# Frogs & Toads > Aquatic Clawed Frogs >  African Clawed Frogs

## Deku

Hey guys I haven't been on here for a while. I been going through soo many life style changes. I now only keep one aquarium(apartment rules). I can keep up to a 75gallon tank. 

 I was wondering how many of these frogs could I keep in there? I already had one from my previous collection(I had more but after I found out my old lid wasn't as tight as I thought it was--- found the rest all dried when I came back from work).   

Also anyway to make the lid completely escape proof while allowing some air exchange? I used to use those metal lids... But they sorta rusted easily(no duh lol) and I had to change to glass. But that's where a few escaped.

Any tips suggestions?

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## Michael

> Hey guys I haven't been on here for a while. I been going through soo many life style changes. I now only keep one aquarium(apartment rules). I can keep up to a 75gallon tank. 
> 
>  I was wondering how many of these frogs could I keep in there? I already had one from my previous collection(I had more but after I found out my old lid wasn't as tight as I thought it was--- found the rest all dried when I came back from work).   
> 
> Also anyway to make the lid completely escape proof while allowing some air exchange? I used to use those metal lids... But they sorta rusted easily(no duh lol) and I had to change to glass. But that's where a few escaped.
> 
> Any tips suggestions?


Depends on your filtration but a 75g should comfortably hold 6-8 frogs.

I use a glass lid personally but I also use a canister filter so cutting holes in the plastic back edge to fit the tubing makes it pretty tight fit and does not allow escapes. You may want to cover the gaps with tape or something like that.

I don't think my tank lid is 'air tight' but when I'm home (and paying attention) I do open the lid up and let it get air so the tank can 'breathe', I think it helps my floating plants. I lower my water level about 3 or 4 inches to also prevent escapes further. I think in a 75 gallon you should easily be able to do that without sacrificing much water volume.

I too have had escapes, I was fortunate enough to find him hiding under my lazyboy.. lol (having hard wood floors helped too I think).

I really recommend a canister filter because intake/outtake tubes don't leave many gaps in your lid, HOB filters tend to leave avenues of escape all over the place..

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## Deku

> Depends on your filtration but a 75g should comfortably hold 6-8 frogs.
> 
> I use a glass lid personally but I also use a canister filter so cutting holes in the plastic back edge to fit the tubing makes it pretty tight fit and does not allow escapes. You may want to cover the gaps with tape or something like that.
> 
> I don't think my tank lid is 'air tight' but when I'm home (and paying attention) I do open the lid up and let it get air so the tank can 'breathe', I think it helps my floating plants. I lower my water level about 3 or 4 inches to also prevent escapes further. I think in a 75 gallon you should easily be able to do that without sacrificing much water volume.
> 
> I too have had escapes, I was fortunate enough to find him hiding under my lazyboy.. lol (having hard wood floors helped too I think).
> 
> I really recommend a canister filter because intake/outtake tubes don't leave many gaps in your lid, HOB filters tend to leave avenues of escape all over the place..


I tried canisters when I had turtles. Things were a pain to clean out. I'm actually going for a sump. Where everything will be cleaner and easier to clean too also increasing water volume. So I could easily keep 6-8 in there?

That sure opens up a lot of ideas. Like I could get:
- Piebalds
-Rectic
-Wild type(online store is the one that has these)
-Reg. lab bred ones.


There's this online store that sells specific feed for them. I'm hoping that will be their staple(currently on reptomin) with red wrigglers once or twice a week. 

I currently feed mine every other day sometimes every two days. I saw on a site saying "feed daily" but I noticed mine got really obese doing this (when I first had one). 

I also know for a fact they like aquatic plants. But can they be fake? A site said they had to be "real". I don't want a huge mess with that. Had em once all it does is get the tank messy in a day or two. Especially since these fellas like to dig and kick things. 



Would it be wise to make small holes in the plastic lid and then use aquarium sealant to put on the lid a sort of plastic mesh(to prevent anything from slipping in or out).

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## Michael

> I tried canisters when I had turtles. Things were a pain to clean out. I'm actually going for a sump. Where everything will be cleaner and easier to clean too also increasing water volume. So I could easily keep 6-8 in there?


I think 6-8 frogs is a good number to keep in that size of aquarium safely. Technically the tank could support a few more but the more frogs you keep together the greater your risk of infections such as red leg increase.

I don't have much experience with fresh water sumps or as they're also called 'refugiums'. I have read about them and they do seem neat, they do increase your water volume but I do not think they really make up for good bio/mech filtration that a canister filter gives you. My Eheim Classic filter is probably one single best product I've ever purchased for my aquarium so I guess we will have to agree to disagree on filtration.  :Smile: 




> That sure opens up a lot of ideas. Like I could get:
> - Piebalds
> -Rectic
> -Wild type(online store is the one that has these)
> -Reg. lab bred ones.


The care for these variations of xenopus are all the same, but yes you could mix it up if you were able to locate a supplier of the more rare types.





> There's this online store that sells specific feed for them.


Xenopus.com? Yes they do sell pellets for these animals, I've never really read a review of this food. I would assume it is of high quality, the site mainly seems to sell xenopus as lab animals, kind of pricey but may very well be worth it if you desire rare pigmented frogs.




> I'm hoping that will be their staple(currently on reptomin) with red wrigglers once or twice a week.


