# Frogs & Toads > African Bullfrogs >  Hookworms

## Bruce

Well I got Bertha's and Clyde's fecal exams done, as Bertha has been bloating and I can't seem to figure out why.  Both frogs tested positive for hookworms, which was quite unexpected... Clyde seems perfectly fine and rarely come in contact with her, especially since she hasn't seemed well.  Bertha's stool which I sent in was very strange.  It was quite small, and the outer casing was green and very slimy, almost looked like moss had grown on it.  The inside was a red-ish color.  Obviously they do have hookworms, however I feel something more may be going on with Bertha, any thoughts? 
Some recent pics of Bertha.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Well I got Bertha's and Clyde's fecal exams done, as Bertha has been bloating and I can't seem to figure out why.  Both frogs tested positive for hookworms, which was quite unexpected... Clyde seems perfectly fine and rarely come in contact with her, especially since she hasn't seemed well.  Bertha's stool which I sent in was very strange.  It was quite small, and the outer casing was green and very slimy, almost looked like moss had grown on it.  The inside was a red-ish color.  Obviously they do have hookworms, however I feel something more may be going on with Bertha, any thoughts? 
> Some recent pics of Bertha.


Worms can cause bloating and digestion issues. This will probably go away after they are cured of the worms.

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## cyris69

Hmm my girl looks like that very bloated (she does get a bit smaller when not puffed up) but seems fine and very active during feeding. Is there anything I should be concerned with as well? How is this contracted?

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## Locascio

you can treat hookworms with pancure by giveing .1ml pur 100 grams of WT. Do this 2x a week for 2 weeks inject the pray item than feed to your frog ive been useing this stuff for years and it works. you still want your vet to do another fecal exam in a few weeks to make shure its cleared up. i used to work for a hurp vet and this is how you want to go about it.

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## Locascio

from the pics your frogs look really sick i hope you have the money to spend to treat them. :Frown:

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## Bruce

> from the pics your frogs look really sick i hope you have the money to spend to treat them.


Well I only posted Bertha in pics.  She acts normal... Eats fine and soaks normally.  She just seems bloated.  Useless 100%, I only tested him just to be safe, not because anything looked wrong.. I'm also curious though, how could this have been contracted?

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## Bruce

To be honest, I merely thought she was fat this whole time... So I actually cut back on her feeding and when nothing changed that's when I worried.

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## cyris69

I'm also curious how this gets contracted, now its making me wonder about my girl.

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## jfw60

I wonder as well, as my frog is on the bloated side and I do not over feed her. Could this be something they pick up from feeders like crickets or super worms or Dubia?

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## Eric Walker

If never heard of panacur as a liquid.  Only a powder.   Do most vets carry both?  




> you can treat hookworms with pancure by giveing .1ml pur 100 grams of WT. Do this 2x a week for 2 weeks inject the pray item than feed to your frog ive been useing this stuff for years and it works. you still want your vet to do another fecal exam in a few weeks to make shure its cleared up. i used to work for a hurp vet and this is how you want to go about it.

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## Carlos

> .. I'm also curious though, how could this have been contracted?





> I'm also curious how this gets contracted, now its making me wonder about my girl.


Oh those darned parasites... where are they coming from  :Frog Surprise:  ?  Since we got a few minutes while relaxing from lunch... let me tell you a story!  Helminths (parasitic worms) find their way into a host through contaminated food, water, soil, mosquito bites, and even during copulation  :Mad: .  In the case of our frogs; that can mean they had them when wild caught, or the breeder stock was contaminated, or the pet shop or seller stock was contaminated, or one of your stock was contaminated.  Once a frog has intestinal worms (or other enteric parasites) and it's not treated while undergoing quarentine or is added to a collection... those parasites are going to spread!  Even if not kept in same enclosure; your handling and the use of common tools for cleaning and feeding will be enough to spread the nasties around  :Frown: . 

