# General Topics > Food, Feeders, Live, Frozen, Culturing, etc >  Dubia Roach setup before/after

## Kreamcheese

So when I first set up my dubia bin I was having a problem getting the heat to stay up. It's getting colder at night here and the only place I can keep them is in the garage. 


This was how my set up looked before I was given some ideas on insulating the bin. Very basic and had too much ventilation at the top, with no insulation to trap the heat.




This is my new setup. The inside has hardly changed but I did remove some egg crates to keep them less spread out. Only have about 80 roaches atm but I have a few hundred more coming within the next few days. 
First pic is my modified Gatorade bottle. I cut the top of the cap and glued some screen. I then tape this above the heat mat and it will evaporate, giving some humidity (The tape keeping it secure so it wont tip and spill when I open the bin).



The next two pics are where I placed the heat mats. I have them both attached to the zoo med rheostat so I can adjust the heat on them as needed.




And the final two pics are the finished product. I insulated the bin with some nice thick blankets. The inside bin has a cut out on top with screen. Now my temps are staying close to 100 and then the 90 range even at night, also about 45% humidity...very happy about the end result. 




Any suggestions on anything else I could/should change let me know. Would like to thank Steest, Sublime, Monsterpyxie, BG, ViperJr and anybody else that has been so helpful the past few days  :Smile:

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## Jeff

Needs more roaches, then it will perfect = )

Just to save you or anyone reading a little cash, I know those zoomed rheostats often sell for upwards to $20-25 at pet stores. You can just use a simple lamp dimmer (rheostat) picked up from a hardware store like Lowes or Home Depot. They sell them for $8-10 or so. I know it was discussed in another thread, but heat tape is also a very economical option due to overall cost and electrical consumption - approximately one square foot only uses about 12 watts and will peak out at 120 degrees F. The UTH's work great though as well!

You may end up playing around with the humidity factor as your roach colony grows, seasonal changes, etc. If you are noticing improper molts, increase the humidity by adding another bottle or keeping a larger constant supply of water crystals available. Being in the garage, they will be subjected to more humidity changes throughout the year as well as temperatures; just keep an eye on condensation buildup and the molts. Too dry - inability to molt properly. Too damp - you'll notice hypopigmentation. If you start getting condensation buildup on the sides and top, its likely too damp and you'll start seeing roaches that appear light orange and red in coloration. These roaches are more delicate due to the negative effect of their molting; same thing can happen to those who are injured during a molt. Furthermore, as the colony grows and a greater rate of respiration is achieved, you'll have less need for supplemental humidity. Your setup looks great,  just wanted to give a little tidbit in case you notice any of these issues so you know the proper means to correct it over time. 

It's my experience that B. dubia and those in the Blaberus genus like to be crammed together; so removing a few egg flats might have been a good call. You should have enough in there where every roach can hide out of view when disturbed, and it still looks fairly cluttered with em on the insides of the flats. Not so much that they are swimming through each other to get from point A to point B though ; )

Congrats on getting a setup to work out for inside the garage! I know this will be a valuable resource to many who only have this as an option, be it due to parental or spouse rules... I've actually had a younger customer ask me to mark "Beetles" on a package due to their parent's phobia lol!

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## Kreamcheese

Damn could've saved a few bucks on the rheostat! Well now I know in case I need another in the future. Luckily both of my UTH I got for about $15 a piece(Normally $32). And that's funny about marking beetles on the package. I actually still live at home so I had to show my parents some "Documented Proof" comparing the advantages of roaches to crickets. Thanks for the response

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## Sublime

@Andrew That's a nice inexpensive way that you fixed your problem insulating with blankets.  Looks good, setup is all clean - good job.  I see you used around a whole roll of foil tape to seal the UTH's to the side lol.  Did you get your UTH's on Amazon?  They sell them so cheap on their compared to retail stores.  I'm in the same position as you, roaches get such a bad rep.  Crickets don't, it's annoying.  I tried explaining many times about how there could be no infestation even if these tropical roaches got out, they didn't buy it.  Plus even if some did, it would only be a few if anything - not saying I would even let any out.  It's so easy to keep them in compared to crickets.  Crickets get out and it sounds like a god damn camping trip all over again.  I told them the advantages of B. Dubia's compared to the brown cricket as well, they bought it haha.  

@Jeff Very good information.  I didn't think the lamp dimmers would of worked the same as the ones designed for under tank heaters.  I thought they would only work on actual lamp fixtures with a bulb, now I know that for next time (Thanks for the tip).  Out of all the research I've done on B. Dubia I've never come across hypopigmentation - that's good to know.  Never would of thought they could become injured from a molt resulting from too much humidity, just knew about how they could have unsuccessful molts due to low humidity causing them to die.  I probably won't have to worry about too much moisture as I'm trying to reach a desirable moisture level.  A bit on the lower moderate side for humidity, want to get it a bit higher to raise production up.

