# Frogs & Toads > Pacman Frogs >  Pacman Frog Too Fat?

## MeTree

Hey guys.

I think my Pacman Frog, Malcolm, is too fat. He is soft and bulgy on the sides. He is as wide, or maybe even wider than he is long. He hasn't eaten anything but worms in the past several days, maybe even a week. This week I moved him to his new 10g tank.

Malcolm ate a Waxworm (before he was hugely fat), and about 3-4 Mealworms this week (I know, they aren't supposed to eat them often, Malcolm won't eat crickets), and also 1 dusted Night Crawler. That is it.

I am ordering "Genuine" Phoenix worms from *josh's frogs*. They should arrive tomorrow or Monday. Are those fine for a staple? I am aware that they are pretty high in calcium. Are they too high, or are they just fine? I don't have any experience with "Genuine" Phoenix worms.

The little guy is SO fat. I am not sure how often he "takes care of important buisness", but I haven't seen any sign of it anywhere in awhile. I think he may be constipated. Is there any kind of laxetive that is safe for my Pacman Frog? There aren't any exotic vets anywhere around this county.

What do you guys think? First of all, does he have some kind of diesase, or is there a diesase I need to look out for? As prepared as I was to care for my Pacman Frog when I got him, I wasn't prepared for diesases. I know nothing. btw, does anyone have a good resource for Pacman Frog diesases?

If you guys could give some imput as to; 
1) why he got so fat in the first place
2) wheather there is a type of "laxative" (if that is the right word) suitable for my Pacman Frog
3) wheather _Genuine_ Phoenix worms are Ok for a staple
4) what diesases are likely to spring up with an obeise Pacman Frog
I would really appreciate it!

Thanks guys! :Big Grin: 

(I can try to get a pic if you guys want. I still have to find my Camera batteries, though)

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## 5280

1) He got fat because they eat a lot and don't move very much. What else do you want me to say??? If you're worried about his weight, feed him less. It won't kill him. Cranwellis are relatively big, fat, powerful guys in the frog world. If you're looking for a small, skinny species you have the wrong frog.

2) Not sure as far as laxatives, the best advice I can give is to soak him regularly in warmish water. 

3) Phoenix worms are awesome, I love feeding them. If you're worried about the calcium, don't coat em. I usually don't.

4) Not sure on many diseases that are brought on by obesity, but deteriating vision is one of them. Heart disease and organs not functioning properly are also problems that occur in obese frogs. Hope this helps

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## MeTree

> 1) He got fat because they eat a lot and don't move very much. What else do you want me to say??? If you're worried about his weight, feed him less. It won't kill him. Cranwellis are relatively big, fat, powerful guys in the frog world. If you're looking for a small, skinny species you have the wrong frog.
> 
> 2) Not sure as far as laxatives, the best advice I can give is to soak him regularly in warmish water. 
> 
> 3) Phoenix worms are awesome, I love feeding them. If you're worried about the calcium, don't coat em. I usually don't.
> 
> 4) Not sure on many diseases that are brought on by obesity, but deteriating vision is one of them. Heart disease and organs not functioning properly are also problems that occur in obese frogs. Hope this helps


Thanks for the reply!

I understand that Pacman Frogs are big and fat. I want Malcolm to grow as big and fat as he can be and still be healthy. I just don't want him to be too fat, understand? No, I am not a skinny frog guy. I like skinny frogs, but I like monster fat frogs alot more. I have the right frog for me. :Smile: 

I guess I will try that warm bath. The temps have been pretty low today because my brother turned the a/c on last night because he was worried about his goldfish getting too hot, and even with the heat pad newly installed in Malcolms tank (4W), it still hasn't hit 80 yet. :Frown: 

I probably won't coat the little buggers with Calcium. I do have a question, though. What do I need to be concerned about when it comes to a Multi-vitamen such as HERPETIVE? For example, if I feed my Pacman too much Calcium, it can develope too many lipids in the cornea of his eyes, and he can go blind. If I feed him too little calcium, he may end up with Metabiolic Bone Diesases, because of the lack of calcium in his bones. What would I see if I gave Malcolm too much Multi-vitamin?

