# Frogs & Toads > Pacman Frogs >  Pacman Frog Bloated!

## Summer Keller

*1. Size of enclosure* 
10 gal tank.

*2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences*
Other pacmans (separated)

*3. Humidity*
I have a frog humidity circle thing (I dont know what their called) but its between 60 - 80

*4. Temperature*
68f-75f

*5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish*
Was using water filtered through the fridge with "easycare" water balancer with added vitimins but 
as of 2 days ago I changed bottled water (says spring water but it isn't expensive) with "easycare" water balancer.

*6. Materials used for substrate*
I was using coconut fiber with chunks but as of 2 days ago i changed to eco earth (more of a mud texture but still coconut fibor)
_

8. Main food source
Gold fish

9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
I use Zoo Med Reptile Calcium Supplement to powder the crickets (they wont eat the crickets though only fish *Ive only tried fish and crickets)
So technically I have it but I havent had a chance to use it on my pacmans, can i powder the fish with it?
__
10. Lighting
Natural light - no direct sunlight and a non heat lamp tank light.

11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
Small heating pad, warm room, and a light.

12. When is the last time he/she ate
4 days ago? I tried to feed him/her a fish she bite it but held it in her mouth about 30 minutes pass and its still not completely gone.
The fish started to smell a little so i took the fish from him. I didnt know what else to do.

13. Have you found poop lately
About a week ago. Some times he poops on top of the bedding and sometime he poops in a hole so its hard to tell some times.

14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure .
I dont have a camera at the moment but I found a picture that looks exactly like him.

15. How old is the frog
4 months

16. How long have you owned him/her
3 months? I got them when they were still babies (the size of a quarter)

17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
Captive bred

18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
Gold fish (I try crickets but none of my pacmans even knowledge they are there)

19. How often the frog is handled
When I clean my tank (every 2 weeks) and some times I take them out to feed them 
(only if they are eating more of their bedding that food) so at MOST 5 times a month

20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
Moderate, a home office.

21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)
I clean their tank every 2 weeks (or try to atleast) I change their water bowl every time it is dirty.






So, I just wanted to explain a little better the trouble I am having. I got my pacmans on Christmas 2014. I have a yellow, green, and brown one. The brown one about 2 weeks ago started to bloat he would get big, go back down. He was up and down in his size. As of right now he is perfectly fine. Even when he was swollen he would still eat. Now my green frog is bloated for about 3 days now. He does not go down like the green frog he has stayed bloated. He hasn't eaten in a couple days he tried but wont swallow just holds it in his mouth. I was looking at a lot of forums online to try and figure out what it could be. I changed the water to bottle spring water, I changed the bedding to eco earth, I even change their setting from a room with no light to a room with in-direct sun light, i rinsed them off with bottled spring water before putting them bad in their tank (all of my pacmans) I also tried warm sea-salt bath as seen in one forum (said to supposedly help them pee or loose water) This did not work if anything he looks slightly larger and he didnt like it very well he wanted back in his tank. He used to move around a lot now he just sits in one sport for long periods at a time. I was told that FISH FLEX would help with his bloating. I dont want to give him any for I am not positive if it will help him or if its even meant for frog consumption. What can I do to help him? Will Fish Flex work? If so how much should I use? 

P.S. 
1. My yellow for has not bloated at all, he stays normal size all the time.
2. I have nothing in my tank but the eco earth bedding and a water bowl.
3. I understand the tank is to small for them which is why i have nothing in their tank i am in the process of looking for a larger tank.
4. The picture below is not my frog just a picture that looks exactly like him (he is all green though no brown)
5. I posted pictures of the products that I use as well and I posted a picture of the fish flex i was told could help my pacman.
6. I can not upload pictures so below are links.

Frog:
_http://oi62.tinypic.com/hvnyvd.jpg

*Calcium* *Supplement*
http://oi59.tinypic.com/10dfyiw.jpg

*Water Conditioner*
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2d8knwl.jpg

*Bedding*
http://oi59.tinypic.com/a9lf83.jpg

*Water*
http://oi59.tinypic.com/168vthh.jpg

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## Cory

hi, I know someone else with a lot more experience is looking at this thread and hopefully they put there input in on what they think is wrong but for the time being your temps are way to low. If these guys were babies when you got them those temps have to go up to about 82f during the day with a couple degree drop at night. keeping them this cold could be deadly and if not that there internal organs will start to shut down. And if his kidneys shut down it will cause him to bloat. And goldfish are not good, they carry parasites and stuff that can be passed on to your frog.

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## DVirginiana

As has already been mentioned, the frogs need to be kept 80-82 degrees daytime and 75-80 degrees at night.  As for water, only spring water or water that has been treated with something like Seachem Prime or a similar water conditioner (like you use for fish).  Goldfish are a poor food source.  In addition to carrying parasites and such that can be passed to your frogs, they have thiaminase in them which can cause serious neurological problems and even death.  You need to switch to either crickets, dubia roaches, or nightcrawlers ASAP.
You can put 5-6 drops of honey in lukewarm TREATED water no deeper than the frog's chin and soak him in it for a bit to reduce the bloating.

