# Frogs & Toads > Toads >  Some pics of the girls

## Crystal

and the 28th or 29th (i forget which) is the 1 year anniversary of Banjo's abduction.  we're already celebrating.

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## maxQ

Great looking girls, how many Eastern American Toads can I put in a 20 Gal L, two? Who's your supplier?

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## Crystal

> Great looking girls, how many Eastern American Toads can I put in a 20 Gal L, two? Who's your supplier?


Their tank is a little over 20gal but I still feel like I want a bigger one for them. 
I found Banjo hopping on the sidewalk on a rainy night and took her home.  Fought with myself over whether to keep her but it's obvious how that turned out.
Ukulele belonged to a guy on craigslist who'd had her for about 4yrs but couldn't care for her anymore so took the hour long drive into the city to get her in July.  Oops, I told him a while ago I'd send more pics of her. Should do that.
They're so much fun but i've reached my space limit.  They should be out soon looking for places to hibernate.  I lived in Maryland for 6yrs but I was a little kid, not out at night, so never saw any.  Spent my time wading thru creeks and playing with bugs in the dirt but I'm sure they were snoozing all around me.

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## Gail

They're looking good.

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## Crystal

Yeah they're cute with their dirty faces, and voracious eaters, but I haven't found a poo in what feels like forever.  Only when one of them goes in the water dish.  Neither seem sick so I'm hoping that they go in the burrows they dig, and when those burrows collapse, the poo gets buried.  I don't love the idea that their dirt is riddled with hidden poos, but I suppose I'll find them sooner or later.

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## Gail

That's why I LOVE the springtails, they will clean that right outta there.  Because I use a soil/coco fiber mix I can't tell if it's poop or soil unless it's covered in sprintails, then I know.  Unless they go on the moss, cork bark or water dish.

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## maxQ

> Their tank is a little over 20gal but I still feel like I want a bigger one for them. 
> I found Banjo hopping on the sidewalk on a rainy night and took her home.  Fought with myself over whether to keep her but it's obvious how that turned out.
> Ukulele belonged to a guy on craigslist who'd had her for about 4yrs but couldn't care for her anymore so took the hour long drive into the city to get her in July.  Oops, I told him a while ago I'd send more pics of her. Should do that.
> They're so much fun but i've reached my space limit.  They should be out soon looking for places to hibernate.  I lived in Maryland for 6yrs but I was a little kid, not out at night, so never saw any.  Spent my time wading thru creeks and playing with bugs in the dirt but I'm sure they were snoozing all around me.


Awesome, I love them, I am out of room too as I have 7 Vivs with different species but I am always making room for more. I picked up a few 20 L and a 90 Custom at Goodwill really cheap so Im looking for something new. Ive been in Maryland for a few years now from Philly, I live at the base of the Cotoctan Mountains so I always go play with the Frogs and Toads up there but I don't bring them home....yet. : )My Tomato's make human size Poo's so there is no missing those.

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## Crystal

Springtails are pretty expensive, which stinks.  Maybe I'll break a pipe and hope for mildew.  Hah.  I'm jealous of whoever might need the Orkin Man to get rid of them.

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## Gail

I bought springtails 2 years ago, and it's been going since then.  As long as you don't let the viv dry out, and keep food in there they just keep on going.  I always have a
piece of bug burger in there to feed the springtails, pill bugs and any stray feeders that might have made a run for it.  Jumbo 32 oz Temperate Springtail (Colombella) Culture - Springtails | Josh's Frogs




> Springtails are pretty expensive, which stinks.  Maybe I'll break a pipe and hope for mildew.  Hah.  I'm jealous of whoever might need the Orkin Man to get rid of them.

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## Crystal

> I bought springtails 2 years ago, and it's been going since then.  As long as you don't let the viv dry out, and keep food in there they just keep on going.  I always have a
> piece of bug burger in there to feed the springtails, pill bugs and any stray feeders that might have made a run for it.  Jumbo 32 oz Temperate Springtail (Colombella) Culture - Springtails | Josh's Frogs


they were the 1st i checked out, and shipping was a lot.  is the $8 bottle of springtail food necessary if they're going into toad tank?
Also checked out petco, but skeptical and josh's frogs have plants i like for toady tank.  i think they might ship together as live goods,but not sure.  i'd go for it, if that were the case.  my bank is offering me 10% cash back at petsmart, but they don't stock them at all, as far as their website shows.  
Seems like a mighty sound investment, if i can keep them alive.
Someone pooed in the water dish today, so yay...

