# General Topics > Vivarium, Terrarium & Enclosure Discussion >  Trying to make my terrarium as best as possible..help?

## xkatelynell

Okay, so I made the mistake of trusting petsmart with the housing of my american green tree frogs..I had 2 in a 5.5 gal critter cage? Bad choice. Anywayyy. I bought a super expensive exo-terra small and started making their tank. 

Right now it has the basic critter wood chips on the bottom layer and beaked moss on top of that.. and a basic water dish and a tree and vines.. as for the light i'm using a 14w florescent energy saver is that bad? 

I'm having problems keeping the humidity up so I'm thinking about getting an ultrasonic fogger or waterfall of some sort but I'm not sure. I read they need 90% humidity and I live in Kansas.. it's super dry here most of the time. :/

anyway here's a picture of it, ANY advice would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you for reading I'm just a concerned frog mother mother.

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## John Clare

I would suggest you try blocking some of the ventilation at the top of the exo-terra - this will increase humidity.  Just make sure there is still adequate ventilation because tree frogs can get respiratory illnesses if it's too stuffy in there.  I've never used a fogger, personally - I just make sure to mist daily or every two days, and I leave a water bowl in there which they can get into if they wish.

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## xkatelynell

Thank you John. How big is your water bowl may I ask? & Do you have it in the open or under a branch?  I feel like my water bowl isn't big enough.

& As for my branches/plants/vines ect. do you think they are enough for such frogs? My small tree frog is always at the very top in between the styrofoam and the top of the cage -.- so much money and work for him to do that.. but anyway.. haha.. I feel like maybe he'd come down more if his home was more welcoming?

Thanks again!

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## John Clare

I only have a small water bowl - big enough for maybe two frogs right up against each other.  I make sure to clean it out every few days and refill it.

Are your frogs new?  They may be nervous, hence why they're hiding so much.  You could try putting real or fake plants with lots of green leaves in there - you can get fake plants at the pet shop - some have suction cups that you can use to stick the plants on the side of the terrarium.  I've found these to be very helpful in making the frogs feel more secure.

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## xkatelynell

I've had one for like a year or so (steve) who's other pals have died so I just got one a month ago  (peter) for another friend. They get along fine and everything.. funny thing peter tried to get on steve's back like you see those pictures with moms and their babies haha.

But anyway I went to go check their cage and my moss had gotten moldy? I just put it in there like 2 days ago.. soo I took out all the moss and cleaned it out with hot water and put them back in with some bark bedding instead and they are no longer hiding for now. I have a ton of fake plants in there so I know they have plenty of places to hide.. peter is just weird and enjoys the Styrofoam haha. 

I'm just becoming worried I guess because I started reading so much and I just felt like I was doing *everything* wrong, but I guess if Steve has lived so long I can't being doing *everything* wrong.

Thank you again!

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## Kurt

> I'm having problems keeping the humidity up so I'm thinking about getting an ultrasonic fogger or waterfall of some sort but I'm not sure. I read they need 90% humidity and I live in Kansas.. it's super dry here most of the time.


90% seems a little bit excessive to me. I have had my green treefrog for five years now and I never monitored the humidity in its critter keeper. My is picture in one of my albums and in Steve Grenard's book "Frog and Toads Your Happy, Healthy Pet" 2nd ed.

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## xkatelynell

Yeah I was assuming it was too high, I keep them at about 75% humidity does that sound about right to you? The moss I bought was what told me the humidity level, but I found out the hard way that I bought the very low grade moss so I wouldn't doubt it if it had the wrong information on it. 

Kurt - Since you're the 'tree frog guru' I was wondering what bedding is best for them in your opinion? Right now I have them on repti bark because that's all I had in my house at the time of finding out the moss was molding. 

All of your help is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

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## Tropicok

Hey there, Kansas girl, that's where I come from originally.   Do you find it difficult to talk to other frog keepers where you live?   Thanks heavens for forums like this.

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## xkatelynell

I haven't found a frog keeper here  :Frown:  Not one. Besides the mega store petsmart, petco, petland type places I haven't found anyone that even carries frogs. I'm sooo happy I came across this forum. I joined pangea, the reptile forum like this, and realized that out there, there HAD to be a frog one.. and here I am! Haha.

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## John Clare

If you live near Wichita, Sedgwick County Zoo is well worth a visit.  The Curator of Amphibians, Reptiles and Fishes is a close friend of mine and he's an amphibian nut (as evidenced by the newts and salamanders he has at home).

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## Kurt

Mine is on coconut bedding. I am now in the process of applying leaf litter to as many enclosures as I can and eventually my green treefrog's substrate will get a layer of it. I am using "live" oak leaves available from Josh's Frogs. These leaves do not compost too quickly, as the oak leaves I find in my yard do. Neither leaf looks like the other.

I also use sphagnum in a lot of enclosures too. In some case in conjunction with coconut bedding. Both substrate types can be used to grow plants in. My dart frog enclosure is a good example of this. Both substrate types are used together over a false bottom with a layer of LECA for drainage. On top of the substrate is a layer of "live" oak leaves. There are two bromeliads, some oak leaf ficus, a few ferns, and anubias planted in this substrate. The humidity is kept at 80%, but for some reason last night it has dropped to 65%. Have to figure out why and fix it.

For your frog 75% humidity is fine.

