cut off. They are still a possibility for this enclosure as I spent so much time on them studying and everything, but I've been in talks with someone who pitched a very good argument that my setup will be good for Five Lined Skinks all I need is a heat source (which I have). They do live longer, are easier to care for with how stressed the frogs can get, and will be out when the Toads sleep. So the woods will be occupied all hours of the day. The pitch was very interesting and because I have 3 toads I can't get Leopard Frogs. I researched Five Lined Skinks as well so I know them a little better then Wood Frogs. I would get a pair of Skinks of Wood Frogs. I'll have my decision and post it by Thursday night. I have a name for the unnamed toad. I'm going to name her Ace and think of another name for the female of whichever species gets added. 
On a side note: Ace is continuing to impress me with her boldness. 


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## AAron

Another major setback 
My Monsoon Misting System became defective and won't work. This is a major problem because I have 2 big tanks that now need hand sprayed. I just ordered the starter kit from mistaking but it has one nozzle to start so I have to live with that for a little while. I'm not sure how many I'll need but I'm thinking 4-5 at least with it being a 75 Gallon setup. I'm glad I got the mist king, but it had to come at one of the worst times. I'm just about finished with the updated version of this build but I'm going to wait to post anything about it picture and video wise until I get the other toads in. So with having to get a new mister it's going to push back the other species of animals a week or so. I am hoping to add a pair of Five Lined Skinks to this setup. I was hoping for Wood Frogs but I began to see how the Skinks fit more into this build then the frogs. So if all goes well I will get the Skinks but first things first and that's a mister


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## AAron

https://youtu.be/9p1Jy2rnBss

Here are the females going to join King II in his 75 Gallon PA Woods Vivarium check them out! Pious is the brown colored one on the hide and Ace is the bigger grayish one closest to me 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

I'm not showing the enclosure yet but here is King hunting a wax worm



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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

The Mistking came today so excited for this to set this up. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

From what I've seen so far, looks pretty good! I do think skinks would do nicely in that kind of set-up, just have to plan for their skittishness at first  :Smile:

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> From what I've seen so far, looks pretty good! I do think skinks would do nicely in that kind of set-up, just have to plan for their skittishness at first


I have shown Xavier the setup because he is the most experienced keeper with Five Lined Skinks so this way I can give them the best care possible. You should attach your care sheet for the Skinks on this thread because that's what I'm going off of mainly and so it can help others out with finding info. 
Quick question:
Do you guys think I should make a new thread since I will have a different species with the Toads? This can be useful for Leopard Frogs and American Toad owners and I can basically make a new one and title it American Toad and Five Lined Skink Vivarium or something. Let me know what you guys think?


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

So with this setup being changed with no Frogs I feel that it is only necessary to end this thread and start a new one with the Five Lined Skinks in the Leopard Frogs place. So this way people can refer to this thread and see the success and hard work to maintain both a frog and toad enclosure combined and this can be used for informational purposes since so many members posted in this and a lot of questions get answered. I will have a conclusion with all of the finances it took and the success and failure and etc so this gets ended in the proper way because this has been the reason I am so active on this forum. I'll share a playlist with all the videos over the 3 years and I'll leave a link to the new thread when up and the new playlist when I make videos of the enclosure. Looking forward to starting a new chapter on here with another well documented and successful experience with some of my favorite animals. I hope everyone will follow the next thread just like they did this one. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Xavier

Nice I'm sure I and everyone else will! If only Deranged Chipmunk were still around enough to see this  :Wink:

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

I miss him. He helped out a great deal with this build. 
So here is the conclusion to this build. 
Total spent without feeders $4,200
Overview:
For a mixed species Vivarium there was a lot to report on, but the main goal was to successfully House both species in a 75 Gallon Enclosure with all native plants and some native insects. The species kept were Bufo and Ranid species local to PA. The American Toad and Northern Leopard Frog. The insects and etc kept were Woodlice(pillbugs) Earthworms Red Wrigglers Crickets at times wild wood Crickets native to PA. The Crickets got to a point of 3 generations hiding from the amphibians mastering survival. I had to add new feeder Crickets because the ones who learned how to survive never got caught. 
The invasive species were Slugs Millipedes Centipedes Pond Fish a Dragon Fly and some house spiders. I never saw anything negative having these in my tank and I couldn't believe the invasive insects could make it through winter in an enclosure I thought for sure they would hibernate or go dormant. 
What I learned from the Amphibians:
A 75 Gallon setup is good for a sexed pair of toads and one Leopard Frog. The setup to my surprise was more of a shock with how the toad was dominant with another male in the enclosure and how the frog becomes more aggressive over time. The Leopard Frog never bothered the adult toads and seemed to enjoy their company. The male toad and frog lived together for around 2 years and they seemed to have actually enjoyed one another and learned how to hunt and let the other animal help them. My toad would let the frog chase the Crickets and cause them to panic and would patiently wait and nab many crickets this way. So he adapted to hunt letting the other inhabitants do the work for him. The frog knew it had speed and would attempt to eat more then the toad but it never ate a tremendous difference. When I had a female toad with the frog and male toad she was the dominant creature. The Leopard Frog actually had to compete with the female toad because she was fast for a toad, big, and accurate when catching food. The female toad was actually bigger then the male frog and would over power him in some cases when they were hunting. I believe placing the frog with the female toad first showed the frog that it could not bully anything because it wasn't the biggest and that's why when I added the male toad they got along because the male was peaceful and the Leopard Frog could hunt without having to compete. This is because my female passed away. I attempted to add a female frog but one died in quarantine and another had a brain injury and was unsafe to place in the setup so only one frog was kept. I added two young Toads a male and female for a short period in 2016 with the male frog and toad. The male bonded with the female and they were inseparable. I mean look in this thread and you'll see him always with her. He dominated the other male and so did the Leopard Frog. It became unsafe for him after 4 days and so I had to remove him for his safety. The young female didn't settle in captivity and made the Leopard Frog act out of character because it for the first time in years attempted to escape with this toad in here. The frog did not like the female toad and would show dominant behavior and aggression towards the young toad, but the toad never showed signs of stress from the frog. She ate and was fat while acting as a regular toad would. I learned the reason the frog tried to escape was because the new female had a parasite that spread to the frog and adult male toad. This led to her death months later and my frog committing suicide in the same week. The frog found a way out and the female toad died of the parasite. I managed to get my male healthy again but he showed signs of actual depression or something wrong when he hopped over and found the female dead in the hut he has never been the same. 
However, if the animals are healthy and treated unless captive bred and guaranteed healthy then that would be the best bet to accomplish this. 

