# Frogs & Toads > Fire Belly Toads (Bombina) >  My toads are turning black!!!

## roxy1043

I am getting really worried - I have two FBs, have had them for a few months. I have had FBs before while I was going up, so I thought I knew everything but now they are turning really dark! They were slightly different shades when we brought them home but now they are both so dark you can barely see their spots! Should I get them a special lamp or could they be sick?? Help!

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## Sherry

Can you post a pic of your enclosure? 
Also can you repost and answer these questions http://www.frogforum.net/pacman-frog...enclosure.html

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## roxy1043

I tried but my phone is acting weird. I have a 18x9x12 tank (lxwxh) that is glass. It is approximately half rocks and half water. I have larger rocks on top of the gravel so they don't accidently swallow small rocks when they are hunting. They have a large rock that is good for hiding and climbing. I also have a small submersible heater to keep the water temp up. They are eating and are active. Bark a lot and try to mate. It is just their color that is off. We feed them twice a week - about a dozen small crickets at a time from Petsmart.

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## roxy1043

1.   Size of enclosure - approximately 18x9x12
2.   # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences 2 FBs, think 1 male and 1 female. Female is noticably larger and fatter
3.   Humidity - unknown - mist 1- 2xs /week
4.   Temperature 65-70
5.   Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish - use room temp water after sitting out 24-48 hrs
6.   Materials used for substrate - basic fish gravel to create a "hill", covered with larger glass rocks (approx quarter size)
7.   Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. - had live plants for the first month - they died and I have not replaced. I also think the frogs may have been eating them? or just destroying them from chasing each other. Have a large plastic rock with lots of hiding places and climbability
_- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv. - everything was rinsed in very hot water - larger rocks were wiped down._
8.    Main food source - crickets (small)
9.    Vitamins and calcium? (how often) - have not used
10.   Lighting - natural light and standard room lamps, no special reptile or aquarium lighting
11.   What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure- there is  a small submersible heat unit under the gravel
12.   When is the last time he/she ate - today
13.   Have you found poop lately -no. but i never found poop with any of my FBs. Have found cricket carcasses after they have been sucked of nutrients
14.   A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) - my cell phone is being weird, as soon as the pics are received in my email I will upload them here
15.   How old is the frog - mature - age unknown
16.   How long have you owned him/her - bought from petstore two months ago
17.   Is the frog wild caught or captive bred - believed to be captive bred
18.   Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats - basic crickets - approx 12 at a time, 2x a week. 
19.   How often the frog is handled - about once a week to remove during tank cleaning
20.   Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area - high traffic room - in the corner. Just two adults in the home
21.   Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) i refill with fresh water about twice a week, try to take larger peices out to wipe down weekly, sometimes every other week

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Mentat

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## Sherry

Ok, I should have said this before but my FBTs turn a very dark color sometimes. I think it has to do with stress, mood, time of day and mine also seem to like to try to blend in to their surroundings. 

First thing I would do is take the heater out of the water because they like the water a little cooler. Between 68-75F :Smile:  I would suggest a water conditioner for the water just to make sure there is no chlorine or heavy metals since these are toxic. They usually wont show symptoms right away but over time they may start to 'tox out'. Some popular brands are Reptisafe, Prime, and API Stress Coat. 

Your setup sounds good. :Smile:  They wont eat live plants, so you don't have to worry about that. However, mine seem to love to trample them.

Food should be dusted with a vitamin supplement every other feeding and dusted with calcium once a week but never both on the same day. Unless using Repashy's Calcium Plus vit. and cal. supplement. Another good brand is Rep-Cal calcium with D3, and Rep-Cal Herptivite. You might want to consider feeding earthworms as well. You will have to cut them up though, into about 1" pieces. Earthworms are much more nutritious than crickets, which even when gut loaded don't have much nutritional value. The toads might not take the nightcrawlers though, since they probably wont move around as much as the crickets. Worth a try though. Baby Dubia Roaches are also a good feeder. I know they are gross though. :Wink:  If I am missing anything feel free to ask!

