# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > Beginner Discussion >  Which dart's for a 38 gallon tank?

## Isaac

Hi,

i have 38 gallon tank and i would like to make it a dart tank.

it is 60cm x 60cm x 40cm and the top of the tank is wire mesh.

i want to construct a vivarium out of it for dart frogs but i dont really know wich species are good for a intermediate-beginner (i have 2 white tree frogs and 2 chameleons).
i would like to know wich species and the amount of darts i could settle in this tank.
furthermore i would like a not to shy species of darts so i can see them during the day.

hope you guy's could give me some info!!!

greetings, isaac

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## bshmerlie

I think Leucs or Azureus or some other species of tincs would be good to start off with.  They are bold, beautiful and easy to care for.  With Luecs you could do a group of three to four. Some of those others are more territorial and should only be kept in mated pairs. You are going to have to get rid of the screen top and switch to a glass top to maintain the required humidity levels.  If the screen is part of a sliding top you can set plexi or glass into the area to cover it up.  Do some research you have a lot of options.  But check out those Leucs you wont be disappointed.

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## Isaac

thanks for the quick reply, 

i think i would go for the leucs beacouse they could be kept in a group of 3-4...

any more good advice about the tank?

greetings, isaac

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## bshmerlie

Set up a horizontal enclosure but use ramps, slopes and tiers and you will find them on the background. They are very active. As babies they climb like monkeys but as they mature they will prefer the floor space. Use short broad leafed plants and they will climb up in them. Leaf litter on the ground along with springtails and isopods. Of course you'll need fruit flies. But they are super easy so don't sweat it. A well planted and thought out tank is all you need. They are chubby and good size darts and never give you that delicate feel. Im setting up a tank for a pair of banded Leucs on Saturday. I'll post some pictures.

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## Isaac

ok, so i will use some dry leaves and add some isopods and springtails to the leaves.

ill be looking forward to your pictures!

one more thing:
you said that i need to cover the top of the viv, but since that is the only part that ventilates is there no ventilation anymore when covered... 
how do i solve this?

greetings, isaac

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## bshmerlie

No its not like tree frogs. I recommend keeping the lid completely glass with new folks as they seem to have trouble maintaing a high level of humidity that the darts need.  As you becore more experienced I would suggest leaving an inch section of screen at the back or the front. That will give a little ventilation for the plants such as Broms. But believe it or not just the opening and closing of the lid allows enough ventilation into the tank for the frogs.  Its really more for plant health.  Only you know your own skill level. Set up your tank and measure your humidity levels over several days.  Then add a section of screen and do some more measurments.  If you're able to maintain it with the screen then by all means have "some" screen.  Just go to some websites like Joshs Frogs or Black Jungle and then you can find out what kind of leaves they are using for the leaf litter.  Or I'm sure someone else will know the names I'm just terrible with those kind of things.  I'm sorry I just buy "leaf littler".  Springtails and Isopods you can also pick up from internet sites.

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## Isaac

ok, ill keep it in mind that the humidity superior is to ventilation!
i dont know when i could start this "project" because of the money and time...

after all, thanks for the good advice and ill post something when ill start!

greetings, isaac

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## JimO

I agree that leucs are a good choice. Any of the Galacts do well in groups as well. In fact, I think they breed better when they are in groups. Terribilis do great in groups as well. Depending on how you landscape the viv, you could house 4 or 5 in one that size.

I allow for ventilation by using a standard hinged glass aquarium lid and drilling holes in the plastic strip that clips on to the glass at the back of the tank. For larger frogs, I just drill 1/4-inch or smaller holes. With smaller frogs, or to prevent ffs from escaping, I drill or cut larger holes and then glue a strip of window screen over the holes. I have found that Gorilla Glue works best.

As Cheri indicated, these species are all mostly terrestrial, so they need lots of horizontal surface area. If you decide to create a background and it's deeper than an inch or two, then creating shelves and sloping the substrate from front to back will allow for a variety of surfaces.

I do a lot with leaf litter and it is either functional or just for loosk. The best functional leaf litter has several layers that are at least a total of 3 inches thick. I usually put less durable hardwood leaves on the bottom like maple or large-leafed oak. These break down more quickly and provide food for isopods and fungus. The fungus then provides food for springtails. On top of this, I use durable leaves such as magnolia or live oak. You don't want all flat leaves because it doesn't leave much room for the frogs to forage within the leaf litter. Curled and twisted leaves give a third dimension to the litter and not only allows for a healthy population of microfauna, but provides hide spots. I also keep some twigs and bits of oak bark in with the leaves (also boiled).

You can get live oak and magnolia leaves by the gallon from Josh's Frogs or Black Jungle.

Sorry for the long-winded response.  :Embarrassment: 

If you have a false bottom, the water level should be close enough to the base of the bottom of the leaf litter to wick moisture and keep the litter moist. Otherwise, you will need to mist it enough to keep it damp.

I forgot to mention that a layer of sphagnum moss just below the leaf litter will promote moisture retention.

Although it is tempting to put leaves from outside directly into the viv due to all the microfauna that occurs naturally, I boil the leaves before putting them in the viv so that I don't introduce undesireable nemotodes, millipedes or other pests.

Edit - sorry, I just noticed that you aren't in the U.S., so it would be difficult and expensive to get leaves from a U.S. vendor.  Most leaves from members of the magnolia and bay tree family are pretty durable.  Many ficus species have good leaves.  As long as no chemicals have been used in the area, most hardwood tree leaves are safe to use.  You might just have to experiment to find the most durable leaves.

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## Isaac

wow, thats a huge reply and it was all the info that i needed in one single reply! :Big Applause:

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