# General Topics > Vivarium, Terrarium & Enclosure Discussion >  Whites Tree Frog Vivarium Build Thread

## Michael

Alrighty, I have most of what I need to start my new WTF vivarium. I am using an aquarium that is 25x18x25.

This is the current vivarium. I plan to use some of the plants from here in the new enclosure.


Here are the plants and some of the wood pieces I plan to use.



The log to the left I am going to use on the substrate, as a log.. the other two smaller pieces are flat on the end so I was going to silicone them to the background glass as perches. The last piece is mopani and pretty heavy, not sure what to do with it..

Here's what I have on hand so far..
"Great Stuff" spray foam (gaps and cracks)
100% silicone (black)
National Geographic IFS30 internal filter
25W (i think?) water heater
Eco Earth
Peat Moss
EarthGro Potting Soil
12 small potting baskets
Various rocks
Oak leaf litter

For substrate I was planning on doing a mix of peat moss with potting soil and then layering Eco Earth on top, there are no fertilizers in either so I figure these are safe. For the background I planned on coating it in Eco Earth and adding plants in to the background with the potting baskets. The method I planned to do this was to wrap the potting baskets in plastic wrap to make a hole to fix the basket and then create a drainage hole under the basket to allow it to trickle down and drain to the bottom.

Am I missing anything? I was thinking about doing the back and sides of the enclosure with spray foam.

----------


## Amy

Looking forward to watching the progress!

----------


## Michael

Looks like it's a 50 watt heater not 25 watt. I was able to score some cork bark pieces at the LFS so that should make the background look a little nicer. Still need to set up a temporary home for my WTF though..

----------


## bill

Sounds like you have everything you need to start it up. A little confused about the basket method. But hey, whatever works lol what sized baskets are you using?


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Michael

> Sounds like you have everything you need to start it up. A little confused about the basket method. But hey, whatever works lol what sized baskets are you using?
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


Well here is my idea, basically I was going to make pockets in the background to fit the baskets filled with soil + plants and then use a tube to cut a hole so the basket can drain to the false bottom.

These are the baskets I am using: Amazon.com : Hydrofarm Net Cup, 3-Inch, 12-Pack : Patio, Lawn & Garden

I will probably pop in and out tonight, I just broke down my enclosure and I placed my whites in to a temporary 35 gallon hex with a branch to cling to.. hopefully they will be not too stressed out.

I am going to work on my false bottom + background tonight and hopefully have it cured and frog safe by Monday morning.

----------


## bill

You can lay the baskets in as you foam. Small balloons inside the pots will keep the foam out. Then it's just a matter of poking holes in the foam after it all cures  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Michael

Sweet i will try that.. i have cut my false bottom, so far so good. It's a perfect fit.

Next step here will be do I want to do a pool or just go with water under the false bottom? I'm on the fence on this one. I am going to cut my PVC pipe for the legs of the false bottom now but for a first time DIYer should I mess with cutting a section for an accessible pool?

----------


## bill

Well, with the stuff you are working with versus eggcrate, I would probably pass. But why not give it a go? You can always fit the piece of floor back in if you change your mind. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Michael

Actually I am working with regular egg crate, I pony'd up and found some at Menards.

----------


## Michael

Progress so far.. 



Cutting the PVC pipe with a saw by hand was a bit of a PITA but I was able to get 6 support pipes out of the pvc I bought. I haven't cut a water section out yet, I'm going to have to though. Once I have the false bottom in, and I find a way to create a maintenance panel of some sort to service the filter or change out the heater I will start my foam background..

----------


## bill

I hope you are planning on more that 4 total supports. That sucker is gonna sag bigtime!! 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Michael

> I hope you are planning on more that 4 total supports. That sucker is gonna sag bigtime!! 
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


There are 6, I've cut a section for a pool so 6 should work, I will test it out to see if the support with 6 is enough.. If not back to Menards tomorrow..

Something I don't think I've seen but seems like a good idea... I have cut the egg crate for the background. I am thinking I will make the background outside the tank and then add it in. This will allow the background to be removable in case I need to ever do a break down of the tank.