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## Carlos

> ...
> 5.   Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish - use room temp water after sitting out 24-48 hrs...
> 8.    Main food source - crickets (small)
> 9.    Vitamins and calcium? (how often) - have not used... 
> Have found cricket carcasses after they have been sucked of nutrients...
> 18.   Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats - basic crickets - approx 12 at a time, 2x a week. 
> 19.   How often the frog is handled - about once a week to remove during tank cleaning...
> 21.   Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) i refill with fresh water about twice a week, try to take larger peices out to wipe down weekly, sometimes every other week


OK, Sherry has pretty much covered all possible problem areas; just want to go over couple things. 

5.  The days of aerating water for 24-48 hours to vent out chlorine went away when more stable chloramines were introduced.  Also, as stated, there are heavy metals in water too.  Need to get water conditioner and start using it now. 

8.  Are you gut loading crickets for couple days before feeding them to frogs?  I use Repashy's Bug Burger for that.

9.  CA X2, multivitamins X1 every week.  Do not use on same day and alternate with plain feeding between.  Again, I use the Repashy stuff.

18.  Try to get some night crawlers or red worms (smaller) into that diet.  Can use ones from bait shops, Walmart, etc. as long as they are free of additives like dyes.  Remember to cut worm into smaller pieces.  If one worm is too much for your 2 frogs can cut rear half (pointy end) and feed that first.  Worm will heal; so just feed the other half next time. 

19 & 21.  With current routine you are wiping out your beneficial Ammonia/Nitrite reducing bacteria once a week during tank cleaning.  There is possibility your frogs are exposed to both toxic elements; use de-chlorinated water for wiping tank stuff and cleaning.  Good luck  :Frog Smile:  !

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## Creamballman

One of my FBT turns dark every night then turns normal in the day, while the other one i have maintains its color. If it is still active and seems happy, I wouldn't worry

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## ILuvFrogs

It usually is a early sign of death.  They will play and swim normally, but lose their appetite.  
There is a spray that will turn them back to green, and kill the disease, but you have to also make
sure they eat again.  You can get the spray that works in one day at magicbleunutrition.com/Pets.html, or
magicbleunutrition.com/pets.html I'm not sure.  If you catch it in time you have saved your toad or 
frog from the disease, and then work on getting their appetite back.

If another frog or toad has recently died, use the spray first, and get another toad or frog from a pet store.
Then spray that one too.  Another mate, even forced, is good to prevent the other(s) from dying.

Then work on the appetite, experiment with foods, not necessarily the routine food like crickets,
mealworms, etc, try Beta Fish Food if they wont eat, or dried shrimp.  Even goldfish food.  Sometimes
they just won't eat the traditional, and they may feel full, even though they are not.

This will work as long as you have caught it in time and can get them to eat again.  The spray, turns them
back to green and kills the disease in 24 hours depending on how soon you notice the color change.  It can take a week or more if you catch it later.  Use every day until the frog or toad
is bright green again.  They may not like it, but it works!

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## demon amphibians

i have 20 fire bellies and in the past week 15 have darkened. 3 are black i mean shining black. the are active and are eating normally. what was explained to me is that light, temp and humidity play a huge part in there temps. I would watch them but i would not freak out just yet. when a frog is sick and dying you will know it because they will not eat and they will be boated or extremely thin and they will be sluggish and inactive. mine are attempting to mate so i know that they are in good health. i will send pics to reassure you if you please. now some frog species yes this could mean a very serous problem. i am no frog doctor but all i am saying is that my healthiest most active fire belly is currently black when its normal color is torquise almost a blue color. i will keep you updated on their status if they start dying I will be sure to post and my very reliable source will be wrong.

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## demon amphibians

So all my fire bellies have returned to their normal bright colors. what i did observe is when they were dark and black colored it was very hot out. but now it is cooling down now at least 15-20 degrees cooler then when  i observed their dark color change. So looks to me like ryan was spot on when he said that temps influence their color.

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## DDskary

I am more of a hobbyist terrarium builder but within the past year or so i decided to start putting live animals in them. I have been using non-toxic and safe food coloring to apply fake blue tones to the water. I've noticed after cleaning my tank (once per month about) and adding the coloring that by the next day one frog remains normal color, the other becomes dark or black, AND the shade of the water is considerably less blue, thus leading me to believe that he is absorbing the food coloring. Not that you would be using food coloring in your setup, but the fact that one or more is changing to a darker color could indicate he is absorbing something from the water/environment, OR that he is simply under stress. after a couple days his color usually returns to normal and i can add more food coloring without any change to his color or the water, indicating to me his stress levels have lowered and he is calmer in his surroundings. If the tank is cleaned and no coloring is added to the water, he still becomes darker, leading me to believe that it is almost entirely stress related, which may be brought on by the fresh, yet de-chlorinated, water being replaced, though it does not seem to happen when only adding water to the existing water.