Reptomin is really not considered a high quality pellet food -however- it seems to be a great staple for african clawed frogs. Some may disagree, but I've never heard of an ACF owner who had an issue with reptomin as a staple. It does have high protein but the phosphorus / calcium ratio is a bit poor.. I think supplementing earthworms would make up for this deficiency. May want to skip the red wrigglers and go straight for canadian nightcrawlers. For one red wrigglers are a bit less palatable (though I doubt a xenopus would care.. most frogs do) and there seems to be some talk that red wrigglers may be a bit toxic (at least to garter snakes). I'd play it safe, eventually your frogs become so large they will prefer the larger canadian nightcrawlers anyways, and if you buy from a bait store or walmart, they cost the same anyways. 




> I currently feed mine every other day sometimes every two days. I saw on a site saying "feed daily" but I noticed mine got really obese doing this (when I first had one).


Sub-adults should be fed daily, adults should be fed 3-4 times a week. You're absolutely right, if fed daily they become quite fat. Then again it also depends on how much you feed them, if you fed them a little bit each day, that would be fine. My feeding regimen is one canadian nightcrawler each, every other day, some days I skip the earthworms and feed reptomin, so roughly 3 earthworms and 1 reptomin feeding, per week. Crickets are also given as treats, usually on reptomin days (worms make fat, stuffed frogs).




> I also know for a fact they like aquatic plants.


Yes




> But can they be fake?


Yes, but be wary of plastic plants. They can easily cut the delicate webbing of their feet. Go silk or real plants.




> A site said they had to be "real".


I would argue this site is correct. Real plants help add additional biofiltration, improve water quality, and create a more natural habitat.




> I don't want a huge mess with that. Had em once all it does is get the tank messy in a day or two. Especially since these fellas like to dig and kick things.


Not really. Their plant destroying prowess is a bit overrated. True nightmares to planted tanks would be turtles, goldfish, cichlids, ect...

My ACF tank has jungle vals, bacopa, moss, water sprite, wisteria, duckweed, and frog bit and it all grows just fine they hardly if ever kick up anything.

My best advice here and what is more beneficial for your frogs, get water sprite (indian fern, there are several varieties of this plant). Skip the fake stuff, floating plants such as this are fantastic, grow quickly, keep your nitrates under control and have some superb advantages..

For starters floating plants have one HUGE overlooked benefit, it makes frogs less prone to escaping. They provide a general feeling of security to the frog (froggy thought: predators can't see me! I have these plants hiding me!). They give the frog the ability to bask, watch them at night, they will use water sprite to rest -- with their nose above the water. Think how nice it is for them, an aquatic air breathing animal to have the ability to rest, breathe, relax..




> Would it be wise to make small holes in the plastic lid and then use aquarium sealant to put on the lid a sort of plastic mesh(to prevent anything from slipping in or out).


I don't see why not.

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## Deku

> I think 6-8 frogs is a good number to keep in that size of aquarium safely. Technically the tank could support a few more but the more frogs you keep together the greater your risk of infections such as red leg increase.
> 
> I don't have much experience with fresh water sumps or as they're also called 'refugiums'. I have read about them and they do seem neat, they do increase your water volume but I do not think they really make up for good bio/mech filtration that a canister filter gives you. My Eheim Classic filter is probably one single best product I've ever purchased for my aquarium so I guess we will have to agree to disagree on filtration. 
> 
> 
> 
> The care for these variations of xenopus are all the same, but yes you could mix it up if you were able to locate a supplier of the more rare types.
> 
> 
> ...


I just ordered their food. Currently I have the frog in a separate tank because I'm trying to design it more. I also understand they like to rest. I actually have black floating drainage pvc pipes. She likes to hide in there a lot. I don't know why but this frogs a bit weird... she laid eggs and does occassionally but has the black hands. She never had the black hands before but now has them(nuptial pads). I'm fairly certain their nuptial pads. I've seen them before and hers were like my last males. She was the only albino in the tank and was a female(still is since she sometimes changes to female). Is this possible? 

Anywho.

As for the plants... I just don't want anything to get stuck in the filter and go to waste. Since this will be a sump(has to be-- personal preferance). Is there a way to make sure the plants don't get shredded and sent to the sump?

Thanks for saving my tuckus! I was about to buy wrigglers.

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## Michael

> I just ordered their food. Currently I have the frog in a separate tank because I'm trying to design it more. I also understand they like to rest. I actually have black floating drainage pvc pipes. She likes to hide in there a lot.


Sounds like that will work out fine then.




> I don't know why but this frogs a bit weird... she laid eggs and does occassionally but has the black hands. She never had the black hands before but now has them(nuptial pads). I'm fairly certain their nuptial pads. I've seen them before and hers were like my last males. She was the only albino in the tank and was a female(still is since she sometimes changes to female). Is this possible?


I have an albino which gets 'dark hands' but is the size of a female, never seen it lay eggs though. Never seen it do a mating call or any other male behavior either though. Your guess is as good as mine, he is almost 1 year old.




> As for the plants... I just don't want anything to get stuck in the filter and go to waste. Since this will be a sump(has to be-- personal preferance). Is there a way to make sure the plants don't get shredded and sent to the sump?


Anubias and Java Fern are 'tough' plants you can grow attached to driftwood.. they wouldn't go anywhere. Could add fast growing nitrate sucking plants to your sump/refugium. Valisineria are fast growing plants and will grow in your substrate and won't be going anywhere, they also do well in hard water which ACF also enjoy.




> Thanks for saving my tuckus! I was about to buy wrigglers.



Seems to be enough information to lead me to think that the wrigglers aren't worth the risk, yeah.