I want to exercise my Pacman Frog more, but I am worried about how stressed it is right now. It is really scared when I look at it. I think he just knows that I am going to pick him up and try to feed him for 20 minutes, or try to get him to exercise for 10 minutes or something. He looks like he is getting pretty stressed. I am pretty sure I handle him too much. I just don't want him to get too fat, or go without food. :Frown:

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## MeTree

Update today. Malcolm ate nothing today. He was exercised for about 5-10 minutes today, and he also took a warm bath for about 20-30 minutes today. He looks abit thinner, and isn't nearly as flabby, tighter skin. Less fat, more muscle I think. He was pretty stressed out today. I feel bad. He faded to a pale green at one point when I think I might have let him got too dry (I always lose the mister). It was too cold at the begining of the day on the cool side (though he didn't spend much time there). The thermometer on the warm side is inaccurate, so I don't know what is was there. Right now he burrowed because it is abit warm for his liking.

Tomorrow, unless the Phoenix worms come in (about a 50/50 chance), I am going to ignore him other than routine misting. I may continue this pattern the next day (assuming the Phoenix worms haven't arrived, as USPS does not deliver on Sunday). I don't want Malcolm to be so stressed, so I am going to be much more careful about how much I handle him.

Any tips on calming a Pacman Frog other than not handling them in the first place?

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## frogmike

If you want to see Malcom become a man, he needs to eat a mouse. You have him used to insects, so you will need to let him get hungry for a week or so. then you will need to purchase a mouse tha is the same length or smaller than Malcom. My frog Cadilac took down his first mouse when he was just under an inch long. The baby mouse had just gotten its eyes open. every care sheet I have ever read says not feed your pacman frog a mouse more than once every 14 days. My frogs would eat ME if I did that. Try like 1 to 3 mice a week with calcium covered bugs between meals. :AR15:

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## Heythatsmychair

Is your frog still sick?

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## DVirginiana

Umm... In response to the above comment, if you are worried about your frog's weight, the worst thing you could do for it is begin feeding it mice twice a week.  Mice (and some types of fish) are very high in fat content and only need to be given once or twice a month.  Also, once your frog is large enough to begin eating mice, you no longer need to dust the crickets/worms you use as between-meal snacks, as your frog should be getting all the calcium it needs from the bones of these animals.

Also, I don't know of a way to calm the frog other than just not handling it.  You could try misting it regularly if you really want to do something (mine always seems more alert after misting).

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## artes

Do you actually need to feed them mice at all?  I was under the impression you didn't have to.

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## DVirginiana

Nah, they can go their whole life eating just crickets and nightcrawlers if you don't want to feed them mice.  The only issues with this are that they need to be calcium dusted if your frog isn't eating anything with bones, and when they get big they'll be eating ALOT of bugs if that's all they're eating, so lots of people supplement with pinkies or fish.

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## artes

Ok.  I could handle fish, but I've owned way too many pet rodents in my lifetime to ever see them as yums.  Although if Toadstool absolutely needed them, I'd suck it up.

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## artes

> Hey guys.
>  If you guys could give some imput as to; 
> 1) why he got so fat in the first place
> 2) wheather there is a type of "laxative" (if that is the right word) suitable for my Pacman Frog
> 3) wheather _Genuine_ Phoenix worms are Ok for a staple
> 4) what diesases are likely to spring up with an obeise Pacman Frog
> I would really appreciate it!
> 
> Thanks guys!
> ...


Sorry, got distracted by mice. -_-
1) They're lazy bums who enjoy eating.  It happens.  As long as he can still hop without needing a wheelchair, he is probably fine.  :Smile: 
2) I've heard of people using mineral oil, but personally I would just give warm baths.
3) Well, not for a human diet.  :Wink: 
4) Unless he can't hop without you hearing cracking noises (his bones breaking), I wouldn't worry too much about diseases.