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## Eli

From what I know, it's not uncommon for fbts to have some color differences.  In my tank of four about three of them are really bright, but one is definitely darker(not black like others have mentioned), but his belly is very bright and he's one active dude; he will lunge from across the tank when I get out the feeding tongs.  While I am far from an expert, I think that behavior, eating, and belly color might be more important.  My little girl that had an impaction was very bright green, but her belly was faded and she was super lethargic/would not eat.  Sadly, she passed, but IME those things are more concerning than just her back color.  From what I've heard ftbs can even come in a brown shade, so who knows?

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## japa

Colour change (turnig dark)is normal for FBTs. It is about nervous and hormonal basis. 
This is a complex process which plays a role Intermedin hormone concentration in the blood. Most bellied darken only a couple of days, about a week or 14 days, so you do not have any concerns.

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## Froggie85

Since my FBT turned black he became a little fat hes not bloated though like a pink pong ball , but ever since he has like these spasm problems and goes around in circles on land and a lot in the water . I have no idea what is wrong with him though or how the previous owner took care of him . He is still active and eats though and seems better if hes hiding behind the plants and just sits there but if he comes out in the open he is all messed up . Have no clue whats going on he gets dusted crickets three times a week medium sized with repashy clacium plus supplement . In a 20 gallon tall tank with a 25 watt UVB light and water temp at 74 F 23 C .

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## alane

A few of mine seem to change at will.  Yesterday, two of my males were almost black.  Then, during the shed, they went green, almost immediately.  Today I have six green frogs, not four green and two black.

I'm learning that "the dark one" is not a way to identify them.  I need to memorize spots.

Good lord I hope their little warts don't change over time.

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## Froggie85

Mine has been dark for months I have seen it shed once and it never changed back to green

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## privet01

I think some tend to stay darker.  The FBT I've had for over six years tends to stay light and bright though his bright green does darken slightly at times.  Another FBT I got about 4 years ago was so dark you could barely make out the typical pattern you expect on FBT's backs.  At one time he almost lightened up to the same color as the others, but his color changes the most.  Sometimes very dark and sometimes light and bright.

So I wouldn't attribute any thing about their health based on color.  I've sometimes thought that water alkalinity and lighting played a roll in when mine changed colors, but I think that was just anecdotal.

If they eat and look otherwise healthy, don't worry.  The color changes of the individual FBT's may have more to do with their parentage or early environmental factors. 

@Froggie85.... As for your FBT that has the "spasms"  If it's not that he is shedding and trying to shake the skin loose, then I've no idea.

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## Froggie85

Ya I have no clue either he still is active and eats but does the strangest thing and he actually has mean behavior towards one of my toads he will bark and bark at it and then swim over or jump on it and hold him in the water . and no they are not mating he just seems to be mean , there is def food competition with him and its tough cause he wont eat unless hes in the terrarium they all are like that soooo I have been trying to come up with ideas and I just don't have the right one I don't want to handle them every feeding plus they don't eat hand fed or when taken out so Mr spasm eats and eats one of my other ones eat one is all and my other toad that's as big as my pinky seems like hes getting smaller and I've only seen him eat a few times in the month ive had them other then that he hides in the dark under a rock all day long . It is def complicated to me to try and do whats best for them and nothing still changes. I was hoping with raising my water temp up they would be more active and its been about a week since I rose the temps up and they  still are not active at all I never see them hoping around just kinda peeking out and going back in there hiding places but that's it .

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## privet01

> .......... and he actually has mean behavior towards one of my toads he will bark and bark at it and then swim over or jump on it and hold him in the water . and no they are not mating he just seems to be mean .......


Though many of the care sheets don't mention it most of us here with two or more FBT's can tell you that they seem to have a social pecking order.  One of the males will dominate the other males and females.  And this does include jumping on the backs of others and holding them tightly in an embrace similar to mating at which time you might hear the submissive toad let out a sort of warbling noise.  I take that as it saying "Uncle".  

