# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  URGENT- Sick Golden Bell Frog- HELP NEEDED

## Gabby

Hey everyone,

I've posted a lot in this forum today... possibly due to the arrival of six new, juvenile (maybe 4 month old) Green and Golden Bell frogs.

Anyway, there's one particular frog in the bunch who is very lethargic, has an pinky-red belly (but I might be overreacting and thinking it's Red Leg), and has several times seemed to have seizures almost. He also seems rather bloated.

It's quite distressing to watch; his back legs twitch uncontrollably, his mouth opens and closes in a weird way, his toes curl up and once he ended up on his back in the water pool/ dish... I thought for a few minutes that he was dead, apart from that awful twitching in his limbs. Then five minutes later, he seems to be recovering, albeit still lethargic and weak.

I think the previous owner was feeding undusted mealworms as a staple, which did make me cringe. He was in an Exo-Terra mini/tall terrarium with five other juvenile frogs about 1-3cm long.

As soon as I noticed he seemed poorly I disinfected a plastic fish tank, laid down moist paper towelling (de-chlorinated water), a water dish (also de-chlorinated), and a disinfected artificial plant for cover. I've put him in a dark place, and am about to go cover the sides of the tank. Thanks to other FF users who provided me with the info on setting up a quarantine tank  :Smile: 

I'm sixteen, so whatever is wrong with Mr Blobby I don't have the resources at hand right now to help him, but is there anything I can do in the meantime? 
Also, does anyone know what he might be afflicted with? MBD and Red Leg spring to mind, but I'm really paranoid lol.

Any help would be much appreciated

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## Carlos

Mmm do keep everything having to do with these 6 frogs away from Froakie and that includes all equipment and your hands (wash well before and after handling anything).

Not sure what frog has; but isolating in hospital is good call.  Would try the following treatment for all 6 frogs (do not mix the sick one with the other 5 and do not share anything unless disinfected).  Try and get the local version of unflavored Pedialyte (baby electrolyte solution) and prepare a 10% Pedialyte and 90% 27C dechlorinated water for 20 minutes to their chin and see if it helps frog (let us know results).  Also get a box of Fluker's Repta-Boost which we will use as part of dusting routine and as a back-up if frog stops eating.

If frog eats (hopefully other 5 do); time to feed all the food frogs will eat.  Dust every other feeding with CA/D3 and alternate with dusted Repta-Boost on the other day.  Do that to all six for a week and then we can re-evaluate progress. 

Red Leg is an acute bacterial disease caused by stress or improper care.  It's not easy to diagnose in time to treat; but if they where miss cared for, it's a possibility.  Cover 3 sides of all enclosures and avoid disturbing frogs as much as possible other than to treat them.  Have read here of a member successfully treating it's frog with daily saline baths (dechlorinated water with aquarium type salt solution at 1 teaspoon per gallon for 15 min.).  More info on Red Leg here and please post pics of frog legs if possible: www.froggie.info - Redleg and How to Care for a Sick Frog with Red Leg Disease: 8 Steps. 

Hope this get's you started, be patient, frogs take lot of time to recover.  Good luck  :Smile:  !

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John

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## Lynn

Hi,

Carlos is a supportive and informative member here on FF , hopefully noted by all !  :Smile: 
The pedi soak may do wonders !

Seems you are off to a good start. 
Hopefully as things quiet down for them and they are given time to adjust..... the one you're
worried about will come alone nicely.

Repto Boost can be a great product.
As mentioned, re-evaluation is important, as you don't want to over do it.
Use it very carefully for the frog that is "?sick"
It is key to understand that it is a "diet" supplement.
Remember this does not _cure_ a sick frog. It is used when they are not eating ...for supplementation.

It is a "critical care diet"  and supportive care diet" used when a frog malnourished ( really skinny ) and dehydrated, recently acquired, to provide an "energy boost"

It is great when one is sure the amphibian was not fed properly.  

Believe it or not , frogs that are severely malnourished ( according to the instructions) should only be given 1/2 the dose. 

Severely malnourished frogs ( ones that have obvious muscle wasting seen in their limbs and bony spines) may be ill and should really be evaluated by a herp vet.

It would be really helpful if you could post a photo of the frog; as long as you don't stress it more by doing so.

Here is a photo of the package insert from the repta-boost: ( if you should need to call 1-800-735-8537)

click on the photo to enlarge
Read info in Table 1:

Keep us posted
Lynn

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John

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## Lija

so sorry to hear, i see guys have covered already the hospital set up and soaks. i just ask this - do you know where these frogs came from? WC from one place or from different? what you described sounds like toxic out along with red leg (septicemia) very common for frogs living in very crowded cages. i hope he'll pull through.
 if i were you i'd separate all frogs in hospital set ups to quarantine each separately. you can make these from a regular plastic containers, very cheap and easy to do.

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## Gabby

Thanks everyone for your amazing replies  :Smile:  

Just woken up, and Mr Blobby is sitting in the same position on the same leaf of the artificial plant as he was last night... Compare this to the other 5 frogs who were rustling around all night long!

The Pedialyte bath is the easiest thing I can do for Mr Blobby in the meantime, so I'll go out and buy some ASAP. I'll continue to keep the quarantine tank clean and stress-free.

I have a picture of Mr Blobby's underside, it's not the greatest picture but it will do. Last night when he was twitching his belly seemed even redder.


Another thing I forgot to mention is that when he was twitching, his bloated tummy seemed to move to one side..

As for the Repta-Boost, I'll see what I can do about getting some... I doubt the pet shop will have some, but I'll try my best to get hold of some. 

Here's a picture of the frog through the wall of the tank..

Went to take the photo, and he's moved off the leaf into the centre of the plant... Not much, but we have movement!  :Smile:  he also seems to be less bloated, but it's hard to tell because of the way he's sitting.

All the other frogs seemed to be eating ok, haven't given Mr Blobby a chance yet..

Thank you so much for all your help, you are all wonderful people

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## Gabby

Oh, and about the origin of the frogs... Not entirely sure, but they were at a kindergarten before the previous owner, then they came to me. My guess is they were bought as tadpoles and raised as an educational exercise for the little ones, but don't quote me! Just seems like an appropriate thing to do at a kindergarten  :Smile:  they seem to be doing better size and weight wise than my frog that I raised from tadpole-hood... Could a diet of mealie worms make them big and comparatively fatter?

