# General Topics > Food, Feeders, Live, Frozen, Culturing, etc >  Multiple species in one outdoor bin?

## MayQueen

I've really been wanting an American Toad for quite a while now and done lots of research. I unfortunately have a significant other who has a very strict rule about no pets that eat bugs...but I can be convincing! I was thinking about a worm bin on the back deck that also contained isopods as I think the two species would do well together. Would crickets possibly work in there also? Then there's no stink and noise inside. 

I know this would only work in the warmer months but during that time it would keep feed cost down considerably. I also have more questions on this setup...

Do they sell feeder earthworms to cut down on parasites? I know having them outside could already expose them but would be much lower than if taken directly from the woods out back of me. 

Also could they possibly winter/hibernate/whatever or would I need to refresh each species every year? Could I do this all in a big storage bin with a few holes for air?

Sorry for so many questions!

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## Xavier

To answer your questions to the best of my ability:

The type of enclosure you are planning on setting up is a bioactive enclosure. Basically, the isopods, springtails, and earthworms decompose the waste matter the animals produce, meaning you do not have to spend as much time cleaning the enclosure as you would with a regular enclosure.

I'd imagine crickets would work, you would just have to watch them as they are known to occasionally damage amphibians by biting/eating them. If you're looking for another thing to add to the enclosure, I would imagine mealworms and their adult beetle form would work nice in the enclosure, and serve as food for the toads if they are found by them.

Earthworms should be easy to find in bait & tackle shops and online specialty stores, I believe Josh's frogs has the best type of earthworm for that type of enclosure, Canadian nightcrawlers. It would be easier to have the enclosure inside, as you could provide heat, water, humidity, and other things the animals would need much easier. If your spouse doesn't like it indoors, you can either move it somewhere where they never go, such as an attic or basement with electricity, or if they still won't like it, it would be better to not attempt to acquire American toads at all, and look for some other animal to use in place of it.

If the storage bin has a drainage layer, and has enough space, it should work, as glass enclosures are not the only type of enclosure on the market. If I remember correctly mealworms die off in the winter, but those are easy to re-stock. Isopods, springtails, and earthworms are all active in all but the coldest weather. The American toads if kept outside during the winter months, will need to either be moved indoors, or allowed to hibernate. If they do hibernate, they should be ready to breed by the time most storms roll around in the area, so it will get noisy hearing males call, if there are any. I would suggest keeping the enclosure indoors though, as it's less stressful on the animals since they do not have to hibernate, and you can monitor them for diseases and keep them out of the elements. 

Hope that helped!  :Smile:

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## MayQueen

I apologize for not being very clear about this. The toads would be inside the home in still a bioactive set up though with plants and such, I have a 20 long already. The feeder bin would be completely separate, to grow and breed feeders only. The issues is with the creepy crawlers being housed and bred in the home. The deck is easily accessible, private and has a water spout plus I go out several times a day already so upkeep would be no issue.

And yes that was very helpful thank you so much!

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## Xavier

If you plan on breeding feeder insects outdoors, I think it should work, as many people breed cultures for their pets. Crickets should work as a decomposer as well, since there's no risk of them damaging the toads. I would also recommend being sure nothing can get in, and nothing can get out, as I would imagine Raccoons would love an easy buffet of earthworms and other invertebrates, and I would imagine accidentally establishing an invasive population of something would cause a harmful change to the ecosystem.

Hope this helps!  :Smile:

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## MayQueen

I plan on having a latch tote of considerable size so it'll be heavy. There are raccoons that come by, if need be I'll get crafty. I was only going to do native stuff in the chance of an escapee. Worms, isopods and crickets all live right out back already. Thank you again for the information and help!

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Cliygh and Mia 2

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## Bryce

Hi! While I love the idea of using native insects, there are some issues I feel I should mention. Wild insects often carry some degree of parasites, which they can pass to your frog when eaten. There may be a way to treat insects for parasites to prepare them for colony creation, but I don't know how. I suppose you could also simply seperate the eggs from the adults and never use the wild caught crickets as feeders. That way they (should?) never pass the parasites onto their young. However, outside it is
harder to limit their contact with other insects that may pass them onto the colony anyway. Also, Raccoons can work simple latches, so you may have to "get crafty" lol. Honestly, I would recommend keeping them inside or in a shed or garage if it's not attached to the house, or a greenhouse. Something to keep it out of reach of the raccoons. I hope this helps. Good luck!

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elly

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## MayQueen

I wasn't planning on using any of the wild species near me, only feeders I order online or at a local pet shop (not a chain store). I am doing lots of research to make sure it's something that can't get into by raccoons or other bugs. I should mention I am in a city so no garage or shed and the raccoons are more interested in people's trash. I have crickets that are quite loud all very close to my deck and I've never seen them hunt any, only once they grabbed a moth that was attracted to the light. If it really doesn't work I do have an attic but it's a bigger pain to get to. I plan to get these possible issues resolved before even getting any toads.

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## MayQueen

After doing more research on each individual feeder I am abandoning this idea of a multi species outdoor bin. I wasn't worried about raccoons but had no idea ants go after crickets plus I don't want my pet getting parasites. It'll be a PITA but I think the warmth of the attic will be a good alternative when temps are right. In the winter I could still do worms and isopods indoors. I have a good source for crickets that I could walk to and get as needed in the winter and just keep them for a day or two to gutload. I also plan on ordering other species such as silkworms here and there to keep a varied diet. Thank you again to everyone for the advice and input.

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## Hibiscusmile

I dont know, wouldnt it be easier to keep the spouse outside instead?

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