# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  Feeding Frogs Fruit Flies = Frustrating!

## Chelspaz

(Try saying that 3 times fast. :P) 

I have young frogs who are still very small. They can only eat fruit flies right now and I'm finding it really difficult to find a regimen that works just right. 

I put my frogs (3) into a separate feeding container together, and then I drop the flies in with them. This is the method I've been using recently:

This is the container of flies I got online. Specifically at snailtail.com:


I cut out the mesh from one of the breathing holes and put tape over it, like a bandaid so the flies don't stick to the tape over the hole. 


Then when I'm ready to feed my frogs I put a little plastic vial over the hole and let the flies crawl into the vial. 


Then once I've got the desired amount of flies in the vial I plug the vial with a cotton ball and set up my frogs in their container. Then I basically unplug the cotton and tap the flies into the container. 

I guess what frustrates me the most about this technique is that I never do get my desired amount of flies in the vial. 

I just really don't know what to do with these huge containers of flies to where I can feed my frogs without getting flies EVERYWHERE as well as keeping my frogs contained while I'm dropping the flies in their feeding container. 

I just can't wait until my frogs are big enough not to have to eat these darn things ever again!!!! Can anyone tell me how long that may take? For them to maybe get big enough to eat small crickets? I have gray tree frogs btw. 

The whole point of this post is to see what kind of ideas I can get about efficient ways of doing this. You see what I've got to work with, so PLEASE help me get creative with a cool solution for this!

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## awelcome

check out my post, I think it might be helpful to you. 

http://www.frogforum.net/food-feeder...fe-easier.html

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## Chelspaz

That is a nice modification. I will definitely consider that method! Thanks!

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## awelcome

It has saved me much frustration already, and is holding up perfectly.

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## Paul

What types of frogs are you feeding?

Fruit Flies can be frustrating and mess when you first start using them, but once you get the hang of it they are far easier than keeping crickets on hand  :Smile: 

I have a video on my youtube channel that I show how I make new Fruit Fly cultures and how I feed from them. The link to my channel is in my signature  :Smile:

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## Chelspaz

I mentioned at the end that I'm feeding gray tree frogs. :P

I will definitely check out your video as well. Thanks!

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## Carlos

Why don't you feed fruit flies directly into the frog's enclosure and use feeding containers?  Also; are you using food supplements (CA/D3 and vitamins) to dust flies?  It is very important to do so during a froglet initial growth stage.  Sample schedules in here:  http://www.frogforum.net/food-feeder...schedules.html.

Here is method I use to feed all my darts in couple minutes.  You will need 2 empty plastic 32 oz. containers; your fly culture; a sink to catch any escapees.  In one container you add your food supplement according to schedule.  Tap you FF culture and open lid; tap again.  Tilt FF container 45-60 degrees (FF like to climb) and tap them into empty container held by other hand.  If they start climbing up before getting dusted (slows them down) tap that hand to mix them up.  Once you get the desired amount; tap both containers, place one with dusted flies down in sink, tap the culture and place lid on it.

Now tap lightly the container with flies until all are well dusted and tip it while lightly tapping to get dusted flies into the second empty container.  The idea is to get all flies out while leaving supplement dust behind.  Once separated (a bit of dust will always get through - no worries) then just tilt the flies into your frog's enclosure.  You want to add enough flies so froglets eat to satiation.

It sounds complicate as you read and first couple times; but once it becomes routine, you can feed many frogs from different cultures in a couple minutes  :Smile:  .

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## Chelspaz

I dont think putting the flies in their enclosure would work all too well because the flies would get very easily lost in there and if they make it to the top, they could easily fit through the holes in the mesh lid. Are you saying to put the flies in a container and put that container in the enclosure? 

I do put vitamin supplements on their flies every other day.

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## Chelspaz

What's to say the flies won't climb out of the container while it's in their enclosure also? Flies know how to get around, even if their flightless. I've definitely figured that out! Lol. 

I guess I like the small opening kind of ideas for the cultures because I can more easily control how many flies I tap out. If I open the entire lid, I think it'll just be a mess. Even if I tap it, some will stick to the stuff they climb on inside the culture (forgot what it's called) and still make their way quickly to escape. 

