# Frogs & Toads > Other Frogs & Toads >  African dwarf frogs, new owner problems

## kyle

Long story short: set up a tank, checked water.  Went to pet store, they convinced us an aqueon evolve 2 (little self contained tank) would be better for the frogs.  Came home with 2 frogs and aqueon tank, moved water over, put in frogs. In the morning both frogs are in filter chamber.  One seems fine, the other moves but lies on it's back on the bottom of the tank.

More detail: when I checked water, there was no chlorine but it was still alkaline.  At the pet store, I was told this was OK.

After we found the frogs in the filter chamber, we unplugged it, and I moved everything back to the larger tank I had initially setup.  I couldn't get a net into the tiny filter area, so I poured them out into the tank.  One stayed on his back in the chamber, and I had to gently coax him out by sliding him with a clean chopstick.   Once in the tank, both swam around for a bit.

When I checked on them, the one who had been stuck was lying on his back on the bottom of the tank.  I filled a clean jar with water from the tank, and went to fish him out.  He moved, but didn't turn over.  He's still in the jar, moving occasionally.

Is he hurt, sick, or fine?  Should I keep him isolated, or move him back to the tank?

Thanks.

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## Felis

Hi,

I still wonder why those 2-gallon-deathtraps are even sold. That´s just too small for any vertebrate species! Unfortunately, many sellers will tell you anything to get your money.(

If your frog is still lying on its back, it´s most likely sick or dying either from bad water conditions or disease or wrong nutrition (unfortunately, the ones fresh from the store are frequently sick or raised in a bad way). It was a good move to put them to your tank, but it´s still interesting how big this tank is, how long it has been cylcled, how the water values are (not only chlorine, but pH, nitrites, nitrate) and what you feed them. 
Isolating the frog is a good idea to prevent a possible infection on the other frog, but you still have to maintain good environmental conditions for the sick one, otherwise the stress will weaken it only more.

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## taniaaust1

I'd be taking the sick frog back to the pet shop along with that tank they sold you and letting them know how unhappy you are about this so they wont be doing this same thing to others or at least ring them to tell them what has happened and that it looks like you have now a dying frog.

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## kyle

The one I isolated died less than an hour later.  As I couldn't get to the shop today, now I've got to wait until Monday to get back to the store. I assume I need to bring that guy back if I ask for any sort of refund?  It's just pretty distasteful and somewhat disturbing to have a dead pet in a jar, even if I just got him.

The other guy seems to be doing just fine, but he hasn't eaten his bloodworms yet.  This is just past the 24 hour mark of having him home, so that doesn't seem too unusual to me.  All we got for food were frozen bloodworms.  I'm hoping that's an OK diet?

The tank hadn't been cycled.  It's a new 5.5(?) gallon tank, rinsed, filled with tap water, and let sit for 24 hours.  I tested the water with a multi-test aquarium strip, and aside from being slightly alkaline, everything read safe.

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## kyle

Update: the second frog died within a few hours of posting that.

I returned the death-trap tank, and brought the two poor frogs back. They refunded my money for the tank, and gave me store credit for the frogs.

I went back to look at the tank they came from. It was full of dead frogs. Really, obviously, dead frogs. I'm thinking I want to get replacement frogs from somewhere else, but I honestly don't know if any other store will be better. This was about the most reputable aquarium store I've seen in ages.



Edit: Spelling

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## Felis

Hi Kyle,

I´m very sorry to read this. 

It´s a good thing you could return the tank (very accomodating behavior of the store). Obviously, there was something very wrong with the whole batch of frogs if you actually could see dead ones in the tank of the LSF.

I would try to get frogs from private breeders (local aquarium clubs, classified ads etc) which were raised, fed and kept adequately. Also, it´s always a good idea to get as much information as possible about the needs of new pets before buying , if you didn´t already. This is a nice article to start FrogsArtNeale

Good luck!

Edit: Somehow, I didn´t see your message before. 5.5 gal is ok for ADFs, but it should be cycled. Frogs aren´t as nitrite-sensitive as fish, but it´s still poisonous in higher amounts. 24 hours after the setup, the nitrogen cycle didn´t start yet, so it´s pretty normal that your readings were fine. Please read about the cycling process if necessary; now that you unfortunately lost your frogs, there will be enough time to let the tank cycle.
Bloodworms are ok as a treat, but I would recommend alternating with brine shrimps, daphnia, glassworms, black mosquito larvae, mysis, pieces of earthworms, tubifex, enchytraea etc. as bloodworms don´t contain all the nutrients an ADF needs. All foods should be life or frozen instead of freeze dried.

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## kyle

Update: tank has been cycling(?) for a week now, assuming leaving it with a filter running and a plant in it is cycling...The readings according to the multi-test strips (I think all but ph was in PPM)nitrate is safe at 20nitrite is at 0hardness at 150chlorine is at 0alkalinity at 300ph at 7.8Will that be safe for the froggies?  If it is, I was going to pick up two, and try again.Thanks!

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## Felis

Hi,

one week is a very short time  :Wink:  Usually, the cycling process takes about 4-8 weeks. Nitrite will peak during this time and then drop to 0 again as soon as the beneficial bacteria have grown. Nitrate will raise as nitrite is oxidated into nitrate. Theoretically, it is possible to get the frogs before, but then you will have to monitor the nitrite readings at least once daily. If the reading is > 0.3, you will have to do substantial water changes to get the nitrite < 0.3, maybe several times per day which is a lot of work (in my experience, the frogs can handle nitrite readings up to 0.3 for a short time, but nitrite is toxic to them, so you would have to realize any behavioural changes. Some individuals may react to lower readings. Also, frequent water changes will extend the cycling process, so you would have to be very, very careful for several weeks). Especially for unexperienced owners, it´s way more safe to wait until the cycling is complete. It´s best to just be patient and check the water every other day  :Wink:

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## frogphibian

Im going to be honest I recommend buying them online from a reputable reptile/amphibian dealer.

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