# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > Beginner Discussion >  Good Supply List?

## JoblessDendrobates

Hey frog-lovers  :Frog Smile: 

For about the last 3 to 4 months i have been doing some very spaced out research on getting some dart frogs as I know a local breeder of some awesome D. Tinctorius 'Matecho' and I'd really like to try my hand at a naturalistic vivarium for these little guys, now i have had some experience with frogs as i also keep the Dumpy tree frogs and the Grey tree frog however i don't have any experience yet with terrestrial frog species like many of the PDF and so I wrote out a list of some supplies as i want to have a living vivarium established about 2-4 months before i even get any PDF just in case the whole ecosystem isn't really working out and I'd like your guy's opinion on  what i have listed and some constructive criticism would be very appreciated!

Now the list has some basic supplies that I could get from various place's with the main ones being Amazon.com, my local Lowes and HD, and Josh's Frogs (Does any one have good experience with ordering frogs and plants from them?). So here it goes:

- Seachem Prime (The water conditioner)
- ABG mix
- Temperate Springtail Colombella culture
- Melanogaster or Hydei fruit fly kit?
- Lava Rocks (can that be used as a Hydroton alternative?)
- Terrarium substrate barrier
Now for the lighting would a simple house fluorescent bulb work?
And for the plants i was thinking of:
- Those Bromeliads at Lowes/HD 
- A small Dracaena 
- Weeping Ficus
- Spider plant
OR I was thinking of ordering some plants like...
- Neoregalias
- Humata tyermanii
- Wandering jew
- Philodendron
And maybe a Pothos?
Now I plan on housing 2-3 D. Tinctorius 'Matecho' OR if i can find a reliable online source of some P. Terribilis that would be awesome, now I have heard that P. Terribilis aren't recommended as a starter PDF by some people but my room is ALWAYS at a constant 72 degrees and gets no hotter then 77 during the day and at night stays around 65-68 degrees so would those temperatures be okay? And I am getting a free 40 gallon long tank from a family friend so would 2-3 Matecho's or P. Terribilis do okay in that size?

Thanks for all the hassle guys!

Abraham.

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## Carlos

Hello and welcome to FF Abraham!  Recommend take a look at this thread that will help you get set-up:  http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...aludarium.html.  Your light needs to concentrate on 6,500K in order to best grow plants.  In regards of using store pants; see post no. 4 by Lynn in here: http://www.frogforum.net/plants-plan...vivariums.html.  Will let those experienced with Darts answer the remaining questions.  Good luck  :Smile:  !

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## Lynn

I'll will make some comments to consider - mostly 'personal experience' 
-others - will certainly have valuable options  :Smile:  and suggestions 

1st --- great list !  Sounds like you have a great start.


 Seachem Prime (The water conditioner) I use ExoTerra Aquatize 
- ABG mix Joshs' is great ! you will want to break of the sphagnum a bit
- Temperate Springtail Colombella culture- you might be better off getting these  at a show ---way ahead of the frogs.Don't forget to get isiopods  as well ! Start cultures for yourself. I feed the springs bakers yeast and the isopods green or yellow zucchini squash. You will spend much less $$ at a show; avoiding the expidited shipping costs. The darn things all look the same to me  :Big Grin:  
- Melanogaster or Hydei fruit fly kit? You need both --- you will want to have 'ready to use ' feeders at the time you get your frogs. Many breeders will send a culture w/ the frogs Terribilis, especially, will need the larger hydei species. 
- Lava Rocks (can that be used as a Hydroton alternative?) I use medium pea gravel from a big box pet joint 
- Terrarium substrate barrier I use fiberglass screening ( home depot or lowes)  and 3/4"  polyester quilting batting (fabric store) 
I personally do not like the fabric barrier ---I think it drains too slowly
Now for the lighting would a simple house fluorescent bulb work? NO, I use 13 watt led in the summer and 75 watt  regular base Philips plants bulbs in the winter ( I need a little extra heat) 
Jungle Dawn® 13W LED---- On Sale for FALL! I know $$$$$ !
And for the plants i was thinking of:
- Those Bromeliads at Lowes/HD 
- A small Dracaena 
- Weeping Ficus
- Spider plant

My favorite source : Plants

OR I was thinking of ordering some plants like...
- Neoregalias
- Humata tyermanii
- Wandering jew
- Philodendron
And maybe a Pothos?
Now I plan on housing 2-3 D. Tinctorius 'Matecho' OR if i can find a reliable online source of some P. Terribilis that would be awesome, now I have heard that P. Terribilis aren't recommended as a starter PDF by some people but my room is ALWAYS at a constant 72 degrees and gets no hotter then 77 during the day and at night stays around 65-68 degrees so would those temperatures be okay? And I am getting a free 40 gallon long tank from a family friend so would 2-3 Matecho's or P. Terribilis do okay in that size?


Either are wonderful frogs ---they're not difficult
You might look into an Exoterra  18x18x24H  Remember the substrate takes up a lot of height space.

My P terribilis 'Mint' climb - in fact ....all of the time ! ( I have one pr in exo 18x24x24H ) this frog needs space
( however - I could put 2 more in here )
My D tincs 'new river' - do not climb ( I have a trio in exo 18x18x24H) 

I drill all my tanks - I highly recommend it. No risk of yuckie substrate or siphoning

Don't forget to 'bleach' disinfect any used enclosure . 
And don't forget to *always, always , always*  quarantine any incoming frogs !
The biggest mistake one could  *ever* make !

Keep us posted

BTW Abraham,  Welcome to Frog Forum 
And it is NOT a hassle
If you have any other questions -chime in  :Wink: 

Lynn

ps  sorry if there are any typos -- spell check seems to be .......... _cranky_ !

