# General Topics > Vivarium, Terrarium & Enclosure Discussion >  Madagascar Mantella Paludarium

## bill

a few months back, i saw my first Mantellas in real life. they were Mantella Betsileo. i immediately fell in love with those little creatures. so i started researching mantellas and the different species. i am narrowed down to M. Betsileo and M. Baroni. regardless of which i choose, they have essentially the same care needs and are from the same region of Madagascar, so this tank will serve as a home for either equally well. or at least that is the way i understand it. if i am wrong, please let me know, it will make the decision so much easier then...lol 

this tank was originally slated to be a fbt tank, but i since decided it would make an even cooler paludarium. i was stuck for inspiration on my new red eye tank when i had a dream at work and saw this tank and all it's possibilities. that night i came home and started designing. the whole thing is centered around a stump that has seen duty in several of my fish tanks, but i never thought of using it in the arrangement it will be in here. 
since i built my 125, i get a lot of "how did you do this/that/the other thing" questions from people on a couple forums i belong to, so i decided to do this as a semi tutorial. now, i freely admit, i am no Don, and his vivs are stunning (Kudos Don!), but i figured this might answer a few questions, and show some of my little tips and tricks. so, i like to think of this thread and not so much a how-to-build-a-paludarium, but as a how-to-build-THIS-paludarium.

i apologize that my first few steps are not photo documented, remember, i started this a few days ago, so here we go:
first i set my log in place, determined what height i wanted my water line to be and what height i wanted my shallow section of water to be, then started cutting pipe and egg crate. next, i started planning where my water feature was going to go. this shifted positions numerous times. until a brainstorm finally put it into the position it is in now, back left. the structural until for the water feature will be my "maintenance tunnel". a piece of 4" pvc pipe i cut in half with an air saw at work, then i heated it with a torch while standing on it to get the expansion i wanted out of it. this where i will be able to access all the life support for the tank except for the ultrasonic fogger. it will go in that plastic cup in the back. (more on that in another update). next i started playing with various rock and wood arrangements. i'll post all the pics of the 2 arrangements i had liked, but ended up with the last one.


yeah, i know, i forgot to take the flash off.....lol next i removed all the egg crate, supports, wood and what not and put them into a parts bin. i use these big sweater boxes all the time for stuff. they are invaluable. i believe they are essential if you have more than one build going at a time. i always do. i also love them for planting. nothing like having every plant you need all in one tray. they are also great for drying coco fiber naturally instead of stinking up the house by putting it in the over. a couple days in the sun and 2 blocks are dry. i love these things!!


now here's one of those tips/tricks. i left the wood in so i could outline it. i need to block off the aquatic section from the water reserve (the area under the false bottom) so no fish or shrimp can get back there. this will give me the areas i need to work around at a later date. and don't worry, the marker rubs off very easily with a paper towel and some water. i write on all my tanks in magic marker. i make sketches on them, i measure on them. i even write species names on them to help me memorize different species of plants and such. this is what it looks like bare now


i am trying to keep the cost on this a bit lower than my 125, so i decided to skip gluing egg crate to the glass. it's not a necessary step, i only do it so the great stuff i am going to apply will have a little extra something to adhere to. on this build i chose to just silicone the sides of the tank. so i took some measurements, drew some lines and started siliconing. the answer to what silicone did i use? this one:


and that brings us to the end of tonight's stuff, tank is all siliconed up and curing. i will give this 48 hours to cure. oh, i think it is worth noting that i cleaned the sides of the tank with isopropyl alcohol in the areas prior to laying down the silicone. this is my own step and i do it to guarantee there is no moisture or dirt on the glass so the silicone will adhere properly. and here it is, all siliconed up:

another note, the reason the silicone does not go all the way to the bottom of the tank is because it is only needed to give the foam something to attach to. the 2 sides and back are going to be painted with a black waterproofing material that i use at work. i use this stuff when i run out of black contact paper to black out my fish tanks and vivs.

enjoy, and as always, question/comments/criticisms/suggestions are always welcome. remember, the only dumb question is this one : "what is the definition of dumb?"  :Wink:

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## Pluke

Always like a detailed build thread, keep it up man. Can't wait to see the finished product.  :Smile:

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## Ribbity

Really excited to see how this turns out, get picture documentation!  :Big Grin: 
keep us posted!!

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## Adam R

heck yeah, liking it already

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## bill

thanks guys. i am glad you like it so far. it looks so much better inside my head.....

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## Heather

Looking good....can't wait to see more!

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## bill

ok, so i got to do a bit of work tonight. my main concentration was "sealing" the aquatic section from the false bottom. this was a very important step for this build because it will be housing shrimp and fish, and i cannot allow them to get underneath the false bottom and possibly die there, polluting my water. so what i did was cut pieces of egg crate to appropriate lengths and heights, and then i wrapped them in weed blocking sheet, then tied it up with brown monofilament fishing line. yes, i could have used fiberglass screening, but baby shrimp can get through that. and since i have like a grillion feet of this stuff and no mosquito netting, i went with it. we'll see if that is a mistake when i get to the water testing portion of the build. here's the left side land mass :
1113_191819.jpg[/IMG]
i took a bunch of pics from the top so that you can see the different diameters of pipe i am using for my supports. because the mass is 5" to it's bottom, and space is limited because i have to install a filter and heater under there, i combined 3" pipe and 2" pipe on the land section. 2" pipe for the shallow water section. height was the factor there. it's only 3"to the bottom of the shallow section, so 2" pipe will suffice. the right side also uses 2" and 3" pipe.

in the next couple pics, you can see my filter, a fluval nano, which has served me well for years in shrimp tanks, in the top left corner.


i also worked on my fogger setup. i plan on using an ultrasonic fogger. not so much for adding humidity to the tank. the aquatic section will handle that task very well, but for the cool effect it should give on that cool stump!! i mean come on, that stump just is begging to be planted and fogged out....lol now, the thing i have learned and hated about ultrasonic foggers is the fact that they shoot water EVERYWHERE!! or so it seems. it actually does shoot a small fountain up about 2-5". so the difficult thing with them is concealing it. after about 6 hours of testing the fogger in all sorts of containers, and trying to control the fountain, i remembered someone gave me a few of these containers a while back. don't ask me what they are used for, but for some reason i can't help but think it was racquetball balls. so anyway, i played with it for about an hour, and came up with this contraption:


i didn't cut the bottom off, because i needed the height right where it is. actually, i wish it was an inch longer, then it wouldn't have to sit on a rock i siliconed to the bottom of the tank. but that's fine, there will be rocks covering it from view anyway. i drilled some holes into the sides so that it can get a fresh water supply and not go stagnant, and notched the top portion to direct the fog. there is also a lid for this as well. it hides the fountain and also directs the fog. this also needed to be accessible in case i need to replace the fogger's membrane. here it is covered up:

this is what it looks like with it before the wood was replaced, and after:



and don't worry, that moss is getting scraped off and the stump baked (again!) before it goes in for real.  :Smile:  that's it for tonight, i think it took me longer to type this than to do the actual work...LOL

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## flynmnky

Great thread! I was wondering how to block off the under land portions of the false bottom for critters. Did you totally wrap those sections, or just cover the submerged walls?  What kind of weed blocker did you use and are you concerned about it clogging/stopping water flow under those areas??

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## bill

> Great thread! I was wondering how to block off the under land portions of the false bottom for critters. Did you totally wrap those sections, or just cover the submerged walls?  What kind of weed blocker did you use and are you concerned about it clogging/stopping water flow under those areas??


i only wrapped the submerged walls.  not sure what brand weed blocker i have. i bought it at home depot for like, $8 i think. it's a roll of like, a million yards....lol i actually would have preferred to use mosquito netting. but i didn't feel like trying to find it around here, and i had this stuff lying around. i am actually a bit concerned about stopping the flow, which is i why i said that i'll find out if it was a mistake when i do water testing this weekend. if it does stop flow, then i will probably double up some fiberglass screen to keep the juvenile shrimp out. and the fish i plan on putting in there breed very readily, so i don't want the fry to get behind it either, so i can remove them.

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## RustyVegetables97

Looks great.  :Big Applause:

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## bill

> Looks great.


thanks  :Smile:  but there's still plenty of time for me to muck it all up......LOL

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## FriedrichsFrogs

_looks good so far, a lot of that stuff still seems to go over my head but i think im getting a bettr understanding of it the more setups you build...which means im bound to master it in no time lol. good luk!_

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## NatureLady

I am such a visual person and this thread really helps me!!!! Thanks so much. Can't wait to see the finished product!!!!

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## bill

Thanks guys.  :Smile:  jay, it will all start to make sense as it comes together. Remember, i am building this out of the vision in my defective brain....lol i normally sketch up some sort of diagram before i start so i can determine base structures and behind the scenes stuff, but i decided to wing this one. I don't recommend building one that way. And if you do, take a lot of pics for reference.

Amanda, stay tuned, because this weekend i start the terrestrial water feature and do the water testing. Sunday's update should have plenty of pics for you to follow along with. I'm going to try to take step by step pics of the water feature construction, since that is what i get asked about  most often.  :Smile:

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## flynmnky

Hey chipmunk! Trying really hard to wait til this weekend but I just can't stand wondering anymore! Do you power your falls with your filter or run a dedicated power head?

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## bill

Gonna run this one off of the filter. Which of course opens up the possibility or getting fish/shrimp nasties above ground where the frogs are. And while i believe they should be good, but just in case, i'm going to have a bit of lava rock in the aquatic section for good bacteria to grow on. Add that to the extra filtration i get from the plants and that water will be cleaner that what comes out of my tap......lol

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## flynmnky

I'd imagine with some good plants and biological filter sites, ammonia/nitrates should be well in check. Do you run carbon? Do tannins turn your water brown? Can't wait to see what you do this weekend...  Oh yeah! And how tall is your waterfall gonna be? (It is a fall, right?)
Am I driving you nuts with all my questions??  Lol! Bwaaaah!