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## EmJay

It sounds like you bought the ones in the auction I referred to in an earlier post.   :Frown:   They haven't been supplemented at all, have been living on flies, fruit flies, and mealworms, but I don't know in what proportion each type has been available. (As far as I know they just cut a hole in the lid of each feed tub and left the tub in the enclosure, rather than feeding a specific number of critters per feed?) I've heard some litoriae will get lazy and gorge on mealworms rather than chase flies, so that might be part of it.  I also didn't see any UV bulbs or heaters on the auction photos, so all of them are probably quite calcium-deficient.

A diet of mealworms will leave them chubby, but malnourished.  Also watch for impaction, since the chiton on the mealworm exo-skeleton can apparently build up in their digestive tract and cause constipation, and if it's not fixed, severe intestinal blockage or even death.  Maybe a honey bath will help the sick one?

I've looked for Repta-boost and so on in NZ, and not found it yet.   :Frown:   Pipe up if you do find a source!

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## EmJay

Oh, also - there were 7 listed in the auction.  Did they miscount, or did one die already?  If one died, that's more cause for concern and vigilance with the other 6.   :Frog Surprise: 

There were brown frogs listed in the auction - do you have any idea if they're winter-coloured green & golds (l. aurea), or have you managed to get a couple of brown tree frogs/whistlers (l. ewingii) as well?

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## Lija

Em i was wondering if these are u were asking about earlier, I'm happy BlueKiwiOca came here :Smile:  hope they all are gonna make it.

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## Gabby

The next day, when I disinfected the terrarium, I moved them all into a different box to hold them, and thats when I noticed there were only six... Didn't find any frog bodies in the terrarium, but I was going to text the seller about the numbers... It did occur to me that one might have been eaten, but they struggle to eat large mealworms so it seemed unlikely to be honest..

As for the brown frogs, 5/6 are brown! Only one or of the frogs has the distinctive "green and gold" colouring... one other one is gold and green, but most are just a pretty brown-gold colour.. Don't think they're brown tree frogs, I just googled them and they don't look very similar  :Smile: 

Turns out NZ doesn't have unflavoured Pedialyte.. only bubblegum >.< anyone got a plan B?

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## EmJay

Also, you may have found this info by now, but the main public exotic vet in Auckland is the Exotic Vet Centre in Lynfield:

*122 White Swan Rd, Lynfield
Ph. (09) 626 4335
*
I don't imagine it will be cheap though...   :Frown:

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## EmJay

> As for the brown frogs, 5/6 are brown! Only one or of the frogs has the distinctive "green and gold" colouring... one other one is gold and green, but most are just a pretty brown-gold colour.. Don't think they're brown tree frogs, I just googled them and they don't look very similar


Mine is currently golden-bronze on the "outside" and showing traces of the green on her warm "inside" bits; folds of legs, "armpits", etc.  Possibly just winter colouring then, although apparently they can also darken with stress or malnutrition.  If it's goldy-bronze and not muddy-brown I wouldn't panic too much (she says, from experience  :Stick Out Tongue:  ).

(Edit: Also, I think l. ewingii aren't so common up north.)




> Turns out NZ doesn't have unflavoured Pedialyte.. only bubblegum >.< anyone got a plan B?


Try and get verification from someone more experienced than I, but a honey bath?  They absorb the sugars through their skin...

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## Lija

try to look for any brand of unflavored electrolyte solution, it might be in powder form and/or called differently, something should be there, it is used for babies and babies are sensitive to coloring/flavors.

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## EmJay

> try to look for any brand of unflavored electrolyte solution, it might be in powder form and/or called differently, something should be there, it is used for babies and babies are sensitive to coloring/flavors.


Lija, New Zealand has no where *near* the variety in shops (or online) as North America does...   :Dispirited:  Often you get one or two brands, one or two flavours/types, and that's *it*.  And since we (apparently?) don't have the same degree of allergy-prevalence here as many other countries, flavour/colour/allergen-free stuff can be hard to find and sometimes expensive.  (As someone with chemical sensitivities that would make a frog proud,  :Stick Out Tongue:  I've learned this the hard way!)

I haven't seen unflavoured electrolyte powder recently here at all.  BlueKiwiOca, you might have better luck with Enerlyte than Gastrolyte or Pedialyte; that's the only one I've seen in a plain powder, although it's often hard to get.  (At least you're in Akl, and not like, Gore or Levin or Katikati or somewhere with even fewer shops!  :Hopelessness:  )

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## Lija

i imagine that  :Smile:  i meant in pharmacies,  your mentioned enerlyte and gastrolyte will most likely do, doesn't matter brand, as long as it is water+ bunch of electrolytes. it is used for babies when they have diarrhea to restore electrolyte balance.

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## Gabby

Ugh, this is getting confusing.. Still haven't been able to do anything for Mr Blobby in the meantime, but he's hanging in there and seems to be surviving ok..

So basically any colour-free electrolyte solution? In the meantime, what would a honey bath do? I haven't fed him in a couple of days, I've been scared of stressing him out and numerous other things.

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## Gabby

Update: I'm now on my own at home, my parents have gone away, and I haven't gotten around to getting my drivers license yet. Getting what Mr Blobby needs just got 400% harder :'( 

It might just be me being optimistic, but he's moving around a bit more, still lethargic, but his colour's improved from a muddy brown to goldy-bronze. I've literally done nothing except keep him in the covered quarantine tank to minimise stress. Still bloated though...

I've gone ahead and put him in a lukewarm honey bath up to his chin... I mixed 1 tbsp honey with 4 cups frog-safe water. He's sitting very happily in there, not trying to escape. Luckily he was sitting on a convenient leaf so I didn't even have to pick him up to put him in  :Smile:  let's see what this bath does!

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## EmJay

> So basically any colour-free electrolyte solution?


Yes, but good luck on that - I've been looking myself (online and in Henderson), and can't find unflavoured electrolyte solution so  far.  Four different flavours, but no plain!   :Hopelessness: 




> I haven't fed him in a couple of days, I've been scared of stressing him out and numerous other things.


They often don't eat for a couple of days after a move, and they can go a week without eating, usually, without harm.  You could just offer food, and watch to see if he takes it.