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Heatheranne

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## bill

Welcome to the forum Abraham ! Lynn and Carlos have you pretty well covered, but I had some thoughts. 

Seachem's prime, awesome. I use nothing but of course, dechlorinators are of personal experience/opinions. 

Your plant list looks ok with the exception of "those broms at lowe's" and the spider plant. Depending on their location in a Viv, they are not high humidity loving plants. The neos would handle the humidity much gooder. 

Josh's has some nice stuff, but have never been impressed with their plant selection. They don't have much more than I can buy locally at a garden center with a terrarium section. When ordering plants online, I normally go with black jungle. They even have a section on their website of plants suitable for dart frog environments.

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## JoblessDendrobates

> I'll will make some comments to consider - mostly 'personal experience' 
> -others - will certainly have valuable options  and suggestions 
> 
> 1st --- great list !  Sounds like you have a great start.
> 
> 
>  Seachem Prime (The water conditioner) I use ExoTerra Aquatize 
> - ABG mix Joshs' is great ! you will want to break of the sphagnum a bit
> - Temperate Springtail Colombella culture- you might be better off getting these  at a show ---way ahead of the frogs.Don't forget to get isiopods  as well ! Start cultures for yourself. I feed the springs bakers yeast and the isopods green or yellow zucchini squash. You will spend much less $$ at a show; avoiding the expidited shipping costs. The darn things all look the same to me  
> ...


Thanks so much Lynn! I was hesitant to order from black jungle but I'll be taking your word for them :P
Now you mentioned drilling a hole into the terrarium, where exactly would I drill the hole? With what kind of tool since it's glass? And won't that just lead to the gravel falling out of the tank? 
Thanks for any clarifications  :Smile: 


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## Heather

Welcome, Abraham  :Smile: .

Black jungle has very nice plants. I've ordered some there also. www.blackjungle.com

I also like New England Herp and have ordered from them as well. 
http://www.neherpetoculture.com/plants

I love going to my local greenhouse. Now that I visit there frequently they even let me pick through their mini starter plants... great for dart frog tanks.

Your local glass company can drill a small hole in the bottom of your tank for you. Lynn and I both silicone in drainage spouts. My buddy Bruce has a bottom hole with stopper cork. 




It is "glued" in with clear 100% silicone. 

Lynn? Can you post a photo also?

Both Lynn and my tubes can be connected to drainage tubes. This will be under the false bottom.

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## Lynn

Thanks Heath,

see post  #2

http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...all-drain.html

I had a better pic than this ---I can't find it ----_I hate that_........I'll keep looking

You will need to fill _ie the gravel layer_ to just above the hole

I silicone  a pc  fiberglass screening ( inside) over the drain hole so stuff does not get caught.

Warning: be sure the tank is not safety glass !  :Frog Surprise: 

I have had them drilled by a glass guy. 
Heatheranne is much braver than I.

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## Lynn

a few more pics

 

this is a photo of the connection ( home depot) I don't know what it's called --but when the tubing is inserted  locks/and held in place automatically

 then got covered with the fiberglass screen to prevent it from becoming blocked w/ 'stuff'



my tanks are in my basement --- so I leave them to drain constantly/automatically 

 

outside of thank



removing the screen from the exo-terra tank  top---for PDFs
replace w/ glass ( silicone) 
I actually use aquarium sealant ( marineland brand)

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## JoblessDendrobates

Thank you so much for the visuals I really needed it! Do any of you guys know if the newer Exo Terra's use tempered glass or not? I may buy a 18x18x24 


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## Heather

They are not tempered. I called Exo terra before having it drilled to be sure.

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## Heather

Nah...I had mine drilled by a glass guy too  :Wink: .

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## Lynn

> They are not tempered. I called Exo terra before having it drilled to be sure.


No No ....the exos are not tempered

(Don't know about the VERY bottom, actually ) 

I was talking about the tank Abraham is getting from his friend

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## JoblessDendrobates

Is there a way to tell the difference? If not I can use the other tank for something else like leopard geckos 


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## frogfreaks

You don't have to drill it and use a bulkhead. I have 50 tanks and none are drilled. I siphon the water out if needed. Most times, I have to add water unless I'm soaking them in the spring, trying to get them going.

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## Lynn

> Is there a way to tell the difference? If not I can use the other tank for something else like leopard geckos 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not sure how you can tell the difference ?
Any labels or identifying #s ?
Company name?

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## JoblessDendrobates

Sadly none :/
I think I may just siphon the water out or go and buy an exo terra, hopefully there's a sale since it's almost thanksgiving or maybe Josh's frogs will have a sale? Preferably free shipping  :Big Grin: 


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## bill

If it is a 40L, the bottom pane is most likely tempered since it's 4 feet long. They normally temper tanks from 36" on up (base length)

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## JoblessDendrobates

Thanks for all the info! So what would be more ideal for 2-3 P. Terebilis the 40 long or exo terra 18x18x24?


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## frogfreaks

I love front opening tanks!!

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## Lynn

> Thanks for all the info! So what would be more ideal for 2-3 P. Terebilis the 40 long or exo terra 18x18x24?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm voting for an exo 18x18x24  :Smile: 

or ....even better  an 18x24x24 ...   but $$ substantial jump in $$$

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## Heather

So worth the price though  :Smile: . From opening tanks make chores so much easier. Now, if only they'd make a nice 55 gallon from opening tank  :Wink: .

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## JoblessDendrobates

Thanks guys! Definitely going with the Exo Terra plus I now have an extra 40 gallon for whatever :P


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