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## Summer Keller

> hi, I know someone else with a lot more experience is looking at this thread and hopefully they put there input in on what they think is wrong but for the time being your temps are way to low. If these guys were babies when you got them those temps have to go up to about 82f during the day with a couple degree drop at night. keeping them this cold could be deadly and if not that there internal organs will start to shut down. And if his kidneys shut down it will cause him to bloat. And goldfish are not good, they carry parasites and stuff that can be passed on to your frog.


I bought them a heating pad off eBay. It was small (I wanted large) so that is why the temperature is so low (the heating pad isn't large enough for the tank size). I am waiting for the large one to come now! The brown frog is now bloated again! I was told that frozen pinky mice are good? I was going to try that. The only reason I have not tried the roaches is because I am illergic to them! My frogs refuse to eat crickets. But I will try again. How main should they eat at a time?

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## Summer Keller

> As has already been mentioned, the frogs need to be kept 80-82 degrees daytime and 75-80 degrees at night.  As for water, only spring water or water that has been treated with something like Seachem Prime or a similar water conditioner (like you use for fish).  Goldfish are a poor food source.  In addition to carrying parasites and such that can be passed to your frogs, they have thiaminase in them which can cause serious neurological problems and even death.  You need to switch to either crickets, dubia roaches, or nightcrawlers ASAP.
> You can put 5-6 drops of honey in lukewarm TREATED water no deeper than the frog's chin and soak him in it for a bit to reduce the bloating.



 Will do the honey bath right now! I replied to *monster* about the temperature and food situation. Thank you for your guys' help!

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## Amy

I would try night crawlers, they're cheap and easy to get.  Just make sure they're undyed and not red wigglers.  Just keep pushing them and crickets, they'll eat them.  You really need to get the temps up though, that's the most important.  Then you'll probably want to test the fecals for parasites after feeding goldfish.  I would avoid the pinkie mice until they're bigger and also have the proper temperature to digest them.  Also, pinkie mice should be a rare treat, not a big part of their diet.

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## Summer Keller

I finally was able to charge my tablet to take pictures this is my green frog. I'm giving him a honey bath right now.

* Link to my green pacman*
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2liif80.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/oggymw.jpg

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## Summer Keller

> I would try night crawlers, they're cheap and easy to get.  Just make sure they're undyed and not red wigglers.  Just keep pushing them and crickets, they'll eat them.  You really need to get the temps up though, that's the most important.  Then you'll probably want to test the fecals for parasites after feeding goldfish.  I would avoid the pinkie mice until they're bigger and also have the proper temperature to digest them.  Also, pinkie mice should be a rare treat, not a big part of their diet.


OK I'll try that thank you!

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## Summer Keller

> As has already been mentioned, the frogs need to be kept 80-82 degrees daytime and 75-80 degrees at night.  As for water, only spring water or water that has been treated with something like Seachem Prime or a similar water conditioner (like you use for fish).  Goldfish are a poor food source.  In addition to carrying parasites and such that can be passed to your frogs, they have thiaminase in them which can cause serious neurological problems and even death.  You need to switch to either crickets, dubia roaches, or nightcrawlers ASAP.
> You can put 5-6 drops of honey in lukewarm TREATED water no deeper than the frog's chin and soak him in it for a bit to reduce the bloating.


I've had him in the honey bath for about 10-15 minutes he is still bloated how much longer should I leave him in?

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## DVirginiana

The honey bath should be 15-20 minutes.  Usually they will pee while in the bath.

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## Summer Keller

> The honey bath should be 15-20 minutes.  Usually they will pee while in the bath.


i left him in for about 30 minutes. He didnt pee at all still bloated. I got crickets and roaches. My brown pacman (he originally was the one bloated but he goes up and down now he is back to normal size) he eats perfectly fine even when he was bloated. My green frog ate up until the bloat. My yellow frog won't eat at all as well as the green. I even went to petco and got some "ready to eat" bites (it smells very sweet) the brown frog ate a couple pieces the green and yellow won't eat those either.  The yellow frog is now loosing a lot of weight. I went and got a bigger heater (which I have to put on the outside of my tank not under it) the temperature is up to 78f and still climbing but thats just the internal temperature the bedding is slightly cool (not cold just cool) they still won't eat and the green one is still bloated.

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## Summer Keller

*): My Babies.
*http://i58.tinypic.com/1zp47io.jpg

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## Cory

Hi, im thinking you may need to take these 2 frogs to a vet if the honey and the salt bath isn't working. And I know you said the brown one bloats but it will go away but in IMO I would get them both checked. For the one that is bloated all the time I think he is going to need one for sure. When you got frogs did you ever get fecal tests done for them? And the one that that is swollen all the time does he feel hard or soft and squishy when you pick him up? The one thing I noticed in your pictures that may not be helping is your substrate is way to wet, when you squeeze the substrate in your hand you want it clump and feel damp but not have water dripping. If they feel dehydrated or feel the need to go the water bowl they will. And if you got them at Christmas they may feel the crickets are not a big enough meal anymore, I had a pacman frog that this happened to. Keep trying the night crawlers, try to rub the worm under his chin and he may take it. Or another trick I find is to touch his front foot with it, this one I find works good.

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