Feeder frogs?

[Teh Frog Whisperer]

I was wondering, what kinds of frogs are there that are cheap and easy to breed as feeders? I'm asking because I was thinking about the time I fed a little bullfrog I found in my backyard to my Budgett frog before I knew about the risks of parasites and stuff, and he absolutely loved it. Naturally, I don't want him to catch any parasites, so what kind of frog can I use as an easy feeder?

[jelkins]

Xenopus would be my suggestion.

[Iratus ranunculus]

Yeah, if you want the skin secretions of Xenopus to paralyze the jaw of your budgetts frog.

Using feeder frogs is a big no-no unless you are keeping an eastern hognose snake or something like that.

[Tony]

Feeder frogs would provide a more natural food source for many predatory frogs, they just have to be treated to minimize the risk of disease transmission. I strongly suspect that specialized frog eaters like Ceratophrys cornuta would do much better in captivity if people fed them appropriately instead of trying to make them eat rodents.

[Teh Frog Whisperer]

What kind of frog would you recommend? Should I try breeding Xenopus spp. like Justin suggested?

[Tony]

I don't keep any frog eaters, but if I did I would just go with whatever is seasonally available, green frogs, pig frogs, bullfrogs, green tree frogs, etc., quarantine as any other new WC and then feed them off when they have a clean bill of health. I don't know the suitability of Xenopus as a feeder, but they would probably be the easiest to culture if they were a good choice.

[Iratus ranunculus]

Feeder frogs would provide a more natural food source for many predatory frogs, they just have to be treated to minimize the risk of disease transmission. I strongly suspect that specialized frog eaters like Ceratophrys cornuta would do much better in captivity if people fed them appropriately instead of trying to make them eat rodents.

I will grant this. However there are massive technical difficulties with actually doing it. Namely, freshwater parasites can encyst and resist freezing, the only method that can really be used to combat parasites in feeders. There is also the problem of breeding amphibians in captivity. Sure, you can do it with hormone treatments, but that is beyond the reach of hobbyists.

I don't keep any frog eaters, but if I did I would just go with whatever is seasonally available, green frogs, pig frogs, bullfrogs, green tree frogs, etc., quarantine as any other new WC and then feed them off when they have a clean bill of health. I don't know the suitability of Xenopus as a feeder, but they would probably be the easiest to culture if they were a good choice.

I will use large texts for this.

XENOPUS MUST NOT BE USED

Their skin produces toxins which cause Oral Dyskinesias in snakes, who knows what said toxins will do to a frog. They are also asymptomatic chytrid carriers. To say nothing of the high parasite risk. Bad Idea.

[Teh Frog Whisperer]

I won't use Xenopus, then. Can I breed green treefrogs? They have them regularly in stock at my local pet store.

[Iratus ranunculus]

I won't use Xenopus, then. Can I breed green treefrogs? They have them regularly in stock at my local pet store.

No one has ever succeeded. They are in stock due to massive commercial collection.

[Tony]

Breeding green tree frogs is very possible, just not commercially viable. It will be a lot cheaper and easier to use WC.

[Teh Frog Whisperer]

What does it mean if it's commercially viable?

[Iratus ranunculus]

Breeding green tree frogs is very possible, just not commercially viable. It will be a lot cheaper and easier to use WC.

And we will just ignore the massive parasite problems.

Who has done it?

[Tony]

And we will just ignore the massive parasite problems.

Are you dense or just trolling? What part of "quarantine and treat just like any other WC" is so hard for you to grasp? Or are you just a PETA kid who doesn't want to feed frogs to frogs because they're cute, and pretend that feeding a specialized frog eater rodents is humane?

[Froog]

I would listen to Iratus Ranunculas! Just saying!

[Tony]

What does it mean if it's commercially viable?

Green tree frogs typically wholesale for $1 or less as WC, the price of breeding and raising them is so much more that a breeder would not be able to compete financially. Same thing with firebelly toads and a few other cheap species, if it retails for under $10 chances are it will never be CB, or only rarely by a hobbyist who does it for fun and doesn't mind losing money.

[pac]

I feed 4 wild caught toads to my female pac at different times but i had them for about two months so yea just quartine them a lit bit of parsites wont your frog yea if people feed wild caught cornutas there natural foods then try rodents then you may be succesful in raising cornutas or you can buy bullfrog tadpoles raise them up feed them to your frogor breed your own bullfrogs

[Iratus ranunculus]

Are you dense or just trolling? What part of "quarantine and treat just like any other WC" is so hard for you to grasp? Or are you just a PETA kid who doesn't want to feed frogs to frogs because they're cute, and pretend that feeding a specialized frog eater rodents is humane?

Neither. Good loaded question though.

I am an amphibian ecologist who has been keeping frogs since I was five. Just because you quarantine an animal does not mean it is parasite free. In fact, medicating wont kill them all, neither will freezing. This is because parasites subjected to stresses encyst, wrapping themselves in a defensive cocoon and shutting down most of their metabolism until it is safe to emerge. Medicating frogs works because it brings the population down, giving the immune system a chance to do its thing in a case where the frog has become symptomatic due to conditions causing immuno-suppression. This is a problem with even otherwise healthy captive frogs like wild-caught budgets frogs, because of increased cortisol levels as a result of simply being contained.

Wild caught green tree frogs will be loaded with parasites, and even if you load them with medication (most of which requires a vet script) you will still give your frogs parasites with every feeding. Worse, these will be parasites the budgett's frog's immune system has no evolutionary history with, or native exposure, but which themselves are really good at parasitizing frogs..

You should not feed them rodents either, for a variety of reasons. Cockroaches, yes, rodents no. But dont listen to me. Instead, people should listen to the person who didn't know that xenopus secrets some nasty skin toxins.

Also: considering my research is on predation ON frogs and tadpoles accusing me of the whole PETA thing is... yeah... shove it.

Green tree frogs typically wholesale for $1 or less as WC, the price of breeding and raising them is so much more that a breeder would not be able to compete financially. Same thing with firebelly toads and a few other cheap species, if it retails for under $10 chances are it will never be CB, or only rarely by a hobbyist who does it for fun and doesn't mind losing money.

Which of course justifies population-destabilizing and horrendously cruel commercial collection and importation. Yes. We should all support that, because everyone else is doing it, and there is no possible way that we could exert pressure within the market to encourage captive breeding.

[Iratus ranunculus]

I feed 4 wild caught toads to my female pac at different times but i had them for about two months so yea just quartine them a lit bit of parsites wont your frog yea if people feed wild caught cornutas there natural foods then try rodents then you may be succesful in raising cornutas or you can buy bullfrog tadpoles raise them up feed them to your frogor breed your own bullfrogs

Yes... sample size of one.

[Teh Frog Whisperer]

Dang! That's pretty impressive! So basically, what you're saying is that I absolutely should not try using "feeder" frogs? If not, is there anything I could use? If I'm not mistaken, Budgett frogs are specialized frog eaters, aren't they?

[pac]

Most big mouthed froggs do but you could try once i fed her american toads she still alive and eating well the toads that i fed her were nice and plum provided her with alot of nutrition