I think my frog has Chytrid, what can I do?

[catsta]

I've had my Pacman frog for about a year and a half, the previous owner had traded him in at the store so I don't know how old he is. I've had no problems in that time period until just recently.

Last Thursday I found my Pacman frog upside down in the morning, his legs stretched out, not moving. I've read about this before and it seems to be a sign of a chytrid infection. I flipped him right-side up and later that day went looking for Lamisil AT only to find that it's prescription only in my country so I have no means to get any.

The last time he ate was the week prior when I gave him about 20 crickets over the course of the week. Since then he has lost weight and has refused to eat. I've left him in a smaller quarantine tank for several hours at a time with one to two crickets but he didn't show any interest. Feeding with tongs hasn't worked either, anytime I hold a cricket for him he just closes his eyes.

Other things I have noticed are that his underside is reddish where the skin is white, he shed on Thursday and the skin was dark colored and he wasn't able to get it off himself so I had to help, he's been laying flat against the floor of the quarantine tank, and he has moved very little in the past few days.

I've looked for alternatives to Lamisil but haven't found any, is it the only option for treatment? Is there anything else I can do for him?

[DVirginiana]

You will probably have to go to a vet if you can't access lamisil over the counter. Even if you don't have a herp vet near you, if you know what the problem is and take the frog in many vets will order antibiotics/antifunals/whatever for you. Just make sure you make it clear that you know they aren't specialists and are willing to take the risk. I ran into a similar situation with my turtle awhile back; I knew what I needed to treat the infection, but the only way to get my hands on it was to go through my vet who had never treated any sort of herp before.

There may be another home treatment for chytrid, but I haven't heard of it.

[catsta]

You will probably have to go to a vet if you can't access lamisil over the counter. Even if you don't have a herp vet near you, if you know what the problem is and take the frog in many vets will order antibiotics/antifunals/whatever for you. Just make sure you make it clear that you know they aren't specialists and are willing to take the risk. I ran into a similar situation with my turtle awhile back; I knew what I needed to treat the infection, but the only way to get my hands on it was to go through my vet who had never treated any sort of herp before.

There may be another home treatment for chytrid, but I haven't heard of it.

Thank you for the response. There are no herp vets nearby and when I called a vet office they told me they only treat cats and dogs, I'm going to try this though and hopefully it will work.

[Namio]

Meanwhile, raise the temperature of your frog's enclsure to 30 degree Celcius. Chytrid grows best between 17-24 degree C, and their growth ceases around 29 and will start dying above 30 degree Celcius. In a lab experiment, constant temperature of 30 degree C for 8 straight days can kill chytrid. Not saying you should do that because it's too hot for your frog for too long, but raising the temperature will definitely stunt chytrid growth while you seek solution to saving your frog.

[Ra]

Raising the temperature that high for 8 days will stress your frog out, and it will need extra special care in recovery, but it wont kill it. Just make sure the tank doesnt dry out at all. Keep the humidity high
Chytrid on the other hand, will definately kill your frog.

I would say just go to a vet. If not, then you have to risk taking a **** shoot and your frog dies anyway, or you get lucky and he gets better.

[bobrez]

How to find a vet Start Here Arav – Find a Vet

[GrifTheGreat]

Raising the temperature that high for 8 days will stress your frog out, and it will need extra special care in recovery, but it wont kill it. Just make sure the tank doesnt dry out at all. Keep the humidity high
Chytrid on the other hand, will definately kill your frog.

I would say just go to a vet. If not, then you have to risk taking a **** shoot and your frog dies anyway, or you get lucky and he gets better.

Agreed. Heat stress is extremely dangerous. Kidney Failure is usually the result of prolonged exposure to temps that are much too high. It is advised to never perform the heat treatment on frogs because they can't handle it and WILL die. There are very few amphibians that can survive this treatment and those are Salamanders, but not all salamanders will survive it either.

Your best shot is to try and get a vet to prescribe the Lamisil AT. It must be a spray and not a cream.

When you get the Lamisil AT make a Luke warm bath of de-chlorinated water 200 millilieters and spray ten pumps into the water soak the frog in this solution for 5 minutes per day for 10 days. While the treatment is being performed over these 10 days the frog must be in a hospital setup with nothing but moist paper towels as substrate and a water dish. You can provide hides for security, but they must be easily cleaned so plastic hides would be preferable or fake plants. Everyday while the frog is soaking clean and disinfect the hospital setup and replace the moist paper towels with new ones. YOU MUST PERFORM THESE DUTIES EVERYDAY FOR THE ENTIRE 10 DAYS.

Please note that this treatment is highly stressful on the frog, but does work and eliminates Chytrid fungus. You must throw everything away that your frog has come into contact with prior to treatment. incinerating any furniture, fake plants, hides, substrate, etc. This helps to prevent future infection from the fungus. Also note that there is no proof that this treatment is sideaffect free so keep a close eye on your frog while treating it.

Keep us posted.