Material used:
Rocks and pond liner for drainage layer and topsoil and eco earth for soil. 
Dish container for water bin for frog. 

Plants:
Pachysandra Autumn Fern Perriwinkle Day Lilly were the successful plants kept in this setup. Need to be fertilized and watered to maintain growth. 

Diet:
Crickets Waxworms Earthworms Red Wrigglers Woodlice Baby Yellow Jackets Earwigs Stone Centipede Fish (for frog only) grass hoppers and wild crickets. 

Accessories:
Monsoon RS400 Misting System with 6 nozzles 
Odyssea 48" light with timer
UTH 40 Gallon
Small CPU Fans
Solar Power Lights
4-5 Hides

Conclusion:
If it is done with proper care and how I attempted this setup it can work and be successful. These species can cohabitate nice if the animals are the same size. I would advise against having 2 frogs and one toad because the frogs are too high strong and could become dominant. I recommend 2 toads and 1 frog in a 75 Gallon due to the info of my findings however there could be exceptions and two pairs could potentially work. If the animals are raised together from smaller sizes they will learn to live with one another and will have no issues. If you release a toad it seems the frog or frogs will test it to see how the toad will respond. So make sure the toads are the first occupants. It will be much work and can have a lot of time and money invested into it but if done right can be very rewarding. These are the only Frogs and Toads I would recommend keeping along with some relatives 
Southern Toads Southern Leopard Frogs Eastern Spade Foot Toads. Other species will not meet the same requirements. 

Temperature/Humidity 
Mine were kept from 60-75 humidity and 83 day temp to 70 night temp. These are the only species and subspecies that can adapt to live together because they can tolerate the change in more humidity and slight heat. It's not advised by this thread to have the humidity high and the temp high I was at my hallways mercy in the summer. I had fans blowing on top of the enclosure for constant air flow and that's important. The frog went in the water when too dry. The soil was always moist so the toads were okay. It is important to read care guides from this forum and reptiles magazine for info on these species before keeping even one of these animals. 

Lighting:
T5 bulbs and could simulate morning mid day evening and moon light with my fixture. This is important for the plants and to help the animals tell what time of day it is. No UVB was used however it can be beneficial for the frogs because they will bask in the light. The animals loved when the moon light was on and the mister would go off because it simulated a night rain shower. I had a Day and night cycle with the seasons. 8-9 spring and summer, 8-7 winter and fall. Moon light 12-1 so they would think clouds covered the moon at times. 

Supplements:
Calcium with D3 and Repti Vite without Calcium D3. Crickets got fish food bird seed honey strawberry blueberry apples and water. 

Housing: 
2 toads 20 Gallon long
1-2 Frogs 29 Gallon Long 
Minimum size tank 75 not 50 because you want to have more then the minimum for larger species and so you can create for both species what they need. 

Animal Size:
Both species 2-4 Inches

Life Span:
American Toad up to 12-40 years debatable

Northern Leopard Frog 
5-12 Years

Other facts:
The Toads never went in the water but the frog stayed out of the water for hours. This species will wonder from water for periods of time. The frog would go to the far end of the tank to explore and hide. It didn't usually stay by the water. 

If these species are housed together make sure they are very close to size because the animals will be dominant over a much smaller one of either species. This is what I learned bringing my favorite frog the Northern Leopard Frog with my favorite amphibian the American Toad together. I hope this gives the thread the end it deserves. The findings were very extraordinary and sometime down the road I may attempt this once again. 



http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...1uO-9cQqrFgVcz
The Vivarium 

https://youtu.be/HvuGFTAQ1CY
The Female Toad and Male Frog Hunting

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

Hey everyone! I have begun the new journey on another thread so if you wish to follow this new build you can here:
75 Gallon PA Woods Vivarium    (Toads & Skinks)

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...8&share_type=t
I hope you will follow and support this new thread as much as you have supported this one. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## AAron

One more update:
The lone survivor of this build 
King II American Toad has been released into the wild today. He was just not happy in captivity anymore and would not eat for me. He had his own enclosure and everything but it didn't matter. While he's been in my care for 2 years and 5 months I knew he missed the wild so he has a fresh opportunity to have a life for himself out there. I got a fair well video for him that I'll post soon on here for you all because he was the star of this thread and on YouTube as well. 


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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Bryce

Very sorry to hear that, man. I hope he does well in his return to the wild!!

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Cliygh and Mia 2, Larry Wardog

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