# Frogs & Toads > Frogs >  Good Frog for Beginner?

## MaeDay97

So, I was planning on getting some bullfrog tadpoles to raise, but now that I've been reading more, I'm not sure. I'm wanting to get a 55 gallon tank and the tetrafauna viquarium. What frog would be good for both a beginner and that type of setup?

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## ColleenT

bullfrogs get huge. idk if that size tank would be big enough. It's hard to say. most treefrogs are easy and fun but they need a verticle tank. if you are willing to convert the tank, you can do a fantastic setup for some White's tree frogs, or something similar.

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## bill

American bullfrogs do get large, and could live a while in a 55. One of the other mods, heather, kept hers in a 55, I believe. 

The viquarium , in my opinion, is a waste. They are good for turtles and such, but they are a royal pain to work with. It's easier to just build your own tank. 

As far as frogs go, consider your skill level and what feeder foods you are comfortable handling. Also, a lot depends on what type of tank you want to keep. A 55 is really no good for tree frogs, since there is no vertical conversion for that size tank, so everything would need to be custom made. However, it would be a great tank for fire belly toads, dart frogs, chorus frogs, reed frogs, mantellas, and leopard  frogs, to name a few. Some would need a water feature, some don't. Some of these eat crickets or roaches, some eat fruit flies. Hence the reason I said you need to be comfortable with them. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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Heatheranne

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## MaeDay97

Oh, White's tree frogs are adorable. What size tank would you recommend for one? I've been looking at craigslist, and there was a ten gallon vertical hexagon styled one, but I don't know if that would be big enough.

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## bill

10g would be pushing it for one. They grow close to 4" when mature. An 18x18x24 terrarium would be the right size for a white's.  One note about white's tree frogs. Avoid purchasing them from a big box petshop. They are notorious for carrying parasites. Better to purchase one from a reputable dealer and pay the shipping. Your interests would best be served to start with a healthy frog versus one that may have issues and cost you more than the shipping in the long run. They are excellent frogs for beginners though. And they have a lot of personality.  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## MaeDay97

Alright, I figured ten gallonswould be no good. I'll keep looking and doing research, and bring any questions here. Thanks!

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## bill

My pleasure  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## MaeDay97

So, I came across the American Green Tree Frog, which I think is just adorable. How are they as a beginner frog? Yay or nay?

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## bill

Yay  :Smile: 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## MaeDay97

Alright, great  :Smile:  time to do more research

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## Carlos

Hello and welcome to FF!  First, read this article:  Frog Forum - Choosing a Frog.  Second, go to article section and look at any care articles for frogs you might be interested on.  Then, once you decide on a frog; you can start looking at enclosures and other needed equipment.  If interested in _Hyla cinerea_ ​(American Green Tree Frog); here is a care sheet for them:  http://www.frogforum.net/care-sheet-...a-cinerea.html.  Good luck  :Smile:  !

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Heatheranne

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## MaeDay97

So, I want to get three American Green Tree Frogs. Would this habitat work, or do I need to look for something else? 
http://m.petco.com/product/115557/Ex...plies_Habitats

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## bill

Thanks Carlos! I always forget the choosing a frog link. I really need to bookmark that one!! One of these days, my brain will function like a normal human lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bill

> So, I want to get three American Green Tree Frogs. Would this habitat work, or do I need to look for something else? 
> http://m.petco.com/product/115557/Ex...plies_Habitats


Yes, that would work just fine. Make sure you get the 24" tall version. Tree frogs prefer height over floor space. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## MaeDay97

I actually found one I like better on amazon. 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000OA...ref=mp_s_a_1_1

What else might I need to get for the frogs?

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## MaeDay97

Or would the first one be better?

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## MaeDay97

Just realized it's pretty much the same, the forest one just has more stuff. Oops, lol

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## bill

Yup. The first one has a light fixture. That's the only other large expense. Of course, you could go with the less expensive of the 2 and just buy a light fixture for it. 

Other items you would need would be: water bowl, drainage layer, substrate and decor. Some of that may come with the first option. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## MaeDay97

Yeah, it looks like it comes with all that in the first option. And I found the first option on amazon as well, which is cheaper than petco.

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## Ryan

Best place to check are at garage sales, i remember getting a 30gallon for 12$ and a 20 gal for 7$. 
But if ordering online make sure to remember the shipping costs as well. One or two frogs should be 
comfortable in there.

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## MaeDay97

I live outside of town, so I don't have many garage sales to go to. But if I do see any I'll definitely check if they have anything.

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## MaeDay97

So with the terrarium I'm looking at, how would you recommend keeping a steady temp?

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## Carlos

OK, so we are going with AGTFs, cool  :Cool:  !  Each frog needs like 5 gallons; so an ET Small Tall (18x18x24) works out to around 30G and you could keep 5-6 AGTFs in there. 

Recommendation is to get a plain enclosure and then buy the items you really need for it versus buying a kit and paying for items you won't use  :Smile:  .