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## Felis

Hi,

I have one female with black hands as well. That doesn´t seem to be that extraordinary if she only has "dirty hands". Real nuptial pads are larger, at least my male does have black markings on his arms, too:



But a female looking like that would be strange indeed  :Wink: 

Greetings

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## Michael

> Hi,
> 
> I have one female with black hands as well. That doesn´t seem to be that extraordinary if she only has "dirty hands". Real nuptial pads are larger, at least my male does have black markings on his arms, too:
> 
> 
> 
> But a female looking like that would be strange indeed 
> 
> Greetings


Well I suppose my albino frog would be female then. His (her..) hands do darken but never as much as the pictures I see of male ACF online, the cloaca looks very female to me. I guess it's decided!

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## Felis

I think the cloaca is a clear sign.
 I´ve seen some females with dark hands and a few adult males without noticeable nuptial pads, but looking at the cloaca, it was always possible to determine the frog´s sex (as long as they´re old enough).

P.S. also my male started croaking by the time his arms became black; if you didn´t hear the albino by now, I think that´s another hint  :Wink:

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## Deku

> Sounds like that will work out fine then.
> 
> 
> 
> I have an albino which gets 'dark hands' but is the size of a female, never seen it lay eggs though. Never seen it do a mating call or any other male behavior either though. Your guess is as good as mine, he is almost 1 year old.
> 
> 
> 
> Anubias and Java Fern are 'tough' plants you can grow attached to driftwood.. they wouldn't go anywhere. Could add fast growing nitrate sucking plants to your sump/refugium. Valisineria are fast growing plants and will grow in your substrate and won't be going anywhere, they also do well in hard water which ACF also enjoy.
> ...


I hope to be getting myself more informed. The most I can, before I make a decision. I mean I know these frogs are "easy"(does not mean there is no care involve-- iknow that) compared to other frogs. But I want these frogs not only to "live" but to "thrive". I'm going to test out the interactions in a "fake" set up. I.e. a test run set up. Like a 30gallon (a spare I have somewhere in my house), and put in there all that stuff and a cheap filter and see what actually goes on. To see if she will rip the plants apart and I end up with a clogged filter. Or if they grow and no matter how much she "darts" (which she only does every once in a while such as turning on the lights or feeding time) That was my main concern. I know turtles would maul the plants. I just hope these frogs don't. It'd be a great addition and would help keep water quality in check. Though I do notice the water gets a bit yellow when plants are in there. And I do hope I don't have to "trim" the plants TOO much(some plants kinda grow so fast they end up "shedding" some old leaves).

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## Deku

> Well I suppose my albino frog would be female then. His (her..) hands do darken but never as much as the pictures I see of male ACF online, the cloaca looks very female to me. I guess it's decided!


Same. God they like to mess with my head so much. Dx why do they do this!? I must know! I SWEAR I've seen her laid eggs, which she usually eats(guess she looses some minerals when she lays eggs)

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## Deku

Umm weird thing about it is. I've heard her make "clicking" sounds a few times. Like very very rare. But she's done it.

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## Felis

Clicking sounds mean that she doesn´t want to be amplexed/touched. Mine do this quite regularly, also when competing for food etc.

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## Jen

Personally, I would stock with more frogs.  I also am big with planted tanks.  
My 72 gallon had 12 (or was it 13?) frogs at one point and I might even had been tempted to  squeeze a few more in.   

I had a fairly heavily planted bottom of amazon swords - tie their roots to large (half the size of your palm or so) thin flat rocks and bury in sand and they will not be uprooted.  I also had a large canopy of water wisteria. I left it floating and it grew to a thickness of 6 inches at times.  I turned it with my hands every other day so that all the plants got enough light to stay green and monthly I threw out or gave out bucketfuls until I had trimmed the growth by about 1/3-1/2.  It grows like mad in all of my tanks.  

Looking forward to your set up  - - please give lots of pictures during and after setup

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## Deku

> Clicking sounds mean that she doesn´t want to be amplexed/touched. Mine do this quite regularly, also when competing for food etc.


My apologies for the late reply(hectic week). Thank you for that bit.  :Smile:

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Felis

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## Deku

> Personally, I would stock with more frogs.  I also am big with planted tanks.  
> My 72 gallon had 12 (or was it 13?) frogs at one point and I might even had been tempted to  squeeze a few more in.   
> 
> I had a fairly heavily planted bottom of amazon swords - tie their roots to large (half the size of your palm or so) thin flat rocks and bury in sand and they will not be uprooted.  I also had a large canopy of water wisteria. I left it floating and it grew to a thickness of 6 inches at times.  I turned it with my hands every other day so that all the plants got enough light to stay green and monthly I threw out or gave out bucketfuls until I had trimmed the growth by about 1/3-1/2.  It grows like mad in all of my tanks.  
> 
> Looking forward to your set up  - - please give lots of pictures during and after setup


ummm... I know this is going to sound weird. But would you perhaps take pictures on how you actually manage to tie them to something without them getting destroyed? 
If anything I'm looking for two things:

1)Tough, very prolific surface dweller plants(ones that will provide the frogs some "rest")--- I actually like lily pads but I'm n ot sure if its possible to grow them in tanks.

2)Any plant that is EXTREMELY tough(I.E. Doesn't rip appart easily), very durable(beginner plant basically), very easy to keep rooted(unlike anacharis and cabombas--- which I tried and I cried for a bit "not really but you get the picture") in the tank.  

