# General Topics > Vivarium, Terrarium & Enclosure Discussion >  Water cleaning in Paludarium

## Mikeco

Hello,
   Great to be here! Brand new to the forum and the hobby and in the very early planning/research stages of my 29 gallon attempted build. I know I want a little waterfall/creek in my set-up and would like to make the water portion of the tank able to support a few fish(tetras,shrimp etc.) or possibly a newt. My question concerns water changes/filtration. I had a Cichlid tank set-up for about 10 years so I'm no stranger to water changes in an aquarium. What I don't know is how/how often they might be needed in a Paludarium set-up?  

Should I plan to drill out the back and install a valve for drainage?
Should I just use a siphon/tank vacuum and do partial water changes?
should I rely on the eventual(biological filter) in a tank pump set-up? 

If anyone can point me to any resources on this process, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

Mike

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## dannyboy760

Howdy there Mike and welcome to the forum! I myself am new also but I have kept both saltwater,(reeftank)  freshwater systems and now a paludarium.  I have read that frog are very sensitive to poor water quality and also poor air quality. If I was in your shoes and wanted to keep fish with with frogs or lizards I would drill your system and throw a sump down below. I personally love having all my hardware easily accessible and if it is easier to access then the more likely you are to do frequent maintenance [emoji3]. I will try to get some pictures up tomorrow of my drainage and filter system for my water area. I personally have been doing 50% water changes bi-weekly for my first 2 months with my system up and running. In my sump I have a carbon reactor,bio balls, sponge filter and pre filter pads/floss. My current fish population is 5 neon tetras, 6 gold tetras, 6 harlequin rasboras, 3 blue eyed yellow forktails and an assortment of snails. One other note with a large body of water you are more likely to have higher humidity.  I recently had a humidity spike and had to tone everything down. My misting is only 5seconds twice a day until my system drys out more. All my number crunching the previous months did nothing for me once the humidity outside the tank climbed to 67% due to a couple of rainy days. I hope this was helpful and I'll try to send pics of plumbing tomorrow after work. 

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## Mikeco

I would be very interested to see that. Your recent build thread was just insane and so amazing! I really enjoyed seeing your ideas come to life. That has to be just the coolest thing to sit and tweak, maintain & just sit and enjoy after all that hard work. To say you did a nice job would be a gross understatement! That is a work of art! Thank you for the response. I look forward to watching your story unfold.

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## AAron

Hey there, glad to hear you are moving forward with your idea! So I have a Betta Fish in a paludarium setup with my White's Tree Frogs and I will be making a setup with American Toads and Mosquito Fish by summers end. If you are planning on making a setup with what sounds like a school of fish and possibly more aquatic life I can tell you one thing that you may not think to add that makes a world of difference. An air stone like the little bubbler that releases air to the top of the enclosure. It helps to keep the air quality much better for the fish. If you are planning on creating a background and having a pump flow from that then I think Exo Terra makes a pump that's similar to a cascade so you can to my knowledge have the pump suck water up and release it out and to come cascading down. 

Another pump you could use is a fountain pump and the reason why is because they are hardy pumps and can push water out fast enough to create a nice waterfall effect. 

One thing that you might want to look at is how many fish you want and see how much waste they produce. One thing that's a benefit of draining it yourself is if the tank needs some maintenance done you can get both done at the same time which if you're like me once you start doing something you can't stop! 

Some advice on the humidity since you are keeping dart frogs I would suggest using plexiglass covers you can pick up a piece from Lowe's and they can cut it to fit. You can drill holes in it and I'd advise setting it on the top of your screen cover. You can buy a fan like a small CPU fan and can monitor how much humidity is in the tank with a hygrometer. One device I suggest many keepers use is the Zoo Med Hygrotherm because if you have too much heat you could have a fan kick on and if you need humidity you can use a fogger or a misting system to bring the humidity up. You can have 80-100% humidity with the dart frogs. 

If you haven't found a light look up the MicMol Aqua Air Planted Freshwater Light. It can create lightning. It's awesome. Just get speakers or a phone and play thunderstorm noises and it will look and sound like a thunderstorm. As for a fogger I'd recommend the Evergreen Pet Supplies Reptile Fogger it's been a life saver. As for a misting system the Mistking Starter or Exo Terra Monsoon Multi are probably the most efficient and best misting systems.

I hope this helps. I would suggest maybe start out a 50% water change a week and see how much poop the frogs and fish produce in the water. 

Good luck!

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Mikeco

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## bill

I always ran submersible filters for my paludariums. If you design the tank well, you can easily access them for maintenance. One thing to keep in mind when building and sticking a Palu is to calculate your usable water volume. Most palus have a small area which can get crowded and overload the biofilter fast. This was a Mantella paludariums that I ran for over 3 years, and I never did a water change, and all hardware was self contained. Its all how you plan it. 


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## AAron

> I always ran submersible filters for my paludariums. If you design the tank well, you can easily access them for maintenance. One thing to keep in mind when building and sticking a Palu is to calculate your usable water volume. Most palus have a small area which can get crowded and overload the biofilter fast. This was a Mantella paludariums that I ran for over 3 years, and I never did a water change, and all hardware was self contained. Its all how you plan it. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh my gosh it's been years! How have you been??

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## Mikeco

Thanks very much for the advice. I'm finally figuring out how to post pictures here. I completed my build in January 2019 and added my Lemur Leaf frogs at the end of Feb. So far I am really enjoying the hobby. Endler guppies, Cherry Shrimp and a lot of aquatic plants have also been added. This will be a work in progress for years to come. Now I'm starting to plan my second build(of course)

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Larry Wardog

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## AAron

> Thanks very much for the advice. I'm finally figuring out how to post pictures here. I completed my build in January 2019 and added my Lemur Leaf frogs at the end of Feb. So far I am really enjoying the hobby. Endler guppies, Cherry Shrimp and a lot of aquatic plants have also been added. This will be a work in progress for years to come. Now I'm starting to plan my second build(of course)


Looks wonderful and what all do you have in their?

What will your second enclosure be?

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Mikeco

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## Mikeco

Thank you very much! The build process was an absolute blast and a great challenge for the mind! This is a 54 Gallon bowfront tank and my wife and I love having it in the living room. The sound of the water and watching the fish just puts you at ease.  At the moment I have Endler guppies and Cherry Shrimp in the water. The guppies are multiplying way too fast! The top had a pair of Lemur Tree frogs. One was really tiny and developed a prolapse. Sugar water seemed to shrink it but he ended up not making it. I feel like I need to get another to house with my remaining Tree frog. They are shy but fascinating creatures.  I have some powder orange isopods that are getting pretty big.  For my second build I ordered a kit from FrogCube for my 29 gal so I can do a vertical build. For this build I am torn right now between a Crested gecko(the reptile humane society near me has one available for adoption) and some Dendrobates Tinctorius Azureus. I love their personalities and watching them eat!

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