# Frogs & Toads > Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae) > Breeding, Eggs, Tadpoles, etc >  I seem to be a little confused on the grow out stage

## bucknetbucky

Hey everyone .. I have a question regarding the grow out stage for my dart tadpoles. They are in containers on a angle as they have all arms and legs. I was under the impression that they would climb out with their tales but it seems to me that they have started to absorb them already and they have not left the water. I am also a little worried as their front arms seem really fragile and small.

Should I be concerned? This is my first go with tadpoles.

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## Lynn

What species ?

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## bucknetbucky

They are Dendrobates  auratus ... I have moved them now out of the containers and into a large tub that has water and land in it. As soon as I did that one of them went right to the land part and sat there for a bit.

Question number 2 .... I have read that I should not feed them at this point, is that true?

Thank You.

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## Lynn

Sprigtails should be available
A few dusted drosophila melanogaster fruit flies as well. A few - you  don't want them walking all over the froglet.
The 'land' are can be as  simple as very ! damp white pater towels. ( distilled water ) 
If you think he was 'frightened' out of the water you could put him back by the edge just in case, or into  very, very shallow water so he can keep his head out of the water now that he is out.
It's very important to be sure the stay hydrated...especially the next few days .

I will come back and add a photo as soon as I can.....please stand by _____________

ie I have had tads that came oow , sort of, accidently
I tip their glass containers when they look to be 'almost ready' to make their debut

Keep us posted.

 :Butterfly:

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## bucknetbucky

OK thank you for the great advice ... I unfortunately have to say that they both have SLS and will be euthanized  :Frown:  .. If anyone can help me with that process and the proper way to execute that it would be a great help as I don't want to have them suffer anymore than they are. ......... On a brighter note. I now have 5 tadpoles in my water area in the tank. Should I remove them or leave them be and let life take its course? There are 3 adults in there right now. Thank You for all your excellent help it is greatly appreciated.

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## Paul

Sorry to hear that. I have heard of a few cases of SLS that has been reversed by super loading them with Caldium, but that doesn't always work. One of the main causes of SLS is under supplemented parents. Add Vit A (Repashey Has one) 2 times a month to your dusting rotation and you will end up with healthier tadpoles and healthier froglets. 

If you opt to Euthanize them you can us Neosporin with Pain killer in it and apply to their belly. This is the most humane way I know to do it.

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## Lynn

Kevin,

I'm jealous of your tadpoles !

I have been doing some research, personally, about this species.
I have a mixed sexed group ( 4 adults) in a , heavily planted, good size enclosure w/out a water area. 
They are very secretive. I hear calling but have not seen tadpoles. They DO NOT like there tank messed with.
If they get stressed they will try to bury themselves in the substrate.  :Frown: 

_Should I remove them or leave them be and let life take its course? There are 3 adults in there right now. 
Thank You for all your excellent help it is greatly appreciated._ 

The parents are 'done'. This is your choice. 
You can purchase tadpole food and make tadpole water for them. 
Or.... you can feed them tadpole food there / in the parental enclosure.

Food for thought ( haha)  Tadpoles (sort of) fall into 3 categories:
1) Ones that have ‘strong’ beaks/mouths. These are carnivorous. In the wild they will feed on tiny insect larvae and other tadpoles. 
2) those w smaller mouths feed on debris and algae. 
3) those that are egg feeders ie such as O pumilo which must be fed with unfertilized eggs by the parent female to complete their development.

Metamorphosis takes about 2 -3 months. There is tremendous variation in this time period ( lots of variables). 
Dorsal coloration will usually begin when you’re able to see their tiny rear limbs.
Newly morphed froglets need to be fed sprigtails (Collembola). 
Becoming proficient at keeping springtail cultures is very important if there are plans to rear tads.

Interestingly, studies have shown that a constant and adequate food source and plenty of space results in a longer time to metamorphose which results in stronger , larger, froglets.
So, you don't want to rush this.  I believe that D auratus will metamorphose in 9 to 14 weeks. 
Regarding your tads, they may not have SLS but may have developed too fast resulting in a weak froglet that fails to thrive??? Don't know. 
Right off hand, I’m not sure if sibling auratus tadpoles are cannibalistic.
However, unrelated siblings ( tads from different clutches) are more prone to cannibalistic. 

