# Frogs & Toads > Mantella & Other Mantellidae > Breeding, Eggs, Tadpoles, etc >  OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

## Geo

OMG!!!!!!!!, woke up this morning and when I went to put some FF in the habitat for the mantellas a tiny froglet came out of the moss to chase a fly! It is soooooo small. I have finally succeeded in breding my M. Betsileo! Haven't seen any others yet. So exciting.

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MantellaGuy

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## bill

Awesome news George!! Congrats!!!

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MantellaGuy

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## Geo



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MantellaGuy

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## bill

Hello there and welcome to the world little one!!!

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## Geo

Thx Bill! Now I am on the visual hunt for whether there are any more in the habitat but it is large and covered with plants and a million places they could be easily hiding out. ugh.

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## bill

Oh I know that feeling too well! Lol that is really awesome though George! I hope you find more in there.  :-)

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## Carlos

Congratulations George :Big Applause: !

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## Joshua Ralph

WELL DONE MATE!!!  :Big Grin:  

Incredibly happy for you, we can compare notes eh?  :Smile:

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## Heather

Congrats! What an adorable little one!  :Big Grin:

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## Geo

Thx everyone. I feel like I should have a cigar or something lol (don't smoke so maybe I will have some cold cider instead). Anyhooooo, keeping due diligence in front of the habitat at the moment to see if I can sight any others. A suggestion to anyone doing a large setup for the first time - Arrange it so that you can walk around the entire habitat should you need to for whatever reason. If you got the space use it. My Mantella habitat is in the mancave on a custom built table up against the wall. Impossible to move now so the entire back of the habitat is out of visual range.

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## Carlos

> ...A suggestion to anyone doing a large setup for the first time - Arrange it so that you can walk around the entire habitat should you need to for whatever reason...


Agree 100%; large heavy set-ups should be reachable from all sides.  I know of a couple huge aquariums whose owners had to either empty them or demolish a back wall when things went wrong  :Mad:  .

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## Lynn

This is so terrific !
How exciting !

Congratulations....... Geo.

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## bill

> Thx everyone. I feel like I should have a cigar or something lol (don't smoke so maybe I will have some cold cider instead). Anyhooooo, keeping due diligence in front of the habitat at the moment to see if I can sight any others. A suggestion to anyone doing a large setup for the first time - Arrange it so that you can walk around the entire habitat should you need to for whatever reason. If you got the space use it. My Mantella habitat is in the mancave on a custom built table up against the wall. Impossible to move now so the entire back of the habitat is out of visual range.


That is why I always sound like a broken record, plan, plan, plan, test, test, test. If you can't do something when the tank is empty, you sure as heck can't do it while it is complete. 

My next build has been in the planning stages for over a year, and I'm still not sure I have everything worked out lol

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## Geo

Well, I spent the entire evening trying to relocate as much as I could so I would be able to expose the back of the habitat. Eventually I was able to mount a light back there and sure enough it flushed out some tadpoles! I saw a lot of activity but I can't say how many exactly but I can confirm at the very least that there were 5 very healthy and active tadpoles. 

I designed the habitat in such a way originally in that it is basically an island with a significant landmass above and is surrounded by water below or what I have come to call the lagoon. The landmass started off as a large / wide bowl shape structure that I made from thin elongated slabs of slate. I placed them such that they created a bowl/crater in which was placed peat moss, soil, bark, moss, plants, rocks, sticks, plants and so on. The land mass touches all the sides of the tank except for one small corner in the front in which I have access to a small sponge filter. Besides controlling minuscule debris it also contributes to the essential microbiology of the tank water.

The lagoon is a bit different then what a lot of folks do in their habitats. It has its own life-system going on. In the lagoon is a borneo which is a small type of catfish that was intended to be a janitor of sorts and he has been doing his job very well. He scavenges for his meals but is non-threatening to the tadpoles. Actually I saw two tadpoles eating right next to him and he didn't care at all. There is also a healthy population of dwarf shrimp living in the lagoon as well as "water fleas", brine shrimp and so forth. 

