# General Topics > Vivarium, Terrarium & Enclosure Discussion >  Another 10g Vertical..... [Picture Heavy}

## Shibumi

Hey FF
After reading through multiple forums over the last month or two, every chance I got, I decided to take the plunge and build. I love doing this kind of stuff.  :Wink:  At first I was going to buy a Zoo Med 18x18x24 (I like how the whole front door swings out) for a red eyed leaf frog viv, but a co-worker of mine told me about a free 10g in her building laundry room. She actually said it was a terrarium so I didn't think plain old 10g. At that point I decided to save the zoo med idea for now and practice my first build on a free 10g. I carried it home on 3 subways from Manhattan to Queens and then walked 1/4 mile to my tiny studio apartment. Ok, so here it is....... BTW I rarely order anything online so I had to hunt everything down.

My first was finding egg crate. Not so common, even in Manhattan. Right next door to my work is a business that closed down. Their front awning had egg crate (Light Diffuser) so I asked the landlord for some and he told me to take what I wanted. It was getting ripped down eventually. I love FREE. 

Showing the false bottom with my siphon porthole. 






This is my tool bench


I tried to cut my own glass from scraps I had, but it was too thin to use.......


So I had it cut for $20, 1/8" thick. I also had trouble finding the "Living Hinge" for the door, so I ordered it from a local pet store. He couldn't get it though. a few days later i left my apartment to walk the dog and I saw a huge 40-55 gallon tank out in the trash. Way to big for my studio, but it had a nice glass lid with the hinge I needed. Score!  I should call this the "lucky build". BTW, I also made a glass lid for Burt, my pacman's 10g, with the left over hinge and it's original glass that I cut to size and sanded. 


Less talk more build.....




My free planter pots. Urine specimen cups from work with drainage tube attached






Second run with the GS foam.




I left some other build pics on my camera and phone, so I'll cut to the chase Gravel around the false bottom, coco fiber substrate, fake vine from petland.....




ReptiFogger $42 Amazon....



Why the last 3 are sideways, I don't know. I can't seem to fix it.

Thanks for watching.  

Let me know what you guys think? Good or bad.

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## greene

I think its great. I wish I could do something like that

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## J Teezy

nice build.  Building your own from scratch is much more rewarding.  I love building the tanks that when i finish one i'm itching to build another just to try a new background technique.  My first one i used styrofoam insulation.  The build i'm working on now i used styrfoam again plus GS foam to foam in my pots.  I did my drains a little different than you though.  I orginally had straws in there as drains, but then took them out and just bored the hole out bigger with a grinding stone attached to my drill.  I was afraid the tiny hole of a straw may get clogged too easy.

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## BadKat

J,  If you put a few packing peanuts into the bottom of your planting pots it can help to improve the drainage.  It may help to keep the plants from becoming pot bound also.  If they seem too big just break them up a bit.

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## J Teezy

> J,  If you put a few packing peanuts into the bottom of your planting pots it can help to improve the drainage.  It may help to keep the plants from becoming pot bound also.  If they seem too big just break them up a bit.


Good idea, i may try that i don't know, i kind of don't like the idea of loose styrofoam like that though in case some of it happen to brake off some how and make it into a frogs mouth

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## Shibumi

Thanks for the kind words. JTeezy, I saw your build thread. I like that wall and I'm watching your other build. I also saw the straws, it was a good idea. I was actually thinking of that at first. But I was thinking big fat bubble tea straws. I had the plastic tubing lying around so I used that. I think the whole process is a learning experience. I will change a lot on the next build. It definitely is rewarding. When I finished the project I looked around and thought, now what? I want more!! I'm going to use this temporarily and then get the Zoo Med and try my hand at a styrofoam, removable background. I'll put the Red-Eyed Tree Frog in that and maybe get a Mossy Frog for this one. Then I'm done. No more room, unless I get rid of my microwave oven?? 

Here are some more pics from my camera. I'm using these blue pill dram containers to plant in, they fit perfectly in the urine cups. ;p Then i'll be able to switch all the potted plants around. Take some out, put another in... interchangeable plants.













I just got back from the florist and they had some nice air plants and I think It's a Pink Starlight Brom (id from google). I'll post a pic a little later.

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## Heather

Looking great!

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## BadKat

> Good idea, i may try that i don't know, i kind of don't like the idea of loose styrofoam like that though in case some of it happen to brake off some how and make it into a frogs mouth


Cutting up nylons (yes women's leg wear) and making bags for the styrofoam is one idea. I don't know why I didn't mention it in the first place.  I don't think it would harm anything as long as it has been rinsed thoroughly.  This works great for houseplants also, though it does look a bit funny when you stuff a pair with the peanuts.   :Big Grin:

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## BadKat

Shib, 

I forgot to say that I like how your viv is shaping up.  Using free pee cups was inspired...I just hope you washed them out first.  ;D  We bought a zoo med (12x12x18) and the waterfall kit. It's been expensive and was a son of a Momma dog to set up. 

