# Frogs & Toads > Fire Belly Toads (Bombina) >  Question About Purchasing Firebelly Toads

## Faith

Hi everyone!

I had a question, I do hope it comes across right and I don't end up looking like a total moron here  :Stick Out Tongue:  I've did some reading around on here and noticed quite a bit of negativity when it comes to purchasing herps from pet shops (saw a ton of posts about Petco but they didn't have a whole lot of info on why.) I've had my own bad experiences in the past with other venues, so I can understand that. 

My question: Is there a/some significant reason(s) *not* to purchase herps (in my case, specifically fire belly toads) from Petco or a similar store? We've been considering it a lot lately but we live waaaay out in the boonies. Only place we have anywhere nearby animal-related is Petco (but I am more than up to the task of driving out of town if I must to get them if I have to.) 

I was just wondering if the ill feelings were more on how the animals were treated in there or if they were more prone to health issues, etc.? Of course I understand no one can answer this 100% (as every case is different) but any feedback whatsoever on this topic would be great. As I said, I read around but couldn't get a whole lot on why.

Thanks a bunch!

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## Heather

Hi Faith!

I would say it depends on how each individual store cares for their animals. Take a good look at them. If their eyes are nice and clear, they have the proper color and skin texture, are active if they're an active frog and relaxing If they're a more docile species, and are eating properly then it would be fine to purchase them. Have them feed the frogs in front of you. Chose the ones that look to have healthy appetites... they should have very slightly full looking bellies, but should not look bloated. Firebellies tend to have sleek bodies due to their activity level and swimming. They are generally active when in company of other firebellies. They are a social frog and are happiest when having at least one other friend  :Smile: .

 Keep in mind that a general guide is 10 gallons of tank per frog, so a 20 gallon or larger is best. Firebellies are small so you can probably add one extra frog per the 10 gallons, meaning you could technically have three per 20 gallons, so long as your water is kept very clean. FYI, Petco is having a sale on their Zilla critter cages with the included slider lids are half off right now  :Wink: . I just purchased a 20 gallon long yesterday for $39.99, which is great. It's about the same as buying the standard tank during the dollar sale at $20 with the $20 screen lid. 

I have purchased frogs from my local Petco and Petsmart that are healthy, and knowingly adopted some from them that were sick to recover them. I think it just depends on the techs and the teaching they have been given.

Do not follow their insruction sheets though. They are not good. Their humidity and temperature ranges are too wide. There is a nice care sheet here with accurate ranges.

At minimal, you will need:
1. Tank
2. Screened lid
3. Decent sized water bowl or water section in tank (they love to swim  :Smile:  )
4. Water dechlorinator
5. Live food: small crickets or roaches, and you can cut up small earthworms if you'd like. Do not feed mealworms or wax worms, their exoskeletons can cause intestinal impaction which is often irreversible.
(their food should be no larger than the distance between their eyes)
6. Amphibian/reptile calcium with vitamin D3 powder 
7. Amphibian/reptile multivitamin powder
8. Something to keep your crickets in such as a Tupperware with lids (holes cut in lid), cricket keeper, etc. 
9. Cricket water gel (or you can use a paper towel soaked in dechlorinated water).
10. Cricket food: you can use powdered store food such as fluker's, but even better:
(after rinsing in dechlorinated water) apples, oranges, bananas, zucchini, potatoes, romaine lettuce. Do not feed cabbage, and NEVER feed tomatoes - tomatoes are toxic to frogs. They can also eat grain cereals such as cheerios, fishfood flakes, and cat food.
11. Substrate:
There are different options here. If you are going to just drop their food in the tank, then avoid loose moss, small rocks or gravel and coco husk. It is best to use coco fiber or plain plantation soil, or larger rocks that they cannot accidentally ingest while hunting crickets. Small rocks and gravel can be used under a water area or pond though. 

If feeding in a feeding bowl or with tongs, you can use the others as above. Most people use the coco fiber for land and rocks for their water area. Moss can help keep humidity up, but do not feed on it. Having a pond helps keep moisture in the tank well, and they love it.

There are also different bottoms you can create such as hydroball underlayers and false bottoms. 