So how come some of your stock shows signs of disease and others don't?  Well, different organisms have different immunity to parasites and other health issues.  A keeper's whole collection could have enteric parasites and the frogs immunity systems would be fighting them nefarious invisible foes successfully; until one day someone is stressed  :EEK!:  !  The health/disease balance would tip over and if not addresssed properly by the keeper in a timely manner, could mean the loss of one or more frogs.




> If never heard of panacur as a liquid.  Only a powder.   Do most vets carry both?


Beleive veterinarians have access to liquid Panacur and many other drugs not available to common public.  Seen also a paste form used for horses too.  Also, form could vary geographically, since pet medications have different control rules in various countries. For the powder form... this is what I do.

Since I treat my own fish (been keeping them over 50 years) kind of developed my own sense on how and why to medicate pets.  When I get a new frog (or fish) it goes into quarentine and nothing is shared with anyone else in colection.  A week after animal is eating in new enclosure (or tank) I go ahead and do a deworming with Panacur.  I buy it either at Petsmart (SafeGuard Canine Dewormer) or similar product at Amazon.  Then I get me some nicely fat and happy night crawlers (Panacur powder sticks to them really well) from my bins. Wear gloves, don't breath or snort stuff, and transfer Panacur powder into sandwich bag (enough to have some leftover in bag when done breading) + Night Crawlers + shake it baby = Panacur breaded night crawlers.  Warning:  if you do speak worm language please wear hearing protection at this stage  :Wink:  . 

OK, now get your plastic tweezers and dangle the worms in front of hungry frog... whack! Please note that for little frogs you might need to cut the night crawlers into mouth sized pieces.  Feed enough "Panacured" night crawlers to satiation for 2 consecutive feeding days and repeat same in 2 weeks.  You are done deworming so have feces tested for parasites a week or two after 2nd treatment. 

Oh wait... OMG I did not weight the Panacur dose?  That's right!  My fish and frogs do not overdose on Panacur when mouth sized food pieces (prawn for fish, night crawlers for frogs) are completely breaded in the powdery stuff and feed to satiation.  Little guys will eat a bit, bigger guys will eat more, so it's like an uncomplicated appetite regulated dosage system.  For liquid dosage you can follow Vince's instructional post. Also, if you go to FF "First Aid" section there are other delivery methods discussed.

Keep your habitats clean, quarentine all new stock, do preventive Panacur treatment on all arrivals; and your frogs should be parasite worm free.  If a frog is infected to point it gets weak and sick it's time for a vet visit; or you risk loosing it. Also, do clean and disinfect the enclosure of an infected frog following 2nd treatment every 2 weeks.  Good luck!

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GrifTheGreat, Heatheranne

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Thank You Carlos!! :Smile: 

Please note that from my understanding Hookworms are difficult to get rid of and you may have to dispose of certain furniture that belongs to your frogs. Driftwood, plants, ect. Anything that these parasites can latch onto and hide. 

Better safe than risking reintroducing the worms to them once more after they're cured by accident.

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Mentat

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## Carlos

> Thank You Carlos!!
> 
> Please note that from my understanding Hookworms are difficult to get rid of and you may have to dispose of certain furniture that belongs to your frogs. Driftwood, plants, ect. Anything that these parasites can latch onto and hide. 
> 
> Better safe than risking reintroducing the worms to them once more after they're cured by accident.


Thanks for adding that  :Big Applause:  ; had no idea the damned nematodes would play hide and seek with us  :Mad:  !  Guess you could boil plastic decor or feeding dishes for 10 minutes and bake rocks at 350 for same amount of time; but driftwood, and live plants would be "kaput." 

Also, would need to wipe down the enclosure good.  I would use an undiluted unscented clorox (gloves and ventilation required!) soaked cellulose sponge and then rinse enclosure well until no smell is left (I do that with infected aquariums).  Then a final wipe down with a sponge soaked in concentrated solution (about 10X) of water conditioner (de-chlorinator).  This clorox sponge bath works well in tanks (glass, silicone sealant, hard plastic) but I would not use it in anything that can absorb it and later leach into frog habitat (i.e. wood).  Good luck!