Yeah right now I'm mostly raising the moisture level by just adding mounds of water gel crystals in there.  I'm definitely going to buy a roll of that heat tape though, very economical.  Want to raise the temperature up a bit as winter is approaching and use this same technique as Andrew did for insulating the heat.  Then I will be all good  :Smile: .  The patience level is hard to keep high when you want to already start feeding your pixie frog or any other type of frog you're keeping to give them one of the best possible dietary staples you could ever feed a herp in captivity with all the positives compared to the brown cricket (acheta domesticus).

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## Kreamcheese

I actually bought mine at a pet store called kahoots. They sent me 50% off any one item coupons. Had one for September, one for October. Both bought my heaters. And I did use a bit of foil tape to secure them in the spots I wanted haha. The bin has some awkward shape to it so the UTH weren't getting as close of a connection to it as I wanted.

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## Sublime

Oh ok, cool.  Yeah I know what you mean about the bins where you can't apply the adhesive on where it has an ergonomic design .  It's always the roughneck heavy duty Rubbermaids that are like that.

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## Kreamcheese

Once I get my new shipment of roaches I'm gonna add some fruits. I know oranges are good. Ever use grapefruit?

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## Sublime

No I haven't.  Other than oranges for breeding, I stick with carrots and apples If I got them.  No harm in using grapefruit.

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## Jeff

Be weary using the rough/rugged bings that have thick plastic; the insides are often just ever so slightly textured where newborn B. dubia nymphs (and those from other species) can actually get a grip and climb up them. I started noticing baby nymphs all over the place in my house caught in small spider webs of the basement and dead in random locations [all the more proof the will not thrive in or infest your home, lol]. I soon realized the issue was the bin when I caught some of the babies clnging toward the top and scurrying down the sides being able to climb up the wall. They were actually small enough to squeeze through the closed lid of the bin after climbing up to the top... Be sure to get the nice smooth plastic totes like those made by Sterilite to prevent escapees = ) And unfortunately, applying vaseline doesn't seem to help the matter for these bins.

You can use virtually any fruit or veggie to feed the roaches, although I opt to avoid avocado and rhubard due to known toxicity in birds and unknown toxiticty levels respectively (probably more applicable to reptiles). They can be picky, most of mine won't touch pineapple, parsley, cilantro, hotter peppers and other herbs. If they're thristy enough though, I convinced they'l consume almost anything. Also, be sure not to feed the green, "plant" parts of tomato vines or pepper plants if you are harvesting from your garden (very toxic to herps). 

As for using using citrus fruits and beta-carotene containing foods, I've actually not noticed any substantial increase in production using them. But hey, it never hurts to offer it up just in case!

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## Sublime

Ah man, that's no good having babies running everywhere in the house haha.  If that ever happened to me my parents would immediately make me get rid of them.  Instead of vaseline, I learned this from TheRoachRanch - apply clear packing tape all along the side walls.  This will do the same job as a smooth plastic tote or glass enclosure for these guys.  I've never had any babies escape so far, it's worked out great.  Yeah the baby nymphs have small projections on their legs that the adults don't have allowing them to cling on.

Thanks for letting me know about some of the toxic levels found in certain fruits and vegetables.  That's why I just like to be careful and use 'suggested' available fruit.  Good to know that citrus and beta-carotene speed up production from what most people have found.  I love taking care of these roaches, so much more than crickets! Haha.

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## Kreamcheese

Yeah I have sterilite and it's pretty smooth. I also made sure I added a nice thick strip of packing tape like Mark said. Did that with my first attempt too. I would honestly be a dead man if any got out so I need to take every precaution! In the last pic you can actually see my line of tape going around the top. 

Side Note: One of the coldest mornings here in San Diego. Literally shivering standing in my garage, yet the roach bin is a nice 90 degrees!

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## Kreamcheese

Mark I may be having the opposite problem now; too much heat! Have about 400 roaches now and I looked and the temp was 100. But I know it's hotter than that right where the heaters are placed. Seemed like all of the roaches were crowded under the food and water crystals. I turned off the heater on the side and I'm gonna see if that helps. Currently they don't really go up the egg crate at all and the spots where they were the heat pad isn't touching. At least now I'll be able to reduce the heat as needed instead of struggling to get enough heat.

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## BG

Keep the citrus coming. Andrew if you give them fruit,take out the water source.  It can get damp in there.  Its looking good.

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## Kreamcheese

Gonna go buy some citrus right now. Also I have a head of lettuce that is going bad; can I toss that in there for the roaches?

