# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > Breeding, Eggs, Tadpoles, etc >  Ranitomeya ventrimaculata - Breeding Thread

## Paul

Hey all who take the time to stop by! My name is Paul and I have a pair of R. Vents. They have made 2 previous attempts at mating, but with sad results. The first single Egg they deposited did not make it. Next they deposited 4 eggs and one started to develop into a tadpole before it failed all others failed in the egg stage as well. We have a fresh clutch of eggs as of today 10-14-14 and thought I would start a thread to document their progress. 3rd times the charm right?


This clutch was deposited in a small collection of water in the corner of a film canister. In 5 - 7 days we should start to see tadpoles forming and will know which ones are fertile and which ones aren't.

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## Strider18

Very nice Paul! Keep us updated on these babies!

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## Lynn

Wow !
They look great!
Egg #1 one looks to be furthest along.
My 2 cents-----they all look fertilized to me  :Wink: 

Good luck , Paul
Soooo, what will you do with 8 vent froglets  :Big Grin:

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## Paul

> Wow !
> They look great!
> Egg #1 one looks to be furthest along.
> My 2 cents-----they all look fertilized to me 
> 
> Good luck , Paul
> Soooo, what will you do with 8 vent froglets



Thanks for the well wishes everyone! 

Hopefully I can find them new homes through sale or trade. I will setup temp homes for them in the mean time, but I have a bit of time before I need to cross that bridge. I just hope some of the eggs make it to the tadpole stage this time. Was very sad with the last clutch and watching the forming egg fail  :Frown:

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## Strider18

I am sure you will find a nice home for them and I wish you the best of luck with this new clutch!

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## Amy

Yay!!  Good luck!

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## Josh

Awesome for you Paul! Sorry about the first two clutches, but I'm sure this one will work out  :Smile:

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## Paul

The male has spent a fair amount of time in the canister. I caught it empty yesterday and snapped a quick picture. I am using a flash to get these so I am going to limit the pictures I take until they either make it to tadpole stage and get moved or fail, but here is the Picture from 10-16-2014

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## Strider18

Keep it up Paul! I am really hoping that you get it to work out and get lots of pretty froglets  :Smile:

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## Paul

Well 7 of the 8 eggs have failed and the 8th one doesn't look good. The research I did pointed to the Vents commonly laying the eggs in water. I have let the last 3 clutches stay in the water they were played in and have had nothing but failure. Lynn has been giving me great advice through this and until we read that had discussed keeping the eggs out of standing water, but decided to leave them be if that is where they were being deposited. Well this last clutch was the final test of the submerged egg method. I have emptied all the film canister of water and am taking great care to not get any excess water in them. I will do my best to keep the next clutch moist but not swimming and hopefully will break through this invisible wall that is killing the eggs. 

2 weeks or so and we should be able to star this all over from the beginning. 


Paul

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## Amy

I'm sorry Paul, that is very frustrating!   Let us know how things go next time!

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## Strider18

Sorry about that Paul  :Frown:  I know how frustrating it can be trying to hatch and keep any baby creature alive. Best of luck with the next clutch.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2

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## bubbles88

Good luck with the next batch!
These are my R. Ventrimaculata Black Waters first clutch and i seem to have good luck, 4 out of 4 have developed! They are still in their jelly, i'm going to keep a close eye on them.

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## Paul

My Vents seem to be slow learners lol. They were in a cup about to deposit some eggs, but stupid me didn't see them in there in time and opened the tank to mist. They decided I was rude and stopped all that mess for the day it seemed. Hoping to get a clutch tomorrow. I have changed a few things with their canisters for this next clutch so hopefully They (and I) have better luck. 

Where did yours deposit their eggs? Lots of conflicting information out there. This time I angled all the canisters at a 45 degrees and one of them is sitting horizontal. They were in the horizontal one this morning.