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## Lija

it looks like Carlos and Grif got you covered, but I'll add some  :Smile: 

vet can make any form that you need, actually vet tech will do that but that is technicality, but panacur in clinics around here is being used only in liquid form :Smile: 

 in general parasites should be dealt with before any problems occur, as when you see that frog is sick it may be too late.
 in a wild all frogs have parasite load, meaning they have the whole population of different parasites. In a healthy, normal frog in a wild those parasites do not present a problem, because the frog is adapted to them, a frog is compensating parasite infestation.

 the problem appears when such a frog is brought in captivity and live in secluded enclosure. The transition process is stressful for a frog, thus its defenses are going down, but worms are still here and present a problem now. For some frogs added stress is not enough to diminish it's adaptability to parasites, thus they're still there but you still see a healthy frog, for now.
 as time goes by parasites produce tons of eggs and offsprings, those are keep accumulating in the enclosure and re-infesting a frog until the population of parasites will reach massive amounts that a frog can't adapt to and you will see a sick frog.
 that is with wild caught individuals, now imagine such parasites will infest captive bred frog that have zero adaptability....

 as Carlos mentioned hookworms are transmitted through environment and by contact, however i disagree with treatment suggestions.

fenbendazole ( panacur) is known for being relatively safe, accurate dosage is recommended for frogs. 

  You need to set up a hospital set up, moist papertowels and a  cheap hide of some sorts that you can throw out after,  paper towels have to be changed every single day, everything that you have in current enclosure you have to bleach out if possible, if not - it should go to the garbage.
 hospital set up needs to be completely disinfected after a few days of starting treatment and repeated a few days after the second dose, a fecal exam should be done a week or so after second dose to make sure a frog is parasites free and can be placed in his permanent home.

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## Devonte's Phat Frogs

Home | Sergeant's - A Trusted Name in Pet Care Products Since 1868 was wondering could i use seagrants roundworm a5t the dollar general i use it for my dogs .you just pull the capsule and theres the powder

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## Bruce

Sounds like I got tons of work ahead of me, since they are both in their own 40 gal long tanks... Sigh.  This is gunna suck!  Not much else I can do though.  Once I get the panicure I'll set up hospital tanks and get to cleaning.  Thanks for the tips guys.  4 year in and never had an issue like this!

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## Lija

Bruce i would suggest to test any other frog you have too, but i think it may be safe to say everybody will have that fun stuff to some extend. 
 believe me i hear you and by the way sometimes I feel like each day i finding something new, like today with my nasutas  :Frown:   that goes completely against anything i though i knew, but comes from very known source that I can't not to trust.... so going to do more digging tomorrow on a subject.
there is so much more to be learned, sometimes i think we'll never get to the bottom of anything.... once you think you're here you go down again.

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## Lija

> Home | Sergeant's - A Trusted Name in Pet Care Products Since 1868 was wondering could i use seagrants roundworm a5t the dollar general i use it for my dogs .you just pull the capsule and theres the powder


 for frogs, as they are way more fragile and sensitive to everything  it is always better to use "clean" product from vet and  proper dosage.

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## Locascio

i get all my frogs tested 3x a year for worms just to be on the safe side but its only becuse i used to work for the vet and he dose all my testing for free its not always what you know but who you know lol. ive never used the powder but it should work just the same. good luck!!!

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## Carlos

> Home | Sergeant's - A Trusted Name in Pet Care Products Since 1868 was wondering could i use seagrants roundworm a5t the dollar general i use it for my dogs .you just pull the capsule and theres the powder


Hi Devonte!  Sargeant's website has 3 products (1 liquid, 1 capsules, 1 chewable) for roundworms in dog section and not one includes the active ingredient in description.  If it's Panacur in same dosage as other products and there are no other differing active ingredients, my thought would be it's OK.