Looking forward to seeing it once the whiz cups are all filled. (With plants, get your minds out of the gutter people)

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## Shibumi

> Shib, 
> 
> I forgot to say that I like how your viv is shaping up.  Using free pee cups was inspired...I just hope you washed them out first.  ;D  We bought a zoo med (12x12x18) and the waterfall kit. It's been expensive and was a son of a Momma dog to set up. 
> 
> Looking forward to seeing it once the whiz cups are all filled. (With plants, get your minds out of the gutter people)


Even better, the urine cups were sterile. Right into the tank without needing to bleach, bake or boil.

Here are the plants I picked up yesterday. The Bromeliad is Pink Starlight. I don't plan on housing anything in here until about July, so everything is getting 5% bleach soak and going straight into the viv. Then right before I'll CO2 bomb it with dry ice.

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## BadKat

*whispers*  I was just teasing about the pee cups.  

I like the plants, what is the wavy armed one with the red flowers? It's purty.

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## Shibumi

> *whispers*  I was just teasing about the pee cups.  
> 
> I like the plants, what is the wavy armed one with the red flowers? It's purty.


According to google, it's "Tillandsia caput". I had to fight a lady for that one. It was the only one flowering in the bin.
 :Wink:

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## Shibumi

UPDATE with plants. I moved a few things around since the last pics I took and added an arrowhead plant. What was I thinking with so many background pots. I still have 4 left and it's getting a little crowded. I'm really liking the new additions though. What do you guys think?

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## J Teezy

throw some kind of vine in that front most pot

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## Shibumi

> throw some kind of vine in that front most pot


I was thinking about a button fern? I have a small one that might grow in nice there.

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## Shibumi

Another plant added. I'm hoping that the button fern will cascade a little. Also, the Tillandsia in the middle with the red buds, is starting to show a purple flower. NICE!

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## J Teezy

what are you putting in this animal wise?

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## Shibumi

> what are you putting in this animal wise?


Most likely Red eyed leaf frog, but the thumbnails are calling to me (pun intended). I just don't know about dealing with the flies in my small apartment. 
With the crickets, I get them 10 at a time and keep them in a critter keeper.

I have a question. If there is no leaf litter and I do get a RELF, should I put springtails or isopods in there? Don't they need the leaf litter? I've read that they usually  won't eat the microfauna so how much would you add?

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## J Teezy

well let me say this.  I'm new to the hobby and have only really been involved for a few months.  My first thing i wanted to house was a Red Eye Tree Frog in a 10 gallon vertical.  So i built the tank, planted it, etc. and then found out it was going to be a little more work to keep the humidity and temperatures where they should for an RETF.  How did i know this?  I ran my tank for a couple weeks with no animal in it trying to make adjustments to misting cycles, using a heat pad etc.  I wasn't happy with the results I was getting so i decided on some dart frogs.  Another thing with the RETFs that was turning me off was the fact that they aren't the best for watching for entertainment plus they sleep all day being nocturnal.  So since my tank was holding humidity and temps perfect for darts.  So i bought a couple 4 month old Leucs, and they are pretty awesome little frogs.  Kind of skittish at first but after a couple of days they have warmed up nicely to their new home.

As far as leaf litter for a RETF i don't think its really necessary since they won't really walk around on the ground.  You may want to cover your soil layer with some sphagnum or leaf litter though to keep substrate from sticking to your frog should it wander onto the ground level.  Again i have no experiecne with them personally just relaying information i learned from my own research.  You'll want plenty of climbing for an RETF and remember you'll need a water bowl and probably a glass dish to put crickets in and with that you'll want to provide a way for the frog to get to both of those without having to walk on the ground.  Remember these frogs live in the canopy's of the trees and never really see the forest floor in the wild.

With springtails an RETF wouldn't really eat them.  If you are adding them for cleanup duty, i don't really think they are necessary for a RETF.  Springtails are more common in dart frog setups to feed on the decaying leaf litter, frog poo, and what not.

All in all i would make sure you can maintain the proper temp and humidity for at least a week that a RETF requires before you commit to buying one.

Oh and Fruit Flies aren't that bad really.  I leave in an apartment size condo and raise and feed out FF's.  If you are worried about some getting loose in your apartment here's what i do.  I go outside on my porch when i'm transferring flies from a culture into a new culture or putting flies into a cup to feed from, that way if some do get loose they are outside anyway.

