# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  Beginner Treefrog Paludarium

## bobthebadger53

I have never kept frogs or had a paludarium, but I am thinking of starting a one with green tree frogs, and I had several questions. The tank that I'm eyeing is a 15 gallon column (about 13x13x24). The setup I'm imagining involves a large piece of manzanita driftwood like this one Natural Red Manzanita Branches, 24" tall- Blooms and Branches. The bottom 8 inches or so of the tank will have the stem of the driftwood submerged and will have red cherry shrimp and aquatic plants. The top branches are frog territory, and will have some plants as well.


My questions:
How many frogs could I keep in this setup? I am hoping for 2. If this is too small, I can look into getting a bigger tank but I don't have much room.
Will the frogs drown if there is an 8 inch deep section of water at the bottom?
How would I go about making a sort of land section, like the ground around the tree? This way the frogs would have more places to go instead of just clinging to branches 24/7.
Are these frogs noisy at night?
Is there anything else I should know?


Thanks!

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## bobthebadger53

I could also get the Exo Terra Reptile Terrarium (with two doors in the front). That is 18x18x24 so it would give me considerably more space.

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## Heather

An 18x18x24" is definitely a better size for tree frogs because they love to climb and sit in the tree tops  :Smile: . A general rule of thumb is 10 gallons of space per frog, but with tree frogs it is best to start with around 20+/- gallons for 1 or 2. Frogs, especially in species that grow larger. 

I do not know much about cherry shrimp. The frogs can stress easily with other species in the tank though. 

The water depth would be fine with lots of plants and things to perch on. Feeding might pose a problem if their crickets drown or their supplements are washed off in the water. 

You can create land with eggcrate covered in plastic screening.

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## bobthebadger53

Thanks for the feedback! I will definitely go for the Exo Terra tank if I can get my hands on it. Could I have a section with some walls around it to keep crickets in as like a designated feeding area? Or would the crickets just hop out? 
I want to make land sections, but I also really want the entire bottom to be water. That said, I don't want to put land sections in places that will block aquatic plants from getting light.
Any suggestions on that?

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## Amy

You can bowl feed crickets, use a clean glass bowl that is at least 1.5 inches deep.  You will still have some escapees wandering around now and then, but not tons.  You do lose a lot of vertical space when cutting off 8 inches though.   You need to make sure that the water is very easy for a green tree frog to get out of.  While they can swim, if they cannot get out easily, they could definitely drown.  If you do not want a lot of land, have you considered going with a different species of frog, like firebellies, which will be more tolerant of a large water area?  While green tree frogs go to the water during breeding season, and can be found in swampy areas, they do not typically live inches from water their entire lives with little access to land.

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## bobthebadger53

Is there a different type of animal I could keep instead of the green tree frogs that would do better in my setup? I really like the idea of tree frogs but if they won't work with my setup, I would love to hear other possibilities. I definitely want to include the cherry shrimp in the tank and I would like to include the driftwood "tree".
With that said, what would my options be?

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## bill

Scrap the idea of having terrestrial animals and just build an open top paludarium for rcs. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## Crunchy Frog

I don't think that the Exo-Terra will hold a full 8 inches of water.  That being said, I think a Green tree frog is probably a good choice for a paludarium inhabitant, based on my own experience.

I had a pet Green tree frog in ancient times (about 30 years ago) that I kept in a 20 gallon tank.  The setup was essentially all water, probably about 6 inches deep.  For "land" I had a good sized Dieffenbachia with the pot placed in a ceramic holder in the water, a small slate platform, and a couple of good sized climbing branches.  The frog shared the tank with a couple of newts and (temporarily) a couple of bullfrog tadpoles/baby bullfrogs.

Now, I really didn't know what I was doing as far as frog keeping at the time, but the frog lived in that setup for several years, and seemed happy.

I think that a Green tree frog would be unlikely to drown in such a setup, as long as there's plenty of climbing areas, as they naturally tend to live in swamps or marshes.  Tree frogs that rarely have contact with water are far more likely to drown in such a setup.

I don't think there would be any problem with keeping shrimp with the frogs.  Mine never seemed bothered by either the newts or the bullfrogs.

I don't recall there being any problems with the crickets.  I'm thinking maybe the newts got the ones that fell into the water.  I don't know if the shrimps would do the same in your setup?

ETA:  Just took a look at the driftwood your thinking about.  I would probably go with something thicker and more robust, more along the lines of the ghostwood pieces at the same site.  http://www.bloomsandbranches.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1845 ( no grape wood, as that doesn't tolerate humid conditions).

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## bill

Sorry, I missed a post or two. An 18x18x24 is a nice size for building a frog paludarium. I have built a few in that size tank. Even kept PFR shrimp in one. If you are planning to have the entire bottom as a water section, you will find out that a) feeding crickets will be a challenge and b) without a land section, it's not a paludarium, but more like a riparium. 

Now, I am going to make an assumption, which normally ends up biting me in the butt, but I have a sneaky suspicion that you are a planted aquarium person. I have kept planted aquariums for about a decade now, and the one piece of advice I can offer is this: you need to step away from the planted aquarium world a few steps. This is just another discipline to learn and develop. But you need to look at it from a whole different view.  Forget about the aquatic plants, and think what is best for the frog? Sorry to say, but the frog's needs must come before your artistic eye's needs. It difficult to do at first, but in the long run, makes for a better tank.  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bobthebadger53

It seems from the advice I'm getting that I may not be able to provide for tree frogs with what I have in mind. Yesterday I started researching other and I think I might try fire belly newts instead, in a 10 gallon tank.

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## bill

Newts are definitely cool and an excellent choice for the style tank you want to set up. Please keep us updated. We'd love to see how it comes out!  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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