As for the stress, I would feed him in his actual home, and only take out for exercises.  I exercise mine three times a week, and if he is like, trying to break down the glass to get away from me, I skip that day.  Eventually he'll get used to being handled and quit stressing out.  :Frog Smile:

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## spazzum

besides putting your frog on a diet my friend and I exercise our frogs. yah i know it sounds wrong but we do touch them.. pretty much play with them. We use a small room with easy to clean floors(poop will happen :P) and we make lots of ramps and things to climb through and yes we do disinfect everything xD we cover everything in water so that the frogs skin doesn't get irritated and we set a bowl of water in the middle of the room so its easy for them to get to. we pick up as many frogs as we can and try to get them to balance on our arms and we set tree frogs up on the walls so they have to climb down themself we put frogs inside of logs with worms on one side so they have to crawl for their food and we have glass sheets that we dunk in water and put a frog on and tilt the glass so they have to climb up the glass to stay on top. The water frogs are a little different... for them we drop tubes in their tank that they can swim through and tiny hoops they can go through. Once i even did a circus act with on of my white tree frogs. I made a duck tape tie and tied it on his head with this rubbery wet stuff that doesn't hurt frogs. I put my finger on one side of a hoop and he would jump through. I held my finger in the sky and he would jump onto it. i put him on my shoulder and walked around and he didnt move an inch. Suprisingly you can actualy train frogs. They don't ever get what you want them to do and they're not like dogs at all. I baited my fringer with what looked like a worm and the frog would go after it. Now the frog will go after my finger without the bait. Most people tell you not to handle your frog so not everyone should do this but if your a cautios and are good at getting things clean then you could probaly do this.

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## Froggiefressh

> besides putting your frog on a diet my friend and I exercise our frogs. yah i know it sounds wrong but we do touch them.. pretty much play with them. We use a small room with easy to clean floors(poop will happen :P) and we make lots of ramps and things to climb through and yes we do disinfect everything xD we cover everything in water so that the frogs skin doesn't get irritated and we set a bowl of water in the middle of the room so its easy for them to get to. we pick up as many frogs as we can and try to get them to balance on our arms and we set tree frogs up on the walls so they have to climb down themself we put frogs inside of logs with worms on one side so they have to crawl for their food and we have glass sheets that we dunk in water and put a frog on and tilt the glass so they have to climb up the glass to stay on top. The water frogs are a little different... for them we drop tubes in their tank that they can swim through and tiny hoops they can go through. Once i even did a circus act with on of my white tree frogs. I made a duck tape tie and tied it on his head with this rubbery wet stuff that doesn't hurt frogs. I put my finger on one side of a hoop and he would jump through. I held my finger in the sky and he would jump onto it. i put him on my shoulder and walked around and he didnt move an inch. Suprisingly you can actualy train frogs. They don't ever get what you want them to do and they're not like dogs at all. I baited my fringer with what looked like a worm and the frog would go after it. Now the frog will go after my finger without the bait. Most people tell you not to handle your frog so not everyone should do this but if your a cautios and are good at getting things clean then you could probaly do this.


I'm not trolling or trying to put you down, but I would never do this. First off covering everything in water is not disinfecting anything. If they're any chemicals on the floor or on the wall or even on the "ramps" and what not, it will be absorbed through your frog's skin. Even handling your frogs without gloves poses a big health risk to the animal. Even the most cautious people cannot get rid of harmful substances. In my opinion if my cranwelli or any other frog needs exercise they will exercise themselves. Exercising your frogs like this will probably do nothing for them, but shorten there lives. Frogs are observational animals only besides using gloves, but why even do that if you don't have too? You're only causing more stress which will ultimately lead to death. If that doesn't bother you, then you should not be keeping frogs. Once again I'm not trying to be that guy who has to put his two cents in, but I felt this is needed for you and future frog keepers!