When the tadpoles moved to the front of the tank the first thing I noticed was that they were burrowing through the lagoon's bottom where there is an inche layer of crushed oak leaves, twigs, gravel and so on - basically what you find on the bottom of a pond. I should mention that the lagoon is 5 inches deep. These tadpoles are swimming around like crazy and very active in the bottom debris. This seems to go against a lot of what I read about not having deep water, keeping it pure and so on. My philosophy, as some of you know already, is to emulate nature and that is what I did here. The images I have included show the tadpoles nibbling on micro-organisms found on a twig in the water. Previously they were snacking on an old baby meal worm that had fallen into the lagoon that the dwarf shrimp had started to devour. It seems that they are also snacking on a mixture I make of fish flakes, algae sticks, dried bloodworms and a few other stuff.

I apologize for the quality of the images - bad lighting, me sooooo tired, tadpoles moving around quickly, water has natural tannin coloration. Hope to get something better for you all.

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## Carlos

Does your "Borneo Catfish" looks like this _Pseudogastromyzon myersi_?  If so, it is known as Myers Hillstream Loach.  Thanks for the pics; even my old eyes can see the tads.  Looks like you will have lots more froglets soon  :Smile:  .

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## bill

Very cool George. I'm very happy to see someone else realizing that having water in the tank is not only not a detriment, but a positive thing. 

I love your approach to frogging, mimic the environment. It's what we all strive for and you nailed it :-)

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## Paul

Awesome! Is there a build log for the tank you are talking about. Would love to seed some pictures of it!

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## Geo

Carlos, that is indeed the fish in question. I have been calling them Borneos for quite a while now and that is all that he is in my head lol. My experience is that they make for good general cleaners without being dangerous / intrusive as to what is going on in the tank. The dwarf shrimp also serve that purpose as well. Actually the shrimp are better cleaners and are very easy to care for. Add them to the water and that is more or less it. This morning the Borneo was sitting right beside the tadpoles. I wonder if it thinks that they are borneos too due to the similar shape they have right at the moment.

Bill, I agree - too many people seem to have some hesitation using water in their setups like some of us do. As you and I have said before, if its out in Nature then it must be ok, serves a purpose and can only be helpful inside a habitat setup. To me the three important aspects of water in the setup is keeping it clean (but not sterile, this is an important aspect of taking the natural approach contrary to the sterile approach) but allowing for microbiology to flourish, have a source of naturally occurring tannins in the water (bog wood, crushed leaves, etc) and to allow the water to be present in multiple locations if possible. I use a sponge filter which is good because they can be small and easy to setup inside the tank, they allow for microorganisms to occupy the sponge which helps with water quality. This kind of water approach only works if you don't "sterilize" the environment. 

Paul, unfortunately I never kept a visual log as I initially saw this as a private hobby. There are photos in my albums and I may include more if people want to see them and I can get some decent internal pics. Now I wish I did record more but hey.... Since I joined this forum I have enjoyed sharing and exchanging with my fellow froggers and can only suggest to the new folks to make an attempt to record what they are doing. I am very willing to share photos and such as it presently stands and answer questions but there are folks here more knowledgeable them me who may explain things better. I read, learn and try to figure things out for myself and when I think I have something useful to pass along I do. My next stage of development for the habitat is regarding the plant life present inside as well as the "bug culture" that I am trying to stabilize inside as well. Trying to make it all as au naturalle as possible without causing any concerns for the little critters living in there.

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Mentat

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## Paul

Thanks George, I have been toying with an idea for using slate rocks in my Dart Terrarium that is looming in the near future. Still not 100% sure what I am going to do, but I love the idea of having a fully functional eco system in the terrarium.

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## Geo

I say go for it Paul. Slate I have found works great for me so far (there are so many ways to approach this as is evident by the different methods used by the many caretakers here). I harvested my slate along the shoreline here, "cooked" it in the oven to sterilize it. I picked pieces that were long, wide and thin that allowed for me to tweak the shape of the "island" a fair bit. Its a natural substance so moss will stick to it, it will eventually discolor in a way that looks natural for whatever you arranged. 