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## Gail

For the springtails in the tank I keep a piece of bug burger under a small piece of bark.  They still do their janitorial duties, but having the xtra food also increases their production. Now if you don't need to put the whole colony in the tank just keep the others in a plastic container w/the charcoal, water level just at charcoal level and put pieces of white rice on top.  The rice will mold and the springtails eat that.  You just need to remember to keep adding the rice so they have food, or you can use the bug burger, which I love this stuff to feed to all the feeder bugs.

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## maxQ

I keep looking at your pics and am in awe of how handsome your girls are, I live in The Cotoctan Mountains in Maryland and cant find any Eastern American Toads...ARG. But I now have summoned friends to find me a couple.  :Big Grin:

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## Crystal

> I keep looking at your pics and am in awe of how handsome your girls are, I live in The Cotoctan Mountains in Maryland and cant find any Eastern American Toads...ARG. But I now have summoned friends to find me a couple.


Rainy nights bring them out.  In summer as well as fall.  It was about 8:30pm 1yr ago yesterday that I abducted Banjo.  She was about an inch and a quarter, now 3.5".  Still, Uki seems to dwarf her tho she's not all that much bigger, but Banjo can hold her own.
And thank you; I'm always in awe of them too.

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## Gail

Not abducted, but rescued.  :Wink: 


> Rainy nights bring them out.  In summer as well as fall.  It was about 8:30pm 1yr ago yesterday that I abducted Banjo.  She was about an inch and a quarter, now 3.5".  Still, Uki seems to dwarf her tho she's not all that much bigger, but Banjo can hold her own.
> And thank you; I'm always in awe of them too.

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## Crystal

Bought some Canadian nightcrawlers a while back,  and they're like 2 meals at once so not so bad that you get less in cup ta the Europeans.  Banjo had trouble wrangling such a large worm at 1st while Uki wanted seconds.  Now roles are nearly reversed but they both like them, tho I still use the European ones too.  Banjo devoured a cluster of them at once the other night, and I was like whoa, hold up little girl, save some for your elder.  They're becoming more alike every day.  I have videos of this morning's feeding, will post when this thing cooperates.

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## Crystal

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=y...e_gdata_player
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-KaO90g...e_gdata_player

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## Gail

Love this!!  I wish I could get mine to eat worms, they look at me like I'm crazy when I put them in their viv for food. I always have the canadian night crawlers for my garter snakes & I've offered them a few times, but it's a no-go for the toads.


> http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=y...e_gdata_player
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-KaO90g...e_gdata_player

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## Crystal

> Love this!!  I wish I could get mine to eat worms, they look at me like I'm crazy when I put them in their viv for food. I always have the canadian night crawlers for my garter snakes & I've offered them a few times, but it's a no-go for the toads.


Have you tried the Europeans? They're smaller and you get more in a cup, 30 as opposed to 18 at wmart.  Maybe they'd be less intimidated?  It was hilarious when Banjo took down a tangle of them at once.

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## Crystal

Banjo emerging from her burrow on Saturday.  I came home on break from work to feed them and couldn't find her, so Uki got the bulk of waxworms.

Home again after appt, wanted to feed them but Banjo is shiny and in midshed, so it'll have to wait til tonight and i may as well go back to work.

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## maxQ

I love your girls (Toads)

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## Crystal

> I love your girls (Toads)


My "girls" aren't bad either... I'm sorry, little loopy.  I call the cats my girls too, so I need to elaborate with warty gals or furry gals.  

Banjo is my baby.  I wouldn't say I love her more but I can't help being partial to the one I watched grow up.  Ukulele is a sweet menace tho.   :Smile:

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## Crystal

Had to get up early for an appt this morning and as usual, every critter needed feeding when I got home from work at 10.  
Banjo decided to take a long time stalking and swallowing her Canadian worm.  She's usually more contemplative than Uki, but she really took her sweet toady time last night.  But she did the toe tappin thing and I wish I'd been filming cuz it was crazy cute.  Worth the extra wait (I stick around to make sure they both eat and to remove plate).  I equate it to a dog wagging it's tail, and that she's excited about the impending meal.  But my real theory is that the movement/vibration may be intended to make prey move so she can more easily locate and get it.  Their vision up close isn't so good I guess.  Not sure if that's correct or if it works.  Maybe works better out in the wild.
Regardless, the taptaptippitytap of both toes is just adorable.

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## MatthewM1

I've noticed my little toadlet toe tap while he's hunting as well. It's like he's just so excited to chase down crickets he can't hold still =p

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2

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## Crystal

> I've noticed my little toadlet toe tap while he's hunting as well. It's like he's just so excited to chase down crickets he can't hold still =p
> 
> Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2


It's so cute, and on a toadlet, knock me over!  Banjo (uki too) are already adorable when fixated on prey, but when she wiggles her toes, it's almost too much.  "Gonna eat that gonna eat that gonna eat it eat it eat it" is what I imagine she's thinking and maybe tapping a beat.  

