# General Topics > Vivarium, Terrarium & Enclosure Discussion >  150 gallon Viv build

## AlexanderSalamander

All right, my dream is finally going to come true, I have a 150 gallon tank and its now gonna be a huge Viv for my blue to tongue skink and four whites tree frogs. I just ordered all of the materials and can't wait to start. Also I'm soooo excited because all of the plants are coming straight from Josh's frogs instead of Home Depot like my first Viv.

im gonna post as I go, but it will be a slow and steady build so don't expect everything at once, and since I've been planning this for months I have a very specific vision which I hope comes true.

ill post pics as soon as I figure out how.

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## Ryan

if you are adding the whites with the bluey, *please* be careful whenever mixing species even if they occur in the same region. Blue tongues can be verocious predators in the wild capable of eating small mammals. You may want to get some very hardy plants or plant them with the pot so your skink doesnt dig them up. Make sure your plants are non toxic as well. Good luck with the viv  :Smile:

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## AlexanderSalamander

Thanks, and yeah I understand all of the risks, but I have planned so as to minimize their interaction, and also I will have all of the plants on the ground potted

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## Amy

I just hope we aren't reading a thread here in a few months "HELP!  My skink tried to eat my frog!" Skinks CAN be violent if they feel like their space is invaded.  I love love love skinks, but the best thing you can do for the safety of your skink and other animals is to keep it housed alone.  It should not even be housed with other skinks.

I'm curious, how do you plan to take care of their different humidity requirements?

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## bill

Curious to see how this all works out. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## AlexanderSalamander

my plan is to put in all of the vines (real) that i have collected coming out of the background to provide perches, along with one rock ledge. The background will be planted with 2 pothos, a wandering jew, a ficus burgundy, and a large brom. The ground will be planted with 5 australian ferns, and one of those small twisty trunk tree, im not sure of the name. i purchased a monsoon mi ster system which will be aimed to provide a humidity gradient which will be more humid in the canopy in the middle of the tank, seeing as the nozzles will be pointed inward and level with the upper half of the tank, also there will be a hot side with a large basking rock on the ground for the skink, along with a large heating pad on the side of the tank. The ground plants will be potted, but the pots wont be visible with the six inches of soil, and the magnolia leaf litter. On the opposite side of the tank, i will craft a hollow tree stump out of great stuff, which will be too tall for the skink to access, which will contain 1-2 inches of water for the frogs to soak in, and there will be a viewport in the side of the fake stump so that the frogs can be seen soaking, and lastly, there will be many nooks and crannies in the background for the frogs to hide in. this should all minimize interaction. Also, the frogs i purchase will be adults so that will help in the area of maybe being eaten. Lastly, my skink will be kept well fed at all times so that she isnt driven to eat the frogs. 

Tell me what you think of all of this!

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## Amy

Well fed does not mean non-violent.  He doesn't have to be hungry to take a snap at a whites, just annoyed.  You can't force them to stay in one area or another and away from each other.  Even if there is no attack, your whites could end up very stressed living into such close proximity to a predator.  

I also foresee the humidity being an issue.  I understand what you're trying to do, but achieving a gradient humidity is going to be very difficult in 28 inches.  22 inches of you're doing 6 inches of substrate.

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## AlexanderSalamander

whites need 50 to 60 percent humidity, and blueys do live in these conditions in the wild in northern australia and indonesia. Also i will do controlled introductions and if any little thing goes wrong, i will call it all of.

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## bill

Just out of curiosity, what's your experience with bts and white's?


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## AlexanderSalamander

my bluey is about three years old and very tame. She enjoys the occasional superworm, but mostly dines on fruit mixed with various cooked meats, eggs and different veggies such as spinach and collard greens. I havent ever owned a whites, but i have had success with a cuban tree frog and a tiger legged monkey frog. I have been researching whites for months now, and i feel confident that i can handle em. Im not an inexperienced keeper, and i feel that this project is well planned and doable but all advice is welcome!

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## bill

Well, my honest opinion. Even though you believe you have it well planned, even the best vivarium builders wouldn't attempt this. There is too much difference in care requirements to build into a little 150 gallon tank. Not to mention that only expert keepers should even attempt a multi species enclosure. 