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## bill

Nope, no carbon. I actually run lava rock in all my filters, except this one, it's too small. Carbon would eventually clog up and wear out over time and i am trying to keep maintenance down. 
I was going to do an actual water fall, but i'm thinking the splashing may eventually drive me nuts.....lol the coco fiber with create the blackwater effect,  which i love. The leaf litter will also add to that. I'm hoping to have nice, clear, tea colored water  :Smile:  

I don't mind the questions at all. It's why i created the thread as a sort of tutorial.

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## bill

Elizabeth, didn't i see you mention somewhere that you grow or grew orchids?

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## flynmnky

Yes, but far from any kind of expert. I dabble. :-)

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## bill

Got any good sources for epiphytic orchids and/or jewel orchids?

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## flynmnky

I really don't. :-( most of mine a grocery/hardware store varieties. Ive gotten a few by mail and from some local plants stores. I love phalaenopsis in every color, so they are kind if a no-brainer... (except for tacky blue-I don't think people should dye orchids).  But I should mail you one just for answering all my crazy questions! Can't tell you how much you have helped me. :-)

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## bill

I've grown them as well. My mother is a florist, so i get them cheapie cheap  :Smile:  and i agree. Dyeing flowers is fine if they are fresh cut and the color you need is not available in nature. But dyeing live plants is just wrong.

And sorry to make you wait until the weekend for another update, but i am setting up a 30g shrimp tank and i need to get it planted before my plants croak.

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## flynmnky

Hahaha! It's fine! Just pretty much constantly brainstorming and sketching on what I want to do, hoping to have mine running by Christmas so really planning hard. Nothing like research ahead of time to save you from big mistakes later! Every question begs more questions so maybe just a small temp tank by then so I can nail down the details. I'm getting close.  Starting to work on plants I want and care reqs but getting close to a hijack so I think I'll stop whole I'm ahead! :-)

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## bill

It's really not a problem and don't consider it hijacking. That's the whole reason i wrote the journal the way i did, to leave it open for questions. If anyone doesn't understand how i do what i do or why i did it, please ask. If i can help you make a better home for your frogs, then i have absolutely no problem answering questions. It's what the forum is for after all  :Smile:

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## flynmnky

Yeah I know but was getting ready to take this thing into a whole 'nother direction about the plants I want, not what you want! :-)

If my questions were relevant to YOUR build, I'd ask em, especially since I'm prepared to pay in plants for the information. ;-) Lol!

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## bill

You can always pm me questions unrelated to the thread.  :Smile:

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## flynmnky

You might be sorry you said that...  Lol!

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## bill

I already am......lol

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## bill

ok, so it was water testing day here at the chipmunk compound. interesting fact, human/chipmunk hybrids don't float....lol anyway, the goal of the night was to test the fogger set up, and figure out water features. i believe i did. before i get to the pics, i want to mention something i think is kind of important since this is a journal/tutorial. when you are building anything involving a water feature, a paludarium especially, you really need to do water testing. test how your water flows. sometimes, just because your eye sees it one way, does not mean that the water will follow your chosen path. in this case i had a bunch of stuff to figure out, first and foremost was to make sure i got good flow from side to side. next was the fogger and last was the filter and water feature. that's why i needed to fill it up to it's projected level and test full tilt. water testing showed me major obstacle in my 125. i found out that building land with that much foam on it out of the tank without siliconing it down, would be bad. those suckers just floated right up. now, imagine had i gotten it all planed, went to fill it up and never water tested it. disaster, without a doubt. that being said, here's what i did tonight:

the first thing i said i needed to test was the flow from side to side. so i watched my water levels carefully. there was no difference between the sides. there's #1 down. i filled it from the aquatic side and watched my water level under the false bottom. i moved the hose after i took the pic so it would only fill the aquatic section.


btw....i LOVE that hose attachment i made  :Smile: 

next came the fogger. unfortunately, i didn't take pics of the failed attempts at tonight's work. didn't dawn on me to take that detailed of a record, but thinking back, i probably should have so you could have seen the process of what it was to what it became. oh, well. maybe on the next build  :Smile:  keep in mind now, that the fogger is not as strong as it should be once it gets a bit more crowded in there. but i think you'll get the idea, and i think you'll see why i chose to use it.

i just like the swirl in the fog on that last one  :Smile:  also, if you look at the lid of the fogger, you can see how much water is on the underside. i wasn't kidding when i said that those foggers shoot out a fountain.

last was the water feature. putting it in the corner was a major fail. i just didn't get the effect i wanted from the branch i had screwed to the pipe. also, the filter is ridiculously strong, even with the flow set at it's lowest. i was not expecting that. a lot of flow, yes, but not THAT much. i may still play with it a bit tomorrow. i have a thought on this. we'll see how motivated i can get tomorrow....lol so i moved my water feature position to front and center (almost), cut a new hole in another pipe, screwed my branch on, and i like it much better. i think it will be even better once i figure out the flow issue. after i got that worked out i, the architect came over and said "Hey! since we're gonna run that hose over there anyway, why don't we make that section a drip wall?" the contractor cursed him out under his breath, and then calmly said "that's one bang up idea!" so i cut a few holes in my filter hose and i now had the makings of a proper drip wall, see?


that was my only reason for saving that stupid little branch tip. i wanted my water feature to supply water to plants at the top of the stump. now i know i can grow plants all the way up. i'm thinking i am going to put tree fern panels at the drip wall, and maybe doing a clay background for the other half of the background and great stuff for the sides. anyone have any experience with the clay background?

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## bill

got my allowance from my boss yesterday and went shopping today at the hydroponics store!! i could have spent my entire allowance there! lookie at what i bought:



got me a pump, some plant pots and a buttload of fittings to make myself a rain system. maybe that will be a diy project thread....diy misting system. maybe i should see if it works first. hopefully an update will soon follow.

Note: i did not purchase the cup o' joe at the hydroponics store. that was at home away from home #2...lol

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## IrishRonin

Bill this really is looking good can't wait to see it finished, I love paludariums. Ok quick question whats "old planted tank guy"?

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deranged chipmunk

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## bill

i've been doing planted aquariums for quite a long time and i feel a LOT older than i am.....lol

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## bill

and thank you  :Smile:  how is that stock of empty tanks working out for ya? that would be christmas in july for me....lol

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## Adam R

"the boss" as in "the wife"??..

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## IrishRonin

I see, there is a website called stotmthecastle.com and the guy who does it calls himself the planted tank guy. Anyway I have actually used 95% of them, in down to just 3 10g and the screen ones. I NEED MORE  :Wink:

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## bill

> "the boss" as in "the wife"??..


nope. i mean the actual boss at work. i tell him what he pays me, it's more like my allowance when i was a kid....LOL

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## bill

> I see, there is a website called stotmthecastle.com and the guy who does it calls himself the planted tank guy. Anyway I have actually used 95% of them, in down to just 3 10g and the screen ones. I NEED MORE


aha....gotcha. yeah, that's not me....lol but here is one of my planted tanks. please forgive the pic, it just got a trim today :


and no matter how many we have, we can never have enough tanks. even if it is our job......LOL

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## bill

ok, update time!! after i did the water testing, reconfigured a few things, and designed a rain system (more on that one in a later post), i got my equipment secured, terrestrial areas wrapped in weekblocker and got ready for some foam:



yes, that is a reflection of me and my 75g planted in the one pic. hey, i never claimed to be a photographer....lol

after that, i started foaming. then added a few pots for plants, and foamed some more. i will let this cure over night and then i should be able to complete the foaming tomorrow night. the easy part is done for mow.



sorry there's not more. building a rain system was a bit more tricky than i expected, and still has to be completed, that will be in the next few updates.

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## Pluke

Man that planted tank is awesome.. how many vivariums/planted tanks/paludariums do you have?

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## bill

up and running, i have my 125 white's paludarium, a 20L paludarium i built for a rubber banded frog i gave to my son, a 75g planted tank, a 30g planted tank i just set up for crystal red shrimp, and my wife's (i do everything to it, she just chose the fish..lol) 55g planted tank. sitting around waiting to be built, besides this one are, a 29g bowfront that will be for red eyes, a 60g custom tank that is slated for d. leucomelas, a 15g that is going to be an aquatic life paludarium, and about 4 or 5 10g tanks that i have leftover from shrimp breeding. at one time, i think i had roughly 20 tanks going, give or take. oh, and the wife is buying me an 18" cube exoterra for xmas....LOL

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## pinkfeet

Mannnnnnn loving this thread! Can't wait to see how it all turns out.

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deranged chipmunk

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## bill

oh yeah, forgot my daughter's 20L (stolen from me) red ear slider tank.

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## bill

> Mannnnnnn loving this thread! Can't wait to see how it all turns out.


thanks Frogz. it's coming close to the end and i haven't even ordered terrestrial plants yet. but i do have 99% of the aquatics i plan on using, so at least i can get those going while decide what orchids i want in it.