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## EmJay

> i imagine that  i meant in pharmacies,  your mentioned enerlyte and gastrolyte will most likely do, doesn't matter brand, as long as it is water+ bunch of electrolytes. it is used for babies when they have diarrhea to restore electrolyte balance.


I've checked the local pharmacies, plus online pharmacies and supermarkets - apparently the done thing here is to go ahead and fill your babies up with bubblegum and orange flavourings.  o.O

I never really thought about it one the rare occasions I've bought orange-flavoured Gastrolyte or whatever in the past...  I imagine it would be really difficult for people with food colouring intolerances to try and find electrolyte powders or liquids here.

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## Carlos

> Ugh, this is getting confusing.. Still haven't been able to do anything for Mr Blobby in the meantime, but he's hanging in there and seems to be surviving ok...


If you have not located the plain baby electrolyte solution, just offer some food and see if frog will eat  :Smile:  .

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## Heather

I too am thinking malnutrition is the culprit here. Use the calcium with vitaminD3 supplement lightly dusted on the food, or you can use the Flukers liquid calcium supplement in a soak. Read the instructions. It's only a couple drops or so in the soak.

It sounds as though your frog has tetany. Tetany is a group of symptoms caused by low blood calcium levels. Calcium is not absorbed properly without vitamin D3 when taken in orally, so be sure the supplement is calcium with vitamin D3, phosphorus-free. 

Tetany symptoms: numbness, tingling, twitching, tremors, lack of motor or mobility control, uncoordinated movements, seizures, paralysis, inactivity of the intestines such as when peristalsis or the contracting motion of the gut stops causing constipation and bloating, inability to control musculature of the jaw and tongue, cardiac dysrhythmias etc. 

Calcium helps us control our musculature and therefore our bones that are attached to those muscles. It also affects organ/smooth muscle and heart/cardiac muscle. It also gives our "bone cells" structural strength. Without calcium these action potentials within the muscles have varying degrees of inability to use these muscles or their usual functions anywhere from odd motions, to uncoordinated motions, to paralysis of the muscle, bone, or organ involved. Long story short, they need calcium to survive and without it which ever function involved will eventually cease to function. 

Other micronutrients such as sodium, potassium, magnesium play a roles in the functions of skeletal, cardiac and smooth (organ) muscle. 

Frogs in the wild eat insects that eat calcium-rich plants and frogs may soak in mineral rich ponds or puddles plus have UVB light from the sun to help their bodies produce their own vitamin D3. In captivity we have to provide the supplements for them.

Being they were not provided with a supplemented diet, I have a strong suspicion that this is the reasons for the twitching, which needs to be corrected soon or the functions will be irretrievable   and/or will die. If you start supplementing now and he eats, this process can be stopped and proper functions will resume  :Smile: . 

The electrolyte solution will help to provide sugar/dextrose for energy, and sodium and potassium which will help with some of the electrolyte/nutrient deficiencies. 

If he will not eat for you, try the liquid calcium drops in a soak. 


Do not use more than the recommended dose, because too high of a dose too fast can cause toxicity. 

I'll break it down for you in case you decide to use it. There's no need to remember this calculation, but here it is in case you'd like to refer to it later. The dose is only 1/2 teaspoon (2.5ml) (* corrected*) in 8 oz (240ml) of dechlorinated water. Divide the 2.5ml by 2.5 and you get 1ml of medicine per 96ml. There are approx. 10 small drops in 1ml or you could say each drop equals about 0.1ml. So for a large frog it would be approx 10 drops (1ml) per 98ml in a soak. There are are 30ml in one ounce for estimation of US measurements. 

For a small frog of 1" or less I'd use only 1/4 to 1/5 that dose, or approx. 2 to 2.5 drops (0.2 to 0.25ml) of the calcium per 98ml of soak water. Or in English  :Smile: , about 2 to 2 1/2 small drops in approx. 3 ounces of soak water. One of the small children sized medicine measuring cups is usually a 30ml cup and makes it easy to measure your water. 

Soak for about 15 to 20 minutes daily until symptoms resolve or until he begins eating the calcium-powdered food. Then stop the calcium soaks. The calcium soaks are a temporary treatment and the calcium with vita D3 is better regulated by the frog's body in terms of absorption and is the best choice when healthy.

Use the powdered-calcium on his food daily until symptoms resolve and then switch to using the supplement every other day. 

Use a multivitamin supplement lightly dusted one day a week, but not in the same day as the calcium, for proper absorption of the micronutrients.

Hope this helps  :Smile: . 

If this gets too wordy, just ignore the extensive data and take in the basics  :Smile: . I love to educate  :Smile: .

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## Gabby

> If you have not located the plain baby electrolyte solution, just offer some food and see if frog will eat  .


Tried offering Mr Blobby some dusted wingless fruit flies after a nice relaxing honey bath... but to no avail. He's still very bloated, with a rounded tummy, and when I held him up to the light (on a plastic spoon lol) I could see a dark shape to one side of his belly... probably his stomach, but I've not seen it so prominently on any of the other frogs I have. Because he was in a terrarium with bark substrate (before I removed it) and being fed on mealie worms, is it possible he's impacted? How can I get him to pass the impaction if he has one?

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## Gabby

Ah Heather, didn't see your post there for some reason!

Finally an answer! Thank you so much for all the information, you are a star  :Big Applause: 

As I said before (I think) I tried to get Mr Blobby to nom on some calcium+D3 dusted fruit flies, but to no avail  :Frown:  
Knowing New Zealand, this amazing liquid calcium will prove _very_ difficult to get, if not impossible.. we have inadequate exotic pet supplies here  :Frown:  if I bought some online, chances are it would arrive in a couple of weeks, which will no doubt be too late for my poor froggy.

I do however have calcium powder. Would mixing a small amount of powder with water, and then soaking Mr Blobby in that serve the same purpose? *waits for someone to point out the painfully obvious flaw in this plan*

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## Heather

The calcium in the liquid is calcium chloride and calcium citrate vs calcium carbonate in the powdered supplement. 

I do not know if calcium carbonate mixed with water will work for absorption.

This is what I do know:
CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) in pure water is insoluble, meaning it does not truly dissolve. It will be in the form of a precipitate. Basically it will either float on the water or will sink to the bottom. 

