# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  Phyllomedusa sauvagii - sexing

## earthtiger

Hi,

there are theories, that Phyllomedusa sauvagii can be sexed by the shape of the nose/snout. For the ones who are familiar with this method: I this frog a male or a female?




kind regards,
Martin

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## Lynn

Hello Martin,
Hope all is well. 

I this a guessing game ?  :Smile: 

I don't keep these but I'll throw out a guess that this is male (based on the very little I know ) 
I can't see the front of it's face, so I'm going by the angle/ shape of the face below the nostrils. ( shorter, straighter ? ) 
It's hard when there are not 2 side by side. Let me know   :Big Grin: 

BEAUTIFUL FROG !!!
You have kept these for a while, yes ?

Lynn

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## earthtiger

Hi Lynn,

it is not a game, I really want to know which gender my Phyllomedusa sauvagii have. I got 5 specimens this spring as froglets / juveniles. Now I want to know their sexes. I have still difficulties to sex by the shape of the nose (>>click here<<). With some specimens, it is very obvious to me, with others I really have trouble. The one in the photo above, I hope it to be a female. It is the biggest of the group (6,5+ cm) and slightly bigger as and adult male I got at the same time and which hasn't grown much. And no nuptial pads so far - but I keep them dry. But it is just a guess and it also can be just a big male. Do you need a photo from the front?

kind regards,
Martin

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## earthtiger

Hi,

this is a 100% male:

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## Carlos

Gorgeous healthy looking frogs  :Smile:  !

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## Lynn

I'm going to stick w/ saying ...male.

Martin, good luck w/ mating them!
Please keep us posted.
Lynn

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## earthtiger

> I'm going to stick w/ saying ...male.
> 
> Martin, good luck w/ mating them!


if these two are indeed two males ...mating them might be difficult! =;-)

...but last weekend, I got a female - resp. I was told it is a female.

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## Lynn

Yes, that would be difficult indeed.
I thought you were referring to the 5 that you got in the spring........ in post # 3

They are beautiful frogs !
Good luck

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## earthtiger

Hi,

last Saturday I got this one labeled as female and for me, it looks like a female. Unfortunately a WC one. A bit skinny and a open wound on the lower side of her left food (probably kept to humid or with wrong branches to sit on), but I'll work on it.




kind regards,
Martin

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## Lynn

# 7 ..........looks like a female to me
# 1 ...I still say male

 :Smile:  Lynn

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## earthtiger

Hi,


any ideas / educated guesses, which gender specimen #3 has:







kind regards
Martin

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## Lija

How exactly did i miss this thread?  :Smile:  lol 

 Which frogs are still in question exactly since it is old thread.
1. 100% female
2 male, 
7 100% male
3  i would like more pic and to know what size it is. Based on that pic alone i would say female with 80% certainty. 

To summarize - im jealous big time!

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## earthtiger

Hi,

Lija, thanks for your input!


#1: 100% female, I agree - it is my biggest and fattest (see photo below)#2: 100% male - nuptial pads => 100% male#7: I would say female - it was one of my biggest. Unfortunately I got it with a wound at one of her hint legs. She didn't eat well. The wound didn't heal. Every day some liquid oozed out of the wound and a couple of weeks later it died.#3: I tend to female too, but aren't sure. I will post some more photos in the next days.

Beginning of May I finally removed my P. sauvagii from their "wintering grounds" in the cellar and started to feed them heavily. They are showing a tremendous appetite right now and eat me out of house and home - and themselves round bellies.

#3 is in the middle of the photo, #1 the fat girl on the right.




kind regards,
Martin

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## Lija

What are u feeding them on? Lol fatties  :Smile: 

 i would insist on 7 being a male though. Some frogs you are not sure and need more info, but that particular one, no mistakes on his profile line, he couldn't have been a female, he was jUst a big male. I had one of these, he was almost as big as a female i had at that time. Absence of nuptial pads is not reliable as they appear only when they are in mood  :Smile:  

 I dont have much experience in other tree frogs, but i have seen similar differences in profile line in others, i wonder if possible to sex others this way or it applies only to waxies.