I hope it works out for you, but honestly, I see disaster in the making. Good luck with it.  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Paul

I see a disaster in the making as well. One issue I know you will have early on is humidity. You can mist nonstop and a bulb used to create a basking spot will burn off the humidity in a matter of hours. Misting will cause the humidity to spike, but within a short period of time the basking spot will burn the humidity out of the air. You will end up with a flu False Bottom or a swamped out substrate in short order.

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## Lynn

> Thanks, and yeah I understand all of the risks, but I have planned so as to minimize their interaction, and also I will have all of the plants on the ground potted


It's so, so tempting to mix.
If you had an enclosure twice that size....would still say 

Respectively -------->  Yikes! Don't do it...with these 2 species. Your Whites will lose a limb or fail to thrive from the constant stress /threat.  Despite many plants--- the frogs will never feel like they can "_get away_". This is very hard on them  :Frown: 

Your Bluey will love this big enclosure? 

 :Butterfly:

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## AlexanderSalamander

I understand and that's why I'm gonna post about it. I want to document how it goes and it will hopefully be an inspirational tale rather than a cautionary one.

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## AlexanderSalamander

And yes, my bluey will LOVE this, I do have one other thing to point out. My bluey is diurnal, and at night he buries himself in the substrate, and since the whites are nocturnal, this should give them freedom to roam all night without being disturbed. Anyway, I like to hear all of your opinions, and I can't wait to start the Viv itself

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## bill

> And yes, my bluey will LOVE this, I do have one other thing to point out. My bluey is diurnal, and at night he buries himself in the substrate, and since the whites are nocturnal, this should give them freedom to roam all night without being disturbed. Anyway, I like to hear all of your opinions, and I can't wait to start the Viv itself


You really do not know white's. Yes, they are nocturnal, but they do roam during the day. They will spend time on the substrate during the day. Will you be there all day every day to protect them? Planting ferns "sounds" like a good idea, I am sure, but it won't provide protection to them as much as you think it will. And what are your plans to deal with the anaerobic bacteria that is going to build up within an enclosed area with 6" of substrate? Not to mention a substrate that will probably be too humid for the skink over the long run. How do you plan to keep the temp gradients consistent? That basking area is going to force the heat across the entire tank, raising the temp inside to possibly dangerous levels for the whites. 

Look, I admire your enthusiasm, and I am the first to admit that I love a multispecies tank, as long as it's done right. And that includes choosing the right animals to go together in the tank. Unfortunately, this is not a good combo. In fact, it's a bad, bad combo. Knowing what I know about building tanks, small and large (I have built a 125 for white's), I just know there is no way to keep both animals safe, healthy and happy. My suggestion, build the tank for the skink and build a smaller one for white's. Get some experience under your belt. You need to be able to spot problems BEFORE they happen in such an enclosure, and I am sorry, you just do not have it. I honestly believe you are putting the frogs, at the very least, in danger. Not only from the bts, but from poor husbandry since their requirements can't really be met. 

Just my $.02


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## AlexanderSalamander

You certainly know your stuff. Ill do what you say, and thanks for everything!

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## Lija

Wow people you are so nice about it, im like impressed!


 Disclaimer - no  intended and everything that im gonna say please dont take personally, im having here only best interests of bts and whites in mind, good intensions and all  :Smile: 


 Im not a nice person as you all know lol so im gonna tell this to Alexander - are you out of your mind? ( sorry didnt mean yelling, it just happened)  are you still planning to house bts with whites despite everything you've been told already, although perhaps if you are listening to Bill may be that is not the case anymore  :Smile:  that is probably the worst idea i've heard in very very long time. The general rule in exotic keeping says - NEVER ever mix species in captivity! Especially so incomparable as these two are, although you can find worse combinations like darts and bearded dragon for example lol




 Bts are awesome, hand down , they are ones of the nicest skinks to have, the only drawback is the cage requirements, not many people have space for that.  Sometime ago i bookmarked this page, because it is awesome, perhaps you find it useful  :Wink:  
Detailed Blue Tongue Skink Caresheet - BlueTongueSkinks.NET



look at the positive, now you can build not one but TWO tanks! However im not exactly sure what you need to plant in a tank so bts wont crush it, but that is not my area of expertise  :Smile:

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## AlexanderSalamander

Yeah! but I think I'll give the bluey the 150. I get it definitely, I guess I was just relying more on the size of the tank and its decor to reduce interactions instead of thinking of all of the risks. I'm still confused on one subject tho,  I've read that if the inhabitants of a cohabitation tank are from the same geographic area, live on different levels, and have non overlapping diets, along with the reduced interactions due to nocturnal and diurnal habits that it should have worked out, had I done it. Which I won't.