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## Sherry

Your tanks are awesome! I want one! :Love Heart:

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deranged chipmunk

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## bill

Thanks sherry  :Smile:  no problem, you can any tank you want. Just drive to philly, a butt load of cash and we'll load one up for ya....lol or i can just put them on webcam....lol

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## bill

ok, last "contruction" update. i really did not feel like doing anything tonight, but it's amazing how motivated i can get with a ridiculous amount of coffee and some techno music....lol so, if i recall, i promised i would show my diy rain system tonight and here it is:

i am very fortunate in the fact that i live about 10 miles from a hydroponics store. if you have never been to one, let me tell you, it's like wonderland in there! all the wonderful gadgets and soils. oh the soils! i should have taken the blue pill, then i would still have money in my pocket (or was it the red pill, i forget). anyway, i was browsing their irrigation systems, and after a lengthy discussion with the sales associate, i walked out of there with enough to build my own. now, unlike a misting system, this system works off of low pressure, roughly 0.5 psi (according to the rep), so that means i don't need a mega dollar pump to run it. in fact, it runs off of a mid sized pond fountain pump, which i picked up at my favorite LFS. (LFS is short for Local Fish Shop/Store in case anyone was wondering) that is why i am calling this a diy rain system, not a mister. the spray is not as fine, and this is more for watering my plants than to introduce humidity. also, it allows me to create seasons within my tank much easier. the pump cost me $27.00 all the fittings in the pic and the pots cost me $30.00. now, keep in mind i bought way more than i needed because i didn't want to keep making parts runs. add to that $5.00 (i think) for 10ft 1/2" i.d. tubing from home depot and we're done. so for less than $50, i will never have to worry about watering my plants. provided it works of course. i didn't set this up completely before i broke it all down and foamed, but i had the basics working, so it might take some tweaking. on with the pics:

oh, and this is the hydro store i use. yes, they ship  :Smile:  Garden Indoors | Hydroponics, Grow Lights and More!

hopefully, you guys noticed those big, heavy lengths of 1/2" i.d. vinyl tubing running across the top of the tank, because that is my water supply line. there are 2, one across the back, the second across the top of the left side. they were joined together using a 1/2" y-adapter, which then runs down to the pump. forgot to take pics of that. then you take this handy dandy installation tool, and poke a hole in the hose:


then the fitting just pushes into the hole and seals itself:


next, i attached 1/4" vinyl tubing to the fittings.  i have a lot of this for my fish tanks (for pressurized co2), but it goes for $4.00 at home depot. these are going to be covered in silicone and coco fiber and draped in strategic locations. and the ends of the "vines" will be these fittings. these are for a 360 degree spray. they also make them in a 180 degree as well. i am going to pick up some 180 ones, because i am an idiot and didn't buy any. here are the "nozzles"


and here is my jumbled mess of "vines"


then i added a couple more branches. adjusted the pot in the top left corner (it was too high) and did my final foam job:


Rain system be gone!!  :Smile:  the vines will be the very last thing i do before i fill the tank. i'm still working out how to attach them to the branches, yet make them removable for maintenance. i'm highly considering small dots of velcro for that job. i am welcome to other ideas.  :Smile:  i will give all this a couple days to cure, then i will trim off any excess foam at the top, and start covering. guess i will next be updating wednesday or friday. i might even cough up the secrets to the titebond method  :Smile:  stay tuned

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## pinkfeet

Looking awesome. Hydro stores r awesome. An way better in price. Being in Cali we have tons witch is so nice. Hydro balls r super expensive so I bought a huge bag there for only $30 thank heaven for hydro stores.  :Smile:  keep up the good work on the tank.

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## bill

> Looking awesome. Hydro stores r awesome. An way better in price. Being in Cali we have tons witch is so nice. Hydro balls r super expensive so I bought a huge bag there for only $30 thank heaven for hydro stores.  keep up the good work on the tank.


you guys have a plethora of hydro stores so the drug dealers can grow the real primo $hlt!! LOL but yes, they are awesome!! i pay less than $3/brick for coco fiber and nobody else around carries bat guano and dried kelp meal. and their soils are just awesome. i grow almost all of my plants, terrestrial and aquatic with them. the root feeders in my planted tanks LOVE the soils.

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## pinkfeet

Hahaha don't even go there. This I know. It is Cali  :Smile:  hehehe but I don't visit my local one for those reason but having so many is very nice  :Smile: ) great for my green house too lol

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## bill

don't feel bad, i hear there are more stores in miami than the entire state of Cali.....LOL i'm just happy that not a lot of people know about them, that way it's never crowded or out of stock when i go.  :Smile:

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## pinkfeet

Hay no worries here I just can't believe Colorado legalized it befor us!! But hydro stores r hidden gold minds.  :Wink:  my local one is pretty busy or at least the one I like the best is. But the guys there r so helpful an knowledgeable.,. Haha really Miami has that many? Funny.. Iv Hurd or least o thought I had hurd the weather over there was not that great for growing. Ok ok so off topic lol.

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## NatureLady

I think that you forgot the 180 heads so that way YOU COULD go back! LOL. Looks great and don't hide your secrets...this is suppose to be your 'tell all'!!!

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## bill

Aha! There's my stalker.....lol don't worry Amanda,  step by step of the titebond method may be as early as tomorrow evening. All depends on how much food i can get prepped for thursday. Yes, I cook thanksgiving dinner in my household. I'm the better cook....lol

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## bill

Oh, and while you are right that i may have forgotten subconsciously,  except i was planning a trip there this weekend to pick up some worm casting and bat guano for a carnivorous plant terrarium i am building.  :Smile:

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## NatureLady

> Aha! There's my stalker.....lol don't worry Amanda,  step by step of the titebond method may be as early as tomorrow evening. All depends on how much food i can get prepped for thursday. Yes, I cook thanksgiving dinner in my household. I'm the better cook....lol


Actually studies have shown that you are not out of the norm being the better cook! Men are taking that role in households more and more these days. I personally keep the title at my house, but I am the youngest (by ten years) of three kids and my oldest brother and his wife are our Turkey/Ham cookers!!! Yum  :Big Grin: 

Awesome on the titebond method!!!!!! I attempted a gorilla glue method because I never bought into the silicone and coco fiber way. Then I had two wtf's die for unknown reasons and tore it apart to bleach the tank and save my only survivor. Now I just have bare and boring walls that are FINALLY getting covered with photos vines. 

I have a build in the wings that is just ready for something to cover the GS. I am proud of it, but it has sit for months now because of our move and me being stubborn. When I get that one finished I plan to revamp the animal room and remodel my wtf tank. 

And don't worry...I stalk from the middle of the US...you are safe for now! HA  :Embarrassment:

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## bill

glad to hear you saved one of your little guys. That gorilla glue method sucks. Gorilla glue is nasty and messy. I ;hate working with it, bjt it is a necessary evil sometimes. You are going to be surprised at just how simple the titebond method is. 
And lime i told my bed bully, no worries about anyone stalking me, i'm uglier than a horny wildebeast on LSD.....lol

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## NatureLady

HAHAHAHAHAHA! I only stalk by reading posts. I am not a mega poster here. I like to read and dream of the things I could do.

I seriously can stop thinking how a horny wildebeast on LSD would look....this thought will keep me giggling all day. BUT, I am on my last day of 6 at work before 6 days off, so I NEED A GIGGLELY THOUGHT TO GET ME BY!

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## bill

Well, i am glad i could put a smile on your face. I know how the 6 day stretch is. I work 6/week. But i never get 6 days off.....lol

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## IrishRonin

I like your "vines", great idea. I also feel the 6 day stretch but like you I never get 6 off, it's probably for the best all my animals mightily die knowing my luck. Funny enough my mom asked me to help with the cooking for turkey day, I think guys are just better cooks. Keep up the good work and keep us posted

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## bill

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls of all ages!! gather 'round, the chipmunk is here to show you the "titebond method". no, it isn't a new form of birth control. remember abstinence is best, that what the bed bully tells me every night!!LOL no, this here is the awesome way to cover up all that nasty looking yellow great stuff. now, i have told you that this is easy, and it is, follow along as i titebond half my tank. 

step one, purchase some titebond III wood glue. you can get it at home depot or lowes. it goes for about $6 for a 16 oz bottle. Lowes has it for $26/gallon. i have never seen the gallon jug at H.D. this is what you are buying 


and YES it MUST be that exact brand. titebond I and II are NOT waterproof. next, get yourself a container, deli cups work nice and are cheap and disposable


add some glue


add some substrate. in this case, i am going with sphagnum peat moss  because i am going for that dark, mysterious look of the dark continent


mix and add more glue if necessary. when you are finished, it should look something like this. like runny, nasty oatmeal


next step, paint it on. i like to use acid (flux) brushes. you can get them in the plumbing section of most hardware store as well as harbor freight tools, if you have one nearby. btw, harbor freight is an awesome place to get nitrile gloves. they have good quality ones and they are less expensive than most other places. i used to get my gloves for tattooing there. 

here is the tank after painting on the titebond:



now, i just need to sit back and let it dry for about a week. yes a week. but, here's the kicker. there is no stinky smell from titebond. if you get it on your hands, it is easy to get off and here is the best part, all the bare spots you see, will be covered up by a second coat. yes, you can do this as many times as you like, unlike silicone, which is one and done. oh and another thing, i put nice, moist peat moss in the mix. no need to let it dry out like you need to do with coco fiber and silicone.

hope that explains it well enough. yes, it takes longer, but i truly believe it is worth it in the end.

----------

MatthewM1, Strider18

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## NatureLady

> I like your "vines", great idea. I also feel the 6 day stretch but like you I never get 6 off, it's probably for the best all my animals mightily die knowing my luck. Funny enough my mom asked me to help with the cooking for turkey day, I think guys are just better cooks. Keep up the good work and keep us posted


I get off for 6 days but I live 3 minutes from work and will be going back to receive a FedEx shipment tomorrow and to feed all of the animals there at least every other day. I work all summer, no vacations, every major awesome holiday...I am working looking out the big windows at all of the families having a blast on the lake...me just working. It evens out, kinda.

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## NatureLady

> like runny, nasty oatmeal


Gross, just gross, but good visual!





> i used to get my gloves for tattooing there.


You do tat's and make amazing tanks....hmmmm...lol  :Smile:

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## bill

I don't anymore. A couple decades of wrenching has taken it's toll on my hands. Haven't been able to hold the gun for long for a few years now.  :Frown:

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## bill

i was covering more of the tank tonight and i realized i forgot to mention a couple things about titebond. even though i showed it being done in it's display position, you should have whatever surface you are covering horizontal. then let that dry for a day, turn the tank and so on. then repeat the process as necessary. also, work in small batches. the glue will start to thicken as you work, if it does, just add some more glue to thin it out. i know this is a no-brainer, but i guarantee that if i didn't mention it, someone will eventually ask why i didn't warn about that. and wait until you see the second coat, i have a couple tricks up my sleeve for that  :Smile:

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## bill

Just a written update, for now. Somehow, i found the energy last night to finish covering the back wall of this beast.  I know, i said to wait a week between coats, but just like a pet store or my parents, this is a case of do as i say, not as i do.....lol i will post up some pics tonight when i get home from work and after i run a shop vac through the tank before i flip it to do the sides. I'm kind of fast tracking this because i want to get the aquatic section planted next weekend. There are a few plants in my 75 that are going to find themselves in this tank and next week will coincide with a trim on the 75. The less i need to disturb in any tank, the better.