Fruit flies make me nervous. Lol.

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## Paul

No I just dump the flies into the Vivarium. They can and will climb out of the tank if it is not FF proof. One thing you can do is set a small container near the tank or even on top of it filled with sugar water. The flies will dive in for a tasty snack and then die  :Smile: 

A glass of vinegar works as well, but smells awful.

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## awelcome

In the beginning I was putting them all in and ended up with a good  number of escapees from the tank.... either through the mesh or even the  edges of the glass door.  It was frustrating.  Putting glass on top  (for humidity reasons) only helped some and I still found them often.   This was when I had a pretty bare tank in the beginning and they would  scatter in the moss pretty quickly.

Then I redid my tank (to make it more proper for my species no thanks to  the pet store) and I ended up with not only leaf litter which allows  for a flatter feeding surface, but a large piece of flat wood which is  my chosen feeding spot.  It works great, and though the flies do scatter  some they don't get far before he gets them.  In fact not many make it  off that log.  The ones that do he picks off throughout the day, and I  haven't had escapee problems since.  I also, once I get them into the  cup I will feed from doing the first cup method and then tapping into  second cup to leave behind the extra supplement dust, put a lid onto  that one and only drop in about a quarter to a third of the flies at  once and let him get most of those before I add the next round.  It  takes longer, but I like to watch him eat anyway, and from start to  finish I am always done within 10 minutes.

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## Chelspaz

> It has saved me much frustration already, and is holding up perfectly.


I tried your modification tonight and it worked like a charm! Now I just have to get used to tapping and not tapping TOO hard because then I'll get too many flies! Lol. That's better than not getting enough though! This was also such an easy modification I feel silly I didn't think of it! Lol.

Thanks again!!!  :Big Grin:

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## awelcome

it took me a while to think of it lol... and I am glad it worked so well for you too.  I can't imagine using these containers without it.

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## Chelspaz

Yea I honestly didn't know how the manufacturers or whoever thought we would be able to manage. I guess they just left us to think up our own ways. Lol.

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## awelcome

I started off with a nice mayo type jar from The Fruit Fly Company or something like that.  It was MUCH easier to maneuver, so when I started culturing my own with the NEHERP containers I really struggled with the huge opening and the flies just pouring out all over like some horror film lol.  I am sure with practice it's easier, but it was just too crazy for me and I am a problem solver.

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## Paul

I will try to do a video tomorrow with a culture I have that is just busting with flies to show how I do it and get it posted. It really is easy once you get a system. I may have a couple flies get out onto the table, but those are easily caught and added into the feeding cup.

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## Lynn

Chelsea
Could you post a photo of the enclosure the frogs are in?
 :Butterfly:

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## Chelspaz

It's just your basic frog starter kit that I got at Petsmart. I'm definitely planning on investing in something a bit bigger as the frogs themselves get bigger. but while they're small enough, this is working perfect.  :Smile:

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## Chelspaz

If you're interested in seeing pictures of my actual frogs, I have PLENTY of pictures on my profile page. I even have some of when they were tadpoles. I'm a photography buff so I kind of went a bit crazy with taking pictures of my frogs.  :Big Grin:

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## Chelspaz

Sorry I keep posting. I just keep remembering different things to mention - last one though. 

I also fed my frogs in their separate containers rather than in their enclosure. Each frog even has its own little tupperware. I just find that easier for me to just control my frogs as well as the flies and also make sure all the frogs get food. I do have a lazy frog who doesn't work too hard for his food so I'm always concerned that when I feed them all together, he's not getting enough. But this way I can rest easy. Lol.

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## ColleenT

what i do is this- tap the jar so they fall to the bottom, get the lid off, tip it sideways OVER a small bucket-type container. i have calcium in the bottom of the bucket. not too much, maybe a tablespoon at most. when i get enough, i tap the ff jar and snap the lid on. i then take the bucket and swirl the ff in it. carry it up to my vivarium and hold it sideways while they all crawl out. i use my finger to scoot them out faster, and keep checking for any that might be stuck in the dust, and remove them as well. the bucket thingy is not very big, but it's WIDE, and they fall right in from the ff container. everyone does it differently, but this works for me, and no ff on the floor.

