# General Topics > Food, Feeders, Live, Frozen, Culturing, etc >  Springtails for new terrarium

## itzjezze

I just got done setting up my first natural terrarium. I have Hydroballs covered by mesh covered with cocofiber. I have a few plants and a driftwood stick, waterfall and such. I was going to get a RETF however I decided to get a pair of darts since the terrarium is only 12x12x18.

I havent had springtails before however I am concerned since it is a bug and I have roommates. Will springtails escape the terrarium and make home in our carpeting/bedding/furniture? and also I have read that soil is needed for springtails, will just having cocofiber be ok?

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## 1beataway

I have never had springtails but I've considered it. From what I've gathered from other members, they'll only be interested in your soil and are very unlikely to escape.

I would assume the coco fiber would be fine.

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## itzjezze

Thanks  :Smile: 

Another question:
For feeding darts, is it just as easy as setting up a culture of springtails before introducing the frogs? Do I need to monitor the culture or do they reproduce as fast as the frogs eat them? lol

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## Leefrogs

Springs are more of a snack, u still need fruit flies and/or pin heads. They're more for cleaning purposes, as they eat your frogs waste.

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## clownonfire

> I just got done setting up my first natural terrarium. I have Hydroballs covered by mesh covered with cocofiber. I have a few plants and a driftwood stick, waterfall and such. I was going to get a Red-Eyed Leaf Frog however I decided to get a pair of darts since the terrarium is only 12x12x18.
> 
> I havent had springtails before however I am concerned since it is a bug and I have roommates. Will springtails escape the terrarium and make home in our carpeting/bedding/furniture? and also I have read that soil is needed for springtails, will just having cocofiber be ok?


Hi! If you are going to go with darts, you should seed your terrarium in advance (at least two weeks before you introduce the darts) with springtails. Basically, get a culture and spread it on the substrate of your terrarium. It will give them enough time to dig down and reproduce. This microfauna will be a great source of food for your darts.

Now the springtails wont escape, they are tiny and prefer dark and wet places... As for fruit flies, which should be the other food source (or pinhead crickets - which are more expensive and will hide in the substrate). Fruit flies should be feed every other day, and they should be dusted first. Your frogs will eat on the springtails when there are no FF. And springtails will also clean your viv...

Depending on what dart frogs you will be getting, you will either feed D. hydei (bigger fruitflies) or D. melanogaster (smaller). Make sure you get either flightless or wingless. Now even if they will not fly, some will escape, so be ready to live with a few loose bugs! 

12*12*18 is on the smaller side for darts... Do you know which ones you are thinking of getting? For a small frog, they need lots of space. In the dimensions you are giving, I would only suggest something like a pair of thumbnails, as they are arboreal. You would need to create more of a vertical landscape for them.

Don't hesitate if you have more questions...

Eric

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## itzjezze

> Hi! If you are going to go with darts, you should seed your terrarium in advance (at least two weeks before you introduce the darts) with springtails. Basically, get a culture and spread it on the substrate of your terrarium. It will give them enough time to dig down and reproduce. This microfauna will be a great source of food for your darts.
> 
> Now the springtails wont escape, they are tiny and prefer dark and wet places... As for fruit flies, which should be the other food source (or pinhead crickets - which are more expensive and will hide in the substrate). Fruit flies should be feed every other day, and they should be dusted first. Your frogs will eat on the springtails when there are no FF. And springtails will also clean your viv...
> 
> Depending on what dart frogs you will be getting, you will either feed D. hydei (bigger fruitflies) or D. melanogaster (smaller). Make sure you get either flightless or wingless. Now even if they will not fly, some will escape, so be ready to live with a few loose bugs! 
> 
> 12*12*18 is on the smaller side for darts... Do you know which ones you are thinking of getting? For a small frog, they need lots of space. In the dimensions you are giving, I would only suggest something like a pair of thumbnails, as they are arboreal. You would need to create more of a vertical landscape for them.
> 
> Don't hesitate if you have more questions...
> ...