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## DVirginiana

Spazzum, on a completely non-frog-related note, the thread you replied to is very old.  I noticed you're new, so if you want to start a new thread with its own title you will probably get more responses and less confusion than posting on an old one   :Smile: 

I agree with pretty much everything Greg said.  Though, if you are not handling a frog for very long, just washing your hands without soap is generally okay, they really shouldn't be handled often.  There is nothing wrong with adding enrichment items to your frogs' habitats (like putting tubes in an aquatic frog's enclosure), but taking them out and handling them for extended periods (especially frogs like pacmans that prefer to stay burrowed and still most of the time, and aren't designed to hold onto things or climb) will stress them out.  I couldn't tell if you were just using water or if you meant you used disinfectant on the items you put your frogs on, but I would advise against using any sort of disinfectant on anything your frogs touch.  Even very small amounts of most household cleaners can kill a frog if they come into contact with it.  One other thing to look out for is that exposure to water that hasn't been dechlorinated and deaminated can harm frogs as well (you didn't mention whether the water you were using was treated or not).  
There are safer ways to interact with your frogs that don't pose as much of a risk to them; better safe than sorry!

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## Colleen/Jerrod

You guys are about to open up an old wound. Malcolm. the frog in question here in this thread. passed away suddenly nearly a year ago. I do not think it is a good idea to revive. this thread. I realize that none of you probably know, but I thought I should let you know. MeTree was quite upset. this is definetly. one that should be let be.

Malcolm wasn't. fat at all he looked perfectly healthy when he passed. :Frown:

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## spazzum

Our frogs aren't pets... they're circus frogs =.= and yes i dechlorinate the water and yes the room is tottaly chemical free the floor is all dirt and there are hiding places with fake and real trees and plants.

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## danhm87

Been Following you for some time nao Griff... I got a baby pacman frog about 2 1/2 weeks ago from petco and had no idea what i got myself into... (as i live in TN where it is dry and cold)

However, with your advice and reading almost ALL your posts...ahaha... I've come to a comfortable place with my frog... He didnt eat the first week at all cause i couldnt keep the HUM and TEMP high enough... but after "borrowing" a humidifier and 2 UTH from Petco and a bunch of other stuff I got the frog eating regularly and seems to be happy... Jumps around a lot when he isnt burrowed up all snuggly like..

However, I do have some problems now... 

1) I am afraid I feed him too much mealworms... I have an abundance and running low on crickets... also he friggin loves them.... but is he getting too much fat in his diet?
2) I didnt have any more spring water so i had to fill the Humidifier last night with regular tap water... however i cant use the dechlorinator for it as it is slimy and will f*** up my very expensive humidifier (ultrasonic)... You get where with is going... "oh **** is all that chlorine getting into the mist?) I am very scared nao

and 

3)I want to make my pacman frog a killer... Should i exercise him to make him more beast? how do i go about doing that? Do you handle your frogs a lot to get them used to you?


Oh yea, Temps are perfect (80 at night and 83-85 in day) and humidity stays at 80% as i have a timer tweaked to my humidifier. Coco-fiber-ecoearth with some live plants and a few water dishes...
Feel like the setup is good but need help with finer questions.. mainly about the Humidifier.


Once again thank you so much for your massive contribution to the internet community of Frog lovers

Dr. Okami

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Been Following you for some time nao Griff... I got a baby pacman frog about 2 1/2 weeks ago from petco and had no idea what i got myself into... (as i live in TN where it is dry and cold)
> 
> However, with your advice and reading almost ALL your posts...ahaha... I've come to a comfortable place with my frog... He didnt eat the first week at all cause i couldnt keep the HUM and TEMP high enough... but after "borrowing" a humidifier and 2 UTH from Petco and a bunch of other stuff I got the frog eating regularly and seems to be happy... Jumps around a lot when he isnt burrowed up all snuggly like..
> 
> However, I do have some problems now... 
> 
> 1) I am afraid I feed him too much mealworms... I have an abundance and running low on crickets... also he friggin loves them.... but is he getting too much fat in his diet?
> 2) I didnt have any more spring water so i had to fill the Humidifier last night with regular tap water... however i cant use the dechlorinator for it as it is slimy and will f*** up my very expensive humidifier (ultrasonic)... You get where with is going... "oh **** is all that chlorine getting into the mist?) I am very scared nao
> 
> ...