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## Devonte's Phat Frogs

The main ingredient is pipeazine (as Citrate)140mg capsule. If i do it will be in small dosages mix with earthworms for my pyxie  and pac mans

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## Locascio

> Home | Sergeant's - A Trusted Name in Pet Care Products Since 1868 was wondering could i use seagrants roundworm a5t the dollar general i use it for my dogs .you just pull the capsule and theres the powder


dont use that stuff its not safe and it might kill your frog you really need to go to a vet to get the liquid panacur

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## Devonte's Phat Frogs

I dont have a reptile vet in my city

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## Locascio

you really cant be playing around with this stuff. wear talking about useing poison to treat an animal its not to be takein lighty. you cant just use anything yoou get from the store thats ment for dogs and expect it to do the same for your frogs i think its playing with fire and your frogs are the ones that will get burnt  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Locascio

> I dont have a reptile vet in my city


i would be willing to ship you some PM me if its something you might be willing to do

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## Carlos

> The main ingredient is pipeazine (as Citrate)140mg capsule. If i do it will be in small dosages mix with earthworms for my pyxie  and pac mans


That isn't Panacur (Fenbendazole) and I would not use it! You can find the granules at any Petsmart store ( Safe-Guard 4 Canine Dewormers - Health & Wellness - Dog - PetSmart ) or online at Amazon.  That is the stuff I use with my fish and frogs (read post above).  If taking Locascio's nice offer, make sure you follow his direction since Vet products can be more concentrated that over the counter stuff.  Good luck  :Frog Smile:  !

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## Devonte's Phat Frogs

I probably order if all Amazon but for right im good

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## Lija

I'm trying right now very hard not to say anything I will regret........ I'd say polite way - please don't experiment with a frog, not now, not ever!

 go to a vet, any vet, and ask for panacur, every single vet in a city would have it. it is used very widely in every practice for every single animal, just different dosage. Or email Dr. Frye and get exactly what you need  for your frog instead of ordering from amazon or elsewhere. I believe his clinic ships anywhere in US to be delivered in a matter of days.

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## Carlos

> ...it is used very widely in every practice for every single animal, just different dosage. Or email Dr. Frye and get exactly what you need  for your frog instead of ordering from amazon or elsewhere. I believe his clinic ships anywhere in US to be delivered in a matter of days.


Hi Lija!  Tried to find Dr. Frye webpage or email and both forum searches or Google searches turned negative.  Do you have a website address or can provide his full business email?  Also, what is the dosage in the veterinary products you refer to?  Is that the same for liquid version Locascio refered to in his earlier post or do Vet's also have the granular form and in what strength/dosage?  Thank you  :Frog Smile:  !

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## Sherry

Here you go!  :Embarrassment:  Milan Area Animal Hospital, David M. Frye, DVM, Veterinary services in Milan, MI, Home page

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Mentat

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## Lija

> Also, what is the dosage in the veterinary products you refer to?  Is that the same for liquid version Locascio refered to in his earlier post or do Vet's also have the granular form and in what strength/dosage?  Thank you  !


dosage is 50mg/kg then it is math: weight of a frog in grams x 0.0005 ( 50mg/kg) = panacur dose for your frog.
 if liquid you need to know how much of actual meds are in there ( mg/ml) and recalculate accordingly. 

 repeat treatment for 3-5 days and after 14-21 day. some vets prefer however use single dosage and then repeat in 7 days. 

 note - all of the above doesn't replace a vet visit or advise.

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Mentat

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## Carlos

Since the parasite we are talking about is frog hookworms (a nematode) I was wondering what is it's life cycle?  In particular; how long will it take for hookworm eggs to hatch once laid in feces, can they go dormant and for how long, and how long after eggs hatch will the larvae survive without a host?  

My train of thought is as follows.  Once you know the life cycle of a parasite, you can apply the medication at the right time and interval. There is a variation of dosage intervals across the board from what I read. With fish you have to hit the nematodes once a week for 4 consecutive weeks and that is independent of medication or it's dosage; it's based on fish nematodes life cycles.  So what is the correct one for frogs  :Confused:  ?

I did search in the net, but did not found the answer needed to go forward, so will try to search in the EDU domains next week.  Would appreciate if anyone has any info to share about the frog hookworm life cycle, thank you  :Frog Smile:  !

