# Frogs & Toads > Pacman Frogs >  Help! Frog may be impacted

## lovenokia

I picked(as in held him/her) up my pacman today, and felt something really hard on the right side.  I think it could be a rock, though i am not sure how it got into the frog terranium at the moment.  What should i do?

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## lovenokia

the pics

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## Evolution

Try soaking him in lukewarm water with pedialyte in a 10:1 mixture. 10 parts water 1 part pedialyte.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Warm bath with 3 to 4 drops of honey. soak for 15 minutes and prepare a second bath with only one drop and soak another 15 minutes. Be sure that you pour some of the water over his back and over his vent. water level should be normal depth no deeper than up to his chin and like warm. You can gently massage his side in small circles towards his vent and I mean very gently.

Keep us posted

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## lovenokia

I found some honey in the house, found some lukewarm water but do not have pedialyte.  I am trying to find a bowl that i can place him/her in right now.

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## Evolution

Honey works just as well. Good luck hopefully it helps. Has he pooped recently?  Also if you try the pedialyte style soak make sure to get unflavored.

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## lovenokia

he has not pooped in about 4 days, going to be 5 days now should i feed today?

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## lovenokia

okay looks like there is a small piece of poop sticking out of his/her but now.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> he has not pooped in about 4 days, going to be 5 days now should i feed today?


No. If you feed him if could make it worse.

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## lovenokia

Okay, when should be the next time to feed? after the lump of the right side(frogs right side) is gone?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Okay, when should be the next time to feed? after the lump of the right side(frogs right side) is gone?


Yes. after he poops.

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## lovenokia

> Yes. after he poops.


How long do problems like these last generally?

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## lovenokia

where should the frog be moved after the warm bath?

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## Pluke

I just bought a pacman last saturday and I think he was a little impacted since he hadn't used the bathroom until last night and had a hard lump on his left side. I soaked the little guy in honey water 3 days in a row for 20 minutes and he finally went last night. After soaking him in the honey water I would set him in the water bowl in his tank and he'd sit there. Last night he finally went to the bathroom in his tanks bowl after a soak in honey. Hopefully everything comes out alright for your little guy.  :Smile:

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## Colleen/Jerrod

As Pluke said you'll want to place him in his water dish after his soak is finished. Be sure to place warm water in it as well. Then leave him be.

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## Ra

I had one that I recently purchased, an Ornate that didnt poop for eleven days. I did a warm water soak inw ater that the frog had to kick and swim in as leg movement generally helps animals go (even humans) and after a pretty lengthy soak placed him in a plain terrarium with shallow water. He pooed the next day one massive deuce and has been eating like a champ and doing fine since.

 The frog in that picture could really use a good deuce. WHat have you been feeding that thing?

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## lovenokia

> I had one that I recently purchased, an Ornate that didnt poop for eleven days. I did a warm water soak inw ater that the frog had to kick and swim in as leg movement generally helps animals go (even humans) and after a pretty lengthy soak placed him in a plain terrarium with shallow water. He pooed the next day one massive deuce and has been eating like a champ and doing fine since.
> 
>  The frog in that picture could really use a good deuce. WHat have you been feeding that thing?


First day mealworms, second day super worms, and now just crickets with a 3x a week calcium with d3 dusting and herptivite once a week

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## lovenokia

Pic that I took a while ago, but forget to post

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> First day mealworms, second day super worms, and now just crickets with a 3x a week calcium with d3 dusting and herptivite once a week


Huge mistake. Never feed them mealworms or superworms. very dangerous for baby frogs. they can't digest the chitin that the exoskeleton is made up of and impaction is usually the result.

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## Murray of the Deep

> Huge mistake. Never feed them mealworms or superworms. very dangerous for baby frogs. they can't digest the chitin that the exoskeleton is made up of and impaction is usually the result.


i agree with grif my frog died also because of that , sorry for your loss , and also grif can you clean some of your pm messages i cant send you any pms

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## lovenokia

> Huge mistake. Never feed them mealworms or superworms. very dangerous for baby frogs. they can't digest the chitin that the exoskeleton is made up of and impaction is usually the result.


