# Frogs & Toads > Toads >  HELP !!!  Parasitic worms found in my WC Bufo alvarius toads

## jacuoco88

Today, I noticed a huge amount of small white worms resembling maggots in the feces of one of my W/C Colorado River Toads.  I bought them about a week ago and have been feeding them raw chunks of Angus beef cut into small chunks the size of pinky mice.  I did this to fatten them up.  The meat was dusted with vitamins and calcium.  They've become much more alert and lively since I got them.  But this morning I found the worms.
does anyone know what these are and what I can do -- short of taking them to a vet.  Thanks much.  RSVP.

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## arielgasca420

A lot of people on here recommend a specialist by the name of Dr. Frye. he will do and exam on a fecal sample and tell you exactly what type of parasites you have so that you may treat it with the proper medicine. To me it sounds like hookworms but that is a shot in the dark. This is why I do not take wild caught animals. too expensive to get them to live in captivity. I wish you the best of luck and I will see if I can help you get his information

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## mrzoggs

from what i hear hookworms cant be traced by the visible eye. I sent fecals to dr frye and his assistant called me back saying the feces i sent had the most hookworms she had ever seen in a single examination but yet i cant see anything in the poop. But arielgasca is right, send the fecals to dr frye or take them to a vet.

dr.frye.vetatmilan@gmail.com is his email. you can contact him there. if you need information on how to collect and send feces, 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gen...amination.html

check that website. 


Ryan

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## jacuoco88

Thanks for the fast reply.  But these aren't worms you can't see.  These look like a cross between FFF larvae or maggots.  And they're quite active crawling through the fecal matter.  I got these from a guy selling them on faunaclassifieds.  I don't know anyone that sells this type of toad CB.  This is the season for them and they're for sale everywhere.  They're also known by the Media as psychedelic toads.  Can this doctor write me a script and fax it to a pharmacy?  I'm gonna check.  Thank you so much. I just joined this site about one hour ago.*​*

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## mrzoggs

he will mail you the meds. you can purchase them directly from him. if i had to guess itd be panacur. you dust your feeders with them once weekly. it is $14 per tablspoon. then you will send in another fecal after 4 weeks to see if they are gone.

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## arielgasca420

I remember that mrZoggs. what white worms can be visible?

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## jacuoco88

I emailed the vet at the address you gave me.  Thanks again.

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## arielgasca420

yea I remember reading about these toads. It is possible to breed them in captivity, but you cannot be caught synthesizing their toxins. that is where it becomes illegal

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## mrzoggs

i honestly dont know what white worms would be visible. i just remember them saying i wouldnt be able to see them. who knows. maybe bigger frogs mean bigger worms. 


just curious... what do you get out of synthesizing their toxins? a hallucinagen? a poison? thats funny.

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## jacuoco88

While I was waiting for the vets reply, I did some research and no matter whether they're hookworms, roundworms, nematodes, etc the drug named Panacur C (fenbendazole) is a broad spectrum anti-microbial which will kill them all.  And it's inexpensive.  So I'll check it out at Petco tonight or 1-800- petmeds.
You're right they can be bred in captivity.  The female lays about 8000 eggs and the time-period between egg, tadpole and toadling is very short to coincide with the short rainy season in the Sonoran Desert.  As for the other matter, you don't need to synthesize the drug, their body does.  Their parotid glands produce a venom (bufotenin) and an hallucinogen (DMAE or something like that) thats then smoked.  The "toad licking" stories you've probably heard about are BS spread by the media and law enforcement.  Anyway, toads are one of the few pets not banned in NYC.  And they eat out of my hand, so I'm keeping them.  They're really cute and only cost me $50 each (1 male & 1 female).

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## mrzoggs

doubt you will find the medicine in petsmart. id send a fecal to dr frye or see if you can purchase the medicine from him without sending in a fecal...

