# Frogs & Toads > Tree Frogs >  Question - My tree frog is sitting on the bottom of his terrarium . . .

## Kay

does that mean anything?  Until this morning, he has always been sitting (sleeping) on one of the branches, usually a higher branch.  Once or twice this past week he has been in a lower branch, which was unusual.  This morning he is on the floor/bottom sitting on the substrate, kind of hiding behind leaves of a plant.  I just wondering if this indicates something is wrong . . . only because he has never done this before.  Nothing else has changed -- he's been eating, growing, sitting in his water bowl, etc.

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## Don

Hi Kay,
I would post of pic of the tank.

You may also want to post info such as humitidy and temps in the tank along with info about any recent changes in the tank or physical appearance of the frog.

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## Poly

I have no experience with tree frogs, but seeing as how they like to sit in higher locations, why not purchase a stick on (usually held on with large suction cups) perch that has a built in water bowl (usually just a 1" deep dent in the perch), I'm sure he'd love to soak in that.

Just a suggestion,

~Royce  :Smile:

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## Don

> Hi Kay,
> I would post of pic of the tank.
> 
> You may also want to post info such as *humitidy* and temps in the tank along with info about any recent changes in the tank or physical appearance of the frog.


Wow, am I a good speller or what?

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## Kay

> Hi Kay,
> I would post of pic of the tank.
> 
> You may also want to post info such as humitidy and temps in the tank along with info about any recent changes in the tank or physical appearance of the frog.


I will post pictures a little later (someone has my camera).

The tank is a 10 gallon Exo-Terra Terrarium, with a screen top.  I have some coconut fiber on the bottom (it is dry, I checked), with a pothos and some tree branches that go all the way to the top of the tank.

The temperature stays at 80, except a basking corner that is 90 degrees (for a couple hours a day).  The humidity stays around 60 degrees.  He eats well and I have seen him at his water bowl.

There has been absolutely no chances to anything with this little guy.  The only difference was that he was sitting on the floor of the terrarium this morning instead of up on a branch.

I moved him and placed him on his usual top branch.  He stayed up there for a little while, and then moved down to a lower branch. Except for today, he 100% of the time stays at the very top of the branches, and sometimes even on top of the thermometer.

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## Pixidust

What your describing sounds like your froggie might be calcium deficit. I am new to frogs, but the care sheet for tree frogs warns about frogs sleeping on the ground, as the number one warning sign for not enough calcium in they're diet.

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## Kay

> What your describing sounds like your froggie might be calcium deficit. I am new to frogs, but the care sheet for tree frogs warns about frogs sleeping on the ground, as the number one warning sign for not enough calcium in they're diet.


Thank you for that information.  I have reviewed the limited information I have, and also tried Googling this, but have not found anything so far.  Maybe I'm not dusting my crickets enough!

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## Kay

I had to put a towel behind it because of the glare (and my inability to use a camera  :Embarrassment: )

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## Don

I'd drop the daytime temps to between 75-80 in its warmest spots and get a little moisture to the soil.  I believe you mentioned it was dry.  
I usually mist my Red Eyes viv twice a day and try to keep the leaves, branches and accents pretty wet since they drink be absorbing the water.

Keep in mind that the more accents you have up high the easier it is for the frog to stay up off the substrate.  

Tank looks very nice by the way.

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## Kay

> I'd drop the daytime temps to between 75-80 in its warmest spots and get a little moisture to the soil.  I believe you mentioned it was dry.  
> I usually mist my Red Eyes viv twice a day and try to keep the leaves, branches and accents pretty wet since they drink be absorbing the water.
> 
> Keep in mind that the more accents you have up high the easier it is for the frog to stay up off the substrate.  
> 
> Tank looks very nice by the way.


I thought that maybe he needed bigger branches since he has grown a lot since this was first set up.  This morning he is on a lower branch.  Maybe these just aren't so stable anymore due to his size.  I will make sure to get more stuff towards the top of the tank.  Right now I mist him just one time a day, but I'll increase that and also mist everything inside the tank.

What is a good nighttime temperature for his tank?  Thanks for your help!