I currently have TONS of fake plastic plants that go in the foreground digged under sand. I'm thinking of using some of my left over "egg" crates(basically think of like a chain fence-- but plastic of course), then tying the plants roots on it(or stalk or whatevers sturdier) then putting it in the tank first(while its without water or sand) then pour in the sand over it(so its evenly rooted)and then put the water in(add a couple flat river stones-- because I'm picky about looks to prevent it from ever floating up), 

Oh the plants leaves must be tough because if they're not--- they'll float to the filter and clog it and I would be very sad about this. 

this set up has to be a 100% mess-free. (i.e. a week or two after its cycle is done I expect it not to smell like toilet, or the water clarity is obscure, or the filters getting clogged)


I hope this new food I'm giving it helps reduce any "mess". Because my current frog doesn't poop like a turtle would(pooping machine--- trust me even the tiniest baby turtle is still messier than an african clawed frog)

I'd go on youtube to see some set ups. But I kinda don't trust youtube since it maybe just some "expert" claiming to know what he/she is doing and really just giving others bad tips(which is like 90% of all the animal care videos)

I remember that it may have been you whom I thought was the african clawed frog prince/princess(not sure yet) someone here regarded as an expert on them.

Anyways. I just hope that if I can keep 13 frogs I'd keep all types of african clawed frogs(naturals, lab, albino, rectics, piebalds, and anything out there)

I'm to ratio it like this 1m: 2f 

So If I had to pick I'd say....

Albino:1m 1f(they're okay but not my fav color lol)
Natural: 2m : 4f(I'd choose these over the lab raised ones though)
Piebalds: 3 total(kinda more fun to look at)
Rectic: 1m: 1f(it's a bit better than albino but still)

Total frogs: 13

I'm hoping to get this done by the end of summer. I'm trying to think it completely through and then gather the parts piece by piece

Their diet will consist(and currently consist)of:
-Xenopus express' XL Adult frog pellets
-Frozen  krill or shrimp(every other feeding)
-Earthworms(Treat day-- extra feeding day)
-Crickets(once a month-- I'd go for roaches but.. doubt tenants would be happy on that)

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Fingolfin

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## Jen

It is very easy to do and I will see if I can hunt down any pictures of how I tied them down.   I also have used two lily plants in my tanks with success.   The dwarf lily (has reddish green leaves) and the common banana plant.  The dwarf lily has sent lily pads all the way across the surface of my 72 bow and has survived ACF and axolotls.  

The amazon sword I cannot swear by enough.  It grows in thick, shady and luscious with no work lol - my kind of plant!

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## Deku

> It is very easy to do and I will see if I can hunt down any pictures of how I tied them down.   I also have used two lily plants in my tanks with success.   The dwarf lily (has reddish green leaves) and the common banana plant.  The dwarf lily has sent lily pads all the way across the surface of my 72 bow and has survived ACF and axolotls.  
> 
> The amazon sword I cannot swear by enough.  It grows in thick, shady and luscious with no work lol - my kind of plant!


what about ones meant for ponds? like the lily pads that are somewhat large.

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## Jen

I tried a few pond plants myself and here is where I caution you - - they need HIGH levels off ammonia to feed off of and can be highly demanding for oxygen/light/nutrients etc that cannot be met in an aquarium.    I did not have success with them.

I have had lots of success with amazon swords, dwarf lilies, banana plants, moss balls, ludwigia, and wisteria.   I have never had to tinker with my tank to accommodate them and never dosed any fertilizers, chemicals, C02 etc.... Which is preferable to me as the less I have to alter in a tank, the better I feel about the tank.

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## Jen

OK don't laugh.  I couldn't find any pictures of how I had tied down my plants and I didn't want to uproot any of my large ones right now as they are really well rooted now. 

To explain the colors (in case they aren't clear lol)   The green is the plant. The gray is the rock. The browns are the roots.  The pink is how I tie the thread.

I first wrap the sewing thread around the base of the plant, right where the root system begins.  Next I spread the root system and wedge the rock right up into it.   I wrap half of the roots around the rock and then wrap the thread around the roots, binding them to the rock in a crisscross pattern to hold them in place.   I leave about 1/3-1/2 of the roots free by the time I am done.  I pull more roots down and bind them based on how the stability is feeling.  Every now and then after doing a few (maybe a half dozen lashes or so) around the rock, I do a loop (or a few) around the base of the plant at the beginning of the roots and the do more crisscrosses etc. 

It is a trial by error because every rock has a different shape and texture.   I personally prefer oval shaped, slightly irregular rocks as the thread can cling between the nooks and crannies. 

If my magical drawing isn't helpful let me know and tomorrow during water changes I will dig around in one of my smaller tanks for a younger plant and do a picture demonstration

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## Deku

> I tried a few pond plants myself and here is where I caution you - - they need HIGH levels off ammonia to feed off of and can be highly demanding for oxygen/light/nutrients etc that cannot be met in an aquarium.    I did not have success with them.
> 
> I have had lots of success with amazon swords, dwarf lilies, banana plants, moss balls, ludwigia, and wisteria.   I have never had to tinker with my tank to accommodate them and never dosed any fertilizers, chemicals, C02 etc.... Which is preferable to me as the less I have to alter in a tank, the better I feel about the tank.


I guess I'd go with floating moss balls and I'll check the rest out too.