Hello Doc  :Smile: 

Welcome to Frog Forum.

First ill address the Mealworms. Mealworms are dangerous to feed to your Pacman in large amounts. Their exoskeleton is comprised of a chitin that is difficult to digest and can cause an impaction(severe constipation) which can lead to death. They aren't very fattening so no worries there. Get some night crawlers and offer appropriately sized pieces or if your frog is large enough whole worms.

How large is your frog SVL(Snout to Vent Length)?

Second about the Humidifier. Yes the chlorine is coming out into the mist. You'll need to go buy some distilled water immediately and change out that water. Spring water is fine too. Distilled can be used in the humidifier, but be sure to use the spring water in his water dishes. DO NOT DISTILLED WATER OR UNTREATED TAP WATER IN HIS WATER DISHES OR TO EXPAND HIS SUBSTRATE.

Third each individual frog is different. Some will grow larger than others and proper nutrition and supplements assist in giving your frog what it needs to reach full potential. I'm not one for molding them into giant monster frogs. I offer what they need to be healthy and happy. Their body and genetics do the rest. 

Do you use a multivitamin supplement powder or Calcium powder with Vitamin D3?

Handling is usually frowned upon and I only do so when necessary. Enclosure cleaning, bathing, force feeding(when they're sick and unable to feed themselves), and occasionally for photos. I use tank cleaning and bathing for an opportunity for photos because they're already out and it kills two birds with one stone and thus causes less stress. These frogs become stressed very easily and you must do your best to keep stress levels as low as possible.

Just for reference this is hijacking and reviving and old thread. If you have any further questions will you please start a new thread in this area of the forum for me to address these questions.

Thank you  :Smile:

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## danhm87

> Hello Doc 
> 
> Welcome to Frog Forum.
> 
> First ill address the Mealworms. Mealworms are dangerous to feed to your Pacman in large amounts. Their exoskeleton is comprised of a chitin that is difficult to digest and can cause an impaction(severe constipation) which can lead to death. They aren't very fattening so no worries there. Get some night crawlers and offer appropriately sized pieces or if your frog is large enough whole worms.
> 
> How large is your frog SVL(Snout to Vent Length)?
> 
> Second about the Humidifier. Yes the chlorine is coming out into the mist. You'll need to go buy some distilled water immediately and change out that water. Spring water is fine too. Distilled can be used in the humidifier, but be sure to use the spring water in his water dishes. DO NOT DISTILLED WATER OR UNTREATED TAP WATER IN HIS WATER DISHES OR TO EXPAND HIS SUBSTRATE.
> ...



Your so Boss man... yea i got a multivitamin dust and my frog is around 2 1/2 inches  STV... tiny little guy .. probably a male... THANK you SOO much for your speedy reply i went out right away and got some distilled water... 

Dr. Okami

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## Colleen/Jerrod

> Your so Boss man... yea i got a multivitamin dust and my frog is around 2 1/2 inches  STV... tiny little guy .. probably a male... THANK you SOO much for your speedy reply i went out right away and got some distilled water... 
> 
> Dr. Okami


You're welcome. The distilled water will also help maintain the life of your humidifier by not leaving and mineral deposits behind. This keeps the condenser clean and running normally.

EDIT; You're also going to need that calcium powder I mentioned. These frogs need insane amounts of calcium so its a good idea to have a regular calcium powder and a calcium powder that contains Vitamin D3 on hand.

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## danhm87

Awesome... ill go steal it from petco today

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