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## bubbles88

They were deposited into the film canister in the top left, exactly how it is sitting in the picture. I am also finding lots of conflicting info, especially on tadpole care (which i am doing a lot of research on at the moment) I have also read that breeding the Black Waters has been proven difficult and unsuccessful from what i have read on some online forums, i guess i got lucky. 

I'm going to check the cannister in a few days to see if they deposit anymore, i wouldnt be surprised if there is some in the broms.

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## Paul

Mine lay a new clutch nearly every 2 weeks (give or take a day). Several sites said to setup the canisters with distilled water. I had failures 3 clutches in a row with that method. The canisters are now in 4 spots around the tank and I am letting some water from the misting to collect in the bottom. One of the canisters is setup laying nearly horizontal. That one is the one the male has been spending a lot of time these last few days in and around. I wont be surprised to find eggs in there in the next day or 2. Hoping that I have better luck.

Your not quite tadpoles look great! Keep me in the loop on how they progress  :Smile:

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## Paul

Still waiting on the next clutch. I was a jerk and opened the tank to mist and caught them in the act. They quickly stopped and have taken a break. The last few days the male has been calling like crazy so I have kept my distance so I don't spoil the mood again.... Stupid human

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## Strider18

Haha I would have stopped to :P Keep us updated  :Smile: 

0.1.0 Psuedacris regilla

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## bubbles88

The hardest part is keeping some distance when you are so intrigued and excited for some eggs/tads! 

Earlier in the week we had a nasty cold spell and drop in temperature, which may be the reason why 3 of my tads didn't make it.. The only one that made it was the one that first popped out of the egg. His/her eyes are noticeable now, and is about 4 times the size as the previous pictured tads.

I heard them calling for the first time ever this morning when i went in to feed them, they were going crazy, so hopefully i have another clutch within the next few days.

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## Paul

Still haven't seen a new clutch. It has gotten cold here. The frog room may have dropped a degree overall, but I am starting to think that slight dip has stopped them for the season. I might pump the heat up a bit and see if I can't keep them going year round. Still lots and lots of calling so we will see.

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## Amy

Maybe a space heater in the room?

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## Paul

I have 1 space heater running. Temps in the tanks are still up in the mid 70's, but something has calmed all the frogs down. I have stepped up misting because the heater is zapping the humidity from the room. 

It is also possible that I am impatient lol. It has been 3 weeks since the last clutch so maybe patience is needed lol.

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## Amy

Yeah, the dry air outside and the heat running constantly inside does a number on the humidity...I have gone from misting maybe once a day to misting 3 times a day.  I am going to get my humidifier running in the room with the red eyes too hoping the ambient humidity will help maintain theirs a little better, less spikes and drops then.

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## Paul

Still no luck with eggs. They have started laying eggs like crazy again. I have one clutch I pulled from the tank to try and care for on my own and this caused the frogs to lay another clutch 5 days later. So right now I have 4 eggs that I pulled and 7 eggs in the new clutch in the tank.

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## Amy

Hopefully these do something for you!!

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## bubbles88

I still haven't had any clutches since i found this clutch. Try leaving the eggs in the viv and see if they develop.

My lone survivor is starting to show some pattern/colors, also looks like the rear limbs are about to pop. I'll get some pictures up.

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## Paul

The 4 I pulled failed. The 7 have had another clutch laid right along side them in the tank bringing the number to 11 in the tank. The first 7 show no signs of development at 9 days so odds are they are not good either. Practice makes perfect though so I hope they keep practicing  :Smile:

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## Strider18

Sorry Paul  :Frown:  One of my coaches always told he this, perfect practice makes perfect  :Smile: 

0.0.1 PCf
Soon to come 0.0.4 Phyllobates bicolor  :Big Grin:

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## Amy

Ahhh how frustrating.  Sorry!!  Will keep pulling for you to get some little babies!