When added to HCl (Hydrochloric acid as in our stomachs) and H20 (water) the equation changes and therefore can be absorbed as calcium chloride. Calcium chloride's ph is around 8, making it an alkaline. This is why Tums works in the stomach...calcium chloride is absorbable. Because calcium chloride is a base, it helps to neutralize the stomach's HCl to become less acidic. Basically, acid plus base (alkaline compound) equals neutral, if ions are present for bonding.
http://lrs.ed.uiuc.edu/students/erli...ground/ph.html

Problem is, if we mix the calcium carbonate to try and create a soluble solution, salt is usually needed and/or acid containing the chloride ion. Such as sodium chloride or calcium chloride. This is a dilemma because calcium chloride's alkalinity in its own solution (without HCl acid) can cause alkaline burns. See, because it is not neutralized by the acid as would be in our stomachs. 

Calcium citrate (citric acid) is added to calcium chloride in the Flukers liquid calcium supplement to neutralize the base/alkalinity of calcium chloride, again creating a neutral ph, making is safe for absorption. A neutral pH of 7 will not cause burns.

So...calcium carbonate with water remains insoluble or unable to dissolve. Adding salt makes it soluble, but creates calcium chloride which is alkalinic and causes burns. 

We must also take caution in mixing such compounds because tap water carries trace elements and ions, which could again alter the mixture, and, we carry salt within our skin as sweat. If you were to try it, I would only use distilled water and only wear gloves, but I believe the chemistry of the calcium would fail for absorption. Another question is, what chemicals are within the frogs' skin? Quite the dilemma.

I think your best bet is to try and get the little fella eating with the powdered supplement, unless you can get the Flukers liquid supplement for a soak. 

---------------------------------------------------

As for the belly...he sounds impacted. The honey soaks are the safe home remedy. He likely won't be hungry until the situation is resolved. 

This is tough, because he is likely malnourished and has nutritional and electrolyte deficiencies, yet if is impacted, will not eat. 

The treatment in an otherwise healthy frog with good nutritional status is to do the soaks with honey and to avoid feeding until the impaction clears. This is so we do not add to the impaction. The honey is a natural emollient which when absorbed helps to pass the obstruction. We provide soaks for hydration and to help draw in water to soften the impaction if it is stool. We give pedialyte soaks to provide dextrose (sugar) and electrolytes as needed, as noted in my previous post. 

So, we need to clear his obstruction, if that is the cause. 

:/

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## Gabby

> As for the belly...he sounds impacted. The honey soaks are the safe home remedy. He likely won't be hungry until the situation is resolved. 
> 
> This is tough, because he is likely malnourished and has nutritional and electrolyte deficiencies, yet if is impacted, will not eat. 
> 
> The treatment in an otherwise healthy frog with good nutritional status is to do the soaks with honey and to avoid feeding until the impaction clears. This is so we do not add to the impaction. The honey is a natural emollient which when absorbed helps to pass the obstruction. We provide soaks for hydration and to help draw in water to soften the impaction if it is stool. We give pedialyte soaks to provide dextrose (sugar) and electrolytes as needed, as noted in my previous post. 
> 
> So, we need to clear his obstruction, if that is the cause. 
> 
> :/


I guess I kinda knew the calcium powder-in-water thing wouldn't work... it's why they sell liquid calcium!

I gave Mr Blobby another honey bath this morning to try clear the impaction, and after two days without it, the twitching started... I had to pull him out because he flipped onto his back  :Frown:  its so sad to watch. I'm going to try give him another one, because this impaction needs to go ASAP so we can start on other stuff.

I'm at a loss as for what to do about calcium in the meantime. He really needs it obviously, but he won't and can't eat dusted feeders, and New Zealand is useless because we don't have liquid supplements. I can try look on eBay and pay a fortune for overnight shipping I guess.. but then my parents will get angry at me for spending so much money on a pet. Ugh. What a disaster.

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## Heather

I'm so sorry  :Frown: . It's so kind of you to rescue them though. 

How small is he? Can you guess his measurement from nose to butt?

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## Heather

There is some on eBay... I'm not sure how long it would take to get there, but a good thing to have on hand anyhow.

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## Gabby

> I'm so sorry . It's so kind of you to rescue them though. 
> 
> How small is he? Can you guess his measurement from nose to butt?


Now that I can do  :Big Grin:  he's about 1" long/ 2.5cm...

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## Gabby

Ah yes, I saw that auction... Doesn't ship to New Zealand though  :Frown:

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## Heather

Could you gently force feed him a small bit of reptaboost?

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## Gabby

> Could you gently force feed him a small bit of reptaboost?


I probably could, but New Zealand doesn't have it... I feel like I'm being unintentionally difficult here, I'm sorry >.< I'll order some online, but as with anything it won't arrive for a few weeks.. sometimes it's REALLY annoying being on an island on the other side of the world!

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## EmJay

*I didn't know the liquid vitamins could be used as a soak, duh!  If I'd only known sooner...*  :Frown:  

They have Flukers liquid vitamin and Jurassi-Cal liquid calcium at Hollywood Fish Farm (Cnr of Tawa Drive and Rosedale Road in Albany) and at least the Flukers at Bird Barn (Corner of Lincoln & Pomaria Rds in Henderson).  About $25-$29, depending on where you go and which you choose.

[Edit: Forgot PetStop in Mt Eden, who usually have Flukers liquid vitamins, and may or may not have liquid calcium.  If you are really stuck for transport, there's always TradeMe, but you'll probably end up buying from either HollywoodFF's or PetStop's TMe accounts anyway, and their TMe prices are a dollar or so dearer than their shop prices, plus postage - but, at least it will be posted to you, rather than you trying to get to them.  Postage might work out a similar price to paying for trains/buses anyway...
(If I drove, I'd love to help you out, but I'm stuck out west with only public transport, so I  can't even get myself to HFF, and I really need a UVB lamp, too...  Why are cars so expensive?!?)  :Dejection:  ]

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## Heather

> I probably could, but New Zealand doesn't have it... I feel like I'm being unintentionally difficult here, I'm sorry &gt;.&lt; I'll order some online, but as with anything it won't arrive for a few weeks.. sometimes it's REALLY annoying being on an island on the other side of the world!


Oh no, don't feel that way. Just trying to help is all.

