# General Topics > General Discussion & News >  Whites shedding problem??? plz help

## illadelfyaEAGLE

I was away last weekend and when i got home i noticed a green blotch on my whites tree frog. My whites is almost always green but this time he was brown. During the next few days he turned green again and the blotch was brown. The temp is 83 during the day, humidity 60-65%. He is moving around and eating. Has anyone seen this before? If it is skin should i try and remove it? i don't want it to get infected or anything.

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## Thomas

Unfortunately I'm not sure what this is, but if this is dead skin, I would try gently spraying him with room temp water to see if it helps loosen it. Sorry I can't offer much help. I wish you the best of luck with your White's.

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## Leefrogs

you need to have Kurt or Paul look at this. Imeadiatley!!!

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

whats the best way to contact them? I private messaged them but got no response.

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## Thomas

Private messages should work. You could also go to their profile page and leave a visitor message. The thing that puzzles me about this spot is that it changes colors. I hope you get everything figured out.

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

The spot is drier then the rest of the frogs skin. I soaked him in a warm water and skin sloughed off, and there was a very tiny amount of blood around the margins of the spot, but almost barely noticeable. I put some neosporin on it

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## Thomas

That's great to hear!

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## wesleybrouwer

Skin burn maybe?
Can it reach the lamps or something?

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

It looked like a skin burn to me too. But my heat lamp is suspended over the top of the terrarium screen. Its only a 50 watt bulb, the temp in the basking area is 83 degrees

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

Some clear skin sloughed off but the brown blotch is still there.

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## Leefrogs

ya,PM should have worked. I've only seem a couple pict of cytrid the skin desease. And was scared for your frog. If it is a burn I'll be more content. Still wish I knew more, heard of treatment with metafix at half streingth. It's a blue teatree oil that used for fish diseases and cuts and control some parasites.   I haven't used this method, and it's not in frog first aide in this site. Would like other peoples opinion. Hint hint, Kurt, Paul, anyone?

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## Kurt

It could be a burn. Does any object that frog comes in contact with get hot? If the frog is eating that's a good sign. Do not use and Neosporin if it has any pain reliever in it ,as this will kill your frog. Just continue what you are doing and if it starts to spread see a vet immediately.  

Good luck

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

I have an XL exo terra terrarium and the UV and heat lamp are set outside the tank above the screen top, so theres no contact there. It certainly looks like necrotic tissue. Today i was closely examining the enclosure and i saw a little black ant. I think its _Monomorium minimum_ according to my Audubon field guide. I have no idea how it got in there. I did recently order moss from black jungle, maybe some hitched a ride. I think they're fairly harmless, but that got me thinking, what if its another insect/spider bite? Maybe i should remove all the substrate and add new stuff. This really has me dumbfounded as i take really good care of my frog. Could it have been a problem shedding where the old skin didn't slough off properly leading to death of the underneath skin?

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

btw, I give him a warm water bath once a day (he hates it) and i've been putting neosporin (the original no painkillers) on the wound. He is still active and has a healthy appetite. I did notice that he does not bask under the heat lamp at his usual spot anymore, instead during the day he's been laying off to the side out of direct heat exposure. i turned the heat lamp off because im guessing the heat is aggravating the wound? Its like 76F without the heat lamp, 83-84F with it on.

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## Leefrogs

just checking back to see how it's going. I hope for the best. Keep us posted on the condition. It helps us learn, and support you. I read somewhere that high temps helps them fight bacterial infections, although this is not the case, maybe heat helps them heal too. Maybe aim light away from his sleeping spot. Good luck  and best wishes

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## Don

My smallest whites has the same mark in the same spot as your pics at the beginning of this thread.  Hes been himself and sometimes its dark and sometimes its lighter colored.  He has not changed his routine and soaks nightly.

I originally though bite mark from one of the larger frogs... or a burn.
I was also thinking he is getting under a lg he is usually near and rubbing his head off it.

Hopefully yours get well soon.