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## Lynn

> Attachment 72586It's just your basic frog starter kit that I got at Petsmart. I'm definitely planning on investing in something a bit bigger as the frogs themselves get bigger. but while they're small enough, this is working perfect.


Hi 
Have you considered removing all of the moss ?
(you don't want to ever feed them on the moss...because they can accidently eat it which can cause an impaction) 

Replace the moss  ( while they are little ) w/ dampened paper towels.
Dampen the pt w/ de-chlorinated water.

I use these kind of - _staging_ -'grow out' enclosures for froglets and for the QT of newly acquired dart frogs.

For example:

  


( these are a 2.5 gallon glass aquarium that comes with a glass lid for $12.00 from petsmart)
shown- one with paper and one without the one without ( soil added) is used when they are old enough to find their food more easily on their own. These are housing R imitator 'varadero' froglets. These tanks come in plenty of sizes with lids of which you can add glass to.

Just a thought.  :Smile:  This will enable you to monitor their food intake while they are still small. 
You would be able to add the flies directly into either type of these enclosures without removing them everyday for feeding.
This will help to reduce the stress of handling the froglets frequently.

 :Butterfly:

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Heatheranne

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## Chelspaz

Thank you for your suggestions. I think my froglets are getting use to the routine we have and at the same time I'd like to believe this routine is also helping them get used to me handling them.

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## bill

Every time you remove those frogs from their enclosure, you are stressing them. Stress is one of the biggest causes of death in reptiles and amphibians. You may think they are "getting used to being handled", but I assure you, they are not. Feeding in the enclosure is the closest thing to them feeding in the wild and the least stressful for the frogs. 

You've gotten a lot of great advice from some people with some SERIOUS amount of experience. It would behoove you to follow their advice. Doing otherwise would just be plain irresponsible to those little darlings you are keeping. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Paul

Been sitting here trying to think what else could be said and I don't really feel like there is anything else. You have been given some great advice by people I know, trust, and respect. The advice we offer is not something we will hold up in front of you and wave like a flag and state it is the end all be all way, but it is knowledge that is being imparted to you to help you better care for your amphibian friends. Our one goal... our Main goal is to arm you with the methods and techniques we use to successfully care for our frogs. We didn't invent most of them and we don't claim to have all the answers, but we do practice them on a daily basis and are constantly learning new and better ways to do things.

Handling your frogs is absolutely something you want to limit. We don't mean to appear like we are attacking you as a group, but more like we see a need to impart some knowledge to help you be successful with your frogs so we all are eager to rush in and help add our voice.

We won't judge you for how you choose to provide husbandry to your little friends, but we also won't give up on trying to course correct you from time to time.

We are always here to help, sometimes even when you don't want us to.

Paul

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## Chelspaz

Lol I didn't say I wasn't listening to all of this advice. Was just voicing what I was thinking. I will try and figure out a way to feed them in their enclosure without it getting too messy. Otherwise, these flies, even coated in powder, obviously know how to get around and escape. I just don't want flies everywhere in my house.

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## Chelspaz

I guess I'm also afraid that if I throw a container of flies in my enclosure, my frogs might not get the memo that they actually have to go in the container or what have you. Or maybe I'm not understanding these instructions I'm given. What would really help me are pictures of how everyone is feeding their frogs the fruit flies. I'm a visual learner and it's hard for me to just read instructions and then go do it myself. Lol.

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## Chelspaz

> Hi 
> Have you considered removing all of the moss ?
> (you don't want to ever feed them on the moss...because they can accidently eat it which can cause an impaction) 
> 
> Replace the moss  ( while they are little ) w/ dampened paper towels.
> Dampen the pt w/ de-chlorinated water.
> 
> I use these kind of - _staging_ -'grow out' enclosures for froglets and for the QT of newly acquired dart frogs.
> 
> ...


And speaking of pictures, I'll definitely keep this in mind. A $12 tank is affordable for me! Lol. I guess my only question with this is about air circulation. If it's all glass, including the top, is there still decent ventilation of the air in the aquarium? Do you just use the glass top when feeding so the flies don't get out, and maybe use a mesh top normally?