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## Sublime

Well lettuce is fine to put in there, but one that is going bad I wouldn't.  Will produce mold a lot faster and lose most of it's nutritional value.  So, really no point.

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## Kreamcheese

Threw out the lettuce. Got some fresh cut orange in there now. What do you think about my temps? The roaches seem to be avoiding my egg flats and staying on the bottom just packed on top of one another.

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## Sublime

Around 100 is fine in some areas towards the bottom, higher than that is unknown.  I keep mine at about 90-105 towards the bottom, they mostly bunker down towards the bottom.  The egg flats are their cool off area.  My whole ground floor is covered with a heat mat so they can't cool off down there.  If they're mostly on the bottom then that means the temps are fine down there.  Keep them that way, they will choose where to go.  I know ideally you should just have it 90-95 throughout for optimal breeding, so just try to achieve that and you'll be good.

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## Kreamcheese

Alright yeah that makes sense. I hooked the other heater back up. The entire bottom is basically covered with the bottom UTH so that's where they want to be. I keep checking on them which is insane, I need to just let them be haha.

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## Sublime

Yeah I do the same thing... Spent good money on these guys and want to make sure I get the most production out of them before they die... Seems kind of harsh, lol.

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## ConVexity

Crafty! lol
Macgyver!

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## Kreamcheese

Copied the idea from a link that somebody posted on a previous thread of mine. Hopefully I get some breeding soon!

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## MonsterPyxie

VERY good information in here, and I mostly approve of your new set up.

Only thing I have a problem with is the egg crate.

FYI, I have around 1300-1400 dubia....... on 2 egg crates. haha. They love to be cramped. I have my egg crate flipped over to match each other, and glued together with a glue gun in a few places to create a "hotel" of sorts. Mainly to be sure the egg crate doesn't settle onto one another restricting space. I will have to take a picture probably to show you.


As per stated earlier about avocado. I heard from a insect forum about a guy that fed avocado for a while to his dubia, and they always ate it up. I have since fed mine avocado a few times with no issue. So I wouldn't hesitate to feed them it again.

Also I have been feeding them banana's this week. Wait until the banana is starting to brown, I pulled the stem out to give them a starting point, and 2-3 days later, there is nothing left but a few paper thin parts of the peel  :Big Grin: 

you should feed a 1/4 or 1/8th of what I do, due to you having a small colony. So cut the banana, or avacoto in 1/4 or so, and drop it in there. Too much and it will go bad and mold, or such after a few days with that heat.


Mine bunch up on each other sometimes on the bottom. I open the top and they scurry over back to the egg crate.

I'll have to take a few pictures today. My males have been acting crazy, dancing/fighting, and in general just being unusual. dunno if its just heavy mating, or the banana's are fermented and there all drunk and routy. lol!

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## steest

NICE!!! I see you went with the blanket insulation! Wonder who post that idea haha... :Big Grin:  I am glad it works, that is so weird that your roaches are not going on the egg crates... Mine hardly leave them..  Cant wait for my 2,000 dubia to get here on thursday!

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## Kreamcheese

Monster thank you for that tip! I'm gonna go do the egg crate thing right now. I have about 350 large nymphs who will hopefully start molting into adults soon. Already noticed a few have. Probably have around 20 adult females and 15 or so adult males. Soon as those nymphs make it to adults I should be seeing loads of tiny ones! My temps are perfect ever since I re-did my set up.

Steest it seems now that most of the roaches crowd on the bottom of the egg crates now. I'm gonna do what monster said and I'm sure that will help the situation. And dang you bought 2,000?? Did you get nymphs or adults? or a mix? That probably cost a ton!

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## MonsterPyxie

heres how it sits as I open the top. little piece of egg crate is so they can climb onto the big bit. If you look at the bottom left, by the oranges, that black bit is all of whats left of two bananas, peels and all. just the stem's pulled out.



some stay under the little bit, as I put the oranges under there. The oranges where put in less then 24 hours ago



Heres how they are glued together, hard to see in there, but these two egg crates feel to be about 5lbs. they are absolutely jammed together in the bottom of it.



here are a few laying at the bottom.



Waiting just a bit longer, another week or two, then I will remove them all, clean up all the frass, shed exoskeletons, and such. then I will paint the clear bin black on the outside to block out more light. (clear plastic is said to have less pores in the plastics. Not even the babies can climb the sides of this container, so thats why I bought a clear one)


here is a picture from almost 2 weeks ago to show there numbers.

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## steest

Nice Monster, cool setup!

@Kream Yeah thats weird that they do that. I am sure it is nothing to worry about though. 
I bought small nymphs, was $80 so not too bad.