Once they have front legs the tadpoles can be removed to larger containers. Commonly used containers are plastic shoe or sweater boxes. 
These can be sloped to create a gradual change in the water depth water to ---->  ‘dry land’.
As they develop, create a grow-out enclosure with mixed substrate, leaf litter and lots of springtails.
I believe D auratus will produce all year round, but will have smaller clutches in the warmer months.

Hope that helps.
 :Butterfly:

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## bucknetbucky

Paul and Lynn ... Thank you for the replies and all the information. The froglets were purchased as tadpoles so I have no idea what the parents were like or where they came from. I know that it was a chance when I got them so as upsetting as it is I knew there could have been issues from the start. However the tads that I have now are all from my adults that I care for and as far as I know they should be healty as I feed every day and dust likely more often then I should. I primarily feed fruit flies then throw in crickets for a treat. I do however need to find springtales. Unfortunately the pet stores around me do not have any  :Frown:  ... I will get some pics and post both of the froglets and the tads in the enclosure so that you can get a better idea what I am looking at. Thank you again.

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## Lija

Springtails or anything else dart frog related is definitely not a problem in ontario, understory inc is there, dart frog inc is there, bunch of other people who have darts and everybody will have springs for sale, look on kijiji, any other classifed, im sure you  will find somebody.

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## bill

> The froglets were purchased as tadpoles so I have no idea what the parents were like or where they came from. I know that it was a chance when I got them so as upsetting as it is I knew there could have been issues from the start.


i am coming in a bit late here, but this threw up a red flag for me. where did the tads come from? a local breeder or an online company?

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## bucknetbucky

> i am coming in a bit late here, but this threw up a red flag for me. where did the tads come from? a local breeder or an online company?


The tads came from a local store. I have made them aware of my situation and they are going to investigate others. They have been nothing but supportive and helpful given the situation so I am not going to bash them or mention names. 

I have decided to remove he tads from the enclosure as they would quickly out grow the space. 

I again would like to thank everyone as this was an unexpected venture for me but I want to make sure they all get the best care.

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## bill

Oh, no need for bashing. I'm not a fan of that to begin with. But some vendors who sell dart tads, are selling hybrid tads/frogs. And hybrids breeding could possibly cause the issues you are having. That was why it tossed up the red flag for me. 


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

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## bucknetbucky

> Oh, no need for bashing. I'm not a fan of that to begin with. But some vendors who sell dart tads, are selling hybrid tads/frogs. And hybrids breeding could possibly cause the issues you are having. That was why it tossed up the red flag for me.


Ahhh OK I have read that too and I can say that they did confirm that they were bread from matching parents. I am going to post a photo later I just have to get them off my phone and shrink them.

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## bucknetbucky

> Springtails or anything else dart frog related is definitely not a problem in ontario, understory inc is there, dart frog inc is there, bunch of other people who have darts and everybody will have springs for sale, look on kijiji, any other classifed, im sure you  will find somebody.


I got in touch with understory and I will be getting all I need in the next few days if not tomorrow. Thank You very much!!!

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## Paul

Breeding springtails is super easy. Put them in a plastic tub with some herpetological grade charcoal and about 1" of water. Add Springtails and feed them every couple days. In 30 days you will see your first population boom. sometime after that you can setup a 2nd culture and in 30 days both cultures will boom and you can split them both  :Smile: 


Here are my springtail cultures  :Smile:  Can never have to many when expecting froglets  :Smile:

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## bucknetbucky

> Breeding springtails is super easy. Put them in a plastic tub with some herpetological grade charcoal and about 1" of water. Add Springtails and feed them every couple days. In 30 days you will see your first population boom. sometime after that you can setup a 2nd culture and in 30 days both cultures will boom and you can split them both 
> 
> 
> Here are my springtail cultures  Can never have to many when expecting froglets



Could you please pm me with the steps for the springtales and maybe some pics of the setup it would be helpful. Thank you

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## Paul

I will get something together today. I don't have any pics of the setup process, but I can open one up and snap a picture of the inside. It is really a very basic very simple setup to keep springtails.

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## Paul

In fact. Here, this is far better than I could whip up in a PM. 

New England Herpetoculture LLC - Springtail Care

You can also buy breeding kits from them for Springtails.

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