I still need to pick up my aquatic substrate, grab a lid for this tank, build a stand and get bulbs for my light fixture.

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## Heather

Fabulous instructions D.C.! See, now that I have waited to build mine, I'll have all of your awesome tips to make mine perfect  :Big Grin: . 

Looking great! I'll be watching for updates.

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## bill

Tanks Heather!!  After all the little tid bits i threw in here, you're tank should be killer!! My next 2 builds are going to cover alternate background techniques, so you may want to wait a few months to start.....lol

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## bill

ok, some quickie pics.....

after one coat of titebond and peat moss. the peat moss clumped nicely to give it a nice, dark background:


after a second coat consisting of titebond and coco fiber, then i sprinkled a mix i previously made on it while the glue was still wet, this is it after drying 1 day:


the left side is now finished, i'll do the right tomorrow and then let it cure for a week. then hopefully, next weekend, we move onto the vines, flood the tank, and test. if all is good, we start planting the aquatic section. i still do not have any terrestrial plants for this tank.....lol

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## Pluke

When you say flood the tank, do you mean you literally fill it to the top? Even after putting all the stuff in it?

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## bill

No. Sorry, i slip in and out of fish tank lingo.....lol no, i just mean that i will fill it to the desired level. That's a big maybe at this point. I may do what's called a dry start on some of the aquatics so that they can root and attach themselves to objects naturally so i don't have to attach them by mechanical means.

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## Heather

I'm liking the titebond method. Pretty neat. 

Ah yes, I'll be taking notes  :Wink: .

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## bill

while i'm sitting here waiting for the glue to dry, i figured i would post some pics from underneath the tank, since it is the last time it will be visible for what i hope to be a very long time.

in these pics, you can see where my filter, heater, pump for the rain system and the pump for my water feature are hidden.


the filter is on the left, the heater is obvious, and at the top left is the pump that runs the rain system. once that is removed, everything will come out with a bit of a struggle, but it comes out.

this is the pump for my water feature. this is not accessible. if it breaks down, i do need to remove the whole left side land mass to get to it. but they are very reliable, and i built the tank so that if need be, i actually can remove the terrestrial potions.


and here's what my fogger unit looks like from underneath:



also, today i picked up my lid, my aquatic substrate and my 180 degree spray nozzles for my rain system. i will start covering the vines during the week. i really want to start planting aquatics next week, especially since most of them are going to go through what is called "crypt melt". so i want them to melt and start to re-grow asap!

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## bill

covered the vine i could work with easily


everybody has a 2'x3' bin of dried coco fiber laying around, right??/LOL

here are some miscellaneous vines i made because let's face it, vines don't just grow in 1/4" diameter, right??

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## bill

this is the first time in what seems to be forever (has it only been a week?) that the tank is back in "display" position. all 3 sides are covered and will be allowed to dry for a week before i fill the tank to it's projected level, test the rain system and all other equipment. if all goes well, then we start planting. after a heavy shop vac'ing, this is what i am left with:


the dark spots are moist peat moss, it will fade as it dries.



hope you guys have enjoyed this build. it went really quick. all i need to do now, is build a stand, pick up a couple new bulbs for my light fixture and the above mentioned things and we're done!! i do not believe i will be doing a tutorial on building the stand, sorry, but i'll whip that together in a few hours during the week. besides, it will be nothing fancy, very utilitarian. until next update, Ciao!!

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## IrishRonin

This tank is looking really good, thanks for taking the time to share. So I probably missed it but what did you use to black out the glass under the land portion? The vines came out great, I did the same method to a small hose that stuck out in one of my tanks but never on such a large scale. Oh and I might not have the tub but I always have at least a 5 gallon bucket full of coconut fiber at all times  :Wink:

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## FriedrichsFrogs

_never ceasing to amaze_

----------


## bill

> This tank is looking really good, thanks for taking the time to share. So I probably missed it but what did you use to black out the glass under the land portion? The vines came out great, I did the same method to a small hose that stuck out in one of my tanks but never on such a large scale. Oh and I might not have the tub but I always have at least a 5 gallon bucket full of coconut fiber at all times


the land was blacked out by weed blocker, on the outside, it will be a waterproofing, seam sealer that i use at work. it's a proprietary 
spray used by general motors that i "liberated" when a friend's dealership went belly up. i have been using it on the outside of fish tanks for a few years now. it's kind of like a rubberized undercoating. gives a nice appearance to the exterior where you are covering up stuff. i will spray that this week.

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## bill

> _never ceasing to amaze_


thanks Jay  :Smile:  remember though, it's just some foam and plastic. it just goes to show that with some careful thought, planning, a little creativity and a lot of luck of what can be done with basic materials.  :Smile:

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## Brian

> ...step one, purchase some titebond III wood glue. you can get it at home depot or lowes. it goes for about $6 for a 16 oz bottle. Lowes has it for $26/gallon. i have never seen the gallon jug at H.D. this is what you are buying


Boo to you and your American prices! Cheapest I've seen a gallon in Canada is $40, and I'd have to order 3 to get free shipping. I haven't seen it at any of the big chain hardware stores up here. Lee Valley has the 16 oz bottle for $11.50. Boo. :Wink: 

Great build so far, and good job documenting things! I'm sure I'll be referring people to this for a Titebond III How-To (and other things). I've tried it in a small demo tank and I think it's a fantastic way to go. :Smile:

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## bill

Thanks for the kind words Brian  :Smile:  and i understand your frustration. A buddy of mine, who i bounce ideas off of, lives on a remote peninsula of alaska and can barely get some of the supplies we use, let alone at the prices we get. So i do understand. My next 2 builds however, are gonna be done with drylok and foam and the other will be a clay background. They won't be until after the new year though. At the very least, the clay one might appeal to those who cannot get to the other materials. I mean, everybody has access to kitty litter, right? Lol

And i agree, the titebond method kicks silicone's butt! No mess, no nasty fumes, and clean up with soap and water. You really cannot beat it. I was shocked to find very few people on the forum knew about it. If only i could take credit for the innovation, i would really look like a genius....lol

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## Wy Renegade

Nice job! Love the detail you put into this thread. Even though I don't do frogs (yet), I had to tag in to give you cuddos.




> Got any good sources for epiphytic orchids and/or jewel orchids?


I may have a source or two to help you out on this one. I'll try and remember to look at home this evening.




> Oh, and while you are right that i may have forgotten subconsciously,  except i was planning a trip there this weekend to pick up some worm casting and bat guano for a carnivorous plant terrarium i am building.


I hope we get to see this one on the other site as well?




> Thanks for the kind words Brian  and i understand your frustration. A buddy of mine, who i bounce ideas off of, lives on a remote peninsula of alaska and can barely get some of the supplies we use, let alone at the prices we get. So i do understand. My next 2 builds however, are gonna be done with drylok and foam and the other will be a clay background. They won't be until after the new year though. At the very least, the clay one might appeal to those who cannot get to the other materials. I mean, everybody has access to kitty litter, right? Lol
> 
> And i agree, the titebond method kicks silicone's butt! No mess, no nasty fumes, and clean up with soap and water. You really cannot beat it. I was shocked to find very few people on the forum knew about it. If only i could take credit for the innovation, i would really look like a genius....lol


Looking forward to seeing these as well.

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## bill

I'll definitely do a thread on tpt for the carnivorous tank. The drylok tank will be on tpt as well. Learner has been a great help with background ideas on that one, so i have to post it.....lol

Btw folks, this is my partner in crime from another forum, renegade. Treat him nice, we gotta convert him to froggies!! Lol

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## Wy Renegade

> I'll definitely do a thread on tpt for the carnivorous tank. The drylok tank will be on tpt as well. Learner has been a great help with background ideas on that one, so i have to post it.....lol
> 
> Btw folks, this is my partner in crime from another forum, renegade. Treat him nice, we gotta convert him to froggies!! Lol


Very cool, I'll be looking forward to those. I did manage to remember one of the sites off the top of my head, you may want to check it out for ephiphyte orchids.

Andy's Orchids - Orchid Species - Orchids - Species Specialist - Orchids on a stick

Hopefully its ok to post the website? If not, let me know and I'll edit it out.

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## bill

Funny, that is exactly who i am ordering from. He is one of the few people who grow mounted orchids from Madagascar.  :Smile:

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## bill

ok, so the bed bully left me to my own devices at Wally world this weekend (bad, BAD idea), and i ended up in the arts and crafts section. i ended up buying some oven bake clay and replenishing my paint supply (forgot red, duh!), and this is what i made from it. one or two mushrooms  :Smile:  they are just a paintjob and a clear coat away from being siliconed into the tank. since i can't grow shrooms in the tank that are from Madagascar, then darn it, i will make them!! this is one of those little bits of "attention to detail" that sets tanks apart, or at least i believe it does.

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## HerpDerp

That stuff is safe to use with frogs? That just opened a world of possibilities  :Big Grin:

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## bill

Once they are clear coated, i don't see why not. No different that sticking one of those fake skulls in there....lol

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## HerpDerp

What should it be clear coated with? Or does it need to be clear coated at all?

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## bill

I'm at odds on that one. On one hand, i want to use krylon fusion clear since i know it is safe. But i am very tempted to use a clear acrylic nail polish since they are so small.

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## HerpDerp

> I'm at odds on that one. On one hand, i want to use krylon fusion clear since i know it is safe. But i am very tempted to use a clear acrylic nail polish since they are so small.


I'm not sure nail polish would be sufficient? I would think it would chip and come off pretty easily and then be a possible ingestion danger? I've never tried to put it on something like that though :P.

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## bill

Does nail polish just chip and flake for no reason? I mean, i understand if it is impacted by something, sure, but there won't be anything in the tank to cause it to chip. I don't wear it, so i don't know. I have used it in other applications, like filling scratches in the clear coat on cars, and never had a problem.