12. Water filter if you plan to have a pond or water area. You will still have to do water changes, but less often and it will aerate the water and keep it moving, preventing stagnant water and disease. Though a large water bowl with daily water changes makes them just as happy.
13. Something to hide in or under, such as a cave or plants. You can use fake plants so long as they are aquarium safe and smooth so they don't injure themselves. Live plants are nice too. If you go with live, lists and references can be provided. 
14. Thermometer
15. Hygrometer (measures humidity percentage)
16. Heat source:
UTH (under the tank) heat pads can be used. They are not burrowers, so you can place them on the sides or bottom of the tank. Sides are best. Choose one side so they can chose whether they'd like to be on the warm or cool side of their home.

Heat lamp: get one with a dimmer so you can adjust the temperature easily. 

Heat bulbs: an infared bulb can be used at night and during the day. A 25 to 50 watt is best. No higher than a 50 watt. 50's are nice bc you can turn them down, but if you need the higher wattage just turn it up. 

17. Lighting: a regular overhead light is fine. It is important for them to have a day and night cycle for proper sleep and metabolism, which also aids in their digestion. A second lamp with a regular bulb is fine. There are many styles of aquarium over head lights also. 

Live plant lights: fluorescent overhead lamps work great. Read the bulbs to determine what is best for you. A lamp light can also be used with a GE 6500 26 watt full spectrum light bulb. 

18. Side wall covers or backgrounds: this can help to reduce their stress while adjusting to their new home and can add a decorative effect. You can draw or make something, print photos, use gift wrap, aquarium or reptile terrarium backgrounds, fabric, etc. 

It is recommended to cover the back and two sides of the tank during their adjustment phase to help them feel safe and secure. 

If you have lots of plants or a hiding area this may not be necessary. 

19. A mister or sprayer to keep humidity level accurate. 

If you have a water area you'll find your humidity level stays higher.

20. Once everything is set up and ready and you have read through your care sheets....

Your frogs or toads  :Smile:

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mshine1217

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## Heather

Hope this helps  :Smile:

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## KingCam

> Hope this helps


You always go above and beyond to answer questions.  Kudos!  +1 rep

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## ZombieFrogz

agreed. It honestly depends on the "pet store". We got our 4 fire bellies from various stores. Just observe and if there are any sickly looking toads, check elsewhere. I have our 4 fire bellies in a 29 gallon split with plexiglass (half land half water) my toads seem to love that setup so it may be worth looking into.  :Smile:

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## Faith

Oh my goodness, thank you so much for all that amazing info Heather! Already printed it out, about to go over it step by step with the hubby. I've looked at SO many care sheets in the past few weeks, so much random info (like you said, especially info that varied too widely.) This is exactly what I needed. I had a few other questions from reading that list, if anyone has a second to give their responses, that would be awesome. 


1. Water dechlorinator - do you use this no matter what kind of water you have? We have tap water here (well on our property), I've seen info saying this is ok and this is not ok to use.


2. I can purchase the heat lamp and heating pads no problem. We built a shelf on our huge entertainment center (which is currently not being used for much of anything, lol) - it has a built in light right above where we put the shelf. Will that work ok as the regular overhead lighting? (It will shine directly over the cage, it takes a smallish bulb, I think 35 watts.) It has a dimmer built in (I know you said that for the heat lamp but this one has it too just in case it's too bright, etc.) 



Actually, I think that's the only two questions I have. Thank you again SO much! (And to everyone else who replied as well!)

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## MantisMan

u should use spring water, available in gallon jugs for like $1 or less if u know where to look
also they do fine at room temp and the small light bulb is fine, just to give them some light since they r diurnal  :Wink:

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Faith

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## Faith

> u should use spring water, available in gallon jugs for like $1 or less if u know where to look
> also they do fine at room temp and the small light bulb is fine, just to give them some light since they r diurnal


Great, thanks  :Smile:  We can get that pretty cheap here in our town so that'll be no problem!

