Self Sustaining Vivarium?

[HerpDerp]

I've been doing a lot of research lately on different vivarium set ups for a white's tree frog. I started doing a little bit of reading on a self sustaining set up and would like to get some first hand knowledge before I decide if that's what I want to do. I currently have a temporary set up. It's a 10 gallon tank that will be used as a quarantine tank when I get a new frog and terrarium.

So the plan is to get an exo-terra 18x18x24. I know a lot of people here make false bottoms, but is that completely necessary to do a self sustaining vivarium? I was considering using hydroballs with a barrier and then coco fiber. From what I understand, excess water is drained from the substrate and into the bottom with the hydroballs. Does this need to be siphoned or would a UTH sufficiently evaporate the water?

So if I did something like that I would want to put real plants right into the substrate instead of into pots. So how often does substrate need to be changed in a self sustaining vivarium? I would plan on using cleaner insects such as spring tails. That aspect of the set up is what intrigues me most. Creating a whole eco system would be way cool. Would a UV bulb be necessary for this type of set up?

Any other important info or suggestions would be appreciated. I'm pretty excited to do something like this. It should also be noted that I only work part time so I don't have a ton of money to spend on this so cheaper is better

[ToadPaparazzi]

I recommend using egg crate instead of hydro balls; your reservoir will hold much more water and allow longer intervals between draining. You can also have your tank drilled for a drain.

[deranged chipmunk]

I wouldn't use an under tank heater if you have a water reservoir. Too much risk of cracking the tank. Hot heater+cool water = disaster.

[ToadPaparazzi]

I wouldn't use an under tank heater if you have a water reservoir. Too much risk of cracking the tank. Hot heater+cool water = disaster.

I agree... If you can keep a few inches of water in the reservoir, you can go with a submersible aquarium heater... Leave yourself access to it though.

-Christian

[HerpDerp]

Since I already have a couple UTH's maybe I can just attach it to the side just above the water level? With a larger tank would a low wattage incandescent bulb work? I was using it in my 10 gallon but it was just drying everything out pretty badly and it was getting a bit too warm in there.

Any suggestions or info on cleaner bugs like springtails or wood lice? Like what would work best with a WTF and is it easy to get them to sustain in the vivarium?

[deranged chipmunk]

you can definitely slap an uth on the side of the tank. just make sure it's at least an inch or more above the waterline. and keep in mind, that that will only heat the air inside the tank, not the water. of course, there will be radiant heat spread to the water, however it will not heat the water.
as far as buggies, i know springtails are good as a clean up crew, but make sure you have a running culture going, because the frogs might decide to snack on them

[HerpDerp]

I'm pretty excited to give this a go (hopefully soon). I've found some pretty good layout ideas online and have a pretty good idea of what I want to do. So if I I know I already asked this but how often would I have to change the substrate with a false bottom? Would it be feasible to plant the plants directly in the substrate or should I stick with pots? I also have seen some pretty cool set ups with pots attached higher up for pothos and other vined plants. Is this a complicated process to create something like that?

[deranged chipmunk]

i can't comment on when to change substrate because i have only had my current viv up for a few months. but i am sure it would be a long time before the substrate would need replacing. yes, you can plant directly into the substrate. some people use pots to make things easier. i.e. rearranging plants, maintenance, ect. and if you are doing a foam background, you just set the pots where you want them and foam around them. easy peasy. don't forget some sort of drainage for the pot as well though. a straw works wonders for that

[DonLisk]

Here is a link to creating a false bottom with eggcrate, and the setup was for WTFs.

as for changing out substrate, if it drains properly and never picks up mites, or other unwanted inhabitants, then the substrate may never have to be changed, nut..... WTFs are pretty abusive to a tank and depending on the amount of animals and how often you remove visible waste/dropping will be the deciding factor here.
My RETF tank has not had the substrate changed in almost two years, smells nice, and the plants grow well without need for anything other than routine trimming of overgrowth.

