heating methods for 18x18x24 - 2 white's treefrogs

[Bolisnide]

You all have been very helpful a few weeks ago on advising a larger terrarium for my white's tree frogs and I have recently upgraded to an 18x18x24 exoterra terrarium.
I am really having an issue with keeping the enclosure at an appropriate temp. as my house is literally 60 degrees at night. I do have an 8x18 UTH mounted on the side of the tank, but need more heat! Currently the temps are about 72 during the day and 68 at night with the current set up. And they do not like the 50W red night bulb at all... in fact, it doesn't even give off enough heat anyway. I was advised at PetSmart to get a ceramic heat emitter of 150 watts. Which is what I came home with.... but, I came across a thread started several months (years?) ago about the same issue, but didn't find what had actually worked for this person and what she had finally decided to use. And also found that many here felt ceramic heat emitters were no good for frogs.
I was curious to know what recommendations you all would give after your own experiences. I don't want to cook my frogs!
Thank you for your time,
Lindsey

[nagol]

Hey Lindsey,
I've kept whites for years - up to 5 at one time in a very large tank - so I should be able to help a bit.

You're right - your day time temp is a little too low. Whites can easily handle temps in the mid to high 80s.

Night time temp isn't bad. You may just want to try a blue night bulb instead of a red. They sometimes work better.

For day time heat, I've only ever used 60W incandescent household bulbs - not the new energy efficient ones, the old, heat emitting ones.
Multiple bulbs or higher wattage if the tank was really big, but that was it.

And though I've never personally used the ceramic heat emitters before, I hear they work very well.
To test, (if you can) set the ceramic heater up away from the tank, put a temp gauge beneath it and watch how hot it gets. If it's a good temp, use it in your tank.
You can do this with higher wattage light bulbs as well.

Hope that helps.
-ry

[Kristen87]

Insulating one or more of the walls would help retain the heat too e.g. a fake rock background internally that the frogs can also cling to, or even just some styrofoam taped to the outside of the back wall if you don't want to take up that much space internally.

[mim]

yeh iv done as kristen said. u can use cardboard aswell to stop the heat escaping. i found that wen my whites were really small they kept escapin down the back of the fake background so id watch out if theyre little.

[Mentat]

I use a 100W ceramic type heat emitter to warm a 20 gal. ABF tank and it does a good job. Do make sure you have a dimmer (my Fluker's Dome came with it) or a rheostat controller to adjust the energy output as required. Insulating sides will help; but most heat escape enclosures through the top. Might consider ways to diminish heat loss there too.

[sajane]

if you rest a dome fixture on the screen top, with a 40 or 60 watt bulb in it. do you have to worry about how hot it is directly under the bulb ? its the only way to heat the lower level and the frogs seem to sit right under it

[Bolisnide]

Thank you all for your input!

Nagol, your idea to test was a great one! The 150 watt ceramic heat emitter gets very hot, so I have suspended the bulb about 6 inches above the screen of the vivarium and was able to get the night time temp to about 74 and during the day at about 85. The frogs were more active last night, so I think they're happy to have more warmth. But, the downside to this heating method is the humidity drops fast. So I'll need to be more diligent with misting, which is fine because I work from home.

Kristen and mim, I do have and use a styrofoam background that came with the enclosure, but I think insulating the 2 sides of the tank is also a great idea. I am going to get my husband to fit cardboard to the sides, so that will also help I'm sure. Thanks for your input.

Carlos, I do have a thermostat/controller that I've hooked the lamp into, so if the tank gets above the set temperature it turns off. I wouldn't recommend anyone use one of these ceramic heat emitters without one as they do get so hot, so it's definitely a very important safety feature to have in conjunction with the bulb.

Sajane, I did rest a dome directly on the screen top previously when I was using a 50 watt red incandescent and never had a problem... But my frogs hate the light at night, so didn't use it unless I felt it was absolutely necessary. However, I would never rest a dome with a ceramic heat emitter in it directly on the screen top, because like I said it does get really hot and could possibly burn your frogs.... They make stands you can buy that suspend the bulb at the height you want above the vivarium, which is what I am now using and i'm very happy I invested in it.

Thank you everyone for your help!!!

[Kristen87]

For the humidity, do you have a water source that's big enough for a filter or just a little bowl? If its big enough for a filter, you could get a little one with a spray bar and have the spray bar above the water level and aim it against the wall to raise humidity. Just an idea anyway. Otherwise have fun with your constant misting! haha :P There's always the option of a misting machine but I guess if you work from home that's a bit of an unnecessary expense. Live plants help maintain humidity too but you'd want to be careful there's no pesticides used on them. But at least you've sorted the heating problem which was probably your main concern

[Bolisnide]

For the humidity, do you have a water source that's big enough for a filter or just a little bowl? If its big enough for a filter, you could get a little one with a spray bar and have the spray bar above the water level and aim it against the wall to raise humidity. Just an idea anyway. Otherwise have fun with your constant misting! haha :P There's always the option of a misting machine but I guess if you work from home that's a bit of an unnecessary expense. Live plants help maintain humidity too but you'd want to be careful there's no pesticides used on them. But at least you've sorted the heating problem which was probably your main concern

Yeah, it's not very practical to mist 4-5 times per day if I wish to have a life outside my frogs!
I do have lots of live plants in there...
I just have a large shallow dish at the bottom of the enclosure, so that spray bar may not work for me.
Do you have any experience with the foggers? Is that a misting machine or just a humidifier? Or are they the same thing?

[Mentat]

... I am going to get my husband to fit cardboard to the sides, so that will also help I'm sure...

Home Depot sells 1/4 in. thick insulating sheets that have been successfully used by fish keepers to insulate aquarium sides and probably are more efficient than cardboard. Imagine other hardware stores (Lowe's, etc.) offer them too.

I have gotten good results using common kitchen's plastic wrap to reduce moisture lost and heat escaping my screen tops. Also, was thinking to test the very small bubble wrap sold at packaging stations and see if I got better results covering screen open areas with it. Good luck Lindsey!