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## HerpDerp

> Does nail polish just chip and flake for no reason? I mean, i understand if it is impacted by something, sure, but there won't be anything in the tank to cause it to chip. I don't wear it, so i don't know. I have used it in other applications, like filling scratches in the clear coat on cars, and never had a problem.


You know, I don't really know. I don't wear it really ever either LOL. Although prolonged exposure to heat and high humidity could cause the material to deteriorate over time and make it much more prone to chipping. The rare times I wear nail polish I notice it gets much softer after a hot shower or doing the dishes or even on a humid day. Just my two cents  :Smile:

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## bill

hmmmm....interesting. i feel an experiment coming on!! LOL that's gonna have to wait. i want to get this tank planted, so i don't have time for a long term experiment, but i can look into it for my next build. so krylon it is! thanks Michelle  :Smile:  see? this is the kind of input i was looking for in this thread  :Wink:

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## bill

update: shrooms and lichen cleared and installed. i still have another grouping of mushrooms to paint, clear and install. that will be over the weekend. also, vines are now covered. i have to wait until friday to do any more work. tomorrow is my babydoll's 13th birthday. where does the time fly???


and a pic of the new guys in the 125. i just thought they looked cute!!

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## Savannah

this is so cool to follow. i love the mushrooms. can't wait to see the finish.

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## Pluke

Lol, did you set them up like that or did they make that pose naturally? 

Your tank is coming along amazingly. Very impressive stuff, can't wait to see the finish product.

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## HerpDerp

The mushrooms look great. I can't wait to see how awesome it looks when it's finished!

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## pinkfeet

It just keeps getting better an better an better  :Smile:  I can't wait to see the finished product.  :Smile:

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## FriedrichsFrogs

_looks fantastic man, the vines realy came out nice in the tank like that_

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## Sherry

Holy **** Bill!!! This is going to look amazing!!! I think this one will be on the cover of National Geographic!!! (Or some popular reptile/amphibian magazine) :Embarrassment:

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## bill

> Lol, did you set them up like that or did they make that pose naturally? 
> 
> Your tank is coming along amazingly. Very impressive stuff, can't wait to see the finish product.


that was all them. It's how i found them when i got home from work.  :Smile:

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## bill

Thanks everyone. I think one more update until we get some plants in there. Hopefully, if all goes well with the rain system tomorrow night, the tank will get filled sat and aquatics planted soon after. I think the terrestrial plants will wait until after the holidays. I don't trust shipping at this time of year. At least not for live, tropical plants in the cold. I would rather not take the chance of any delays  :Smile:

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## Pluke

How long do you let your plants grow before adding the frogs? I've heard most people say to wait a month or so to let the springtails/isopods settle in. Do you add these as well?

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## bill

On this tank i will let it grow at least a month. I'm gonna order the frogs after xmas, then put them in quarantine for a month or so, all the while the plants will be growing. My wtf tank i didn't since they don't munch on springtails and isopods

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## Disco

Soooooooooooo awesome!

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## bill

I don't know if this will work, but here's a video of my first test of the rain system. Not 100% but close.  :Smile: 
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u5raSL43yzA

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## Pluke

It doesn't work, the video is private.

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## bill

Hmmmm.....i set it as public. I'll try in a bit when i get home from work and can get to a pc

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## bill

ok, this should be corrected. please let me know  :Smile:

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## Pluke

2012-11-30_21-31-58_614.mp4 - YouTube

That link will take you to the video, it looks great man.  :Smile:

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## bill

thanks Pluke, and thanks for the link, i'll paste it to my original post  :Smile:

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## bill

it won't let me edit that post for some reason. here's the link, in case anybody missed Pluke's helpful post  :Smile: 
2012-11-30_21-31-58_614.mp4 - YouTube

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## bill

aquatic substrate is in, with a layer of soil underneath:



took a break to acclimate these little guys and gals  :Smile: 


coco fiber in and ready to be planted:


ok, so i did not post pictures of how my soil went in, simply because i do not want this thread flamed about comments of how "all that perlite is gonna get swallowed and your poor frogs are going to get impacted and die!". there is 2" of coco fiber over the soil, and there will be about 3-5"of leaf litter on top of that. so, if the tiny little mantellas burrow under the leaf litter, through 2"of coco fiber and happen to swallow a piece, i will definitely be the first to admit i was wrong and will immediately break the tank down to the bare bottom and correct it. but i really do not see that happening.

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## Pluke

Dude, all that perlite is gonna get swallowed and your poor frogs are going to get impacted and die!

Aside from that it looks awesome.

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## bill

Rotf!! I needed that! Been fighting a wicked head cold all day AND trying to get this tank together, so i needed a good laugh  :Smile:

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## bill

ok, we're up and running. i planted a couple cryptocoryne species i had growing in an emersed tub on my 75, as well as some java moss and a lagenandra sp. rhizome. hoping it will grow back like they usually do

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## bill

ok, so i did a wee bit of planting this morning. i think the aquatics are set, for now. just gotta let them convert/grow. i'm off to see my plant gurus, or as i like to call them, the plant lesbians  :Smile:

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## Pluke

Looking really cool, is that fog in the second to last picture? Fog in paludariums just really makes the atmosphere that much more awesome..

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## bill

Yup. That be fog  :Smile:

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## bill

score!!! went to see the plant lesbians and they really hooked me up. found a few of the plants i was looking for and a few i didn't expect. also grabbed a couple bags of live moss.


they also hooked me up with one of their hitchhikers. i'm thinking cuban?

he was just in that tub so i could take his pic. he went into a nice quarantine tank from there  :Smile: 

after quarantining "Fidel", i set about planting. this is where we are at currently. this is the way it will stay until after the holidays and i order my orchids

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## HerpDerp

The tank looks amazing! Too funny, you go get some plants and end up with another frog! It's like an addiction isn't it? LOL

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## bill

thanks alot Michelle  :Big Grin:  and yes, it's amazing. my life is so weird sometimes...lol they told me they get hitchikers in all the time, so they have my phone number now and i guess i'll be a froggie halfway house....LOL

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## Ribbity

Bill KUDOS on your project! this looks amazing! I've been looking through several build threads now and been nabbing little bits here and there for what i want to finally achieve with my tank.

So thank you for going to all this effort for us!  :Big Grin:  All i need to do now, is come up with my final design and make a list of what materials i need! then i need to give the list to my partner and theres my christmas present. haha

i will be making a thread here and on reptileforums for the british public too  :Big Grin: 

well done dude!!  :Frog Smile:

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## bill

Thanks for the compliment. I'm glad you got something from the thread. I just wanted to show that you can have a nice set up and it doesn't require. 2 engineering degrees. People are under the assumption that elaborate vivs are difficult to build. I hope i disproved that assumption.   :Smile:

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## bill

ok, so i know you guys are sick of seeing this tank, but i took some pics last night after playing with some settings on my phone cam. i think the colors are more true to life now:

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## NatureLady

Bill,

I am sorry your tank makes me sick. It is horrible and I will take it off of your hands to keep you from having to look at it. 

Ok. It is amazing and I will take it.

I mean, I WANT IT AND I WANT IT NOOOWWWW!!! (Ok, too much Willy Wonka around my house recently)

I also wish I had your plant lesbians.

Looks amazing!!!!!!

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## bill

Lol.....thanks Amanda, that may be the nicest compliment i have received to date  :Smile:  just for that if you would like this tank, it's yours. All you need to do is drive to philly and pick it up.....lol

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## bill

And as a side note, you can never watch too much willy wonka!!

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## exasperatus2002

Good job on the build.

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## bill

Thanks  :Smile:  it gives me something to look at when i get home from work....lol

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## bill

A quickie update. The tank passed it's fruit fly test. Frogs will be ordered Jan 2!! Very excited now!!

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## bill

PICS!!! it's been a month now (almost) and the plants are finally acclimated. all the die off is over and i'm starting to get new growth. the usual suspect of white fungus has almost finished working it's way through the tank and now i think i can order my orchids. i still have some tweaking to do of the rain system, but since i am ordering my frogs monday, i'll have at least another month to play with it before the frogs get to play in their new playground. this is what it looks like as of a few minutes ago

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## FriedrichsFrogs

_i AM under the assumption that u DO have a couple engineering degrees under ur belt ur just keeping it under wraps!_

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## bill

> _i AM under the assumption that u DO have a couple engineering degrees under ur belt ur just keeping it under wraps!_


Nah, this was a simple build. it just LOOKS intricate. but it's really a basic setup. so simple, a caveman could do it  :Wink:

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## NatureLady

Looks amazing!

Now what is the aquatic substrate here?

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## bill

That would be red sea flora max. It's my newest favorite. But only one store locally sells it, and i bought all their stock up....lol

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## Savannah

has it been a month already?? wow it flew by. I LOVE it!!

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## bill

thank you Savannah!! a little update. frogs are ordered. i decided to go with Mantella Madagascariensis:


i'll post pics when i receive the 4 of them  :Smile: 

i also added another item to the "arsenal", any guesses as to what is underneath the tank?

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## DiggenEm

Nice build, love the vinework too! The colors of the mantellas are going to pop in that viv!

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

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## NatureLady

Amazing frog choice! My guess is that it is a out of this world frog communication devise, so they can phone home? No???

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## bill

Thanks amanda  :Smile:  nope, but that was a mighty fine guess. It's an algae tank for water changes and supplying nice,  fresh, clean water for my foggies.  :Smile:

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## bill

> Nice build, love the vinework too! The colors of the mantellas are going to pop in that viv!
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


Thanks digg! I agree, the colors should really pop!

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## NatureLady

Yeah, well that was my first guess. The smartass guess was just what got typed.

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## bill

Oh, i knew you knew what it was and wrote a sarcastic guess,  which is why i felt the need to make the sarcastic guess look stupid.... lol who luvs ya baby!!! Rotf!!

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## NatureLady

Oh hush!  :Big Grin:

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## bill

Hee hee!!

