# Frogs & Toads > African Bullfrogs >  New baby adspersus. You know you love THEM!

## NialR35

Hello fellow froggers!

Already on my second week as a frog owner, and after doing much research; I ordered my _Pyxicephalus adspersus_ from LLLreptile. I got this very healthy/active baby that hoped out of the deli cup as soon as I opened it and ate five night crawler pieces on his/her first night!( I was surprised this little one ate so much in the first night, very big +++). I will try to keep this post of mine updated with pictures as he grows up, for the entertainment of us frog lovers  :Frog Smile: !



Questions:

Approximately how much do YOUR pyxies eat at full grown size? I need to do some calculations from now.Also I've read different things about Aestivation...what is your opinion on this? Is this necessary or it's just inevitable? I've read that it can cause death sometimes, so what's the best thing to do when the time comes?Last but not least, I dust for my pacman Ca+D3 x2 per week and multivitamin x1 per week, is this also enough for a growing baby pyxie? should I dust the first item ONLY or every item in the feeding session? 

Thank you all!

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## Jack

1. I just got my baby last month, was the same size as yours and now its 4 inches. It isn't even fully grown and can eat about 10 crickets, 5 night crawlers, 3 adult Dubias a couple of pachnodas and a locust in 24 hours(that's his record). So they will eat loads when fully grown.

2. I have no clue. It's not inevitable if you keep your frog at warm temperatures all year round and I don't think it's necessary.(not 100% sure though)

3. I dust mine with calcium+d3 every other day and dust about half of what he eats. I dust with multivitamin once a week and dust all the prey items. Don't dust to heavily though, just a fine coat should cover the insects or whatever you feed him/her.

Bear in mind it will eat loads more if its a male when its an adult just to sustain its large size. I'm just taking a guess her but I think it's a male but its stil way, way to young to tell. Anyway keep us updated on your frog. Hope I helped. :Smile:

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## Lija

what a beautiful baby! take tons of pics, s/he'll be changing overnight lol

 dust every second feeding with ca/vit d3 and once week multivitamins, but don't mix them same day. while they're babies and growing at the rate, that you know they will but seeing it will shock you anyway, they need more ca then 2xweek. dust everything you feed that day.
 how much it will eat? I'll tell you this - open a savings account if you have a boy, and start big dubia colony right away. lol
 they eat a lot  :Smile:  it can easily eat 10-15 nightcrawlers at a time if that is a girl, way, way more if that is a big boy lol 

yes, aestivation is dangerous if done incorrectly, however is not necessary. Just go with a flow, at some point a frog will want to burry deep and stop eating or start eating less, so just go with it not changing temps or anything else.

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## NialR35

Thanks guys for your help!

@Lija: Do they really eat that much? wow that savings account comment freaked me out lol. I thought an adult male would be fine with 4 large earthworms every 2-3 days...this isn't enough?

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## Jack

For an adult male that's no where near enough. My baby male can eat more than that in two minutes lol.

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## Lija

hahaha lol haha oh gosh that is a good one lol 4 earthworms every 2-3 days lol you mean earthworms right that are smaller then canadian nightcrawlers?

 I'll tell you how my 5" female ate last week ( if i remember right, i don't have her feeding log here, but the amount should be about her usual)
mon- 8 nightcrawlers ( these huge ones), tue 20 crickets, wed 10 nightcrawlers, fri 10 nigthcrawlers, sun 30 crickets + 5 huge hornworms. 

 imagine a frog that is twice her size, i believe Grif said currently his 3 month old baby is eating about 20 nightcrawlers per feeding lol calculating $?

 but seriously you should look into starting dubia colony, it may save you quite a bit and you can sell off if you have too many.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

The most my male has eaten in a single feeding was 3 balls of Pacman food and over 20 Night Crawlers.

I don't want to devulge his latest meal. It was rediculous and he was still hungry the next day.

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## NialR35

Oh God....I did not know it would be so expensive to feed an adult!! 

Any recommendations/links to start a Dubia colony and can you guys please tell me where you order your night crawlers/dubias/food? If they eat this much when fully grown its pointless to buy then by the dozen then at my local bait shop. I would need to order in bulk, who do you recommend for this?  :Frog Surprise:  and how much would it cost per month to feed a full grown pyxie/ornate individually( an estimate)

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Oh God....I did not know it would be so expensive to feed an adult!! 
> 
> Any recommendations/links to start a Dubia colony and can you guys please tell me where you order your night crawlers/dubias/food? If they eat this much when fully grown its pointless to buy then by the dozen then at my local bait shop. I would need to order in bulk, who do you recommend for this?  and how much would it cost per month to feed a full grown pyxie/ornate individually( an estimate)


I don't know the exact cost for mine. I own 19 Pacman Frogs and one Male Pyxi. They all get the same staple. I don't order my worms except Hornworms and Pacman Food. I buy from Wal Mart and normally spend about $50.00 every 2 to 2.5 weeks.