This was what petsmart told me to feed till I found out of the frog forum. I don't think that two days could be this bad.  I have been dusting his food and herptivite and treated water so outside out the two days I don't think I did too much wrong.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> This was what petsmart told me to feed till I found out of the frog forum. I don't think that two days could be this bad.  I have been dusting his food and herptivite and treated water so outside out the two days I don't think I did too much wrong.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


It only takes one superworms to impact a baby frog. Even a few mealworms once can cause it. Trust me when I say they are unsafe. You would have been better off if you would have Fed him waxworms instead.

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## lovenokia

> It only takes one superworms to impact a baby frog. Even a few mealworms once can cause it. Trust me when I say they are unsafe. You would have been better off if you would have Fed him waxworms instead.


So the crickets that I have been dusting with calcium d3 and herptivite did not cause any of this?  The mealworms from the first day and the superworms on the second day are what caused this? I want to know because I do not want this happening again.

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## lovenokia

I would like to add that the frog is completey buried underground, it has not done this since yesterday in the almost two weeks of owning him/her.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> I would like to add that the frog is completey buried underground, it has not done this since yesterday in the almost two weeks of owning him/her.


The only way the crickets would cause this is if you are feeding crickets that are too large.

They do occasionally burrow themselves all the way.  That's nothing to worry about.

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## lovenokia

> The only way the crickets would cause this is if you are feeding crickets that are too large.
> 
> They do occasionally burrow themselves all the way.  That's nothing to worry about.


I was feeding small crickets, though some of them were larger than others

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## DVirginiana

> I was feeding small crickets, though some of them were larger than others
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


After this impaction gets cleared up, you might want to try feeding chunks of nightcrawlers.  They're easier to get and keep than crickets and they're way easier on the frog's digestive system.

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## lovenokia

> After this impaction gets cleared up, you might want to try feeding chunks of nightcrawlers.  They're easier to get and keep than crickets and they're way easier on the frog's digestive system.


Couldn't find any in my area, by will try more stores

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Couldn't find any in my area, by will try more stores
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


Just make sure they are dye/chemical free. They often add dyes and such to the worms to make them more attractive to fish but this is deadly to frogs. Also, they should have a clean "earthy" smell. If they smell or look bad, don't feed them to your frog. It is always better safe than sorry.

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## lovenokia

here is an update pic, he/she is not looking very good atm the moment.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Yes, that is definitely a bad impaction. Keep doing the soaks. Try adding a little more honey. You can gently (Gently!) massage its right side starting up by the shoulder and slowly working back towards the cloaca. Sometime this will help move it along. You can also try putting a scoop of the Repta-aid in the water. Mix it in well before putting the frog in it. Prepare a second bath of lukewarm de-chlorinated water to rinse it off of him. Keep us posted.

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## lovenokia

I havent had a chance to get the repta aid yet, but doing another soaking of warm water and honey, frog still impacted.  If it doesn't eat will it die?

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## Ra

It will take a long time for the frog to start losing weight from not eating let alone starve to death. Giving the frogs digestive system a break from food to work on moving all that chitin wont hurt. You should put a wet glove on a massage the impaction a bit throughout the day each day to help maybe dislodge it. 
 Have you been keeping the frog in a bare bottom or paper towel lined bottom with shallow water? My frogs always seem to have an easier time pooping when they are kept in water, and sometimes when I switch them to bare bottom water set ups to wash all my moss they poop within the hour.
 Plus, if you use a bare bottom water set up, you will be able to see whats in any of the poop that may show up. Im betting you are going to find lots and lots of mealworm husks.

