# Frogs & Toads > Fire Belly Toads (Bombina) >  Feeding a malnourished Firebelly toad?

## sjham16

Hi!
This is my first post.

 I'll confess that I forgot to feed my frog for a week (I regret it) and it is malnourished. 
Please don't attack at me that how bad of an owner I am. I'm quite aware of that and I want to change that.
I placed it in quarantine.
First of all, the frog developed some weird things on it.
My firebelly toad has a weird brown transparent covering around its mouth.

I don't know how, but the frog can somehow still move and jump..??
It seems to try to wipe off the brown muck stuff.
It is oversensitive. When I accidentally touch it with the tweezers, it ducks and stays like that for a few seconds.

I also searched the internet about this and I had no luck. 


To summarize that:

- The frog has developed a weird brown muck around its face and it tries to wipe it off.
- It is malnourished.
- I need to find a way to feed it.

That is all I can list for now.

Can someone help? Thank you for taking the time to read this. I appreciate it.

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## Caspian

Sorry for the lack of replies.

*Always* remember to feed your frogs. If you can't get crickets, go out in the garden and get some earthworms. Those work well, too, and highly nutritious.

Don't feel bad about it, many of us have made this mistake. Just don't make the mistake again, is all.

I don't think any of us will scold you for it. Everyone will be trying to help the frog.

I'm thinking the brown muck is actually shedding skin. Does the frog have a water source in the quarantine tank? Fully/Semi Aquatic frogs often shed in the water, which makes the process easier and also less visible. However, I may be wrong about the brown muck. Hopefully, an expert will see this thread. I can go alert some of the more experienced people on the forum if you want.

If the frog is still moving and hopping, that is a good sign. Try to give it crickets, maybe let the crickets run around for a bit. If the frog tries to get them, but is too weak, use those tweezers and tong-feed the frog [hold a cricket using the tweezers, make so it looks like the cricket is alive, keep on doing this in front of the frog and the frog may eat it.] Also, I'm not sure if force-feeding is viable with FBT's, but if it is, here's a how-to video. Don't force-feed unless absolutely necessary.
How To Force Feed a Frog or Toad the Right Way !EMERGENCIES ONLY! - YouTube

I'll begin researching now as well. Maybe I'll find something.

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## sjham16

Thank you so much!

I have crickets. I put my froggy in a quarantined with water and things and dropped a few crickets in there. Everytime a cricket touches the frog, it cringes and hops off. The frog is also sitting in a corner for  while....
I would love it if you could contact some experts!
Thank you so much for your help!

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## Caspian

When I joined this forum, it was because I had a similar problem with my frogs. And the people here helped me right away. Ever since, I've been trying to live up to their example. Also, I like helping other frog owners  :Smile: 

How big are the crickets in comparison to the space between the frogs eyes? If they are bigger than the space between the frogs eyes, the frog won't eat them. Could you post some pictures of the frog? That would really help.

I'll go get Grif, Heather, and some of the other experts.

Not a problem. Helping other frog owners is one of the things we do here at the Frog Forum.

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## Lynn

> Hi!
> This is my first post.
> 
>  I'll confess that I forgot to feed my frog for a week (I regret it) and it is malnourished. 
> Please don't attack at me that how bad of an owner I am. I'm quite aware of that and I want to change that.
> I placed it in quarantine.
> First of all, the frog developed some weird things on it.
> My firebelly toad has a weird brown transparent covering around its mouth.
> 
> ...


Hi sjham16,
I'm afraid I have never owned a fire belly toad. I wish I could help you get him to eat   :Frown:  
I'm sorry to hear he sounds so weak.
His problem could be more than the lack of food if you have been unable to care for him properly.
Try not to touch the frog unless necessary. 

I do know they have big appetites and should be fed- daily. So keep offering him dusted food. 

Here is a small list of some  rescue products--you may still be able to get it tonight at a big pet supply ie petco?
Fluker&#39;s Liquid Calcium
Repta Boost Insectivore/Carnivore
Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL SALES :: By Product Type - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center

Continue to keep him it in a clean environment with a few  - shallow- clean-- de-chorinated water  dishes . It's a start.

My guess - which is a shot in the dark .... the brown stuff around his mouth could be from having shed his skin. 
I would not attempt to remove it.

