# Frogs & Toads > Frogs >  What Was I Thinking?!

## Raven

I got myself into a heckuva mess a few days ago. My boyfriend wanted to empty out an old boat full of rainwater to dispose of it. You probably already see where this is going. This is mid-October and there were tadpoles in it. Most of 'em didn't even have legs yet. It's been a weird season here in Indiana. Didn't figure they stood a chance with it being so late in the season. So, I told him that I wouldn't mind saving a few of 'em because it's likely to frost at any time. Now my definition of "a few" is like ... five or less. He comes back to me with a Tupperware container holding about forty! Maybe more.  :Frog Surprise:  And a half dozen aquatic snails. He'd already dumped the boat. *sigh*


These are most likely leopard frogs. ??? They leap out in front of him when he mows his lawn. They're getting scarce these days. What could I do? Luckily Pet Smart had an aquarium sale of $1 per gallon. I picked up a 40 gallon tank, gravel, an expensive fake log and cheap plants. Already had an extra basking light setup and a water filter on hand. Oh yeah - I also purchased a hinged screen cover and locks! 


After I covered the bottom with gravel, I built up a high area by covering a small plastic crate with substrate mesh and then artificial moss cloth. I arranged flat rocks in a step formation to hold all of that in place and created additional pebble slopes leading up to the terrestrial area. The maximum water depth is about five inches. The land area can be extended much wider when I have froglets. These are gonna have to live in my home until spring when I can release them in one or two of the horsetail swamps down by my large creek. 


For now they seem happy. No casualties yet. They are eating boiled spinach, algae pellets, freeze-dried blood worms and fish food like it's going out of style. Gonna need to increase my cricket culture!! I imagine that tiny/small crickets, fruit flies, isopods, and small phoenix worms will do at first. Right?  :Confused:  Worms and larger crickets for later.


Anyhow - here's what it looks like. All of the plants are fake except for the leaves and duck weed. The split log is elm. I think that should be safe. Any feedback or advice would be appreciated! How did I do? I'm in *sooo much trouble.* HELP!!  :EEK!: 


*Front view*


*Aerial view
*

*Right side views*






*Left side view (filter hidden behind plant)
*

*Miscellaneous (two with hind legs and an aquatic snail)
*

----------

Cliygh and Mia 2, jasonm96

----------


## Jason

Hey!

In a large tank the frogs may have a hard hard time catching the insects before supplements wear off and this is why breeders raise froglets in small tanks. This can be combated by gutloading the insects with a good diet consisting of a commercial gutload and fresh veg and fruit mixed with calcium, which should ensure they'll still get some nutrients should this happen. It's probably also best to feed in smaller amounts several times a day. You might want to use a 5% UVB with these guys as well, since they're heliotherms they get vitamin D from the sun like a reptile would whilst basking. 

Good luck and keep us updated  :Smile:

----------

joonojoonho, Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

Thanks! Good to know about the 5% UVB. I always gutload and feed my crickets produce. They, (and all of my other feeders) are sprinkled with calcium and multivitamin powder. Really don't know how all of this will turn out. I _could_ pick up small tanks for the froglets. This is gonna be like a 3-ring circus!!

----------


## elly

Once they lose their tails they'll be hungry. It might not be a bad idea to release them then. Either that or get more fruitfly kits than you think you'll use.

----------


## Jason

I think you should be fine with the tank you've got then, I wouldn't bother  :Smile:

----------


## Raven

> Once they lose their tails they'll be hungry. It might not be a bad idea to release them then. Either that or get more fruitfly kits than you think you'll use.


Elly, by the time they lose their tails, we'll probably be into November. There would be no outdoor bugs. We could well be snow covered. I dunno if they'd have enough reserves to go into hibernation. I think I'm stuck. Anyone want free froglets? LOL

----------

elly

----------


## Marinecrab

That's a very nice setup, does it come with the froglets?

I live in Florida so its pretty warm all round.

----------

Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

> That's a very nice setup, does it come with the froglets?
> 
> I live in Florida so its pretty warm all round.


