# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > Beginner Discussion >  At wits end: First PDF leucs tank false bottom and substrate questions!

## Mariah Ingram

First post here and lots of questions so bear with me.
Here are a couple quick facts. I have a 18x18x24 Exo Terra, I would like to have three D. leucs, I still feel lost in the dark after a good week and a half of doing research, lol.
After some consideration of what I thought would work, and budget. I came to my choice of doing a really simple false bottom. Hydroballs>mesh/substrate separator>Eco earth>sphagnum moss> and leaf litter (ordering soon). I also have a little area in the corner with largish rocks where the water likes to bead and trickle down to the false bottom  for easy access (also have tubing at the back that runs under the bottom so I can siphon out any excess thats too much for my rock access). I will also have a share of live plants which Im still doing copious amounts of research on as I want them to be perfect for my future leucs. My questions are these.
1.     Have I been correct in my false bottom? Ive read so many variations at this point Im losing my mind :P. I want to make sure my little babies will be happy with what Ive arranged.
2.    This is enough room for 3 leucs correct?
3.    Plant suggestions?
4.    What kind of top/lighting will I need poorly lacking in knowledge there.

here are some small poorly taken photos of my attempts so far.
Any and all answers, advice and words of CALM DOWN YOURE FINE are mighty appreciated.

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## DartfrogDan

hi and welcome to the forum
1. I use hydroballs and substrate divider but with ABG mix ontop but it depends on what plants you're having.also using the hydroballs etc isnt called a false bottom,a false bottom is when you use egg crate stood on pipes to to allow the water to stand at the bottom,there are loads of threads regarding the construction of them
2. sorry cant help here but I have my two auratus in an exo terra 60x45x60cm
3.Pothos is great and really hardy,bromeliads,crepping fig ,the list goes on.
4.I have 3 bulbs in my compact top the exo terra 2.0 which is really just for the plants,the 5.0 which emits a bit of heat and uv and finally an exo terra daylight basking spot 25w but i only turn it on if the vivarium is relly cold as it tends to dry it out really quick,so you may not need it depending on how warm the viv gets as you can always use a heat mat or ceramic heater(i've never used the ceramic bulb so cant really give you much advice)
hope this helps

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## Heather

Mariah, hellos and welcome  :Smile: .

Take your time and enjoy your build  :Smile: . This should be fun for you.

I'll make a very short how-to on a false bottom if you'd like. The hydro balls are fine though if you prefer them. The goal is to drain excess water away from the plants so your plants do not die. Basically to avoid creating a bog. 

Here is how to make a false bottom. This is for a 55 gallon, but the technique is the same.

Cut eggcrate to fit bottom of tank. It should fit comfortably, but not so tight that its hard to remove. Leave an access hole for drainage. Use zip ties to connect the sides.


Use PVC to lift the eggcrate about 3" up off the bottom. Just set them evenly under the eggcrate to keep it level.

Get some fiberglass screen meshing and either set it on top of the eggcrate or you can see it on with flushing line. I sewed mine. Make small eggcrate pieces covered in mesh to lay over your access hole(s).


Then add your substrate layers.

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## Mariah Ingram

oh, well that answers a great deal of my questions thank you both!  :Smile:  Although I have a few more so bear with me please. 
So having that eggcrate false bottom isn't completely necessary just an easier way to handle the tank? Also i heard that when you mist the water will build up in the bottom, is there a certain amount I should mist, and how often?

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## Heather

It's an easier way to keep excess water drained. It allows the substrate to get rinsed and drained, rather than having stagnant water, and bacteria and ammonia overload. 

Some people have a hole drained in the glass bottom by a glass cutter to allow drainage. This cannot be done with tempered glass, but can with regular glass. Then you would have a collection device such as a bucket under the hole that you could empty.

I mist enough to keep the humidity at the proper settings for the particular frog living in the vivarium.

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## DartfrogDan

I agree with heather as siphoning is not the nicest thing in the world  :Smile:

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## Carlos

> ...So having that eggcrate false bottom isn't completely necessary just an easier way to handle the tank? Also i heard that when you mist the water will build up in the bottom, is there a certain amount I should mist, and how often?