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## Carlos

Found some more hookworm information; but first want to ask Bruce how are Bertha and Clyde'?  By the way Bruce, if my hookworm discussion feels the smallest bit of derailment to you, just let me know and I'll start another thread.  One thing to point out is to make sure and wear gloves when handling cleaning duties with those guys, reason follows.  

Reading on subject found out that some species of pet hookworms can infect humans.  So then visited the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) page and got me some hookworm life cycle info  :Big Grin:  .  Although the pets mentioned are dogs and cats; nematodes are nematodes and the numbers do match the current veterinary practice being passed around for frogs.

So... after wondering who came in first (the egg or the nematode  :EEK!:  ) decided to start with the egg.  No seriously... I can get lost thinking about who came first... the egg or the egg layer... crazy  :Cool:  .  Anyways, back to nematodes!  So the eggs get laid inside our frogs' intestinal track and are passed in the frog stool.  Then under favorable conditions (moisture, warmth, shade) which we provide in our habitats; the larvae hatch in 1 to 2 days.  The released early stage larvae (rhabditiform) then grows and molts once in the feces and/or the soil.   After 5 to 10 days (and two molts) they become filariform (third-stage) larvae that are infective.  These infective larvae can survive 3 to 4 weeks in favorable environmental conditions.  At this time those larvae can reinfect our frogs or maybe also us depending on the species (at least dog hookworms can).  The larvae reach the small intestine, where they reside and mature into adults.  Adult worms live in the lumen of the small intestine, where they attach to the intestinal wall with resultant blood loss by the host.  Most adult worms are eliminated in 1 to 2 years, but the longevity may reach several years.

OK, so from the above we got that the adult worms can live several years; that infected feces should be removed (with substrate around them) ASAP before they hatch.  Also, after treatment, we should clean habitat, and retreat (in 2, 5, 10 days, 3 weeks and 4 weeks).  Now that is a lots of treatments and habitat cleaning!  OK, lets deal with cleaning first!  From the above it's easy to see where the "hospital habitat" is of great value.  Take all decor out, sterilize what you can and dispose of what you can't.  Then keep frogs in humid paper towels disposed of every day for length of treatment.  

And here is where the Vet available treatments become superior! A vet can give the frog a more concentrated treatment that will wipe out all the intestinal nematodes at once.  They repeat that in 7 days and you are done!  Note that a frog with a large number of hookworms suddenly dying inside could go into septic shock.  Doing this kind of treatment at home is a big risk and not recommended.

The second alternative is to use the off the shelf Panacur and then treat on day 1, 3-5, 7, 14, and 21. This schedule is twice as long as previous one and I would observe frogs in hospital set-up to ensure they do not stress out too much.  If so; you could add substrate on day 7; but then would have to dispose of it on day 14 and sterilize habitat again, and repeat on day 21.  So not as convenient as with veterinary treatment; but maybe it's the only choice available to some of us.  Done correctly the results should be the same and your frogs will be rid of nematodes and any other present worms (as long as you do not re-introduce them).

As you see, this is not a simple parasite to eradicate and something to undertake without testing your frog feces first.  Nematodes are very sneaky and hard to get rid off.  From looking at some of the treatment schedules available in forum, appear some hobbyists just do a periodic treatment to flush parasites off frog without dealing with enclosure. If frog gets reinfected (and it will); in a few months time (and hopefully before parasite population becomes a problem) they will retreat and flush again.  I prefer to get rid of the evil nematodes once and for all  :AR15: !

If interested in reading more about hookworms and human infection here is link to CDC: CDC - Zoonotic Hookworm .  Have a nice weekend and good luck  :Frog Smile:  !

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## Bruce

Hello all, panacure came from Dr. Frye yesterday, quarantined and treated Bertha, Clyde will be tonight.  I do plan on treating the rest but I have to do these two first, I really don't have the room for more tanks  :Frown:  
She seems so unhappy on paper towels  :Frown:  she's happiest dug into her eco earth watching everything...

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## Bruce

Also... He gave me 4 little baggies per frog.  Said to give one bag a week for 4 weeks.  For instance, every Sunday treat them. 
Now. There's really isn't a lot of panacure in each bag, only enough to cover one night crawler, that's it.  Will this be enough, or should I treat more often and get more over the counter?