I was thinking about having a pair of Dendrobates Auratus. Will the be comfertable in that size of a tank?
If not will Imitators be ok? If I get a thumbnail I would prefer the Imitators.

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## Don

So can you seed a viv after it as been established?  Wondered this for some time now.

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## clownonfire

> So can you seed a viv after it as been established?  Wondered this for some time now.


It is possible to see a viv with springtails even after it's housed by frogs. Actually, even once a viv is seeded it will needed to be reseeded occasionally. However, it is much easier to seed when inhabited. 

As for D.auratus, in my opinion, it's too small. And yes, Imitators are great thumbnails. Bold, very bold actually, and perfectly suited for beginners. And they will do well in a viv of that size.

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## itzjezze

> It is possible to see a viv with springtails even after it's housed by frogs. Actually, even once a viv is seeded it will needed to be reseeded occasionally. However, it is much easier to seed when inhabited. 
> 
> As for D.auratus, in my opinion, it's too small. And yes, Imitators are great thumbnails. Bold, very bold actually, and perfectly suite for beginners. And they will do well in a viv of that size.


Great  :Smile:  now only if I could find some lol

So whats the limit of thumbnails in that small of a tank?

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## clownonfire

> Great  now only if I could find some lol
> 
> So whats the limit of thumbnails in that small of a tank?


I wouldn't put more than a pair. Again, that's me. As for finding some... They shouldn't be too hard to find, itzjezze.... Spring shipping season is starting.... If you Google well.... I might have someone who could help you too. Let me contact him first...

Eric

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## itzjezze

> I wouldn't put more than a pair. Again, that's me. As for finding some... They shouldn't be too hard to find, itzjezze.... Spring shipping season is starting.... If you Google well.... I might have someone who could help you too. Let me contact him first...
> 
> Eric


Dude your awsome  :Big Grin:  Your so helpful, thank you!

Another question. Do i get regular springtails or tropical springtails? and will they need fruit flies as well? or just springtails?

Also can I add a little bit of aquarium gravel sized rocks to my water feature or is that risking ingestion during feeding?

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## clownonfire

> Dude your awsome  Your so helpful, thank you!
> 
> Another question. Do i get regular springtails or tropical springtails? and will they need fruit flies as well? or just springtails?
> 
> Also can I add a little bit of aquarium gravel sized rocks to my water feature or is that risking ingestion during feeding?


It's my pleasure. I love all my frogs, but my darts are my favorites (i don't want the other ones hearing this though).

Springtails wont be enough for your thumbs. You will need to feed them fruit flies, and for thumbs, it will be D. melanogaster (here's a great thread for Fruit Flies cultures: http://www.frogforum.net/care-articl...rosophila.html). As for springtails, here's another great question that Poison Beauties could answer (he's been very helpful with me when I started, and most of what I know comes from him). And to quote Michael: Temperate or Tropical they all thrive under the same conditions. So both should be fine. I use the temperate ones.

As for the gravel, Frog Forum's founder John made a viv last year for his P. terribilis (can't wait to have mine) that used small gravel and it seems to be fine. You'll find the pictures here: http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...terrarium.html.

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## itzjezze

> It's my pleasure. I love all my frogs, but my darts are my favorites (i don't want the other ones hearing this though).
> 
> Springtails wont be enough for your thumbs. You will need to feed them fruit flies, and for thumbs, it will be D. melanogaster (here's a great thread for Fruit Flies cultures: http://www.frogforum.net/care-articl...rosophila.html). As for springtails, here's another great question that Poison Beauties could answer (he's been very helpful with me when I started, and most of what I know comes from him). And to quote Michael: Temperate or Tropical they all thrive under the same conditions. So both should be fine. I use the temperate ones.
> 
> As for the gravel, Frog Forum's founder John made a viv last year for his P. terribilis (can't wait to have mine) that used small gravel and it seems to be fine. You'll find the pictures here: http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...terrarium.html.