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## lovenokia

When the soaking the frog, I mix the honey and water n the bowl, then put SME paper towel then I let my frog in there for 20 or so minutes. After the soaking is done then I shall put the fog back into the terranium.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

Try to get the Repta-aid. That is really the best thing to give your frog right now. It will help pass the impaction and give the frog nutrients. You don't want him to get too weak or it will be harder for him to push the impaction out. Don't do too many of the honey soaks. They are really only meant to be used once a week or so. Rotate between regular lukewarm soaks and honey soaks.

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## lovenokia

Okay, will try to get repta boost.  And just use lukewarm water with honey soaks.
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## lovenokia

Okay, I just got the repta boost, had a busy day.

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## lovenokia

put from in one scoop of repta boost, frog shaking sometimes and trying to climb out.

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## lovenokia

update pics below

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> put from in one scoop of repta boost, frog shaking sometimes and trying to climb out.


He is probably a little scared and stressed. Does it feel like the lump has moved back towards the vent yet?

Remember after the bath with Repta-aid, prepare a second bath of lukewarm de-chlorinated water to rinse it off of him.

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## lovenokia

okay, is the impaction looking any better? the hump seems to be going more towards the but right now from what i am able to see.

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## Ra

If there has been movement that is a good sign. I want to see a picture of the poop when it comes out.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> okay, is the impaction looking any better? the hump seems to be going more towards the but right now from what i am able to see.


Keep up the soaks and keep us posted.

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## lovenokia

Well, frog is still impacted , no poop and I still see the big lump, I am getting a little worried now. Though it seems that the impaction may have moved be closer to the butt, I don't think it moved much yet.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Well, frog is still impacted , no poop and I still see the big lump, I am getting a little worried now. Though it seems that the impaction may have moved be closer to the butt, I don't think it moved much yet.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


Sometimes it takes a while Keep up with the soaks and be patient. If he doesn't pass the impact in the next 2 or 3 days you may have to seek out a Herp Vet and see if you can get some liquid laxatives to help pass the blockage. You can try force feeding him a dose if the Repta-Aid(Repta-Boost). A lot of the time it will help pass an impaction.

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## lovenokia

GOOD NEWS! Turns out my frog ingested large amounts of the cocofiber, and the hump of the side of my frog has shrunk tremendously.  Currently I am seeing coco fiber coming out of the butt at this moment.  The soakings helped a lot.  I think from now on I will only feed on paper towels and do away with feeding on the substrate.

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## lovenokia

pic update

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## lovenokia

I know how this happened now, when I was feeding crickets to my frog, sometimes he/she would miss and it looked like it was chewing something after it missed.  I didn't think that it was eating the substrate the entire time!  Well for all you new froggers like myself, i recommend to feed in paper towels if you are gonna be using crickets.

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## lovenokia

My frog still has some ways to poop, felt the side of his/her tummy and it is still firm, just the lump is a lot smaller now.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> i agree with grif my frog died also because of that , sorry for your loss , and also grif can you clean some of your pm messages i cant send you any pms


Its not an issue if you teach your frog go tong feed. You shouldn't just out right recommend something based on one experience you have had and coco fiber doesn't cause impaction UNLESS it wasn't properly loosened or the frog ingest a large fiber that is hard and not soft. I never use paper towels. The only other way coco fiber causes impaction isn't because of the fiber itself, but from debris found in it that need to be removed after expansion by sifting through with your fingers.

Look for stones, pieces of plastic, hard fibers, sticks and twigs, seeds, and other plant matter like leaves and grass.

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## lovenokia

Well, something caused the impaction, I saw coco fiber coming out, the lump is smaller now but still isn't cleared out.  Maybe it was the mealworms, I won't doubt it.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Well, something caused the impaction, I saw coco fiber coming out, the lump is smaller now but still isn't cleared out.  Maybe it was the mealworms, I won't doubt it.


It could have been a few thing, but its hard to tell. Hopefully its just slightly constipated. Full blown impaction is bad and usually is very difficult to pass because its usually caused by something that cannot be digested such as stones, bark, eat.