When I set up the bowl/crater shape of the island I ensured that there was small caves and holes that would allow for any water life to be able to travel to and fro underneath (which apparently the tadpoles are now doing). I ensured that the edges of the island on top always reached the side of the tank (except for the opening where the sponge filter is). I layered the island from the bottom up with sea gravel, pebbles, crushed bark, moss, broken twigs, more gravel then moss and on top there are rocks, logs, plants, moss and so on. 

I ensured that each aspect of the tank has natural biology relevant to it. IE red wigglers and various small bugs in the island, dwarf shrimp, brine shrimp, miniature catfish, etc in the water. Its working for me is all I can say. I enjoy discovering new things as something kick starts inside the tank (ie last week I discovered that there are tiny snails that come out at night only and they to nibble on the plants, leave trails in the condensation on the tank walls, etc).

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## Paul

Geo,

Do you check the PH level and such of your water area, or do you let it naturally regulate itself?

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## Paul

Also would love to see a picture of your setup if you can and don't mind sharing it  :Big Grin:

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## Carlos

> Also would love to see a picture of your setup if you can and don't mind sharing it


Geo's Album: My Frogs & their habitat  :Smile: !

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## Geo

I will take an updated photo of the habitat momentarily but to answer your question - no, at present I do not test the ph level of the lagoon. I use the water from a dehumidifier that I use in the basement that I keep in good shape. As far as I am concerned it is the closest thing to rain water I can get without actually using rainwater (chemicals present). Think about what a dehumidifier does and think about the rain cycle - strong similarities in some ways. Nothing in the habitat has registered that there is any concerns with the water that I top off the tank with. 

Now the water that I spray the tank with is different though. It is from a 10 gallon "tannin tank" in which I allow gravel from the beach, twigs, chunks of old wood/forest debris and such "ferment" for lack of a better word. There are also dwarf shrimp in that tank to do some micro-managing. I fill a small spray bottle and use it as I need. 

I tend to do a mini-cycle of one week of heavy misting and one week of minimal misting and so on. Periodically during one of the heavy misting weeks I will seal the tank to allow minimal evaporation and to push the humidity levels into the mid - high 80s. Then I allow it to drop back down to the mid - low 70s. Keep in mid that the humidity increase also raises the temp a bit but this particular species is hardy to the high temps and are quite active during the heavy misting stage. I process is to simulate a periodic rain shower followed by a minor dry out.

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## Geo



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## Lynn

It's beautiful , Geo

Did you find any more froglets?

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## Geo

Unfortunately Lynn I haven't been able to locate any others at present. I do believe I know which one may be the mother though. One of the larger frogs has been staying hidden in a tight cave under a log in the back and has been very seldom seen the past month or so. I call her Moca as her bronze/brown coloration is fairly light in comparison to the others. She used to hang out in the front but now when I do the feeding time she just hops out, grabs food and hops right back in. The single froglet is also hanging around outside the log cave so I suspect a connection.

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## Geo

The two tadpoles appear to be at different stages of development. The one on the right already has its hind legs started and uses them when it is swimming.

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## Paul

Awesome Geo thanks for sharing. I would of never considered shrimp for the water janitor job. My head is now crawling with ideas on what I could do... So many ways to do things..... I must get more tanks!

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## bill

Awesome George. That tank is looking great! What species shrimp are you keeping? I bred them for years and you are correct, they are awesome bottom feeders and are excellent at taking care of detritus.

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## Paul

Geo are you just using an underwater heater to heat the tank?

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## Geo

Bill I believe that they were originally cherry shrimp, bumble bee and a green/blue type (cant recall the name) that my wife kept. About 2 years ago she gave me some to add to my african dwarf frogs setup (which I have since given to her) and I let them do their thing. Over time they cross bred and just became a regular greyish looking but very hardy shrimp. Almost nothing can kill these little fellas no matter temperature drop, significant water change and so on. They just keep on breeding and surviving. Probably a great choice for when a kid first starts a small fish tank. Periodically you will see the odd shrimp with a dark blue, a brownish red and so on pop up in the population but they appeared to have gone back to their genetic roots because I didn't keep them in isolated populations. They are excellent scavengers.