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## Heather

You're welcome  :Smile: 

1. If you plan to use well water you may want to have it tested. Humans can tolerate bacteria and protozoans at a higher level than can amphibians. You can test the water for chlorine with litmus strips in the aquarium section. They are easy to use, just dip the strip in the water and compare it to the scale on the bottle. It may be easier to use spring water, as mantis has noted. Do not use distilled water, it pulls the nutrients out of the frog/toads.

2. Yes, that lighting is fine, though you may need a heat pad during the colder weather.

That'll be a nice place to view them  :Smile: .

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## Faith

We just had our well put down in December of last year, I'll test it just to see but using spring water will be no problem. I saw lots of negativity on the distilled water so glad to know that is truth!

I will definitely get a heating pad, that's no problem. Gets fairly chilly here in SC during the winters (probably nothing like y'all are used to up north but regardless, the little guys will be kept cozy!) I bought that stand with the intention of having my setup there (moved all the speakers and everything to the den just so nothing would disturb them  :Big Grin: ) 

btw, I looked around on Petco trying my best to find that tank but no luck. I will look in-store this weekend, hopefully it'll still be available!

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## Heather

Ah, South Carolina is so nice. I'm in Erie, Pa. It gets pretty cold here in the winter, brrr!

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## Faith

So I've heard! Been here my whole life, the weather is definitely a perk xD 

I looked over some care sheets and compared to some of the things I need that you listed above. One thing I couldn't find - stats for the hygrometer. I found plenty of areas (including the care sheet here) agreeing on the temperature the setup should be at during various times. But what about the humidity? I've never used a hygrometer before, wasn't sure what is a good reading for it for their habitat (like other things, is there absolutely too much humidity once you reach a certain %?)

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## MantisMan

if u have a water bowl/area they should be fine, if they need water they just take a dip  :Wink:

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## Faith

We'll definitely have either a bowl or a 50% water area  :Smile:  I just wanted to make sure I didn't *over* humidify them  :Big Grin:

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## Faith

Just came across an in-store special for setups. Trying to determine if it's worth it (for two frogs instead of three):


10 gallon terrariumFresh air screen cover 20" x 10"Screen cover clips5.5" reflector domeDay blue light bulbHeat mat terrarium heaterTerrarium linerHumidity & temperature gauge


I know to purchase another substrate (and not to use the liner) but I was wondering if the rest is worth it. Pricing the rest individually at Petco, it was $82. This is $62. But this is 10 gallons instead of 20 (and the day light bulb is blue, not white like I saw earlier on.) Should I just go ahead and buy individually with a 20 gal or get this? Any opinions appreciated as always (so sorry for all the questions, trying to keep them all here lol!) Doing as much research as I can pre-purchase.

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## MantisMan

u dont need the screen cover clips, i dont use any
blue bulbs r fine but any 40w or smaller bulb is enough for them
heat mats suck, i have a few that dont really work and they r a waste of $$, the toads r fine at room temp (66-74 degrees)
and u could probably do without the gauge seeing as they do fine at room temp with a water bowl and just keep those conditions constant, no need to moniter  :Wink:

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## Faith

Thanks Alex  :Smile:  I wasn't sure, going by lists I was given. Appreciate the feedback!

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## MantisMan

dont let peeps take advantage of u to make a quick buck  :Smile: 
know wat u need before buying so u dont overspend on rediculous, unnecessary things  :Wink: 
i'm always around to help with fbts, i wrote a care guide i just have to finish it  :Smile:

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## Faith

Oooh you need to, I'd love to see it  :Smile:  And yeah, I made that mistake with my chameleon. Although imo they are a bit higher maintenance, I bought SO much stuff that was useless (and ended up losing him to something so simple x.x)

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## MantisMan

i will post it soon, i just have to add a few more details  :Smile:

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## Faith

Look forward to it  :Smile:

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## MantisMan

postin it in a few mins  :Wink:

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## Faith

Oh wow that was quick!

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## Heather

The deal is okay, but I think I'd spend the money on the larger tank vs the kit. Its all about your preference though. I do like the heat mats though. Just depends on what you like. You can easily keep them warm in the winter with a red or black bulb. 

If you have a decent water area for them, the humidity will be fine. For those making a land terrarium with just a water bowl, 70 to 80 % is best.