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## derezzed

Actually... the concept that it "sometimes takes a while to get it right" doesn't really hold much water anymore. I'd be willing to bet your problem is with supplementation. Ventrimaculata/Amazonica are notorious for throwing bad eggs when they don't have proper supplementation. 

What is your current supplementation routine? Are you providing them with a source of preformed Vitamin A like Repashy Vitamin A+?

If not, you should be rotating Vit A in with your feedings 1-2x per month. (not more frequently, as you can overdose them with it)

When I was breeding amazonica years ago... they stopped laying bad eggs and I stopped getting froglets with SLS as soon as I started the parents on a supplement rotation with Vitamin A.

Hope that helps... and good luck!

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## Strider18

Knowing Paul and all of the mods, it is almost guaranteed that he had his supplementation down  :Smile:  If i'm wrong Paul, feel free to correct me  :Smile: 

0.0.1 PCf
Soon to come 0.0.4 Phyllobates bicolor  :Big Grin:

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## Paul

For the sake of having a complete thread here is my supplementation rotation

Monday - Calcium w/D3 (RepCal)
Tuesday - Supervite (Repashy)
Wednesday - Calcium w/D3 (RepCal)
Thursday - Supervite (Repashy)
Friday - Calcium Plus (Rapashy)
Saturday - Supervite (Repashy)
Sunday - Calcium w/D3 (RepCal)

I also do Repashy Vitamin A every 1st and 15th. Though in fairness that (the Vit A) has not been for more than the last couple months. 

I personally feel like the struggle has been part the frogs figuring things out and part learning curve on my part. These are the first frogs I have had lay eggs for me. I have also read that Vents breed better in groups, but sadly I only have 2 (I had 2 escape from a new tank due to a design flaw... very sad). 

I have been tweaking the sites for the eggs a little after each clutch and think I have it dialed in now. Most of the failures I have been able to associate with either not enough water or 1 or 2 bad eggs ruining the rest after they begin to mold.

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## Paul

Quick update on eggs. I decided to not post pictures of the failures because... well we have enough of those in this thread already lol.

The 11 in the tank started to fail. I was able to salvage 2 eggs from the canister before the mold got to them. Here are a few pictures of them.


Egg 1



Egg 2



Egg 1



Egg 2




Also had a new clutch deposited today. 


Deposited on 12/15/14

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## Amy

Yayyyyyyyy!!!!  Congrats!!!  Can't wait to watch them turn into little froglets!  Please keep posting pics of their development, those are some of my faves.

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## derezzed

I hope I didn't come across as though I was questioning someone's abilities as I was just trying to help.

Anyway... its good to see you at least have a couple good eggs going for you. Hopefully they'll stay strong.




> I also do Repashy Vitamin A every 1st and 15th. Though in fairness that (the Vit A) has not been for more than the last couple months.


This could be the problem. While supervite and calcium plus both have preformed Vit A it is not really enough to provide breeders with their needs in the long term.  Generally if Vitamin A has been lacking for a little while it is recommended to step up the frequency for a short period of time. This is because Vitamin A is fat-soluble and the frog will actually store it in their tissues. If the frogs were never really able to get their stores up in the first place, the addition of a regular schedule of vitamin A may not do much since they are actively laying and basically already depleting the new addition. I would recommend dusting once a week for 3-4 weeks to help establish a larger store of Vitamin A in the frogs' tissue.




> I personally feel like the struggle has been part the frogs figuring things out and part learning curve on my part. These are the first frogs I have had lay eggs for me. I have also read that Vents breed better in groups, but sadly I only have 2 (I had 2 escape from a new tank due to a design flaw... very sad).


This likely isn't the issue. When people say vents breed better in groups they are generally just referring to the frequency of mating/eggs. Introducing a bit more competition will get them going much more often than just keeping a pair, it won't affect the viability of their eggs when they do actually lay




> I have been tweaking the sites for the eggs a little after each clutch and think I have it dialed in now. Most of the failures I have been able to associate with either not enough water or 1 or 2 bad eggs ruining the rest after they begin to mold.