I have pics I wanted to post of their new water bowl and hide cave, but apparently I can't upload.  Maybe this will work....
https://www.facebook.com/crystal.fn....01646033085425

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## Mmfh

I love your toads!!!! Cant wait to see mine toe wiggle, sounds so cute! I found a little quarter size toad this spring. I'm feeding him on small crickets, giant springtails, bean beetles ( that he loves), and pill bugs. I currently have so many springtails I have no idea what to do with them all. They are very easy to keep, let me know if you need the details  :Smile:  got mine from bugsincyberspace, cheap.

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## Gail

Hey Crystal, how's the T. girls?  Didn't know if maybe them have gone down for the winter or not.

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## Crystal

> Hey Crystal, how's the T. girls?  Didn't know if maybe them have gone down for the winter or not.


They're both well, fat and active, but not as nutty aggressive as over the summer.  I got moss for them as well as new hide and soaking bowl, and furniture was a hit but working so much it took some time to get moss in there.  Uki was fine with it but Banjo refused to sit or burrow unless I cleared a space for her.  So, perfectly good moss, tossed.  That lil girl has the final silent say.

My father died last month.  It's almost not right to say it was unexpected, but it really was.  Dialysis related blood infection.  He survived a massive stroke, kidney failure, and had an implanted defibrillator.  Over the last 8yrs.  He coded, they revived him, but unconscious, he went into cardiac arrest and they couldn't bring him back.  I swear that if he hadn't been unconscious, he would still be alive.  My dad was a fighter, a survivor.  I got a lot more than the genetic disease from him.  That's my takeaway.
So I had to go home for 3 days (home is NJ) and fed toads til they just sat swallowing, full, left fresh water, had Paul peek at them, and they were fine.

Right before all that, Walmart had NO worms, so I panicked that they weren't getting more so bought dubia and mealworms.  Walmart did restock, (turns out my complaint that they were mostly moldy got things moving, yeah go me!) but the gals were roach happy up until yesterday when I ran out.  I hid them, in box and container they arrived in, so sort of in plain sight...  Felt bad, cuz he doesn't want roaches in his house, but at the time, I felt I didn't have a choice.  Fatties gotta eat.

I really miss my breeding dubia.  Someday, some way...  Cuz with no bug faces to feed, my carrots go bad.  Not breeding creepy crawlies is just wasteful.  

Thanks for inquiring about them; I've meant to update, but I don't get email notifications anymore, so tonight I just wandered over here on a whim.  Ought to do that more often.

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## Gail

So sorry to hear about your Dad passing. It's hard losing a family member no matter what the circumstances are, weather it be better for the individual or not. But on a good note........B-flat, happy to hear the girls are doing good. 

I wonder why you aren't getting e-mail notices on the threads you're subscribed to? Unless you accidentally clink on the unsubscribe link, I've done that before when in a rush. Guess you need to go back and do some input on some threads to see if that will reboot it.

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## Crystal

Some time between last night and this afternoon, Ukulele passed away.  I was hoping she was maybe hibernating, above ground but under log hide. Banjo was right next to her, but she is fine.  Banjo was the last one to eat a worm and I should have known then.
I don't know how old she is/was, but old enough to have been gravid.  Was a chubby little thing.  Not that little really. The guy I adopted he from had had her for 4-5yrs, and found her in NH woods.  Always ate like a champ.
When I held her, I thought, hey she's breathing, but it was just my hand shaking.   Opened her mouth, nothing stuck in there, tho her tongue was white.
 Changed Banjo's dirt, and Uki is in a box with dirt, hoping she'll wake up but her eyes are closed...  Waiting for a thaw on Fri to bury her.  Post-mortum pics coming, I apologize in advance...

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## Carlos

I'm very sorry for Ukulele's death Crystal  :Frown:  !

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yoshimi

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## Crystal

Yeah, not a hibernation...  I go her mouth open for pic (thoiught thery were always pink) and cleaned he up for burial...
r

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## Gail

So sorry to read about this.  I lost my Rosie in May of 2012 from being egg bound, she was huge like Uki was.  Guess that's why I prefer boys.

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## Crystal

Banjo is still OK, gonna get a fat worm before work, or on break or at some point today.  She's sitting (I dunno about enjoying) new dirt but it's entirely her kingdom (queendom?) now.  

Uki was always a chubba, I'd assumed she'd had eggs at some point, certainly old enough.  I thought maybe bloat but touching her sides always just felt soft.  And she looks especially massive in that post mortum pic, not holding herself up.  I'd like to know what happened, but unless someone has an idea before she goes into ground tomorrow (thaw, we're putting her under a new tree in backyard that will be her tree as it grows), I have to assume old age or she ate moss or mealworm that just didn't pass.  The moss has been gone for a while but I'm sure there were remnants.   I felt nothing abnormally hard touching her sides and tummy.  