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## bill

ok, update time. after a very stressful day, these little critters arrived:

let me tell you, these little ones went through h-e-double hockey sticks to get across country. the box was beat up, my FF culture was a freaking mess, but due to the awesome packaging from the wonderful folks at LLL Reptile (lllreptile.com free plug..lol) my mantellas made it through delayed flights, and sitting in a truck all day with the temp outside being 38 degrees. i know you won't see this, but thank you to all the great people over at LLL!! now they get to hang out in their quarantine bin for the next month, so i guess the next update will be when they are finally "HOME"  :Smile:

----------

exasperatus2002

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## pinkfeet

Thats awesome they made it safe.  :Smile:  can't wait to see them in there home  :Smile:  LLLare awesome. Got harlo my RETF morph from them  :Smile:

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## DiggenEm

Man they look awesome. Good to see.they arrived safely.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

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## Savannah

Those are so cool looking!! What kind are they?

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## bill

> Those are so cool looking!! What kind are they?


thanks Savannah, i was actually holding off answering this one until i could get a positive ID on them. i purchased Mantella Madagascarienesis, however, i was able to positively id them as Mantella Baroni. they are almost identical frogs, only differences are on there ventral surfaces. their territories overlap in Madagascar and its believed that one is a morph of the other. most retailers just throw them all together as "painted Mantellas", so it's a crapshoot to see what you really get.  :Smile:

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## Lynn

> ok, update time. after a very stressful day, these little critters arrived:
> 
> let me tell you, these little ones went through h-e-double hockey sticks to get across country. the box was beat up, my FF culture was a freaking mess, but due to the awesome packaging from the wonderful folks at LLL Reptile (lllreptile.com free plug..lol) my mantellas made it through delayed flights, and sitting in a truck all day with the temp outside being 38 degrees. i know you won't see this, but thank you to all the great people over at LLL!! now they get to hang out in their quarantine bin for the next month, so i guess the next update will be when they are finally "HOME"


OMG - they are beautiful!
Precious, Bill

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## Lynn

how many did you get ?

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## DiggenEm

2. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

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## Lynn

> 2. 
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


? I'm easily confused

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## DiggenEm

> ? I'm easily confused


I'm sorry crapatalk was acting up. I was trying to answer a pm I received.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

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## bill

hahaha.......what digg said x 2.....lol   i was going to go with 6, but that i figured that since i have the water feature, it's not quite a 40g tank anymore, and i know they need room, so i figured 4 was good to start.  :Smile:

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## Heather

Wow, Bill! Beautiful colors  :Smile: .

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## bill

ok, so circumstances beyond my control (prefer not to discuss, don't ask) , have forced my hand and i had to cut quarantine down and add the new mantellas to their home. i gave them a day (they went in yesterday) to acclimate before i assaulted them with the cam phone...LOL here are pics as of a few. ago. oh, i might add, i added a few plants as well. a pair of drosera spatula were added to keep extra fruit flies, mites, and gnats in control, i added a pilea glouca, a nephrolepis cordifolia 'duffi", a ficus pumila var. quercifolia, cissus amazonica, an aroid vine and rhaphidaphora pachyphylla. but let's face it, nobody cares about the plants i added, you guys just want to see the frogs, am i right??LOL here ya go:
**

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## b24082

very awesome bill, I have not seen this thread yet.

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## bill

thanks  :Smile:  i'm proud of this one. i'm proud of all my tanks, but this one in particular. and it's still not done. i have 2 aerangis orchids arriving this week to finish the flora portion. now it's just a matter of the vines to grow in and finish covering up the tubing of the rain system. a year from now, this tank will look incredible.

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## HerpDerp

The tank already looks incredible, Bill! Such awesome looking frogs too. Some day I will put that much effort into a tank, but I doubt it will look this good.

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## Heather

Beautiful!

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## NatureLady

You already know how amazing I feel that this build has turned out, but I have a few questions...as always!!! In the second to last picture...what happened to the coco fiber covering on the tubing? And how deep is your water area???

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## pinkfeet

Bill it looks great  :Smile:  I bet they are just loving it. Can't wait to see it all green an lush.

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## bill

thank you everybody.  :Smile:  @Michelle, it's not so much effort, but knowledge. and i know you have that  :Smile:  @Heather thank you muches!! @Pink, yes indeed, they are loving it. i could have planted the whole floor space, they barely use it....lol




> You already know how amazing I feel that this build has turned out, but I have a few questions...as always!!! In the second to last picture...what happened to the coco fiber covering on the tubing? And how deep is your water area???


poor job on the contractor's part. he got fired. an orchid will be covering it this week.  my water level is 5 inches from the floor, but i have about 2" if substrate in there, so the shallow is only an inch and the deep is 3"

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## NatureLady

> poor job on the contractor's part. he got fired. an orchid will be covering it this week.  my water level is 5 inches from the floor, but i have about 2" if substrate in there, so the shallow is only an inch and the deep is 3"


The water level looks much deeper then 3". I bet that contractor is hired again before too long...I bet the engineer will start to miss the festive arguing.

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## Heather

> The water level looks much deeper then 3". I bet that contractor is hired again before too long...I bet the engineer will start to miss the festive arguing.


Lol!!!!!  :Big Grin:

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## bill

> The water level looks much deeper then 3". I bet that contractor is hired again before too long...I bet the engineer will start to miss the festive arguing.


After many interviews with the engineer and the architect,  a new contractor was hired. This contractor has promised to do better work, but as the property developer, i'm not so confident. I saw his truck at home depot yesterday picking up migratory workers, so maybe work will start soon. If the architect will ever get off his but and finalize the design!!

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## Heather

Haha! I know the feeling...slow on the final drawing  :Big Grin: .

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## bill

That's because the property developer wants to do something epic. Something nobody has done before, so many changes have been made.....lol

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## Heather

I'll be excited to see what 'he' comes up with, lol!

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## bill

> I'll be excited to see what 'he' comes up with, lol!


me too.....LOL

on another note, i got a couple tracking numbers today. my orchids are one their way, YAY! but most importantly, so are my hissing cockroaches!!! wow, i really would never have thought in a million years, i would be excited to be receiving cockroaches...LOL my madagascar basement project is fully on it's way now!!

----------


## NatureLady

> on another note, i got a couple tracking numbers today. my orchids are one their way, YAY! but most importantly, so are my hissing cockroaches!!! wow, i really would never have thought in a million years, i would be excited to be receiving cockroaches...LOL my madagascar basement project is fully on it's way now!!


I'll send you some Madagascar movies to round off the basement. Who needs aboriginal music when you can have 'afro circus' in your head while you enjoy your madagascar animals.

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## bill

ok, why does 'afro circus' sound wildly racist to me??LOL and truly, the best part of the Madagascar movies, didn't even come from Madagascar. the penguins are the supreme commanders of those movies!!!

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## Heather

Lol! Bill? Why is it I can picture you as Marty wearing that wig  :Wink: , lol!

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## bill

see, here's what i love about forums.......how do you know i'm not wearing that exact wig at this very moment??? anonymity has it's advantages.....LOL

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## Heather

Ha ha ha!!!!  :Big Grin:

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## NatureLady

Oh stop...the giggles...Bill in a rainbow afro wig...hahahaha...seriously stop...lmao!!!!

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## exasperatus2002

Afro Circus Madagascar 3 with lyrics - YouTube


Can you imagine how annoying he was to live with while producing that bit for the movie??

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deranged chipmunk

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## NatureLady

I had warned him that I was going to post the song after work! lol

 :Afro:

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## bill

Ok, that was from funny shjt!!! I love chris rock!!

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## Lynn

Did you get your orchid delivery? 
Photos ?

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## bill

No, not yet  :Frown:  i hope they get here tomorrow, otherwise they will be frozen orchids  :Frown:

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## bill

ORCHIDS!!!!

Aerangis citrata 'Ching Hua x self' on the top and Aerangis luteo alba var. rhodosticta on the bottom



dollar for size reference, yes, they are mini's


i'll post pics as soon as my lfs is fully re-hydrated and i mount them

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## bill

orchids are now mounted. come late spring/early summer, they should start to bloom

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## Lynn

Bill,
It's breathtaking ! 
How long will it be until the _painted beauties_ can enjoy it ?
Lynn

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deranged chipmunk

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## Lynn

Okay , I'm back
I can't believe all the precious plants growing in there!

 :Onthego: 
_Hang on ...I'm grabbing my hip waiters, a camera, and mosquito repellent. I'm goin in !!
You can't make  my swim in that water though....it's too scary. I know you --- there is something lurking in there !!!

 du-du, du-du, du-du-du-du-du-du-DU-DU-DU!

_

Lynn

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deranged chipmunk

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## bill

actually, Lynn, i had some "issues" here this past weekend that forced my hand and made me put them in early. i really am upset with myself that it was the case, but life happens. they have been in the tank since Saturday and they absolutely love it. i believe I have 2 males and 2 females, but i really won't know until spring and i start them into a rainy cycle. the 2 alleged males climb high in the tanks and the alleged females never leave the floor. oh, and i measured one today. just over an inch.

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## Lynn

Can't wait to see their pretty colors against the background.

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## bill

> Okay , I'm back
> I can't believe all the precious plants growing in there!
> 
> 
> _Hang on ...I'm grabbing my hip waiters, a camera. and mosquito repellent. I'm goin in !!
> You can't make  my swim in that water though....it's too scary. I know you --- there is something lurking in there !!!
> 
>  du-du, du-du, du-du-du-du-du-du-DU-DU-DU!
> 
> ...


believe it or not, there is nothing in the water.....lol i'm still searching for the perfect endler's live bearers to go in there. either that or some shrimp.

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## bill

Lynn, check out post #160

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## Bdimas

Great looking viv Bill! The multi levels of water are a awesome feature. Even for a Phillies fan  :Big Grin:

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deranged chipmunk

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## bill

thanks B. i don't think it would have been as dramatic without the multi layers. and i take that as the highest compliment, even if it is coming from a giants fan. btw, you're welcome for Hunter Pence. LOL

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## Bdimas

Lmao! Yes thank you. 