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## Heather

> *I didn't know the liquid vitamins could be used as a soak, duh!  If I'd only known sooner...*  
> 
> They have Flukers liquid vitamin and Jurassi-Cal liquid calcium at Hollywood Fish Farm (Cnr of Tawa Drive and Rosedale Road in Albany) and at least the Flukers at Bird Barn (Corner of Lincoln &amp; Pomaria Rds in Henderson).  About $25-$29, depending on where you go and which you choose.
> 
> [Edit: Forgot PetStop in Mt Eden, who usually have Flukers liquid vitamins, and may or may not have liquid calcium.  If you are really stuck for transport, there's always TradeMe, but you'll probably end up buying from either HollywoodFF's or PetStop's TMe accounts anyway, and their TMe prices are a dollar or so dearer than their shop prices, plus postage - but, at least it will be posted to you, rather than you trying to get to them.  Postage might work out a similar price to paying for trains/buses anyway...
> (If I drove, I'd love to help you out, but I'm stuck out west with only public transport, so I  can't even get myself to HFF, and I really need a UVB lamp, too...  Why are cars so expensive?!?)  ]


Yes, the Flukers liquid calcium is safe for soaks.

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## Gabby

WOOHOO!
I woke up this morning, checked Mr Blobby, and the first thing I see is an almighty poop on the leaf he was sitting on yesterday  :Big Grin:  I don't think I've ever been so happy to see a poop in my life! Either Mr Blobby got to work, or those honey baths did, either way, is it safe to say that impaction is gone?

I'm going to try to give him some food today, try get some calcium into him  :Smile:  hopefully I don't have to go all the way out to Albany to get liquid calcium! Thanks for the names of the shops though Emjay, that's super helpful, and I'll grab some soon  :Smile: 

Thank you both for all your help, I think we still have a way to go yet but this poop is a massive improvement  :Big Grin:

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## Heather

Yay!!!!  :Smile:  Great job!

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## Gabby

Didn't manage to get any food into him today, and we had a little bit of toe twitching, but I'll try again tomorrow... maybe he was just tired haha.. Anyway, I have another problem frog  :Frown:  he's been sitting on the floor of the terrarium the whole time I've had him, and was a dull colour... I started a new thread, I don't suppose you could take a look?
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/24463-red-leg.html

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## Heather

Lets start from the beginning...

Can you please copy and paste your answers to these questions? 

“Trouble in the Frog Enclosure” The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.

1. Size of enclosure?

2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences?

3. Humidity? 

4. Temperature? 

5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish? 

6. Materials used for substrate? 

7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. - How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv? 

8. Main food source? 

9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often?) 

10. Lighting? 

11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure? 

12. When is the last time he/she ate? 

13. Have you found poop lately? 

14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) 

15. How old is the frog? 

16. How long have you owned him/her? 

17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred? 

18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats? 

19. How often the frog is handled? 

20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area? 

21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

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## Gabby

Mr Blobby (the one with impaction/ tetany) deteriorated today, so my grandma kindly drove me 30 mins out to Bird Barn in Henderson, where we bought an avian liquid calcium- Avi-Cal. The reptile specialist there said that people with lizards used it and that if I adjusted the dose for a frog, it would do. So I used Heather's instructions for the Fluker's calcium, put him in the bath, and he's currently sitting in there happily enough. He won't eat, but I'll continue to update you all.

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## Heather

Was he pretty lethargic earlier? Twitching?

Is it possible for you to read the ingredients in the supplement for me?

Crossing fingers for you!

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## Heather

I found it, I think. Is it this one?

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## Gabby

> Was he pretty lethargic earlier? Twitching?
> 
> Is it possible for you to read the ingredients in the supplement for me?
> 
> Crossing fingers for you!


Yes, he was lethargic, twitching a lot, flipped onto his back several times  :Frown: 

It's this one..


**hooray for tiny pictures haha**

Active ingredients are: Calcium Boroglucanate 200g/L; Cholecalciferol (Vit D3) 12,500IU/L; Magnesium Sulfate 5g/L

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## Heather

Did the twitching lessen or stop at all?

Try and keep his house temp around 75'F or 23.88'C, keep everything nice and quiet and give the tank a nice mist. Put in a few bugs and let him rest. The flipping is a sign of stress. They don't understand that we're helping them. Lets let him relax tonight.

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## Gabby

Thank you for your help  :Smile:  the twitching stopped after the bath, and he wasn't twitching while in there. I'll pop a few flies in there, and I need to change the paper towel so I'll give it a good mist when I do that  :Smile:  my bedroom is probably around that temperature at night, so I'll try maintain that.. I'm keeping the tanks covered with muslin to try lessen stress.

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## Heather

Thank goodness  :Smile: . Great job! Let's hope for the best. I'll check back tomorrow. It's time to catch some sleep. Night!

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## Heather

Your care package is in route...should be there in 7 to 10 days from tomorrow, minus Sundays.

Hopefully they will start eating before then. Either way, you'll have your frog home remedy care kit. It does not have any prescription meds or anything only a vet can give, as I am not permitted to prescribe meds, but it has a bunch of items you may need  :Smile: .

Keep offering what you can for food. Please continue to update us so we can guide you  :Smile: .

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## Gabby

Thank you so much Heather  :Smile:  two calcium soaks later, Mr Blobby seems to be perking up, and the twitches and tremors seem to be reducing (touch wood!)

 He's still not eating though, would it be a good idea to give a liquid vitamin soak for nutrients? It's coming up to a week without food (maybe more). If so, what would the dosage be? Thank you so much for all your help, I will keep you updated  :Smile:

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## Heather

I've never done a vitamin soak. I'm not sure if its safe for their outer skin. You could try to force feed some fruit flies. Mix them with a teeny tiny bit of dechlorinated water and a tiny bit of vitamin and gently spoon them in. If you do, wash your hands thoroughly, rinse super well, and rinse your hands again with dechlorinated water. Use a plain, unprinted paper towel moistened with dechlorinated water and wrap it around him like a bunting, but not too tight. Then try very gently to open his mouth and spoon the mixture in carefully a little at a time. Be careful not to choke him with too much fluid at a time. A small syringe works even better.


This us not a very clear photo, but it shows how.

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## Gabby

> I've never done a vitamin soak. I'm not sure if its safe for their outer skin. You could try to force feed some fruit flies. Mix them with a teeny tiny bit of dechlorinated water and a tiny bit of vitamin and gently spoon them in. If you do, wash your hands thoroughly, rinse super well, and rinse your hands again with dechlorinated water. Use a plain, unprinted paper towel moistened with dechlorinated water and wrap it around him like a bunting, but not too tight. Then try very gently to open his mouth and spoon the mixture in carefully a little at a time. Be careful not to choke him with too much fluid at a time. A small syringe works even better.
> 
> 
> This us not a very clear photo, but it shows how.