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## arielgasca420

some guy in colorado was caught with a lab for this toad. it was a lab to "milk" the toad. I do want to do more research on this toad. mainly because it dwells in CA

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## mrzoggs

oh wow i just googled. i didnt realize it made DMT. that is the strongest hallucinagen known to man from what i hear.

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## arielgasca420

There is DMT in all living things, including plants, but only certain animals can actually synthesis it within their bodies, such as the Bufo alvarius. in my own personal opinion I call this the conscious chemical because it makes you very aware of your surroundings. Certain drugs like Iowaska is derived from a tree's root in the Amazon. This is why I believe plants have levels of communication between one another and, as crazy as it sounds, have some level of consciousness. 
Drugs have always amazed me, but DMT is by far the most intricate and interesting.

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## mrzoggs

dmt releases itself in a massive amount when you die. it IS the afterlife. so being able to experience it before you die somewhat amazes me.

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## jacuoco88

> doubt you will find the medicine in petsmart. id send a fecal to dr frye or see if you can purchase the medicine from him without sending in a fecal...


I already checked 1800petmeds.com and they sell it in small amounts for about $7.  Truthfully, I'm not trying to spend a fortune on a vet when this drug kills about every endo-parasite in existence.  I can even use it on my Arachnids and centipedes.  But I'll check Petco's website or call before going.

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## jacuoco88

> There is DMT in all living things, including plants, but only certain animals can actually synthesis it within their bodies, such as the Bufo alvarius. in my own personal opinion I call this the conscious chemical because it makes you very aware of your surroundings. Certain drugs like Iowaska is derived from a tree's root in the Amazon. This is why I believe plants have levels of communication between one another and, as crazy as it sounds, have some level of consciousness. 
> Drugs have always amazed me, but DMT is by far the most intricate and interesting.


Please don't rely completely on what they say on the erowid.com site.  They appear to be a bunch of old, hippie burnouts.  There's more useful info available. Also there's a guy on YouTube (google "foose" and "Bufo alvarius") who I've spoken to and he's very knowledgeable about most exotic animals.

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## arielgasca420

> dmt releases itself in a massive amount when you die. it IS the afterlife. so being able to experience it before you die somewhat amazes me.


that is also very true. not a lot of people know that. It is why they think peoples life flashes before their eyes in a near death experience

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## mrzoggs

very nice man. thanks for the info. the usually sell it by the tablespoon. im gonna have to check the price differences and see which is cheaper. its a good thing to have around for amphibians. 


sorry to hijack the thread previosuly. i knew this stuff came from some frogs, but that was before i was into frogs. neat to know that the frog is available to people.

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## arielgasca420

> Please don't rely completely on what they say on the erowid.com site.  They appear to be a bunch of old, hippie burnouts.  There's more useful info available. Also there's a guy on YouTube (google "foose" and "Bufo alvarius") who I've spoken to and he's very knowledgeable about most exotic animals.


Trust me, my information does not come from this website. Most of my information comes from science articles and documentaries. I thought you might enjoy some extra reading on the subject. the link I gave you was in response to a wall street journal article. I am personally not into the hallucinogenic drugs myself. I am just so fascinated on the science behind it rather than the recreational uses.

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## jacuoco88

UPDATE:  I emailed Dr. Frye yesterday and he asked me to send photos of the worms.  So I made a short video using my iPad showing about 8 of the worms removed from the fecal matter.  I put a penny next to them for size reference.  I didn't hear back from the Doc til this morning and he wrote "That's crazy.  Those aren't hookworms or nematodes.  They look like maggots.". He asked me if they are that "mobile" right after coming out the toad, because in the video, they're going berserk.  This whole episode has me really creeped out because I think the maggots came from the raw Angus beef I fed them.  I ate the same meat, albeit, well cooked.  He said the Panacur would kill the maggots too.  I had already ordered some from Amazon.com last night (Panacur C - fenbendazole).  It came out to only $7 w/shipping.  Can't beat that.  I have to do more research because I was under the impression that maggots aren't parasites because they can only feed on dead flesh.  *​*

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## arielgasca420

Well, now i know not to feed raw meat to my frog. Was this your first time feeding raw beef? If you have some left you should try pour a little soda on it to see if the maggots come out.