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## Deku

> OK don't laugh.  I couldn't find any pictures of how I had tied down my plants and I didn't want to uproot any of my large ones right now as they are really well rooted now. 
> 
> To explain the colors (in case they aren't clear lol)   The green is the plant. The gray is the rock. The browns are the roots.  The pink is how I tie the thread.
> 
> I first wrap the sewing thread around the base of the plant, right where the root system begins.  Next I spread the root system and wedge the rock right up into it.   I wrap half of the roots around the rock and then wrap the thread around the roots, binding them to the rock in a crisscross pattern to hold them in place.   I leave about 1/3-1/2 of the roots free by the time I am done.  I pull more roots down and bind them based on how the stability is feeling.  Every now and then after doing a few (maybe a half dozen lashes or so) around the rock, I do a loop (or a few) around the base of the plant at the beginning of the roots and the do more crisscrosses etc. 
> 
> It is a trial by error because every rock has a different shape and texture.   I personally prefer oval shaped, slightly irregular rocks as the thread can cling between the nooks and crannies. 
> 
> If my magical drawing isn't helpful let me know and tomorrow during water changes I will dig around in one of my smaller tanks for a younger plant and do a picture demonstration


Although your drawing is magical... it's not magical enough for me to get it. These instructions I'd understand more by pictures.

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## Jen

Haha

not a problem. I will do my best to get a picture tutorial put together for you this weekend. I am putting together a new tank this weekend so I will be able to do it while rearranging my plants  :Frog Smile:

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## Michael

> I tried a few pond plants myself and here is where I caution you - - they need HIGH levels off ammonia to feed off of and can be highly demanding for oxygen/light/nutrients etc that cannot be met in an aquarium.    I did not have success with them.
> 
> I have had lots of success with amazon swords, dwarf lilies, banana plants, moss balls, ludwigia, and wisteria.   I have never had to tinker with my tank to accommodate them and never dosed any fertilizers, chemicals, C02 etc.... Which is preferable to me as the less I have to alter in a tank, the better I feel about the tank.



Well, vallisneria americana is a pond plant that does well in my aquarium. Anubias and Java Fern are probably the de facto African Clawed Frog plants because they're rugged, but slow growers and Anubias in particular, is expensive. If anyone does Anubias I would add fast growing plants with it to suck up nitrates because slow growing and broad leafed plants like Anubias are big time algae magnets.. the shade/nutrient sucking floating plants will help it do better if grown submerged.

All the plants you listed though work fine, though Ludwigia is a bit on the difficult side.

My personal favorite for ACF is floating water sprite, the thin leafed variety known also as India Fern. It's a very fast grower and a nutrient sucker, sadly it's not be doing well in my tank lately.. I think adding duckweed was a mistake. Nothing sucks nutrients up quite like duckweed..

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## Jen

Picture Tutorial 

I used red thread so it would be clear, but I usually use tan thread so it isn't noticeable in the aquarium. 

Step 1.  Lay out plant, rock, thread, scissors.  


Step 2.   Twist thread around and around the base of plant. 


Step 3.  Spread roots, nestle rock up in center. 


Step 4.  Wrap roots around rock. 


Step 5.  Secure with thread.  Crisscross thread to bind roots to rock. 


This is what the bottom of the rock looks like. 



Good luck!  Hope the photos help!

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## Jen

In my opinion...the floating moss balls are a bit of a waste of money. It is often just a tiny bit of moss tied around a ping ball with fish thread and a weight. 

Moss also has a very low ammonia absorption rate so it won't really help with water quality.

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## Michael

moss is really only good for trapping little particles of food, good for shrimp tanks.

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## Deku

> Picture Tutorial 
> 
> I used red thread so it would be clear, but I usually use tan thread so it isn't noticeable in the aquarium. 
> 
> Step 1.  Lay out plant, rock, thread, scissors.  
> 
> 
> Step 2.   Twist thread around and around the base of plant. 
> 
> ...


This should get stickied.

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## Deku

> In my opinion...the floating moss balls are a bit of a waste of money. It is often just a tiny bit of moss tied around a ping ball with fish thread and a weight. 
> 
> Moss also has a very low ammonia absorption rate so it won't really help with water quality.


Moss would be an addition really. I know already that they trap micro particles. Which is a plus. I wouldn't really have them tied with strings(I can see that going wrong with these guys).

I may have to buy some fast growers, and amazon swords and the such. The filter will have to be strong enough to pull out (pardon my language) all the **** from the tank without being too powerful to pretty much drag the plants into it and thus clogging it. I hope the water out put to be enough to  make some movement but not enough that the frogs will be overly stressed about it. I may have to get that aquavac thing that's basically an aquarium vacuum cleaner(removes dirt from the water without doing  a water change) and then that would help with the water changes too.

Also right now because I just "felt" like it-- I went to a specific petstore I somewhat trust and bought two half grown(backlegs grown) american bullfrog tadpoles, I threw them in the tank and the frog is chasing them somewhat. Kinda wanted her to excersice a bit. :V I know someone "somewhere" said feeding frogs (or anything cold blooded really) to amphibians isn't that a good idea because it may contain parasites and the such. But these tadpoles all look healthy to begin with and were treated with salt, and a few meds(they do it to all the new livestock). 

While I hold no emotional attachment for "other" frogs because you have to remember it's sorta the cycle of life. In the wild they -would- be eating -anything- that moves in the water. Hence the lateral back(i think that's the world). 

They hunt based upon water movement and I'm not fully convinced that pellets should be all of their diet. Just adding worms and shrimp kinda isn't enough of variety. I'd give it something like crawfish but they have claws and -will- injure the frogs. 

I saw feeder fish but they're ussually infested with parasites and such. Goldfish are just horrible to feed -any- animal because they're high in fats and hormones and lack basic nutrition. 