Here's a picture of what I've come up with..



I can't find my zip ties at the moment so I am looking for them to complete the pool section. I have cut out some fiber glass screen to separate the egg crate from the substrate.

Next step, down to the basement to begin my foam background! This will probably be the most difficult part.. I am going to cut more screen to cover the back of the background too to keep it sticking to the plastic as I lay down the foam.

The egg crate has been easier to work with than I thought. I am very happy with what I have so far.

Any missteps I may be making by all means let me know! This is my first time around on this lol..

----------


## Michael

Uhhh yeah, wound up working on this throughout the night and then some..

I took some pictures but they didn't come out that well, but here they are.

I needed a way to access my filter and heater... I luckily had a flat stone from an old aquarium wood decoration, I used this to make a trap door of sorts.. should work for what I need.


So this is what the tank looks like right now, I haven't added substrate yet. I figure I will mess with that when I have a fresh mind.


The background is still a work in progress. I woefully underestimated how much foam you get in those cans, it's not a lot. This background took 4 cans. I was able to adhere it to egg crate, so now the background is completely removable. I also ran out of silicone but I don't think it will be all that noticeable once the plants and moss are in. I was able to do 4 'holes' to rest my planters in, I will take more pictures of the background tomorrow because it's really not near done yet. I can say the absolute worst part is spreading the silicone, what a mess!



I have a box fan blowing on the background right now. I assume it will need at least one day to cure. I don't think I will be putting this all together until Monday night at the earliest, I used a lot of foam.

Hopefully it will come together nicely!

----------


## Michael

I really newb'd it up on the background, mostly from being impatient. The foam expanded more over night, did not anticipate this. I had to shave excess foam off to get the background to fit. Tested it out, fits OK but the back did warp a little, so the back is not perfectly flat.

I will need more silicone to fill in the gaps and then add more peat moss. Once the background is finished and cures I should be able to slap this all together. Heading out to get more silicone now..

----------


## Lija

Looking good! As far as can tell  :Wink:  going to follow this and learn more.

----------


## Michael

> Looking good! As far as can tell  going to follow this and learn more.


Thanks! This has been a bit humbling. I am good with egg crate but I really did bugger up the background. I am trying to fix it, hopefully I will be able to. I picked up some more silicone to fill in the gaps of exposed foam. I added more peat moss to it to adhere.. I will check back on it later today. I was REALLY hoping to have this cured and ready to go by tonight or Monday morning, I am shooting for Tuesday now (unless I am really under estimating the time to cure the foam and silicone).

My only other real concern is, I may have over estimated the size of my tank.. it's starting to look pretty cramped with the background and wood pieces in!

I will hopefully have some good pictures of the background tonight.

----------


## Lija

Darn. I might get the same problem too. No more shopping for plants for me until start. And the store people just called that they just got in new shipment of terrarium plants  :Frown: (((
 And i cant find any wood that i like  :Frown:

----------


## Michael

I finished touching up the background. It came out okay, I would have used less foam in retrospect. Hopefully once I add plants and moss the warts will not show on it.

----------


## Lija

Wait. You are doing background outside the tank and it is not attached to a back wall?

----------


## Michael

> Wait. You are doing background outside the tank and it is not attached to a back wall?


Correct. It is attached to egg crate and will be dropped in once cured.

----------


## bill

Lessons, lessons, lessons. Ya know why you rarely see backgrounds built outside of the tank? Because they never work out well in the end. Most people either give up and do it in a conventional way, or fight with it for a while get it to fit and end up rebuilding it when it pulls away after some time  :Smile: 

Michael, this is all something that you can't rush. A lot is hurry up and wait. I think you are finding that out now. Foam needs at least 24 hours to cure, sometimes longer. I have had foam that I applied heavily and still hadn't cured 3 days later. Take your time. Don't rush things, your tank will look better in the end.  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Michael

> Lessons, lessons, lessons. Ya know why you rarely see backgrounds built outside of the tank? Because they never work out well in the end. Most people either give up and do it in a conventional way, or fight with it for a while get it to fit and end up rebuilding it when it pulls away after some time 
> 
> Michael, this is all something that you can't rush. A lot is hurry up and wait. I think you are finding that out now. Foam needs at least 24 hours to cure, sometimes longer. I have had foam that I applied heavily and still hadn't cured 3 days later. Take your time. Don't rush things, your tank will look better in the end. 
> 
> 
> Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela


You're right, it did not work out. The background looks nice but it does not quite fit correctly. Perhaps I should go with tree fern panel or something similiar.