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## connor111699

I hope they'll be ok!

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## lovenokia

> It could have been a few thing, but its hard to tell. Hopefully its just slightly constipated. Full blown impaction is bad and usually is very difficult to pass because its usually caused by something that cannot be digested such as stones, bark, eat.


okay, hopefully I can avoid this next time.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> okay, hopefully I can avoid this next time.


Tong feeding is best, but you can just drop chunks of worm in front of him when you can feed him after the impaction passes. This way he isn't missing so much.

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## TeeRiddle

My Pac is *slowly* learning to tong feed, but doesn't always feed from the tongs. When he shys away from the tongs I use some playing cards as "plates".

Basically, I had a brand new box of playing cards that I never used. I take a card out and wash it thoroughly with warm dechlorinated water, dry it off, then set it in front of him at feeding time. I then place a dusted nightcrawler piece on the card and once it wiggles a couple times he snatches it off the card.

I do this for a couple reasons - to prevent the dusted worm from picking up pieces of substrate and to prevent the worm from making a mess in the terrarium.

Once I'm done feeding him I take the card out and wash it thoroughly again (to remove all the yucky, slimy worm gunk) and reuse it the next day or next feeding.

It works pretty good in my situation. If your frog lurches at any little movement in front of it this may not be a great solution because it will probably go after you and the card when you set it in. If you have a more cautious frog like mine it might work well.

The only issue I've ever had doing this is one time Orion lunged forward and stepped on the edge of the card flipping the card over and dumping worm parts on his head. It was like something from The Three Stooges. Quite comical  :Smile: 

Maybe you could try something like this to feed your Pac worms without the worry of it accidentally gulping some substrate.

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## lovenokia

> Tong feeding is best, but you can just drop chunks of worm in front of him when you can feed him after the impaction passes. This way he isn't missing so much.


this frog isn't a problem feeder, just even if I put tongue in front of his mouth he will snatch the tongue.  I have to be careful tongue feeding, I found a plastic tongue feeder at petco but still have the metal one which is longer, one but I still didn't get a chance to get a rubber tipped one.

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## lovenokia

> My Pac is *slowly* learning to tong feed, but doesn't always feed from the tongs. When he shys away from the tongs I use some playing cards as "plates".
> 
> Basically, I had a brand new box of playing cards that I never used. I take a card out and wash it thoroughly with warm dechlorinated water, dry it off, then set it in front of him at feeding time. I then place a dusted nightcrawler piece on the card and once it wiggles a couple times he snatches it off the card.
> 
> I do this for a couple reasons - to prevent the dusted worm from picking up pieces of substrate and to prevent the worm from making a mess in the terrarium.
> 
> Once I'm done feeding him I take the card out and wash it thoroughly again (to remove all the yucky, slimy worm gunk) and reuse it the next day or next feeding.
> 
> It works pretty good in my situation. If your frog lurches at any little movement in front of it this may not be a great solution because it will probably go after you and the card when you set it in. If you have a more cautious frog like mine it might work well.
> ...


Thanks, I will have to try the method you recommend.   My frog snatches at any cricket in front of him, though it never even once tried to bite my finger even though it was in front of his mouth more time than not.

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## connor111699

> My Pac is *slowly* learning to tong feed, but doesn't always feed from the tongs. When he shys away from the tongs I use some playing cards as "plates".
> 
> Basically, I had a brand new box of playing cards that I never used. I take a card out and wash it thoroughly with warm dechlorinated water, dry it off, then set it in front of him at feeding time. I then place a dusted nightcrawler piece on the card and once it wiggles a couple times he snatches it off the card.
> 
> I do this for a couple reasons - to prevent the dusted worm from picking up pieces of substrate and to prevent the worm from making a mess in the terrarium.
> 
> Once I'm done feeding him I take the card out and wash it thoroughly again (to remove all the yucky, slimy worm gunk) and reuse it the next day or next feeding.
> 
> It works pretty good in my situation. If your frog lurches at any little movement in front of it this may not be a great solution because it will probably go after you and the card when you set it in. If you have a more cautious frog like mine it might work well.
> ...


