# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > Beginner Discussion >  Live plants or fake?

## HethaToxic

I'm designing a layout for my poison dart frogs tank (well future PDF) and I'm trying to figure out whether to do live or fake plants.

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## Alex Shepack

Live! Always.  

Live are helpful, and really quite necessary for darts.  They help keep humidity up by transpiration and aid in creating the "vivarium" by breaking down animal waste.  You can use something as simple as pothos from the store.  Super cheap and easy to grow.

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## Daniel

> Live! Always.  
> 
> Live are helpful, and really quite necessary for darts.  They help keep humidity up by transpiration and aid in creating the "vivarium" by breaking down animal waste.  You can use something as simple as pothos from the store.  Super cheap and easy to grow.


Hi, not to smart when it comes to plants but I'm curious as to how plants alone break down animal waste?

I too would recommend live over fake as live helps provide much more cover in enclosures then fake and looks nice and as mentioned they help with humidity.

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## Alex Shepack

You're right! That statement is a vast oversimplification.  What I actually meant was that they absorb nitrates and other chemicals that come from animal wastes.  In this way they help to purify the water in the enclosure. Fake plants don't provide any such service.   

You bring up a good point though, live plants are only one part of a successful vivarium.  All sorts of microfauna are needed too! 


Cheers!
Alex

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Cliygh and Mia 2, Heatheranne, poison

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## HethaToxic

I was going to have live moss in there, I just wasn't sure about plants. What plants would best thrive in a  Dendrobates tinctorius vivarium ?

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## HethaToxic

Also with having the live plants would the humidity stay above 70% or would a fogger be essential as well ?

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## Alex Shepack

Moss is really fickle, but it's great if you can get it to grow.  There really are so many plants to choose from.  Maybe Bill can chime in with some suggestions.  A fogger really isn't necessary.  Cool looking, but not necessary.  Just use a glass lid to keep the humidity up.  Dart frogs really don't need ventilation.  

Cheers!
Alex

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## Paul

Hetha,

I spent $40 on fake plants and then threw them away. I now have a Snake Plant. 2x Pothos, and some Bromeliads in my terrarium. On top of all the things Alex mentioned they really do add something extra special to the whole setup. and my frogs absolutely love climbing on the real plants. They never used the fave ones and the tank just looked kinds a cheap with them in it... in my opinion anyways.

I bought my Snake Plant off Amazon and my Pothos as well. I bought my Bromeliads from Joshsfrogs.com simply because they grow them with use in terrariums in mind so I know they are chemical free when I get them. The snake plant and pothos I rinsed all the potting soil off and grew them in pots using ABG mix or coco fiber as the potting soil for 2 weeks and watered with treated tap water to make sure they were mostly clean before putting in the terrarium.

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## Tongue Flicker

I'd also go with using live plants for additional humidity.

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## Lynn

Always live plants for darts  :Smile: 

I FINALLY got the moss thing down!
But not before.....lots , and lots of wasted $$. I failed a thousand times.
Moss..... It is kind of .....well....independent!  Does it's own thing.
If you try to get it to grow on , for example, a pc of wood ...it will need a constant water supply 

Some moss pics:
Took these photos this morning: 

Tip: tuck it all around the enclosure -the against the glass...touching the glass and the soil
It will grow ..and eventually _adapt_ to the enclosure. 








Needs good light! 

I'm using ( one over each enclosure)  13watt LED - They are about 4" above the top glass
AND - 
75 watt Philips plant bulbs ( regular base)
I remove the philips bulbs in the warmer months as the give off heat.

My ceiling  fixture.. in the area has 48" - plant- fluorescents. ( forget which one w/ out looking at the box)

I have purchased 'tropical moss' from every supplier.
IMO Black Jungle's is the best. I has a nice woody back and always seems to be well established to help you get a good start. 

A vine in the leuc enclosure-_blooming sphagnum_ 
( with a little unidentified 'volunteer' that sprouted up ) 









This is growing on fiberglass mesh screen /on the water:







In the water:



Random photos:

It loves coconut hulls 





 















Have a great day ! We are very  cold here ! a foot-plus and 12 degrees 
Suffolk County  , Long Island, NY ( western suffolk by the LI sound ) this AM:


Best , Lynn
 :Butterfly:

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Heatheranne

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## bill

Being a plant geek, I am always going to say go with live plants. Invest in good lighting, it doesn't have to be expensive, make sure they get proper nutrition, like the frogs, and they will thrive. There are literally thousands of plants to choose from. Although, one must be careful when choosing plants for high humidity environments, like a PDF enclosure. Too much humidity will rot out plants like African violets. 

Moss is picky, but there is a key to buying moss. You need to buy TROPICAL moss. Or live sphagnum moss. Not the bundled up stuff in the gardening dept. there are a ridiculous amount of species of moss and most will grow in vivs well. Temperate moss, like that which grows in the temperate rainforests of Oregon and Washington state, won't do well in a PDF enclosure, it's too warm for it. Black jungle sells excellent tropical moss. I get it locally, but black jungle is the best I ran across online. A lot of vendors say their moss is tropical, but get it from suppliers in north/South Carolina. Hardly tropical, so beware lol

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## bill

Oh, and don't be afraid if aquatic mosses in a PDF enclosure, they love it. Mosses like Java moss, Christmas moss, willow moss, rose moss, fissidens fontanus, weeping moss. I have grown all of those successfully in my vivs.

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## Tongue Flicker

> Being a plant geek, I am always going to say go with live plants. Invest in good lighting, it doesn't have to be expensive, make sure they get proper nutrition, like the frogs, and they will thrive. There are literally thousands of plants to choose from. Although, one must be careful when choosing plants for high humidity environments, like a PDF enclosure. Too much humidity will rot out plants like African violets.


Figured that much when i pitched in on the pitcher plant topic haha.

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## Carlos

Nice thread with good info and pics  :Smile:  !

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## Heather

Moss....yes, I too tried various methods with it and different mosses to no avail, until... Black Jungle came to my rescue. Java moss! Works great, has a nice vibrant green color, grows easily if kept moist, and will attach nicely to hygrolon  :Smile: . I spray it in the gallon baggie I bought it in, put the hygrolon under it, and put it about 6" under a plant light 6500K. Every week or so I dump out the old water. So easy. It's being prepared my a dart tank. 

Plants... Live, for sure  :Smile: . Get some springtails and small isopods to help keep the tank clean and they'll even eat the white fungus. They make the ecosystem within the tank thrive. 

Any certain tank look you're going for?

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## Geo

Absolutely live as several people mentioned already. I have been focused on natural ground cover moreso then plants growing high in the tank as my mantellas seem focused on the ground rather then height which many other PDFs prefer. In their natural habitat leaf litter is very important to mantellas and that carries over to any enclosure that you have them kept in. I have leaf litter piles located throughout the tank. I am not certain if other species have a preference for leaf litter although I assume they might for protective coverage, a place to hang that is moist/dark, lay eggs, quiet isolation, etc. It has been a challenge to get moss to stabilize in the enclosure although it is there and growing at a very sloooooooow rate. As was pointed out already humidity affects the growth unless they are a tropical species. As Bill pointed out java moss is a great choice. As for other types of plants, as it has been expressed already, "tropical" is the way to go. I have several types in my enclosure and they are doing very well. I find myself having to give the enclosure a manicure every two weeks lol. I would love to find a miniature grass that would carpet the bottom to compliment the moss (if anyone knows of any).

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