She was always the best eater, but last feeding, I had to put her worm back in cup.  That was a first, and I blamed it on winter.
I can't even tell the guy I adopted her from, cuz his email was a craigslist email and invalid now.  He thought it was his personal email addy but i never bother to inform him otherwise.  Maybe better he doesn't know.  About uki, I mean.

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## Gail

I would have to know what would cause this.  Have you thought of cutting her open to look?  That's how I found out Rosie was egg bound.

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## Crystal

> I would have to know what would cause this.  Have you thought of cutting her open to look?  That's how I found out Rosie was egg bound.


I feel like I need to know too, that's why I washed her to look for wounds.  I don't think I could do it tho, fear of blades, no scalpel.  And more desecration when she's pretty much frozen (in dirt in a box with a lid with holes (have none without holes) with a phone book on top inside another plastic tote in our breeze way with big ice packs.  Her poor little mouth is hanging open.
If I opened her up, I might find eggs but its the wrong season right, and might not be the cause.  I'd have to look into her intestines for something like moss jamming it up.  And even that may not be the cause.
There WAS something small on her lower belly near leg but I wasn't sure if it was rot or a cut or a bite or heaven forbid, mealworm chewing through her.  I got pics.  It didn't look infected and camera died before I could get better shots.  Looked like a little missing skin.  She always collected dirt on lower belly and chin, since I adopted her,  It'd be gone after a shed but come right back.  Can't see the cause of that.
Maybe the 4 or 5 yrs as a pet without supplements had an effect on her.  Maybe she was older than we thought.  
She died Wednesday, its now Fri morning, pouring hot water over burial spot cuz thaw is not happening fast enough, still below freezing. 
Banjo just had a shed, refused her worm (concerned, should buy more roaches) but otherwise seems fine, hopping around and if i didnt know better id say she wws looking for her roommate.
I want to bury Uki as respectfully and timely as possible.  It weirded me out that my dad was dead a week before we buried him.  I touched his hand and it was so very cold, (first wake/funeral) then i realized he'd been in a freezer locker most of that time.
Now it occurs to me that  an empty equal box would make a perfect little coffin to fit in freezer.  In a bag.  That way i can wait for tomorrow's rain to get rid of snow.  The pallbearers nearly dropped my dad getting him to grave through the snow.  I mean I won't be dropping her or nearly dropping her, but freezing will hold off decay.
Unless I was donating her organs to a toad in need of a transplant, I couldn't cut her.  I do have rubber gloves tho.  But the sharpest thing I have is a box cutter which seems barbaric and I'm more likely to cut myself open.  
Gonna rinse her again, close her mouth and freeze her til tomorrow.  That way Paul can be there for the burial.  He was there for baby Fiendly's and dug hole for me.  I didn't cry til he was in the ground and we were back in the car. Haven't cried over Uki yet.
With my father's death, I noticed that preparations are a blessing.  Yes, pets and people are different, but they can both be huge losses when they go, and there's always guilt and wondering  "what if.."
Its a part of life that I escaped (for family and friends) for 31 years.  Always wondered how I'd handle it.  Realized that you do not stop loving someone (pet OR person) when they die. I didn't know that for sure.  I do now.  And I'm glad.

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## Gail

If you’re not up to checking her out then by all means don’t do it.  I had to; it wasn’t an option for me.  I used a new single edge razor blade when I did this; one clean cut was all I needed.  But enough on that topic.  And you can’t hold on to the “what if’s”, it’ll drive you crazy.  Just remember the fun you had with her and the sad moments will pass in time.

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## MatthewM1

So sorry to hear about your loss, at least she got to live out the last of her days in a great home 

Sent from my RM-915_nam_usa_228 using Tapatalk

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yoshimi

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## Crystal

I buried her behind house where ground was not frozen solid and before heavy snow.  Did not open box to look at her, just dug hole till I hit rocks, pretty deep, and just wide enough 'for equal box..   wasn't able to dig by baby tree, too frozen, even using very hot water.  So frustrated, nearly cried that she'd be stuck in my freezer like a hot pocket for who knew how long.  It's snowing right now, feels like it hasn't stopped.
But I grabbed the shovel and made damn sure she's be at rest.  My gallbladder needs to come out soon so it hurt but the next morning we had 6 to 8in of snow I think.  So I'm glad she is at peace, in a way.  Used dirt I'd saved from a tank cleaning, plus what I dug up.  The grass will grow back more beautiful than ever.  And she's right under the plug for heat wire with some stones that reminded me of her coloring.  So I'll never forget.
Banjo seems fine,  eating but not a lot, burrowing a lot, but soaking and pooping.