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## Shibumi

> well let me say this.  I'm new to the hobby and have only really been involved for a few months.  My first thing i wanted to house was a Red Eye Tree Frog in a 10 gallon vertical.  So i built the tank, planted it, etc. and then found out it was going to be a little more work to keep the humidity and temperatures where they should for an RETF.  How did i know this?  I ran my tank for a couple weeks with no animal in it trying to make adjustments to misting cycles, using a heat pad etc.  I wasn't happy with the results I was getting so i decided on some dart frogs.  Another thing with the RETFs that was turning me off was the fact that they aren't the best for watching for entertainment plus they sleep all day being nocturnal.  So since my tank was holding humidity and temps perfect for darts.  So i bought a couple 4 month old Leucs, and they are pretty awesome little frogs.  Kind of skittish at first but after a couple of days they have warmed up nicely to their new home.
> 
> As far as leaf litter for a RETF i don't think its really necessary since they won't really walk around on the ground.  You may want to cover your soil layer with some sphagnum or leaf litter though to keep substrate from sticking to your frog should it wander onto the ground level.  Again i have no experiecne with them personally just relaying information i learned from my own research.  You'll want plenty of climbing for an RETF and remember you'll need a water bowl and probably a glass dish to put crickets in and with that you'll want to provide a way for the frog to get to both of those without having to walk on the ground.  Remember these frogs live in the canopy's of the trees and never really see the forest floor in the wild.
> 
> With springtails an RETF wouldn't really eat them.  If you are adding them for cleanup duty, i don't really think they are necessary for a RETF.  Springtails are more common in dart frog setups to feed on the decaying leaf litter, frog poo, and what not.
> 
> All in all i would make sure you can maintain the proper temp and humidity for at least a week that a RETF requires before you commit to buying one.
> 
> Oh and Fruit Flies aren't that bad really.  I leave in an apartment size condo and raise and feed out FF's.  If you are worried about some getting loose in your apartment here's what i do.  I go outside on my porch when i'm transferring flies from a culture into a new culture or putting flies into a cup to feed from, that way if some do get loose they are outside anyway.


Haha, we think alike. I have the most boring frog right now. He burrows, so I really can't plant anything and he sleeps all day. I stil like the pacman but I don't really want another nocturnal pet. I like the darts being diurnal. So it might end up a dart frog tank. As for flies? I would maybe use my bathtub. Thanks for your input. I've also done tons of research and like everyone who want to start out with darts, they don't wan't to deal with flies. I'd get over it after I got the hang of them and my cat might play with any strays. I guess it's more reading up for me. Whatever I decide to get, it will be after my vacation in july. I don't want someone to have to care for more frogs.

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## J Teezy

you could even do flies over the sink, just fill it with a little water so the flies that escape during the transfer land in it.  Flies really aint that bad, i'd rather deal with flies than crickets really, and flies are super cheap to culture

my leucs are becomming bolder each day.  One of them is always out hunting during the day.  Sometimes they hunt together but i mostly see one at a time.  I like watching them hunt, they give a stare down to the fly for a bit then SMACK, fly gone

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## BadKat

Shib,
I'm going to agree with J on the red eye.  We ended up with one that was being given away on CL and it has been named Rock.  As in "Hey babe your rock actually moved"  We also ended up with two fire bellies and an American toad. They are more interesting, now to find a non cricket feeding solution.

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## Shibumi

Ok, you guys talked me into it. I've been reading up on thumbnail frogs, possibly the vanzolini? Not sure when, but that's where I'm leaning. What I want to know is can they live off springtails or do they require fruit flies?

Just a few updated pics. Now I have to get some leaf litter and the bowl is temporary for now.

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## Jon

> Hey FF
> After reading through multiple forums over the last month or two, every chance I got, I decided to take the plunge and build. I love doing this kind of stuff.  At first I was going to buy a Zoo Med 18x18x24 (I like how the whole front door swings out) for a red eyed leaf frog viv, but a co-worker of mine told me about a free 10g in her building laundry room. She actually said it was a terrarium so I didn't think plain old 10g. At that point I decided to save the zoo med idea for now and practice my first build on a free 10g. I carried it home on 3 subways from Manhattan to Queens and then walked 1/4 mile to my tiny studio apartment. Ok, so here it is....... BTW I rarely order anything online so I had to hunt everything down.
> 
> My first was finding egg crate. Not so common, even in Manhattan. Right next door to my work is a business that closed down. Their front awning had egg crate (Light Diffuser) so I asked the landlord for some and he told me to take what I wanted. It was getting ripped down eventually. I love FREE. 
> 
> Showing the false bottom with my siphon porthole. 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This looks amazing, well worth the effort  :Smile: .

I am in the process of making my own viv. What type of moss did you use? How did you ad the moss to your branches? Does it stay on there naturally or do you have to add a little silicon?

Thanks
Jon.

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## Shibumi

> This looks amazing, well worth the effort .
> 
> I am in the process of making my own viv. What type of moss did you use? How did you ad the moss to your branches? Does it stay on there naturally or do you have to add a little silicon?
> 
> Thanks
> Jon.


Thanks for the compliment, I used the dried out frog moss you find at petsmart. I think the company is T-Rex that packages it. So far mine has stayed green for about a month, but I soak it down 2x a day. It's just pushed in a crevice between the wood and background. No adhesive. I hope it will grow there. The mass on the floor will most likely get covered with leaf litter at some point. They say that it's hit or miss. So far so good!

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## Shibumi

I have a major design issue. Hopefully you all can help me decide. The pot in the front, on left wall? Seems a little "in your face" to me. It hides the whole left side of the viv.  It almost blocks out 2 of the other pots in the back, which I also have trouble accessing. Should I scrape it off the wall?? Will the thumbnail dart even use it? It would probably take me 2 second. lol
So what do you think, rip it or leave it?? I just don't want to make it look worse or mis-utilize space.

Thanks
Jeff

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