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## BG

Good work fellas. That is a nice healthy amount. Keep it coming. We have hungry mouths to feed.lol :Big Grin:

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## steest

My pyxie is only like 3.5 inches and I cannot believe how many roaches he eats. They definitely are always hungry haha.

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## Kreamcheese

Like the setup monster. I did the same with the egg crate and they seem to like it. They're crammed like crazy in there. The only problem i see with that is when I go to clean out the bin it will be hard to get them out of the egg crate. Guess I can just put the egg crates in another container while I'm cleaning it out.

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## Sublime

@Monster Damn, that last picture they're's a lot of adult nymphs ready to molt!  Do you keep them in a dark place in that transparent bin?

@Andrew Yeah, that's what I'm going to do... I already have 2 bins setup; one for cleaning, one for a feeding bin.

@Steesy 2000 nymphs are a lot to start out with, nice.  You're not going to wait for them to mature and breed though before feeding off or you'll just replenish?

I have a question... I've found these like tube looking isopods on the ground near the food.  Are these the babies that the females take back in to give live birth?  I know they give similar birth to mammals.

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## Kreamcheese

Mark did they look like this? This is the actual birth I'm not sure what they look like at the start when she takes them back in.

Blaptica Dubia roach giving birth - YouTube

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## Sublime

Yeah Andrew, I saw that video.  That's a cool video demonstrating it; I like how they're ghost white at first and then just crawl away and do their business.  I hope those weren't babies in the tube, because I threw one of them away thinking it was like food or something... Left the other 'tube' shaped pods in there.

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## Kreamcheese

Can't wait until most of my large nymphs molt into adults. Then I should start seeing the babies pour out.

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## MonsterPyxie

> Like the setup monster. I did the same with the egg crate and they seem to like it. They're crammed like crazy in there. The only problem i see with that is when I go to clean out the bin it will be hard to get them out of the egg crate. Guess I can just put the egg crates in another container while I'm cleaning it out.


With the egg crate you can ether pry them apart, and have 2 more ready to go glued together, or just bang the egg crate on the side of the container, and they will come falling out. you will see just how poor these guys are at holding on to anything, as they will tumble right out. You will still need to probably pull the egg crate apart to get the babies out. but I would only replace the egg crate when its saturated with frass.




> @Monster Damn, that last picture they're's a lot of adult nymphs ready to molt!  Do you keep them in a dark place in that transparent bin?
> 
> @Andrew Yeah, that's what I'm going to do... I already have 2 bins setup; one for cleaning, one for a feeding bin.
> 
> @Steesy 2000 nymphs are a lot to start out with, nice.  You're not going to wait for them to mature and breed though before feeding off or you'll just replenish?
> 
> I have a question... I've found these like tube looking isopods on the ground near the food.  Are these the babies that the females take back in to give live birth?  I know they give similar birth to mammals.


Mark,

I have seen a TON of molting since that picture. Seems like more males then anything that I can see. I am planning soon to take on the task of counting my male to female ratio. I fear I have way to many males, and thats why i have been seeing so many of them acting odd in the last week or so. I will then thin out the numbers of the males if I need too, by feeding them off. 

I keep them in what there in. The egg crate stays pretty dark, plus with all them crammed in there its darker/warmer and such then my old set up with a bunch of egg crate and tubes. I will be painting the outside of the container black, leaving a small ring at the top to peak in, that should be more then enough to keep them happy. They should be fine with a day/night cycle, but the darker the better for them.

as far as the pods you are finding, its a sign that the females are dropping the pods from stress. Not a good sign. If It's just a few, I wouldn't sweat it, but if there are quite a few around, you should recheck everything about your set up to see if there is something simple stressing them out.

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## Kreamcheese

Love how active and knowledgeable people are on this forum. Thanks for the advice Monster. I bought a pack of 70 egg flats so I'll have some glued together for spares when I clean out my bin.

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## MonsterPyxie

> Love how active and knowledgeable people are on this forum. Thanks for the advice Monster. I bought a pack of 70 egg flats so I'll have some glued together for spares when I clean out my bin.


sound's good, but don't waste too many. Once a month, or when they become saturated.

Remember the babies eat and hide in the poo/frass. So you don't want a bin/enclosure that is spotless. kinda gross, but its how they work. I find it pretty cool that they are that efficient. The roaches fascinate me more then any of my other critters, they are so much like a well oiled machine!

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## Kreamcheese

Yeah I know to only clean the bin rarely, like once every other month. But with my small numbers I may be able to go even longer. And the 70 flats only cost me $12 bucks so not that worried about the cost  :Smile:

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## MonsterPyxie

> Yeah I know to only clean the bin rarely, like once every other month. But with my small numbers I may be able to go even longer. And the 70 flats only cost me $12 bucks so not that worried about the cost


Right, you might be able to go quite a while, just pick out the old fruit and such. With mine, I will probably clean once a month, but im not going to worry about every single bit of poo, I will leave a bit in there for the babies.