Thats an awesime idea tthanks for sharing!

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## Ra

> Its not an issue if you teach your frog go tong feed. You shouldn't just out right recommend something based on one experience you have had and coco fiber doesn't cause impaction UNLESS it wasn't properly loosened or the frog ingest a large fiber that is hard and not soft. I never use paper towels. The only other way coco fiber causes impaction isn't because of the fiber itself, but from debris found in it that need to be removed after expansion by sifting through with your fingers.
> 
> Look for stones, pieces of plastic, hard fibers, sticks and twigs, seeds, and other plant matter like leaves and grass.



 Coco fiber can most certainly cause impaction, and its not the first time ive seen or heard of it. In fact, the only source that I have seen that is promoting the idea that it is digestable is the companies that are selling who can say whatever they want because there is no regulatory commision to stop them from making any statement they would like. I have heard of reptiles being found dead with coco fiber in their throat, dying from impaction due to ingesting it and so on. ANY loose substrate that can get in their mouth can cause an impaction no matter what it is.
 I think Lovenokias suggestion is spot on, and most authors and experienced herp keepers will suggest that Pacman Frogs are best fed on a smooth bare surface to avoid ingestion of substrate.

 Coco fiber may offer a LOWER possibility of impaction by ingestion, but it doesnt outright rule out the possibility by any means.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Coco fiber can most certainly cause impaction, and its not the first time ive seen or heard of it. In fact, the only source that I have seen that is promoting the idea that it is digestable is the companies that are selling who can say whatever they want because there is no regulatory commision to stop them from making any statement they would like. I have heard of reptiles being found dead with coco fiber in their throat, dying from impaction due to ingesting it and so on. ANY loose substrate that can get in their mouth can cause an impaction no matter what it is.
>  I think Lovenokias suggestion is spot on, and most authors and experienced herp keepers will suggest that Pacman Frogs are best fed on a smooth bare surface to avoid ingestion of substrate.
> 
>  Coco fiber may offer a LOWER possibility of impaction by ingestion, but it doesnt outright rule out the possibility by any means.


Reptiles are not Amphibians first off. I do not work for nor do I plan to work for said companies and I have always used Coco fiber. The only time it becomes and issue is if it is prepared incorrectly which happens quite often.

Ra you seem to claim a lot of the info I provide to be false and it almost seems like you do it purposely. Coconut Fiber is completely safe WHEN PREPARED CORRECTLY. You use moss WHICH is most definitely a impaction risk and has always been. When you have to remove a long strand out of your frogs Cloaca maybe then you'll realize that. I have had to do so and you may remove your frogs for feeding, BUT I bet that you don't remove them when they shed and the moss ox stuck to them. You know very well that they eat their shed and anything stuck to their shed becomes ingested. 

Now I'm not sure if you do this purposely to try and discredit many of my responses and advice or absentmindedly. Quite frankly its annoying 
NOTHING other than food should be ingested, but the safest that is less likely to cause impaction is in fact Coconut Fiber and tong feeding is used to limit any being ingested, but proper preparation of the substrate and removal of any hazardous objects should be removed.

There are several that can back my information if needs be, BUT if there is some kind of misunderstanding once again please feel free to say so.

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## lovenokia

Just found HUGE PIECE OF POOP!!!!!!
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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Just found HUGE PIECE OF POOP!!!!!!
> Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express


Was it really hard? Is the frog acting fine?

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## lovenokia

Frog is acting just fine, the poop was really really firm, similar to what i felt when it was in the stomach.
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## lovenokia

Do I still need to soak my frog in repta boost? Can I start feeding my frog again now?