LOL! I think it would take a crane to lift it. That tank is 36L x 18W x 24H. It's a beast. Imagine what the shipping would be!  :EEK!:

----------


## Marinecrab

> LOL! I think it would take a crane to lift it. That tank is 36L x 18W x 24H. It's a beast. Imagine what the shipping would be!


I can just drive my forklift across the states!


Haha, I only kid. Again, beautiful setup.

----------

Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

> I can just drive my forklift across the states!
> 
> 
> Haha, I only kid. Again, beautiful setup.


Yeah - I knew ya were kiddin'. But, thank you. I only hope that _they_ like it. Dunno for sure. They aren't swimming around foraging like maniacs today. In fact ... they are being pretty darned sedate. This could mean any number of different things (I think):

A - They've calmed down and are getting accustomed to the paparazzi.
B - They don't like the way that I cook spinach.
C - They've eaten so much that they aren't as hungry.
D - They've eaten too much and aren't feeling well. I sure hope it isn't this one. I've been giving them three small meals a day. Don't wanna foul the tank too much.

It seems to me that, in their natural state, tadpoles don't move around a whole heckuva lot unless they are freaked out or hungry. Hopefully they have just calmed down and making themselves at home secure that they are now safe from raccoons and don't have to worry about where their next meal is coming from.

----------


## Marinecrab

I can't imagine any semi-aquatic frog species that'd hate that setup, if you find one that does let me know so I can slap him into reality. I had the same experience with tadpoles as you are currently, found them in an old fishtank we had sitting outside during the rain season here in florida and it was full of large tadpoles, Girlfriend pulled the "But they're so cute, please" with puppy eyes and we decided to keep them during the hurricane, after about a day or so of keeping them my girlfriend stated that they didn't move around as much and it started to worry her, just keep it up, try lettuce too tear it into tiny bits and let it fload, i've heard about people using algea waffers, but i've never tried. Between you and me I think it really all depends on the type of frog/toad.

----------

Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

> I can't imagine any semi-aquatic frog species that'd hate that setup, if you find one that does let me know so I can slap him into reality. I had the same experience with tadpoles as you are currently, found them in an old fishtank we had sitting outside during the rain season here in florida and it was full of large tadpoles, Girlfriend pulled the "But they're so cute, please" with puppy eyes and we decided to keep them during the hurricane, after about a day or so of keeping them my girlfriend stated that they didn't move around as much and it started to worry her, just keep it up, try lettuce too tear it into tiny bits and let it fload, i've heard about people using algea waffers, but i've never tried. Between you and me I think it really all depends on the type of frog/toad.


I got a chuckle out of the "But they're so cute, please"!! Made me giggle.  :Highly Amused:  Good idea with the lettuce. I just gave them some. They like the algae wafers. However, my boyfriend and I are going down to the creek today to collect a few rocks with growing algae in the area where the wild leopard frogs hang out. I also procured some pelleted tadpole food. The jury is still out on that stuff. I added a small floating lily pad to the tank yesterday. Who knew that some tadpoles could be so expensive!  :Chargrined:

----------


## herpdoc

These guys look like some sort of tree frog tadpole (could be a Green Tree Frog, especially since they tend to breed later in the summer). If you look closely the ends of the developing feet look a little rounded which suggests this. the big trouble is feeding them when they morph (you can start off with flightless fruit flies (make sure your tank can close tightly) and then pinhead crickets.

----------

Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

> These guys look like some sort of tree frog tadpole (could be a Green Tree Frog, especially since they tend to breed later in the summer). If you look closely the ends of the developing feet look a little rounded which suggests this. the big trouble is feeding them when they morph (you can start off with flightless fruit flies (make sure your tank can close tightly) and then pinhead crickets.


Could be tree frogs. I know that we have grays in the area. Never saw greens, but that doesn't mean they aren't here. The only times that I see tree frogs is when they paste themselves to my picture windows to collect night flying insects. I usually have three at a time patrolling each window until the weather cools. I've got three large fruit fly cultures going/producing, and the media to produce much more. I also raise pinheads but am ramping up production. Yer right: they are no trouble right now. The real trouble comes when they morph. Eek!