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## Gail

I don't think you'll be able to forget about her even if you tried. Love never dies, but it's intensity does change. I'm sure Banjo is gonna be just fine.

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## Crystal

Banjo is doing fine, so whatever happened to Uki, didn't get to Banjo.  I would like tothink, old age, but I just don't know.
She's eating, but ignoring the big Canadian worms they both used to love.  The only other thing I have for her are mealworms and that suuuuuucks.
Going to have to order more roaches and/or waxworms.  She's also pooping, and soaking, and burrowing but also sitting on or hiding in the hides.   Normal toad stuff. She's got her kingdom back, tho it was never just hers; I bought the super big one when I knew I'd be adopting another.  I'm still sad, but my little baby girl seems to have gotten over the mourning that she never actually did.

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## Gail

That's a toad.......suck it up and move on.  :Embarrassment:   No new pics?

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## Crystal

I only think of it when I find a big respectable poop, but I dont't have time to take poop pics like I used to.  Went to have gallbaldder out the 11th, went fine, but had to stay longer thanks to severe heart failire.  That's what doc said, and then left.  It sounds scary just it's just my left ventricle's not pumping enough and vascular disease.  I'm back to working 7 days a week again, 9-10 hrs a day, just tired some chest pain but ok.
As for my sweet Banjo, she does look mighty cute every day, particularly when she wears her hat of dirt.  So maybe li ahoukd leave camera downstairs.  From sitting to soaking to burrowing, she's adorable.  I should be shaaing that with the worked.

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## Gail

Dang Crystal, sounds like you've hit a rough spot to say the least. Glad to hear you're up and running, but sounds like you should slow it down a bit girl.

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## crazy

Sorry about your loss.  It sucks losing a good toad or frog.

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yoshimi

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## Stolzieren

gorgeous toads you have! I know how it is feeling like you haven't seen a poop in ages haha
I think my toad must be just going in his substrate and I can't find it or something because he acts fine and eats great

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## Crystal

> gorgeous toads you have! I know how it is feeling like you haven't seen a poop in ages haha
> I think my toad must be just going in his substrate and I can't find it or something because he acts fine and eats great


Check abandoned burrows.  Sorry it took me so long to reply.

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## Crystal

Haven't been on with pics in a while but took Banjo out for a hop last week and tho she just sat there most of the time, couldn't help but turn it into a photo shoot.  I was bored, and she was likely overwhelmed.  This is a link (hope it works) to what she did basically the entire time: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...09877494527559
 I copied this from my phone and just now noticed I chose the one with my finger in it.  But Ukulele is growing those.  

Enough with the sad, here's Banjo.  Appreciate these cuz it's making me upload one by one.  Also she's too cute one can't help but appreciate her.  Even when she takes 5min to eat 2 small worms.  Exasperating, but she's contemplative like that.

These were there as a place marker in case she decided to move, then I found it to be a funny photo op. Neither of us were smoking.I dunno what I expected her to do with this.
Where's Banjo?

Stayed out as long as I could, being eaten by bugs, but I can only take so much fresh air and the outdoors.

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## Gail

She's looking good.  I love the one w/the flower pot.  Her expressions looks as if to say "HEY, whachadoin".

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## Crystal

The worms I mentioned were store-bought bait, eaten off a plate in tank the other day.  I got it on video but again, it's 5min long.  She wore out my camera battery contemplating them.  
Among all the other things she didn't do when outside, like move, she didn't eat anything (i wouldn't have let her, if she got that look like she saw something, and since she's so slow about it, i'd have plenty of time to scoop her up.  i'd hope so, at least.).  No outside or free-roaming insects are allowed.  I have a cat for that.  Also a hammer for killing carpenter ants.

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## Crystal

> She's looking good.  I love the one w/the flower pot.  Her expressions looks as if to say "HEY, whachadoin".


That was right before I took her inside.  She was starting to notice the bugs that were eating me.  In this one, she looks like she's ready to fight me..

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## Crystal

She just inhaled three worms, two with multivitamin that doesn't kill them as fast as reptive and one uncoated.  I would"ve filmed it but I barely had time.  Good girl.

I watched a video of Uki the other day and it hurt.  I miss her, she was so active and full of life, so WHAT HAPPENED?  Only had her for 6mnths, what did I do wrong.  I've had Banjo for a year and 9mnths, and they shared everything.  Except for Uki biting my finger.  But that was July and she died in January.  Found her just sitting in resting toad pose, under log hide, with Banjo beside her.  I made sure she was buried in a resting toad pose, and it wasn't easy digging a hole in late Jan, which is why it's so close to the house.  Everywhere else was frozen and a storm was coming.  Anyway, Banjo doesn't look like a murderer, so I am at a loss as to what happened.  

