# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > Dart Frog Health & Illness >  Lost Tarapotos

## obsidianembrace

For my first post here, I have sad news.  :Frown:  Thank you so much to anyone who takes the time to read this and respond.

I obtained a pair of tarapotos (thumbnails) at the end of September at a reptile show, my first dart frogs. In my research it says intermediate but I've always taken very good care of my animals and figured as long as the husbandry is right and I known enough to leave them alone (which I do!) they would do great. They have been in a temporary XL Kritter Keeper with 80% of the top covered in ceran wrap while I finish up their 12x12x18 build. I had been researching and started their terrarium a few weeks in advance. 

Their temporary set up was small but there was a layer of eco-earth, thick sphagnum moss, and leaf litter with a few bark pieces thrown in for extra hiding spots and a small colony of springtails to keep it clean. I had fly colonies all ready of the melognaster (sp?) and fed them about 15-20 flies every day. I misted very heavily at night and lightly in the morning to keep the sphagnum moist. I heard the male call a few times, and they were often out adventuring, female following him around, in the evenings. I didn't dig to find them at all (luckily they usually slept right next to the edge under leaves but I could see them  :Embarrassment: ) I felt like I was taking very good care of them while I got their waterfall tank all ready.

I was out of town for two nights and my sister said she would take care of the frogs as well as my geckos. I recently moved into my parent's house for a short stay between apartments, the problem with that is the house is freezing! The geckos need it no lower than 68 consistently, the snakes have thermostats, but it's hard to heat a room to 75 for the frogs! We have a space heater with a thermostat set to 73 (a compromise with my parents who don't understand how important it is...see why this situation is temporary?) which was doing just fine for the first month I had the frogs. But I would often come home to it off; I turned it on so it was on at night when it *really* gets cold (even down to 60). But while I was gone the heater got turned off at some point and I came home to a freezing room, chilly geckos, snakes mashed into hides on top of the heating pads, and two tiny dead frogs buried in the dirt trying to stay warm  :Mad: . It was about the saddest thing I've ever seen.  :Frown: 

I feel so guilty because I'm responsible for them and they didn't know what was happening, nothing they can do. I'm not exactly sure what happened but the heater seems to be the best explanation unless my sister missed the feedings (she said she didn't and I actually believe her..she's good at feeding her toad). She might have missed the mistings (the moss was pretty dry when I got home) which in combination with cold would definitely hurt. Although spraying cold water on them and then cooling down more overnight could make it even worse. 

My question is: what do you think happened? Is the cold a good explanation or do you think it was partly because of the temporary habitat? They seemed be thriving until this point.

This experience hasn't turned me off to darts but it has definitely made me nervous about more. I've resumed researching and still love the tarapotos. My preferences and current available habitat lean towards the thumbnail darts. What do you guys think?

I'm considering trying darts again or milk frogs or even completely guys like Pacman frogs.

Confusing post, I know, but hopefully you can glean what information I'm searching for... I guess I'm not exactly sure either.

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## Jack

I'm so sorry for your loss.  :Frown: 

First of all don't blame yourself or anyone else as these things happen. I think their deaths were due to a combination of low humidity and low temperatures although I may be wrong. I personally feel that you should go with the thumbnails again as this was an accident but do NOT buy them until their permanent setup is complete. Make sure to quarantine new frogs for a month. Again sorry this happened.  :Frown: 

Also you were dusting their food with calcium+d3 right?

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## obsidianembrace

Yes the flies were being dusted with a supplement I got with them from the breeder.

The set up is ready to be planted now, I've continued with finishing it. The one good thing is now I've taken into account how cold a water feature can make the tank. So I'm thinking I will get a little low power aquarium heater to heat the water reservoir at the bottom of the tank.

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## Jack

If the air temp is fine then the temperature of the water shouldn't matter as darts don't spend a lot of time soaking in the water.

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## obsidianembrace

Quarantine from each other? Or from all other animals? They were kept next to my current animals but* all their supplies were different. This particular pair came from the same tank as adults

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## Carlos

Sorry for the frogs death  :Frown:  .  As long as you are staying at your parent's house and they prefer a cold setting in thermostat; would recommend stay with frogs that can handle 60s like toads, Tomato frogs, etc.  Better luck next time  :Smile:  !

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## obsidianembrace

Doesn't moving water in a terrarium cool down the air around it? Just like how riverbeds are cooler?

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## FrogRN

How big was your critter keeper?  Although the thumbnails are small, they do need a good deal of space (rule of thumb = 5 gallons per frog, min).  In this case I would think they were already pretty stressed by being couped up in a little container at the show, then moved to a slightly larger container with a roomate.  The final straw was a low spike in temps and a varying humidity.  It would be best to have a stable environment for them.  They are usually pretty good at tolerating acute drops in temperature (moreso than high spikes).  I think everything together was a little too much.  However, don't give up.  
BTW, I would strongly recommend you avoid in tank heaters.  The thermostats on them go out more often than not and they can cause big temperature problems.  Again, stable is more important than a little too cool.

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## Paul

Sorry to hear about your loss  :Frown: 

I heat both my frog tanks with an Aquatic heater only (no other heat source). No issues so far and the heated water actually helps with the humidity. Just need to keep an eye on the water level and make sure it doesn't drop to low.

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