Over all I hope to do what you showed me, and get some plants that spread around the ground. I like a plant called "baby's tear" but not sure about it.

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## Michael

> Moss would be an addition really. I know already that they trap micro particles. Which is a plus. I wouldn't really have them tied with strings(I can see that going wrong with these guys).
> 
> I may have to buy some fast growers, and amazon swords and the such. The filter will have to be strong enough to pull out (pardon my language) all the **** from the tank without being too powerful to pretty much drag the plants into it and thus clogging it. I hope the water out put to be enough to  make some movement but not enough that the frogs will be overly stressed about it. I may have to get that aquavac thing that's basically an aquarium vacuum cleaner(removes dirt from the water without doing  a water change) and then that would help with the water changes too.


I still really recommend a canister filter for these frogs. I really like my Eheim 2217, I just broke mine down and cleaned it and yeah it was gross the filtration quality on these units is really great, theyre really quiet and they are workhorses that last for years and years and years.




> Also right now because I just "felt" like it-- I went to a specific petstore I somewhat trust and bought two half grown(backlegs grown) american bullfrog tadpoles, I threw them in the tank and the frog is chasing them somewhat. Kinda wanted her to excersice a bit. :V I know someone "somewhere" said feeding frogs (or anything cold blooded really) to amphibians isn't that a good idea because it may contain parasites and the such. But these tadpoles all look healthy to begin with and were treated with salt, and a few meds(they do it to all the new livestock).


Can't really condone this. You're right though, in the wild Xenopus will catch and eat anything it can whenever it can. However, american bullfrogs aren't something they'd eat in nature either since they come from different continents and quite honestly I really worry about trans-amphibian diseases and parasites. It's really not something you can judge by looking at the specimen and assuming it's safe. I would also imagine that 'salt treating' the tadpoles wasn't a great idea either, I would also wager they are quite salt intolerant. I just don't see the point of this I guess, besides feeding your frogs at a very high cost..




> While I hold no emotional attachment for "other" frogs because you have to remember it's sorta the cycle of life. In the wild they -would- be eating -anything- that moves in the water. Hence the lateral back(i think that's the world).


Mostly arthropods, worms, insect larvae, daphnia.. on seldom occasions will prey upon tadpoles (this usually happens when over crowded), small fish, mammals, even small avians. I once had a huge chart of a study where they went out and captured a bunch of wild Xenopus and flushed their stomach contents if I can find it you may want to check it out. It was very interesting (and backs my statement up).




> They hunt based upon water movement and I'm not fully convinced that pellets should be all of their diet.


They're predators but also scavengers, will scavenge upon dead animals, matter. Pellets aren't bad for them, many frogs live a very long life on pellets alone. I know Terry feeds his reptomin exclusively and his frogs are over a decade old. If nothing else they help round the diet out.




> Just adding worms and shrimp kinda isn't enough of variety. I'd give it something like crawfish but they have claws and -will- injure the frogs.


It's impossible to feed a captive animal a diet as diverse as it would have in the wild. Unless you plan on raising a hundred different species of arthropods.

I have to ask but WHY crayfish? If you want to get all natural on your frogs diet why even consider this species? Xenopus are native to Sub-Sahara Africa and crawfish don't exist in Africa besides introduced/invasive species (raised for food). Shrimp contain thiaminase so I would advise against shrimp entirely. 




> I saw feeder fish but they're ussually infested with parasites and such.


Could breed live bearers or Cichlid Convict fry as long as you kept the tanks well maintained and not overstocked you could do this. But yes one sick fish and you got problems.

Last year I bred black mollies to feed to my frogs (I was given a ton of these fish 30+ without much else to do with them) in a 55 gallon aquarium. It was more trouble than it was worth, the more I read about black mollies proved that they were a brackish/saltwater fish if you REALLY want to keep them in optimal condition. They also tend to get calamus worms when kept in softer, fresh water. I mostly fed my frogs the fry when they were juveniles and it wasn't really even fun to watch, Xenopus are nocturnal animals by nature and will simply wait for the lights to go out to begin hunting resting, placid fish. I never *saw* them once eat a fish, but they certainly did eat them over time. I once came downstairs at night for something and turned on the lights and cause one of my frogs swallowing a molly, that's about the extent of the 'entertainment' value I've gotten with live feedings.

Another bad thing about feeder fish in my opinion is these frogs don't all have the same instinct to hunt. I have one frog who is just a predatory monster and cleaned house and another frog who is fairly indifferent. It's hard to ensure both are fed well if you just toss food in and see what happens. This is why I always feed my frogs by hand and mostly earthworms. Every frog gets fed the same in my tank. =P




> Goldfish are just horrible to feed -any- animal because they're high in fats and hormones and lack basic nutrition.


Contain loads of thiaminase too. Though I highly doubt their fat content is really that huge of a deal, fish fat is actually oil and I would imagine a Xenopus would digest it fine. Now mammal fat.. that's different. Either way yes, goldfish are **** for feeders, they're pond fish and I wish more people realized this. Parasites, disease, and thiaminase make this species inappropriate.




> Over all I hope to do what you showed me, and get some plants that spread around the ground. I like a plant called "baby's tear" but not sure about it.


Baby Tears are a carpeting plant, they're hard to do with clawed frogs as they tend to kick these plants up faster than they grow. They also need fertilizers, CO2, and high light and your frogs will not like any of that in their environment. I tried to grow dwarf hair grass in my tank way back, it was a waste of money and time. Xenopus kick up substrate as a defensive maneuver, they also kick up plants.