----------


## Amy

Can you trim it down at all to fit?  That bites.

----------


## Michael

> Can you trim it down at all to fit?  That bites.


Possibly. I know I can't start over, my fiance is already on me about spending money on this when we have a wedding coming up lol..

----------


## Paul

It is looking good!

Bill is 100% right patience is the key with using Spray foam for the background. I have found that if you are wanting to make it thick in places it is best to spray a thin layer and let it cure for 24 hours then spray another layer and let it cure. 

Another thing to keep in mind with using silicone as the adhesive for your background covering is that you really only get 1 shot at covering the background good. The silicone will not stick to itself when you try to apply additional coats. It may look good, but it WILL peal away and start falling off over time. I hate to suggest it, but I would suggest you count this first run at the background as a test and maybe start over. Now that you know how the foam expands and what to expect. You will get a much more durable end product this next time. 

Another thing to think about is what is going to hold your Background in place once it is in the tank? With it being built out of the tank you really need something to hold it in place so it doesn't fall over randomly and potentially hurt your frogs. I built part of the background for my current build out of the tank, but once the pieces were fit into the tank I used more spray foam to basically glue them into place. 

Here is a link to my thread incase you want to see what I ended up doing. 

http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...d-journal.html

I will be following your build along with you and can't wait to see how your vision comes together! Builds are so much fun!! (and addicting lol)

----------


## Lija

> Possibly. I know I can't start over, my fiance is already on me about spending money on this when we have a wedding coming up lol..


 Michael, Michael lol you gotta learn the art of kissing up and you will be just fine, seriously what women would resist a guy telling her he loves her, bla, bla, bla and finish the sentence with i need to buy more silicone  :Wink:  especially with wedding coming up! Congrats by the way!

----------


## bill

Make her a ring out of silicone and a nice piece of quartz. That should calm her down lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

----------


## Michael

The background actually fits.. it's just not straight in the back. I can get it in there but it fell over.. I pictured my frogs being crushed by it so I said fuggettaboutit.. I am going to try to shave some of the background off in the back then silicone it in. If that does badly, I am going to try tree fern panel or something similar. The false bottom is already installed, I did that part right I think.. lol

----------


## Michael

> It is looking good!
> 
> Bill is 100% right patience is the key with using Spray foam for the background. I have found that if you are wanting to make it thick in places it is best to spray a thin layer and let it cure for 24 hours then spray another layer and let it cure. 
> 
> Another thing to keep in mind with using silicone as the adhesive for your background covering is that you really only get 1 shot at covering the background good. The silicone will not stick to itself when you try to apply additional coats. It may look good, but it WILL peal away and start falling off over time. I hate to suggest it, but I would suggest you count this first run at the background as a test and maybe start over. Now that you know how the foam expands and what to expect. You will get a much more durable end product this next time. 
> 
> Another thing to think about is what is going to hold your Background in place once it is in the tank? With it being built out of the tank you really need something to hold it in place so it doesn't fall over randomly and potentially hurt your frogs. I built part of the background for my current build out of the tank, but once the pieces were fit into the tank I used more spray foam to basically glue them into place. 
> 
> Here is a link to my thread incase you want to see what I ended up doing. 
> ...


I will have to do some more research. I went crazy with the foam. I wanted to do it outside of the tank cause I was really scared I'd goof it up inside. I guess I got some experience with how to use it, right??

I wonder if I really need to do a foam background. I really just want to get a background with plants, what are some other options?

----------