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## bill

Size also plays a factor. For example, mantellas and day geckos live almost side by side in Madagascar, but i would never put a giant day gecko in with mantellas. They would be continuously stressed. 

There is also a difference of where in that geographical area they live. Just because they both inhabit Indonesia, does not mean their wild habitats are the same. Sure, their borders may overlap in places, but they have millions of hectares to avoid each other. Your plan puts them trapped inside a 6'x2'x2' (roughly) box. No where to run, no where to hide. I know to humans, a 150 gallon tank is huge. But to our critters, that's nothing. Imagine being in an 8'x4' jail cell with a honey badger. The badger may be calm at first, but what do you do when the badger gets in it's mood. I know, extreme exaggeration, but it makes the point lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## AlexanderSalamander

Thanks for being so nice about this guys, I'm not a newbie to herps, that's for sure, I've just been hungry to do something more.  I'm still gonna build the tank, just the way I planned, but I don't think I'll be missing species anytime soon for fear of the wrath of Lija  :Smile:

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## bill

Haha! She scares the heck out of me too!! Lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

You can always do something "more". It's all about being creative. You can build an incredible natural environment in the 150 for the skink. Or for frogs for that matter. It was just a bad pairing. That's all. We just don't want to see you make a very costly mistake.  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Amy

Did you change up your BTS diet at all like we talked about in the other thread?  I'm curious to see how he does with live feeders.  I forgot to ask in there too if you're supplementing with vitamins.  Also, def share some pictures!  I love skinks.  I WILL own one eventually...I'm very slow when it comes to deciding whether or not I'm ready for a new animal.  Until then...I'll just keep reading  :Big Grin:

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## bill

> Thanks for being so nice about this guys, I'm not a newbie to herps, that's for sure, I've just been hungry to do something more.  I'm still gonna build the tank, just the way I planned, but I don't think I'll be missing species anytime soon for fear of the wrath of Lija


I should change my example to: you're locked in a 4x8 room with Lija..........lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## AlexanderSalamander

Lillypad, yes I did eliminate the cat food from her diet, and yes, from time to time I do supply her with super worms, but I run out quick and my local privately owned pet store doesn't carry mealies, I haven't checked, but does petco or petsmart? And I totally should have taken pics of her today bcs I fed her some strawberries, collard greens, and her favorite non live food, boneless skinless chicken. She was having a ball!

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## Amy

Do you have vitamins in her diet?  Chicken isn't going to give a lot of nutrition.  You can try earth worms too, might take some coaxing, my friend feeds his skink mostly earthworms and dubia roaches for protein.  Do you ever buy the chicken hearts and livers?  If you boil them, you can throw them in a food processor and make a paste that she will probably love.  I do that for my cat for an occasional treat.  Still not for the bulk of the diet, but once in a while is fine.  I would completely skip mealworms, but an occasional superworm is ok, very occasional though, like a treat.

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## Lija

> Thanks for being so nice about this guys, I'm not a newbie to herps, that's for sure, I've just been hungry to do something more.  I'm still gonna build the tank, just the way I planned, but I don't think I'll be missing species anytime soon for fear of the wrath of Lija



 Im very very impressed you got it so fast, Bill took so long to figure that out! Something to learn Bill, eh?

 Look i have suggestion for your 150 gal - just look at  some builds by the fellow mentioned above. You can do crazy things in a tank of that size if nobody is gonna crush them  :Smile:

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deranged chipmunk

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## Lija

> Lillypad, yes I did eliminate the cat food from her diet, and yes, from time to time I do supply her with super worms, but I run out quick and my local privately owned pet store doesn't carry mealies, I haven't checked, but does petco or petsmart? And I totally should have taken pics of her today bcs I fed her some strawberries, collard greens, and her favorite non live food, boneless skinless chicken. She was having a ball!


 Have you tried breeding mealies or superworms? Or dubia? All of that is easy to breed and you will have constant food supply without a need of running to the store  :Smile:  i'd be careful feeding raw chicken due to possible salmonella contamination and what they are feeding to the those poor birds. Have you tried nightcrawlers? Mine goes nuts over them.