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## Paul

Chelsea - When I do the video today of getting fruit flies into a cup I will also include feeding them to the frogs. I literally just dump them onto the tank. 

One tip for keeping the flies MOSTLY in the same place is to bury a small piece of banana where you dump the flies, this will keep most of them there for your frogs to find. 

Frogs feed off a trigger when they see movement. Adding the flies into a spot that is easy for them to see will draw them to the flies like moths to a flame  :Smile:

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## Chelspaz

Thanks a lot DigitalPunk! I'll look forward to seeing your video.  :Smile:

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## MsBlueRose

I look forward to seeing it as well. I have been feeding newly hatched pinhead crickets to my Grey froglets. I have wondered about the FF but have not gotten them as of yet. I will have to get some before winter though. I have 2 baby Cricket frogs that I have been feeding Leaf Hoppers to and that will only last until the weather cools down... Thanks for sharing all this wonderful advice everyone! I enjoyed reading this thread!  :Smile:

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## Paul

Oh here it is. Fresh off the press. Hope if helps in some small way!

Our Fruit Flie Technique

Thanks

Paul

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Heatheranne

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## Chelspaz

Thanks a bunch! Will watch it as soon as I'm back at home!

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## Lynn

> And speaking of pictures, I'll definitely keep this in mind. A $12 tank is affordable for me! Lol. I guess my only question with this is about air circulation. If it's all glass, including the top, is there still decent ventilation of the air in the aquarium? Do you just use the glass top when feeding so the flies don't get out, and maybe use a mesh top normally?


For your froglets you might consider the purchase of a little larger  tank , say 5 gallons.
You can purchase a screen lid of which will have to be modified to keep the humidity in.

This can be done by covering  more than 3/4 of the top with some kind of plastic.
I think I  have even used the wide 'scotch brand type ' clear packing tape  :Big Grin: . Believe it or not, it holds up well to the humidity. You could tape plastic across the top as well.

The photos show are an example of one used for dart frogs ( the top is completely glass)
 w/ some very small holes on both sides of the rim that allow some air in .

These will work for you but I think the 5 gallon could work to your advantage since  your frogs are larger......whereby allowing for  some 'growing room'. Either way you will _opening-up_ often enough not to worry about it. 

If you are feeding frogs fruit flies .....it's inevitable some will escape.  :Big Grin:  
After a little practice- you will be able to get the little buggers in there without so many getting away on you.

I wrap a ( non zip lock baggies) around the opening of the fruit fly culture container and gently tap them into the bag/then dust/ then feed.

Think about getting prepared to begin to offer them pinhead crickets as they will need to graduate to crickets as a main feeder source soon. Pinhead crickets are typically a mail -order item. You will find them at Josh's Frogs. ( I believe the link is in prior posts). Small cricket are at pet shops, but not pinheads. Remember the feeder should not be larger that the space between the frogs eyes. 

 :Butterfly:

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## awelcome

another little thing.... and this may only be true for me/some.  My frog knows when it's time to feed and will wait for me at the spot.  I feed him the same time every day, it's also the time I put the lights on.  He waits patiently for me there and I open the front part of my enclosure to tap the flies literally right in front of him.  He is used to this and just waits for me to do that and then goes to town.  Then when he gets most of those I tap a bit more (3/4 times til I give him all I shook out which is around 60-80 flies typically).  Could you put something in your tank that offers you a flat surface to feed on?  A rock or piece of wood perhaps, and then start a routine they might learn so t hey can be there waiting when it's time?  With this method very few get away and wander around the tank throughout the day.  If I can manage I will try to get a video of it soon perhaps to show you how I do it.