Paul the habitat is heated via two sources - the ambient temp of the basement where it is located (tends to be cooler) and the 25watts T8 Sun-Glo light canopy that is on a 12/12 hrs automatic light cycle. Nothing else. When the light goes out the cooler temp of the basement tends to eventually drop the habitats temps down to about 66-68c and when the light is on it hovers around 72-75c. The humidty fluctuates as well with the temp change so in the dark the level of condensation around the island increases and when the light is on the condensation drops and evaporation occurs. I also hand spray to control the humidity depending on what I want going on any given time. A rain system wouldn't be suitable as I find that too much mist locks them in certain behavioral patterns where as a change in routine throughout the week and so on allows for them to change their habits. IE too much heat and humidity and they stay hidden more often to cool down in the damp moss, too cool and they come out to remain alittle more dry and warm. I hope I explained that properly.

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## bill

Aha, neocaridina sp.  Yeah, they revert back to their original genetics if cross bred. I did the same once, threw a bunch of different neo's in a tank and what came out, came out. It wasn't one of my show tanks, I called it the "skittles Frankenstein tank" lol

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## firebelliedtoadz

I love your setup. What size of tank is it?

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## Geo

Thanks  :Smile:  It is a 50 gallon bow front aquarium with full light canopy. I can give the exact measurements tomorrow if you like (measuring tape is out in the shed and there is waaaaaay too much snow for me to venture out to it lol).

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## Paul

Thanks Geo!

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## Geo

Well, I got visual confirmation tonight of a second froglet. I'm hoping to get a photo of the two of them together eventually. It made an appearance a short while after I misted the habitat. It's slightly darker in coloration then the first one but quite active. It was hanging around the cave area where I suspect there may have been a clutch of eggs laid but because I am not willing to disturb the habitat it is a guess at present. There are still more tadpoles in the lagoon so crossing fingers and toes.

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## Geo

Three of the adults made an appearance at the front of the habitat for a lengthy while this evening. One of the females, who resides in the right side of the habitat to the back, appears to be gravid and was being persistently pursued by a much smaller male chirping, displaying his vocal sac, and of course countless attempts to mount her. Her stomach is so round that the neon blue/white belly markings are starting to show along the side of the body. It seems I may have another chance at another cluster of eggs being laid in the near future. from what I can tell this may be the third as Mocha and another female are no longer gravid as they were previously and I have froglets on the island and groups of tadpoles in various stages of development.

I've decided that I am going to up the anty a bit by simulating nature in another way. I am going to be adding a small neon blue led fixture above and outside the habitat to time with the moon cycle here so that whenever the moon is out in real time, magnetic effects and so on, that the neon blue light will simulate, in time, the moon's presence. 

I have also made a "wind machine" to simulate a light breeze in the habitat that I will try to find a way to place on an automatic timer that will activate it in a random fashion. I designed it from a small usb keyboard vacuum in which I dismantled and reversed the fan direction and added a lengthy tube. I have a few other ideas that I am working on as well. More to follow.

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## Geo

The DIY "breeze machine" that I made for the mantella habitat should anyone be interested. It is a modified usb keyboard vacuum. Not hard to make, just dismantled the vacuum and reverse the fan direction/flow. Eezy breezy.

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## Paul

Awesome ideas Geo! My Natural build is still in the works. The rock purchase drained my tank funds for a bit, but I am in the process of testing some ideas for it as well. Will update my thread if any of them work out.

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## bill

Very cool idea George! The plants will also love the air circulation.

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## Geo

This little beauty left the habitat lagoon today and made an appearance on the island, near the back where I believe the initial breeding took place. To date, this is the third one I have seen of the froglets but unlike the previous two this one left the water at an earlier stage of development as is visually obvious from the presence of the tail and the front legs being not completed developed. It appears to be healthy and active and can jump around by way of using its hind legs. Hope to get better photos over the next few days as it seemed to be bothered by the camera flash.