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## Ryan

Ive personally never had luck breeding my mealies, Ive tried the rack system with the adults on top and the larva on the bottom, the boxes the beetles are in have holes for the new worms to crawl through, whats your technique?

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## Lija

Dont have one lol i have nobody who can eat mealies  :Smile:  only skink, but im not gonna go crazy over mealworms, he loves his nightcrawlers lol Phoenix eating - YouTube

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## AlexanderSalamander

I'll definitely try breeding some supers, and I haven't actually tried night crawlers, although my tiger salamander does love them. One thing that surprised me was that I once got some feeder guppies for my tiger, who actually likes the water! And I gave one to my skink just to see what would happen, and she loved it. What a surprise! But yeah the vitamins in worms+supers are good along with their protein so ill get on trying to breed some. BTW do they need light or can I keep them in a cabinet beneath my 150 gal?

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## Lija

They couldnt care less about the light  :Wink:  food and warmth are all that's needed. 
 I have never thought about guppies and sally... Hm, i should get some when he is healthy.

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## AlexanderSalamander

I'd even try goldfish if Sally is big enough, when I gave Saphira the guppy she liked it but it could have been much bigger and she could still have handled it.

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## AlexanderSalamander

So my materials will be here on friday, i did a HUGE amazon order. I cant wait to start, but i do have one not so small issue. Around the top edge of the glass, there are hard water/mineral stains, and i have tried vinegar, windex, and just plain scrubbing to get them off. I have heard that steel wool works but im kinda worried that that would ruin the glass. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about getting it off, and also, what would the viv look like if i couldnt get the stains off, bcs my other vivs havent had this problem.

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## Amy

I spray really stubborn hard water with straight vinegar and then use a scotch-brite (green scrubby) pad.  Then rinse rinse rinse.

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## AlexanderSalamander

Ill definitely try that, what are your thoughts on the steel wool? Im thinking that I wont risk it.

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## Amy

I have never used it, scotch brite can be pretty rough stuff too but I've never had it scratch my tanks.  My 35g hex was horrible when I got it, it took a lot of elbow grease and some raw hands (wear gloves!) but I got it cleaned.

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## AlexanderSalamander

I have some scotch brite pads, are you talking about the yellowish kind with the soft side and the scratchy side?

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## Amy

Those should work as long as they're new and scotch brite brand.

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## AlexanderSalamander

Im trying it out right now and it seems to be working a bit, so heres hoping!!!!1!

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## AlexanderSalamander

So most of my materials came today. I'm still waiting on the heating pad and misting system along with one more package of coco fiber. Now I have to somehow move the gigantic tank onto the ground so that I can apply the great stuff, silicone, etc...

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## AlexanderSalamander

I feel like a kid in a candy shop right now. The rest of the materials came today and I spent like an hour playing with the mister, I LOVE those things. The actually building will start soon, but I am going to Florida in a couple of days so it will be a little while until I can get very much done. I love making vivs, and the anticipation before the build is excruciating but at the same time, its kinda enjoyable. I'm sure lots of you guys can understand

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## Lija

> I feel like a kid in a candy shop right now.


lol oh boy lol i can so very much relate  :Smile:

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## AlexanderSalamander

Since I've got the time I figure ill show you guys some of my other projects. The first pic is my 26 gallon bowfront aquarium with new world fishes (except 2 fish that I accidentally purchased without checking where they were from first). And the second pic is of my shelving unit that I'm converting into a show rack for my 10 gallon nanocube simplistic Viv for my tiger legged monkey frog. And my tiger salamander along with my Leos and pastel ball python, whose tanks won't fit without some adjustments.
picture sucks bcs it was taken with my iPad. Sorry

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## AlexanderSalamander

Pics are in the wrong order but you get the idea.

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## Lija

You have so much more space for a new tanks!

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## AlexanderSalamander

Well I can really only fit one or two  more tanks on the unit once i get one of the top dividers cut so that i can fit the snake tank, and the large middle compartment will have my leos tank. But yeah andI'm hoping to find something interesting like a caecillian because I've always wanted one, so if anyone knows where to get one, give me a holler.

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## AlexanderSalamander

So I'm trying out some of the wood, and this piece has a lot of potential. I was thinking of planting a money tree in the position it is poctured in, but now I'm debating whether to do that, or just luse this piece in instead

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## AlexanderSalamander

Back from Florida means back to the build but you can check out the finds from my trip in the field work section under pana city trip

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