I did feed her a spider that was lurking near their tank.  Uncertain when that was, but even if it wasn't what killed her, no more found food.  Maybe she ate a bit of the moss that I removed because Banjo refused to go near it.  No more moss either.

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## victorsgrace

They're beautiful!  :Big Grin:  My two guys also love Canadian Nightcrawlers. Your girls catch'em good  :Wink:

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## Amy

> She just inhaled three worms, two with multivitamin that doesn't kill them as fast as reptive and one uncoated.  I would"ve filmed it but I barely had time.  Good girl.
> 
> I watched a video of Uki the other day and it hurt.  I miss her, she was so active and full of life, so WHAT HAPPENED?  Only had her for 6mnths, what did I do wrong.  I've had Banjo for a year and 9mnths, and they shared everything.  Except for Uki biting my finger.  But that was July and she died in January.  Found her just sitting in resting toad pose, under log hide, with Banjo beside her.  I made sure she was buried in a resting toad pose, and it wasn't easy digging a hole in late Jan, which is why it's so close to the house.  Everywhere else was frozen and a storm was coming.  Anyway, Banjo doesn't look like a murderer, so I am at a loss as to what happened.  
> 
> I did feed her a spider that was lurking near their tank.  Uncertain when that was, but even if it wasn't what killed her, no more found food.  Maybe she ate a bit of the moss that I removed because Banjo refused to go near it.  No more moss either.


If she was wild caught, you really have no idea how old she was.  It happened with one of my greys too and I was devastated.  But again, he was wild caught, rehomed to me, and for all I know, he was an old man when I got him.  He seemed perfectly fine, one day he buried himself, I dug him up and inspected him, he seemed fine, no idea why he was burying himself.  Next day he buried himself again, I dug him up and he had passed away.  He didn't seem impacted or anything like that, I will never know how or why he died, it makes me sad, but we really have no clue what we're getting when we get wild caught animals. I'm sorry for your loss, do not blame yourself though.  Sometimes the most attentive owners lose a frog with little explanation.

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yoshimi

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## Crystal

> If she was wild caught, you really have no idea how old she was.  It happened with one of my greys too and I was devastated.  But again, he was wild caught, rehomed to me, and for all I know, he was an old man when I got him.  He seemed perfectly fine, one day he buried himself, I dug him up and inspected him, he seemed fine, no idea why he was burying himself.  Next day he buried himself again, I dug him up and he had passed away.  He didn't seem impacted or anything like that, I will never know how or why he died, it makes me sad, but we really have no clue what we're getting when we get wild caught animals. I'm sorry for your loss, do not blame yourself though.  Sometimes the most attentive owners lose a frog with little explanation.


The guy I adopted her from said he'd had her (he thought she was a he) for 3 or 4 years, found in NH, and she didn't grow much.  He fed her wild caught insects and sometimes pet store crickets.  She was a voracious eater, except she refused the last meal offered.  Didn't seem sick or appear any different than usual, tho very unusual that she didn't eat.  I used to have to block her from seeing Banjo's food.  

She had a spot on her chin from start that you can see in pics and it would be clean after a soak but quickly collected dirt that stuck.  No idea what that was about.  And examining her after death, she had a spot on her underside by leg that looked like a grey rip.  She wasn't dead long enough to rot, so maybe she injured herself and got an infection.  I have a pic but not sure I want to post it.  Also extremely bloated, but she was always large and fat.  Made Banjo look so tiny in comparison.  Ok, sorry for this... Something went very wrong here.  :Frown:  And Banjo was sitting beside her.  Eek.
Happier times..
Banjo!

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## Gail

Possible that she was egg bound since it was in the spring of the year.  That's how I lost Rosie.

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## Crystal

I considered that but it was January.  The ground was frozen and a storm was coming, had to bury her up near house, only diggable ground.  It was sort of near dryer vent so when I saw melted snow I'm like' "who's messing with my girl???". But no, she's resting in peace.

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## Gail

Since she didn't hibernate would her internal clock know it was still winter or not. Since it happened so fast it's the only thing I can think of. I know Rosie was fine one day then she was off a little, then dead.

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## Crystal

> Since she didn't hibernate would her internal clock know it was still winter or not. Since it happened so fast it's the only thing I can think of. I know Rosie was fine one day then she was off a little, then dead.