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## MaeDay97

Alright, so if I do that, what else will I need? I know I'll need substrate, thermometer and hygrometer, water dish, some sort of plants/decor type things. What suggestions do you have on those? And anything else I need? Oh and for heating?

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## ColleenT

live pothos plants are nice bc they don't need special lighting or anything. very easy plant and many frog types love them. my baby gray tree frogs love their pothos plants. you can either plant it in the substrate or leave it potted. i have fake hanging plants that suction on, i got myself a piece of grape tree wood and it's like a small tree so that is in mine, a fake vine with suction cups and rings to hang it on the walls. tree frogs want to be up high, so things that help them do that is good.

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## Carlos

Material needed will depend on decor desired.  You could keep simple and use coco liner sheet (or EcoWeb) material for back and side walls... or build an intricate decor with pond expanding foam and driftwood.  If using the later, will need foam, Titebond III, and shredded coco plus the driftwood.  If a water feature is desired, this is stage you would engineer it in and depending on design might need a pump or filter too. Myself manual mist; but some use auto misters or foggers and those have to be bought too.  If doing auto-mister would only do MistKing.

For the false bottom will need egg crate material, couple feet 1 in. PVC pipe (and saw to cut and notch it); and plastic window screen to make barrier to lay substrate on.  For that will use ABG type soil; can make own or buy ready kit at Josh's.  Maybe throw in couple light plastic pots to use as molds during foam background construction stage.  Finally add any other driftwood or decor items desired.  And obviously will need to either get enclosure drilled for a bulkhead or get drill bit and do so yourself.  

At this point you add plants and your cleaners team (springtails, etc).  Let the vivarium cycle up for at least 30 days and add frogs  :Smile:  .  Simple right?  Most important thing now is to read through a few builds in vivarium section and learn from them to avoid any pitfalls in yours.

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## MaeDay97

I've been reading articles on the neherp website, and learning about the options with substrate. And now I noticed the red eyed tree frog. How easy are those to care for? I've absolutely fallen in love with their coloration. I know I've changed my mind on type of frog like four times now, but I suppose that's what the research stage is for  :Smile:

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## MaeDay97

And is a bulkhead necessary? I'm just a bit worried about whether I'll be able to drill without screwing up the glass.

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## MaeDay97

Also, I've read some pros and cons of the false bottom drainage layer versus the more traditional one. I think I'm going to go with the more traditional, since there's more surface area for the beneficial bacteria to grow. Although if you think the false bottom is better, then by all means share your thoughts on it, after all, you know more on the topic than me, lol

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## MaeDay97

Oh, and one more thing, I think I'm going to go with the exoterra one without the kit, which comes with a background already in.

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## ColleenT

Red Eyed Tree Frogs are more delicate, their needs are more specific. it all depends on what you are willing to put into it, the green or White's tree frogs are much easier. if you decide on RETF, please do a lot of research and and take your time learning about them. 

the Exo Terra backgrounds can allow crickets to get behind it, and sometimes frogs too. there are ways to secure it down to prevent this.

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## Heather

I'd have to agree on the RETF's. They can be sensitive and tough for a beginner. Best to wait until you have a bit of experience behind you  :Smile: . 

Another thing to think about is which species are awake during the day (diurnal) or awake at night (nocturnal). Many tree frogs are awake at night. Dart frogs and fire belly toads are awake during the day and are fun to watch. Both species are energetic and entertaining. 

Just a thought  :Smile: .

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## MaeDay97

The dart frogs are gorgeous, and by their looks alone would be first choice, but everything I've read says they're not for beginners. Though I suppose with enough research I could possibly be prepared for the level of care they need. I'm leaning towards the RETF. I have quite a bit of experience with animals in general, so with enough research I'd be pretty confident that I could handle it.

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## bill

Having kept both, I can, without a doubt, say that darts are far easier. Retf are definitely not a beginner frog, while any of the dendrobates genus of darts are perfect for beginners. I would even include some of the ranitomeya and epidibates to that list as well. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## MaeDay97

Oh, alright. Well, I'll do a lot of research on both types. I still have plenty of time to decide.

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## MaeDay97

Okay, I think for the setup I want, the dart frogs would be great. I really like the el cope ones, those are gorgeous.

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## MaeDay97

Considering my room gets really cold in the winter, i need a heater of some sort... what size heating pad would i need?

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## Ryan

Depending on the size of your tank, there should be heat mats of different sizes for different 
size cages. If you can, use a thermostat gauge to ensure the heat pad wont overheat.

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## MaeDay97

Yeah, that's what i was gonna try. I'll have to find the one that'll fit 18x24. Cause its supposed to go on the side, right?

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## Ryan

the side is the best place for the heat mat so the ambient temp is raised

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## MaeDay97

Alright, so I'll look into that. Any suggestions on the thermostat or heat pad?

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## bugmankeith

In my opinion dwarf clawed frogs are very easy to keep.

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