[Namio]

You must throw everything away that your frog has come into contact with prior to treatment. incinerating any furniture, fake plants, hides, substrate, etc. This helps to prevent future infection from the fungus. Also note that there is no proof that this treatment is sideaffect free so keep a close eye on your frog while treating it.

Hey Grif actually it's not necessary to throw away the plastic decor in the cage, since they usually cost people quite a few bucks I would just soak them in 1:10 diluted bleach solution for 30 minutes then complete drying will get rid of any chytrid left attaching to the decor. Substrate I will most definitely discard no questions asked. EcoEarth is cheap enough to replace.

Heat stress is extremely dangerous. Kidney Failure is usually the result of prolonged exposure to temps that are much too high. It is advised to never perform the heat treatment on frogs because they can't handle it and WILL die.

By the way, I would like to clarify that 30 degree C is about 88 F, which actually probably won't cause heat stress in horned frogs if exposed about a week. Fortunately that these frogs are from warmer area of the world which are able to handle higher temp better than say frogs from the temperate zone.

Your best shot is to try and get a vet to prescribe the Lamisil AT. It must be a spray and not a cream.

When you get the Lamisil AT make a Luke warm bath of de-chlorinated water 200 millilieters and spray ten pumps into the water soak the frog in this solution for 5 minutes per day for 10 days. While the treatment is being performed over these 10 days the frog must be in a hospital setup with nothing but moist paper towels as substrate and a water dish. You can provide hides for security, but they must be easily cleaned so plastic hides would be preferable or fake plants. Everyday while the frog is soaking clean and disinfect the hospital setup and replace the moist paper towels with new ones. YOU MUST PERFORM THESE DUTIES EVERYDAY FOR THE ENTIRE 10 DAYS.

casta, I would do what Grif had recommended. Get a prescription of Lamisil AT asap and perform the treatment to your frog immediately.

[catsta]

I wanted to say thank you to everyone who posted. I'm going to follow this advice and hopefully he will pull through.

[GrifTheGreat]

Namio it is recommended to not use bleach on plastics. That's why you throw them away. I've read this many times.

88° For a prolonged period can be extremely detrimental and the temp that kills Chytrid is 90° for 6 hours straight which will kill the frog. What you're not realizing is that they may be from these hot areas, BUT they thermoregulate by burrowing down deep into the moist cool soil so they are never truly exposed to these temps for any prolonged period.

[Ra]

their micro niche in the enviroment is typically not as hot as the rest of the jungle. Consider the air temperatures on a hot day on the street as opposed to being in the forest, or a parking ramp.

[GrifTheGreat]

their micro niche in the enviroment is typically not as hot as the rest of the jungle. Consider the air temperatures on a hot day on the street as opposed to being in the forest, or a parking ramp.

Exactly!!

[Ra]

ANd like Griff said, if they get too hot, down they go. Thats why heat sources placed beneath the terrarium is a no no for these guys. Unlike many reptiles, which sit on a hot surface to heat up or under the sun, a tropical frog will typically be more hard wired to finding ways to cool down.

[Namio]

Namio it is recommended to not use bleach on plastics. That's why you throw them away. I've read this many times.

Thanks for the warning. Bleach do tend to destroy things, but if that's the case then complete desiccation or drying of the plastic decor will kill chytrid just fine. Chytrid, despite being a virulent pathogen, is actually quite wimpy. Complete drying for a few days will kill it. No chance.

88° For a prolonged period can be extremely detrimental and the temp that kills Chytrid is 90° for 6 hours straight which will kill the frog. What you're not realizing is that they may be from these hot areas, BUT they thermoregulate by burrowing down deep into the moist cool soil so they are never truly exposed to these temps for any prolonged period

I hate to be defensive but I said to increase temperature to stunt chytrid growth while seeking treatment, not to use heat treatment to cure chytrid. Chytrid grows fastest under 25 C and the frog may die before casta even got lamasil AT. My bad on the rough estimation of temperature conversion, 30 degree C is actually 86 F. Chytrid growth stops at 29 degree C and any temperature above will kill it, just higher the temperature, the faster chytrid dies. It does not necessarily have to be 90 F for 6 hours.

[GrifTheGreat]

Thanks for the warning. Bleach do tend to destroy things, but if that's the case then complete desiccation or drying of the plastic decor will kill chytrid just fine. Chytrid, despite being a virulent pathogen, is actually quite wimpy. Complete drying for a few days will kill it. No chance.



I hate to be defensive but I said to increase temperature to stunt chytrid growth while seeking treatment, not to use heat treatment to cure chytrid. Chytrid grows fastest under 25 C and the frog may die before casta even got lamasil AT. My bad on the rough estimation of temperature conversion, 30 degree C is actually 86 F. Chytrid growth stops at 29 degree C and any temperature above will kill it, just higher the temperature, the faster chytrid dies. It does not necessarily have to be 90 F for 6 hours.

