# General Topics > Plants, Plant Care & Plant Identification >  Cypress and Cedar wood: bad for frogs?

## elly

Hey, I know the mulches aren't good for frogs that can swallow them and I know the mulch is sometimes treated with chemicals, but are cypress and cedar woods themselves bad for frogs? Say, in branch form? I'd imagine they are because they smell so strongly.

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## Nodnarb

I know cedar is. and i know all conifers are said to be unsafe and not to use them. but cypress is used with snakes and some people put cypress bark in there abg mix. Iv been selling fir (cypress) firewood, and after cutting and handling it all day you are left with this smell on your hands whatever seeps into your skin smells like its toxic to frogs. That could just be the species in my area but my point is i am confused about the whole thing aswell. hopefully someone else will have some input because if you do your research youll read that conifer trees are not safe yet cypress is a conifer and that makes zero sense.

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## elly

Yeah, I found evidence that Cedar is toxic, but I'm with you on the cypress. My only guess about the ABG mix is that maybe a tiny bit of the wood mixed in with other stuff won't have a bad effect.

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## elly

This site suggests that most cypresses are harmful, but not Bald Cypress or heat-treated Fir products. Caudata Culture Articles - Wood in Vivaria

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## Brian

My usual go-to reference for vivarium wood: Caudata Culture Articles - Wood in Vivaria

He mentions Bald Cypress, _Taxodium distichum,_ as being the safe exception.

edit- hah! Beaten to the punch by a few seconds!

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## Ira

Hi, I just moved and in need of some froggy-friendly wood. I have some stuff coming, but it's still in the middle of the ocean. Looked at the article above, but the only other thing readily available in the area, that is not on either lists (meaning lists in the above article of "good" and "bad" woods) is poplar. Anybody knows about poplar?...

I have a bunch of frogs that are not purely water frogs, but need both some land and good amount of water, so I keep them in large tubs outside and make sort of multilevel "tables", which they use for both climbing out of the water onto the top level and diving under the bottom level. Right now they should be hibernating underwater outside instead of sitting in small boxes inside. But I can't find appropriate wood. Before, I used some well-seasoned, soaked and aired-out cedar, and it was OK. Here I don't know the area and don't have anything that's been sitting under the weather in the yard for a while. Also, during hibernation they're fully submerged for a long period of time, and I wouldn't be able to tell immediately if there were problem. During the warm season, I'd notice immediately if something were not quite right.

Anybody knows where one gets ash in Ventura county, California?...

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## AbranV

If I remember correctly, isn't zoo med's forest floor bedding 100% cypress mulch? Its supposed to be amphibian safe, if not, then I have some vives that need changing!

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## AbranV

Ira, you can usually go to a cabinet shop or woodworking store and get ash. www.rockler.com will also have ash depending on what you need.

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## Stardust369

I've been using Cypress mulch with my WTF since I got him. It was suggested to me by several people at a reptile expo, they all said that cypress was the only safe wood to use with tree frogs. 
I haven't had any problems using it, and it holds moisture well. My guy doesn't ingest it because I put his insects in a glass bowl.

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## AquaAurora

A lot of people are scared of cedar, with good reason, the sap in it can be toxic BUT if you get a VERY OLD piece that all the sap has left it can be safe for use.  Cedar is used around clothing as it keeps moths out, its sap has an anti bacteria make up and can cause repository issues to bugs and small animals (which is why its used for making dressers and hope chests).
I had a large chunk of red cedar in an aquarium for a pleco (member of the catfish family) which would rasp on he wood and never had health issues.  I had to eventually re-home the pleco as he was too huge and my filters could not handle the bioload (TONS OF POOP) without clogging, but the tank ran for over a year with the red cedar and was safe.
I must emphasize the well aged-ed-ness!  There was no smell to it at all and the person I bought the wood from said the wood was submerged in a man made lake for over 60 years before they pulled it out to sell.  If it smells of cedar or you cut/drill it and get a smell don't use it, the sap makes the smell and the problems.

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## bill

while all that works well for an aquatic environment, which has filtration to deal with the minute traces of sap that may extrude from the wood (the sap never leaves the wood), things are a bit different in a vivarium. there is no filtration to help, and frogs absorb everything through their skin. if any sap were to extrude from the wood, and the frog contacts it, it will absorb it directly into it's body. it's always better to err on the side of caution when it comes to frogs, due to their unique and delicate nature  :Smile:

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