My Dubias I purchased at an Expo, but my colony crashed so I'm starting over with some survivors that I had separated before hand.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Look up Speedyworms.com

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## NialR35

> I don't know the exact cost for mine. I own 19 Pacman Frogs and one Male Pyxi. They all get the same staple. I don't order my worms except Hornworms and Pacman Food. I buy from Wal Mart and normally spend about $50.00 every 2 to 2.5 weeks.
> 
> My Dubias I purchased at an Expo, but my colony crashed so I'm starting over with some survivors that I had separated before hand.



Wow 19 pacmans!!! Boy you must get a fat check for that. Anyway when you say you spend around $50.00 every two weeks or so, that is for just one frog or all 19?

 I just wanted to know an estimate to know how much on average I will spend monthly to feed my ornate and pyxie at full size. I plan to staple night crawlers(I already stopped feeding crickets because I cant stand them).  

I checked speedyworm.....but are they reliable? I really dont want to receive dead worms....and I guess I would have to ask for next day shipping right?(which is super expensive...)

I really need to find a solution to this...my new baby pyxie is already eating like a  viking since his first night...5-6 night crawler pieces  :Frog Surprise:  and would probably eat more but I'm using the 15 min rule.

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## NialR35

> hahaha lol haha oh gosh that is a good one lol 4 earthworms every 2-3 days lol you mean earthworms right that are smaller then canadian nightcrawlers?
> 
>  I'll tell you how my 5" female ate last week ( if i remember right, i don't have her feeding log here, but the amount should be about her usual)
> mon- 8 nightcrawlers ( these huge ones), tue 20 crickets, wed 10 nightcrawlers, fri 10 nigthcrawlers, sun 30 crickets + 5 huge hornworms. 
> 
>  imagine a frog that is twice her size, i believe Grif said currently his 3 month old baby is eating about 20 nightcrawlers per feeding lol calculating $?
> 
>  but seriously you should look into starting dubia colony, it may save you quite a bit and you can sell off if you have too many.


Yea, I meant Canadian Night crawlers  :Frown:  I don't think it matters because apparently 3-4 wont be enough....damn I hope I get females lol...
Do you buy yours worms in bulk?

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## SCF

> Yea, I meant Canadian Night crawlers  I don't think it matters because apparently 3-4 wont be enough....damn I hope I get females lol...
> Do you buy yours worms in bulk?


Your solution will be a large insect colony. Dubia roaches is the answer. A female will eat quite a bit anyways, it's going to eat almost the same as a male.

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## NialR35

Yea I will start looking into that SCF.

Lija and SCF approximately how much do you guy spend then? I just need an average to have an idea how much it would cost to feed my two frogs at full size. And where do you get your food from? Colleen/Jerrod gave me his feedback, what about you guys?

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## Lija

if you start colony now it will hopefully get established in a few month depending on the amount you get, get pacman food to be used once in a while to keep costs down. but yeah that is why I'm very happy to have a female  :Smile:  she eats less and needs less space.

 Grif - somebody is about to hit another growth spurt?

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## Lija

> Yea I will start looking into that SCF.
> 
> Lija and SCF approximately how much do you guy spend then? I just need an average to have an idea how much it would cost to feed my two frogs at full size. And where do you get your food from? Colleen/Jerrod gave me his feedback, what about you guys?


 sometimes i order a big styro box ( 500-1000) from there https://www.canadiannightcrawlers.com/shop/ 
I have no idea how much i spend, trying not to count lol and i do have quite a few guys to feed ( see below, and these are not all) but I'm trying to get everything in bulk and actually i really love buying nightcrawlers in bulk, they can stay for as  long as you need, the problem only that you need a separate fridge to keep them, the box is quite big if you get 500 or 1000 worms.

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## NialR35

Yea I had to buy a new mini fridge to put my night crawlers. Do yours come packed or you have to separate them? If so what do you use for the substrate?

By the way, Im feeding the SAME brand of night crawlers you are hahaha! They are so big.

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## Lija

nothing, i get a box, put it in a fridge, every month i take some soil out and add some ( just regular organic soil without fertilizers). when i asked these guys told me that worms can easily keep going for 6-8 month, however they never lasted that long for different reason lol

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## SCF

Here's the thing though NialR35, the key is diversity. You cannot expect the frog to eat the same thing day after day. I truly wish the end all solution was feeding them bulk night crawlers. In the wild they will eat and consume a huge variety vertebrates/invertebrates. The key to longevity and overall health is mixing it up. A variety of insects offers complex nutrients and vitamins that you could never duplicate with solely 1-2 staple feeders.

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## SCF

> Oh God....I did not know it would be so expensive to feed an adult!! 
> 
> Any recommendations/links to start a Dubia colony and can you guys please tell me where you order your night crawlers/dubias/food? If they eat this much when fully grown its pointless to buy then by the dozen then at my local bait shop. I would need to order in bulk, who do you recommend for this?  and how much would it cost per month to feed a full grown pyxie/ornate individually( an estimate)


I sell dubia.