I changed up my waterfall to have a couple fall spots and it made a huge difference.

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## bill

it's amazing how a little change such as that can change the whole complexion of the tank. different plants start growing better, one you think would never have grown in a certain area then become weeds, ect. it's mind boggling really.

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## Bdimas

Yes for sure, and it adds a really naturalistic look.

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## kmichael55

Wow! I have no idea why I've never clicked on this thread...and now that I've finished reading I can't wait to go in to work tomorrow and buy some Titebond III!

AMAZING tank, holy **** I don't even have words for how jealous/impressed/awestruck etc I am!

Cute little Mantellas too! 
Thank you for this thread, you are always so very helpful.

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deranged chipmunk

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## bill

thank you for the kind words Kate  :Smile:  and really, i can't believe you are just getting to this thread, shame on you.....LOL you're gonna love titebond, it is so much easier than silicone.

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## Lindsey

> ok, so circumstances beyond my control (prefer not to discuss, don't ask) , have forced my hand and i had to cut quarantine down and add the new mantellas to their home. i gave them a day (they went in yesterday) to acclimate before i assaulted them with the cam phone...LOL here are pics as of a few. ago. oh, i might add, i added a few plants as well. a pair of drosera spatula were added to keep extra fruit flies, mites, and gnats in control, i added a pilea glouca, a nephrolepis cordifolia 'duffi", a ficus pumila var. quercifolia, cissus amazonica, an aroid vine and rhaphidaphora pachyphylla. but let's face it, nobody cares about the plants i added, you guys just want to see the frogs, am i right??LOL here ya go:
> **


Bill....  beautiful!  Too bad you're not SouthWest, I would hire you to build my viv!  (though it is a itty bitty size, comparatively).
Bravo, Bill!

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## DiggenEm

Looking real good!!! I see the new residents are  enjoying their home. do you have in fauna in the water feature?

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## bill

Thanks Bol. If i had a nickle for every time i've heard something like thag....lol

Digg, thanks bud, i am currently breeding yellow neocaridina and crs shrimp for the water section. I'm not sure which i want to put in there yet.

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## kmichael55

How many coats of Titebond III do you usually need to do to fully cover the G.S.?  I'm only one coat in and feeling skeptical of my methods... maybe I needed more substrate to glue ratio...

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## bill

I do no less than 2, sometimes 3. And i always sprinkle loose stuff onto it after i apply my last coat.

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## bill

time for an update.......first off, i can't seem to find 2 of my frogs. if i had an escape, i may just give this hobby up!! GRRRRR!!! anyway, i added a few things. ok, a lot of things. first off, i removed the hoya from the top left and replaced it with a nice healthy selaginella sp. i also added 4 ferns, you guys can figure out where they are, and i added some moss to the upper areas of the tank. i am FINALLY pleased at the direction it is going, since i can see my vines are all starting to take off. i also noticed that my lagenandra thwaitessi that i planted on day one and a rosette, is finally starting to shoot a leaf. thatt's the cool things about lagenandra and cryptocoryne species. they may loose all their leaves, but 99% of the time, they grow back. it may take weeks or months, but with patience and leaving them alone, they normally return. here's the new pics


this should be the final update on this tank. i am finally finished adding flora. now it has eternity to grow  :Smile:  thanks for sticking along with me on this journey folks, it has been a blast for me!!

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## Heather

Looks great! It's been fun following along. 

So...now won't you be bored with the tank all done?  :Wink: 

I'm betting your babies are just hiding in one of the nooks and crannies. I'm thinking they'll come out for dinner time?

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## bill

Oh i am sure they are just hiding. There are so many plants in there that they have plenty of hiding spots....lol bored? No way, i'm starting work on the 125 this week  :Smile:

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## NatureLady

Nice plant additions! So have you found your frogs yet?

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## NatureLady

*Sorry my browser didn't refresh with the new comment*

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## Bdimas

It looks amazing Bill. I may have to make  Giants game in Philly and see this tank in person  :Big Grin:  

Its scary when you can't find your frogs for a few days. One of the draw backs on having a large tank.

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## bill

Thanks guys. Amanda, can you believe i am up to 8 ferns in there now? Lol
Bryan, anytime man, after the giants smack the phils around, you're more than welcome to see my home away from the rainforest  :Smile:

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## Will

That is one sweet little paradise for your cool little frogs.  I thought I was done building for a while but now the itch is there.  I may have to go look at aquariums tonight.  Thanks Bill!

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## bill

> That is one sweet little paradise for your cool little frogs.  I thought I was done building for a while but now the itch is there.  I may have to go look at aquariums tonight.  Thanks Bill!


yeah, .my tanks have a tendency to do that to people. "i swear honey, i am done building tanks. ooohh, look at Bill's. didn't we have a spare 20 gallon somewhere??" LOL and thank you for the kind words  :Smile:

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## Heather

> yeah, .my tanks have a tendency to do that to people. "i swear honey, i am done building tanks. ooohh, look at Bill's. didn't we have a spare 20 gallon somewhere??" LOL and thank you for the kind words


Lol!!!! I have to say you do make viv building even more fun.

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## bill

It should be fun Heather. We sometimes take the hobby too seriously, what with all the poor, sick froggies we help ojt with, so some levity is needed sometimes  :Smile:  remember, hobbies are supposed to be fun.

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## Heather

Very true. I love helping. But my favorite thing about the forum is seeing the beautiful vivariums and photos of the frogs, and the good stories  :Smile: . I actually do enjoy educating people, but it's more fulfilling when we teach ahead of time, so-to-speak vs. when it's too late and we're at the sick phase. It's definitely easier to prevent than to heal our little fellas. 

I am really enjoying learning about the plants. Plants are the new part for me. I appreciate your and everyone's help  :Smile: . I wish more plants were labeled. Though I think I'm getting the hang of it. Your posts have helped considerably. So, thank you! Your builds are fantastic!

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## bill

you are most certainly welcome.  :Smile:  you made me blush a bit there, that doesn't happen too often....LOL 

btw, i lost my receipt from the post office, did you receive the care package i sent?

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## Heather

> you are most certainly welcome.  you made me blush a bit there, that doesn't happen too often....LOL 
> 
> btw, i lost my receipt from the post office, did you receive the care package i sent?


Haha! That may have been my intention (blushing) all along  :Wink: . Lol! Just teasing  :Smile: .

Great timing! I received the package Wednesday. They all arrived safely and nice and green  :Smile: . Thank you so much!!! That just makes me want to work even faster on my viv!  :Big Grin:

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## bill

I am glad they got to you in good condition. I hope you can use them all. The one bag was full of aquatics and marginals, so there better be a water feature in your plans.....lol

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## bill

I think one more update is going to be necessary in a few weeks. I started seeing new growth on both spikes of my aerangis citrata.  Time to bloom!!

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## bill

last night i was goofing around with the camera, and i decided to take some pics of the tank from the "frog's view". actually i took a crapload of pics, which i am going to bore you guys with. i wanted to give everyone views that you normally would only see if you were looking at the tank in person. here we go:"


Ochid Aerangis Citrata is starting to bud!!

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## bill

ooops....forgot the frogs!!LOL

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## Heather

Yes, of course ill have a water section  :Smile: .

The tank and your frogs look fantastic! It's growing in nicely  :Smile: .

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## bill

thanks Heather, i am finally happy with it enough that i can now start the 125 build. stay tuned for a build thread on it  :Smile:

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## Heather

I'll be waiting  :Smile: .

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## bill

finally! it's been 2 weeks, but we're startin to bloom!! this is the aerangis citrata 'ching hua x self'


next time, i'll turn a set of bulbs off for the pics. sorry they got a little washed out.

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## Will

Those look awesome. Your tank looks like it's filling in really nice!  Still jealous!

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

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## bill

Thanks buddy. It is filling in nice. And if i chose my orchids right, when this one finishes blooming, the other one will bloom. Of course, i could be wrong....lol

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## Heather

It's really looking beautiful, Bill!

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## bill

Thanks Heather. I'm so close to being happy with this one. There are still a few things i wouldn't mind changing.....lol

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## Heather

What would you like to change? I think it looks great!

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## Will

I agree Heather! I would be more than happy with that exact set up.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

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## Heather

Me too!

Bill can build me one anytime ...hint, hint!  :Wink:

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## FriedrichsFrogs

> Thanks Heather. I'm so close to being happy with this one. There are still a few things i wouldn't mind changing.....lol


_Perfectionists are never satisfied, and YOU, sir, fit the bill, Bill_

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## Heather

> _Perfectionists are never satisfied, and YOU, sir, fit the bill, Bill_


Ha ha ha!!!!  :Big Grin:

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## NatureLady

Seriously amazing! Your plants all look so healthy and happy. Of course, I'm sure your frogs are very happy too  :Smile:

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## firebelliedtoadz

Looks amazing!!! If i did something similar with foam and silicone, would i be able to use a razor blade and get it off, if i wanted to use the tank for fish again??

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## bill

thanks :Smile: and absolutely

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## Carlos

Hello Bill; that is one awesome paludarium  :Big Applause:  !  Just finished reading through the whole thread  :Frog Surprise:  .  Very well written and documented, thanks for sharing your secrets  :Frog Smile:  !

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## bill

thanks for the kind words carlos. i tried to make it informative, but all the while keeping it light hearted  :Smile:

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Mentat

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## bill

this thread gets a bump, because i got updates!! as some people know, due to housing issues, i was unable to keep this tank in my possession for 6 months. luckily, a friend stepped up and offered to care for the tank and it's inhabitants for me until i could keep them again. unfortunately, he is a turtle guy, and not a frog/plant guy, so there were some mishaps. i lost 4 of my mantellas, but still have 5 left  :Smile:  

when i picked the tank up this past weekend, it looked like this:




mold and algae had taken over the tank, mainly due to zero ventilation. my friend was afraid of having fruit flies get out, so he had basically sealed the tank shut.

i cleaned a few things and removed the tubing vines for the rain system and had this to deal with:




yanked a bunch of plants out and sent them to a very good friend and this was what was left:


sad, huh? since i knew i was getting this tank back, i had ordered a new plant package that i was keepong alive in a mini greenhouse from ikea (love that thing!)



planted all those into the tank, added a small fern and a variegated schefflera, and this is where we are now:






















the mantellas look very happy now. they weren't quite fed properly, so they are getting fed heavily now, and should fatten up in no time. now i can sit back and watch this tank grow in while i build a new tank for my white's  :Smile:

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## Heather

Nice save! They still look okay. They should be happy now  :Smile: .