Ah, I see.. I'll try once more feeding him live flies, but if he doesn't eat I'll give that a go... That frog sure looks cute all wrapped up like that, haha  :Smile:  thanks for the tip about wrapping him, I was trying to figure out how I would force feed a tiny, slippery frog!

*Edit: I think it's possible his original impaction wasn't completely cleared, therefore he wasn't eating... but when I put him in the feeding tank to try get him to eat, he started defecating  :Smile:  thats the second poop in a few days... hopefully he'll eat after this!

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## Heather

Any luck? I'm thinking they may be more attracted to the baby crickets.

Glad to hear he's pooping. Sigh of relief! Lets hope he gets hungry now.

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## Gabby

I put some fruit flies in his tank overnight to try tempt him into eating... But I don't know if he actually did unfortunately.

I'm continuing with the calcium soaks, and keeping a close eye on him. I'll give the BioSuppliers a ring about the crickets, apparently they courier them to you fairly quickly  :Smile:  

He seems quite shy, actively hiding away from things, but then again he's much perkier than he was a few days ago.

I'm trying to get the humidity in their tanks up by misting with warm water, and putting warm water in their water dishes... It seems to work, at least for a while  :Smile:  

I'm fully aware that I'm mixing threads here, and I know I shouldn't, but the other sick frog did another poop today while in a warm calcium bath ( I though I'd give him one as well seeing as he was on the same diet and not eating). That makes two for him as well haha..

Overall I think both of them are improving, but we have a long way to go yet :/

On a positive note, the other frogs are all eating supplemented fruit flies happily and are looking good  :Smile: 



Thank you so much for all your help Heather, and everyone else as well  :Smile:

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## Lynn

Gabby,
This is great to hear  :Smile: 
What a great job you're doing.
Lynn

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## Gabby

> Gabby,
> This is great to hear 
> What a great job you're doing.
> Lynn


I couldn't do it without the amazing people like you in this wonderful community  :Smile:

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## Heather

I'm so happy to hear this. Just keep up the good work and cross your fingers. Maybe they'll eat tonight.

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## Gabby

> I'm so happy to hear this. Just keep up the good work and cross your fingers. Maybe they'll eat tonight.


I'm repeatedly kicking myself for forgetting to offer them food last night, before I went to a friend's sleepover... I'm back now and doing the calcium soak routine, I'll offer them food afterwards. Mr Blobby isn't looking so blobby any more (he's passed whatever impaction he had it seems), and his colour is improved... a light brown-bronze with green spots as opposed to muddy brown... but his front toes are curling and twitching a little. I noticed this yesterday as well.

I guess there's not much I can do but continue soaks, offer food, and maybe attempt to force feed tonight.

*UPDATE 1: He's doing _another_ poop. What. How many poops can a tiny little frog do without eating for a week? Oh well. Maybe this is it finally  :Smile:  *touches wood*

*UPDATE 2: After that poop, he's hopping around in his tank, the most active I've seen him... I think he might me getting better! Gonna try feed now  :Smile:

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## Gabby

Right. So it's Tuesday today, which means I've had the frogs for 11 days now. 

Mr Blobby is still not eating fruit flies, and today I caved and offered him a solitary mealie worm. I split it in half and rubbed the juice over his lips, but he didn't seem to like that.. I won't be trying that again as I think it probably stressed him out too much. 

He's no longer bloated and seems in ok condition- but he's hiding away in a corner of the tank and his skin has gone back to a muddy brown colouration. Stress?

I guess what I would like to know is 
1) How long could a 1" juvenile tree frog go without food before needing to resort to force-feeding?
and
2) Is it possible he's really stressed out from the big move, being sick, daily calcium soaks etc?

I've covered all sides of his tank, and I'm going to try disturb him as little as possible from now. I would really hate to lose this little guy, I've become really attached to him  :Frown:

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## Heather

Gabby, I can teach you how to force feed. What types of insects do you have? Any chance you have any crickets?

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## Gabby

Thanks Heather..

No crickets, I rang the BioSuppliers and all they have are adults which are too big for my little froggies to eat. I have fruit flies and some mealie worms that the previous owner passed on to me. 
I guess with the force feeding I'm just terrified I'll accidentally hurt Mr Blobby, because he's small... I imagine it would be a simpler matter to force feed an adult Pacman or WTF... :P

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## Heather

Yes, I'm not going to lie, it's not easy and you have to be super careful. It's easier with a solid bug.

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## Heather

Do you have any earthworms?

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## Gabby

Apart from earthworms in the garden, nope... They'd carry a risk of disease I guess, but can I wash them and risk it?

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## Heather

Hmmm, it's not recommended. I buy night crawlers that are scent free and dye free from Walmart. There are no additives at all. I cut mine into little pieces. 

I made a video, but ran out of video room so it cut off. It wasn't Twigs's best video ever, but he only eats one cricket each day because he's on a diet  :Big Grin: . He's a little chubby. 

http://youtu.be/sJbEu0xNsBU

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BlueKiwiOca

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## Gabby

Very cute, thanks for going to all that effort and making a video to show me how it's done  :Smile: 

As for more solid foods, I have mealworms... Can I try force-feeding him a bit of mealworm just so I can get some form of food+calcium+vitamins into him, even if it is those awful things? Unfortunately "food ready" night crawlers are not as easy to come by over here as they are in the US... I wish exotic pet culture was bigger over here!

And when it comes to force feeding, I guess the key thing is to be gentle.. I may have to enlist the help of another pair of hands lol  :Frog Smile:

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## Heather

Hmmm, can you squeeze out the insides? I know it's gross, but we don't want to re-impact him.

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## Gabby

Yeap... I was thinking the same :S so he'll have some mealie-worm soup.. excellent!

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## Gabby

I managed to force-feed him two small syringe squirts of mealie-worm soup  :Smile:  (mealie-worm insides, decholorinated water, tiny amount of calcium powder and liquid vitamins)

He was a challenge to swaddle! Hehe, but he sure looked cute  :Smile:  he only had a little bit to eat but it's definitely better than nothing, and it's probably good that he only had a small amount to start.. I used a rounded edge of cardstock to get his little mouth open, while my mum squirted the mix into his mouth...