Where did you get your egg crate? I looked around alot and only found bundles of a dozen or so. I paid about $1.20 each I'm afraid  :Frown:

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## Kreamcheese

Egg Carton Art Classroom Pack ~ Egg Cartons ~ Craft Accessories

Found this site from a well known Tarantula keeper/breeder. Robc is his name so credit goes to him.
Do have to pay shipping, think mine was like $8 or something like that. Still a MUCH better deal than any other place that I saw.

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## Sublime

Cheapest egg flats you can buy: Egg Flats &#45; Pkg. of 70, 12&#34; x 12&#34; ~ Egg Carton Art ~ Decorative Crafts

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## Sublime

> Mark,
> 
> I have seen a TON of molting since that picture. Seems like more males then anything that I can see. I am planning soon to take on the task of counting my male to female ratio. I fear I have way to many males, and thats why i have been seeing so many of them acting odd in the last week or so. I will then thin out the numbers of the males if I need too, by feeding them off. 
> 
> I keep them in what there in. The egg crate stays pretty dark, plus with all them crammed in there its darker/warmer and such then my old set up with a bunch of egg crate and tubes. I will be painting the outside of the container black, leaving a small ring at the top to peak in, that should be more then enough to keep them happy. They should be fine with a day/night cycle, but the darker the better for them.
> 
> as far as the pods you are finding, its a sign that the females are dropping the pods from stress. Not a good sign. If It's just a few, I wouldn't sweat it, but if there are quite a few around, you should recheck everything about your set up to see if there is something simple stressing them out.


Oh alright that's good; yeah thin them out if you think you have too many.  Man I just don't know what I've done to cause them so much stress, I mean at most I'll open the lid once a day to check for dead ones or replenish the water gel crystals.  We just had a heat wave so the bin got up to like 115F today at the bottom.  That probably stressed them out pretty bad, although they could of moved up the egg flats where it dropped to like 90-80s.  I keep them in a dark bin in the garage, they don't ever see much light so I don't think they are stressed from that.  Maybe just moving the egg flats around and stuff checking for dead ones stressed them out a bit or the heat I have at the bottom.

I keep them in close quarters together, only 3 egg flats in there with about 200 adults.  They pretty crammed near the bottom.  I'll try to take a picture of my setup so you get an idea of what I'm trying to come across.

I bought 2 heat tape pads off BigAppleHerp to bump up the heat and prepare for winter (I haven't got them yet in shipment).  Even though it says 90-100 at the bottom with one of my uth's on the bottom they're still not breeding.  I've sprayed the sides, left a water bottle in there, and water gel crystals are in there.  I'm going to add heat maybe with that insulating idea 'steest' showed us to solve this mystery.  It's really starting to make me mad.  I keep their food source well stocked: Oranges, carrots, and a homemade chow (Dog food, cat food, oats, and grape nut cereal).




> Egg Carton Art Classroom Pack ~ Egg Cartons ~ Craft Accessories
> 
> Found this site from a well known Tarantula keeper/breeder. Robc is his name so credit goes to him.
> Do have to pay shipping, think mine was like $8 or something like that. Still a MUCH better deal than any other place that I saw.


Haha, funny we both found the same egg flat source from Robc.  I don't even like T's, but I subscribed on Rob's channel because I like watching all his videos.  He has a million... One of his videos directed me and you to this Enasco sight for a great deal on egg flats.

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## MonsterPyxie

> Egg Carton Art Classroom Pack ~ Egg Cartons ~ Craft Accessories
> 
> Found this site from a well known Tarantula keeper/breeder. Robc is his name so credit goes to him.
> Do have to pay shipping, think mine was like $8 or something like that. Still a MUCH better deal than any other place that I saw.





> Cheapest egg flats you can buy: Egg Flats &#45; Pkg. of 70, 12&#34; x 12&#34; ~ Egg Carton Art ~ Decorative Crafts



good stuff guys, with shipping it comes to around 22 cents each, that is crazy good compared to what I paid!

reps all around  :Big Grin:

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## Kreamcheese

Robc is who inspired me to actually get T's of my own haha. Watched nearly all of his videos. Pretty cool how we both learned of the egg flats from him.

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## Sublime

Oh nice.  Yeah he seems like a pretty chill guy, he's got like 700 T's in his basement.. That's nuts.  He's the one exception for spider videos I'll watch.  I wish there was a frog channel replicated like his with stacks of videos.  Also his videos on Blaptica Dubia is kind of how I found out about him since he sells them on his own site with a colony of like 8000+.