Could be, but that sore looks sinister.  I'm thinking infection and bloat, but the temptation to run downstairs and dig around for banjo is huge right now.  I fluffed up her dirt today after water change, and left light on meaning to come back and feed her but the day got away from me.  Now she's burrowed under flintstone hide. (Just looks like something out of the flintstones to me). A stressed frog is a more vulnerable frog so leaving her be.  She'll let me know when she's hungry.  


The other thing about uki is that she'd sit on log hide and just kind of spread. She had kind of a funny smell too.  Not sure how to explain it.  I should've noticed bloat but she was so active and hungry and normal.  Ugh, what if it was parasites... but banjo didn't get it and she was sitting right beside uki when i found her. So unless there was foul play, I'm still at a loss.  I don't think banjo is quite old enough to be gravid.  But soon.  I think she's two, and Uki was at least 5.  That's the worst part, that if he really did have her that long, 6 months with me and she's gone.  
Banjo is it.  My outside toads have yet to return to garage door.  I must resist temptation to kidnap.  I'll be thrilled if Hans "Bug-Eye" and/or Greta returned.  I'm fairly sure I'd recognize Greta tho she'd be bigger, and 100% sure I'd recognize Hans.  We're leaving the light on for them.

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## Gail

Like Motel 6  :Big Grin: 


> We're leaving the light on for them.

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## Crystal

> Like Motel 6


 Exactly.

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## Crystal

Knew she'd come out, but the way she did it surprises me.  I love when she makes tunnels, but I always thought they burrowed backwards only, and this looks like she crawled forward.  Likely she tunneled out butt first then turned around.
Yesterday's meal...

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## Gail

She's funny, can't decide which end to take first.

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## Crystal

> She's funny, can't decide which end to take first.


I know!  It's so cute, cuz she has no neck (being a frog and all), so while she's trying to decide, I just melt.  She's like that with all food - "which one do I want, this one?  That one?  Oh but look it that one!" <toe wiggle>
It's why I'd have to block Uki's line of sight, as she was much less contemplative.

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## Crystal

> I know!  It's so cute, cuz she has no neck (being a frog and all), so while she's trying to decide, I just melt.  She's like that with all food - "which one do I want, this one?  That one?  Oh but look it that one!" <toe wiggle>
> It's why I'd have to block Uki's line of sight, as she was much less contemplative.


Obviously I love her to pieces, but waiting for her to decide and finish worms can be frustrating.  If she's striking at it, have to wait.  Tonight it took 15 to 20min.  The last one was tiny, and she has more trouble with those.  Should feed those 1st at meal time.
Last night she hopped away from food, then went into shed, but tonight she's staring at me and clamoring against side of tank while I'm rinsing and drying them.  

Still no outside toads (that I've seen), but I think I found a burrow, beside and under stone walkway.  It could've been anything but I'm hoping for frog who knew, this is a safe place to be.

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## Amy

My kids loved the video  :Smile:  I love how toads are such enthusiastic eaters!

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yoshimi

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## Gail

I stopped feeding every day and started every other and they all eat so much better.  And this year we have two toads living in one of the wood piles.  It's been years since we've seen them in the yard.

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## Crystal

> I stopped feeding every day and started every other and they all eat so much better.  And this year we have two toads living in one of the wood piles.  It's been years since we've seen them in the yard.


I was going days without offering food for a while, since basement stays cooler longer.  If I don't see her or just see her head peeking out of dirt, then I don't bother with anything but a water change.  But if she's at front of tank, watching and waiting, I pull out the goodies.  
Also have a small tub outside with rocks and rain water that I check for tadpoles but nuthin.  Boyfriend might object to kiddie pool in backyard.  There were teeny baby toads last year.  We live semi-near a pond but not so near to justify dragonflies clustering around my dragonfly solar thingie (really strange but awesome).  Therefore not so near that I can say for sure that's where they came from.  
Has been rainy lately (raining right now, so much for fireworks) so I expect to encounter some tree frogs and/or toads and toadlets soon.  We tread very carefully ( I do, at least).

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## Crystal

Last night Paul came home bangin on door, not cuz he was locked out, but because there was this little guy on a brick.  He thought it could be one of mine from last year.  Very sweet but this is a young fella.  Or gal.
  Was raining, but I went back put with small worm in hand and didn't see him or anyone else.  So Banjo got a snack.

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## Crystal

I should try to change the title of this thread, but Uki lives on thru pics, and Banjo lives on, being alive and all.  The last pic is my fave.  Love to see those eyes peeping out.  

I would get rid of that log hide if she didn't like it so much.  Bad history and when she's under there I lift it up to make sure she's ok.  The point of a hide disappears when something giant is un-hiding you to make sure you're breathing.  Anywhere else, and she has other hides, I don't bother her.  Moving the log did nothing to dispel the Oh No feeling.  She's a good girl tho and I can usually see her through port hole.