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## NialR35

> Here's the thing though NialR35, the key is diversity. You cannot expect the frog to eat the same thing day after day. I truly wish the end all solution was feeding them bulk night crawlers. In the wild they will eat and consume a huge variety vertebrates/invertebrates. The key to longevity and overall health is mixing it up. A variety of insects offers complex nutrients and vitamins that you could never duplicate with solely 1-2 staple feeders.


Well you do have to have a staple diet, the other insects you offer can be used as treats and nothing else. You can probably switch around diets every week or every other day from night crawlers/crickets/Dubias and that's about it as far as staple goes. Every other insect can be used for variety but not for a weekly feeding.

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## SCF

I'll pm you a complete nutritional composition of feeder vertebrates. Night crawlers/crickets/dubias are three out of the hundred of thousands of acceptable staple insects to feed your captive bred frog. They are just more readily available.

Edit: you are not wrong in choosing your staples by any means, but there are just vast amounts of insects that are acceptable to feed out cb pets.

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## Lija

i agree with Nial, nightcrawlers/dubia(any roaches) should be a staple, meaning these are food items that are being given more often, with everything else ( healthy stuff) given in between, we gotta think about costs of feeding too :Smile:  
 i feed crickets because my girly loves hunting them, but they have not much of a nutritional value.
actually there's not much to choose from that would balance between cost, availability and nutritional value. say hornworms, they're nice and big and juicy and cost here 1.5-2$ each  :Frown:  now multiply it by 15 = 20$ per feeding, and I'm sure after eating 10 worms the frog will still be hungry  :Smile:  so it is all about balance and keeping stress levels of an owner under control lol

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## NialR35

This upcoming Tuesday will be two weeks since I got my baby. He/she is still nameless because I  don't know what genre she/he will turn out to be but some updates!

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## NialR35

Update!

This upcoming Tuesday will be a month since I got my baby pyxie! WOW time flies. I still remember when I first got my baby and was about 1". He/she has almost 2.5x his/her size and looks healthy. 

 I hope these pics can somehow help sex him if possible so I can name him/her. My ornate is for sure a male as he croaks every night( I will update his pics soon but lazy is always burrowed) and does not shut up hahaha which is good because I have a feeling my pyxie could be a male so it will kinda balance out my wallet since male pacs are smaller and tend to eat a bit less than their females counterparts. As far as male pyxies, they are like a bottomless pit. Let the debate begin.....if possible with the provided pics! I just want to be able to name him/her  :Frog Smile:   Also just double confirm with me if it's an adspersus/giant.

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## SCF

I'ts looking female... based on picture 3/8 and 4.

key word here is *looking.* It's still fairly early.

Edit: Oh yeah, it is 100% a giant.

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## NialR35

Hahaha that would be good news for my wallet! But yea its a bit too early but I love the debates for the entertainment. Some pics look more female that others, while others look more towards male.

I love watching them grow....too bad my ornate just grows but doesnt really change much lol.

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## Lija

I'm leaning more towards female too, but it might be a male too, too early yet. s/he is so pretty!

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Hmmmm.....I'm going to say male with 75% certainty. The distance from eyes to snout is looking good. Females tend to have a short snout.

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## NialR35

I love how males look when fully grown, like a rhino. Females are okay but "they eat less" unless you end up with a grabibus part 2  lol. 

I don't know if it makes a difference but I took these pics right after I fed him/her. So the sides look wider than usual because he/she was full. Head seems triangular enough though.

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## NialR35

After tonight's feeding. Sometimes I go to sleep, and when I wake up in the morning my frog morphed into stage 2 monster lol. Reminds me of how fast Hornworms grow(Which I have to refrigerate for a couple of days now to halt growth).

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## SCF

> After tonight's feeding. Sometimes I go to sleep, and when I wake up in the morning my frog morphed into stage 2 monster lol. Reminds me of how fast Hornworms grow(Which I have to refrigerate for a couple of days now to halt growth).


It's a female. =)

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## NialR35

I hope so! then I won't have to upgrade the tank and feed slightly less hehehehe.

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## Carlos

Wow somehow missed this thread!  Very cute baby, you got it really tiny.  Based on the first and last set of pics, will go with male, due to it's face  :Smile:  .  Once they reach around 4 in. males usually start croaking and then you will know for sure.

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## NialR35

Hahahaha, thanks Carlos!

Yea I'm kinda hoping for a male because I like how they look better than females, I can see he/she does have a big triangular head for its size but at this point I will be happy with whatever I get because I love my froggy. Only time will truly tell  :Frog Smile:

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## NialR35

Only took a couple of pics, will post more when I get a chance!

 

What do you guys think?

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## Carlos

How big is it now from snout to vent (SVL)?

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## NialR35

> How big is it now from snout to vent (SVL)?


I have not measured him/her but it's around 3 1/2 " SVL and he/she is 2 months and 3 weeks. I think at this point it can turn either male or female  :Smile:

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## Lija

Well mine went from male( up to 6-9 month old) to female  and then back to a male ( at about 15-18 months) lol

 so I'm saying yours  look like male now especially in a last pic  :Smile:

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## maxQ

Ha Ha Ha...what a cute face he has.

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