Here is the contact information for Dr Frye:
dr.frye.vetatmilan@gmail.com , or by calling my office at 734-439-2273
He will help you via email - payment for medication - only - is done via credit card

Lynn

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## Colleen/Jerrod

We need to see detailed pictures of the "muck". This sounds like some kind of infections, but to be sure we need to get a good look at the frog.

Not feeding the frog would not cause this. I'll post the link to some questions for you to answer. You will need to repost the answers here in your thread. http://www.frogforum.net/pacman-frog...enclosure.html

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## bill

i see you have the best of the best in here helping you.  :Smile:  i only want to add one thing. about the frog being over sensitive. if you were accidentally touched by something as large and metal (in comparison to the frog) you would be a bit hesitant to move as well, so i wouldn't add that as a "symptom". 

best thing you can do for your frog right now is answer the questions on the form that Grif posted the link to, add some pics so we can see what we're dealing with and we can go from there.  :Smile:

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## Hoppity100

Please don't use tweezers if you can buy hemostats instead or try clean fingers. I would never let mine go a week, I did get a malnourished skinny frog thru a store order I placed. I worked with him and he ate but I had to keep trying. I turn 20 crickets loose in my tank for 4 FB's and offer a wax worm every other day or so. To remove brown film I'd try a q-tip or dry cotton ball. I would keep dangling a worm or cricket in front of the frog. I do not give mine roaches, could not handle causing abd distress. I almost considered offering my skinny frog a wiggly strand of cooked spagetti but he took a bug finally. Only other measure is an eye dropper with baby food he might refuse and you'd have to be careful not to get it in his nostrils. Keep him warm, too. Hope this helps.

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## Hoppity100

Forgot to mention, my FB's have not had brown muck on their faces. If it is covering eyes and nostrils I would try a q-tip. For feeding try and not use anything pointed like tweezers, I see why the frog did not like it. Maybe this is why he refuses food. Why not try a single strand of regular sewing thread somehow wrapped once around a wax worm and dangle it? But keep trying as often as you can, even every 30 minutes to an hour, that's what I did. My frog was shipped like this and when I put him in the tank he sat on the log for a long time staring at his environment. I don't think he ever saw a plant before or wood or rocks or cave. He was probably in shock because maybe he felt free or just happy to be in a more natural environment than what he came from. Good luck with yours and don't give up.

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## missginger2177

> Thank you so much!
> 
> I have crickets. I put my froggy in a quarantined with water and things and dropped a few crickets in there. Everytime a cricket touches the frog, it cringes and hops off. The frog is also sitting in a corner for  while....
> I would love it if you could contact some experts!
> Thank you so much for your help!


I would also try and remember that crickets are very opportunistic and may try to eat on the frog, so I would not just be leaving them in there.  If you could get ahold of some waxworms those seem to offer some good quick energy.  Mine had a better appetite for the crickets once they had been tong fed a worm each (pet store frogs that were thin to begin with.)

*all advice offered herein comes from a complete novice sooo ... Ymmv

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## sjham16

Okay- I took some photos! They're kinda blurry.....



I also forgot to mention- there's this weird white spot on the head. 
The mouth part isn't red- my dad's iphone has this weird red sticker on it that reflected onto the water. But you still can see the affected area.

The tweezer I use are not the metal ones that cost over 15$. These ones are plastic.
Before, he seemed to eat fine with them.

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## Patsy

I don't know much about Fire Belly's but I think a picture will help us see what you are talking about. I wonder if the brown muck is a bad shed and it's preventing him to open his mouth to eat that's why he's afraid of the crickets? Like someone else said, don't leave the crickets in the tank with him they will possibly bite him.

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## Patsy

You're frog needs a vet. It looks like there is some kind of infection on his head.

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## Hoppity100

I put crickets in my tank and they all hide in leaves.

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## Hoppity100

He is thinner than my frog was. White spot....maybe he has a fungus?  I thought you used metal tweezers that were pointed, glad you have plastic. Its hard for me to get a good luck at him but a white spot sounds suspicious.

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## sjham16

Thanks everyone!
There were some people saying that I should take it to the vet....but my parents don't think that he deserves a visit to the vet.