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## awelcome

Ok, rather than wait til tomorrow, I decided to just give my little piggy a bonus feeding today and take a quick video.  Obviously I would do things slightly different in the mornings, using more flies, and feeding in parts like I mentioned, but for this I only gave him a few (like maybe 20).  I count and watch him eat, partially just because I find it interesting and also to make sure I am giving enough/not too many flies since I am still getting my routine set and I find it hard to estimate flies sometimes.  Once he's done eating I will usually then spray the log down with my dechlorinated water to wash away any extra powder that ended up in there, which isn't usually much.  I was a litlte sloppy for this video to get it done faster so it didn't end up a long video.  Sorry, hope the angles are ok... I HATE being on camera and said NO face shots, but I had my husband video and I noticed sometimes he has my hand blocking the view, but you get the idea.  If you are still unclear about part of it though feel free to ask, or I can attempt another video for a full feeding tomorrow still if you want.  Here it is... super simple.

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## Chelspaz

Thank you guys for all the videos!* Paul's* video had so many fruit flies and they were all getting away in the enclosure, I was just urging that frog to eat them all up before they went to hide! Lol. 

*awelcome*, you have the exact same enclosure as I do, lol. It was cool to see your video too. 

Both videos were really helpful to just see with my eyes what everyone seems to be doing. I'm still really afraid to open my culture all the way like *Paul* does, lol. When I was modifying my lid like *awelcome* did, I had my husband tap the flies in the container while I was making the cuts in the top and I was so nervous the whole time, lol. We did good though as a team. :P

I bought a 10 gal aquarium today, it was super cheap and 10 gal isn't too big either. I'm going to set up the aquarium for my guys to grow and get bigger like *Lynn* did and put the layer of damp paper towels down and some plants in there. I'm too exhausted to do everything I need to tonight, so will feed my frogs as I have been, and tomorrow everything will be set up. I will post pictures.  :Smile: 

I also want to try the banana under the paper towel thing to keep the flies attracted to one spot. Seems like a cool idea. 

Thanks EVERYONE for EVERYTHING! Seriously!!

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## Chelspaz

Okay so I tried putting the powder and flies into one cup, rolling them around, and neatly trying to pour them into another container to separate them from the powder and it did NOT work. Lmao! There's still chunks of powder in there. I feel like I have to pick each and every fruit fly out to just get them without the extra powder. Everyone makes this look so easy!!! Lol!

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## awelcome

I keep the cup basically horizontal when going from cup one to cup two and tap and the flies are heavier and moving so they make their way out first.  Some powder goes along, but it's not enough to matter.  It does take a little practice though.

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## awelcome

Paul's were moving so fast and there were so many... was making me nervous too lol.  He has more frogs than I do, so I get that there has to be more flies, but I would definitely want to do stages with that many flies lol.  I also think which supplement you are using makes a difference.... the vitamin supplement doesn't weigh the flies down as much for me as the calcium one.... I like the calcium days (what I used in that video) because they almost stay where I put them entirely.  When using the vitamin supplement they do move a little more, but for some reason, perhaps because it's off the ground, they do stay mostly on that piece of wood I use.

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## Chelspaz

Yea I basically said to hell with doing my usual things with my frogs, I emptied their water bowl thingy (which I will of course refill when feeding is done) and put the powdered flies in there. I guess the thing that sucks is I have one frog down there now feeding and the other 2 are off probably hiding or sleeping. I'm just afraid that in these beginning stages of feeding them like this, that they won't get as much food as they need because they just don't know it's there. :\

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## Paul

They will find food. It also can help to spread the flies out in several places throughout the tank if you have a frog that tends to hide. 

Frogs love to hunt for food. It's sort of their thing. By the time I add flies tomorrow the frogs will have hunted and killed all those stupid flies. If there are some left I just feed less. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Chelspaz

So this is my new enclosure for my froglets while they're growing. 



It's a 10 gal which I believe is good for 3 gray tree frogs to grow. 

I've put some flies in there and again, only one of my guys so far have gotten the memo. It really does concern me that the other 2 may not be getting fed enough, if it all. Ugh. 

When I switched my enclosures I actually had to dig to find my other 2 frogs. They were buried in the substrate. Not sure exactly what that means. I know that they do that in the winter but don't know much more than that. Do they do that when they're really stressed or something? 

Anywho, hopefully soon all 3 of my guys will get on board with this new routine and I don't have to worry for too much longer. 

Thanks again to everyone for their awesome advice and suggestions!

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