Laying sites shouldn't affect viability of the eggs either. I have had successful eggs in all sorts of conditions (wet/dry/hot/cool) and in all sorts of places (leaf litter, on the glass, on a stick, in film canisters, in bromeliads, on broad leaves, you name it). If the humidity is proper in the tank, they shouldn't really need to be in any water. Also, bad eggs molding shouldn't affect good eggs. You are likely just seeing issues with all of the eggs and it's just that some are showing signs of it sooner than others.

Hope that helps...

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## Lynn

Nice post ....Welcome ' back' to Frog Forum

Don't worry about it.

We, (   :Adoration:   ) can take it .........

Paul has lots of great ideas ... they'll breed 

~~ I believe the Vit A will finally begin to work

~~~ adding additional vents with the pair to create a group would be fun

~~~~I agree regarding the egg deposit sites they choose. In fact, I think they are better off w/ a variety of water levels in the canisters. They'll take care of the eggs.

~~~~~ And , I agree regarding the mold. I don't always get 100% egg development from my variabilis. Imitators, yes ; but the varis. I never remove the bad eggs. The developing tads 'free swim' right around them.

There WILL be vents tads!  :Couple Inlove:

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## Paul

I only hypothesize the bad eggs were affecting the good eggs because I have lost a couple of developing eggs in previous clutches. The developing eggs would start to show the tadpole forming and then the egg would mold over like the others. 

I do not feel comfortable stepping up the Vit A that I am introducing into the tanks. With the small amounts provided with the Supervite and Cal plus I am hoping there is enough going around to keep them going strong. I do not want to even get close to ODing the frogs with Vit A. 

I agree with a variety of sites as well. I have 5 canisters in the tank at various heights and angles. I am being careful to not get to much misting water in them and am flushing them with fresh distilled water once every 2 days (this probably isn't needed, but doing it for now). The canisters vary in water depth, the vents are favoring the canisters with more water in them. This last clutch was laid with the vents down in the water up to their noses. They have a brom in the tank that they sleep in, but they have not deposited any eggs in it yet.



I am also fairly certain I am over thinking all of this at this point, but it is in my nature to obsess to an unhealthy level on the details and research constantly. I appreciate any and all input  :Smile: 

Paul

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## Paul

One of the Tads started wiggling around tonight. Managed to get a couple of real short videos. The other developing eggs doesn't look so good right now. Still holding out some hope. 


https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v...ages_video_set

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v...ages_video_set

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## Paul

I struggled with humidity in the frog room for a week or so. The temperature outside bottomed out and the space heater was killing me. I would make sure the eggs had water on them at 2:00am and by the time I woke up at 8am the water around the eggs would be nearly dried up. (it was totally gone a couple times). This fight with humidity cost me 9 eggs over the course of a couple weeks. 

The last clutch they laid was with 5 eggs. I left the eggs in the canister for 7-10 days (or until the early signs of development started). I then moved them to a petri dish that I placed on the floor of the vivarium to use the high humidity in the tank to my advantage. 

Here is what they look like as of this afternoon. 




I have the tadpole station for these eggs all setup and ready to go!

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## derezzed

> I struggled with humidity in the frog room for a week or so. The temperature outside bottomed out and the space heater was killing me. I would make sure the eggs had water on them at 2:00am and by the time I woke up at 8am the water around the eggs would be nearly dried up. (it was totally gone a couple times). This fight with humidity cost me 9 eggs over the course of a couple weeks.


Simple solution to this is to place the eggs in a shoebox or something and mist the shoebox. Before my current setup, I used to just set my eggs on top of tadpole containers in their bin, plenty of humidity.




> The last clutch they laid was with 5 eggs. I left the eggs in the canister for 7-10 days (or until the early signs of development started). I then moved them to a petri dish that I placed on the floor of the vivarium to use the high humidity in the tank to my advantage. 
> 
