# Frogs & Toads > Aquatic Clawed Frogs >  Ruby (ACF) is bloated

## Collegekid

Ruby, one of my ACFs, has bloated. I recently took on more hours at work and started slacking on water changes which I assume is to blame, I feel horrible. I've done one salt bath (1 gallon of water, 1/2 tsp epsom salt-30 mins per bath) a day for the past three days but so far it doesn't seem to have done much. She is able to dive but once she relaxes she floats back up top. She is mainly found floating on the surface, moving with the filter current. I'm not sure what to do. Should I medicate? I have a box of Maracyn II, though it expired in March. I can't get new Maracyn right away but might be able to pick up erythromycin or tetracycline at work today, would either of those meds work? Or would the expired Maracyn II be okay? Do you follow the treatment plan outlined on the box for fish or do you have to do a different procedure/dosage? Any help or advice is appreciated.

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## Jen

Aw I'm sorry!!

any pictures? Is it hard bloat or soft bloat?  
Soft bloat it looks like a partially filled water balloon under the skin - very wiggly and jiggly.  Comes on suddenly. 
Hard bloat looks like a balloon being inflated with air - very smooth and puffy.  Usually is more of a gradual puffing up. 

I have a feeling you have soft bloat, which is similar to dropsy judging by how suddenly it has developed and that she is floating frequently.  (often caused by a bacterial infection which may or may not be linked to you being busier...)

Treat with Maracyn II or Maracyn plus, I would not used expired medications as the potency may no longer be accurate. 
I'd continue with the salt baths.  I'd try increasing her bath time to up to an hour, even do two 30 minute baths if that is easier for you. 

Unfortunately not all cases of soft bloat are curable.  Is Ruby your only frog? If not I would separate her from the others as if it is due to a bacterial infection it may be contagious.

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## celticstarb

Also, what temperature is your tank? When I'm treating frogs for bacterial issues, I try to keep the water around 70-72. This helps slow down bacteria growth, so the frog's immune system has a better chance of working with the medicine. 

Salt baths are good, but in your display tank you may want to add a teaspoon of marine salt (like Instant Ocean) per gallon of water. I find that amount of salt is good as a preventative step for bloat.

+1 to separating your frog if she isn't your only frog. If it is bacterial in nature, it will be very contagious.

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## Collegekid

I have one other frog, I will separate her asap. I'll try to pick up new Maracyn II/plus tomorrow. I'm not sure what kind of bloat it is, her swelling is very wiggly though, it jiggles and ripples when she moves. I did read on a website about bloat that my temp may have been too high so I unplugged the heater. The water is now room temp but that's still in the mid-upper 70's, we've had a heat wave this week so hopefully it will drop closer to 72 once it cools down a bit outside. I'll also start doing longer baths. Thank you both for the help!

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## celticstarb

Try pointing a fan onto the water surface. Evaporation will cool the water to the low 70's.  You could buy a fan like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cooling-Fan-...item19d938d991

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## Collegekid

Took some photos. Her skin seems to be getting progressively worse since I started the salt baths, it's hanging off of her and she can't shed properly. Now it seems she's got a little sore forming on her left leg. 



DSC_1438

DSC_1437 

DSC_1436 

DSC_1435 

DSC_1432

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## celticstarb

Were you able to find some Maracyn II or Maracyn plus?

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## Collegekid

I have not been able to go to the store yet, I don't have a car. When my dad gets home from work I'll ask him to bring me to the store that used to sell it, hopefully they still do!

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## celticstarb

I would definitely get her started on them ASAP.  The sooner she's getting antibiotics, the better her prognosis.  

Also, please try to get her into a separate tank.  I use rubbermaid totes as hospital tanks since they are dark and help reduce stress while in isolation.

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## Collegekid

I put her in a ten gallon yesterday and got the antibiotics (Maracyn II) today and just put the first dose in. Since her salt bath yesterday she hasn't been floating, now she's sitting at the bottom (back feet on the ground and the rest of her pointing straight up). Should I continue giving salt baths now that I've given her antibiotics or should she just stay in the medicated tank?