Now about preventing fruit fly escape: How do I do this?  :Confused:  I won't be able to lift a 36 x 18 sheet of glass as a topper. What I have now is a hinged screen cover. Anyone tried "Bug Blade"? I got it from Josh's. It's supposed to form a barrier that small insects can't cross. ??? So far it's been keeping the fruit flies from escaping my mantis terrarium. But it's a diatomaceous earth powder that would be difficult to apply to the inner rim of a huge tank. Hard to keep in place too. Any thoughts on a thin barrier of petroleum jelly around the inside inner rim? Sure could use some opinions.

----------


## herpdoc

When I used to rear wood frogs from tadpoles (these are the smallest froglets I've dealt with), I put the froglets in a tupperware container with a few small holes with fruit flies. The froglets then go to town and usually finish eating within 10-15min. I then put them back in the tank. Alternatively, I think pinheads would probably be ok and this would be the easiest step.

----------

Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

> When I used to rear wood frogs from tadpoles (these are the smallest froglets I've dealt with), I put the froglets in a tupperware container with a few small holes with fruit flies. The froglets then go to town and usually finish eating within 10-15min. I then put them back in the tank. Alternatively, I think pinheads would probably be ok and this would be the easiest step.


Excellent! That sounds like a great way to deal with the fruit fly issue. That is a lot of frogs to wrangle though. I'll also be using pinheads and x-tra small phoenix worms. Those would be okay in the tank since they can't climb. Just didn't know how to handle the fruit flies. Thank you!

----------


## herpdoc

Regarding how to get the fruitflies in the container, I would encourage them to come near the top of the jar where I kept them and then quickly open and then tap some into the frog feeding container then quickly close up both containers. You have to be quick and accept that a few fruitflies will get loose. Hopefully these are the mutated flightless type.

----------

Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

> Regarding how to get the fruitflies in the container, I would encourage them to come near the top of the jar where I kept them and then quickly open and then tap some into the frog feeding container then quickly close up both containers. You have to be quick and accept that a few fruitflies will get loose. Hopefully these are the mutated flightless type.


Oh yeah - these are the flightless types. Both melanogaster and hydei. I feed the melanogasters to my dead leaf mantis nymph and use much the same procedure as you described. A slippery funnel makes it easier for me. So does putting the culture in the fridge for 5 minutes beforehand. Slows those puppies down a bit! But not for long. Those escapees are swept up by the edge of a piece of paper before they can get too far.

----------


## Marinecrab

Wish I could give you advice, but we were lucky enough to not have tree frog tadpoles, just Florida Southern Toads. But yes, its funny how even the most cheapest species of frog can end up costing you hundreds I feel like that's the catch, having you spend more money at their stor I have Four Fire bellied toads, my girlfriend named them all. They all cost 7.15 per frog and ended up costing me more than $400, the main cost was the gravel and decorations. We actually picked up the 55 gallon tank with its stand and screen for 55 bucks at our local family owned petstore, was great and looks great. We plan on adopting the last Fire Bellied this weekend.

Excited to see how it goes and I will check up on this thread every day or two!

----------

Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

> Wish I could give you advice, but we were lucky enough to not have tree frog tadpoles, just Florida Southern Toads. But yes, its funny how even the most cheapest species of frog can end up costing you hundreds I feel like that's the catch, having you spend more money at their stor I have Four Fire bellied toads, my girlfriend named them all. They all cost 7.15 per frog and ended up costing me more than $400, the main cost was the gravel and decorations. We actually picked up the 55 gallon tank with its stand and screen for 55 bucks at our local family owned petstore, was great and looks great. We plan on adopting the last Fire Bellied this weekend.
> 
> Excited to see how it goes and I will check up on this thread every day or two!