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deranged chipmunk

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## Carlos

Glad you got that tank back before it became a "funginarium" or worse Bill  :Frown:  .  Had heard of many phobias (bridges and tall overpasses freak me out) but none about wingless flies  :Big Grin:  .  Will wait for your White's enclosure thread and plan to follow it closely and try to build one myself.  When it comes to decoration... I'm not gifted  :EEK!:  .

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deranged chipmunk

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## bill

Thanks guys! And Carlos, I will get you a plant list tomorrow. I'll be out all night tonight and won't get to it

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Mentat

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## bill

Forever tweaking. Added some violets for color, until they start to die off, in which case, they will go in the greenhouse.

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## bill

Oh, and it is housing a herd of orchids that the lovely Lynn sent me. They will be out of there in a few weeks.

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## Heather

So pretty  :Smile: .

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## bill

i have been tinkering with it all month and now i think i "may" have it where i like it:

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## bill

This tank needed a thorough cleaning, substrate change and planting revision, so I got motivated last night and tore the tank apart. It started as the top photo and my progression follows:










I have some new aquatics coming in from a local friend of mine who owes me big time, and another order coming from a good friend in Tennessee in a week or so, so we should be good then. Plus I still have work to do on it this week as well. It will eventually get there.

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## Ryan

Cant wait for the final product! AAIIEEE!

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## ariesheiress

Looks great! I made an attempt at building a set up - got stuck at the false bottom. Cant wait to see how this turns out!

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## DiggenEm

I'm glad to see this guy back in your hands  :Smile:  I can't wait to see version 2!!!

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

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## Flying Dutchman

Glad to see the vivarium is back in good hands. I have never seen fungi that much in a vivarium..... About the violets, it's a typical "elderly people" plant overhere, and I know from my grandparents (may they rest in peace) that removing the dead flowers will cause the plant to make new ones. Don't know how they will behave in a vivarium, but it's worth a try.

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## Lynn

I can't believe you are doing this over!
What a project !

 I'm glad you have your tank back   :Pride:  though

Lynn

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## bill

Oh ****, forgot about this! I will post new pics tonight. I got a wonderful plant shipment in yesterday, so I have to take pics of the new plants!!!!

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## DiggenEm

Please do! I'm in the process of redoing my 56 so I need some inspiration!

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

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## bill

I will break out the big boy camera as soon as I get home tonight and take some pics. Gotta warn you though, I added some rare aquatics to the tank, so I don't know how much inspiration I can provide lol

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## bill

Here are a few pics of the replant last week:














New pics I will take tonight.

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## Heather

Very nice! 

Ha ha! Love the reflection  :Big Grin: ! "This plant right here..."

 :Wink:

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## bill

Here are a few pics I took last night. Batteries were dead in the good camera, so you guys get phone pics 

My plant order. A couple hundred bucks worth of rare cryptocoryne species and bucephalandra species. 



Cryptocoryne bullosa 'barrio'


Now a good pic of it, but this is cryptocoryne Affinis 'metallic red'. I'll get better pics of this one in a few days when the leaves grow up towards the light



Bucephalandra species






Full tank shot






That is what it looks like as if this morning. Hope you like it

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## NatureLady

This looks so great!!! Awesome as always Bill  :Smile:

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deranged chipmunk

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## bill

Thank you darlin!

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## eduardo75

Amazing set up. Congrats from Spain.

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## Sirjohn

Bill, First thanks for such an amazing and detailed build.  You have inspired me !!!  You are very creative and resourceful, and yours are certainly amonst the best tanks I have seen. You knowledge and talent obvious, and your work subtle and detailed..  I have been working out a builld, and have a few questions.   First Question or I guess Comment is about the Mushrooms..( I love the idea of using these and am going to as part of my build).  Well being a huge fan of your Titbond 3 Method, Would'nt that work just as well as a clear coat on the rooms?  I have hit mine with Clear Coat Krylon, but am thinking as an extra precaution to give a couple of coats of Titbond.  What do you think?   My next question has to do with your drip irrigation Rain system.  I thought this was very clever by the way..  How large of a pump is needed to make it work??  I can go to the Hydroponics place and ask, but I want to hear from you after using it in this application.  I do have more questions of course, but I'll start with these... Thanks again for a most creative and detailed build..

----------


## bill

> Bill, First thanks for such an amazing and detailed build.  You have inspired me !!!  You are very creative and resourceful, and yours are certainly amonst the best tanks I have seen. You knowledge and talent obvious, and your work subtle and detailed..  I have been working out a builld, and have a few questions.   First Question or I guess Comment is about the Mushrooms..( I love the idea of using these and am going to as part of my build).  Well being a huge fan of your Titbond 3 Method, Would'nt that work just as well as a clear coat on the rooms?  I have hit mine with Clear Coat Krylon, but am thinking as an extra precaution to give a couple of coats of Titbond.  What do you think?   My next question has to do with your drip irrigation Rain system.  I thought this was very clever by the way..  How large of a pump is needed to make it work??  I can go to the Hydroponics place and ask, but I want to hear from you after using it in this application.  I do have more questions of course, but I'll start with these... Thanks again for a most creative and detailed build..


You could coat them with titebond as an extra precaution, but keep in mind, titebond dries yellow. I went with clear acrylic nail polish because they were so small and a dollar for a bottle of nail polish was cheaper than a can of spray paint for the same purpose. If you cover them with krylon fusion clear, you'll be fine. I coated a couple dried shrooms with it in my white's tank. 

My rain system ran (I disassembled it) off of a pond pump. When choosing a pump, I would recommend going bigger than you would expect. The more outlets you have, the more pressure. Try to figure out how many nozzles you will have, then talk to your hydro rep, they will set you straight. Expect to pay close to $60 or so for a pump. 

Hope that helps!

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## Sirjohn

I ended up hitting the fungus and mushrooms with marine epoxy clear.  They look good, just wanted to be sure as I wanted to use real ones, and didn't want nasties leeching out..  Why did you Dis Assemble the Rain system (Just curious), seemed like a good idea. But then again, simple is better I guess.. Like I said Bill, you have inpired me.  I will post my build, and thanks again for a wonderful post, very well explained and detailed direction for an over the top vivarium build.  Pointing out the importance of  water flow underneath, filtration, and access to parts for repairs.. All very important.

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## Ryan

Awesome tank Bill, Vivarium master!  :Smile:  is there a list of aquatics that can
be planted in Vivs and paludariums? All i know is java moss and anubias.

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## bill

> I ended up hitting the fungus and mushrooms with marine epoxy clear.  They look good, just wanted to be sure as I wanted to use real ones, and didn't want nasties leeching out..  Why did you Dis Assemble the Rain system (Just curious), seemed like a good idea. But then again, simple is better I guess.. Like I said Bill, you have inpired me.  I will post my build, and thanks again for a wonderful post, very well explained and detailed direction for an over the top vivarium build.  Pointing out the importance of  water flow underneath, filtration, and access to parts for repairs.. All very important.


You can't bear marine epoxy. I love the stuff. 

I disassembled the rain system because I couldn't care for the tank for 6 months while my family and I looked for new housing and the person who cared for it kind of let it go  the pump burned out and the covering was coming off of most of the tubing, so I decided to eliminate it since it's main purpose was to duplicate a rainy season and promote breeding. I have no room to raise tads for a year, so I eliminated it. 

So glad you found the build to be inspiringly. Does a chipmunk good to hear that  :Smile:  any other questions, feel free to ask.

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## bill

> Awesome tank Bill, Vivarium master!  is there a list of aquatics that can
> be planted in Vivs and paludariums? All i know is java moss and anubias.


Ryan, there are tons of aquatics that can be used. Java ferns, cryptocorynes, ludwigia, hygrophilias, lagenandras, bucephelandra, ect. I could go on and on. Then there are semi aquatics like piptospatha and schismatoglottis that like to grow semi emersed. It all depends on the look you are going for or biotope you are trying to create. I think I started a thread over in the plant section that I need to update with some new bucephelandra pics.

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## michael1846

Great tank. MARRY CHRISTMAS ~Michael

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## s6t6nic6l

STUNNING natural scape, well done. 

what lighting have you in there now for the plants and frogs and what species of and how many mantella live in this beautiful setup

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## bill

> STUNNING natural scape, well done. 
> 
> what lighting have you in there now for the plants and frogs and what species of and how many mantella live in this beautiful setup


Thank you  :Smile:  

I'm running 4 t5ho bulbs over it, about 14" above the tank. And it houses 4 mantella betsileo

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## bill

An update on this tank. I nuked it yesterday. The tank is no longer. I will be rebuilding it soon. It was time these little ones got a change of scenery, so they are now in quarantine and I am designing them a new "theme park"

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## Lynn

Oh boy !
I think you ( *we*  :Big Grin:  ) are delirious !
You have that symptom that makes you want to rip it down and build........_another one_
Others just buy _more tanks_ !   :Wink: 

We can look forward to another great build thread
Lynn

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## bill

If only I had the room i used to!! There's a bit more to this, but I have 2 tanks to build. This one, and one for some imitators  that one is going to be a super secret project and I won't do a thread on that one until it is complete

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## Paul

Bill,

What type of fogger do you recommend. I am thinking of getting on when I start on my Dart frog tank.

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## bill

Depends on your setup really. I like the little ultrasonics, but they require a water supply and make a small fountain. For my new build, I'm going to modify a home ultrasonic humidifier.

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