Not true and not worth the risk. Drying plastic is not going to kill it. Spores go into a sort of dormancy period when dry and just because it it stops growing doesn't mean it will die off. Fungal spores can still remain dormant. Doesn't take long for them to begin to grow when conditions are right. 90° Is the proven temp that Chytrid dies at and the duration is 6 hours. I'm not going to go any further into it since it is starting a little conflict that makes you feel you need to defend your post. Ill just leave it at that.

[Ra]

It has to be a consistent 90 degrees F for 4 days straight to kill the fungus and its spores. The method is to heat the water holding the frog to 91 to 93 degrees, the air has to be that hot as well but its important that the water is as well. A 1% salt solution is added.
Five days at this temp is whats recommended. An adult Horned Frog will survive this, and short term high temperatures are unlikely to result in kidney damage.

Keeping any items used bone dry for six hours will kill the spores, holding them at 95 F will ensure that as well, so you dont have to toss all the items (but why not just toss them any way)

I would use heat treatment in combination with Lamisil. I guess you have to ask yourself if stressed is better than dead.

[GrifTheGreat]

It has to be a consistent 90 degrees F for 4 days straight to kill the fungus and its spores. The method is to heat the water holding the frog to 91 to 93 degrees, the air has to be that hot as well but its important that the water is as well. A 1% salt solution is added.
Five days at this temp is whats recommended. An adult Horned Frog will survive this, and short term high temperatures are unlikely to result in kidney damage.

Keeping any items used bone dry for six hours will kill the spores, holding them at 95 F will ensure that as well, so you dont have to toss all the items (but why not just toss them any way)

I would use heat treatment in combination with Lamisil. I guess you have to ask yourself if stressed is better than dead.

Since stress is the number one killer of captive bred frogs I'd say if that advice was followed it would be dead no matter what. Never use multiple treatments. Especially when they're as stressful as either of these treatments. Most don't survive the heat treatment and plastic releases poisonous fumes when heated. I feel the Lamisil treatment will suffice since the risk doesn't outweigh the alternative risk.

[Namio]

Not true and not worth the risk. Drying plastic is not going to kill it. Spores go into a sort of dormancy period when dry and just because it it stops growing doesn't mean it will die off. Fungal spores can still remain dormant. Doesn't take long for them to begin to grow when conditions are right.

Actually it's true, although you are absolutely right about the resting/dormant stage that most Chytrdiomycetes are capable of. But unlike other members of chytrid fungi, there is no resting stage found in the species Batrachochytrium dendrobatiditis. There are about 127 genera and 1000 species of chytrid fungi, and there's only one species that can parasitize and cause a disease in vertebrates (amphibians). The amphibian chytrid is so unique that a new genus was given to it, and is still without a Family because scientists don't know where to place it, once again due to its uniqueness. All in all, blah blah blah, and so basically, desiccation is a proven effective way of killing the amphibian chytrid.

90° Is the proven temp that Chytrid dies at and the duration is 6 hours.

I never said it's not a proven temp treatment that chytrid dies. We are agreed on this. Not sure why you brought it up. I was simply making a point where any temp above 30C will kill chytrid. Just higher the temp (>30 C), faster it dies. There are a couple of published studies testing different high temps and that's what they learned. Everything I said about chytrid were all based on scientific literature.

[GrifTheGreat]

Actually it's true, although you are absolutely right about the resting/dormant stage that most Chytrdiomycetes are capable of. But unlike other members of chytrid fungi, there is no resting stage found in the species Batrachochytrium dendrobatiditis. There are about 127 genera and 1000 species of chytrid fungi, and there's only one species that can parasitize and cause a disease in vertebrates (amphibians). The amphibian chytrid is so unique that a new genus was given to it, and still without a Family because scientists don't know where to place it, once again due to its uniqueness. All in all, blah blah blah, and so basically, desiccation is a proven effective way of killing the amphibian chytrid.



I never said it's not a proven temp treatment that chytrid dies. We are agreed on this. Not sure why you brought it up. I was simply making a point where any temp above 30C will kill chytrid. Just higher the temp (>30 C), faster it dies. There are a couple of published studies testing different high temps and that's what they learned. Everything I said about chytrid were all based on scientific literature.

I honestly don't know why i brought that up now that i re-read your post. Must have read it wrong . I'm very tired. Just got home from work not long ago. Sorry if it felt like an attack. I watched a really good lecture on Amphibian decline. I may send you the link if i can find it. I believe you'd enjoy it and others as well. It mentioned two parasitic species of Chyrtid. One weaker than the other, but still dangerous nonetheless.

Couldn't get the full video, but its on FORA.tv

[Namio]

I honestly don't know why i brought that up now that i re-read your post. Must have read it wrong . I'm very tired. Just got home from work not long ago. Sorry if it felt like an attack. I watch a really good lecture on Amphibian decline. I may send you the link if i can find it. I believe youd enjoy it and others as well. It mentioned two parasitic species of Chyrtid. One weaker than the other, but still dangerous nonetheless.

Couldn't get the full video, but its on FORA.tv

No worries . I misread others often. Thanks for the recommendation. Let me check out the video on FORA.tv. It seems like a cool website that's perfect for nerds like myself. Lol.