Fire Bellied Toads are a riot to watch. I have four as well (all named - LOL!). They didn't cost me as much as yours. Picked up a $5 used aquarium at Goodwill complete with light strip and filter. That setup was turned into a paludarium complete with two green cory cats and a couple minnows to clean up the watery world beneath. The most expensive parts were the screen cover and locks. Those little devils are escape artists! Good luck with your new FBT this weekend.  :Smile: 

The Tadpole Team still seems to be thriving. My boyfriend and I collected algae covered rocks this last weekend. I added them to the setup, and the tadpoles are munching away. There are faint bulges where the front legs will appear on some of them. Still no casualties. A water change is due today. I have to wonder about some of the tadpoles that are so much smaller. A different species perhaps? We shall see ...

----------


## Marinecrab

> Fire Bellied Toads are a riot to watch. I have four as well (all named - LOL!). They didn't cost me as much as yours. Picked up a $5 used aquarium at Goodwill complete with light strip and filter. That setup was turned into a paludarium complete with two green cory cats and a couple minnows to clean up the watery world beneath. The most expensive parts were the screen cover and locks. Those little devils are escape artists! Good luck with your new FBT this weekend. 
> 
> The Tadpole Team still seems to be thriving. My boyfriend and I collected algae covered rocks this last weekend. I added them to the setup, and the tadpoles are munching away. There are faint bulges where the front legs will appear on some of them. Still no casualties. A water change is due today. I have to wonder about some of the tadpoles that are so much smaller. A different species perhaps? We shall see ...




Thank you and hah, we picked up the tank, stand and screen for only 55 bucks I looked it up and find out that it was originally 500 bucks brand new so i'm pretty happy. I'm really excited to adopt and rescue that fire bellied toad from the perils of a 6 year old child. We're thinking about adopting the chubby White treefrog from the store since he's a loner too. Might set him up into the verticle tank I had originally for the toads when I was a beginner, once I do some research.

----------

Wood Nymph

----------


## Marinecrab

> Fire Bellied Toads are a riot to watch. I have four as well (all named - LOL!). They didn't cost me as much as yours. Picked up a $5 used aquarium at Goodwill complete with light strip and filter. That setup was turned into a paludarium complete with two green cory cats and a couple minnows to clean up the watery world beneath. The most expensive parts were the screen cover and locks. Those little devils are escape artists! Good luck with your new FBT this weekend. 
> 
> The Tadpole Team still seems to be thriving. My boyfriend and I collected algae covered rocks this last weekend. I added them to the setup, and the tadpoles are munching away. There are faint bulges where the front legs will appear on some of them. Still no casualties. A water change is due today. I have to wonder about some of the tadpoles that are so much smaller. A different species perhaps? We shall see ...




That's great news, and yes. They are escape artists, we had a casualty due to one escaping in the middle of the night only to find him shrivled up. We fixed that problem now of course.

----------


## Marinecrab

> Fire Bellied Toads are a riot to watch. I have four as well (all named - LOL!). They didn't cost me as much as yours. Picked up a $5 used aquarium at Goodwill complete with light strip and filter. That setup was turned into a paludarium complete with two green cory cats and a couple minnows to clean up the watery world beneath. The most expensive parts were the screen cover and locks. Those little devils are escape artists! Good luck with your new FBT this weekend. 
> 
> The Tadpole Team still seems to be thriving. My boyfriend and I collected algae covered rocks this last weekend. I added them to the setup, and the tadpoles are munching away. There are faint bulges where the front legs will appear on some of them. Still no casualties. A water change is due today. I have to wonder about some of the tadpoles that are so much smaller. A different species perhaps? We shall see ...



We just adopted the Tree frog, he's a very calm chubby fellow, Girlfriend name him Opal.

----------

Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

> That's great news, and yes. They are escape artists, we had a casualty due to one escaping in the middle of the night only to find him shrivled up. We fixed that problem now of course.