Personally I would really like to get a 125 gallon tank and do a paludarium for my frogs some day. It would look really cool, at least.

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## Deku

> I still really recommend a canister filter for these frogs. I really like my Eheim 2217, I just broke mine down and cleaned it and yeah it was gross the filtration quality on these units is really great, theyre really quiet and they are workhorses that last for years and years and years.    Can't really condone this. You're right though, in the wild Xenopus will catch and eat anything it can whenever it can. However, american bullfrogs aren't something they'd eat in nature either since they come from different continents and quite honestly I really worry about trans-amphibian diseases and parasites. It's really not something you can judge by looking at the specimen and assuming it's safe. I would also imagine that 'salt treating' the tadpoles wasn't a great idea either, I would also wager they are quite salt intolerant. I just don't see the point of this I guess, besides feeding your frogs at a very high cost..    Mostly arthropods, worms, insect larvae, daphnia.. on seldom occasions will prey upon tadpoles (this usually happens when over crowded), small fish, mammals, even small avians. I once had a huge chart of a study where they went out and captured a bunch of wild Xenopus and flushed their stomach contents if I can find it you may want to check it out. It was very interesting (and backs my statement up).    They're predators but also scavengers, will scavenge upon dead animals, matter. Pellets aren't bad for them, many frogs live a very long life on pellets alone. I know Terry feeds his reptomin exclusively and his frogs are over a decade old. If nothing else they help round the diet out.    It's impossible to feed a captive animal a diet as diverse as it would have in the wild. Unless you plan on raising a hundred different species of arthropods.  I have to ask but WHY crayfish? If you want to get all natural on your frogs diet why even consider this species? Xenopus are native to Sub-Sahara Africa and crawfish don't exist in Africa besides introduced/invasive species (raised for food). Shrimp contain thiaminase so I would advise against shrimp entirely.     Could breed live bearers or Cichlid Convict fry as long as you kept the tanks well maintained and not overstocked you could do this. But yes one sick fish and you got problems.  Last year I bred black mollies to feed to my frogs (I was given a ton of these fish 30+ without much else to do with them) in a 55 gallon aquarium. It was more trouble than it was worth, the more I read about black mollies proved that they were a brackish/saltwater fish if you REALLY want to keep them in optimal condition. They also tend to get calamus worms when kept in softer, fresh water. I mostly fed my frogs the fry when they were juveniles and it wasn't really even fun to watch, Xenopus are nocturnal animals by nature and will simply wait for the lights to go out to begin hunting resting, placid fish. I never *saw* them once eat a fish, but they certainly did eat them over time. I once came downstairs at night for something and turned on the lights and cause one of my frogs swallowing a molly, that's about the extent of the 'entertainment' value I've gotten with live feedings.  Another bad thing about feeder fish in my opinion is these frogs don't all have the same instinct to hunt. I have one frog who is just a predatory monster and cleaned house and another frog who is fairly indifferent. It's hard to ensure both are fed well if you just toss food in and see what happens. This is why I always feed my frogs by hand and mostly earthworms. Every frog gets fed the same in my tank. =P    Contain loads of thiaminase too. Though I highly doubt their fat content is really that huge of a deal, fish fat is actually oil and I would imagine a Xenopus would digest it fine. Now mammal fat.. that's different. Either way yes, goldfish are **** for feeders, they're pond fish and I wish more people realized this. Parasites, disease, and thiaminase make this species inappropriate.    Baby Tears are a carpeting plant, they're hard to do with clawed frogs as they tend to kick these plants up faster than they grow. They also need fertilizers, CO2, and high light and your frogs will not like any of that in their environment. I tried to grow dwarf hair grass in my tank way back, it was a waste of money and time. Xenopus kick up substrate as a defensive maneuver, they also kick up plants.  Personally I would really like to get a 125 gallon tank and do a paludarium for my frogs some day. It would look really cool, at least.


  I wouldn't em feeding em crayfish, or just random stuff. No I know they're sub-saharan, but I want them to get AT LEAST a very large different diet of  AT LEAST 10 diff. food items. I know you shouldn't put too much thought on this because they're not human. But jeez if I was an animal and was fed 1-3 things at most I'd go crazy. I didn't even like it when my own mother gave me the same meal two days in a row. I guess I have a highly varied diet now that I'm on my own... But I wouldn't want any other living being to have to go through that. I guess it's just something that no matter how much I keep telling myself that they're just frogs and have basic thinking, and emotions isn't enough to make me feel okay at the end of the day.   When I kept a snapping turtle(I was younger) and I kept it in a 250gallon aquarium(it was like 12inch) I fed it soo many different foods. I would go to my friends man made pond which he keeps in pristine condition(he eats the fish he catches sometimes), no pollutants since he's far out in the "dirt" lands(country side in your tongue). The fish feed on varied stuff. Basically I would take some of the healthiest kind, and I would bring it home quickly(alive) some would be fed as is(after the fish were treated for parasites, and bacteria-- kinda made them weak somewhat dead-- shocked state) but pretty much would see tons of tiny parasites drop to the bottom(ich rarely-- which if you have a magnifying glass are easy to see) and I would give those to the my turtle AFTER I washed them off a couple times in fresh clean water(non- chlorine of course) and the turtle would relish it. I would then take the other fish, kill it, boil it, along with crayfish, freshwater clams, and a few other inverts. I would then add them to a super strong blender(vitamix500-- industrial) and I would throw in 3 dozen crickets, half a pound of earthworms, 3 hand fulls of water plants native to their region(water cress, lily pads, anacharis, etc-- all which were boiled first for 5mins) and then I would add some kale, carrots, 1 cuttle bone, 2 tablespoons of vitamin powder.   I would then hit the "puree" and this thing was soo powerful it made it into liquid very quickly(of course it dulled the blades often-- which I needed a whetstone to keep up). Then I would be making knoxx gelatin (PURE gelatine-- no additives) which I would add alot of enough to mix with the batter and that when it sets it's pretty hard(hard enough to keep the beak trimmed but not so hard it's like impossible for even a snapper to cut it).  He actually liked it. I made three different kinds. Depending on the season. This was done because I researched their natural diet. They're more scavengers.    Point is--- I wanted to give that kind of quality keeping to my frogs. I see that xenopus has good specimens but they condone people to keep their frogs in 1-5gallon aquariums. Which is sorta cruel. Even for an experiment. :/

