# General Topics > Plants, Plant Care & Plant Identification >  Potted plants and WTF? Also spanish moss.

## elly

Bad idea or terrible idea?

Newbie here! I'm considering getting a dumpy tree frog and an 18 x18 x 24 Exo-Terra. I already have lots of the plants mentioned here, but I don't know if can do a natural terrarium. For one I don't know where to find springtails, I don't know what eggcarton refers to and I'd like to start out with a fairly easy to clean/ rearrange tank.

It's so tempting to clean and repot my plants, but I can also just picture a dumpy throwing its weight around, knocking over everything and maybe getting hurt in the process if the pots were weighted.

And, does Spanish moss carry an impaction risk like spagnum? It seems longer, maybe harder to accidentally eat? EDIT: NEVERMIND. This will teach me to check tags more thoroughly in the future.

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## Ryan

Welcome to FF Elly  :Smile:  we have a care sheet on whites tree frogs on frog forum Frog Forum - White's Tree Frog Care - Litoria caerulea 
If you are planning To do a Naturalistic vivarium, i would suggest plants that will take abuse well, Sansiverea (Snake plants) Deffibachia (Dumb cane) and golden
 pothos work very well for plants. egg crate is a plastic grid used in chicken farms to provide a stable surface for egg cartons, They also make very good use in Vivariums!
If you are still interested in planted vivariums, this article has very reliable info http://www.frogforum.net/content/bui...struction-146/

WTFs don't usually take to vivariums very well, Plants that are very hardy (as mentioned above) can be used but once you plant them, allow the plants to grow for 
a few weeks before getting your new frog. Branches that are thick as the frog should be used, These can be found in the woods (Be sure to bleach and boil the wood 
before use and be sure that it's safe for the frog) or at your local pet store. 

IMO i would avoid any loose mosses (including Spanish moss) for frogs that can be clumsy feeders.

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## Paul

You can buy springtails from any number of online stores for the hobby. Josh's Frogs and NeHerp are a couple examples.

Eggcarton --- I assume you are referring to eggcrate which is only used in tanks where you are creating a false bottom (a False Bottom is where you raise the bottom of the tank up to create a void for a water reservoir. ) If you are not creating a water feature than you do not need this. Eggcrate is actually a light defuser panel for drop ceilings and can be found and big box hardware stores. 

Sounds like this will be your first natural Vivarium (Vivarium is a terrarium designed for living animals to live in). You might want to take a few minutes and read through the Vivarium Construction 101 thread to see the common steps and methods used in building a vivarium.

Any questions please feel free to ask and when you start building your tank create a thread in the Vivarium section and share pictures as you go and ask all the questions you need  :Smile: 

Oh and welcome to the FF  :Smile:   !!!!

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## bill

Spanish moss, the debate is still out on that. Some say it's ok, others believe the moss creates a choking hazard in that the frogs may get caught up in it. Now, that is for live Spanish miss growing in the viv. As far as dried on the substrate, I would not use it, especially with as an aggressive eater that white's are. The risk for ingestion is just too high. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

> WTFs don't usually take to vivariums very well,


????????


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## elly

Thanks for your help.
I'm wary about trying to build a viv. Not because the frog might sit on and crush some of the plants, that's okay I have a lot of plants. Just paranoid that I might introduce parasites/fungus/whatever somehow despite cleaning them.

Checking out the viv thread now.

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## bill

Fungi are not necessarily a bad thing. They break down waste and keep the substrate fresh. A lot of people freak out when they see mushrooms in their Viv, but it's really a good indicator that the mini ecosystem is dialed in. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Ryan

> ????????
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


When i talk about vivariums Bill, i mean a planted tank. The word "vivarium"
 is sort of tossed around as any tank housing reptiles or amphibians, Im sorry I
didnt make that clear.

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## bill

No, I mean white's don't acclimate to vivs well? Was that a typo? Because they really do very well in vivs.  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Ryan

I really dont want to confuse anyone! the reason why i said that is because they tend to trample the live plants if they aren't chosen correctly,
 otherwise they make great captives but i was trying to say that they might damage the plants. Really sorry about this  :Dejection:

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## bill

Gotcha!! I was a tad confused by that one lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Josh

> Fungi are not necessarily a bad thing. They break down waste and keep the substrate fresh. A lot of people freak out when they see mushrooms in their Viv, but it's really a good indicator that the mini ecosystem is dialed in. 
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


Yes, I dream of the day that I finally see mushrooms in the viv. I'll know that my viv is healthy, and they are also beautiful IMO  :Smile:

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## elly

Now that I think about it the most intimidating things about the viv tutorials I've seen are the water features. Filter arrangements look troublesome. I'm thinking about putting down a drainage layer, put in some plants (pothos, snakeplant, lucky bamboo), add some springtails and just use a very large water bowl for frog soaking purposes.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Oh. and I finally gave in and bought the terrarium. Yep. Thanks to this forum I'm also preparing a tall plastic storage bin as a travelling frog-carrier or emergency tank. That was a really useful thread.

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## elly

And if (unlikely) I decide against actually getting a frog, I'll still have a beautiful (though expensive) place to display tropical plants.

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## irThumper

Is live cushion or sheet moss safe to use?  Especially if you don't feed on it?

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## bill

I've grown sheet moss in my white's tank a few years ago, but the first time I thought I saw one swallow some, I yanked it in favor of leaf litter. I know they can't swallow one of them! Lol I prefer sheet moss for smaller frogs like darts or mantellas. Besides, leaf litter is what they would encounter in the wild anyway. 
Cushion moss is a real pain. It grows ridiculously slow, and you have to be very patient with it. Normally what happens is you put it in, then spore pods appear, then die, then the moss  "dies" off and people rip it out because it's ugly. But if you are patient and leave it alone, in about a year, it will be beautiful again. Downside is waiting a year with ugliness in the tank. Lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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irThumper

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## irThumper

> I've grown sheet moss in my white's tank a few years ago, but the first time I thought I saw one swallow some, I yanked it in favor of leaf litter. I know they can't swallow one of them! Lol I prefer sheet moss for smaller frogs like darts or mantellas. Besides, leaf litter is what they would encounter in the wild anyway. 
> Cushion moss is a real pain. It grows ridiculously slow, and you have to be very patient with it. Normally what happens is you put it in, then spore pods appear, then die, then the moss  "dies" off and people rip it out because it's ugly. But if you are patient and leave it alone, in about a year, it will be beautiful again. Downside is waiting a year with ugliness in the tank. Lol
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela



What kind of leaf litter is good for the WTFs and where do I get some? How often should it be changed out? 

That's funny that cushion moss grows so slow in the viv! We had some that started growing on our sidewalk next to the down spout last fall, and by spring it would have made a decent amount for at least a 10+ gal tank... then all the rain went away and we wound up with a heat wave that doomed it. There is still a little dried up club by the neighbors that no one bothered to scrape up, I plan to watch to see if it comes back to life when it starts to rain. I want to put together a test terrarium and see if I can duplicate growing conditions to make it grow... not going to put a hunk of concrete in there though, lol. Another thing the stuff loves around here is old rotting three-tab roofing, not going to put that in my tank either  :Wink:   Might try some kind of wood, but I would want to scrape the moss off it and transfer it to the tank, not the wood.

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