Yup. I had one escape as well. Still haven't found it. It's a goner for sure by now. That paludarium is well locked now. That was "Moe" of the Eenie, Meanie, Miney, and Moe team. Then there was no Moe. I replaced him with New Moe. I'm such a dork.  :Embarrassment:

----------


## Raven

> We just adopted the Tree frog, he's a very calm chubby fellow, Girlfriend name him Opal.


Glad you got the White's. Is it your first? I have five and they are almost as much fun to watch as the fire belly crew.

Okay! Here's an update:

Things have been happening rather rapidly in the tadpole tank. On Friday, I had two froglets pasted to the glass and more changing. By Sunday, I had two full-fledged frogs! Here are some pics:

*On Friday*




*Sunday!* 







Looks like herpdoc was right: green tree frogs. Yer good!!  :Smile:  I have a cup that I fill with fruit that maintains the attention of the flightless fruit flies for the frogs. But just for sure, I laid a line of diatomaceous earth along the upper lip of the aquarium. Next up will be pinhead crickets.

Since I last posted, I've done quite a bit of research. It seems that tadpoles can go into hibernation if they are in good health. So, I picked out the least developed of the whole mess. They were released in the spring that feeds a huge equisetum (horsetail) swamp alongside the creek that runs through the forest on my property. That leaves me with 8 - 10 (???) rapidly developing tadpoles, froglets, and frogs. That is a manageable number to feed and care for until release in the springtime. Sure hope the released tadpoles will be okay. Next step will be to enlarge the terrestrial area of the tank.

 
*Their new home
*







For scale: My creek is 20 to 30 feet wide.

----------


## Raven

It's been a week full of changes. In addition to adding the rocks from my creek that had natural algae, the tadpole tank has been modified from mostly water to 3/5 land. By the way: I cheated and used mesh-covered plastic crates beneath the gravel so that I wouldn't have to use as much. That stuff's expensive and heavy. 

All but one or two of the tadpoles have become frogs and are feasting away on fruit flies and pinhead crickets. Not all are green tree frogs. There are a few grays as well. And ... there are more than I originally planned to hold onto until spring. There are at least 15. Maybe more. Tough to count with all of the hiding places I've provided.

 Here's what the expanded setup looks like now: 

*Left side of expanded tank (distance)*


*
Right side of expanded tank (distance)*



*Left side from above*





*Right side*





*With screen lid closed and hood over basking area* 


*
One favorite hunting area is atop the wood slab. In the distance is a small dish of gut load chow for the crickets.*



*Small dish of banana with fruit flies. Froggie on leaf.
*


*Two frogs hangin' out by the steps
*


*They love climbing the horsetails.*


*
One late bloomer*

----------

Cliygh and Mia 2, elly

----------


## Amy

They're adorable!  Do they have a flash of yellow on the inside of their legs?  If so, then they're definitely grey tree frogs which is what I would guess by looking at them.

----------

Cliygh and Mia 2, Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

> They're adorable!  Do they have a flash of yellow on the inside of their legs?  If so, then they're definitely grey tree frogs which is what I would guess by looking at them.


They are lighter on the inside of their legs, but I don't think I'd call it yellow. Are new grey tree frogs green in the beginning? These are lime green with the exception of two or three that are grey. They are so darned cute I could squeak. LOL  :Embarrassment:

----------

Cliygh and Mia 2

----------


## Amy

All my grey tree frogs started off as grey in the beginning  :Smile:   The yellow in the legs was pale at first, almost translucent, but it was there.  All of mine were out of the water in July and the 3 that I kept still do not have coloring quite as dark as the adults.  I can already see the patterns starting to form on some of yours though.  Also, Indiana does not have any green tree frogs native to the state, so it is unlikely that it would be those.  When I look through the list of native Indiana frogs, your guys would only compare to copes or eastern grey tree frogs.  I hope this helps.  Good job with them!  Here are a few photos of mine early on so you can compare.