I will take some more pictures tomorrow, and does anyone know how to treat fungus (as some people say what that white spot is)

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## sjham16

ALRIGHT BETTER PICTURES


I think the stuff on his mouth some how got bigger! I think that stuff is the reason why he can't eat.
Can anyone identify this?


more view on

EDIT:

He looks like he's in a lot of pain ):

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## Patsy

I'm sorry. By coming to this forum, joining and posting this question you obviously care for your frog and you have hopefully realized that forgetting to feed him was bad and you will never do it again. I'm not going to beat you up for this, we live and learn. Hopefully you learned and you have a chance to give this frog a happy life.

Please let your parents know that frogs are not disposable pets. They aren't a goldfish that you can flush down the toilet when they die. I know you have no control over this but when we decide to keep frogs as pets or allow our children to keep frogs as pets we have to realize that we are responsible for their well being. I'm sorry that your parents didn't take this into consideration before they allowed you to have a frog. I really hope that you frog survives this.

Keep your frog in quarantine and make sure to change your water daily to keep it as clean as possible. I know a lot of people email Dr. Frye for advise maybe he can email him some better pictures and he can give you some advice.

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## sjham16

Thank you all on taking your time to help me. I really appreciate it! Other people on other websites harassed me when I tried to ask for help.....

I will try to do more research on this...

Thank you. I hope you guys find 20$ on the ground. 
Thank you

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Obviously your parents are not experts otherwise you would not need to be here.

Your frog needs to see a Vet ASAP!!! This is not to be taken lightly. The infection your frog has could kill him if not treated. It will begin to spread and if not treated soon it could go beyond the ability for treatment to help him.

I'm sorry, but that is the truth. These animals are extremely sensitive and it is our respincibility to care for them once we bring them into our homes. They rely on our care to help them thrive. They are not disposable pets as was stated above.

They should be taken for medical care like any other pet whether it be dog or amphibian. Tell your parents he needs a Vet. There isnt much you can do on your own. He will need antibiotics and possibly force fed. A Vet can provide feeding syringes and a Critical Care formula to force feed the frog with to nurse him back to health.

Keep us posted.

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## Hoppity100

Well put. This frog may not make it if he has that spot and is that thin. Wish an attempt was made sooner. Good luck.

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## Caspian

I hope he makes it  :Frown:  best of luck, hopper!

I am sorry, I cannot sugarcoat this for you - I must be brutally honest: _Always_ put your frogs before yourself. If you've no food for them, go outside and get earthworms. If you're too lazy to get crickets from the store or even earthworms from outside, you shouldn't be owning frogs. I once had to dig through my compost bin, all the way to the bottom, to find earthworms for my frogs. Oh, and I had to do it in the dark, with only a weak flashlight. It wasn't fun, wasn't easy, and it was spooky too, but I wasn't going to let my frogs starve. That's the kind of dedication a frog owner should have to his/her frogs.

 If you simply forgot about the frog... I have no idea how you'd do that. I can't not think about my frogs for even 2 hours, even if I'm at school doing a test, on the computer playing a game, doing anything anywhere. Not once have I forgotten about my frogs for over 2 hours, and if you can forget about them for a week, once again, unless you *really* change your ways, you shouldn't be owning frogs.


Once again, I really hope your frog makes it. And I beg of you, no matter if he does or doesn't, *never* let something like this happen again.

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## Hoppity100

Now that I think about it, I don't know the history here: how long did owner have this frog or was it shipped this way or was it someone else's first? In any event, when a frog is getting thin to this point it needs help now.  I check my frogs many times every day, as well as my other tanks. I feel bad when I see this. I feel bad when I see bettas stressed out in those little cups at all the stores and many are dying and the employees never notice! Same thing when I find hamsters without water. I've found hermits without water, too. I wonder about this frog.

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## Caspian

That concerned me too... a photo of the tank would help. In it's *current* condition. Not right after you cleaned it, or when you first took a photo of it, but the closest time to when the frog got sick.

I check my frogs a lot. I don't do physical examinations or disturb them, just come out at night and use a dim flashlight, looking under the water to see their underbellies [I also check the water at the same time. A tiny bit green or looking off, and I refresh it ASAP], and look from above to see their backs/heads.