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Do I still need to soak my frog in repta boost? Can I start feeding my frog again now?


No more soaking in or giving him Repta-Aid(Repta-Boost). Go ahead and offer food. You're going to want to start breaking apart the frogs poop before discarding it to keep an eye on what he may be accidentally ingesting. Usually with Coco Fiber the cause is debris within the soil or a hard fiber in the substrate. There will also be large balls up tangles of the fibers occasionally in substrate that you want to remove. Anything and everything you find when breaking apart an expanded brick or moistening the bagged pre-expanded coco fiber. This will prevent future impaction or constipation risks.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> and what about earthworms? are they also dangerous for my green frogs?


Is this a serious question?

If so then no and yes. If the worms contain chemicals from being artificially scented or chemical dyes they will be toxic to your frogs and kill them. If they have no chemicals or dyes then they are perfectly safe and actually a excellent source of nutrition for your frogs.

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## lovenokia

> No more soaking in or giving him Repta-Aid(Repta-Boost). Go ahead and offer food. You're going to want to start breaking apart the frogs poop before discarding it to keep an eye on what he may be accidentally ingesting. Usually with Coco Fiber the cause is debris within the soil or a hard fiber in the substrate. There will also be large balls up tangles of the fibers occasionally in substrate that you want to remove. Anything and everything you find when breaking apart an expanded brick or moistening the bagged pre-expanded coco fiber. This will prevent future impaction or constipation risks.


should I replace all the eco earth right now and put a new batch of eco earth that was already expanded or should I get some that wasn't pre expanded? 
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## Colleen/Jerrod

> should I replace all the eco earth right now and put a new batch of eco earth that was already expanded or should I get some that wasn't pre expanded? 
> Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express


Either is fine. I use the compressed bricks and expand them because its easier to just squeeze the moisture out to the level if moisture you want than to add it to the pre-expanded stuff. Its more of a personal preference. I will say that the compressed bricks can be cheaper because sometimes you can find a pack of 3 bricks for $7.99 and the pre-expanded bags are usually $9.99 and have way less substrate in comparison.

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## Ra

> Reptiles are not Amphibians first off. I do not work for nor do I plan to work for said companies and I have always used Coco fiber. The only time it becomes and issue is if it is prepared incorrectly which happens quite often.
> 
> Ra you seem to claim a lot of the info I provide to be false and it almost seems like you do it purposely. Coconut Fiber is completely safe WHEN PREPARED CORRECTLY. You use moss WHICH is most definitely a impaction risk and has always been. When you have to remove a long strand out of your frogs Cloaca maybe then you'll realize that. I have had to do so and you may remove your frogs for feeding, BUT I bet that you don't remove them when they shed and the moss ox stuck to them. You know very well that they eat their shed and anything stuck to their shed becomes ingested. 
> 
> Now I'm not sure if you do this purposely to try and discredit many of my responses and advice or absentmindedly. Quite frankly its annoying 
> NOTHING other than food should be ingested, but the safest that is less likely to cause impaction is in fact Coconut Fiber and tong feeding is used to limit any being ingested, but proper preparation of the substrate and removal of any hazardous objects should be removed.
> 
> There are several that can back my information if needs be, BUT if there is some kind of misunderstanding once again please feel free to say so.


 I meant to say reptiles and amphibians. Most of the claims about the safety of coco fiber originate with the company that makes them. Im not disagreeing with you just to challenge you or shoot you down, I disagree when my opinions differ and thats all. 
 I will agree and say that coco fiber is the safest option, but it can still be dangerous if ingested in large quantities which is why I would suggest frogs be fed on a flat surface or tong fed.
 Generally they shed in their water dish, and I have never seen moss stick to them. I have however seen small strands of moss in their poop, but it seems to pass easily. I would never place live free roaming food into a terrarium for pacman frogs whether it had moss or soil, especially not with a baby pacman frog. Its a moot point for me because I tong feed and I dont actually use moss as Ive switched to foam rubber and water.