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## Faith

Hubby and I talked it over, we're going to just go buy separates and get a bigger tank  :Smile:  I'm gonna hold off on the heat mats for now, as it's smoking hot around here at the current time (might get one if it's a rough winter for sure.) And if I can get it built the way I want it, it will be a divided tank, 50/50. Once we go find everything we need, we'll decide (but that's what *I* want to setup  :Wink:  ) Thank you again for all your helpful info!

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## Heather

Sounds great! Can't wait to see your design  :Smile: .

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## Faith

Water De-Chlorinator - is there a specific type I should use? I came across some for fish/tanks/plants, I wasn't sure if that was any good for frogs too or not (for a 50/50 tank & filter.) 

Aqueon Betta Bowl Plus Water Conditioner & Dechlorinator is the one I found here in town.

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## Heather

Any fish or reptile/amphibian dechlorinator is fine. I'm sure it's fine.

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## Faith

Thanks  :Smile:  I found some online, got that + a few more things. Gotta wait for all that to arrive before getting the toads, slowly but surely.

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## MantisMan

cant u use spring water just until u get dechlorinator?

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## Faith

Yeah but I wanted some on hand in case I couldn't get to it one day (I'm a bit...obsessive when it comes to having everything in any situation, lol.) I'm still waiting on the rest of the stuff I had to order online that we didn't have around here, so I just ordered some with that (since I need the rest of the stuff before I get my toads last.)

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## FinnyBird

It is much less costly just to buy a bottle of dechlorination solution than it is to purchase spring water, Mantisman. One drop of solution dechlorinates one gallon, and you can get a bottle of the stuff for four dollars.

I don't have experience myself with well water, but I don't imagine any issue so long as there's nothing wrong with the water itself (very acidic, looks foggy, etc).  As for buying them from pet stores, almost all places get their toads from the wild anyway. You really just need to look at their condition. 

For the light, it should be fine. So long as the tank is warm enough, you're good. FBTs aren't particularly needy as far as UVB lighting goes, though you'll need UVB to grow plants. 

As for the heating pad, just do not put it on any glass that is in contact with water. You'll crack the glass in no time at all. What you could get is a water heater which attaches via suction-cup to the glass. Just be sure it's not in a spot where your FBTs will stop for a rest and place their feet on it. I tend to put them in the filters, as the running water makes it more efficient and I can easily cover it up. Of course, I design and put together filters myself, so one which you purchase would probably not have a place for a water heater.

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## Faith

Thanks Finny  :Smile:  I ended up getting the dechlorination solution as like you said, it was much cheaper (I did the math.) I also tested my well water and it's fine (clear as day and no acidity to speak of) but I'll use it anyways to be safe. 

As for light, I got a UVB one that is over their basking rock. They chill out in the water 90% of the time but I occasionally see them wander over there for sunning. 

I got a heating pad but as hot as it is here right now, it's not needed. I considered putting it under the coconut fiber I have to see if that will help in the winter time but not sure how well it'll penetrate it (definitely not putting it under the half that is water.)

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## FinnyBird

Glad to help.




> ]
> I got a heating pad but as hot as it is here right now, it's not needed. I considered putting it under the coconut fiber I have to see if that will help in the winter time but not sure how well it'll penetrate it (definitely not putting it under the half that is water.)


When you do place it, make sure the toads can not touch it directly. If you decide to put it in the fiber, I would suggest getting reptile carpet and wrapping it around the heater so the toads can't burn themselves on it if they burrow. I don't know much about coconut fiber, as I tend to avoid it to begin with, so it's only speculation when I say that I imagine it should heat up just fine. It may take awhile because of how fluffy it is (air is an incredible insulator) but once it's warm, it'll stay warm for a long time. Again, this is just speculation from what I know of heaters and the materials.

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## Faith

I have about 5 inches of coconut fiber in their tank currently, with the reptile moss carpet on top of it. So they never come into contact with the fiber. I figured if I bury it way in there, it'll heat it up nicely but they won't ever be able to touch it  :Smile:  I'm gonna experiment til I get it right. I hate coconut fiber too (reason the carpet is over it, lol.) But it works good as building up height to get in the water.

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