# General Topics > General Discussion & News > Forum Questions & Workings >  Need advice to save frogs

## bluechip

I live in W. Michigan and a few miles from my home is a DNR owned 80-100 acre walleye (fish) rearing pond. It is empty most of the year and is filled from a close by river once a year to raise walleye young. At this moment the pond is filling, which takes a few days and walleye young are raised in it. The problem is, it is also a breeding area for frogs. Unfortunetly in a month or so, the DNR drains it to harvest to fish. Last year my wife and I took our dog for a walk and the pond was empty other than many dried up or drying puddles. In just about all the dried up or drying puddles there were large tadpoles in such great numbers that they covered the ground completely. When the time comes this year to drain again, the tens of thousands of tadpoles will again not have legs yet and be left to die. I'm going to try and talk to DNR officials, but they probably won't alter their schedule to save the frogs. My only other chioce will to monitor the timing on them draining the pond and try to get friends together and net or pick as many as possible to relocate. If this were a minor kill I probably wouldn't feel the need to act, but the number of dead tadpoles will (again) probably equal a football field size area covered so thick as to not be able to see the ground. Does anyone know of an agency that could over-ride the DNR and prevent this? Or any other advice?

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## missclick

wow thats horrible.
I dont know of any agencies but maybe you could try calling the fish company, maybe try to convince them not to completely drain the tanks for a couple more weeks

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## Kurt

First, the species must be identified. Second, once identified, it must be either protected by the state or by the Federal Government. Looking at the Michigan DNR web site the only amphibians the state considers to be endangers are _Ambystoma opacum_ and_ Ambystoma texanum_. _Acris crepitans blanchardi_ is considered threatened. So if you could find the larva or tadpoles of these three species in this pond, you could possibly shut this operation down. 
Also, if _Clemmys guttata_ and _Nerodia erythogaster neglecta_ were fond in the pond, they too would shut it down.

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## Deku

> First, the species must be identified. Second, once identified, it must be either protected by the state or by the Federal Government. Looking at the Michigan DNR web site the only amphibians the state considers to be endangers are _Ambystoma opacum_ and_ Ambystoma texanum_. _Acris crepitans blanchardi_ is considered threatened. So if you could find the larva or tadpoles of these three species in this pond, you could possibly shut this operation down. 
> Also, if _Clemmys guttata_ and _Nerodia erythogaster neglecta_ were fond in the pond, they too would shut it down.


isnt clemmys guttata a spottted turtle?

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## Deku

If they dont shut it down. Just tresspass without getting caught. Keypoint :Big Grin: on't get caught. :P And take with you tons and tons of jars fill with fresh clean river water. Get the tadpoles. As many as you can, rear them in your own pond. Or get  akiddy pool->20bucks. Rear them there. Make sure to cover the pool with mesh or something of the sort to keep out predators. Use a pond filter. But make sure it isnt strong. Put sand in as the bottom. Get plants like anachris and other plants found near you that they would eat. Fill it up with pond water. Get fake lilly pads so they can get out when they metamorph. If you have bullfrog tadpoles. Don't worry much about them. As much as I dont want to say this. But theres too many bullfrogs in the wild. So it doesnt matter. Focus on frogs like treefrogs, toads(especially toads), wood frogs, etc. If you STILL want to grow the bullfrog tadpoles. then get a large 55gallon rubbermaid. Set it up like a fishtank. Use pond water, plants and everything and wait till they mature, then release them. Make sure not to use a strong filter. Tadpoles are poor swimmers. I would add tons of air stones though on the sides. Because it adds alot of oxygen to the tank. So get a hang on filter made for 100gallons. And voila. You should add live plants, drop in a few algea waffers every 2-3days. I would add tropical fish flakes and goldfish flakes every 2days. To make sure they are well fed. Or you can make suspended gels made purely out of veggies. Like carrots, kale, mustard greens, asparagus, fruits, etc. Make sure  it doesnt have enzymes. Put it on the blender for liquid. Then mix it up with tasteless, colorless, transparent jello. Put in freezer. Then drop in a few cubes every 2days.

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## bshmerlie

If DNR is unwilling to leave some water in the pond for the tadpoles to develop enough I would first verify visually that there are tadpoles there this year and then contact the news media (ABC- NBC- CBS- Discovery Channel) anyone and everyone who will cover your story.  That will put public pressure on them to do something, ie, "save the frogs".  Bring up the fact that amphibian populations world wide are on a massive decline due to habitat destruction such as this.  But please check first that this is not some invasive species of frog or toad that shouldn't be in your state in the first place.  Then they would be seen as the heroes.

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## Kurt

> isnt clemmys guttata a spottted turtle?


Yes, Clemmys guttata is the spotted turtle.

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## bshmerlie

Or yes...you could do as Kevin suggested and raise tens of thousands of frogs in your backyard.  Call me your done I would like to see this.

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## bluechip

Thanks for the quick reply guys! The draining is probably about a month away, so plenty of time to think about this one. All the water is pumped into the pond from a river that is about 100 yds away. The water passes through a large screened box to keep out predator fish such as bass, bluegill, pike and such. This makes an ideal, predator free area for the tadpoles, except herons or other wading birds. A walk along the grassy banks of the pond at this moment shows a lot of bullfrogs and leopard frogs (sorry, my latin isn't that great!), but I'll go as far as saying they are rana-something or other. I would think that the adults that are spawning in the pond now are easier to identify than newly hatched tadpoles, so possibly a close examination at this time might reveal the species involved. What I'm gathering here is, if they are common bullfrogs and brown and green leopard frogs, no agency will show much sympathy. I'll take a close look this weekend and see what adults may be found.
Thanks to all

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## bshmerlie

If I'm not mistaken the Bull frog and the leopard frogs are the ones used for "frog legs".  Perhaps if you informed the fishing company that they have two sources of income in this one pond at least the frogs would not go to waste.  America is one of the largest importers of frog legs in the world.  They have tried frog farming in various southern states maybe your pond would be a good source.  That fishing company could even sell the use of that pond to a frog leg company.  Large companies often think with their profits and that is sometimes the best motivating factor.

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## Deku

If its bullfrogs probably not. But here is what you can do. 

Dress as a ninja. 
Go over there and collect as many as possible
Bolt right out of there
Get your own indoor 55g tank oe outdoor 55g rubbermaid tub 
Set it up nicely.
Then after two years release somewhere else and keep one if you want(Bullfroglets)
While each year you can keep adding more. Or what you can do is, keep em, then sell em to people who like bullfrogs. :P

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## bluechip

I mentioned the problem to a friend a bit ago and he had a suggestion that sounds good. I'll see if the DNR will simply refill the pond with a foot or two of water at the end of their fish harvesting. The DNR will probably have some reason not to do it, but it's worth a try.

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## Deku

> I mentioned the problem to a friend a bit ago and he had a suggestion that sounds good. I'll see if the DNR will simply refill the pond with a foot or two of water at the end of their fish harvesting. The DNR will probably have some reason not to do it, but it's worth a try.


Dude, just collect the froggies. Because should they deny your request atleast you can save some.

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## bluechip

This years problem with the DNR letting their lake dry up and kill the tadpoles before they develope enough to leave worked itself out due to heavy rains. As soon as the DNR let the water out, leaving only many puddles to dry out, heavy rain put close to a foot of water back in the lake. I visited it yesterday and it was full of nearly developed tadpoles. Next year will be another problem that I'll monitor. Thanks to all for the input!

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