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## MonsterPyxie

> Oh alright that's good; yeah thin them out if you think you have too many.  Man I just don't know what I've done to cause them so much stress, I mean at most I'll open the lid once a day to check for dead ones or replenish the water gel crystals.  We just had a heat wave so the bin got up to like 115F today at the bottom.  That probably stressed them out pretty bad, although they could of moved up the egg flats where it dropped to like 90-80s.  I keep them in a dark bin in the garage, they don't ever see much light so I don't think they are stressed from that.  Maybe just moving the egg flats around and stuff checking for dead ones stressed them out a bit or the heat I have at the bottom.
> 
> I keep them in close quarters together, only 3 egg flats in there with about 200 adults.  They pretty crammed near the bottom.  I'll try to take a picture of my setup so you get an idea of what I'm trying to come across.
> 
> I bought 2 heat tape pads off BigAppleHerp to bump up the heat and prepare for winter (I haven't got them yet in shipment).  Even though it says 90-100 at the bottom with one of my uth's on the bottom they're still not breeding.  I've sprayed the sides, left a water bottle in there, and water gel crystals are in there.  I'm going to add heat maybe with that insulating idea 'steest' showed us to solve this mystery.  It's really starting to make me mad.  I keep their food source well stocked: Oranges, carrots, and a homemade chow (Dog food, cat food, oats, and grape nut cereal).
> 
> 
> 
> Haha, funny we both found the same egg flat source from Robc.  I don't even like T's, but I subscribed on Rob's channel because I like watching all his videos.  He has a million... One of his videos directed me and you to this Enasco sight for a great deal on egg flats.



If you are moving the egg crate around and checking them out daily, that is the first thing I would stop. Peering in once a day shouldn't matter, but I wouldn't pick through the egg crate but maybe once a week. If there is a dead one in the egg crate, chances are they will push it out, just by moving around it. 

Think of it from there prospective. If the container is pitch black, then once a day it gets super bright, then all a sudden they get moved around, and such, scaring them to death, or more so making them react to the movement, vibration, and light, its going to stress them out, and make them go in to survival mode, trying to escape the things bothering them.

I know your intention is good, but I think this would be the root cause of there stress.

I'm also subscribed to Robc, and watch most his stuff since I like T's. but must have overlooked the egg crate thing. I seem to remember a video where he had a 50gal tank he put the roaches in, and it was pretty dang full, probably 10,000 roaches, and he said something about egg crates for cheap.

I would like numbers like he has some day. would be kinda cool just to take care of, but also trying to sell a few  :Wink:

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## Kreamcheese

That's something I need to stop right now too. I probably check my roaches multiple times a day and lift up the egg crates. I almost can't help but constantly check them and I don't know why. Should I check maybe once every two days or so just to replenish the food/water crystals?

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## steest

@ Sublime- Another thing that might be stressing them out is having too many males competing for food. I have no idea how many you have or if there are too many matured ones, just a suggestion.

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## Sublime

@Monster Alright, thanks for the advice.  Yeah I mostly try to avoid handling the crates (Just getting ones on the floor in front of the flats instead of behind after a couple of days), but I have been a little rough with them lately cleaning out too much.  I just get scared of wiping out a colony from bacteria growth, but once a week is plenty from what you've experienced and from what other people I have read.  It makes sense what you mean about someone large just coming in out of nowhere though.  Part of the other problem was I had a lot of people over the other day and they wanted to see them so I had to like pick up the flats and show.  Probably stressed them out a bunch... F me.

By the way, I forgot to mention I've only seen a few of those pods so it should be alright for now after I stop messing with them a lot.  Rob's colony is stacked, I would as well love to have those numbers some day, although I would need more frogs  :Stick Out Tongue: .  Unless I just sell for pure business as he's doing right now.  That video with the 50 gal glass tank is ridiculous how many dubias he has, lol.  He puts like a Tupperware filled with cantaloupe and they clean it out in 2 hours or less.

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## Sublime

@steest Yeah, I really need to get on that and start hand selecting out sexes.  I'm pretty sure from what I've seen the female:male ratio is vast, but I would need to examine closer.  For now I want to leave them be because my little dubias have just been stressed and haven't been down to get laid anytime soon because of me.  My whole colony is mostly adults besides a few clutches of babies (Was expecting a lot more production, but I'm learning from mistakes).  Recommended ratio is 1:3 male to females, or even 1:10 male to females.  What works best for you guys?

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## steest

I only have like 50 adults, 250 mediums, and about 2200 babies, so haha I do not have enough adults yet for it to matter too much. I got the babies just cause they are the cheapest and will feed them off as the others mature.

