# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  Can Tree Frogs Swim? Two other questions.

## Stardust369

Hi,
So I have three main problems, just reply to whatever you can, I would really appreciate your help!

1. Death diagnosis?
I got two *white's tree frogs* about 6 months ago (from Petco, unfortunately). My parents set up their vivarium while I was in a different state, and they purchased a waterfall (which I was ecstatic about), but it requires about 4-5 inches of water at the bottom of the tank to work. I did a complete water change and scrub-down about 2 weeks ago, and this morning I woke up to find my littlest frog floating in the water. I fished him out and determined he died  :Frown:  I'm just wondering if it's possible for tree frogs to drown? I didn't see anything else wrong with him and he was fine when he was alive (lively, pooping, eating, etc.). I just want to make sure that my other frog isn't in danger of drowning.

2. Frog depression?
Is there a risk of my other frog becoming depressed? I know this can happen in pets like cats but I'm not sure if frogs have complex enough brains to experience depression. 

3. New vivarium/terrarium.
I am getting a new enclosure this weekend (  45 x 45 x 60 cm / 18 x 18 x 24 (WxDxH) at Exo Terra : Natural Terrarium Small / Advanced Reptile Habitat), and I was planning on getting a new companion for my other frog. However, the frogs at Petsmart are twice her size, and the frogs at Petco are half her size (TINY.) There is no reptile store here, I would have to drive an hour to get there and I don't even know if they have any. My question with that is, would it be better to get the smaller or larger frog, and how do I determine if the new frog I choose is healthy? Should it be extremely lively, or fatter/bigger than the others?
Also, if you have any suggestions on things to put inside the terrarium (other than substrate and other basic things) I would love to hear them! I am switching from a horizontal terrarium to the new taller one (linked above). The guy at the reptile store (I love that place) said the terrarium would be big enough to house two adult frogs comfortably.

Thanks!

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## SkeletalFrog

I've swum a wide variety of frogs for my thesis work, and none ever failed to do so.  Most were surprisingly good, even if you'd expect otherwise (red-banded walking frogs, chubby frogs), and all had more than enough capability to cross a 24" x 12" tray of water deep enough to prevent "wading" or anything like that.

If a frog died in the water, it's most likely due to another cause.

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## Louis Charles Bruckner

From my understanding WTF don't swim very well at all. 
I don't think they have the ability to close their nostrils like aquatic frogs do. 
So it is quite possible that they could drown. 

As for the death of your little one I have no clue. 

I have had a vivarirum with a water substrate but the WTF I had in it was at least 2.5in snout to vent. 
and the water was only 3 inches deep. 
it was a eco-terra low and long. 18X12X36 

For the mental state of the remaining frog who knows. these guys are very personable.

The store keeper is correct. the eco-terra 18X 18X 24 is plenty for two WTF, I have 3 in mine and that is the max. 

you have to be very careful when adding another frog. 
first you will need to quarantine it for a month.  To make sure it is healthy and not put you existing frog 
in danger. 

Also they should be close to the same size.  These guys will eat anything that moves. Including other frogs.

Most here that keep WTF have their vivairums planted with live plants. 
I highly recommend a fogger and a means of controlling the temperature and the humidity.

On my setup I have a Zoomed repti fogger and two deep dome light fixtures one with a infra-red night time heat bulb
and a 100W ceramic heat element. 
all that is controlled by a Zoomed hygrotherm HT-10 
I really like this setup. 
I go though a gallon of distilled water about every two weeks. 

Here is a picture of my setup.

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## bill

White's can indeed swim. I kept 6 in a 125 gallon paludarium with 8" of water in it. Not only could they swim to an exit point if they fell in, occasionally,  they would intentionally go for a swim. Pretty comical to watch really. I agree with Skeletal, the fdog probably passed for another reason and it was coincidental that you found him in the water.

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## Louis Charles Bruckner

Thanks Bill, 
I stand corrected. I remember reading it some where but don't remember where.

Now I don't feel bad about setting up my viv with a 90%water substate.

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## HerpDerp

I recommend getting the smaller WTF from petco and putting it in your current tank as a quarantine and put your current frog in the new tank. Quarantine should last at least a month. When I got Lrrr he was easily half the size of Glurmo but with regular dusting and proper care he was almost the same size as Glurmo after a month! There are still some frog from the same batch at the petco I got Lrrr from and they've hardly grown at all. Lrrr has almost outgrown Glurmo. 

For your new viv I highly recommend live plants. My frogs LOVE the snake plant in theirs. It's sturdy enough for them to sit right on it. And I always recommend pothos because it grows so easily and can take a beating (which it's sure to get from WTFs). You should visit the Viviarium forum here. Check out what other people are doing to get some good ideas for yours.

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## bill

> Thanks Bill, 
> I stand corrected. I remember reading it some where but don't remember where.
> 
> Now I don't feel bad about setting up my viv with a 90%water substate.


Ah, no correction needed Louis. I'm a firm believer that frogs drowning is just another internet myth run rampant. And don't fret having a water substrate, there's a herpetologist who keeps white's in a 20 h filled 3/4 with water. The frogs live on floating logs. He has yet to drown one  :Smile:

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## Stardust369

> For your new viv I highly recommend live plants. My frogs LOVE the snake plant in theirs. It's sturdy enough for them to sit right on it. And I always recommend pothos because it grows so easily and can take a beating (which it's sure to get from WTFs). You should visit the Viviarium forum here. Check out what other people are doing to get some good ideas for yours.


Thanks! Where is a good place to get live plants in the winter?

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## Stardust369

Thanks everyone! I'm getting a new frog tomorrow (probably the smaller one) and I will keep it separate from Keahi until they are about the same size. That means getting more heating elements but I can handle that. 

Now I just want a bigger apartment so I can get lots of White's and some Red-Eye's too!

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