At times this does include holding the other underwater for lengthy periods of time.  Sometimes it seems to be very violent, but they are not going to do any damage to each other.  And FBT's can handle an extended period under water with no harm.  They are amphibians and they can absorb oxygen from the water through their skin.  Or so I've read.

If you browse the forum you'll see many a newb asking about this behavior.  It's just something you have to get used to.  

As for them hiding all day.  Many do.  My dominate male is the only one that stays out and about most of the "day".  The others spend more time hiding.  Though some do come out for a little.  Many times just to have the dominate one jump on them.

As for lack of activity...................  well they don't do a lot.  They tend to just lounge around thinking about their next meal.  It's not like they hunt all day or have stuff to do.

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## Froggie85

Yours sounds like mine my dominate one will be out 90 percent of the day . one of my others ones will venture out and bark and then the dominate one and him will wrestle and then they go about there own but for my other one he hides all day and is only out at night I think mostly cause when I get up in the morning to turn there UVB light on they are all out but once I do that my little guy will go hide in the same spot all day long , my worry with that is him and maybe sometimes my other one that likes to argue with my dominate one not being able to eat cause they or at least the little one most times dont come out when its feeding time I watch to see if he eats but its really hard to tell when hes stuck in a corner under a rock where its dark and I can't see well my other issue with that is the little one hiding is him not getting the UVB he needs ..

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## privet01

I don't worry about them eating.  They'll get it when they need it.  Even my dominate male hasn't been seen grabbing a cricket for the last two or three feedings, which is over eight days.  But I know he will when he wants one.

As far as them hiding and not getting any UVb.   They probably are getting out, just not when you are looking.  I assume that your viv is new as are your FBT's.  So likely they are all a little skittish and just need time to get used to the new surroundings and new social order.

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Froggie85, jasonm96

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## Froggie85

I have had them for 4 to 6 weeks .. I had them in a 15 gallon I use to have fish in then I felt better to buy a new tank so I bought a new 10 gallon and changed that one around at least three times to suit them and myself then I decided to get a 20 gallon tall and change it completely with a lot of new things and have changed that one twice but the second time I changed that one I kept everything in it the same I didnt move anything around I mistakenly thought when you cleaned it once a week that meant emptying the whole thing out and cleaning it completely.. The only activness I see is the barking I cant see them but I can hear them the only one I see is my retarded from and sometimes one of my smaller ones but thats the most active I get out of them is the barking and thats cause the other fire bellies get close and they bark like get out of here this is my spot type a thing !

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## alane

Tonight, all six of mine are fairly dark.  So many changes to the tank recently, who can tell why.

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## Froggie85

Jason would be best to tell you . I am still learning . I have one that is 4 years old that was given to me and I bought two more but only have had all three for about 6 weeks. When I received the 4 year old fire belly he was dark with a lime green splotch on his head he has shed twice since I have had him and he has never went back to the normal lime bright green ever ... I noticed with my other two if they sit in the water a really long time they darken up a bit ,but always seem to go back to the the lime green I only have one that has stayed really bright from the others thats how I tell them apart lol ..

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## alane

The water quality in my tank is improving as the bio filter kicks in.  Today is a 25% water change day, yesterday I set my water pump return into 'rain mode', so it's been 'raining all night' for them.

This morning, all of my frogs are on the bright green side, some very bright.  None dark.

Like a 'mood ring', these are mood frogs.

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## Firebellyman

> OK, Sherry has pretty much covered all possible problem areas; just want to go over couple things. 
> 
> 5.  The days of aerating water for 24-48 hours to vent out chlorine went away when more stable chloramines were introduced.  Also, as stated, there are heavy metals in water too.  Need to get water conditioner and start using it now. 
> 
> 8.  Are you gut loading crickets for couple days before feeding them to frogs?  I use Repashy's Bug Burger for that.
> 
> 9.  CA X2, multivitamins X1 every week.  Do not use on same day and alternate with plain feeding between.  Again, I use the Repashy stuff.
> 
> 18.  Try to get some night crawlers or red worms (smaller) into that diet.  Can use ones from bait shops, Walmart, etc. as long as they are free of additives like dyes.  Remember to cut worm into smaller pieces.  If one worm is too much for your 2 frogs can cut rear half (pointy end) and feed that first.  Worm will heal; so just feed the other half next time. 
> ...


lucky you I have never had them eat worms as much as I have offered picky little stinkers

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