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## Michael

> I wouldn't em feeding em crayfish, or just random stuff. No I know they're sub-saharan, but I want them to get AT LEAST a very large different diet of  AT LEAST 10 diff. food items. I know you shouldn't put too much thought on this because they're not human. But jeez if I was an animal and was fed 1-3 things at most I'd go crazy. I didn't even like it when my own mother gave me the same meal two days in a row. I guess I have a highly varied diet now that I'm on my own... But I wouldn't want any other living being to have to go through that.


Nothing wrong with variety. I feed my frogs mostly earthworms, some reptomin, some times crickets. They're plump, active and very healthy (literally get so excited during feedings they almost jump out of the tank). So I don't know if you need to find over 10 different types of food.




> They're more scavengers.    Point is--- I wanted to give that kind of quality keeping to my frogs. I see that xenopus has good specimens but they condone people to keep their frogs in 1-5gallon aquariums. Which is sorta cruel. Even for an experiment. :/


I don't like the idea of people keeping their frogs in substandard conditions either.

There is an adult clawed frog at a LFS here in the town I just moved to and I want to buy it. She (I think) is very thin and kept in an a 55 gallon (guesstimate) with 3 large goldfish and it's a completely empty aquarium with no where to hide or explore. I can't convince them to sell it to me, said it's a display animal and refuse to sell it. They feed it goldfish (which I told them is bad). I let them know it was on the thin side and let them know that earthworms would be a much better diet but I doubt it will make much of a difference. I was kind of excited when I saw an adult clawed frog, rarely do you see them sold as adults, oh well.

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## Deku

> Nothing wrong with variety. I feed my frogs mostly earthworms, some reptomin, some times crickets. They're plump, active and very healthy (literally get so excited during feedings they almost jump out of the tank). So I don't know if you need to find over 10 different types of food.    I don't like the idea of people keeping their frogs in substandard conditions either.  There is an adult clawed frog at a LFS here in the town I just moved to and I want to buy it. She (I think) is very thin and kept in an a 55 gallon (guesstimate) with 3 large goldfish and it's a completely empty aquarium with no where to hide or explore. I can't convince them to sell it to me, said it's a display animal and refuse to sell it. They feed it goldfish (which I told them is bad). I let them know it was on the thin side and let them know that earthworms would be a much better diet but I doubt it will make much of a difference. I was kind of excited when I saw an adult clawed frog, rarely do you see them sold as adults, oh well.


  I guess it's just a personal thing. Now for the frogs. You "could" keep them with LARGE goldfish as long as the frogs get food and the fish gets theirs. But that's just my opinion. These frogs are very tolerant. These frogs are faster than goldfish(goldfish are fat and slow-- owned them for 12 years).

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## Michael

> I guess it's just a personal thing. Now for the frogs. You "could" keep them with LARGE goldfish as long as the frogs get food and the fish gets theirs. But that's just my opinion. These frogs are very tolerant. These frogs are faster than goldfish(goldfish are fat and slow-- owned them for 12 years).


Did not take offense to the fact the frog was housed with large goldfish. Was more bothered by the fact the frog was underweight, had no real place to hide/rest, and was fed an improper diet.

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## Deku

> Did not take offense to the fact the frog was housed with large goldfish. Was more bothered by the fact the frog was underweight, had no real place to hide/rest, and was fed an improper diet.


  Sorry I missed that part(I was tired); yeah I'd report it to proper authorities. It's considered animal abuse.

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## Michael

I'd say it's more a case of ignorance rather than abuse. Maybe I can convince them this weekend to let me buy him.

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## Deku

> I'd say it's more a case of ignorance rather than abuse. Maybe I can convince them this weekend to let me buy him.


  This is more of a joke-- but steal it. LOL Obv. you shouldn't but. Would be nice. Or atleast nice to just take it and leave the money on the register. Though you'd get in trouble for that.

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## Michael

My girlfriend actually suggested we do just that lol.. I never knew I'd become a frog smuggler..

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## Deku

> My girlfriend actually suggested we do just that lol.. I never knew I'd become a frog smuggler..


  or you could annoy them with PETA lolol. They wont leave em alone at ALL.

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## Michael

> or you could annoy them with PETA lolol. They wont leave em alone at ALL.


PETA is against the ownership of animals period, doubt they'd be much help. They have a whole page dedicated to the cruelty of aquariums.

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## Xavier

This thread should be stickied, a ton of good advice on it

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## Heather

Hi new to the forum looking for a bit of reassurance my albino frog escaped his tank on Tuesday as some point I found him sitting on my wooden floor under the window. He's still alive and back in his tank and firmly secured now but he's not eating much or at all it this a bad sign

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