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## jacuoco88

> Well, now i know not to feed raw meat to my frog. Was this your first time feeding raw beef? If you have some left you should try pour a little soda on it to see if the maggots come out.


Yeah, it was the first time because I just bought the toads recently.  But I just think there are microscopic eggs on the beef and then they develop into larvae (maggots) during the few days it takes for the meat to travel through the toad's digestive tract.  It was just regular Angus beef I bought at the supermarket for myself to eat and I set aside some for them to eat.  I was trying to save $ because pinky mice in NYC cost about $2/each.  I can get 20 of those out a $1 piece of meat.  From now on I'm just gonna nuke the meat in the microwave first.  That should everything (bacteria, parasites, etc.)
Where did you hear that pouring soda on meat makes maggots come out?  LMAO!! :Big Applause:

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## mrzoggs

anything carbonated will make them come out. i suggest sprite, just because its clear and you will be able to see them better.

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## arielgasca420

I wouldnt suggest fatty foods for too long. It would be like fattening up a kid with top ramen. Not very nutritious. Since NY is so close to canada i would check around for canadian nightcrawlers. They are an excellent food and thrive well in cooler weather. 
I didnt hear the soda trick from any one source. I saw a youtube video of sprite being poured on raw pork meat and little white things squirming around. I only suggest this so that you can get the maggots to come out and go back to the supermarket and get a refund. Thats just wrong and is one reason i stay away from meats

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## NoviceFrogger

How did you administer the Panacur C - fenbendazole? Also, how often was it administered?

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## mrzoggs

you dust your feeders with it once a week.

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## jacuoco88

> How did you administer the Panacur C - fenbendazole? Also, how often was it administered?


I sprinkled some on pieces of meat three times a week for two weeks.  The toads showed no ill effects from the medication and have been thriving ever since. :Embarrassment:   In fact, they've doubled in size.  :Frog Smile:  :Frog Smile:  I made two YouTube videos of me feeding them.

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## NoviceFrogger

Thanks for the info, I just ordered some Panacur C - fenbendazole and will give it to the remaining frog jus to make sure he is healthy. Once you administer one course of medicine is there any reason to expect any parasites in the future or is this a one time issue?

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## jacuoco88

> Thanks for the info, I just ordered some Panacur C - fenbendazole and will give it to the remaining frog jus to make sure he is healthy. Once you administer one course of medicine is there any reason to expect any parasites in the future or is this a one time issue?


My understanding on the subject is that ALL wild caught fauna whether they're amphibians, reptiles, mammals and invertebrates are most likely infected with Nematode Worms and should receive a course of a broad spectrum anti-microbial such as Panacur C.  Once the animals have gone through the regimen, the only way for them to get reinfected is exposure to the old substrate (so replace it or microwave it and sterilize enclosure) or exposure to a WC animal newly introduced into your collection.  So segregate and medicate any new additions that MAY have been WC.  :Frog Surprise: Dealers don't always tell the truth. :AR15:   I personally know a guy whose entire arachnid collection was wiped out by nematodes -- so they're no joke. :Mad:   You can order Panacur C from Amazon.com which includes S&H for only $7.  And I only had to use 1/2 of one of the three packs.  I'm glad to help but always do your own research.  It's interesting also.

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## babyvmunster

so, i think this happened to our white lipped tree frog. he had fruit flies in his tank this week.. is it harmful to him? 

http://i.imgur.com/rTfQ1.jpg

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## KingCam

Fascinating thread!

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## Wormwood

It might also have simply been the meat.  Even raw meat, for human consumption often has various parasites from the cattle or other stock animal in them.  It's why your never susposed to eat raw beef or pork.   Feeding the raw meat directly to the animal, it could have entered the toad and took root there.

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