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## wesleybrouwer

That does not look OK at all.
Better let him check with a vet.
Could be an infected wound or something,
guess when i would have this on my back i would be running to the hospital  :EEK!: 
My best bet would be something like a bacterial infected wound, burn or not.
Looking at the edges of the wound, this isn't something that will heal overnight,
it is a nasty flesh wound.
Or the picture must be decieving me.

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## TheBambooGoanna

> That does not look OK at all.
> Better let him check with a vet.
> Could be an infected wound or something,
> guess when i would have this on my back i would be running to the hospital 
> My best bet would be something like a bacterial infected wound, burn or not.
> Looking at the edges of the wound, this isn't something that will heal overnight,
> it is a nasty flesh wound.
> Or the picture must be decieving me.


I agree...it looks like it's a big chunk of skin that's gone. Could he have some how burned that area then shed, taking a few layers of burnt skin with the old layer, leaving that kind of wound?

Is he acting normal and eating alright? If it starts looking worse, find a good herp vet. Otherwise, I would keep an eye on it (and him) and make sure it starts looking better soon.

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

@ Ginger Lee-- yes since they're ectotherms an increase in temp would increase their metabolism and help stave off an infection, however it looks like a mechanical wound. I did move the light away from his basking spot though so the overall temp will be elevated in the tank.

Well its been 2 weeks since i have noticed the blotch, and subsequent necrotic-looking wound. Last night he must have ate 10 small crickets. He doesn't bounce around the terraruim at night like he did before this, but is still active. The wound does not seem to be spreading, in fact it may have shrunk slightly. For those of you with much much more experience then me, if it was fungal/bacterial wouldn't the state of the frog be much worse in two weeks then it is now? 

I will be removing substrate today in an attempt to remove any insects/spiders that may have hitched a ride in. Oh on another note, several weeks ago i added an english  ivy (_Hedera helix_) to the tank, and he seems to love hanging out in it. Does anyone know if the ivy secretes any substance that may irrate the skin? I figured it was safe but along with the moss I ordered from black jungle, this is the only other change i made to the terrarium in recent memory. Again, thank you all for your support. I will keep everyone posted.

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

I just may have figured it out...hopefully. When i disturbed him to get the latest pic, he went and wedged himself (tightly) between the background ( a styrofom rock-like background that came with the exo terra) and the top metal screen. I noticed bright green markings where his skin is in conntact with the screen, much like the very first pic in this thread. Perhaps he wedges himself so tightly that circulation is cut off or maybe just rubbing occurs. Maybe the frogs skin is delicate enough to be effected by this. I blocked the space where he wedges himself with paper towel. We'll see if that helps.

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

This is what im talking about

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## Don

That could be possible, and if the lighting source is close to that and the screen is heating up that would add to the irritation.

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

rotated

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## Don

Here is my littlest one which is having similar issues as yours.  This is new as of today, the discoloration on the right side of photo.  You can see slightly left the one he had prior which was just like this new discoloration.  It usually gets dark colored at night.  What is it I haven't a clue.  Hes not near a light or heat source but could he be rubbing it where he sleeps?

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

Don, that looks incredibly similar to mine, its even in the same location. After the discolored blotch, does it turn into a scabby wound? I'm obvious not familar with amphibian diseases. What do you feed your frogs? I recently fed mine some waxworms to go along with the main staple of crickets. Thats the only thing I can think of food wise that was different from the norm.

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## Don

I basicly feed only gut loaded crickets.  The first discoloration slowly turned dark brown and then almost crusty and then as you can see is almost gone away.  Today is the first time we have seen this as seen on the right side of the picture.

He is exactly himself so its not like its bothering him.  He does soak in a cup every night and the area does stat moist.
Just not sure what it is.

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

hmmm yea its the same thing then. My frog is active and eating just like yours. Only one of your frogs is affected? I only have one whites trre frog and I wanted to go to this herp show being held this weekend to get him a friend but I don't want this to happen to another one if it turns out deadly. How long has this been going on with your frog?

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

I have just noticed that i have some type of mold in my substrate. There is a cluster of small balls, about 0.5mm each surrounded by a halo of white fuzzy mycelium. The clusters are located in the substrate, not on the surface. Don, do you see this type of mold in your terrarium? I dunno what type this is. It could be a harmless decomposer or it may be the culprit.

