# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > Beginner Discussion >  Begginer dart frog questions

## Andrew exotics

Hello i was looking to get 1 poison dart frog.Before i begin i wanted to say that im not an idiot when it comes to frogs i can supply a nice heavily planted nice looking vivarium.I was looking to see if any darts would fit in a 5 gallon?Im not into the thumbnail frogs those are just way too tiny.Sorry if i sound like an idiot but are there any really cool dart frogs that i can put in a 5 gallon?(only one frog will be housed in there.Dont really know anything about the frogs so if you can tell me a little bit about them that would be great.-Andrew

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## Lynn

Hi Andrew.
It's small.
Think about , for example, the space the substrate and background will take up.
By the time you're done.... there may be only 3 gallons of actual living space leftover for the frog   :Frown:

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## bill

It's not really about volume (gallons), but territory. There's just not enough floor space to house anything comfortably. Even aerial space is limited for the climbers. 

A 5 gallon would be cool for a mantid species or a tarantula maybe

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## Happy Frog

It just won't work for the long run.  Maybe as a grow-out tank for 1-2 froglets.  Frogs jump around quite a bit.

I've heard of experienced Dart Froggers that keep pairs of Tincs in 10 gallon tanks for years and they do alright, but that's still pushing it.  I have a pair of D. tinctorius "azureus" in a 20 gallon long and they move all over the tank.  Before the 20L I housed them in a 20H.

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## Andrew exotics

Ill just go with my 20 high in a month or two but i just thought about how to keep fruit flies in the enclosure?Ive seen people on youtube with these custom glass top but dont they need to breathe?How can I make a screen top keep in fruit flies?Also can i just buy a culture of fruit flies from petsmart every week or two to feed my frogs?

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## Happy Frog

> Ill just go with my 20 high in a month or two but i just thought about how to keep fruit flies in the enclosure?Ive seen people on youtube with these custom glass top but dont they need to breathe?How can I make a screen top keep in fruit flies?Also can i just buy a culture of fruit flies from petsmart every week or two to feed my frogs?





1.  "Keeping fruit flies in the enclosure"...This seems to be a problem for a lot of people but it's never been one for me.  All you have to do is only feed your frogs the amount of flies they can consume immediately before too many get away.  A few flies running around the enclosure is okay.

2.  As far as frogs needing to breathe - This is asked a lot on DF forums.  Have you ever wondered why dart frog tanks are created with live tropical plants?  Simple science.  Plants take in carbon dioxide and create ???  That, and the two are three times you may open the tank for feeding and misting everyday will create enough air exchange.

3.  You need to learn how to culture fruit flies.  The fruit flies that PetsMart sells are D. hydei and although they are okay for larger and adults frogs, they should not be a staple food source.  Also, the amount of flies in those vials are not enough to feed with.  I myself culture three different types of flies and once every three weeks I buy 500-1000 pinhead crickets and supplement with those.  I also have springtails and isopods running around the tank.


I began studying about Dart Frogs in the late 90's when I was headlong into breeding African Cichlids and Arachnids.  This was also the time when Leucs and Tincs were going for 200-400 dollars apiece. Trust me, you can not do a shake-and-bake job with Dart Frogs.  Although Dart Frogs are hardy, if you don't do it right you will meet with disaster.  When I created my first PdF tank it had been growing in close to three months before I put my first frogs in there.

The best thing to do is this;  get your twenty gallon high.  Learn how to create a proper Dart Frog tank.  Forget about all the fancy shmancy stuff you see or read about.  I have seven PDF tanks and two are Exo Terra's and the rest are standard aquariums.  Take your time learning and don't get so excited that you do an impulse buy and then have a bad experience.

I myself have been wanted to get thumbnails for quite a long time(close to a year) but have held off while studying-up on them so I can decide the best species to get for my ability.

Good luck,

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## Andrew exotics

Thanks for info Bryan it was very straight forward  :Smile: Ill just focus on my tree frogs and make a cool looking viv for them.Ill get into PDFs once i get some more experience with plants and frogs.

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## Happy Frog

> Thanks for info Bryan it was very straight forward Ill just focus on my tree frogs and make a cool looking viv for them.Ill get into PDFs once i get some more experience with plants and frogs.


Don't be disappointed or give up on dart frogs.  If I can do it, so can you.  Years ago when I first started posting questions on the other forum people would tear me a new one for asking simple questions and say things like, "That's been asked before" or, "Have ever considered trying the search feature?" That kind of stuff.

Far too often I've read posts where someone went to a reptile show and impulse buys dart frogs then comes over to a forum and starts asking, "Now what?  What do I feed them?  What is the proper humidity and temperature?". Then a couple of weeks later they post that their dart frogs died or has some ailment or disease...and then asks, "What happened?". I can't even begin too tell you how many times I've encountered these posts.  It's not even just dart frogs, it's snakes, lizards, turtles,(don't even get me started on turtles...). I've actually pulled dying turtles out of the dumpsters behind LPS's and nursed them back to health.  I have seventeen turtles and eight of them are rescues...And yes...!  There are evil people that throw sick and dying animals in dumpsters like they are nothing more than an old broken chair.

Go get your twenty gallon high and start designing it for dart frogs, but do it right.  Take your time and create it in stages like I do.  After it's been planted and has been growing in for at least a month or so, start looking for frogs.  In the meantime, read up on all the species of dart frogs and pick the ones that are best for your experience level.

And always remember;  Frog Forum - Home. "Great advice, friendly people, and lots of frogs!

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deranged chipmunk

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## Lynn

Thank you Bryan  :Smile: 
This is a great, supportive and encouraging reply!!!!
 :Butterfly:

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## Lynn

This is a good thread  :Smile: 

I can't help it !
I'm going to throw _a fly in the ointment_.    _A fruit fly_ 

I have kept tree frogs ........( 2 species) since 2008-9 ish.
I think dart frogs are much easier ! 
This is food for thought  :Smile:   right?

Learn to build, seed the enclosure , be familiar with the species' needs, culture the FFs, and you're set  :Smile: 
They do the rest. 
There is really nothing mysterious about it! 
I believe the 'learning curve' is not as difficult as most are led to believe.

Thoughts ?

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## Alex Shepack

I have to agree with Lynn! Dart Frogs are much, much easier than most anything else.  I've kept amphibians for a while.  When I first started there was a mantra that darts were nearly impossible to keep (particularly feed) and, like Brian said, you had to sell your first born to afford them.  Now the price of the frogs has dropped tremendously (way below most CB treefrogs) and food is easy as pie to culture.  You can buy premade fruit fly media and supplies from almost any frog related vendor.  I find it way easier than having to run to the pet store just to find out they don't have the right size crickets.  Additionally, dart frogs are much more forgiving in terms of habitat conditions.  They can deal with "dirty" habitats.  I have one tank that has been running for several years and the only cleaning it has every gotten is a quick glass wipe down.  They are super hardy and make more satisfying captives than most tree frogs because of their diurnal and somewhat gregarious behavior.  

Cheers!
Alex

PS If you don't want to culture fruit flies you can now sign up for weekly or monthly deliveries.  Pricier but always a possibility!

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deranged chipmunk

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