I always get that stabbing, pained feeling when I see unhappy animals at pet stores. The bettas in the cups are some of the worst to see, but hamsters without water and frogs with empty water bowls or really dirty water...  :Mad:

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## Hoppity100

Yeah I always check my frogs and other critters. I've taken in many bettas and feel bad for the ones left behind in the cups with their fins all tattered. One day I took every cup that had an inch of water in it and added more! No one said anything and I felt better. I'd give them each a plant sprig so they have something to look at. I've asked the pet store close to me if they could take all the feeder fish out of the huge tank and put in it the bala sharks and other shark fish because they were bullying each other in their tiny tank. The store could divide the feeder goldfish among the smaller tanks but they won't do it and always give me a blank look like they don't see a problem.

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## sjham16

Well, the frog was never like this for the first 3 years I got it. I took care of it, but then one week I just forgot.
I clean the water with a filter. Maybe it is because a cricket was rotting in there that caused it...? I'm gonna clean the tank soon....

I emailed Dr. F and he replied with a couple of medicines I could use. 
I used some Neosporin which he said was a sort of alternative to the meds he recommended.
I applied the Neosporin on the infected area (not on the eyes (should I apply it on the mouth??)
He seemed more active and started swimming around after I applied it! I don't know if it actually works that fast or if it even worked so...

Thanks for the support and lecture  stuff! I'll try to keep you guys updated

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## Hoppity100

Oh, glad you wrote. One cricket in the water should not cause this, do you recall when you had changed water prior to the illness or dead cricket? He may have stopped eating before you forgot about him for a week? Could it have been more than a week? A topical ointment does not work fast and how would it stay on if he gets wet? Is his skin any worse? You are going to start medication? what form, liquid? I have to ask alot of questions, otherwise I won't know. Did he swim because he ate or the water was changed? I can't figure out why he swam either. Maybe you can write and give more details? Thanks

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## sjham16

> Oh, glad you wrote. One cricket in the water should not cause this, do you recall when you had changed water prior to the illness or dead cricket? He may have stopped eating before you forgot about him for a week? Could it have been more than a week? A topical ointment does not work fast and how would it stay on if he gets wet? Is his skin any worse? You are going to start medication? what form, liquid? I have to ask alot of questions, otherwise I won't know. Did he swim because he ate or the water was changed? I can't figure out why he swam either. Maybe you can write and give more details? Thanks


Yeah, I changed the water before that! 
And I think the white spot thing got bigger. But he seems more active????? 
I used Neosporin to treat the infected areas. I think the med would stay on because he keeps his head above water.
 Dr. F recommended me some medication things, and I'm trying to scrap up money to buy them.
I hope that answered your questions....

Here are some more notes on the frog.....

He smells kinda funny???? He smells like his tank. Should I somehow give him a "bath" (no soap and water, just pouring water on him)? Or is he just a frog being a frog?
I'm going to try to force feed him tomorrow (if it works).
His skin color changes into 50 different shades of green.

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## Hoppity100

So you don't have enough money to care for him? If your tank smells and he smells then something is wrong. Mine don't change into 50 shades of green. I'm not convinced that you know what you are doing. Can't you take everything out of the tank then rinse it and change the water? Did you let your tank go? No I'm not sure you answered my questions.

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## Patsy

You need to put this frog in a CLEAN quarantine tank with a large water dish with clean dechlorinated water that should be changed at least DAILY. I don't keep firebelly's myself but I see them in the pet store all the time in just a large bowl sitting in it and hanging around the edges, so this should suffice until you can clean his tank. The frog needs a sterile environment while it's healing. While he is in there you need to tear apart his other tank and completely sterilize everything that is in there. You can clean the tank with 1 part bleach to 10 parts hot water. Then rinse, rinse, rinse until you don't smell the bleach anymore. When you think you don't smell it, rinse it 3 more times. Then when you think you don't smell it, ask someone else to smell it! Then dry it out real good. He smells funny because he has an infection on his head and he's in a dirty tank. Don't clean the tank "soon" clean it NOW!

You did good by contacting Dr. Frye and scraping up the money to get the medicine needed. Hopefully all of this is going to help your little buddy.

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## Hoppity100

Yep, this is what I would have done except I take care of my frogs every day, just got back from buying crickets in fact.