 As for whether you find me disagreeing with certain things you say annoying, I dont really care. Different people have different opinions and while you have a high number of posts and seem to taken as the pacman frog authority on the website, there are still other opinions and Im not going to stop sharing them because it bothers you.

 I dont think there is any misunderstanding at all. The impaction risk is still there if your frogs are ingesting substrate while eating, even if you use coco fiber. 

 I was NOT suggesting people stop using coco fiber, i was supporting lovenokia's suggestion to feed on a flat surface or feed with tongs.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> I meant to say reptiles and amphibians. Most of the claims about the safety of coco fiber originate with the company that makes them. Im not disagreeing with you just to challenge you or shoot you down, I disagree when my opinions differ and thats all. 
>  I will agree and say that coco fiber is the safest option, but it can still be dangerous if ingested in large quantities which is why I would suggest frogs be fed on a flat surface or tong fed.
>  Generally they shed in their water dish, and I have never seen moss stick to them. I have however seen small strands of moss in their poop, but it seems to pass easily. I would never place live free roaming food into a terrarium for pacman frogs whether it had moss or soil, especially not with a baby pacman frog. Its a moot point for me because I tong feed and I dont actually use moss as Ive switched to foam rubber and water.
> 
>  As for whether you find me disagreeing with certain things you say annoying, I dont really care. Different people have different opinions and while you have a high number of posts and seem to taken as the pacman frog authority on the website, there are still other opinions and Im not going to stop sharing them because it bothers you.
> 
>  I dont think there is any misunderstanding at all. The impaction risk is still there if your frogs are ingesting substrate while eating, even if you use coco fiber. 
> 
>  I was NOT suggesting people stop using coco fiber, i was supporting lovenokia's suggestion to feed on a flat surface or feed with tongs.


Gotcha! So occasionally we will agree to disagree  :Wink:  and no harm done.

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## Heather

I think it's refreshing to see you can agree to disagree  :Smile: .

Just thought I'd mention...since I have started to pat down the coco fiber substrate in front of where I feed my frogs (if they don't feel like tong feeding that night), they seem to take in way less substrate when hunting. 

I have also found that a nightly soak after dinner seems to keep them well hydrated and "regular" in terms of passing stool. My girls have done this for so long now that they often just get into their water bowls after dinner. If not, I just gently set them in every night. They shed very easily too and have minimal substrate on them when shedding due to the fresh soaks. 

 :Smile:

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## lovenokia

Bad News, frog may be constipated again.  After my frog recovered, the next day i feed i crickets in the terrarium, I was out of town with my frog, and that was the only thing I could find in the area.  Then as I traveled back, My frog went about 1.5 days without food.  Once I arrived I purchased night crawlers and began to feed them.  Today I noticed my frog was really really puffy and larger than normal, then I held held him/her for a bit than water came all over my hand and the frog became normal again. Right after than I noticed a hump actually one larger and 1 smaller near the but similar to what my frog had before.  Is it possible my frog was indigestion problems? 
I have a pic, but this pic was before I put my frog in water again and which it immediately became larger again.

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## Ra

I.5 days without food isnt that long at all...
 They look puffy after you feed them. I have a frog thats pooped once since this thread started. I keep feeding him, he has access to water and I soak him once a week. Eventually, the frog will poop.
 They look puffy when they hold water too, which they do cause they are frogs. If they then become nervous and afriad (from say, handling...) then they will release all the water they are holding. They pee alot. Thats why substrate and water need to be changed frequantly regardless of how much they poop.

 Keep feeding the frog and make sure its conditions are right and it has access to water. If you are taking it with you on trips out of town, chances are its a bit stressed out.

