Frog/Toad Intelligence - what do you think?

[findiviglio]

Article: How Toads & Frogs learn to avoid bees & bee mimics. Has anyone observed similar learning abilities (feel free to brag!) Amphibian Learning Abilities

[SkeletalFrog]

In all fairness, classical conditioning (associating an external stimulus with either a reward or pain) is pretty basic - the model system for studying it is a sea slug. Operant conditoning (associating one's own behavior with reward/pain) is slightly more complex, but is still present even in invertebrates.

That said, testing higher-order intelligence in different species is often difficult, especially for species very different from us, so just because we haven't observed it doesn't mean it isn't there. Conversely, however, complex behaviors that seem outwardly intelligent can be produced from little more than a combination of conditioning, memory, instinct, and our own anthropomorphic biases.

[mpmistr]

While I love amphibians I doubt their intellect. They are quite frankly mindless eating machines. =)

[WTF97]

My whites tree frogs are pretty smart.They have learned how to escape their tank at night..and also go back to their aquarium in the morning no problems

[mpmistr]

My whites tree frogs are pretty smart.They have learned how to escape their tank at night..and also go back to their aquarium in the morning no problems

Tree frogs appear to possess bit more intelligent than other amphibians, I would assume because they need higher brain function to operate in a 3D environment unlike other frogs whose world is more flat.

I am partial to african clawed frogs since those are the only amphibians I keep at the moment, while they are not intellectual power houses they DO know me and they do clamor up to the front of their aquarium when they see me.. obviously for food not to say 'hi' though. : )

[UncleChester]

Interesting. I had wondered about bees, and if it takes a learned bad experience to know to avoid them or if there's something instinctive about the warning patter that they know to stay away.

That said, testing higher-order intelligence in different species is often difficult, especially for species very different from us, so just because we haven't observed it doesn't mean it isn't there. Conversely, however, complex behaviors that seem outwardly intelligent can be produced from little more than a combination of conditioning, memory, instinct, and our own anthropomorphic biases.

So very true, especially when you're emotionally attached to the critter.


I'm always impressed at tree frogs navigational abilities. Specifically how they manage to return to their favoured spots no matter how often I move them away, as I often do for the wild ones around here that like to hang out on door frames or window sills and risk an accidental squishing by an inattentive human. I'm not sure a homing ability qualifies as a higher intelligence, but it's still pretty cool.

[findiviglio]

Hi Folks, Thank you. they can seem like eating machines at times - I recall White's Treefrogs that shared an exhibit with Diamond Pythons latching onto dead rats that were being tong fed to the snakes!..but unnatural situation, of course. They surely wouldn't approach a rat-sized mammal in the wild.

Re-entering the terrarium is interesting....some species seem to return to the same hiding spot over time, Ive seen this with a group of Cuban Treefrogs I kept in a huge greenhouse.

African clawed Frogs are very responsive indeed; one of my lifelong favorites. One of mine lived for 20 or so years, and that is not a record! Very interesting to breed as well; perhaps you'll enjoy this article.

Best, Frank

[Sasha]

Interesting. I had wondered about bees, and if it takes a learned bad experience to know to avoid them or if there's something instinctive about the warning patter that they know to stay away.

I think it's a learned bad experience. I tried to feed one of my white's tree frogs a whole red wiggler. She struggled to get the worm out of her bowl and then gave up. A week later I tried again with half a worm on a tong and instead of trying to eat it, she just put her head down. It was as if she remembered what happened the last time.

[findiviglio]

Thanks, Patsy..I've not had a chance to observe any size-related incidents; it would be interesting to see if the frog continues to reject worms over time, please let me know if you have a chance, Best, Frank

[Sasha]

Frank, I have an update. My frog that rejected the worms at first now ate half a worm from the tongs. She acted like a child that was just tricked in to eating brussell sprouts and jumped around the tank with her mouth wide open! She did however manage to swallow the worm and keep it down. So there goes my whole theory, LOL!

[findiviglio]

Frank, I have an update. My frog that rejected the worms at first now ate half a worm from the tongs. She acted like a child that was just tricked in to eating brussell sprouts and jumped around the tank with her mouth wide open! She did however manage to swallow the worm and keep it down. So there goes my whole theory, LOL!