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## Heather

Hi. Yes, please remove the frog from the enclosure and scrub it out. Use the 1/10 bleach water solution and a paper towel to wash it. Rinse it out several times and then rinse it twice more with dechlorinator, with a double dose of the dechlorinator, to neutralize the bleach. The bleach is toxic to him so it must be completely out of the tank. It should feel squeaky clean. No residue or slime at all. If it it still slippery, rinse it again, try using a clean paper towel to rub it off, then follow with the double dose dechlor rinses to be sure the chlorine is neutralized.

Rinse all decorations and rocks in boiling water and /or rinse with the bleach solution, as above. 

Another option is to just start over with another tank, washed with very hot water.

I am concerned your frog has a fungal infection. He is swollen and uncomfortable at his mouth and lips, making him not want to eat. This needs treated. He needs SSD cream and possible systemic anti fungal treatment. It is likely he may also be carrying a parasite, which would require panacur. You can get these meds from a local vet or Dr. Frye. Dr. Frye will often send them to you after a brief summary of the situation and photos via email and phone. 

You can still cure him, but the weight loss is not good. The more weight he loses and the more the infection be able to spread he will not be able to fight it. 

To not be upset with yourself. Let's move forward and get him better. 

I myself would get some reptaboost and syringe feed him. He will not have to chew it. Just be careful to only put in small drops at a time so he does not aspirate (choke) on it. 

How big is he from snout to vent in inches? 

I'll be waiting to hear. Good luck! Keep in mind that these interventions have to be done very soon or he will not make it.

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## sjham16

The length of snout to vent is about 1/12 inches.

Thank you for the cleaning procedures! I will use them ASAP

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## sjham16

Hello everyone!

I left 4 crickets in his enclosure and two of them were gone! I think he ate them. 
He also seems to be prowling around for more.

The white spot on his head seemed to get smaller! The 'muck' also seemed to fade away a little.

Thank you for giving me ways to clean the tank! 

I'll try to give an update everyday.

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## Heather

You're welcome. 

Do you have a local vet that treats amphibians? 

I would email Dr.Frye, even if just for an opinion. 

Try the reptaboost if you can.

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## Hoppity100

That's good to hear, please change his water often and feed him. I'd still watch him for white spot(s) coming back, his weight and appetite, and brown muck. Hope everything turns out okay.

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## Caspian

Very glad to hear he's getting better  :Smile: 

Heather, Patsy, and Hoppity100 have been giving you excellent advice. If you want your frog to live, you _must_ do as they say, such as answering questions, no matter how embarrassing or grim the truth may be, working hard, and if need be, spending every last penny on saving the frog.

This is no time to be upset, or feel guilty. This is the time for action. Hope is there, and it is getting stronger. Now, lets make your parents proud, and save that little guy, with, or without their help!

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## Hoppity100

Well said, thanks!

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## Patsy

That's great that he seems to be doing better. Don't give up though, be religious with cleaning and the Neosporin. You might be tempted to slack a little because he looks better but don't. Listen to Heather, get some Reptiboost. He's lost some vital nutrients that a few crickets aren't going to help regain them.

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## sjham16

He died today..... RIP nameless froggy.

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## deeishealthy

:Frown:   sadness

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## Will

Sorry to hear about the poor little guy.

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## Patsy

Sorry to hear about your little guy. At least you know that you did try your best to help him. Hopefully you gained some valuable knowledge from this experience and this won't happen again.

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## Hoppity100

Do everyone a favor...don't get anymore frogs.

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## MatthewM1

> Do everyone a favor...don't get anymore frogs.


That is completely unnessecary, keep comments like that to yourself. 

They came here because they felt bad and need help, not to be scolded, saying things like that don't help anyone. 

We're all here to learn, everyone makes mistakes, sadly this mistake ended worse then some others. 

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2

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deranged chipmunk, helm96

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> He died today..... RIP nameless froggy.


I'm sorry for your loss. You did what you could. :Frown:

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Do everyone a favor...don't get anymore frogs.


Hoppity these are the kinds of comments that get you in trouble. I won't point out the rest at this time, but you need to be less abrassive and more sympathetic toward this member. They just lost their frog and they don't need you being rude and driving them away.

You are not without mistakes so don't point fingers at others mistakes. People make mistakes and must learn from them.

This is a warning. Please be more helpful.

Thank you!

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deranged chipmunk, helm96

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