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## Carlos

That is so awesome; love the froglet coloration  :Smile:  !

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## Silkmoth

Its adorable!! Good job Geo. I hope you find many more babies.[/QUOTE]

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## Paul

Awesome Geo!

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## Geo

ugh what a night. Came home to discover that the wall unit that the habitat sits on oddly enough is splintering apart. Never saw that before in thick wood furniture. Took me three hours to carefully disassemble the habitat. Five adults are safe. One is missing so I assumed that it had died at some point. Have 6 froglets that are healthy, three more then I thought. Then I found six tadpoles with hindlegs which was way cool. If everyone does well then I have twelves mantellas from my first batch. Going to work tomorrow on a new setup. Right now everyone are in small temporary setups. whew.

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## Paul

OMG Geo that is awful! I am glad you were able to locate all the frogs and safely relocate them while you work to rebuild their home. 6 froglets and 6 tadpoles is awesome! I can't wait till mine start to breed, but I assume I am months if not longer away from that happening. 

Now is a good time to do a photo journal of the rebuild  :Smile: 

I had a Mantella startle me yesterday. I opened the tank to spray and he was sitting on a piece of wood right at the top of the tank. I didn't notice him till he moved, but luckily he didn't jump out of the tank. 

Keep us updated on the rebuild, Would love to see how you piece it back together, sorry you had to disturb their home, but I am glad you noticed it before it was a much worse situation. Now you can set it up so you can see all the sides  :Smile:

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## Geo

Thankfully I had nothing on the schedule today. Spent the entire night setting up a habitat in my large exo-terra. A semi-temporary setup while i ponder my next move. Hopefully the ecology of the previous setup continues now in the new one, especially for the youngsters. Not a happy camper at the moment but the unexpected is to be expected in this hobby. Time to get some rest lol.

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## bill

Been there George, that sucks. Luckily you caught things in time. On the upside, it gave you an accurate count, so there is a positive to come out of it. Breaking a tank down and rebuilding are a pain, but sometimes a necessary evil  :Frown:

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## Geo

Yeah, it did give me the chance to confirm the population of the colony. Because of how I created the lagoon it took forever to sift through the debris covered bottom for the tadpoles. It was just as difficult locating the froglets. And as for the adults boy can they give you a run for the money. I also wanted to be extra careful with the moss/ground cover incase there was more eggs, which I didnt notice any more but one of the females looks like she is ready to lay. They are all hiding at the moment. Hopefully they adjust ok to the modified setup. Learned a lot in preparation for the big rebuild in a couple of months.

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## Geo

A horrible week. Cape Breton got hit with one of the worst ice/wind storms in over 50 years for this region. It knocked out power to several homes for over 4 days, including my own. I was able to get myself, my wife, and our three dogs to safety in a nearby town that did have power. Our roof suffered damage in a few places which needs fixing as winter is still going strong here right now.

My entire breeding colony of Brown Mantellas unfortunately died. The six adults, the six froglets and 3 tadpoles all gone. The internal temp gauge recorded that at one point the temp was -8 inside the habitat. Several of the tropical plants suffered damage. Very sad. With the repairs that need to be done to the house I may not be able to restart my mission to develop a stable breeding colony for the time being, if at all. This situation has left me feeling a bit defeated right now. ugh. Have left the habitat up and running for the time being as it somehow feels wrong to shut it down just yet. Some of the plants seem to be perking up a little bit. Miss seeing them inside.

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## bill

George! I am so sorry for you loss! That's awful. I know how you feel (about the loss of the mantellas). I have faith that you'll be back as soon as you can. Just remember, the important thing is you and the wife are safe and ok, dogs as well.  :Smile:

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## Geo

Thanks Bill. Indeed I am happy that we came out of it unharmed. That storm was one of the nastiest to hit the area in recent memory according to some of the local old timers. I probably will get back into it again but right now I'm feeling a bit defeated although it was out of my hands so..... Its odd looking at the habitat when its empty. Is a shame that delivery / transportation of animals is so costly here in Canada.