----------

Cliygh and Mia 2, Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

> All my grey tree frogs started off as grey in the beginning   The yellow in the legs was pale at first, almost translucent, but it was there.  All of mine were out of the water in July and the 3 that I kept still do not have coloring quite as dark as the adults.  I can already see the patterns starting to form on some of yours though.  Also, Indiana does not have any green tree frogs native to the state, so it is unlikely that it would be those.  When I look through the list of native Indiana frogs, your guys would only compare to copes or eastern grey tree frogs.  I hope this helps.  Good job with them!  Here are a few photos of mine early on so you can compare.


Yer right. Mine look just like yours. Thanks! I've never seen any green tree frogs about, so that would explain it. I have greys that run all over my windows during the summer and live in my outdoor planters, but these tadpoles were from my BF's place which is in another county South of mine. Thought maybe he had greens there. Thanks again for the info!

----------


## Amy

You're welcome!  My first frog was a grey and they've remained my favorite to this day  :Smile: . They have such big personalities.

----------

Wood Nymph

----------


## elly

What cuties!

----------

Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

My original intention was that I would release all of these in the springtime in my forest. Now ... am I being unrealistic? Can frogs brought up in a sheltered home environment function properly if returned to the wild, do ya think? 'Course - there's probably no real way to *know*, but I wonder what your opinions are ...

----------


## Marinecrab

Hey! Sorry I haven't been very active on the forums lately, I just enlisted in the U.S army and ship out in less than a year.

It looks like your frogs are coming along nicely, very cute!
Yes, he's my first real tree frog but he's a riot, very cute. We're begining to think he's a she since she is so quiet but we're not sure. Also, you live in a beautiful area!

----------

Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

Congrats on "signing up" and thank you for your service in advance.  :Smile:  

I DO live in a beautiful area. My own little private paradise. But, I had to wait many years to build here. Still have to pinch myself to make sure it's all real sometimes.

----------


## Marinecrab

> Congrats on "signing up" and thank you for your service in advance.  
> 
> I DO live in a beautiful area. My own little private paradise. But, I had to wait many years to build here. Still have to pinch myself to make sure it's all real sometimes.


Hah,np
yeah you do live in a beautiful place

----------


## Amy

Because you have other amphibians in your house,  I would not release them without first testing them for disease.   I released a bunch this summer but sent out skin swabs.  I also released them the day I got the results so they were with me for as little time as possible.  The other option would be to rehome them via Craigslist or a buy sell trade.  If you plan to keep them all winter,  be sure to check your state laws regarding captive native animals.   In Wisconsin,  we can only have 5 gray tree frogs at once.    They also get pricey to feed if you're not breeding your own crickets. If it were me,  I'd try to rehome them as soon as you know they're thriving and healthy  :Smile:

----------

Wood Nymph

----------


## Raven

> Because you have other amphibians in your house,  I would not release them without first testing them for disease.   I released a bunch this summer but sent out skin swabs.  I also released them the day I got the results so they were with me for as little time as possible.  The other option would be to rehome them via Craigslist or a buy sell trade.  If you plan to keep them all winter,  be sure to check your state laws regarding captive native animals.   In Wisconsin,  we can only have 5 gray tree frogs at once.    They also get pricey to feed if you're not breeding your own crickets. If it were me,  I'd try to rehome them as soon as you know they're thriving and healthy


Thank you for your input, Amy. The production in my "cricket & fruit fly factory" was _realllly_ ramped up for these little guys. So, feeding them isn't a problem. Dunno the legalities yet. I'll look into that. I do know that you have to have a current fishing license - which I do. I carefully wash my hands before and after caring for them. No equipment is shared. Where do you send your swabs for testing? My heart is really set on releasing them into the wild, *if at all possible.*

----------


## Amy

I did mine with a mail in kit at research associates laboratory.  http://www.vetdna.com/test-type/reptiles - I tested for ranavirus and chytrid.  I got the swab kit from my exotic vet.  If you can't release them now though, due to weather (they're all hibernating up here in WI already) I probably wouldn't after winter.  I'd be worried that they would have trouble learning how to find food in the wild.  However, they do have a pretty strong instinct so maybe it wouldn't be an issue at all.

----------

Wood Nymph

----------