The eggcrate provides a drainage area from where to remove excess enclosure water.  If not using either the eggcrate (small write up how to build here) or standard sized aquarium undergravel filter plates (like one's made by Lee's), recommend get a small flat aquarium foam filter (made by Lee's and couple other companies).  You can bury the filter in agregate lecca clay balls out of the way and use it's tube for drainage access if required.  Tube holes can be covered with bottle caps or chair tips from hardware store so crickets or feeders do not crawl in.



> I agree with heather as siphoning is not the nicest thing in the world


Always use a clear hose equipped with a starting bulb.  You do not want a mouthful of false bottom juice  :Mad:  !

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## Mariah Ingram

> ...recommend get a small flat aquarium foam filter (made by Lee's and couple other companies).  You can bury the filter in agregate lecca clay balls out of the way and use it's tube for drainage access if required.  Tube holes can be covered with bottle caps or chair tips from hardware store so crickets or feeders do not crawl in.
> 
> Always use a clear hose equipped with a starting bulb.  You do not want a mouthful of false bottom juice  !


Carlos! This is also something I've done, I have it buried in the back with the foam covering the end of the tube- that is clear- it runs out of the tank.  :Smile:  I hadn't thought of the starter bulb though so I'll have to pick one of those up in the near future as I get my set up going on a schedule. I also just made a fogger out of a humidifier so I'll be testing that out as well! Excited for that to be a thing for my little guys  :Smile: 

Thank you to everyone who's been replying and giving advice I love it and appreciate it all.

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## Heather

I actually use a fish tank siphon with a suction bulb  :Wink: , lol!  :Big Grin:

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## Heather

Great job, Mariah! Let me know how your fogger works for you. I've heard of people making these. The water reservoirs are much larger than most diggers and would be nice.

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## Mariah Ingram

so the fogger/humidifer is doing well without me even spraying it's keeping the humidity between 80-90%! I am worried about the accuracy though as I've heard the duel exo terra one for humidity/temp can be off. the temperature is reading between 24-27C and 74-81F. I haven't really heard anything about whether or not the exo terras are good or bad and if my temperature range is okay.

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## Mariah Ingram

finally finished planting. Now I need leaf litter a little more climbing space upwards and ill be finished. How'd I do?


Frogs, fish and soon to be ferrets!

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## Mariah Ingram

Frogs, fish and soon to be ferrets!

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## Carlos

Hi Mariah!  I like what you accomplished, here are a couple comments.  You might want to cover the 2 sides to reduce the possibility of stress in frogs.  Also, would position the sensor closer to level where frogs would inhabit.  Finally (and this might not be an issue as plants grow), maybe the large Bromeliad might look better if traded places with smaller one on the back.  Did you tried that option when setting up vivarium?  Just a thought, and do make sure you want the ferrets, even when de-scented they do smell  :Big Grin:  !

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## Mariah Ingram

Mentat love the suggestions and advice. When I tried to put the larger one in the back it seemed to overtake my fern and geraniums. I just finished it last night so perhaps I'll move them around to try that. I made sure they were all labeled "miniature" on them so I'm not terrified of them getting too large. Bought them all at Hawaiian Botanicals so no chemicals either! I posted my tank somewhere else and they commented and said this particular orchid wouldn't be good in there so I may just take it out giving me a little more room to tweak the things I have. 

I don't know if you can see it as well but I have another temp/humidity gauge down right in front. I heard it was better to have 2 different ones. Still struggling some days with the temp it's getting too high for comfort so I'll be rigging a fan up me thinks. 

I know they're smelly  :Smile:  won't be getting them yet as I don't have space or allowed them in my current building.  :Frown: 


Frogs, fish and soon to be ferrets!

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## bill

it looks as though you have a miniature phaeleanopsis sp. orchid in there. i would definitely agree that it will not like the humid environment that darts prefer. just an fyi, the broms will grow very large as will the diffenbachia. just because they are labeled 'miniature' doesn't mean the plant will stay small. 

the planting looks good, but in my opinion, over planted. i always tell people to plant lightly and allow the plants to grow in. as it is planted now, when it really grows in, you may never see your frogs...lol the begonias you have in the back will grow nicely as long as the soil drains well, they do no like having soaked roots. 

expect the fern to die off a bit at first while it acclimates to the high humidity. and do you know what species fern it is? there are literally less than a handful which stay miniature. 

again, it does look good. you did a great job.  :Smile:

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## Mariah Ingram

how's this? Better?

 

Another view.

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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