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## earthtiger

> What are u feeding them on? Lol fatties


Their stable food are roaches (Blaptica dubia). Mainly medium sized ones but they also manage to swallow subadult specimens and adult males. Additionally I feed crickets (Gryllus assimilis and Acheta domestics).

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## earthtiger

Hi,

specimen #1 again (my biggest one):

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## earthtiger

> 3  i would like more pic and to know what size it is. Based on that pic alone i would say female with 80% certainty.


Here they are:







...any other photos needed? From other angles?

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## Lija

Nope, that is a female.

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## earthtiger

Thank you!!

...ok, next one: #4

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## Lija

That one is easy - girl!

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## earthtiger

...and another one - hope it is not getting boring! 

#5:

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## Lija

Lol looking at waxies can never be boring!

 That one is a question mark for me, it seems to be a boy, more pics?

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## earthtiger

> Lol looking at waxies can never be boring!


esp. in real life!!!
...I have two tanks with P. sauvagii next to my office desk and have to pay attention, that I work and don't get lost staring at them! =;-)





> That one is a question mark for me, it seems to be a boy, more pics?


#5 is a question mark for me too. I also tend to male, but I am not 100% sure. Will post more pix from different angles in the next days.

BTW, #4 is a male, not a girl.

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## Lija

No kidding, can u imagine how i feel to be able to look at pics now only  :Frown:  i lost all mine last fall  :Frown: (( and cant get more from anywhere for 2 years now.

 Are u sure 4 is a male, its head is very typical female, perhaps more pics too? Not just because i wanna be right lol i just love looking at them  :Smile:

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## earthtiger

And again another specimen - any suggestions?

#6

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## Lija

No questions here- it is a female.

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## earthtiger

Hi,

#4 and #6 have nuptial pads => these are my two 100% males!

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## Lija

Lol i'll be damned!

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## earthtiger

Hi,

in the meanwhile I am convinced, that specimen #3 is a female. In the last weeks - after the hibernation - her appetite is growing more and more and she is getting fatter and fatter. Some photos from this afternoon:







...soon I will put this and female #1 and male #4 and male #6 in the rainchamber...

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## Lija

Keep us updated on a progress, it is exciting!
 She looks full of eggs, hope they will make it happen!

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## earthtiger

> Keep us updated on a progress, it is exciting!
> She looks full of eggs, hope they will make it happen!


She did! ...and not only her!!

Tuesday morning 1st of July I put female #1 and female #3 together with two males in the rainchamber. Saturday (5th of July) afternoon female #1 spawned. In the following night - Saturday to Sunday - female #3 spawned. Now I am very nervous hoping that the eggs are fertile and will develop!

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## Amy

Congrats!!

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## Daniel

Wow, Lisa. That's horrible  :Frown:  Sorry for your loss. 

I agree these guys never get boring to look at. And I'm guessing they are more active than a bicolor. My bicolor is active at around 1-3am so I don't even get to see him hop around. But he does keep me up croacking. Congrats on your eggs. Hope they are fertile. Are you located in Germany?

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## Lija

Wow! Congrats! Amazing! Keeping my fingers crossed for them to develop! 

 Daniel, thanks  :Smile:

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## earthtiger

> i lost all mine last fall (( and cant get more from anywhere for 2 years now.


Have you tried Sandfire Dragon Ranch. Recently they have offered some CB ones:
Kingsnake.com Classifieds: Waxy monkey treefrogs. US captive-bred froglets

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## Carlos

Congrats on double breeding  :Big Applause:  !  Any updates on the eggs?

Hey Lija, Mike Novi breeds them and might be able to ship to your location.  Will PM you his phone when I find his card  :Smile:  .