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## celticstarb

Salt baths will compliment the antibiotics well. You will have to do daily water changes in the hospital tank, and this would be a good time for a salt bath. In addition to the epsom salt baths, I suggest adding 1 teaspoon of marine salt per gallon of water in both your hospital tank and your display tank.

Just make sure to mark your water levels in the tanks so you can top them off with fresh water right before water changes. This step is important to make sure the salt level stays consistent when you add the 1tsp salt/gallon to your new water. Remember to only add salt to water changes; don't add salt during daily top offs.

Just for general info, the epsom salt and marine salts work slightly differently.  Epsom salt is a magnesium salt that will act as a diuretic, reducing the amount of fluid the frog retains.  The marine salt will help in 2 ways. First it will help keep the frogs slime coat healthy. Second, it will make the aquarium water a little less inhabitable for bacteria and fungus.

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## celticstarb

How is Ruby today?

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## Collegekid

She doesn't physically look less bloated to me but she isn't floating and was in a horizontal position on the bottom today. She was also a little more lively when I went to catch her for her salt bath, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.
I did not do a water change today. I'm not sure how that works with the meds. Is the medicine cumulative or does it wear off every day? If it's cumulative and every packet actually stays in the water for the week I'd need to add extra medication to make up for what I'm removing and I'm not sure how to do that.

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## celticstarb

The instructions say to do a water change after 5 days, but I would do a water change daily before dosing the QT.

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## celticstarb

How is she today?

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## celticstarb

Any updates?

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## Collegekid

Sorry to drop off the face of the Earth like that. She finished her antibiotics a few days ago so I put her back in the main tank but she didn't look any better and was still acting pretty lethargic. She also hasn't eaten anything since she bloated. In the days since I've stopped the treatments the bloating on her back has gone down significantly but her legs are still full of fluid. I'm also much more concerned about her behavior, she's having trouble swimming normally and when she's floating at the surface she's not straight up and down, she leans slightly to the side and backwards. I'm afraid if it continues to get worse she may have trouble getting her nose above water. 

Not sure what, if anything, I can do for her at this point.

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## celticstarb

To be honest, bloat can be very tricky to treat.  It may take several rounds of the antibiotics to see results.  If you are worried about her reaching the surface, you can lower the water level to about 4 inches and adjust the antibiotics accordingly. You will have to be very diligent with water changes during this time since smaller bodies of water are not as stable as larger amounts.

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## Collegekid

The meds say you can repeat it once. If that doesn't work should I try a different antibiotic? She really does look much better physically but behaviorally she seems a little worse. I wonder if there's just been too much damage internally.

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## celticstarb

I would try the one repeat treatment. After that, you can try a different antibiotic.  You may want to try adding a tablespoon marine salt per gallon water to the hospital tank. Clawed frogs can actually survive brackish water, so a tablespoon/gallon shouldn't harm her.  She will be slightly more buoyant, so lowering the water level would be good.

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## Collegekid

I'm really concerned about her right now. She keeps wanting to float on her back. I put her in a salt bath to try and get the swelling down in her legs. The water is shallow in the bath, only a few inches deep but she was still rolling onto her back. I had to put in a fake fabric plant in on its side and then lay her on top of it to keep her on her belly so her nose is above water. I think if she's on her back eventually she'll feel the need to breathe and kick herself over but she's going to be too exhausted at some point. I've lowered the water in the ten gallon, I'll see how she does in there after he bath.

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## celticstarb

I have to be honest, if her behavior is already that erratic, she may not make it. I really hope she pulls through. Don't stop treating her though, she might surprise us.

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## Collegekid

I haven't started the second round of antibiotics yet, I only bought enough for one treatment so I'll have to go back to the store. That said I'm not entirely sure she needs more meds. Her bloat is nearly gone, I think her body is just working on getting rid of the fluid. I think her issues now may be the result of damage caused by being bloated for a long time.