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## Badger

A great way to incorporate plants higher up in the setup is to use a background. You can buy cork flats from your local pet store and you can pin plant to em. Another way is to make one using expanding foam, covered with silicone and then coco fiber. There are lots of guides out there on how to do it.

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## Don

I let mine drop to room temp which is 68 to 70. 
You will also notice that your humidity will go up at night once the lighting is off.

They are pretty delicate when they move and can walk across leaves and barely move them.  Mine will sleep or perch on Snake plant and Zebra plant often and both help retain humidity.  They won't give you the sturdy branches but will give alternate things to climb on with some high up branch.

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## Pixidust

An idea I got from another thread, PVC pipe, I filled the end holes with great stuff. Then covered it in silicon and peat. You can cut it to fit any size and it's really cheap to make. Oddly enough with a vine draped around it, it is my frogies fav spot, over
 the expensive pet store stuff I took out.

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## Kay

I did not use the background that came with my terrarium, because I like to be able to see into the terrarium from all sides.  It sits on the snack bar in between my kitchen and dining area.  Do the frogs "need' something so they're not out in the open?  Or are those backgrounds strictly for looks.  I think I can fill up the terrarium with taller plants and vines or branches, without using a background unless it is better for the frogs.

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## Giles

I'd recommend at least a background, that may well be your problem, he doesnt feel safe because its too open for him up top. When i had my trio of whites a few weeks ago, i covered 2 out of the 4 sides until they became more confident, then removed the side piece and now they are fine, they even wait near the door in the evening sometiimes because they know its feeding time  :Smile:  (I use the exo terra background in my viv, and i have no problems with it)

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## Kay

> I'd recommend at least a background, that may well be your problem, he doesnt feel safe because its too open for him up top. When i had my trio of whites a few weeks ago, i covered 2 out of the 4 sides until they became more confident, then removed the side piece and now they are fine, they even wait near the door in the evening sometiimes because they know its feeding time  (I use the exo terra background in my viv, and i have no problems with it)


I think you're correct.  I had no idea they needed that security, but it makes sense.  Then as Dalton suggested I can pin some of the plants to the background and help fill up the top of the terrarium.

I am going to make some changes in the terrarium and then I'll post another picture to see if there are any other suggestions.  I really appreciate all the great suggestions!  :Frog Smile:

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## Treefrognewbie

my frogs hunt for their crickets on the ground, but thats about it. and one time Marvin (my male RETF) slept close to the ground, with his butt in the water.

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## Iceemn360

In my experience the only time my red eyes spend a significant amount of the time on the ground is when they are being kept on the dryer side and are perhaps seeking moisture from the substrate. With higher humidity they go right back to the leaves/ perches/ sides of their vivarium.

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## Kay

> In my experience the only time my red eyes spend a significant amount of the time on the ground is when they are being kept on the dryer side and are perhaps seeking moisture from the substrate. With higher humidity they go right back to the leaves/ perches/ sides of their vivarium.


You're right!  A couple of days ago DonLisk recommended I mist him more, and mist the substrate too.  Ever since I have started that, he's been back up at the top.

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## Treefrognewbie

its only been a couple times. but they always hunt on the ground, since the crickets stay down there.

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## Kay

I tried to use as many of your suggestions as possible in the upgraded terrarium.  I added the background, tall snake plants and I covered a PVC pipe with moss.  I also used the fake jungle vine to get towards the top of the terrarium.  Thanks to all for the suggestions!    My new question:  When I clean the tank, do I have to remove everything?  Do I "unplant" the plants and then replant them after I replace the plantation soil?

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## Poly

No, unplanting the plants is unnecessary. I have a planted Vivarium for my two american toads, and when I clean it, I just remove all loose objects (rocks, logs, etc.) in your it would be vines, branches, etc. and lightly loosen up the soil around the plants with an old fork, clean any fecal matter I may have missed the previous day (I rarely miss it, as it stinks pretty bad, so it's hard to miss  :Stick Out Tongue: ), clean the glass, then rearrange a few things, and your ready to put everything back in.  :Smile: 

~Royce

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## Poly

By the way, your Vivarium looks great! Have you entered it in the "Photo of the month" contest? If not, you should!  :Smile:

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