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## Don

> hmmm yea its the same thing then. My frog is active and eating just like yours. Only one of your frogs is affected? I only have one whites trre frog and I wanted to go to this herp show being held this weekend to get him a friend but I don't want this to happen to another one if it turns out deadly. How long has this been going on with your frog?


I have three larger Whites  :Smile:  as you can view in my photo albums.  None of the other frogs have this and the little one has had this going on for about a month.  I don't feel its an infection and more a wound.

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## Leefrogs

bumping this one up to see how it's going,

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

My frog is acting 100% normal again. He was eating throughout this ordeal but at night he was less active(prob saving energy so he could heal), but last night he was bouncing around the terrarium every which way. To say i'm relieved is an understatement. The wound seems to be healing nicely. Warm water baths and applying neosporin seemed to help. I believe that the wound was caused by him wedging himself tightly against the styrofoam background of my exo terra and the top metal screen. I think that the delicate frog skin sinks into the screen and circulation is cut off and the tissue dies. I believe this because i saw him wedged there a day or two ago and i moved him. When I did I saw the beginings of same green blotch on the other side of the wound where his skin was in conntact with the screen. If any one has an exo terra with this styrofoam backgound and has a treefrog, I would advise them to block the two ledge areas at the top of the tank so the frog can't wedge himself against the screen.I also now i can get him a buddy as i was about to hold off due to the fear it was a bacterial/fungal infection. I didn't want this to happen again.

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## Leefrogs

oh it does look better. more identifiable, like scab instead of a hole. Good to hear. I'd jam that spot with moss or something.  Mine had spots like dons pic, jamming themselves between corner of terrarium and big bamboo, so I had moved it farther away, and haven't seen it since. Like marks when u cross your legs for a while, but frog colored, LOL. I read somewhere they feel temp with bellies not their backs, so that explains why he didn't move soon enough. I hope u get a friend for him and all goes well. Thank u for posting and sharring, I'm also currious on size and known age of yr frog, mine are 21/2 and 3, Petco didn't know how old they were. I don't know when to cut back on calcium and feedings. Thanks in advance

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## Don

Yes, that does look so much better.... I'll post a pic to show you why I think mine was more a burn or irritation...
Also, I don't ave any mold that I see in my substrate so not sure how it gets started,

My Whites like to sleep on the electrical outlet and the littlest one has his head right at the ceramic socket for the bulb... I had to move that but and make this socket not used.

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## illadelfyaEAGLE

Ginger&Lee, my frogs about 3 in. SV. I got him a year ago at petsmart and he was a shade under 2 in. I have no idea the age but i'm guessing he's about 2 yrs old, maybe less (i dunno how fast they grow in the first yr, i've seen some tiny ones at petsmart/petco).Since he's a male (he calls) I'm guessing he's about finished growing. I also read that blue phase whites (the australian sub species) is generally smaller than the indo's. As for feedings, it depends on the size of crickets that are available at the local pet store. For a while now they are fairly small (which isn't bad because the younger crickets have softer bodies, less hard chitin and wings). He'll eat around 4-6 every other day or so. I don't have a rigid feeding regimen really, i mean in the wild i'm sure hunting is hit or miss. I calcium feed once a week. I coat 3 crickets and hand feed as i have moss in the tank and moss is very sensitive to calcium. Recently i fed waxworms as i felt his tympanic ridges weren't robust enough, so he added some weight a bit. 

Oh and Don, thats good news. I think in both our cases that the wounds are mechanical and not disease related, which is certainly a relief

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## Don

My little guy shed the skin on the new mark and it doesn't look swollen.  Looks like it will clear up pretty quickly.
I put in a larger water bowl today hoping the larger frogs don't pack in with the small one in his little cup.  Some reason they will try to pack up to three of them in the cup and forget the water dish.
Amazing how big there Whites can get... local place had one that was 4 times the size of mine and super fat.  He was s cool.

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