This was her after her final day of antibiotics:


This is her today:
 
DSC_1434 


I wanted to get a picture of her in a vertical position so you could see her thighs but she didn't feel like posing today, I'll try again soon. As you can see her outward physical condition is nearly normal (she is scratched up now though). After her salt bath last night when I put her in the QT tank I got a better idea of what she can and can't do. She can move around on the bottom of the tank just fine. She can surface for air though she does swim slightly erratically when she tries to do that. She cannot float vertically at the top of the water without starting to flip onto her back. This makes it difficult for her to rest like they often do with their nose above water. This was all as of last night. Today when I just went down to get the photos she did not go to the surface at all (but did move around a little bit on the bottom) so I'm not sure if anything has changed.

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## Collegekid

Now I'm also having issues with my male frog. He keeps acting as though he's shedding his skin, you know the whole swimming erratically like he's seizing, kicking at his body then shoving his hands towards his mouth. Except he's not shedding and he's doing it every day. I'll try to get it on video. it basically looks like a seizure.

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## celticstarb

It might be a good idea to start him on antibiotics too.  Maybe a separate hospital tank for him. 


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## Collegekid

Ruby ate half a reptomin stick today. It's the first she's been able to eat since she bloated so I'm pretty excited and cautiously optimistic. 


What antibiotic should I use on my male? Are his symptoms more in line with parasites or should I just assume he's being affected by the same microorganisms as Ruby?

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## celticstarb

It's most likely that they have the same pathogen.  But it is possible he may have something else.   I would treat him as you are treating Ruby, and watch for signs of other issues.

I'm glad Ruby was able to eat some.  That is definitely a good sign. Did you add any marine salt to her hospital tank?

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## Collegekid

I haven't added any salt at this point because I haven't seen it mentioned on any websites I've gone to, so I'm a bit concerned about it's safety.

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## celticstarb

Marine salt is a safe preventative for fungal and bacterial infections.  It is such an accepted practice that the sticky "Trouble in the Enclosure", on this forum, asks how much is added (question 20.)  In many places such as Britain, escaped populations are found breeding in brackish water.

I started adding Instant Ocean after talking to a few researchers that keep frogs for oocyte collection. Salt hardens the water, which is very beneficial to the frogs. It also helps them maintain a good slime coat and lowers pathogens. 

I've been adding salt for years. Coupled with good maintenance, I haven't had a sick frog since adding salt.

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## Collegekid

Just wanted to give an update. Ruby is doing really well. A week ago I really thought I was going to lose her but she's nearly back to normal. I have not run a second round of antibiotics on her yet because she has been consistently improving so I wasn't sure it was necessary. She's able to eat (though seems to have a difficult time finding food, I need to put my finger on top of the floating pieces of reptomin for her to eat it) and swim. Today I put the water in her tank back up to its normal height and she has no trouble surfacing. She does still appear to have some trapped fluid under her skin. If you look at her while stationary you wouldn't notice it but when she swims her back still jiggles. 

My male is still having his strange episodes so I think I'm going to go ahead and medicate him. I'm wondering if I should put my female in with him and medicate both of them. I'm not sure if her remaining fluid she has is caused by bacteria that survived the first treatment making a comeback and bringing the bloat back or if it is just fluid her body wasn't able to remove. In that case antibiotics won't be helpful.

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## celticstarb

I would medicate both. Keep up Ruby's treatment until all the swelling is gone. 


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## Collegekid

I never ended up re-treating Ruby or treating Moe. I wasn't able to get to the store right away and Ruby's bloating disappeared and I haven't noticed Moe kicking at himself so much, though I still see it on occasion. Ruby's issues continue however. She is now emaciated. She's eating with no issues but appears to be starving. I'm not sure if she was skinny before and it was covered up by the bloat or if this is an after effect of the bloat. I know I need to treat them with something I just need to know what. Should I just give her more antibiotics or should I treat for parasites? And what medication can you use for parasites in aquatic frogs?

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