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## MonsterPyxie

I understand how it is. I was always checking on mine when I first got them. Also, I don't think you should worry TOO much about bacteria. We are talking about roaches here, haha. They are tough. Still want to clean them up every once and a while, but not more then once a week IMO.

I like 1:3 ratio, or 1:5. I will probably start with 1:3, and see if my males calm down. if they keep dancing around, and all this stuff they have been doing the last week, then I will go to 1:5, but I find that a bit extreme.

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## steest

Im pretty sure that nice guy over at phatphibs does 1:10, which is really crazy, but appears to be working for him!

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## MonsterPyxie

> Im pretty sure that nice guy over at phatphibs does 1:10, which is really crazy, but appears to be working for him!



well if I had bigger numbers, 5,000+ I wouldn't mind a 1:10 ratio, as it wouldn't really matter if all the females where being.... serviced.... or not. You would still produce large numbers of new babies.

but at smaller total numbers of roaches, I believe more males is better.

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## steest

Definetly agree. Haha all take all the adults I have haha, couldnt see feeding them off with what few I have. haha

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## MonsterPyxie

> Definetly agree. Haha all take all the adults I have haha, couldnt see feeding them off with what few I have. haha


Right, unless the males started fighting or something. Mine are acting goofy, so I think I need to thin them out a bit.

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## steest

Are they doing there mating dance/ wing flapping thing? It is pretty cool to watch haha

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## MonsterPyxie

> Are they doing there mating dance/ wing flapping thing? It is pretty cool to watch haha


well they have been staying on the edge of the crates, and outer edge of the bin. I have seen two males acting odd, looked closer, and one male was riding the other, under its wings, kinda piggy back. It must have been a fight, because when the one male got off the back, the other one took off! haha.

lots of movement, grouping up, and such mostly, dunno if I would call it dancing just yet.

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## Jeff

> As per stated earlier about avocado. I heard from a insect forum about a guy that fed avocado for a while to his dubia, and they always ate it up. I have since fed mine avocado a few times with no issue. So I wouldn't hesitate to feed them it again.


The issue isn't actually with roaches becoming harmed by the avocado, they can virtually eat anything lol. Roaches have extremely powerful antibiotics in their bodies in addition to vast arrays of digestive enzymes that allow them to virtuallly chug through anything. This is why the pest species can live in such repulsive environments; I think more studies need to be done on roaches in universities to explore the power of these natural antibiotics honestly...

The problem is the unknown toxicity to birds. Which translates into potential hazards for pet reptiles who are very closely related on the phylogeny tree to birds. Because most of us use B. dubia as feeders, its best to avoid foods that are known to be toxic on the chance that insects who consume it might transfer it to the herp in their gut. It's known to be deadly and lethal if consumed by birds and it is also speculated to be harmful if ingested by cats, dogs, horses... 

I don't think its an issue for frogs, as avocado seems to only be a known hazard for birds and potentially lizards, but I'd opt to avoid it "just in case" and to anyone who owns phibs and reptiles and are feeding dubia to both from the same dubia colony.

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## steest

Thanks jeff, you sure know your sh*t.  :Smile: 

And I am soo looking forward to the roaches you sent! Should be here today or tomorrow!

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## MonsterPyxie

> The issue isn't actually with roaches becoming harmed by the avocado, they can virtually eat anything lol. Roaches have extremely powerful antibiotics in their bodies in addition to vast arrays of digestive enzymes that allow them to virtuallly chug through anything. This is why the pest species can live in such repulsive environments; I think more studies need to be done on roaches in universities to explore the power of these natural antibiotics honestly...
> 
> The problem is the unknown toxicity to birds. Which translates into potential hazards for pet reptiles who are very closely related on the phylogeny tree to birds. Because most of us use B. dubia as feeders, its best to avoid foods that are known to be toxic on the chance that insects who consume it might transfer it to the herp in their gut. It's known to be deadly and lethal if consumed by birds and it is also speculated to be harmful if ingested by cats, dogs, horses... 
> 
> I don't think its an issue for frogs, as avocado seems to only be a known hazard for birds and potentially lizards, but I'd opt to avoid it "just in case" and to anyone who owns phibs and reptiles and are feeding dubia to both from the same dubia colony.


Ah, ok! good info! I didn't think of it from that "angle"!

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## Sublime

There should be a B. Dubia section with other feeder roaches on this forum run by Jeff.  That would be pretty sick, we could put together a care sheet.

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## Kreamcheese

Agreed that would be cool.

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## Jeff

Thanks for the kind words guys, everyone on this forum is so darn polite! I've actually started a draft care article via the following thread post:
How to Keep and Breed Roaches (Extensive) | Reptile Boards

I became obsessed with herp nutrtion many years ago after a study on Silkworms was released regarding an enzyme within them called "Serrapeptase." The benefits in combating Fatty Liver Disease and overall improving health of adult Bearded Dragons due to these guys was phenominal; and I soon found that most of our feeders have great things to offer (especially when gutloaded!) to our pets as well. Roaches reign supreme when it comes to ease of care and appealing to a wider variety of people and herps. 