When I put him back into his tank he hopped away energetically  :Smile:  I'll keep his tank covered now to let him calm down.

Thank you for your video Heather, it  was definitely a lifesaver!

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## Gabby

Getting a feed... I've also decided to rename Mr Blobby, as Ned- after Eddard Stark from the book and TV series Game of Thrones... I think it reflects his personality better now that he isn't all bloated!

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## Heather

So cute!  :Smile:  Great job!

Any more signs of twitching? I would feed him every day this week and then see if he'll start eating on his own. You could use the big crickets if you do as you did with the mealies and only use the insides to make his food. Hopefully your package will arrive soon, which has some Reptaboost in it  :Smile: . Then you can mix a teeny tiny bit of reptaboost with the soup  :Smile: . 

Did he swallow easily for you? Some people use a very clean credit card edge or guitar pick to open their little mouths.

Can I just say I'm so proud of you for rescuing them and giving them so much  :Smile: . I really hope he pulls through for you. Something about saving them really makes us appreciate them, doesn't it?

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## Gabby

Thank you!

I haven't seen any more twitching today, so that's a good sign  :Smile:  I'll feed him again tonight and tomorrow night... I'm going away Friday and I have a house/dog/fish/frog sitter coming in to look after everyone, but I'm thinking I'll probably take Ned and the other sick frog with me so I can look after them properly... it's a 45min ferry trip but I'm confident we can manage it without stressing them too much..

I'll go get some big crickets then  :Smile:  those mealies were _revolting_.. eurgh! >.< and no doubt crickets are better for him. What a pampered frog he is... 
ReptaBoost? You truly are amazing. That will be VERY useful! Hopefully it arrives soon  :Smile: 

He took a little while to swallow, but I imagine it was a bit daunting having someone shove food in his mouth... but at least he didn't choke  :Smile:  I used a rounded edge of cardstock, but thanks for the guitar pick idea... that will work much better!




> Can I just say I'm so proud of you for rescuing them and giving them so much . I really hope he pulls through for you. Something about saving them really makes us appreciate them, doesn't it?


Thank you so much for your kind words  :Smile:  they really mean a lot! I hope he pulls through too... Looking after him so closely has made me realise what amazing and beautiful creatures they are! So has the rest of my family; in fact, my little 9-year-old sister is doing a speech for school on frogs and why we need to save them  :Smile:

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## Heather

I hope he's gets some strength and starts wanting to eat on his own. The red eyes I took in took a bit to come around too. 

That's awesome that your sisters doing a frog saving project. My daughter did one too. I took some frogs to school for her. We made lots of educational posters and played frog games. We even made dirt pudding with gummy worms to celebrate  :Smile: .

I'll link some sites for you/her to make the project easier  :Big Grin: .

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## Heather

************
http://************.com/students/index.html

http://************.com/teachers/index.html

AllAboutFrogs
http://allaboutfrogs.org/info/save/save.html

http://allaboutfrogs.org/info/save/whattodo.html

Amphibian Ark
http://www.amphibianark.org/

http://www.amphibianark.org/educatio...re-amphibians/

[URL]http://www.amphibianark.org/the-crisis/what-can-i-do-to-help/[/URL

Tree Walkers
http://www.treewalkers.org/about

http://www.treewalkers.org/our-projects

CGEE Threatened Frogs and Toads List
http://www.cgee.hamline.edu/frogs/sc...Threatened.pdf

Discovery Channel
http://animal.discovery.com/tv-shows...hing-frogs.htm

Animal Planet
http://animal.discovery.com/endanger...extinction.htm

National Geographical Endangered Frogs Articles
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/se...dangered+frogs

The Guardian UK
http://m.guardiannews.com/environmen...angeredspecies

Earth's Endangered Creatures
http://earthsendangered.com/search-g...&amp;sgroup=AM

Good News Network
http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/earth...red-frogs.html

These are just a few of the articles we used to gather information. You/she might find them helpful  :Smile: .

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## Heather

I've gone over the allotted number of links per post so some are not touch links. I'll fix it this evening.

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## Gabby

Sorry I replied so late, we've just gotten back from a weekend holiday... Ned and Mr Chubbs came with me  :Smile:  
Thanks for the links, I'll show them to my sister.. I'm sure she'll find them invaluable!

Ned seems to be improving, I wasn't able to force-feed him over the weekend but his colour's good and he's quite active. I'll offer him live feed tomorrow  :Big Grin: 
Mr Chubbs (the one from the other thread) remains a mystery... he passed what seemed to be a tiny, watery stool, but I threw it away stupidly. I'll continue trying to offer him food and getting him to poop.

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## Heather

Any new updates?

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## Gabby

> Any new updates?



Thanks for the continued interest Heather  :Smile:  Ned, the one who had a calcium deficiency, seems to be improving (he is a lighter colour and tried to eat a fruit fly yesterday- first time I've seen him attempt to eat). He's very skinny though. I can see his hip bones, so I need to amp up the effort to get him to eat.

But Mr Chubbs- the mystery frog- seems to be getting worse  :Frown:  he's very lethargic, muddy brown coloured and hasn't eaten anything except one small (1cc) force-fed dose of Repta-Boost a couple of days ago. He did a tiny runny poop the next day while having a soak, but that's it. I'm having trouble getting the force-feeding technique right on my own (Mum's at work) because they're so tiny... what can I do for him?

These frogs are really worrying me D: I really want them to survive, but I just don't know what to do from here  :Frown:

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## Heather

Good...perhaps Ned will pull through  :Smile: . I am hopeful. Give him a chance to eat. If he does not, go ahead and feed him every other day. He should want to eat daily.

Chubbs sounds weak. Give him a 1:10 pedialyte to spring water or dechlorinated water soak for 20 minutes. It will give him some sugar and electrolytes. Then carefully feed him the reptaboost with some fruit flies mixed in. See if non can help tonight. 

Try to minimize their stress and handling of them to only as necessary.

You are doing a great job! Sometimes we can help them pull through. Sometimes they will not help themselves. Know you are giving them all that you can and just hope they try. You are a great frog mom  :Smile: .