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## earthtiger

There are a lot of visible eggs which don't develop, but few others do. But I can see only a fraction of the eggs => hopefully in the middle of the nest is a better ratio of fertilized eggs. 

I will post photos later. Curently I have a hard disk crash and therefore can't edit any photos.





> Are you located in Germany?


yes, I am from Germany.

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## Lija

Carlos he doesnt breed them anymore  :Frown:  i know about sandfire, but cross order import is too complicated if to ship ( and super expensive, shipping 800$ with all licenses, etc), i usually drive to states if i need to bring something in, but it is not in a cards now unfortunately. I just hope they are going to breed them in a future too. 

 How are eggs doing?

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## Daniel

You sure Novy doesn't breed them anymore? I talked to some people that just picked some up from him at a previous expo.

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## Daniel

> Have you tried Sandfire Dragon Ranch. Recently they have offered some CB ones:
> Kingsnake.com Classifieds: Waxy monkey treefrogs. US captive-bred froglets


I'll be picking some up from them tomorrow  :Smile:

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## earthtiger

Hi,


the first which have left the water (but not eating yet):







kind regards,
Martin

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## ColleenT

OMG that is awesome. look at all of those babies!!

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## Carlos

Congrats on your froglets Martin  :Big Applause:  !  What is the SVL upon metamorphosis and leaving water?

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## Lija

Congrats! Very cute!

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## ColleenT

i imagine the rust colored babies will all turn green?

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## Daniel

Congrats  :Smile:

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## earthtiger

Thanks all!





> What is the SVL upon metamorphosis and leaving water?


the exact size I can't tell you yet. They still have little tails. I have roughly measured them and most have 22-23 mm SLV. Some even 25 mm, the smaller ones about 20 mm.

Yes, the brownish ones will turn green.

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Mentat

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## earthtiger

Hi,


yesterday evening I transferred them in the froglet rearing tank:




and I offered them the first time some food, small crickets (Acheta domestics). This is the first which ate a cricket:




This morning:




all the best,
Martin

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## Carlos

Wow, they already look like copies of adults with that alien looking stare  :Big Grin:  !

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## Lija

Yay! They look awesome!

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## earthtiger

They are soooo cute, aren't they!?

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## Amy

They are so adorable!

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## ColleenT

gotta love baby frogs. too cute.

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## Daniel

Beautiful! They seem to grow fast based off the month that I've had my babies. They have already doubled in size.

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## earthtiger

They can reproduce in the age of 10 month => they have to grow fast.

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## earthtiger

Hi,


it seems that they are fast growers. The larger ones have already 29 to 30 mm SVL. But most are still much smaller.







kind regards,
Martin

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## Lynn

Hello Martin,
Happy to see all is WELL ! 
I went back to the very beginning of this this thread this AM.

It's wonderful !

May we put some of the current photos on Frog Forum's Facebook page?
Please let me know via a visitors message or PM---Thanks

 :Butterfly:

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## earthtiger

Moin,


some more photos:







Some have already remarkable grown:







With so many specimens, there are some which have a bit "unusual" markings. There are some with a relatively broad white band. Here is one of the extreme:







Or this one, where the white band is reaching till the eye:






kind regards,
Martin

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Lija

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## Carlos

That first photo with so many of them is cool  :Cool:  !  Interesting those with wider white band; like the one in middle photo  :Smile:  .

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## earthtiger

Hi,

I am looking for the following article:
de Vosjoli, P. and Mailloux, R. (1998). The Husbandry of Chacoan Monkey Frogs, Phyllomedusa sauvagii. Vivarium 10(1)44.

could anyone help me out with a copy?

kind regards,
Martin

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## Carlos

Good luck Martin!  Only thing can think off is to search online in out of print book stores  :Smile:  .

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## Daniel

I would contact SandFire Dragon Ranch and see if they can provide it for you.

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## earthtiger

Hi,


they are growing fast - about 5 to 6 weeks of age difference:










kind regards,
Martin

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## Lija

Very nice!

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