Ha! very good, thanks. Thinking back, I've that most treefrogs (and arboreal lizards) reject earthworms; perhaps just too far away from what typical prey looks like; White's are very adaptable, however, and eworms are a good food item. Easy to gut load, and usually have a decent CA" phosphorus ratio, altho this varies with diet. Let me know if you need info on breeding or anything, Enjoy, Pl keep me posted, Frank

[deranged chipmunk]

i always felt that intelligence was a rather abstract concept. at least, in the way that we, as humans, evaluate it. i think Fin said something very poignant here "White's are very adaptable". so are we mistaking adaptation to one's environment as intelligence? look at it this way, a person loses their home and adapts to living on the streets. does that make them any more or less intelligent? i wouldn't think so. (i know, extreme exaggeration...LOL) i like to think that all living things, whether they have a developed brain or not, are intelligent in one way or another. we also like to use the term intelligent incorrectly sometimes. ever hear someone talk about a K-9 officer and say that that dog is so smart, he can find drugs/bombs/people, but in actuality, it is what the dog was trained to do, he didn't figure it out on his own (which would kind of be what we would call intelligence). sorry, got a little long winded there, a behavior my wife has been trying to reverse for a LONG time....LOL

[mpmistr]

The African Bullfrog - YouTube

Perhaps not a sign of intelligence but WOW who would of thought a frog would show maternal instincts like that? That's just amazing.

[Sunshine]

Wow! That is amazing!!! That video made me smile

[ToadPaparazzi]

The African Bullfrog - YouTube

Perhaps not a sign of intelligence but WOW who would of thought a frog would show maternal instincts like that? That's just amazing.

I think that's very much intelligence!

[SkeletalFrog]

I think that's very much intelligence!

Not really - ants and bees have much more sophisticated care of their young, and you can barely even call that cluster of ganglia in their heads a brain.

Too often, any behavior in common with humans, such as sociality, parenting, or vocal communication, is carelessly ascribed to intelligence simply because the animal is "more like us". In contrast, the predominantly asocial, non-vocal, non-parenting octopus has have shown intelligence eclipsing many mammals and all herps.

[mpmistr]

Not really - ants and bees have much more sophisticated care of their young, and you can barely even call that cluster of ganglia in their heads a brain.

Too often, any behavior in common with humans, such as sociality, parenting, or vocal communication, is carelessly ascribed to intelligence simply because the animal is "more like us". In contrast, the predominantly asocial, non-vocal, non-parenting octopus has have shown intelligence eclipsing many mammals and all herps.

I think you are correct. However that video did surprise me none the less because I really thought Amphibians had little to no paternal instinct and were more likely to eat their young rather than act on behalf of their welfare. Still pretty cool behavior!

[Cronopio]

My whites tree frogs are pretty smart.They have learned how to escape their tank at night..and also go back to their aquarium in the morning no problems

Ugh, I wish mine had! He learned how to escape, and has done so twice -- we had to track him down in the morning and put him up. So now his cage lid is firmly locked, but he is heartbroken -- he pushes, and pushes, and pushes, and then calls us bad names in Frogspeak. Poor Fred!

[ToadPaparazzi]

I really thought Amphibians had little to no paternal instinct and were more likely to eat their young rather than act on behalf of their welfare.

I get to see this happen with most of my frogs at home constantly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTd_Z9a78FU&sns=em

[findiviglio]

Hi all,

Sorry to be so long in getting back, thanks for the interesting feedback. I didn't mean to cause any confusion - learning ability has been shown in most animal classes; some seems more surprising to us because many do not associate learning with, for example, invertebrates. And, in general, as one commenter mentioned, all learning is based on innate instincts and natural behaviors. Complicated natural/instinctive behaviors do not, again as mentioned, indicate intelligence. There are insects that lead young to food, store food for later use, etc. but they are not "figuring this out" or "deciding to do it". As for amphibians, they are capable of learning to adjust to novel, situations. However, they also have some of the most complicated and bizarre parental care strategies known - again, not really an indicator of intelligence. Poison frogs are best known, but many others - Af bullfrogs dig channels to bring water to tadpoles, and attack even lions that investigate their broods, several caeciliens and one frog grow skin that s then fed to tadpoles, and so on.

Of curse, we humans are sometimes compared unfavorably to animals. A female friend once relayed this joke:

"What's the difference between a man and a rat"?

"If you put a rat in a maze and shock it every time it turns left, eventually it will turn right"

Best, Frank