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## bill

It is difficult and very depressing.  I have been looking at an empty enclosure for 2 months now after I lost my mantellas to the cold. I wasn't sure if i wanted to keep frogs anymore, but my senses came back and I am ready for more now. Brutal winter. Take some time, reflect, get things in order and you'll be fine. You'll probably come up with some amazing ideas for their enclosure while you are rebuilding/repairing the house  :Smile:

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## Geo

Sorry to hear about that Bill. I wasnt aware that you had lost yours as well. dang. 

Yeah, my mind is slowly starting to reboot on the idea and maybe do some adjustments. The original 50 gallon tank is sitting on the floor in the basement waiting for attention as well as the large exo-terra that I had them put in after the wall unit in the basement started to come apart. The only thing is that its quite expensive to get anything sent to me here in Cape Breton and that is my primary deterrent right now. I tell ya, that storm did a job on our roof. Actually almost all of my neighbors in this fishing village have suffered house damage. I can officially say with 100% certainty that I am fed up with this winter. Spring weather can't come soon enough for me.

oh well. life goes on.

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## taniaaust1

Oh sorry to hear you lost all your frogs to the cold. I'd just  read your thread here from the start and was getting right into hearing about your frogs (I got my first tabpoles change to frogs only weeks back), so it was a shock to then suddenly read you'd lost them all.

I hope you get some manage to get some more. Seeing transport is an issue maybe you could advertise, maybe someone in your area has some.

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## Paul

Geo I am so sorry to hear about the damage done to your home and the loss of your M. Betsileo breeding colony. I am very grateful that you, your wife, and your dogs made it to safety during that storm. I hope you get the repairs done to your home in short order, I hope spring weather comes to your neck of the woods sooner rather than later, and I hope to see a build thread on your new mantella tank in the future.

You and your family are in my families thoughts and prayers.

Paul

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## Lynn

Gosh, this is just awful. It's a terrible, helpless feeling. 
I'm glad your family and the dogs are safe and sound.
Thoughts of what you must be going through are on our minds and in our hearts. So, so sorry George.

Rise up to this  :Smile:  I'm glad you're keeping it running. 
You are WAY to good at this - that beautiful tank will recover despite this, with your TLC and expert hand.
There will be frogs again  :Tranquillity: 

We lost power for over a week once here....it was not pretty. 
Best, Lynn

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## Joshua Ralph

I am so so sorry to hear about what happened George!!  :Frown:  As long as you and your family are safe, that's the most important thing!

I will look into trying to send some Mantella over to you at some point, I will look into such licenses required and costings that may be necessary! I haven't done it before but you know, anything to help you get back into mate.

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## bill

> I will look into trying to send some Mantella over to you at some point, I will look into such licenses required and costings that may be necessary! I haven't done it before but you know, anything to help you get back into mate.


This, is why I love the frog forum family so much!!!

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## Paul

Wow Josh that is a very generous gesture!!

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## MsBlueRose

OMG! I would love to be able to breed my tree frogs one day. I think they are so sweet and undeniably adorable! Congratulations on your babies! That was a milestone some of us may never reach. Don't be discouraged, it was not your fault, mother nature can be nasty. I am deeply sorry for your loss and property damage... I very stupidly posted after only reading the first page (did not see the continuation) and I feel really bad about my first post. I deleted a lot of it and replaced it with most of what you are reading now. One of our comrades was nice enough to point out to me that I need to read the rest of the thread. I am so sorry to everyone that read this before I changed it. I feel like a callus heel now... I hope the rest of the winter was better to you Geo! I am deeply sorry for your loss. I want to cry just thinking about them. One the bright side, you seem to have a lot of good friends here on FF. I hope it all works out for you, BIG hugs!

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## Paul

Geo, I know coming on here has got to be low on your list right now. Hope recovery is moving along and everyone is still healthy and safe. 

Paul

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## Strider18

Sorry about everything that happened to you. Hoping everything is well.  :Frown: 

0.1.0 Psuedacris regilla

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