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## Carlos

> Also... He gave me 4 little baggies per frog.  Said to give one bag a week for 4 weeks.  For instance, every Sunday treat them. 
> Now. There's really isn't a lot of panacure in each bag, only enough to cover one night crawler, that's it.  Will this be enough, or should I treat more often and get more over the counter?


Cool news Bruce!  I would treat with exactly what he gave you and follow his directions to the letter.  Awesome that he stated a 4 week schedule because that is what I plan to use next time around (day 1, 7, 14, 21).  Do make sure that you do not miss any of those treatments; because then a generation of hookworms could survive and reinfect your frog.  Good luck and hope your frogs are free of hookworms soon  :Frog Smile:  !

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## Eridu Serpent

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!! Just reading these posts makes me feel icky!

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## daltar08

These frogs are like our children, when you take on an exotic pet you take on the responsibility to care for it and give it an environment that is natural and comfortable as well as the responsibility to take care of it in case it becomes ill. I am glad to see the majority of the people here living by this sort of code. I am also even happier to see people willing to help out other members. Sorry just needed to say that. also do you recommend getting frogs fecal samples tested once in Awhile?

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## Bruce

> also do you recommend getting frogs fecal samples tested once in Awhile?


After my experience, absolutely.

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## Bruce

Well Bertha and use have both finished their panacure.  Bertha looks no different, with the exception if white, mucusy stools which I'm assuming is the hookworms being expelled.  Clyde has had no change, either in appearance, attitude, or stools.  I've put Bertha back in her normal set up as of tonight.  She seems happy to just finally be able to dig down again... Maybe she's just actually THAT fat?

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## Bruce

Also, all she seems to want to eat is superworms, and I can't break her of this...

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## Carlos

> Hello all, panacure came from Dr. Frye yesterday, quarantined and treated Bertha, Clyde will be tonight.  I do plan on treating the rest but I have to do these two first, I really don't have the room for more tanks  ...





> Also... He gave me 4 little baggies per frog.  Said to give one bag a week for 4 weeks.  For instance, every Sunday treat them. ...





> Well Bertha and use have both finished their panacure.  Bertha looks no different, with the exception if white, mucusy stools which I'm assuming is the hookworms being expelled.  Clyde has had no change, either in appearance, attitude, or stools.  I've put Bertha back in her normal set up as of tonight.  She seems happy to just finally be able to dig down again... Maybe she's just actually THAT fat? ...


Hi Bruce!  I'm confused about their treatment.  Two weeks ago you posted Dr. Frye provided four weekly Panacure treatments and two weeks after you report treatment is done  :Confused:  ?

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## Bruce

> Hi Bruce!  I'm confused about their treatment.  Two weeks ago you posted Dr. Frye provided four weekly Panacure treatments and two weeks after you report treatment is done  ?


I had started a bit before I posted  :Wink:  lol sorry for the confusion!

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## Colleen/Jerrod

She does look pretty hefty! Does she seem like she is in any discomfort? Possible fluid build up?

Get her some Hornworms and when she eats one make the next item a Night Crawler. Sometimes you can trick them into eating what you want them to eat this way. They will usually strike without thinking.

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## Bruce

> She does look pretty hefty! Does she seem like she is in any discomfort? Possible fluid build up?
> 
> Get her some Hornworms and when she eats one make the next item a Night Crawler. Sometimes you can trick them into eating what you want them to eat this way. They will usually strike without thinking.


Oldest trick in the book Griff  :Wink:  lol I've already tried it, she either completely spits them out, or stops eating all together after one.  She's just a very picky frog!  

And that's the weird thing... She doesn't seem to be in discomfort all the time, however when she tries to pee (pushing), nothing comes out, no matter how many times she tries.  Sometimes one big gush will come out on the first push but that's it.  Besides those moments, she seems perfectly fine, just a picky eater...

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## Lija

lol yeah some of them are just stubborn, mine would eat crickets only with occasional nighcrawler, but only from the water bowl and i guess the moon needs to be in right position lol

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