Ive been looking at getting some springtails but the cheapest I can find them is $20 (including shipping) at Josh'sfrogs.com, i dont have much experience in buying bugs but that seems a little steep of a price for little bugs lol is there any other place or way to obtain these bugs? Ive read a few forums of people getting them out of there backyard but I dont know if that would be safe...

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## clownonfire

> Ive been looking at getting some springtails but the cheapest I can find them is $20 (including shipping) at Josh'sfrogs.com, i dont have much experience in buying bugs but that seems a little steep of a price for little bugs lol is there any other place or way to obtain these bugs? Ive read a few forums of people getting them out of there backyard but I dont know if that would be safe...


Michael Lawrence might still have some (Poison Beauties). I suggest you contact him!

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## itzjezze

> Michael Lawrence might still have some (Poison Beauties). I suggest you contact him!


I asked him, he ran out lol but I went to bugsincyberspace.com and they were $13 (including shipping) for a culture of 50. Hopefully they all arrive in one piece  :Frog Smile:

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## clownonfire

> I asked him, he ran out lol but I went to bugsincyberspace.com and they were $13 (including shipping) for a culture of 50. Hopefully they all arrive in one piece


That's great.... I wonder what dismembered springtails would look like...

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## itzjezze

> That's great.... I wonder what dismembered springtails would look like...


lol I dont want to find out XD

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## clownonfire

Hey,

Well I contacted my friends and it seems he doesn't have any thumbs. But here's a link to Understory Enterprises. They have some, always available I think. They also ship to the US. And they have great lineage. Also, part of the money they receive for the frogs go to conservation efforts in South America.  :Smile: 

Understory Enterprises Inc. - Homepage

Eric

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## itzjezze

Very cool  :Smile:  thank you. I checked the website, they didnt have Imitators listed but I sent them an email to see if they have any.

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## Tony

> Very cool  thank you. I checked the website, they didnt have Imitators listed but I sent them an email to see if they have any.


Which morph are you looking for? I have a buddy who was overrun with standards recently, he probably still has some.

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## itzjezze

> Which morph are you looking for? I have a buddy who was overrun with standards recently, he probably still has some.


Im not picky, just lookin for D.  Imitators  :Smile: 
If he still has some lemme know how much he wants for a male/female pair.

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## Tony

Just talked to him, he doesn't have any that are sexable, but he has two froglets left and several tads that will morph soon. Sexed pairs will not be very common, most people sell off their froglets long before they are sexable. If you are willing to pay a premium Pat Nabors often has pairs listed on saurian.net.

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## itzjezze

> Just talked to him, he doesn't have any that are sexable, but he has two froglets left and several tads that will morph soon. Sexed pairs will not be very common, most people sell off their froglets long before they are sexable. If you are willing to pay a premium Pat Nabors often has pairs listed on saurian.net.


What's the risk of keeping 2 of the same sex in 1 terrarium?
How much is he asking per frog? And is he in Oregon?

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## Tony

I'm waiting to hear back on the asking price, he lives near Corvallis and if you two work out a deal I can deliver, I make trips to Salem regularly. John has posted a great in-depth care sheet for _R. imitator_, I'll refer you to that since I don't work with thumbnails.

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## itzjezze

Awsome  :Smile:  that would be great. Yeah just lemme know how much he wants and how much u want for transporting them.

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## Tony

He said $30 each, but they are not ready to go quite yet. Don't worry about paying for delivery, I am up in Salem all the time so it is no big deal to bring along the frogs.

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## itzjezze

Cool thanx  :Big Grin:  let him know that I would like 2 of them if its ok.

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## clownonfire

Well, Jess. Seems like you are getting a pair of thumbs! Congrats!

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## itzjezze

Thanx  :Smile:  lol im excited

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