The only frog story I have is from end of Aug, beginning of Sept before we took a brief trip home to NJ.  Paul ran the generator and snowblower and a toad got into garage.  I was trying to fill pills and he yelled for me, thinking again that it was one of last year's toads.  He became exasperated cuz I couldn't come running tho running and yelling was scaring the poor thing.   I didn't have a toad whistle, so put a batt powered light on floor and shut overheads.  It worked, but once again he yelled for me, so it was hiding by the time I got out.  Thankfully he left and I sat in the dark with light on floor and clean hands and hop hop hop, out came the little guy.  Caught it, gave it bath in water from Banjo's jug of treated water, hoping to get garage chemicals, dust and dirt off, then let it go in our backyard stick pile.  Didn't know what else to do and seemed like safest place with delicious crickets.  My annoyance with Paul ended when he bought Banjo worms while he was out.  
It occurred to me that it might not be the only interloper so I sat later with light on floor but no one made an appearance.

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## Gail

Banjo is looking good.

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## Crystal

> Banjo is looking good.


Thanks.  She's gonna be a hottie when she matures.  She's 2, and we'll be celebrating our two year anniversary next week.  I expect many boy toads to be lined up and singing/calling on her from the yard all too soon.  They grow up so fast.

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## Gail

Well I know of one Southern gentleman that will be 3 this coming spring. ;o)  Morph is my only toad.  I released all the other last month since all they did was burrow down.  Morph is usually always up either sitting on the cork bark throne or slightly tucked up under a piece of cork bark by the feeding bowl awaiting dinner to pass by.

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## Crystal

Happy New Year!

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MatthewM1

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## Crystal

Banjo died last night around 11pm.  She'd decided to burrow through most of March, which she'd never done before, and when she came up, didn't want to eat.  I waited, hoping it'd pass.  Offered food, but she'd just walk away.  The night before last, she was walking funny so I knew I had to do something.  I force-fed her a calcium dipped piece of worm, using a card and her wrapped like a burrito in damp paper towel.  She didn't fight me too much.  I did it again the next morning, using vitamin supplement and she let me, but she ws walking better.  All day yesterday, liquid was coming from her nose.  It was getting into her eyes and attracting dirt so she had the membranes up.  I dabbed at her nostrils with a tissue, tried to help her drain, and though she looked bad, she was still breathing.  My bf brought home fresh worms and I should have waited to try to feed her again, but I messed up, and did it anyway.  This time she fought me, and spit first half out.  That was where I went wrong.  I should have seen that she didn't want it, had the strength to fight, and let well enough alone until today.  The stress of me trying again must have killed her because she died in my hands.  Her eyes went clear and she looked right at me.  As her last act, she excreted gooey white poison.  She must have been terrified.  
The worst is that she doesn't look dead.  She looks so much better than she did when she was sick.  The pics are on my phone.  She looks terrible hunched over with muddy eyes (I don't think she could see), and a wet looking face.  But after death, those eyes are still open and clear - STILL - and she appears to be holding herself up.  Just not breathing.  I'm not sure exactly what happened.  It could have been shock, she may have choked, or maybe the fluid went back up her nose and she drowned in it.  
I am so sorry.  She might be here today if I hadn't thought I knew what I didn't.  Instead, going to bury her in backyard in a few.

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## gut

I'm so sorry for your loss Crystal, you did everything you could.

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yoshimi

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## Crystal

I didn't realize what a huge part of every day she was.  I'm still in "go check on her" mode.  For someone who made no noise, the house somehow seems more quiet without her.  The tank looks dark and empty, though there's still some dirt in it and there never was a light.  Not the kind that you plug in.  There's a palpable sense of loss.  I buried her yesterday and planted flower seeds on her grave and over where Uki is.  They're old seeds and I'm not sure if they'll grow, but they were all I had.
If I had a do-over, I would have left well enough alone and skipped that last feeding attempt of the new worms.  Up until that point, I was doing what I had to and my force-feeding was necessary and technique was good.  In my mind, I was thinking, fresher = better, but she'd already had some food and vitamins in her belly; she didn't need it.  I would have then had the time to get help of a vet for that runny nose.  I'd planned to move her out of that tank into something smaller and away from whatever had made her sick.  That should have been my task Sat night, rather than another feeding.  She was only three, so she may have pulled through.  I don't get a do-over and neither does she.  So I type this so that if someone else reads it, maybe they won't make my mistakes.  American toads are hearty compared to other frogs, but still so very fragile, and to have one die in your hands because of something you didn't absolutely need to do, is heart-breaking.  
I miss her SO much.

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## likelittledinosaurs

I just joined and I read the comments.  It looks like Uki had a good life.  Feel better.

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yoshimi

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