Hope the link helps.
http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...se-bottom.html

[HerpDerp]

That's an awesome guide! I definitely book marked it. How are WTFs abusive to a tank? I only have one right now and he's been pretty gentle on the tank so far so maybe I just haven't noticed? Oh my word, just as I was typing this I think I got an idea of what you meant. I looked up just in time to see him lunge from one end of a the tank to the other to snag a cricket off the pothos and in the process dislodged part of his climbing vine, nearly broke a leaf off the pothos and then splashed water everywhere when he landed in his water dish. And I didn't even know there was a cricket in there! So I guess I'll construct the vivarium keeping that sort of thing in mind :P.

[deranged chipmunk]

Yup. My white's are constantly rearranging their home. Everyday i come home from work, i have to fix something in their tank.....lol but i have to admit, it is awesome to watch them leap after food. Mine will leap the entire length of their tank for food and it's 3 feet long!! Lol

[IrishRonin]

Well I'm with Don on this one, as long as it drains well and you have isopods and/or springtails to do some cleaning you shouldn't have to change the substrate. Between the poop and the insects you should get plenty of fertilization to keep you plants going no problem. By the way i plant directly into my substrate, that way its less likely your plants will get root bound. I use a small false bottoms of hydroballs and as long as you dont over water it the plant roots usually suck up any excess water no problem

[HerpDerp]

So I had an idea for a false bottom. An undergravel filter kit for an aquarium is a good material and some kits come with a pump and the filter tubing. Would this be a good economical idea? I'm thinking I'm going to get the stuff this weekend and get it done so I'm super excited

[deranged chipmunk]

It probably would work, but egg crate is easier to cut to fit and it will drain better than a ugf.

[ligreys]

Hello,

I have gray tree frogs, not white, sorry for butting in on your thread

But i am in the process of setting up a living vivarium as well and have similar questions. I am using an egg crate false bottom with hydroballs under that. Set up a small waterpump to circulate water up to the substrate layer and flow through a pvc tube (little river effect). Im going to top the dirt layer with sphagnum moss and leaf litter.

Trying to make it self sustaining as possible. Do springtails/isopods have a tendency to leave the viv.? Im using an exo terra 12x12x18 and theres plenty of tiny opening, with it being in my room id rather not have loose bugs running around

What does up keep intail? Assuming the dirt layer will be good for a long time so just clean out the leaf litter, moss, and water every few weeks/months depending how much of a mess the frogs make?

Thanks,
Andrew

[HerpDerp]

These are definitely good questions and exactly the same things I'm wondering. The river effect sounds really cool. I haven't decided if I want to bother with any kind of water feature or not. My plan is to just put some airline hosing for fish tanks from the bottom to the surface and then use a connector piece to connect another hose and siphon water out of the bottom when needed. Cheap, easy and minimalist.

[deranged chipmunk]

the bugs shouldn't leave the viv. i have never had any leave mine, but anything is possible i suppose. just be careful when you work inside the tank to make sure you don't get any on your hands or clothing. that's pretty much the only way they will get out since they can't climb glass. if you are doing an egg crate bottom, you don't need the hydroballs underneath. the hydroballs are used to create a drainage layer, and placing them UNDER the egg crate is just a waste of $10. as far as upkeep, clean the poop, change some of the water every couple weeks (make sure you dechlorinate!!) and you're pretty much good.

[ligreys]

Thanks for the advice

Using the LECA mostly to fill some volume so i dont have a mass amount of water as well as provide more surface area for filtration bacteria to attach to? When i placed the order for everything i figured id just tack it on to have just in case. lol

Have the water situation all worked out, been raising 4 tadpoles for about 6 weeks now. (finally starting to bud front legs) they will be transfered to a 5 gallon tank while the viv is under construction. The 5 gallon will then slowly be transformed into a planted aquarium

[deranged chipmunk]

5 gallon is small for a planted tank. going with microfish or shrimp?

[ligreys]

Plan is to go with a few pygmy corys, small school of chili rasbora, and 1-2 otos, shrimp and some micro crabs for clean up crew. From everything ive seen and read on forums it should be within stocking limits as all the fish are very small and should maintain a balance little eco system.