Andrew - I've actually linked a couple of people to this thread who were interested in housing their roaches in the garage but were concerned about the winter chills. Thanks again for the great pictorial and those who contributed to it as well = )

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## Sublime

Ah, yes I think I came across your article written on them when steest put it up.  Really well constructed and concise with more than just B. Dubias.

Yes, roaches do reign supreme over all feeders.  They are my favorite, however it's also tough to beat earthworms (Night crawlers).  Care for those are undoubtedly easy and the nutritional value of one of those is very tough to beat.  I've never done a comparison of the European Nightcrawler to B. Dubia on a nutritional chart.  I'll have to see which one wins overall; I'm sure B. Dubia do.

I just wish I would of started my B. Dubia long before I got my pixie, but it happens.  I'm just concerned about his growth factor fed primarily on just crickets and night crawlers at the moment.  He eats a ridiculous amount though so he gets his fill.  Plus I fed him his first f/t hopper tonight, he wen't crazy.

I'm having trouble with my B. Dubia colony as of now as well, I'll probably have to replenish the colony when you get your colony sustained Jeff.  My problem seems to be more induced by stress than not enough heat.  I constantly check up upon them: refilling food supplies, water gel crystals, and dead ones.  "Monster" gave me some good pointers so I'll just try to follow some of that.  It's just frustrating when I've done so much research on these guys; I know pretty much everything from top to bottom about these guys... I just don't practice it or I need to re-do my setup or not bug them so much.  Just not enough experience with them is all I guess you could say.

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## Kreamcheese

Awesome Jeff! Glad my thread is useful to others. All the help I've gotten from people on this forum is insane so it's nice to know my pictures can help others.

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## Jeff

> Yes, roaches do reign supreme over all feeders.  They are my favorite, however it's also tough to beat earthworms (Night crawlers).  Care for those are undoubtedly easy and the nutritional value of one of those is very tough to beat.  I've never done a comparison of the European Nightcrawler to B. Dubia on a nutritional chart.  I'll have to see which one wins overall; I'm sure B. Dubia do.


Nightcrawlers are absolutely fantastic feeders; so long as they are obtained from a reliable source and haven't gotten into anything nasty. My only issue with them is _something_ inside of them has been found to cause funky things to happen to bearded dragons. Cheri Smith noted some dragons fed a diet of earthworms began to lose function of their back legs; essentially resulting in paraplegia. Very strange...and it seems to be isololated to this single species as far as I know. They make excellent feeders for amphibians on other reptiles though - super lean.

I'm a huge advocate for variety; its really hard to tell what is "best" just looking at some nutritional compositions that compare protein, ash, moisture, and fat. These are great guidelines - but they leave out soo much useful information when it comes to the little things. All of the micronutrients and macrominerals that are necessary to sustain normal function are completely ignored in these things. The more variety we feed and the better the gutload we feed, the more nutritional benefits we can guarantee for our pets. Plus; sometimes the nutrional charts neglect things that actually happen in the digestive system - the large amount of insoluble fiber in mealworms and zophobas for example (the complex carbohydrate 'chitin' in their shells) actually limits some of the fat absorbtion that can occur. Not sure a precise value, but these "fatty" food may not be quite as fatty after actually being processed than what a lab test reads. So in the epic battle of who reigns supreme between the feeders, I'd say all of them have their own benefits to bring to the table and variety is best. 

Also... while I'm on this topic: we have no idea what the individual needs of each and every herp is. Some reptiles and amphibians process fat a whole heck of a lot better than others and having less lean food doesn't bother them as much. Some animals immediately start storing it in bad places, like around the liver and other vital organs; others will store it safely in areas of the body (tails, subcutaneous, etc.). BUT. I've not seen a single case where an animal fed leaner bugs their entire life wasn't exceptionally healthy. So its safe to assume that the leaner you feed, the better! = )

And Mark, its going to be awhile before the colony is beefed back up again depending on the quantity your interested in LOL! But if you need some, feel free to PM me and we can chat about it. I know quite a few reliable sources that sell them at very reasonable prices (these are what I based my prices on), so if your hurtin' for them, I can find you the cheapest source = )

Andrew - Soo helpful! I've been asked to send my thanks from Kyle S. from PA and Robert T. from IL . Both are in a situation where garage is the only acceptable place for their buggies due to their parents so this thread is a life saver for em... better to have a nice pictorial to follow than to try to rig something up and just hope that it works!

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