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## Namio

> Bad News, frog may be constipated again.  After my frog recovered, the next day i feed i crickets in the terrarium, I was out of town with my frog, and that was the only thing I could find in the area.  Then as I traveled back, My frog went about 1.5 days without food.  Once I arrived I purchased night crawlers and began to feed them.  Today I noticed my frog was really really puffy and larger than normal, then I held held him/her for a bit than water came all over my hand and the frog became normal again. Right after than I noticed a hump actually one larger and 1 smaller near the but similar to what my frog had before.  Is it possible my frog was indigestion problems? 
> I have a pic, but this pic was before I put my frog in water again and which it immediately became larger again.



I think you're frog is fine.  Amphibians, as you know, have semi-permeable skin that makes water loss potentially a lethal problem. So cleverly what they do is that they tend to hold pee in their body, this basically allows them to have more solvents in their body, making osmotic pressure in their favor.  Instead of losing water into the environment (when the substrate is drier than frog's body), they draws valuable moisture into their bodies by having a higher concentration of liquid (urine) within their bodies.  This is a completely normal phenomenon. 
When you pick your frog up it was probably startled so it released all the piss it was holding, lol, but that is totally normal and fine. So afterwards when it was chilling in the waterbowl the frog took the chance to rehydrate again.

When the frog eats something, the food item does not necessarily distribute in their stomach evenly, so it's possible the crickets and/or nightcrawler just happened to be on more of one side of the belly.

To sum up, I think your frog is fine.

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## lovenokia

So can I continue feeding my frog then? Will anything bad happen if I do or not.  thanks

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## lovenokia

Thanks, so you think that my frog looks okay and I can continue feeding him/her? I am worried because I have heard of pacmans eating till they die, and I don't want that to happen to mine.

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## Pluke

I'm sure it's ok to feed your frog, I've heard the same thing but my pacmans seem to know their limits. They eat a certain amount of food a night then they are done. Mine are still young so that's why they are fed every night.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

You can keep feeding him. Now is not the time to worry. Honestly you are worrying too much which I understand when you care for your frog, but your stress can become his stress because animals can sense emotions by the pheromones your body releases. They can pick up on these and become stressed. Be calm, be patient, and be gentle and the frog will not feel threatened. Frequent handling when not necessary will also make the frog become stressed so only do it when necessary. Very VERY few Ceratophrys don't mind being handled so keep that in mind.

If your frog becomes severely bloated and believe me you will know when this happens because the frogs activity will halt and it will become lethargic.

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## lovenokia

> You can keep feeding him. Now is not the time to worry. Honestly you are worrying too much which I understand when you care for your frog, but your stress can become his stress because animals can sense emotions by the pheromones your body releases. They can pick up on these and become stressed. Be calm, be patient, and be gentle and the frog will not feel threatened. Frequent handling when not necessary will also make the frog become stressed so only do it when necessary. Very VERY few Ceratophrys don't mind being handled so keep that in mind.
> 
> If your frog becomes severely bloated and believe me you will know when this happens because the frogs activity will halt and it will become lethargic.


okay, I am a super n00b to pacman frogs and after had a frog dieojg on me once, I don't want this one to die either.

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## Namio

> okay, I am a super n00b to pacman frogs and after had a frog dieojg on me once, I don't want this one to die either.


No worries. Keep asking questions because that's why we're here. It's better to be safe than sorry.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> okay, I am a super n00b to pacman frogs and after had a frog dieojg on me once, I don't want this one to die either.


I understand and amphibians can be tricky. There have been perfectly healthy frogs that are eating well and have no health issues one day and the next they're gone. Like they've died in their sleep. Most of the time it doesn't make sense, but all you can do is provide the best home you can and feed them well. I'm certain everything will be alright. I have a couple frogs that go through this constipation problem almost weekly and they always pass it. Just don't freak out and remain calm.  :Smile:

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## lovenokia

I found a HUGE piece of poop, I think my frog is okay for now.

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> I found a HUGE piece of poop, I think my frog is okay for now.


See! Don't panic. Most of the time their is nothing to worry about.

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