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## Gabby

Hi Heather,

I too am hopeful for Ned  :Smile:  offered him food today, he went for one fly but missed :/ will try again tomorrow.

As for Chubbs, I gave him the Pedialyte bath yesterday, and attempted to force-feed again. I don't know what it is, but lately I just haven't been able to get them wrapped up snugly enough without crushing them, they always hop around and wriggle their toes out the top which leads to an escape... therefore I haven't been able to force feed. I try many times in a row before giving up due to stress- both Chubb's and my own! Any tips for wrapping up tiny little frogs? haha..

You'll see that I sent you a PM. I come across as harsh. And I really hate that, as animals are a huge part and love of my life, and I am so attached to the adorable little guy.. Taking him to the vet for help is not an option as there is not an exotic vet within range (will take maybe an hour to drive to, an hour back), and we don't have the money to spend on New Zealand's exorbitant consultation vet fees.

Ugh. I guess that's about it for now. I'll continue trying with force feeding, and as usual, thanks for being a superstar with all your help and advice

BTW, you are still the queen of frog mums  :Frog Smile:

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## Heather

Hi Gabby,

I sent you a pm. You can continue soaks for Ned with the pedialyte and the calcium every 2-3 days for now. I'd rotate pedialyte with calcium every other day if he does not eat, or use the reptaboost. I prefer the reptaboost. 

Another trick is to feed him when he is shedding, if you can. They will open their mouths big to stretch and pull their old skin off. You can sometimes sneak food into their mouths when they do. You would have to gently squish the fruit fly so you can just drop it in.  Lynn came up with this great trick  :Smile: . You have to be quick though. Sometimes I can do it, and sometimes forget it, lol! 

As for Chubbs, you could try the pedialyte and calcium soaks, alternating every few days. If this does not work you'd have to feed. I sent the alternate treatment to your pm in case the time is nearing. 

Let me know how things go tonight. I'll pray they eat for you!

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## Gabby

Just thought I'd post a quick update...

NED: I moved Ned back into the main terrarium a few days ago so he could be in a better environment and to reduce stress- it seems to be working; his colouring has improved and he's climbing the fake plants happily. He's still not eating- although he's made half-hearted attempts to, so I'm giving him a Pedialyte soak and attempting to force feed a small amount of Repta-Boost. I'll continue offering him wingless fruit flies.

MR CHUBBS: Mr Chubbs is not improving, and I'm not seeing any change in his condition. He is very weak and lethargic, his skin/ colouring is a muddy brown colour, and he spends the whole day in one spot or hiding away. I am giving him a daily 1:10 Pedialyte soak, and attempting to force-feed Repta-Boost. I will be trying a Repta-Boost soak tonight. I am trying my best for him, but sadly it's not looking very good  :Frown:  I have added a small amount of clean sphagnum moss to a corner of his hospital tank in order to provide some cover and comfort. It may not be the wisest thing to do but I feel better knowing that if he does pass away, it will have been in relative comfort compared to a bare tank.

So that's pretty much where we're all at right now. Thank you everyone for all your help, I'll keep you all updated  :Smile:

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## Gabby

THIS MORNING NED DID A POOP AND THIS EVENING NED ATE AT LEAST THREE BIG FAT JUICY FRUIT FLIES ALL BY HIMSELF!!! :Big Applause:   :Big Grin: 
I AM SO OVER THE MOON HEHEHE! GOOD ON YOU NED! YOU ARE MAKING ME PROUD!

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## Heather

Yay!!!!!!  :Smile:  Go Ned! This is a great sign  :Smile: .

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## Heather

For Mr. Chubbs, I think I'd give him a nice calcium soak today also. I'd do a calci soak then give him a bit to relax. later on do some pedi mix drops. just mix a small amt and do a few drops onto his back with the needless syringe. Poor little fella. I hope he comes around. Hang in there.

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## Gabby

Thank you Heather. I'll do just that. 
I really hope he makes it too. I feel like if Ned can do it, so can Chubbs.. I'll keep trying  :Smile:

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## Heather

To Mr. Chubbs

Thought maybe this would help  :Big Grin: .

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## Gabby

> To Mr. Chubbs
> 
> Thought maybe this would help .


So cute!

I think maybe it did... he seems to have been perking up a little over the past few days... touch wood this is an actual improvement, not just me being overly optimistic!

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## Heather

Crossing fingers!

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## Gabby

Well... he's still hanging in there. Yesterday I gave him a Pedialyte soak, but in the evening he seemed to have gotten worse... he was very weak. So me being the sentimental person I am decided to get my nice camera out and take some beautiful photos of him in case he passed away overnight. It didn't seem to stress him out too much. I woke up this morning, and thankfully he was still alive and kicking-- he'd climbed the wall of his hospital tank, bless him.
 I think I'll just continue trying to get his energy up, so Pedialyte soaks daily, and a calcium soak every second day. Should I try a Repta-Boost soak again? It seemed to give him more energy...

Also, I'm still referring to Mr Chubbs as a "he"... but Mr Chubbs may actually be Miss Chubbs... He/she is a similar size and build to Pippin haha

Here are the photos, the file sizes are too big to upload directly to the forum  :Frown: 
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=52210eba3b

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## Heather

What a beautiful frog! Yes, you could try the reptaboost. 

I can really appreciate how hard you're trying for him or maybe her.

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## redeyedtreefrog123451

I know this is late but it looks like red belly read this to help with future problems http://frogdaze.com/site/mobile?url=...ctor.html#2903

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## Gabby

It's not red-leg. I've noticed all my frogs tend to get a reddish belly and legs if they're stressed out. In any case, Mr Chubbs isn't red at all any more, he's a pale creamy colour on his underside. But thanks for the contribution  :Smile:  I'm still trying to figure out what's got him laid low  :Frown:

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## Gabby

I'm obviously being a little slow here lol. Mr Chubbs likely has MBD. I say this because Ned had it, and they were both on the same diet, and Mr Chubbs symptoms fit those of MDB: lethargy, no appetite, he's stopped jumping, and the other day I saw some of his toes twitching (also, his back toes are all stuck together and don't grip things properly) :Frown:  it's like Deja Vu. 

So I guess it's the vigilant calcium soak regime all over again! And I'll keep giving him Pedialyte and Repta-Boost soaks, they help a lot with his energy. I feel much better now that I know what I'm dealing with  :Smile:

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## Heather

I agree.

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