> Here is what they look like as of this afternoon. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have the tadpole station for these eggs all setup and ready to go!


Looking good so far, however I still think you should reconsider giving them a boost of vitamin A. Ventrimaculata are notorious for having SLS issues. I would hate to see you clear one hurdle just to be presented with another.

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## Paul

Derezzed thank you for the reply. I have a shoe box bin setup for them now with a lid. The previous bin I used didnt have a lid so I moved this most recent clutch into the Viv while I waited to replace the bin. I am going to let this clutch finish in the tank and then see how ti goes from there with the next clutch in the new bin.

I hear you on the Vit A and have no way honestly to quantify the amount of Vit A that the Vents actually consume monthly. Mostly because it is really dependent on how much of the powder the flies clean off them before the vents eat them. Between the 2 doses of Vit A a month and the Calcium Plus (which has Vit A in it as well ((even though it is a small amount)) ) will have to be good enough until I am presented with a solid reason for upping the dosage. I really can't up it just because I am concerned something May or may not happen. I will keep that in mind though if froglets have SLS.

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## Paul

Caught the vents on camera laying a clutch.

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## Lynn

This is terrific , Paul !!!!!
 :Butterfly:

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## Vivariums In The Mist

Awesome vid!

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## Paul

Thanks! 

Wish it was a better angle, but I rushed it. I saw them in there and just placed the camera on the top glass and went to work. Had to dig through 5 hours of video to pull that 14 mins out. Was some cool footage of the female standing over the clutch and moving it around with her feet like she was trying to put the eggs just how she wanted them. Then she left to eat and the male came back and did the same thing. Unfortunately to include all that the video would have been over an hour long. 

Also for future reference. Would y'all prefer some music imbedded in the video or is silence ok. I stripped the audio out cause who wants to listen to a space heater running for 14 mins.

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## derezzed

So, any tadpoles yet?

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## Paul

I suppose I am overdue for posting an update lol.

The clutch in the below pictures is the one featured in the video i posted earlier. 

Deposited 1/15/15. Picture taken 1/16/15


Deposited 1/15/15. Picture taken 1/18/15


Deposited 1/15/15. Picture taken 1/19/15


Deposited 1/15/15. Picture taken 1/22/15



Hoping to see tadpoles in the next couple days.

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## Paul

I have my first free swimming tadpole ever  :Smile:

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## Strider18

Yay! Looks great Paul! Keep us updated  :Smile: 

0.0.1 PCf
Soon to come 0.0.4 Phyllobates bicolor  :Big Grin:

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## Vivariums In The Mist

Congrats!

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## Paul

Thanks!!

Looks like maybe a 2nd tad is trying to come out and see me. 4 total tads in this clutch. 1 out 3 still growing and 10 eggs behind working on creating life lol.

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## Paul

All 4 tads have hatched out and are now in the tadpole containers. If this keeps up I will quickly be overrun with Vent tadpoles. They are laying an average of 5 eggs every 5 days.

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## Paul

Going to let this thread end with this.

I think I finally FINALLY have things dialed in for the eggs. Tadpoles in cups and eggs developing with little to no failures. The vents have moved to depositing clutches every 3 days and are totally insane!

The steps that have shown consistent success for me is as follow. 

1. Pull eggs at 48 hours
2. Place canister in petri dish
3. Add tadpole tea to petri dish (enough to get water into canister and around eggs)
4. Place petri dish in plastic shoe box container
     4a. Shoe box has paper towels on the bottom and enough distilled water to cover the paper towel. 
5. Heat shoe box to high 70's constantly
6. Wait for tadpoles to hatch


For whatever reason the distilled water on it's own was adding to my failure rate, or it seems like it was based on my experience. 

Thanks for reading along!

Paul

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## Paul

Small update - Currently have 18 tadpoles out and growing and 13 eggs working on more tads.

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