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## xkatelynell

John - I live quite a way from Witchita but maybe if I feel like road tripping some day I'll do that. Sounds like a really good idea. So thanks for mentioning that  :Smile: 

Kurt - You got me lost in all your frog talk o.o haha but I appreciate all that info  :Smile:  I need to get dirt basically and my humidity is okay is what I got from all of that  :Stick Out Tongue:  I need to go to the petstore sometime soon anyway so I'll pick up some coconut bedding and see if I can't order some of that leaf stuff from Josh's Frogs. 

My frogs seem to be a lot happier now that that moss is out of there! They apparently weren't fans. They're being more social again and not hiding as much.

Thanks again everyone for all the help. Be prepared for 934798348734 more questions  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Kurt

I guess I lost you with the false bottom. See the red-eyed care article to see how to build one. Link on the left.

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## xkatelynell

I know what false bottoms are I just am not 100% sure really how to make them.. no matter how many times I read them they just lose me  :Frown:  

I'm just glad that the blocking of a little ventilation made my humidity more stable and what not. 

Thanks  :Smile:

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## Tropicok

There is also a pet store in Wichita and Newton (Reptiles Etc.)  that sells frogs.  Unless you live in western Kansas I'm sure the farther east you go there are frog suppliers.  Don't know if Manhattan or Topeka would be worth the trip.  I had a hard time getting started here but persistence paid off.

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## Tropicok

Wouldn't native oak leaves collected from an area that has not been sprayed with insecticide or herbicide be good as well?  Also magnolia leaves can be used but not sure if they can be found in Kansas.  I don't remember seeing any.  It bugs me to order a box of leaves unless they are really exotic.

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## Kurt

The oak leaves around here rot very quickly, so thats why I order up live oak leaves from Josh's Frogs. Besides I like how they look too.

Katelyn, if get Greg & Amanda Sihler's book on Poison Dart Frogs it shows you how to make the false bottom. That how learned to do it. The book is published by TFH and has a blue dart frog on the cover. It sells for around $10.

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## John Clare

> There is also a pet store in Wichita and Newton (Reptiles Etc.)  that sells frogs.


Does Taron Langhover have a physical store now?

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## Johnny O. Farnen

> Does Taron Langhover have a physical store now?


Dunno, but he is making the show circuit now here in the Midwest as "Reptiles Etcetera". Which is why, among other reasons, I am completely boycotting our local show and herp orginization here in Omaha from now on. That they would even let that guy in the door bothers the heck out of me.

He is in cahoots with Dan Newsome now it seems.

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## John Clare

Well he seems to be winning friends and influencing people over on dendroboard, so he must be doing something right.  Seems to be big into selling dart frogs now.

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## xkatelynell

> Katelyn, if get Greg & Amanda Sihler's book on Poison Dart Frogs it shows you how to make the false bottom. That how learned to do it. The book is published by TFH and has a blue dart frog on the cover. It sells for around $10.


I'll have to look into it, that would be a good book to have. I think I'm going to have to start ordering stuff online anyway because I can't seem to find my tree frog cricket dust anywhere anymore  :Frown:  




> There is also a pet store in Wichita and Newton (Reptiles Etc.)  that sells frogs.  Unless you live in western Kansas I'm sure the farther east you go there are frog suppliers.  Don't know if Manhattan or Topeka would be worth the trip.  I had a hard time getting started here but persistence paid off.


It's a couple hours away but maybe when I want to take a road trip I will have to do that. I went and got my first dart frog today from the Petland in Olathe and noticed they had a red eyed..so I'm positive that will be what I get next. But maybe after *that* I will  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Skulldroog

Keep us updated with photos!

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## xkatelynell

Here's an updated picture of the terrarium 
Ya that's their names and an illustration of their size difference  :Stick Out Tongue:  
Steve is a chubby fella and peter is still a youngin  :Smile: 
& this way when people come over I don't get asked the names of *allll* of my critters



And here's a couple of pictures I took of my frogs earlier  :Smile: 

This is Steve


Steve (left) Peter (peaking out on the right)

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## Tom

With humidity i have had a lot of luck with just adding live plants. Pothos and Bromeliads  work well.  Are your frog still on wood chips? This could be harmful to their delicate skin. At most pet stores you can purchase compressed coconut bedding that comes in a brick and just needs to be soaked in water. This stuff is nice because it helps a lot with humidity, is fairly cheap, safe and stuff can be grown in it.

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## xkatelynell

> With humidity i have had a lot of luck with just adding live plants. Pothos and Bromeliads  work well.


As bad as it is, I can keep critters alive, not plants. :/ I have live plants in one tank only because my dart frog probably wouldn't enjoy that humidity difference. 

I blocked off some of the ventilation in my tree frogs home and it's done wonders with helping their humidity.




> Are your frog still on wood chips?


I bought the coconut bedding today. I bought a giant bag for like $10. The only reason they were on wood chips was because I found out my moss was molding and I live a good half an hour away from any place to get coconut bedding  :Frown:  

& I have the wood because petsmart 'advised' me to use it when I first was an innocent child looking for a first frog pet -.- 

Thank you for your advise  :Smile:

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## Tom

I made mistakes like that when i started too. Have you tried either of the plants i listed? So far I haven't been able to kill them and I am not skilled with plants either. They seem very hardy.

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## xkatelynell

I have not tried any of those yet. I will have to give them a try.  :Smile:  Hopefully I will not be able to kill them because I bet my frogs would appreciate that.

Thanks!

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## Tom

Yup frogs seem to love those two because they are strong and can support them.

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## xkatelynell

I will need strong plants if I want to support my fat old tree frog  :Stick Out Tongue:

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